Multi-classing? EQ Legends - What to try?

[Botten]

I am very excited about the prospects of a mishmash of different class abilities.

What 3 classes would even be best?

A mix of the holy trinity?
Warrior, Enchanter, Cleric for soloing?

Enchanter, Cleric, Druid for:
Pet, Complete Heal + Rez and ports, snares and Damage Shield?

I would even like a Bard, Cleric and Wizard for as a fast as possible traveling rezzer.

Monk, Shaman, Bard for safe pulls, haste+buffs+slow+heals and max haste with bard.

kjs86z2, Jamjam, DeathsSilkyMist, Loramin and others have extensive knowledge on game mechanics - I am sure they already have a race and multiclass idea in mind.

I wonder if EQ Legends will remove some of the more powerful abilities from a secondary and ternary class combos?

It should be great!

[Swish]

I'm hoping there isn't a solid meta or "S-Tier" trio that gets too strong because half of the fun with THJ was seeing different combos excel.

Hopefully also there's fun things like hardcore, the option to see what you can achieve with a 2-class combo and things like that to keep EQL interesting beyond that first blitz to max level/AAs.

[Evia]

This is easily the best part of the concept of EQ Legends/THJ. I have a lot of fun brainstorming different ideas of a good combination of classes.

Rn, my plan is to try a Bard/Rogue/Monk. The idea here is that I can fear kite solo, or be excellent support/dps/puller for a group. I think monk epic might clash with bard songs tho...so I've considered necro or sk over monk....i mainly like having FD in my toolkit. Monk or SK would help with being squishy tho...

[Mortdecai99]

I feel like there's no point in doing anything besides monk/enchanter/cleric

[Ciderpress]

Is it possible to do ranger/ranger/ranger?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

A triple multiclass does open up some interesting options, and it also imposes some interesting limitations. This post assumes Legends will be similar to P99 in terms of how everything works. If charm end up being weaker on Legends, for exmaple, that could change the analysis.

As a limitation example, Complete Healing has a 10 second cast. You need to be sure you can land CH solo if you want to multiclass Cleric for that purpose. In a traditional group, you would normally have a tank distracting the mob, so CH's are trivial to land. CH will be tough to land when fighting summoning mobs, unless you have a beefy pet like a charmed pet tanking instead. These things need to be thought through when tailoring your classes for the content you want to solo.

Gear plays another major factor in decisions. For example, an Enchanter + Cleric combo could use Manna Robe + CH for cannibalize. This would make Manna robes a LOT more expensive, so that may be a limitation you would want to consider when deciding between Cleric or Shaman for your cannibalizing needs. Every high powered mana using combo will probably want to cannibalize somehow for the fastest mana recovery times.

I feel like there's no point in doing anything besides monk/enchanter/cleric

If your primary playstyle is charming a big mob, CHing it, and flopping bad scenarios, then SK would probably be better than Monk. SK's have 3 different FD's, and are still quite tanky. Death Peace has an increased success rate too for FD. You probably wouldn't want to be DPSing along-side your hasted charmed pet, as a charm break would be on you almost immediately. SK Epic would also be better than Monk Epic, as Enchanters can haste themselves with better haste anyway.

[Vexenu]

It really depends on how they implement the mechanics of controlling three classes at the same time (i.e. if you are a Warrior/Cleric/Enchanter, can you auto-attack at the same time you're casting a CH and controlling your pet? If you're a Bard, can you keep songs going while casting other spells and meleeing?). It will also matter a great deal what class features from beyond the Classic timeline of P1999 are included. AAs alone are completely game-changing, for example, and hugely affect class capabilities.

So basically, unless you have inside info, I think it's too early to tell. I just hope the game maintains more of a slower pace. I never played THJ, but from the gameplay videos I've seen it looks straight up wacky to me. Basically just running around facerolling everything. You might as well just play an ARPG if you're into that sort of thing, IMO.

For me, at least, the appeal of EQ Legends is less about theorycrafting some OP build to faceroll the game with, and more about making the game more solo and casual friendly, and essentially streamlining the process of 3-boxing by combining all three classes into the same character.

[Duik]

New bard song. Split Personality: divides the character into seperate entities for 18 secs to allow CH or charm breaks etc.

Chanter may also gain this ability. Schitzophrenia also a good name for spell.

Upon merge, temp disorientation. I dunmo.

[Botten]

Does the new tank for raids become a warrior / monk (for HP / Max avoidance) with Paladin for Lay on Hands + aggro stuns?

[OriginalContentGuy]

No I'm busy.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Does the new tank for raids become a warrior / monk (for HP / Max avoidance) with Paladin for Lay on Hands + aggro stuns?

That would probably be the tankiest option. Don't forget self SoulFire clicks in emergencies. This does assume AA's don't change this somehow.

I think Warrior/Monk/Rogue would be the ideal raid tank though. This is because you can instantly swap from being a top DPS to being the next main tank if the current one dies. You could have like 20 of these players in your guild, and you'd always have enough tanks and DPS simultaneously.

Just imagine how much DPS you're doing when you are swapping between Abashi's and Rogue Epic for Backstabs.

[Evia]

What about Paladin/Enchanter/Monk for ultimate dungeon group tank?

[Swish]

I feel like I'm making a dozen characters before I settle on a combo I like.

[Khellendros]

Necro, Wizard, Shaman-- Dot, Blast, Lich, cannibalize, Life drain/tap, rinse repeat.

[grimthule]

I'm so excited to try this build out. I even made a video about it!
EQ Legends: Solo Raid Tank Necro?!
(https://youtu.be/5uPGq4dEj8w)

I'm also planning on doing some of the builds below.
I've been obsessed with thinking up builds, lol.

Halfling Ranger, Beast Lord, Shaman
Erudite Monk, Cleric, Enchanter
Dark Elf - Enchanter, Paladin, Druid

[Botten]

Necro, Wizard, Shaman-- Dot, Blast, Lich, cannibalize, Life drain/tap, rinse repeat.

Stacking Vexing Mordinia and Torpor could be pretty powerful.

While Lich + Canni dancing

Then spamming Jyll's Zephyr of Ice and Jyll's Wave of Heat and Jyll's Static Pulse could be interesting. Mix in some Necro ... Defluxes

Plus pet(s) damage.

I could see it.

[BradZax]

On p99 Monk/War/Shm would probably be pretty dope.

THJ was so different that my traditional theory crafting went out the window. Combing skills from AAs with other class AAs was the real bread & butter.

I dont think any of the skills in classic would really compound the same way.

So i feel like it'd be more traditional mechanic combos would be ideal.

like what could trio best, would probubly three class best here.

AOE slow, torp, monk dps and warrior armor and weapons would probably be pretty OP

Can rogue backstab while facing their target on p99? That was the thing that made them good on THJ.

But the ultimate combo by the end of that server was Pal War Mnk, combinging shield damage bonus, with warrior clickable AA damage bonuses, and Monk something that i forget.

[BradZax]

I'm so excited to try this build out. I even made a video about it!
EQ Legends: Solo Raid Tank Necro?!
(https://youtu.be/5uPGq4dEj8w)

I'm also planning on doing some of the builds below.
I've been obsessed with thinking up builds, lol.

Halfling Ranger, Beast Lord, Shaman
Erudite Monk, Cleric, Enchanter
Dark Elf - Enchanter, Paladin, Druid

Been watching you theory craft since your first video! Fun stuff! :o

[WarpathEQ]

On p99 Monk/War/Shm would probably be pretty dope.

THJ was so different that my traditional theory crafting went out the window. Combing skills from AAs with other class AAs was the real bread & butter.

I dont think any of the skills in classic would really compound the same way.

So i feel like it'd be more traditional mechanic combos would be ideal.

like what could trio best, would probubly three class best here.

AOE slow, torp, monk dps and warrior armor and weapons would probably be pretty OP

Can rogue backstab while facing their target on p99? That was the thing that made them good on THJ.

But the ultimate combo by the end of that server was Pal War Mnk, combinging shield damage bonus, with warrior clickable AA damage bonuses, and Monk something that i forget.

This

If EQL works similar to THJ than it seems all the THJ folks are aligned in that what we think about class strengths and weaknesses likely mean nothing and that all the power comes from what AAs are available and how those AAs create exponential power accross classes. This is where 99% of the power comes from based on feedback from THJ. Obviously EQL could be different...we will see.

[Skarne]

im gonna go bard / mnk / rog

[Anonymous]

wiz /dru / brd <Dial a Port>

[Anonymous]

rog / enc / shm

[BradZax]

wiz /dru / brd <Dial a Port>

https://i.imgur.com/BzoejYb.png

[jolanar]

I wish there was just classic EQ with multiclassing instead of whatever abomination we are getting.

