Effective Necro Combat Techniques

[knottyb0y]

Hey,

I am looking for some advice some more experienced necro's on this server on how to play the class effectively. Ideally I'm looking for multiple techniques for different situations such as.

Solo - outdoors (plenty of kiting room)
Solo - indoors (such as taking a room in a dungeon) **Most interested in hunting in dungeons
A necro's role in groups (can we fill more than one role? what is the most effective use of our abilities?)

I've found myself doing a lot of tap tanking, but I am pretty sure this technique is going to die off as I level (currently level 14). I know of a few techniques like fear kiting, but quite frankly I really feel like I am not using my necro to his fullest potential. Any suggestions would be great, and they really do not need to be all directed at the toolset a level 14 necro has, as I know I will get many more tools as I level, would love some advice on what to expect and how to do it.

[quellren]

Solo - Outdoors:
2 options- fear kiting, or aggro kiting
Aggro kiting- snag it with a Darkness (and maybe add another DoT) /pet attack, and run in a big circle while it dies.
Pros: good control of where the mob goes, no accidental aggro
Cons: little time to med, Darkness can wear off while you run and you'll get beat on while re-applying. DoTs only do 2/3 damage, killing is slower.

Fear kiting- Snag with Darkness, fear, /pet attack (+2nd Dot) med and watch for fear to wear off.
Pros: efficient, easy.
Cons: can't control where the mob runs, may aggro other mobs in the area, or may lose Line of Sight, etc.

Solo Indoors:
pet tank/root rot
/pet attack, root the mob, DoT it up. If pet gets low HP, call it back and let the DoTs work alone.
Can charm if they're undead mobs (this is unreliable until post 50 and mobs are low Dark blue con or Light Blue. Use charm as pet, see above.
Limited opportunity for fear/aggro kiting. It exists, but it can be dangerous.

Group:
You do everything.
DPS with pet and nukes (mobs dont live long enough for DoTs)
Crowd Control with screaming terror and root (and pet)
Ghetto heal with Pact
mana dump to the healers.
You can even pull in a pinch.

Edit: I can still 'tap-tank' at 55, but only on non-kunark/light blue con mobs. Anything that hits for 100+ is too much.
Pull it to you with Bond of Death, and then use Lifetap/Deflux to stay alive. It works, but it's hard on the mana. you're better off root-parking adds and moving the fight out of range of those you've parked.

[Estu]

I have a lowbie necro and was curious about these questions myself, so I sent some tells to high level necros I found in /who all and asked in IRC. For soloing, the consensus seems to be that you should aggro kite outdoors at low levels before you get root: snare and dot the mob and sic your pet on it while you run away. Fear kiting is also an option, but aggro kiting saves you having to recast fear every three ticks. Once you get root, you move into dungeons and start root-dotting, using the pet sparingly. You can actually do this a bit earlier than you get the 'root' spell itself since you get an undead root before that.

I'm not sure about the grouping question; I was mainly interested in soloing tips.

[Estu]

Solo - Outdoors:
2 options- fear kiting, or aggro kiting
Aggro kiting- snag it with a Darkness (and maybe add another DoT) /pet attack, and run in a big circle while it dies.
Pros: good control of where the mob goes, no accidental aggro
Cons: little time to med, Darkness can wear off while you run and you'll get beat on while re-applying. DoTs only do 2/3 damage, killing is slower.

Fear kiting- Snag with Darkness, fear, /pet attack (+2nd Dot) med and watch for fear to wear off.
Pros: efficient, easy.
Cons: can't control where the mob runs, may aggro other mobs in the area, or may lose Line of Sight, etc.

That's right, DoTs still do full damage on feared mobs. I'd go with this over aggro kiting, then.

[knottyb0y]

So by the looks so far.

Solo Outdoor
1. Fear Kiting
2. Aggro Kiting
3. Root n Rot(with pet)

Solo Indoor
1. Root and Rot (with pet)
2. Tap tanking/Pet tanking(until 50+)
1. aggro kite (no room?)

