Starting a Shaman

[Hasaan]

Hey everyone,
just about to start an Iksar Shaman, and was curious as to what stats are most important.
For example, is wisdom>sta?
And how should I allocate my starting points?
Was going to go all WIS then the rest into STA

[quido]

Max Stamina first.

[Motec]

reroll ogre

[Estu]

WIS is useful until level 60, at which point you get Torpor and can cannibalize indefinitely. I'd go max STA and then WIS, since STA is (1) harder to raise, and (2) more useful post-Torpor.

[Slave]

1) Roll ogre or innorruk troll
2) max stamina, then other stuff

[Yinikren]

The problem is you're telling the guy to max a low-return stat for gameplay stictly past 60, which requires a fairly hard-to-obtain spell (iirc). What is he going to do for the other 59 levels, where he doesn't have torpor, and now has a lower manapool because he has 17 extra HP from that 25 sta?

[Motec]

The same thing every other shaman does. Never have full HP or mana. Total pool is irrelevent.

[Hasaan]

I plan on achieving the most beneficial stats for raiding
sooo
Are trolls or ogres better for this?
I wanted to play Iksar, but I'm willing to choose the most beneficial build for raiding.
I've only raided with melee characters, so I really don't know much about shamans in raids, other than buffing.

This character is an alt btw, main raiding char is a Paladin, so I'd perfer to have a build that's solo friendly as well as most beneficial for raiding purposes.
Would choosing an iksar be a bad choice?

[Motec]

Ogre hits all criteria by far the best.

And a shaman without jbb, slam and stun immunity is lame

[Hasaan]

Appreciate all the advice, I plan on rolling an ogre, maxing sta, then wis.
Nice to have some direction :]

[Slave]

For raids, a troll will have much more mana available than an ogre. Sorry guys, but you're not tanking in a raid. Troll all the way. And for awesome leveling opportunities, make his deity Innoruuk.

[Alex]

Appreciate all the advice, I plan on rolling an ogre, maxing sta, then wis.
Nice to have some direction :]

You min/maxers are like school in summertime

[Messianic]

You min/maxers are like school in summertime

No class.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1f7loZbcoRQ/S87yFaaAw6I/AAAAAAAACjE/X9EdQjbo3kY/s400/fatalbert.jpg

[Kryptyde]

Ogre is a mistake for raiding; the troll or iksar innate regen will be far more useful than bash protection.

Also max mana is useful for longer fights.

[Orruar]

Stun immunity is worthless except in some really pointless situations, like when trying to ds tank/kill 10 green cons at once. Even while normal soloing, slowed mobs bash once every 32 seconds, and miss half the time anyway. As you say you are looking mostly to raid, getting bashed isn't a concern at all. If you're looking simply to max hp, ogre is the way to go as they have higher starting STA. However, you'll likely see better performance out of a troll, as the extra regen is = flowing thought 5 or thereabouts. This is probably more useful than the 39 hp you gain from an ogre. Don't go iksar, their starting STA is really low. And if you want to be all around awesome, go barb.

[nymphloa]

Appreciate all the advice, I plan on rolling an ogre, maxing sta, then wis.
Nice to have some direction :]

Ooo mate there is nothing like being an individual huh :p
I was the same man, I was peer pressured into remaking my Warrior all them years ago! to an Ogre.

But this time I am Gnoming it up baby! yeah!

I would have respected you more if you stuck at the Iksar but hey! watch this bro it may help!

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150236162120433

[soup]

Stun immunity is very nice. I miss that on my barb a HELL of a lot more than some extra regen.

Also, maxing STA for a shammy is overrated. The HP returns on stam are very very small, and since if you're gearing yourself properly (HP, HP, and HP) you wont be anywhere near the WIS softcap anyway. Saying "WIS is easier to max" is a misleading statement since your goal as a shaman is to gear for HP, not wis/mana.

HP>>>>>>WIS/MANA>STA

[bakkily]

depends what you want, i first played a barb shaman, good hp/str-god though i wish i didnt really make a iksar shaman sort of

only reason, atm only raid gear i can get atm, is some stuff from sky, or kunark, what even in kunark i have no clue

but the hp regen on my iksar is kick ass, though if you plan on doing end content, raids ect, and want gear, go with any of the original races

[Motec]

No 60 shaman cares if they have innate regen or not. This is fact. Past level 50
Every non ogre 60 shaman that cops a bash and loses 200-300 mana in the process (from losing HP from being hit another round).
Every non ogre 60 shaman that gets a slow resist and eats a bash, bla bla bla.

Those who say it is irrelevent, have not played both or are ignorant to their surroundings. The solo potential is huge. Even channeling JBB without being bashed makes up for not having regen. Noone says regen is bad, just that it is inferior to other racials in the high end kunark/velious game.