[Swish]

I wish there was just classic EQ with multiclassing instead of whatever abomination we are getting.

https://zam.zamimg.com/images/1/1/11c4169b176689b27148abc049a6213c.jpg

It's coming, they won't be able to resist themselves...

[thoradinDaDorf]

https://zam.zamimg.com/images/1/1/11c4169b176689b27148abc049a6213c.jpg

It's coming, they won't be able to resist themselves...

what on EARTH

[Vexenu]

From watching the streams, one of the biggest changes that is glossed over is the out-of-combat health/mana/stamina regen. It looks as if your character will regen 4% of each per tick, so with just one minute of downtime you regen a full 40% of each. And since you don't have to sit to med, your "downtime" can be running around looking for other mobs. This has huge implications, as it turns a lot of the classic EQ XPing meta on its head.

Traditionally, XPing is all about prioritizing efficiency over a long session to get more kills per hour. Mana and health regen were always the bottleneck of how many mobs you could kill, and thus how much XP you could get. So spells like Lich, Clarity, Chloro were very powerful, along with Bard regen songs, and items like the Fungi Tunic. But when you have massive out-of-combat health/mana regen, those things are much less impactful. Instead, what matters a lot more is in-combat burst damage. If you can kill mobs very quickly, you can then resume your enhanced out-of-combat regen before doing it again. For this reason I think Mages will be one of the strongest classes, due to their unique combination of burst and sustained DPS. Wizards I also expect will be considerably better than in classic (read: actually viable for XP outside of quadding), especially if they give them some sort of special nuking stance, which seems likely.

It also looks like the difficulty of the mobs is much, much easier than classic EQ, even on the highest difficulty setting. The devs were running around Befallen at level 5-10 and easily killing mobs 5+ levels higher than them in newbie gear. It really seems like they are going for a very "inclusive" experience in this regard, meaning that you can play just about any class combination and find success. There won't be much of a need to min/max unless you want to solo on the highest difficulty level. Even then, it doesn't seem like it will be as difficult as P99 solo. For example, I think a lot of people are going to roll Enchanters thinking that charm will be necessary, but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. In fact, it will probably end up being more trouble than it's worth in most cases.

Also, with no XP loss on death and respawning at the zone entrance, death itself loses almost all of its sting. This seriously devalues the entire Feign Death spell/ability, which is another huge change from classic. Pulling also seems much less important, and most people will probably be crawling through dungeons rather than camping certain areas.

It doesn't look like an ideal class meta for grouping/raiding will even develop, simply because there doesn't seem to be much of a need for it. Maybe the raiding will be substantially more difficult (I hope so), but from what I've seen, even on level 4 difficulty, a four-man group won't have much trouble unless they start playing extremely recklessly.

Overall it's clear that this is going to be a VERY different game from classic EQ. It's much more casual-focused and emphasizing fun and QoL over hardcore challenge. For this reason I don't think it's even worth trying to come up with a min/max class combo. You're literally better off just playing whatever you think will be the most fun, because the game simply doesn't appear to be difficult enough to justify min/maxing. Oh, and the loot system they have in place completely negates farming items, so there is zero incentive to roll a traditional "power" combo (i.e. ENC/CLR/MAG or MNK/SHM/ENC, etc...) thinking that this will allow you to farm difficult camps. Items are going to be extremely cheap because they will be very easy to acquire. This also means there is very little incentive to even farm plat. This really looks like a version of EQ that is heavily focused on encouraging solo and small group dungeon play for most of the leveling experience, where the player will gain XP while personally looting most of his own gear.

[Rumham]

You can’t multiclass getting killed to a system freeze and message someone in zone to ask for anyone with cleric sbd they are just like oh I’ll log on my epic cleric you messaged the right guy and what was a run from FV to HHK becomes a fulll xp friendship won’t even take your plat Rez. That’s why I’ll never play EQL. Outside of that it will also be filled with the plague that is live…. Bot and RMT unchecked. Sounds like you are set up to multiclass a travel toilet a foot pump sink and no way to dry your hands. Enjoy the pink eye you call EQL

[Duik]

You can’t multiclass getting killed to a system freeze and message someone in zone to ask for anyone with cleric sbd they are just like oh I’ll log on my epic cleric you messaged the right guy and what was a run from FV to HHK becomes a fulll xp friendship won’t even take your plat Rez. That’s why I’ll never play EQL. Outside of that it will also be filled with the plague that is live…. Bot and RMT unchecked. Sounds like you are set up to multiclass a travel toilet a foot pump sink and no way to dry your hands. Enjoy the pink eye you call EQL

Think of EQ:L as a cocktail.bar, mix any 3 drinks and you may experience something.
However mixing 3 bad classes wont give you a headache or a hangover.
3 miss matched aloholic bevvies may have side affects.

Alcohol.

[Knuckle]

I think there are probably two types of builds that would make the most sense for the highest difficulty solo raid content, and that's what I am focusing my theory crafting on at the moment.

First and foremost, I understand this is a HIGHLY custom version of the game where class balance/power is significantly different, but since I am operating off pure hypothetical and the basic info I've seen in videos, I will first audit out classes that I feel will not fit into any "highest difficulty build".

1.Druid. This is the easiest class cut for me, as anything they can do, other classes perform better. I understand there are going to be some changes to make them more viable, but I would rate them as "unessential" at this time. Even their general utility is limited since there are now 4 SoW classes and additional methods of world travel to diminish teleports value, especially since they can be swapped to as a secondary teleport loadout.

2. Ranger. I know bows are getting significant beneficial changes including melee range. I don't know enough about their changes to say, I am definitely using this class in classic for the hardest content. Exception might be the t-staff bow in plane of sky, if its truly unresistable by any npc target, this may move them into usable tier for hardest content.

This reduces the 560 possible class combinations down to 364!

This is still a pretty large list, the next criteria for hardest content in my theory crafting is the ability to SLOW the mob. This means one of the classes in each class combination Must include: Shaman, Beastlord, Enchanter, Rogue, Bard.
Running a quick table array IF statement in excel resolves this problem for us.

This reduces the combinations down to 280.

We run the same type of formula to verify that there is a tank class of Paladin/Sk/War.

This reduces the combinations down to 135.

We want to ensure there is a healer and a tank class in every possibility.
A SUM formula with COUNTIF resolves this to ensure SK/PAL/War = exactly 1 for each three class combination.

This reduces the combinations down to 120.

We use a similar formula to ensure there is a cleric or shaman included for healing.
This brings our possible combinations down to 42!

We are finally down to the nitty gritty, we have met the criteria of having exactly one tank class, one form of slow, and one form of significant healing.
Some final audits are to eliminate redundancy in classes where the overlap may be less desirable. So I will be eliminating: Shadow knight + Necromancer / Paladin + Cleric / Shaman + Beastlord.
This brings us down to 33 viable "Max Raid Difficulty Solo" Specs down from the original 560 combinations.

Of these 33 Specs, I listed 22 as "Top Tier" For Solo max difficulty raid content, but included a tier list for all:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/708040826210746371/1504536907860803634/bored_eq_excel.png?ex=6a0758af&is=6a06072f&hm=d4a3d5b41c31ee5e3116d9bc74779323079e12bb00d9d17 6326c91a822ce667e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1485&height=633

All that being said, I'll probably do something like Beast Lord/Berserker/Bard just to play some new classes I've rarely explored, and level up a raid combo later.
I imagine many combinations I eliminated will potentially be better than any remaining class combo I listed, I imagine the class changes/world balancing will wildly change results.
Also just because I got bored of the exercise, I did not explore the pet stacking dynamic as I do not know how pet aggro and chain summoning will work yet.

Edit: I was referring to mage pet as being tied for strongest, but not with enchanter pet which charmed pets would be the strongest, but with summoned pets I imagine DPS optimized is closely matched with beastlord pets.

[Knuckle]

From watching the streams, one of the biggest changes that is glossed over is the out-of-combat health/mana/stamina regen. It looks as if your character will regen 4% of each per tick, so with just one minute of downtime you regen a full 40% of each. And since you don't have to sit to med, your "downtime" can be running around looking for other mobs. This has huge implications, as it turns a lot of the classic EQ XPing meta on its head.

Traditionally, XPing is all about prioritizing efficiency over a long session to get more kills per hour. Mana and health regen were always the bottleneck of how many mobs you could kill, and thus how much XP you could get. So spells like Lich, Clarity, Chloro were very powerful, along with Bard regen songs, and items like the Fungi Tunic. But when you have massive out-of-combat health/mana regen, those things are much less impactful. Instead, what matters a lot more is in-combat burst damage. If you can kill mobs very quickly, you can then resume your enhanced out-of-combat regen before doing it again. For this reason I think Mages will be one of the strongest classes, due to their unique combination of burst and sustained DPS. Wizards I also expect will be considerably better than in classic (read: actually viable for XP outside of quadding), especially if they give them some sort of special nuking stance, which seems likely.