What would be the most mana efficient method. My first bet would be fear kiting because you can meditate after landing fear (40 mana spell lasts 3 ticks?). Indoor seems that root and would be the most mana efficient (hungry earth 30 mana (duration)?) Root (30 mana).

My goal with my character is to have as little down time as possible, but also to do bad ass stuff (such as kick dungeon ass for xp and profit!!). Thanks for the input thus far it seems like I will be able to try out a few of these methods when I log on tonight.

[Polixenes]

Pet tanking without root is also an option if your pet heal over time is more powerful than the mob's damage output. Situational I know.

E.g. Level 49+ on Seafury Island, OOT. The seafuries only hit for 80ish so you pull them to your pet with a level 1 spell, and dot the mob while healing the L49 pet. This was on live years ago, but with Bond of Death (? the pet heal over time) plus Leech and Skele form + dots I could more or less finish a fight with the same mana/hp as I started it. Root adds if necessary.

[TR Spokesman]

at 14 you don't have much potential as a necro. don't have all ur tricks yet.

solo stick to kiting, fear if you can, aggro if you can not.

groups, just do what you can. toss heals/twitch/petdps (lower lvls). when you get higher you can do much more.

dungeons. Well this is depends on the camp in the dungeon really. There are multiple ways to do a camp as a necro. Basically have to talk to other necros that are willing to share how they do a certain camp.


For leveling, i suggest sticking to undead mobs as much as you can until you get invoke fear. Then you can go balls to the wall with fear kiting anything/everything you can think of.

[SupaflyIRL]

Pet tanking without root is also an option if your pet heal over time is more powerful than the mob's damage output. Situational I know.

E.g. Level 49+ on Seafury Island, OOT. The seafuries only hit for 80ish so you pull them to your pet with a level 1 spell, and dot the mob while healing the L49 pet. This was on live years ago, but with Bond of Death (? the pet heal over time) plus Leech and Skele form + dots I could more or less finish a fight with the same mana/hp as I started it. Root adds if necessary.

This is a pretty terrible tactic as opposed to pulling with darkness, fearing, doting and leeching when your hp drops and FDing to let pet tank for the rest of the fight while you med. You're standing to cast snare/fear/dots and medding, then standing to FD and medding after that. If you're constantly casting shadow compact to heal pet you're going to be constantly leeching to regain HP which is the least efficient method of damage available to you.

[quellren]

Pet tanking without root is also an option if your pet heal over time is more powerful than the mob's damage output. Situational I know.

E.g. Level 49+ on Seafury Island, OOT. The seafuries only hit for 80ish so you pull them to your pet with a level 1 spell, and dot the mob while healing the L49 pet. This was on live years ago, but with Bond of Death (? the pet heal over time) plus Leech and Skele form + dots I could more or less finish a fight with the same mana/hp as I started it. Root adds if necessary.
This is a pretty terrible tactic as opposed to pulling with darkness, fearing, doting and leeching when your hp drops and FDing to let pet tank for the rest of the fight while you med. You're standing to cast snare/fear/dots and medding, then standing to FD and medding after that. If you're constantly casting shadow compact to heal pet you're going to be constantly leeching to regain HP which is the least efficient method of damage available to you.

Also, Pet aggro is...wonky...on this server. 2 DoTs are pretty much a guarantee that the recipient of those DoTs is coming for you, Pet taunt be-damned. Makes aggro kiting really easy but your pet can't hold aggro as well as we all remember from live.

As Supafly mentions, leeching for pet heals *is* a way, just not the best way by any means unless you simply have no area to kite or fear.

[SirAlvarex]

As far as pet's holding aggro, at level 21 I find the best way is to pull with snare, smack a dot or 2 on the mob, then feign death. Wait two ticks, and the pet should be able to keep aggro for the rest of the fight. Fear if the pet is getting into trouble. Which, at 21, seems to be all the time at Aviaks. Getting triple'd and quadded for 40 can do serious damage to the pet. I'm hoping once I get the 24 pet that his tanking will improve.