[Troy]

How likely is it that anyone making a thread like this is going to become a 60 shaman?

Sure make an ogre if you're one of the "the game starts at level 60" people. Otherwise make whatever you want.

[bakkily]

im not a fan of any thing instant, there has to be the adventure, the journey from beginning to where it keeps on going, no end, though everquest is a ever going quest for some people,

but being one in any top guild, and getting 60, best gear you can get, seeing everything, there is a end in a way, and also not, due to vp will be out at some time, and the other fun dungeons, yea if you want to solo much easier, iksars are good for that, but i'd say stay away from the scales, fun race, have enjoyed lvling 1-51 in only/mostly kunark

but i play this game much diffrent then others, i figured back in jan 2010 to like may, i lvld 1-50 and saw all the old world stuff, and just helped others

and so i thought it'd be cool to play a iksar, lvling only in kunark was fun, but im not fond of the race, even with scales my guy's a little brittle

[neverquest]

Rawrriowars are better.

[Nagash]

Get your wis to a good level first (I'd say 200 but that's just me), then work on your hp. Several reasons to that (in no specific order):

- Sta is great but the return you have is fairly low (in term of hp / mana), it usually pays off to invest in straight hp gear unless you have access to top gear

- HP is important as you convert it to mana (cani) and convert mana to HP (heal)

- The 2 points before might lead you to think that your mana pool is not important (hence HP > mana). This is true to a certain extent: when you are in a "Oh shit" situation, the larger your mana pool, the more flexibility (read ease to survive) you have: instead of spending time to cani your hp down to try to keep things under control, you spend your time actually sorting things out (killing mobs, rooting them, healing your team mates...)

Coming to the race, if you're a min-maxer you only have 2 choices:
- Troll (improved regen + access to JBB)
- Ogre (fromtal stun immunity will prevent some spell to be interrupted when you get beaten on)

If you're not, go with the look (you'll be looking at that character's ass for long hours, take something pleasant to your eyes).

Nagash

[mistersuits]

What do Iksar Shaman wear for boots since they can't equip GEBs? And how about helmet options too?

[Mardur]

Ogre is a mistake for raiding
lol

Stun immunity is worthless except in some really pointless situations
lol

[greatdane]

Troll might be a bit better for leveling because the regen really helps a lot. It's somewhat countered by the added exp penalty, but it's not that much more than ogre anyway. For anything that doesn't take grinding sustainability into account (raids, hard solo fights, max-level gameplay etc.) ogre is better. Iksar can't wear a bunch of items that you'll want to use in the leveling process, especially in the lower levels where your spells suck utter ass. You'll likely have to melee your way to 24 at least, unless you do all those levels sitting on your ass in a group. Meleeing to 24 without Totemic and Jaundiced gear can be tough. Iksar also lack slam and the high physical stats that come in handy for a shaman, as well as the hugely useful JBB.

[greatdane]

Get your wis to a good level first (I'd say 200 but that's just me), then work on your hp. Several reasons to that (in no specific order):

- Sta is great but the return you have is fairly low (in term of hp / mana), it usually pays off to invest in straight hp gear unless you have access to top gear

- HP is important as you convert it to mana (cani) and convert mana to HP (heal)

- The 2 points before might lead you to think that your mana pool is not important (hence HP > mana). This is true to a certain extent: when you are in a "Oh shit" situation, the larger your mana pool, the more flexibility (read ease to survive) you have: instead of spending time to cani your hp down to try to keep things under control, you spend your time actually sorting things out (killing mobs, rooting them, healing your team mates...)

No, the reason mana pool is almost useless is because you're almost never at full mana when doing anything that matters. If you are, the content is so easy that it wouldn't make a difference anyway whether you have 150 or 200 wisdom. This is true for almost all classes, although some classes just haven't really got much else to focus on, like wizards and druids. Some classes benefit a bit more from mana on raid mobs because that's where you actually do start out with a full mana pool and have time to spend it all. Shamans and necros are the biggest exception to this because their HP can be directly converted to mana, and thus extra HP allows you to not only survive better but also manage your mana more safely. You also don't have that many jobs during a raid fight as a shaman, it's not like malo+slow takes an entire mana pool. In addition, shamans tend to go for AC because slow is such a huge aggro spell and because they alone among the caster classes can actually take a beating if they gear for it, and may often have to because they lack any crowd control besides root. So does a magician, but he can't really gear for AC with any kind of meaningful result. A shaman can, so he should. Having 900AC 2000HP 2000M will help you much more than having 600AC 1500HP 3000M. You can usually tell a smart shaman by whether he uses an SBS or a PKT, for instance.

[Juugox2]

im rolling barb because im baller