It also looks like the difficulty of the mobs is much, much easier than classic EQ, even on the highest difficulty setting. The devs were running around Befallen at level 5-10 and easily killing mobs 5+ levels higher than them in newbie gear. It really seems like they are going for a very "inclusive" experience in this regard, meaning that you can play just about any class combination and find success. There won't be much of a need to min/max unless you want to solo on the highest difficulty level. Even then, it doesn't seem like it will be as difficult as P99 solo. For example, I think a lot of people are going to roll Enchanters thinking that charm will be necessary, but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. In fact, it will probably end up being more trouble than it's worth in most cases.

Also, with no XP loss on death and respawning at the zone entrance, death itself loses almost all of its sting. This seriously devalues the entire Feign Death spell/ability, which is another huge change from classic. Pulling also seems much less important, and most people will probably be crawling through dungeons rather than camping certain areas.

It doesn't look like an ideal class meta for grouping/raiding will even develop, simply because there doesn't seem to be much of a need for it. Maybe the raiding will be substantially more difficult (I hope so), but from what I've seen, even on level 4 difficulty, a four-man group won't have much trouble unless they start playing extremely recklessly.

Overall it's clear that this is going to be a VERY different game from classic EQ. It's much more casual-focused and emphasizing fun and QoL over hardcore challenge. For this reason I don't think it's even worth trying to come up with a min/max class combo. You're literally better off just playing whatever you think will be the most fun, because the game simply doesn't appear to be difficult enough to justify min/maxing. Oh, and the loot system they have in place completely negates farming items, so there is zero incentive to roll a traditional "power" combo (i.e. ENC/CLR/MAG or MNK/SHM/ENC, etc...) thinking that this will allow you to farm difficult camps. Items are going to be extremely cheap because they will be very easy to acquire. This also means there is very little incentive to even farm plat. This really looks like a version of EQ that is heavily focused on encouraging solo and small group dungeon play for most of the leveling experience, where the player will gain XP while personally looting most of his own gear.

Yes, it is literally that. Group up with your homies and roll through some dungeons. Or do it solo. Looks pretty chill either way. If it was just classic eq again with multiple classes people would bitch forever about how unfair certain class combos are. They are doing a lot of fun stuff with this so I am definitely checking it out. I like the new kerran/froglok races and how the textures are implemented. Iksars get a starting city near north ro. Auto song twisting, extra spell gems AAs. Some classes we havent seen in a classic environment. Actual robe graphics for every race.
Can tell lots of attention to detail etc, but everyone is expecting Classic EQ when we already have 4 flavors of that.

[Vexenu]

We are finally down to the nitty gritty, we have met the criteria of having exactly one tank class, one form of slow, and one form of significant healing.
Some final audits are to eliminate redundancy in classes where the overlap may be less desirable. So I will be eliminating: Shadow knight + Necromancer / Paladin + Cleric / Shaman + Beastlord.
This brings us down to 33 viable "Max Raid Difficulty Solo" Specs down from the original 560 combinations.

Of these 33 Specs, I listed 22 as "Top Tier" For Solo max difficulty raid content, but included a tier list for all:

I agree with your general analysis here, especially in terms of needing to balance a build between DPS/tanking/heals/slow. But the intricacies of the unique EQL systems will probably throw a wrench in leaning too heavily on the classic EQ meta for accurate theorycrafting. For example, the stance system is hugely impactful. WAR, SK and PAL get a defensive stance that reduces incoming damage 50%, with the reduced damage instead drawing down endurance on a 1:1 basis. Rogues, Monks, Rangers, Bards and Beastlords get Evasive stance, which avoids 95% of attacks entirely, with the avoided damage drawing down endurance at a 1:2 basis.

So basically this means that your tanks benefit from extremely high AC paired with defensive stance + heals, while your DPS classes benefit more from slow + burst DPS. Defensive stance gives more sustain, while evasive is shorter lived but allows you to avoid damage almost entirely for its duration. Basically what I'm getting at is that if your burst DPS is high enough, you probably don't even need a traditional tank class in your build. For example, something like CLR/ROG/BRD should be very viable. Cleric AC/HP buffs make the Rogue fairly sturdy as a tank, heals give sustain, Rogue DPS is through the roof with Bard self-haste, Bard is also slowing to make tanking easier. Cleric buffs + bard songs pump your resists to insane levels for raid kills. I've also considered BRD/SHM/WIZ. Slow/Malo the mob, pop evasive stance, and start dropping nukes. Slow+Evasive means you aren't even taking damage, so as long as your mana pool is deep enough you should be able to kill almost anything very quickly.

I think you're also right about Druids being very "meh" in EQL. I would also throw Necros into that camp, as well. Warriors also seem less attractive due to PAL and SK bringing defensive stance in addition to utility. And Monks go down a notch since FD is much less useful in a meta featuring instancing, respawn at zone-in, and no XP loss on death. And while I expect that Enchanters will still be extremely powerful, I think their power will decline substantially relative to other classes. Due to the much faster paced nature of the game compared to classic EQ (and the very high out-of-combat health/mana regen), damage-over-time spells and any sort of "efficiency killing" strategies (i.e. root rotting, fear kiting, quad kiting, reverse charming) will be much less appealing. The EQL meta seems to be about killing very quickly. Your build needs to combine burst DPS and just enough sustain (some combination of tanking/avoidance, heals, and slow) to get through fights. But you really don't gain anything by fighting "efficiently" in the classic EQ since, because you regen so much out of combat. So in this regard, the ideal build is very heavy on DPS and has only "just enough" defense to survive tough fights.

I'm also interested to play around with Beastlords. They seem very strong, and I think will be especially good if paired with an SK/PAL. The BST has dual wield and block, the tanks bring double attack and parry. So combined you have an extremely sturdy quadding tank with a nasty pet. Throw in a Bard or Cleric third wheel and you're off to the races. I'm a bit torn between starting with that build, or doing CLR/MAG/RNG, which I think will be very solid 1-50 and scale well into Kunark with the Ranger and Mage epics (Ranger self-hasting with Cloak, slowing with Epic, flexibility of fighting in melee or using bow, combined with Mage Epic pet + Cleric heals/buffs? Yeah, that's gg).

Another factor to consider is the item upgrade system and the ANY slots. Given that shields are the most stat-heavy items in the game, they are an obvious choice for the ANY slots. Something like the Shield of Stalwart Seas will be absurdly powerful when upgraded and stuffed in the ANY slot. Get that to +7 or above and you're potentially looking at something absurd like 80AC and +50 STR/STA from a single item. I believe they've said that stat caps have been raised to something like 500, so there's definitely a lot of room to run with upgrading items.

Ultimately, while this sort of theorycrafting is fun, from what I've heard it seems like almost any reasonable build will be solo-raid viable on anything but the highest difficulty. So I really think that just playing a combination of classes you find enjoyable/cool-looking is the actual EQL meta.

[kjs86z2]

what do berserkers do

[Knuckle]

I agree with your general analysis here, especially in terms of needing to balance a build between DPS/tanking/heals/slow. But the intricacies of the unique EQL systems will probably throw a wrench in leaning too heavily on the classic EQ meta for accurate theorycrafting. For example, the stance system is hugely impactful. WAR, SK and PAL get a defensive stance that reduces incoming damage 50%, with the reduced damage instead drawing down endurance on a 1:1 basis. Rogues, Monks, Rangers, Bards and Beastlords get Evasive stance, which avoids 95% of attacks entirely, with the avoided damage drawing down endurance at a 1:2 basis.

So basically this means that your tanks benefit from extremely high AC paired with defensive stance + heals, while your DPS classes benefit more from slow + burst DPS. Defensive stance gives more sustain, while evasive is shorter lived but allows you to avoid damage almost entirely for its duration. Basically what I'm getting at is that if your burst DPS is high enough, you probably don't even need a traditional tank class in your build. For example, something like CLR/ROG/BRD should be very viable. Cleric AC/HP buffs make the Rogue fairly sturdy as a tank, heals give sustain, Rogue DPS is through the roof with Bard self-haste, Bard is also slowing to make tanking easier. Cleric buffs + bard songs pump your resists to insane levels for raid kills. I've also considered BRD/SHM/WIZ. Slow/Malo the mob, pop evasive stance, and start dropping nukes. Slow+Evasive means you aren't even taking damage, so as long as your mana pool is deep enough you should be able to kill almost anything very quickly.