I also found that Kurns is a great place to fear kite indoors. The spawn times are long enough that you can keep the bridge clear, and then pull from the third level. Spook the mob, stack some dots, and rince / repeat. Feign Death if you get unlucky and pull some aggro.

[deakolt]

haha this thread has an awesome title.

Also, fear kiting undead allday is your best bet

[SupaflyIRL]

Protip: if your pet is not holding two weapons and is not being basted every 2-3 mobs you are doing yourself a huge disservice post 24.

[Taketz]

What do you mean, basted?

[Goraxx]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basting_%28cooking%29

[SupaflyIRL]

Lmao iPhone autocorrect (that also properly capitalizes iPhone)

[Taketz]

So what did you mean to post?

[SirAlvarex]

Hasted?

[SupaflyIRL]

Hasted?

[SirAlvarex]

Also, where is a good place to farm the words for the 24 Necro Pet Buff? I got all of the scrolls for the Iksar quest, but the quest giver ate them due to me not being on the 6th skull cap quest (I kinda knew it would happen, but I wanted to try anyway). I really don't want to spend 6 hours trying to kill Escaped Frogloks, and the remaining quests look just as annoying.

Or does anyone have a few copies of the spell to sell?

[mwatt]

I'd like to contribute two comments to what has already been said.

1) Root dot without pet or with pet for only part of the fight is perfectly viable and is pretty much what needs to happen in high level dungeons.

2) Fear kiting can be fine tuned. For instance, in CoM, I typically use fear, but I use the low level one so I have a bit more control of the mob. I know low level fear will wear off faster so I know that if I have a certain "safe" radius where no aggro will occur (and you can find and create these in CoM) then it is perfectly acceptable to fear kite in a scenario where it might normally be dangerous. Of course you loose mana compared to the technique of medding of while root and dot, because you are standing and must cast fear multiple times. But low level fear is cheap, and the pet can be used the whole time this way, without any healing, which is free damage that makes up for the mana lost. Incidentally, if using splurt, be sure to either have fear on the mob or switch to root during the closing moments of the spell, or else too much potential damage goes to waste.

3) At many levels, be sure to give your pet 2 one handed weapons to enforce dual wielding. I believe that at very low levels he cannot and at very high levels he will anyway, but I am not clear on the exact nature of these level restrictions. To be safe, just do it.

[SupaflyIRL]

Believe 56 monk pet is the only one that doesn't need two weaps.

[Seaweedpimp]

Believe 56 monk pet is the only one that doesn't need two weaps.

Correcto

[Bubbles]

This is a pretty terrible tactic as opposed to pulling with darkness, fearing, doting and leeching when your hp drops and FDing to let pet tank for the rest of the fight while you med. You're standing to cast snare/fear/dots and medding, then standing to FD and medding after that. If you're constantly casting shadow compact to heal pet you're going to be constantly leeching to regain HP which is the least efficient method of damage available to you.

it's how you kill 4 seafuries at once, while you are root / rotting the other 3. If you are aggro kiting you're running more than you are sitting. If you are fear kiting you lose the 1 key aspect of necro : control over mob. Obviously some places are more conducive to fear kiting than others (factoring in pathing, roamers, etc) but especially at lower levels unless the target is undead you'll drain more mana casting fear than you'd lose tossing an extra dot while aggro kiting to make up for the dps loss of a moved/nonfeared mob.

Probably the main reason pet tanking + tap tanking is being advocated a bit here is the level range of the island we're discussing.. at 44 necros get DMF, pact of shadow, and a pet who can finally take some hits. Pet dmg, heals, , along with taps are unresistable damage/survivability. When your other option is Venom of the Snake and Assy Toes and getting dooming darkness to stick while spamming fear... well.. lets just say we'll have differing opinions on whats 'efficient' for both the seasoned and up'n'coming necro.