I think you're also right about Druids being very "meh" in EQL. I would also throw Necros into that camp, as well. Warriors also seem less attractive due to PAL and SK bringing defensive stance in addition to utility. And Monks go down a notch since FD is much less useful in a meta featuring instancing, respawn at zone-in, and no XP loss on death. And while I expect that Enchanters will still be extremely powerful, I think their power will decline substantially relative to other classes. Due to the much faster paced nature of the game compared to classic EQ (and the very high out-of-combat health/mana regen), damage-over-time spells and any sort of "efficiency killing" strategies (i.e. root rotting, fear kiting, quad kiting, reverse charming) will be much less appealing. The EQL meta seems to be about killing very quickly. Your build needs to combine burst DPS and just enough sustain (some combination of tanking/avoidance, heals, and slow) to get through fights. But you really don't gain anything by fighting "efficiently" in the classic EQ since, because you regen so much out of combat. So in this regard, the ideal build is very heavy on DPS and has only "just enough" defense to survive tough fights.

I'm also interested to play around with Beastlords. They seem very strong, and I think will be especially good if paired with an SK/PAL. The BST has dual wield and block, the tanks bring double attack and parry. So combined you have an extremely sturdy quadding tank with a nasty pet. Throw in a Bard or Cleric third wheel and you're off to the races. I'm a bit torn between starting with that build, or doing CLR/MAG/RNG, which I think will be very solid 1-50 and scale well into Kunark with the Ranger and Mage epics (Ranger self-hasting with Cloak, slowing with Epic, flexibility of fighting in melee or using bow, combined with Mage Epic pet + Cleric heals/buffs? Yeah, that's gg).

Another factor to consider is the item upgrade system and the ANY slots. Given that shields are the most stat-heavy items in the game, they are an obvious choice for the ANY slots. Something like the Shield of Stalwart Seas will be absurdly powerful when upgraded and stuffed in the ANY slot. Get that to +7 or above and you're potentially looking at something absurd like 80AC and +50 STR/STA from a single item. I believe they've said that stat caps have been raised to something like 500, so there's definitely a lot of room to run with upgrading items.

Ultimately, while this sort of theorycrafting is fun, from what I've heard it seems like almost any reasonable build will be solo-raid viable on anything but the highest difficulty. So I really think that just playing a combination of classes you find enjoyable/cool-looking is the actual EQL meta.

Yeah this theory craft was specifically for the most difficult content at the highest setting solo. My assumption is these challenges will be more difficult to compete without a solid way to sustain hp/mana for extended duration and/or survive burst. I think they are balancing some of the gods/dragons for this including replacing death touch with other mechanics, which I can only guess will be flurry.

Either way I agree those stances do greatly change the approach in some ways, in other ways maybe not. Monk value still seems high to me simply because of how high their cap on skills are, I know they also get block which is a defensive skill that I do not know that any class gets which provides more value to the tank class aspect.

As far as Pal/SK getting defensive stance, that seems like a big deal, I am curious what they are giving warrior to offset this, as they are pretty meh in the tank dept if all three classes can pop defensive.

[Vexenu]

what do berserkers do
Pure melee DPS like Rogues but use 2H weapons instead of daggers. The Devs have stated that they reworked Berserkers more than any other class, though, so we'll see what they came up with exactly. But I imagine their core gameplay will remain largely unchanged: big melee DPS.

Yeah this theory craft was specifically for the most difficult content at the highest setting solo. My assumption is these challenges will be more difficult to compete without a solid way to sustain hp/mana for extended duration and/or survive burst. I think they are balancing some of the gods/dragons for this including replacing death touch with other mechanics, which I can only guess will be flurry.

Either way I agree those stances do greatly change the approach in some ways, in other ways maybe not. Monk value still seems high to me simply because of how high their cap on skills are, I know they also get block which is a defensive skill that I do not know that any class gets which provides more value to the tank class aspect.

As far as Pal/SK getting defensive stance, that seems like a big deal, I am curious what they are giving warrior to offset this, as they are pretty meh in the tank dept if all three classes can pop defensive.
I believe the devs said they added block to Warriors and Rangers (although I'm sure at a lower skill cap than Monks get). Beastlords also have block.

If you look at this site, you can see a lot of the changes they've announced on the lefthand sidebar: https://everquestguides.com/legends/

[kjs86z2]

You guys are really killing me. I was dead set on playing monk / enchanter / xx (undecided).

Now it sounds like both just aren't great since no need for FD or clarity and charm not being as strong since player characters will be hitting a lot harder.

[Evia]

You guys are really killing me. I was dead set on playing monk / enchanter / xx (undecided).

Now it sounds like both just aren't great since no need for FD or clarity and charm not being as strong since player characters will be hitting a lot harder.

Same. I was starting to lean into Cleric/Enchanter/Monk...but now idk.

What about Rogue/Ranger/Monk for ultimate melee dps machine? Or maybe Rogue/Monk/Bard?

Can you not stack pets? So like, necro/beastlord/magician wouldnt work for 3 pets right?

[BradZax]

Same. I was starting to lean into Cleric/Enchanter/Monk...but now idk.

What about Rogue/Ranger/Monk for ultimate melee dps machine? Or maybe Rogue/Monk/Bard?

Can you not stack pets? So like, necro/beastlord/magician wouldnt work for 3 pets right?

Thj was 3 pets, I never played that class but I think emp did.

I had a sk/bst/rog that was a dwarf and he was so rad with his two skeleton bros and daggers and black armor and scar on his eye.

Watching another video, it looks like they are going hard into the THJ system of combo'ing AAs from different classes, not classic p99 class combos.

https://i.imgur.com/5pGxJpz.png

54SCHKlnW8o

[Vexenu]

You guys are really killing me. I was dead set on playing monk / enchanter / xx (undecided).

Now it sounds like both just aren't great since no need for FD or clarity and charm not being as strong since player characters will be hitting a lot harder.
Same. I was starting to lean into Cleric/Enchanter/Monk...but now idk.

What about Rogue/Ranger/Monk for ultimate melee dps machine? Or maybe Rogue/Monk/Bard?
You guys are looking at this through a P99 lens where Enchanters are far and away the most powerful solo class, and where Monks are the best solo melee class (and where FD is one of the most powerful abilities in the game in general). So it makes sense that you'd think ENC + MNK + CLR, SHM, BRD, MAG, etc... would result in the best EQL class. But this really seems to be an entirely different experience they're going for, one where pretty much any reasonable combination of classes can solo effectively. There is no need to rely on OP charm mechanics to solo in EQL, and for that matter nor is there really any reason to try to become more powerful than the next guy, due to the way that loot and instancing works. This is not meant to be a hardcore, competitive type of MMO where players compete for a limited number of spawns. For better or worse, this is going to be more like, "Everyone who shows up and plays gets a participation trophy". The focus is on the individual player (or optionally bringing a few friends) running through dungeon instances for loot. There is not really going to be a meta of "build the most powerful solo monster character you can and farm powerful items to sell for plat", because 1) Every other player can easily farm the same item, and 2) Items can only be traded once before binding to the player, greatly reducing their resale value. This is why my biggest concern with EQL is not that it won't be fun, but simply that it will be so easy that it quickly becomes boring. The game is very much geared toward the casual player.


Can you not stack pets? So like, necro/beastlord/magician wouldnt work for 3 pets right?
No stacking pets. But pet classes get something called a "pet window" which allows for a limited number of permanent gear slots for their pet. The more powerful pet classes get more gear slots, and if you have more than one pet class, they are additive. For exmaple, I believe the Mage gets the standard four slots and an additional +3, while the necro gets +2. So if you were a Necro/Mage you would get +5 slots. Also, if you charm, your pet will automatically equip the gear in the pet slot, and if it dies it won't lose it. So that makes charming pretty fun. Charm just won't be wildly OP compared to everything else like it is in P1999, since player characters in general will be much stronger and mobs will be weaker.

[Evia]

This honestly makes EQL sound even cooler to me. I think I might just pick my favorite 3 Classes and smash them together and have fun. Less concerned about "min/maxing" it.

Which means I'll play Rogue/Bard for sure...just dunno on the 3rd class just yet.

[Vexenu]

This honestly makes EQL sound even cooler to me. I think I might just pick my favorite 3 Classes and smash them together and have fun. Less concerned about "min/maxing" it.