[SupaflyIRL]

it's how you kill 4 seafuries at once, while you are root / rotting the other 3. If you are aggro kiting you're running more than you are sitting. If you are fear kiting you lose the 1 key aspect of necro : control over mob. Obviously some places are more conducive to fear kiting than others (factoring in pathing, roamers, etc) but especially at lower levels unless the target is undead you'll drain more mana casting fear than you'd lose tossing an extra dot while aggro kiting to make up for the dps loss of a moved/nonfeared mob.

Probably the main reason pet tanking + tap tanking is being advocated a bit here is the level range of the island we're discussing.. at 44 necros get DMF, pact of shadow, and a pet who can finally take some hits. Pet dmg, heals, , along with taps are unresistable damage/survivability. When your other option is Venom of the Snake and Assy Toes and getting dooming darkness to stick while spamming fear... well.. lets just say we'll have differing opinions on whats 'efficient' for both the seasoned and up'n'coming necro.

You shouldn't be casting anything but the appropriate level boil blood/life drain dots at lvl 44 on seafuries due to the negative resist check, venom of the snake will be resisted about 2/3 times at that level on the mid to higher level cyclopses and asystole is worthless to begin with. The #1 key aspect of a necro is not control over the mob its efficiency and mana regen. Why would you even need "control over the mob" like fearing is some kind of death trap in an outdoor area like that.

Also, that section on "throwing an extra dot" while aggro kiting is retarded, you waste way more mana aggro kiting and casting an extra dot than you do sitting for the duration of a 100 mana fear, or a 60 mana FD to let your pet finish the mob off. The goal of a successful kill for a necro is to remain sitting for the largest percentage of the kill as is possible.

[knottyb0y]

If you are fear kiting you lose the 1 key aspect of necro : control over mob.

Very good point. I feel like fear kiting is effective when you are fighting something too powerful for you, am I correct in this assumption?

Probably the main reason pet tanking + tap tanking is being advocated a bit here is the level range of the island we're discussing.. at 44 necros get DMF, pact of shadow, and a pet who can finally take some hits. Pet dmg, heals, , along with taps are unresistable damage/survivability.

So is tap tanking a viable option in say a dungeon. I have been toying with the idea of focusing my gear primarily towards AC and +HP with +mana and INT secondary. The question is would the boost in HP and AC combined with your Lifetap Over Time spells and lifetap dds be a decent way to take out a camp or exp grind on. I would imagine rooting the mob would be useful for when you need to back off and get mana/hp. I guess the idea is that your tap spells aren't 100% mana efficient if you are at full hp, and I don't know this for sure, but our pets aren't viable tanks(correct me if I'm wrong). By spreading the love between your pet and your hp and landing some taps it seems like you might be pretty efficient.

just a thought.

[Humwawa]

If you fear kite in dungeons, learn the pathing and downrank your fear. Fear or Spook the Dead give more control over how far the mob paths away from you. Once you have a suitable area cleared, fear kiting becomes a solid choice.

Shoot for undead. Spook the Dead costs like 7 mana. It's efficient. If you're nervous, keep root memmed. You can fear kite almost anywhere, if you know what you're doing.

Tap tanking is a desperation move meant for summoning mobs. Don't use it to level. If you do tap tank, be sure to move your pet behind the mob while doing it. The damage increase is noticeable, particularly with a hasted charm pet. But most importantly, use this as a last resort.

I never much liked pet pact healing. I've done it when I had to, but it loses most of its power as the spell level where you picked it up falls behind you. Some people love it, and I like the idea, but Pact of Shadow / Shadowbond soloing isn't as efficient as kiting or charm burning. Taps are expensive.

Learn when to sit. Watch when your mana % increases, and be sure to be sitting 5 seconds after that point, to catch the next tick. It adds up, and it's a good habit to get into. You only have to be sitting for the tick, and when you get better at it, sitting for that second won't waste your time. When you are good at this, aggro kiting surpasses fear kiting in efficiency (providing room to do so).