Which means I'll play Rogue/Bard for sure...just dunno on the 3rd class just yet.
Yeah, I think this is really the best approach. If you literally just took your three favorite P99 classes and tossed them together, you'll probably end up enjoying yourself more than trying to powergame it. I mentioned ROG/BRD/CLR before as being potentially a good choice. But you could probably replace the Cleric with a Necro for more DPS and just tap for in-combat heals.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you have a primary class plus two additional classes. You can change the additional classes in any city zone, but your primary class is locked. You will be able to unlock additional primary classes with class unlock tokens. It is currently not clear how these can be obtained, but the devs said you will get one upon hitting 50 on your first character. But the point I'm getting at is that you are probably better off making your primary class something versatile that would work in a lot of trios, that way you have the option of switching it up. Bard would be a great choice. Shaman as well. Cleric would be good. Wizard would be bad. So for example, if you started as a BRD/ROG/CLR but decided you wanted to be tankier and have a pet, you could easily switch to BRD/PAL/NEC. But if you started as CLR/BRD/ROG, you'd have to switch to CLR/XXX/XXX instead. For this reason, I would not be surprised to see a huge percentage of players with Bard as their primary class. The primary class selection is also limited by your race (the secondary classes are not). So for example, if you are an Ogre, you cannot primary class as a Cleric. But you could primary as a WAR, SK, or SHM, then add whatever secondary classes you wanted. For this reason I also expect Humans to be the most popular race choice, since they have the most class options when they obtain their first primary unlock token. There are also ways to unlock races down the line though.

[Evia]

Yeah, I think this is really the best approach. If you literally just took your three favorite P99 classes and tossed them together, you'll probably end up enjoying yourself more than trying to powergame it. I mentioned ROG/BRD/CLR before as being potentially a good choice. But you could probably replace the Cleric with a Necro for more DPS and just tap for in-combat heals.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you have a primary class plus two additional classes. You can change the additional classes in any city zone, but your primary class is locked. You will be able to unlock additional primary classes with class unlock tokens. It is currently not clear how these can be obtained, but the devs said you will get one upon hitting 50 on your first character. But the point I'm getting at is that you are probably better off making your primary class something versatile that would work in a lot of trios, that way you have the option of switching it up. Bard would be a great choice. Shaman as well. Cleric would be good. Wizard would be bad. So for example, if you started as a BRD/ROG/CLR but decided you wanted to be tankier and have a pet, you could easily switch to BRD/PAL/NEC. But if you started as CLR/BRD/ROG, you'd have to switch to CLR/XXX/XXX instead. For this reason, I would not be surprised to see a huge percentage of players with Bard as their primary class. The primary class selection is also limited by your race (the secondary classes are not). So for example, if you are an Ogre, you cannot primary class as a Cleric. But you could primary as a WAR, SK, or SHM, then add whatever secondary classes you wanted. For this reason I also expect Humans to be the most popular race choice, since they have the most class options when they obtain their first primary unlock token. There are also ways to unlock races down the line though.

Wow this is all great info! Yeah, bard as primary class seems like the move for me. Is there a place to read about all of the EQL differences to regular EQ somewhere? Kinda like a wiki?

[Vexenu]

Wow this is all great info! Yeah, bard as primary class seems like the move for me. Is there a place to read about all of the EQL differences to regular EQ somewhere? Kinda like a wiki?
https://everquestguides.com/legends/

This is the best compilation of info I've seen. Mouse over each green check mark on the left of the screen.

[BradZax]

Coldain dwarf should be a playable race on legends.

https://i.imgur.com/FjYflJi.png

[Vexenu]

The NDA for the EQL beta was relaxed this weekend and a lot of streamers who were given beta access have been free to talk more about the game.

Classic EverQuest posted what I think will be the most interesting and informative video for P1999 players:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avYAdlqmcFM

The general consensus is that the game is very fun and addictive. The extensive QoL features are very appreciated and make the game much more accessible and casual friendly. The gameplay in general is much easier than classic EQ/P1999, and anyone looking for a hardcore experience should steer clear for that reason. EQL is basically a power fantasy version of EQ combined with a client that streamlines 3-boxing. This is decidedly NOT "EverQuest" in the traditional sense. It is rather a theme on EverQuest, a new rendition of a familiar tune designed to be easier on the ears and more accessible for the uninitiated to appreciate. Another analogy: if EverQuest was your high school experience, EQL is fulfilling the fantasy of being able to relive those years with the benefits of hindsight, regret, and decades of life experience. The loser dork will become the star quarterback who dates the prom queen; the player who never raided or even got a character over level 50 will solo Naggy and Inny.

In terms of class balance, the game is still work in progress. We can expect additional changes, as many if not most of the classes are still not fully fleshed out in terms of skills, abilities, spells and AAs. Currently Clerics and Bards are by far the strongest classes. This is not surprising given how powerful these classes were in EQ, but the changes they received in EQL have made them even more powerful. Namely:

1) Cleric Complete Heal changed to "Promised Renewal", which is CH with a .25s cast time and an 18 second delay. So instead of standing still for 10 seconds to cast CH, you cast PR in .25 seconds then keep fighting or doing whatever, then you are completely healed 18 seconds later. This allows the full healing power of the Cleric to be harnessed with essentially zero encumberance.

2) The Bard received similar treatment, with their Symphonic Aura AA that allows them to continually background pulse up to five non-targeted songs at a time. Non-targeted meaning self or party buffing songs like haste or regen, but not songs like snare or DoTs. In addition, Bards can still use melody (or manually twist if so inclined) to play an additional 3-4 songs at a time. So Bards are in the absurdly busted position of being able to essentially have an 8-9 song twist going at a time.

The current OP meta character is a WAR/CLR/BRD. The power of the Cleric and Bard I've already explained, the Warrior isn't really overpowered in and of itself, it is simply a solid class that benefits the most both from the wildly powerful gear available through upgrading, and from the benefits provided by the OP Cleric and Bard abilities. Think about an endgame geared Warrior with permanent Bard haste, regen, DS, and rune song, who is also fully Cleric buffed and receiving regular complete heals without having to stop attacking. That's a brute force character that's pretty tough to beat.

That being said, we can still expect a lot of of tinkering and adjustment with the classes, most of which are not even fully fleshed out. The WAR/CLR/BRD may very well be nerfed to some degree, or maybe other classes will receive buffs to the extent that it simply becomes middle of the road. Time will tell. But due to the nature of the game itself, I really don't think players are well-served by chasing a meta or focusing on class balance to begin with. This is simply NOT a competitive game. Not only is it impossible to lose in any meaningful sense, it is basically impossible to miss out on anything in terms of gear or content. Much more so than even traditional EverQuest, EQL is about the journey, not the destination. The entire purpose of the game is simply to have fun playing it. There is no reward at the end. There is no beating out other players for gear or spawns. Everyone will end up with the same gear, the only way to "win" in EQL to have more fun along the way than the next guy.

[BradZax]

Another Good video, talks about how it feels.

He says at the end of the day it feels like Everquest.

IMO THJ at the end of the day was like playing a game in the everquest world, but did not feel like everquest.

EU1wdxEEQnQ

[BradZax]

Holy shit they gave frogs hats.

https://i.imgur.com/t9m9XIG.png

[BradZax]

mfwatching these videos god dammit this sounds great here we go again.

https://i.imgur.com/Gq3K5M5.png

[Evia]

I really didnt think EQ legends was gonna be my thing. After watching all these videos though, I think its going to be a good time. July cant come soon enough!

[kjs86z2]

You guys are looking at this through a P99 lens where Enchanters are far and away the most powerful solo class, and where Monks are the best solo melee class (and where FD is one of the most powerful abilities in the game in general). So it makes sense that you'd think ENC + MNK + CLR, SHM, BRD, MAG, etc... would result in the best EQL class. But this really seems to be an entirely different experience they're going for, one where pretty much any reasonable combination of classes can solo effectively. There is no need to rely on OP charm mechanics to solo in EQL, and for that matter nor is there really any reason to try to become more powerful than the next guy, due to the way that loot and instancing works. This is not meant to be a hardcore, competitive type of MMO where players compete for a limited number of spawns. For better or worse, this is going to be more like, "Everyone who shows up and plays gets a participation trophy". The focus is on the individual player (or optionally bringing a few friends) running through dungeon instances for loot. There is not really going to be a meta of "build the most powerful solo monster character you can and farm powerful items to sell for plat", because 1) Every other player can easily farm the same item, and 2) Items can only be traded once before binding to the player, greatly reducing their resale value. This is why my biggest concern with EQL is not that it won't be fun, but simply that it will be so easy that it quickly becomes boring. The game is very much geared toward the casual player.


ya but there are 4 difficulties for all zones, difficulty 4 is legit challenging and rewards the best loot

i want to be a MONSTER even if im not competing....im just a min / maxxer at heart

plus i got 2 RL homies playing...both are dead set on their classes

homie 1: SK / Bard / Wiz (hes banking on spellcrit AAs synergizing with lifetaps, and bringing the bard to the group)
homie 2: Ranger, Mage, Rogue (his fav 3 classes, wants to bring the boom, plus rogue/mage sneak + coth utility later for speedfarming raids)

So I need to pick 3 that compliments all that. I'm still thinking enchanter will be good on difficulty 4 because mobs become multi classed themselves and I think mana sieve will be huge since some of the mechanics include non-interruptable casters that are CHing themselves.