[SupaflyIRL]

Very good point. I feel like fear kiting is effective when you are fighting something too powerful for you, am I correct in this assumption?

Fear Kiting:

Pros - Full dot damage, full pet damage, can med while doing this
Cons - Mob runs around

Root Rotting:

Pros - Full dot damage, Mob stationary, can med
Cons - May have to periodically back pet out if root is breaking/is getting beat on

Aggro Kiting:

Pros - Control where mob goes, full pet damage
Cons - cannot med, reduced dps (both of these together are entirely unacceptable imo)

Drain Tanking:

Pros - Full dot damage, full pet damage, mob stationary
Cons - Full YOU damage, interrupts (reduced dps/efficiency), cannot med, have to focus on inefficient drain spells, "if you can tank it your pet can tank it"

Fear > Root > Aggro > Drain Tank

Basically, if you can control the "mob runs around" part fear kiting is ALWAYS option 1

[Humwawa]

Aggro Kiting:

Pros - Control where mob goes, full pet damage
Cons - cannot med, reduced dps (both of these together are entirely unacceptable imo)

Bold portion is untrue. I did forget about the "newly added" dot damage reduction while kiting, however.

[SupaflyIRL]

Bold portion is untrue. I did forget about the "newly added" dot damage reduction while kiting, however.

counting to 5 over and over again for a couple hours is the very definition of tedious. I do it when I have to but would probably go insane using it as my primary method of mana regen.

[Humwawa]

Efficiency is almost by definition boring. It is what it is.

[TR Spokesman]

it's how you kill 4 seafuries at once, while you are root / rotting the other 3. If you are aggro kiting you're running more than you are sitting. If you are fear kiting you lose the 1 key aspect of necro : control over mob. Obviously some places are more conducive to fear kiting than others (factoring in pathing, roamers, etc) but especially at lower levels unless the target is undead you'll drain more mana casting fear than you'd lose tossing an extra dot while aggro kiting to make up for the dps loss of a moved/nonfeared mob.

Probably the main reason pet tanking + tap tanking is being advocated a bit here is the level range of the island we're discussing.. at 44 necros get DMF, pact of shadow, and a pet who can finally take some hits. Pet dmg, heals, , along with taps are unresistable damage/survivability. When your other option is Venom of the Snake and Assy Toes and getting dooming darkness to stick while spamming fear... well.. lets just say we'll have differing opinions on whats 'efficient' for both the seasoned and up'n'coming necro.

fear sea furies into the sea. root rot 3-4 others.

edit: sometimes those corpses could get bugged and you can't loot them. but isn't that big of a deal. If you do it right you can let fear wear off and let them wander back to you on the beach before they die, and then fear another out to sea.

edit2: you can also charm the higher lvl Spec and kill sea furies with it by fear kiting (dunno how well this works anymore now that charm is wonky, but i did it back in the day on my necro)

[Bubbles]

You shouldn't be casting anything but the appropriate level boil blood/life drain dots at lvl 44 on seafuries due to the negative resist check, venom of the snake will be resisted about 2/3 times at that level on the mid to higher level cyclopses and asystole is worthless to begin with. The #1 key aspect of a necro is not control over the mob its efficiency and mana regen. Why would you even need "control over the mob" like fearing is some kind of death trap in an outdoor area like that.

we agree that anything MR or poison/disease based isn't efficient mana use. However fear-kiting relies on fear + darkness.. both mr based, and very, very little dmg for the mana spent. I'll grant you pet tanking doesnt really shine until 49 when bond of death allows for a lot more pacts to be cast without a strain on your hps.

As for mana regen, necros have it darn good. as far as 'control' goes, i'll delve into it in my next post, which deals with xp areas. Anyone fear kiting is doing so outdoors and with the absence of a solid ZEM. Which doenst lend to efficiency at all.