I think cleric heals + buffs bring a lot to that. So I'm leaning cleric + enchanter + xx (undecided).

[Vexenu]

ya but there are 4 difficulties for all zones, difficulty 4 is legit challenging and rewards the best loot

i want to be a MONSTER even if im not competing....im just a min / maxxer at heart

plus i got 2 RL homies playing...both are dead set on their classes

homie 1: SK / Bard / Wiz (hes banking on spellcrit AAs synergizing with lifetaps, and bringing the bard to the group)
homie 2: Ranger, Mage, Rogue (his fav 3 classes, wants to bring the boom, plus rogue/mage sneak + coth utility later for speedfarming raids)

So I need to pick 3 that compliments all that. I'm still thinking enchanter will be good on difficulty 4 because mobs become multi classed themselves and I think mana sieve will be huge since some of the mechanics include non-interruptable casters that are CHing themselves.

I think cleric heals + buffs bring a lot to that. So I'm leaning cleric + enchanter + xx (undecided).
EQL is NOT like THJ so your buddy will be very disappointed with SK/BRD/WIZ. There will be no kiting entire zones with huge Bard DoT/lifetap crits. In fact, I heard they disabled DoT damage on moving mobs entirely, so Bard kiting is no longer a thing at all on EQL. I know this was the premier toon on THJ but it will be fairly lackluster on EQL. At the very least it will make a very high agro tank, though, which isn't nothing. It's actually pretty hard to make an objectively bad build in EQL, so he will be fine in a group. He just won't be facerolling everything like THJ.

Your second buddy has a better build for pure DPS. Would synergize well with the first guy tanking. Ranger is kind of redundant paired with Rogue though. He's probably better off replacing with Druid for their considerable utility while still maintaining the Ranger feel (Druid/Rogue is basically just Ranger on steroids). You could do something like ENC/CLR/SHM and be a pure caster just focused on charming, CCing, and healing/buffing. Or maybe ENC/CLR/WAR if you want to be more sturdy and also be able to jump in and contribute some DPS/tanking yourself as well.

[Botten]

...
homie 2: Ranger, Mage, Rogue (his fav 3 classes, wants to bring the boom, plus rogue/mage sneak + coth utility later for speedfarming raids)

So I need to pick 3 that compliments all that. I'm still thinking enchanter will be good on difficulty 4 because mobs become multi classed themselves and I think mana sieve will be huge since some of the mechanics include non-interruptable casters that are CHing themselves.

I think cleric heals + buffs bring a lot to that. So I'm leaning cleric + enchanter + xx (undecided).

I do like the Ranger for tracking for named, using a sneak to position and COTH the group tactics. Maybe mixing in some harmony too for outdoor zones.

Yeah difficulty 4 will have multi-class NPCs which you need to get under control before they try to stun or charm you or worse.

Dealing with an NPC that has Promised Renewal is a priority.

[Wayward]

All this talk... will the game be challenging at all? Or is it just a power-fantasy for folks who wanted to see every zone?

Vanilla EQ as seen in p99 seems to be the right amount of challenging, but this iteration (EQL) seems like its not going to be challenging at all....

[Makken]

Gnome rogue/SK/ranger . . . just cuz

[Botten]

All this talk... will the game be challenging at all? Or is it just a power-fantasy for folks who wanted to see every zone?

Vanilla EQ as seen in p99 seems to be the right amount of challenging, but this iteration (EQL) seems like its not going to be challenging at all....

It depends on advertising and hype.

I will tell you this thou. Seeing blue become red and green become blue is not something I will be sticking around for.

And the mess to merge the servers just isn't happening in my eyes.
*pick only 8 toons to keep
*change or claim your name
*plus nilbog is already busy pushing the success and development of EQLs. We maybe competing for his time on both fronts.

[BradZax]

and bringing the bard to the group

I feel like one of the major things THJ did was give everyone runspeed buffs, because tbh I can't imagine not putting bard into every single combo for that alone. 🤔

[Cecily]

I feel like one of the major things THJ did was give everyone runspeed buffs, because tbh I can't imagine not putting bard into every single combo for that alone. ��
Maybe we can donate to the server for buffs.

[Cecily]

Gnome rogue/SK/ranger . . . just cuz
That was one build I really wanted to try. SK Rog Wiz was legitimately great.

I do forget why rogue + ranger would be good beyond sneaking around. It must have been having double assassinate type skills.

[BradZax]

Maybe we can donate to the server for buffs.

I always thought the day someone stops making those buffs permanent (which they were for the servers lifetime) would be the day I stopped playing on THJ.

Like, in the breif moments where it wouldn't be on it was like hell.

So i can't imagine not having a bard in my mix on EQL.

[Cecily]

I don't think it would have been such a problem if that buff didn't exist in the first place. You get acclimated to bard speed and you feel a very real sense of suffering when it's suddenly taken from you. Happens with any standard of living you lose access to. Pretty scummy and sneaky way to drive uh.. donations.

[BradZax]

I don't think it would have been such a problem if that buff didn't exist in the first place. You get acclimated to bard speed and you feel a very real sense of suffering when it's suddenly taken from you. Happens with any standard of living you lose access to.

Yeah but my concern is just knowing that I could have bard run speed with any class combo is going to make me heavily think about picking bard with every build,

The only reason I didnt pick bard on THJ was because everyone had run speed buffs.

Pretty sneaky way to fix a problem with a broken game mechanic the original game specifically controlled—that triple classing breaks.

It's like Fungi theory.

sneaky way to drive uh.. donations.

The clock was invented by Satan so that we went to work on time instead of when it "felt right" so we would become robots and have no free will.

[Vexenu]

Bard speed is not as important on EQL because there is no DoT kiting, you don't have to run to vendor to sell loot, you can pre-scribe all your spells, and the entire focus of the game is clearing (indoor) dungeons. Plus every character starts with "Boots of the Traveler" that cast a SoW that breaks on spell cast/attacking. Bards are still crazy good, but it's for their combat buffs (with Symphonic Aura constantly pulsing 5 songs in the background) and utility, not for Selo's.

[BradZax]

I'm thinking that purely it'd be a must have as a QOL upgrade.

Traveler boots is a nice attempt to mitigate the fact that every class you like can have bard speed but, we'll see.

Sow felt like molasses after you get used to bard speed everywhere.

Being able to run away from anything is super valuable though as well.

And being able to run and heal up and go back and fight, that's pretty epic.

I wouldn't imagine kiting is going to be very viable compared to just face tanking and killing reds anyway.

Another reason bard will be a good combo for melee 🤔

I think my first build will be melee, melee, bard 🤔

[Duik]

THJ is gone.
The stolen stuff itself stolen, then mushed up and spat out as EQL.

As a slight corection, the day people stopped playing THJ was definately when they got their arses handed to them in court.

In this new reality, who is considered to be Brad and who is Smedly? Rogean and Secrets?
I can see people getting tattoos stating No Rogrets

[BradZax]

I think EQL is gonna be pretty fun and successful based off those last few videos.

[Evia]

I decided on BRD primary class, Rogue and Ranger for my 2nd and 3rd.

I like the buffs to ATK from Ranger, plus its kinda a cool power fantasy to be a total Robin Hood badass. DPS from range, DPS up close.
Gotta go Half Elf for thoze Robin Hood boots and side part swashbuckler face.

Its probably not meta but those are technically my favorite 3 classes so why not?!

[BradZax]

Yeah but that sounds like a good build IMO.

Id consider trading ranger for Pal for my build there Evia.

I might do pal monk brd

And for sure froglok

Yall have ruined my lands!

[Evia]

Yeah but that sounds like a good build IMO.

Id consider trading ranger for Pal for my build there Evia.

I might do pal monk brd

And for sure froglok

Yall have ruined my lands!

I had 5 different classes I was considering for my 3rd class after BRD/ROG. MNK, PAL, SK, WAR, RNG.

Honestly, it was tough to decide, but ultimately RNG won out for the reasons I mentioned above....
But to be fair there are lots of perks with the other 4 choices, so it wasnt an easy choice. Ultimately RNG only won out because its my 3rd favorite class in the game after ROG and BRD...and having the chance to play my 3 favorite classes in one EQ "legend" was too good to pass up. Especially for dumb min/max reasons.

[Vexenu]

Remember, the question you need to ask yourself is not, "What is the most powerful class combo that will allow me to get the most/best loot?"

The question is rather, "What class combo will I have the most fun playing?"

Because you're going to get all the loot either way, and pretty much nothing can stop you. On the lowest difficulty level, any competent player regardless of their class choices will be able to solo anything they want. That's the way the game is designed. So any veteran P1999 player will have no trouble whatsoever blowing through content and acquiring gear, no matter what you choose to play. Thus the only thing that really matters is enjoying the playstyle of your character.

[Botten]

I am not sure how easy Legends will be.

Some level 4 hard instances could have Inny and The Faceless as 3 different classes.

[Cecily]

Remember, the question you need to ask yourself is not, "What is the most powerful class combo that will allow me to get the most/best loot?"

The question is rather, "What class combo will I have the most fun playing?"
Sir, this is an Everquest server.

[Kaia]

Yeah, Cecily's right. It's a pretty classic response to that kind of talk. People get so hung up on optimization sometimes.

[BradZax]

Kaia, this is a real human server.

[Ennewi]

This does allow players to better recreate DND builds. For example, Oath of the Ancients paladin made possible by adding druid/ranger. College of Dance bard, with monk and berserker. How many players actually do that though, we'll see. But any attempt to do the same in classic is mostly superficial.

[BradZax]

On live pre kunark I wokred really hard to get full black plate for my paladin, to be an evil paladin.

There were no black plate sleeves 8(

And I was WEAK AF with all the crappy gear, but it was worth it to me.

[Duik]

On live pre kunark I wokred really hard to get full black plate for my paladin, to be an evil paladin.

There were no black plate sleeves 8(

And I was WEAK AF with all the crappy gear, but it was worth it to me.

Got it.
You think, Black = evil.

Maybe it was a gothic Paladin?

[BradZax]

Maybe he was, Duik. Maybe he was.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Remember, the question you need to ask yourself is not, "What is the most powerful class combo that will allow me to get the most/best loot?"

The question is rather, "What class combo will I have the most fun playing?"


Yeah, Cecily's right. It's a pretty classic response to that kind of talk. People get so hung up on optimization sometimes.

Power and fun often go together.

I would say a lot of "which is better?" questions are not caused by the desire for sweaty min/maxing.

People just don't want to play a class/race combo that needs to do the boring grind of killing Grik the Exile to 60, while being unable to do other activities like camping an item solo (i.e. Rogues on P99).

A lot of gamers also don't have much time to play. So a more efficient setup will be more likely to get results in a shorter play session.

[Cecily]

Power and fun often go together.

I would say a lot of "which is better?" questions are not caused by the desire for sweaty min/maxing.

People just don't want to play a class/race combo that needs to do the boring grind of killing Grik the Exile to 60, while being unable to do other activities like camping an item solo (i.e. Rogues on P99).

A lot of gamers also don't have much time to play. So a more efficient setup will be more likely to get results in a shorter play session.
Incorrect.

[Vexenu]

Power and fun often go together.
A lot of gamers also don't have much time to play. So a more efficient setup will be more likely to get results in a shorter play session.
Addressing this issue is literally the driving purpose behind this game, and from everything we've seen so far with the beta they seem to have done a great job. Basically all of the content is soloable by any combination of classes. You don't have to powergame like you did in traditional EQ by playing an Enchanter or Shaman to have a hope of effectively soloing high-end content.

And interestingly, it seems that in EQL Enchanters and Shaman are actually two of the weaker classes. And this makes sense with the changes they've made. In EverQuest, these two classes were powerful primarily because of charm and slow. And both of these spells scale substantially and directly with the power of mobs. The stronger mobs are, the stronger charm is, and the more important slow is for negating damage. But in EQL, since mobs are so much weaker, charm is weaker, and slow is much less important. This makes other classes much stronger comparatively.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Addressing this issue is literally the driving purpose behind this game, and from everything we've seen so far with the beta they seem to have done a great job. Basically all of the content is soloable by any combination of classes. You don't have to powergame like you did in traditional EQ by playing an Enchanter or Shaman to have a hope of effectively soloing high-end content.

And interestingly, it seems that in EQL Enchanters and Shaman are actually two of the weaker classes. And this makes sense with the changes they've made. In EverQuest, these two classes were powerful primarily because of charm and slow. And both of these spells scale substantially and directly with the power of mobs. The stronger mobs are, the stronger charm is, and the more important slow is for negating damage. But in EQL, since mobs are so much weaker, charm is weaker, and slow is much less important. This makes other classes much stronger comparatively.

Some classes will still be weaker than others. I agree that charm will probably not be very useful, unless they increase mob difficulty. But if the game is so easy that lulls, slows, fear, rune, etc, aren't really necessary, then you wouldn't want to pick Enchanter at all. Classes with heavy utility would be weak if utility is largely not needed, as you can just DPS your way though any scenario.

I hope this isn't the case, as that would be boring.

[Vexenu]

Some classes will still be weaker than others. I agree that charm will probably not be very useful, unless they increase mob difficulty. But if the game is so easy that lulls, slows, fear, rune, etc, aren't really necessary, then you wouldn't want to pick Enchanter at all. Classes with heavy utility would be weak if utility is largely not needed, as you can just DPS your way though any scenario.

I hope this isn't the case, as that would be boring.
The more videos I watch of EQL, the more concerned I am that the game will indeed be too easy, and that the only strategy required will just be a "faceroll DPS" approach. For example, look at this recent video from Classic EverQuest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8KkC03SQdM

He is playing a BRD/MNK/ROG, and at around the 20 minute mark you see him start fighting a blue, even, and white con at the same time. He's just meleeing and tanking all three at once. Then halfway through the fight he realizes he has three additional blue cons attacking him from behind. Even still, he is never in danger of dying and easily finishes the fight. So he just face tanks six XP mobs at the same time and easily kills them all. And keep in mind, this is not even on the lowest difficulty setting! This is at rank 2, which is the mid point difficulty (ranges from 0-4).

You can also see how quickly he gains skills when he starts using the wind instrument. I'm really hoping that they have jacked up things like the XP rate and skill gain to assist players in progressing faster during the beta. Because along with the easy combat, fast XP and skill gain further erode any sense of meaningul accomplishment or progression. In this video at approximately 12 minutes in, at level 32 he is gaining 4% XP per kill of an even con mob on level 2 difficulty, and he's able to kill those mobs in 15-20 seconds.

If the game is truly this easy, I don't see how it will retain players for more than a month or two once the novelty and nostalgia start to wear off. For players who actually enjoy challenging EQ gameplay, it seems like you will be forced to self-handicap by playing off-meta builds and/or only soloing on level 3 and 4 difficulty. And even that probably won't be enough to remain satisfying after awhile.

Along with the decisions they made on gear that (quite intentionally) destroy any possibility of a traditional economy developing, and the introduction of solo instances, the ease of the game really has me scratching my head as to why this is even being made as an MMO at all. It basically seems more like a single player game that at most allows you to host co-op multiplayer sessions with 2-7 friends. And it seems like that is exactly what the game will end up feeling like. Rather than a living world like EQ, the MMO aspect of the game will basically feel more like a multiplayer lobby where you can (optionally) find other players to group with for raid content.

[kjs86z2]

The more videos I watch of EQL, the more concerned I am that the game will indeed be too easy, and that the only strategy required will just be a "faceroll DPS" approach. For example, look at this recent video from Classic EverQuest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8KkC03SQdM

He is playing a BRD/MNK/ROG, and at around the 20 minute mark you see him start fighting a blue, even, and white con at the same time. He's just meleeing and tanking all three at once. Then halfway through the fight he realizes he has three additional blue cons attacking him from behind. Even still, he is never in danger of dying and easily finishes the fight. So he just face tanks six XP mobs at the same time and easily kills them all. And keep in mind, this is not even on the lowest difficulty setting! This is at rank 2, which is the mid point difficulty (ranges from 0-4).

You can also see how quickly he gains skills when he starts using the wind instrument. I'm really hoping that they have jacked up things like the XP rate and skill gain to assist players in progressing faster during the beta. Because along with the easy combat, fast XP and skill gain further erode any sense of meaningul accomplishment or progression. In this video at approximately 12 minutes in, at level 32 he is gaining 4% XP per kill of an even con mob on level 2 difficulty, and he's able to kill those mobs in 15-20 seconds.

If the game is truly this easy, I don't see how it will retain players for more than a month or two once the novelty and nostalgia start to wear off. For players who actually enjoy challenging EQ gameplay, it seems like you will be forced to self-handicap by playing off-meta builds and/or only soloing on level 3 and 4 difficulty. And even that probably won't be enough to remain satisfying after awhile.

Along with the decisions they made on gear that (quite intentionally) destroy any possibility of a traditional economy developing, and the introduction of solo instances, the ease of the game really has me scratching my head as to why this is even being made as an MMO at all. It basically seems more like a single player game that at most allows you to host co-op multiplayer sessions with 2-7 friends. And it seems like that is exactly what the game will end up feeling like. Rather than a living world like EQ, the MMO aspect of the game will basically feel more like a multiplayer lobby where you can (optionally) find other players to group with for raid content.

level 4 diff will be tough

im still going enchanter with my trio of homies - mana sieve is gonna be clutch at diff 4

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The more videos I watch of EQL, the more concerned I am that the game will indeed be too easy, and that the only strategy required will just be a "faceroll DPS" approach. For example, look at this recent video from Classic EverQuest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8KkC03SQdM

He is playing a BRD/MNK/ROG, and at around the 20 minute mark you see him start fighting a blue, even, and white con at the same time. He's just meleeing and tanking all three at once. Then halfway through the fight he realizes he has three additional blue cons attacking him from behind. Even still, he is never in danger of dying and easily finishes the fight. So he just face tanks six XP mobs at the same time and easily kills them all. And keep in mind, this is not even on the lowest difficulty setting! This is at rank 2, which is the mid point difficulty (ranges from 0-4).

You can also see how quickly he gains skills when he starts using the wind instrument. I'm really hoping that they have jacked up things like the XP rate and skill gain to assist players in progressing faster during the beta. Because along with the easy combat, fast XP and skill gain further erode any sense of meaningul accomplishment or progression. In this video at approximately 12 minutes in, at level 32 he is gaining 4% XP per kill of an even con mob on level 2 difficulty, and he's able to kill those mobs in 15-20 seconds.

If the game is truly this easy, I don't see how it will retain players for more than a month or two once the novelty and nostalgia start to wear off. For players who actually enjoy challenging EQ gameplay, it seems like you will be forced to self-handicap by playing off-meta builds and/or only soloing on level 3 and 4 difficulty. And even that probably won't be enough to remain satisfying after awhile.

Along with the decisions they made on gear that (quite intentionally) destroy any possibility of a traditional economy developing, and the introduction of solo instances, the ease of the game really has me scratching my head as to why this is even being made as an MMO at all. It basically seems more like a single player game that at most allows you to host co-op multiplayer sessions with 2-7 friends. And it seems like that is exactly what the game will end up feeling like. Rather than a living world like EQ, the MMO aspect of the game will basically feel more like a multiplayer lobby where you can (optionally) find other players to group with for raid content.

Yeah that is a bit concerning the guy can just solo tank 6 mobs in Mistmoore with basic gear lol. I see what you are talking about in the video.

Hopefully they just made things easy for the beta for testing purposes. But we will see.

Or perhaps max difficulty is harder than P99. I doubt it, but we can hope.

[kjs86z2]

Yeah that is a bit concerning the guy can just solo tank 6 mobs in Mistmoore with basic gear lol. I see what you are talking about in the video.

Hopefully they just made things easy for the beta for testing purposes. But we will see.

Or perhaps max difficulty is harder than P99. I doubt it, but we can hope.

they've stated repeatedly the game is intended to be easy

extremely casual friendly

with the option to go to diff 4 - which will be far more challenging

my buddy got a beta key, hes playing SK / bard / wiz....was absolutely murdering upper guk on diff 1, i had him throw it on diff 4 and he got his ass handed to him

this week they're releasing a new build with more buffs for casters...incantations or some shit...basically caster "stances" that will have stacking / complicated mechanics on the high end

[Wayward]

All this talk... will the game be challenging at all? Or is it just a power-fantasy for folks who wanted to see every zone?

Vanilla EQ as seen in p99 seems to be the right amount of challenging, but this iteration (EQL) seems like its not going to be challenging at all....

Let's be honest, we all fell in love with EQ and spent so many hours on it because it was difficult, and the sense of accomplishment was astonishing after spending hours and hours running into trouble.

I get why they tune things to be so easy, but as others have said, as a result of the overwhelming reduction in difficulty:

-There will be no economy
-No pick-up groups
-Player retention will fall off

[oreilly]

Going to do an Ogre warrior necro bard.

I'm not sure if I'll play EQL very long but definitely gonna check it out for some fun.

[kjs86z2]

Let's be honest, we all fell in love with EQ and spent so many hours on it because it was difficult, and the sense of accomplishment was astonishing after spending hours and hours running into trouble.

I get why they tune things to be so easy, but as others have said, as a result of the overwhelming reduction in difficulty:

-There will be no economy
-No pick-up groups
-Player retention will fall off

I think there will be an economy, and all it takes is 1 discord channel for LFG and another for Raid planning.

Remembah, raids can be up to 8 people. On Diff 4 it'll be spicy.

[Vexenu]

With the way item leveling works and the inability to resell items after they've been equipped, I think that bartering will actually become the most common way to trade and acquire gear. This is because with so few transactions taking place it will be very difficult for the market to achieve anything approaching accurate price discovery. What is a Skull-shaped Barbute +8 worth? I don't know, but if I have one after farming in Guk for awhile and don't need it, I'd gladly trade it for that PoS quest piece you have, or maybe for your Robe of the Oracle +5. Basically, people will just level up items they don't need to +5 or above, then hope to trade them for items they DO need to other players doing the same. Because without an active and functional market with a relatively tight bid/ask spread, there is no way to accurately value gear in terms of plat.

In regard to the difficulty and replayability issue, I was thinking they could have some sort of leaderboard for both group (4 man) and guild (8 man) dungeon clears and god kills. They say they plan to introduce non-respawning zone instances with lockouts, so they could probably figure out a way to put a timer on how long the zone was active until it was cleared. That would at least give people something to continuously improve on and compete over.

[Wayward]

EQLegends stans are the softest, most fickle fuckin people out there.

The discord is a joke. It's full of people that spend 12 hours a day in front of a computer screen, can't handle confrontation or disagreement, and want everything to be the way THEY envisioned. And the devs are catering the game to that type of person.

Color me disinterested.

[kjs86z2]

EQLegends stans are the softest, most fickle fuckin people out there.

The discord is a joke. It's full of people that spend 12 hours a day in front of a computer screen, can't handle confrontation or disagreement, and want everything to be the way THEY envisioned. And the devs are catering the game to that type of person.

Color me disinterested.

or you could just play it and not pay attention to discord and see for yourself

also...have you seen the UN discord? lol

[Vexenu]

Beta players seem to have realized how busted Bards are. Basically every tank and melee DPS now has a Bard slotted in one of their three slots. For example, MNK/ROG/BRD gives you insane melee DPS, S-tier pulling/scouting, and solid tanking/survivability between Monk avoidance, Bard plate, Mend, and regen song. PAL/BER/BRD combines damage, tanking, and survivability. They really, really need to do something to buff casters, because the game is currently turning into Bard/MeleeQuest with how OP Bards are, paired with overtuned melee stances and melee damage in general.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Beta players seem to have realized how busted Bards are. Basically every tank and melee DPS now has a Bard slotted in one of their three slots. For example, MNK/ROG/BRD gives you insane melee DPS, S-tier pulling/scouting, and solid tanking/survivability between Monk avoidance, Bard plate, Mend, and regen song. PAL/BER/BRD combines damage, tanking, and survivability. They really, really need to do something to buff casters, because the game is currently turning into Bard/MeleeQuest with how OP Bards are, paired with overtuned melee stances and melee damage in general.

It makes sense. One downside of a melee/caster hybrid like Warrior/Wizard is you are unable to melee while casting a nuke. Bards don't have that problem, so it's an easy pick for a melee who wants some extra utility that can be cast while meleeing.

[Wayward]

or you could just play it and not pay attention to discord and see for yourself

also...have you seen the UN discord? lol

I'm seeing all types of shit come out that is really just ... not EverQuest, plainly.

But yeah good point. I think I'm just becoming increasingly more misanthropic with time. Wish I could go a day without being reminded how modernity is ruining everything. Struggle? Psssh we patched that out, here have some Xanax and play ezMode EverQuest sweetbabychild

[Vexenu]

EQLegends stans are the softest, most fickle fuckin people out there.

The discord is a joke. It's full of people that spend 12 hours a day in front of a computer screen, can't handle confrontation or disagreement, and want everything to be the way THEY envisioned. And the devs are catering the game to that type of person.

Color me disinterested.
I thought you were exaggerating, but I dropped in there today and it was literally exactly as you said. It's a combination of brazen stupidity and arrogance, a bizarre inability to understand the nuances of an opposing argument, and a fixation on making the game as easy and painless as possible. Deeply unpleasant people to interact with on even the most surface level. Discord in general just seems to attract a lot of no-life weirdos.

[Duik]

Just leave it.

If you do not like that sort of thing, just leave it to those who do.

I dont particularly like it either.

You like Fortnite? If not, fuck off there and complain.

Everyone cannot be pleased, so there arent trying. They picked their market and cater to it.

Crybaby weiners like all these naysayers here make me want to vomit.