Also, that section on "throwing an extra dot" while aggro kiting is retarded, you waste way more mana aggro kiting and casting an extra dot than you do sitting for the duration of a 100 mana fear, or a 60 mana FD to let your pet finish the mob off. The goal of a successful kill for a necro is to remain sitting for the largest percentage of the kill as is possible.

And you're the one wasting mana on fear + a low dmg dooming darkness. If i need to chain fear and darkness for the privilege of sitting, then i'm not exactly 'winning' am i? :)

[Bubbles]

Very good point. I feel like fear kiting is effective when you are fighting something too powerful for you, am I correct in this assumption?


Yeah, fear kiting is for mobs that simply hit way too hard for your pet (or you) to handle. Whats weird is what a lot of people remember from live: necro + rogue/ranger/monk/dps fear-kite duo isn't nearly as effective here with smaller hit boxes and faster (even when snared) moving mobs. Most necros i've seen (myself included) generally when duoing with a melee usually just treat the melee like a pet and pact to keep the melee alive while dots n pet do the rest of the non-pc dps. Monks are especially good for that task.


So is tap tanking a viable option in say a dungeon. I have been toying with the idea of focusing my gear primarily towards AC and +HP with +mana and INT secondary. The question is would the boost in HP and AC combined with your Lifetap Over Time spells and lifetap dds be a decent way to take out a camp or exp grind on. I would imagine rooting the mob would be useful for when you need to back off and get mana/hp. I guess the idea is that your tap spells aren't 100% mana efficient if you are at full hp, and I don't know this for sure, but our pets aren't viable tanks(correct me if I'm wrong). By spreading the love between your pet and your hp and landing some taps it seems like you might be pretty efficient.

just a thought.

AC is capped pretty low for cloth wearers. HPs are the most important stat though, by far, since your Hit points are the basis for your mana regen, as well as what you use when you take hits for your pet, take hits while you deal with snare/fear/root resists. and what you draw off of pacting healing to your pet or another player.

You will always do well to keep hps as high as possible. HP (not STA) gear is preferable since STA - hp ratio for casters is something silly like 2-1 to maybe 3-1 at 60... simply put, you'll always do far better getting +hp items vs. +sta items if your goal is higher max hps.

Basic hp gear worth buying:
Plat Fire Wedding Rings (5ac/55 hps) jewelcrafted
Cloak of the Icebear? (8ac 10hps)
Carved Ivory mask (2ac 4agi 10hps)
Golden Jaded Bracelets (2ac 15hp 15 mana) jewelcrafted
Kobold Hide Boots (5ac 3agi 10 hps)

Higher level hp gear worth having:
Hooded Black Cloak (8ac 5str 45hps)
Djarn's Ring (9agi 80hps)
Black Sapphire Electrum Earrings (2ac 35 hps 25 mana)
Black Sapphire Platinum Necklace (55hp / 55mana)
Rokkyls Channeling Crystal (50hps, other less important stuff)
Staff of the Waterwalker (2hb +100hps, other stats)
Idol of the Thorned (10ac 7str 10sta)

is a basic rundown.

as for the rest of your post:

Tap spells arent royally efficient.. BUT. they are 100% unresistable so it's not as bad as you think. Your undead DD line is also very good at hitting at at or near max, as well.

You'll have to learn dungeons on your own. Everyone does dungeons their own way. Remember that root is your friend, lulls are good, but duoing with a Monk/SK/Enc/CLR type that can split easier than you can and add heals/dps/etc is even easier.. just because you can solo doesn't mean it's the best road. I've always found duoing to be the xp sweet spot of safety + constant killing, without 5 other ppl to roll against.. Honestly, anytime you have more than 3-4 ppl in a group there's always 1 or 2 afk and it's rarely as efficient as it should be.

Above all else. Bertoxx gave you root, feign, a pet, and harmshield for a reason. Never feel bad about trying something that doesnt work out and having to feign, resummon a pet and start all over. Other classes die, you get the luxury of learning without paying the penalty. In my experience, you will find a small group of people you enjoy duoing/trioing with and that's what will keep bringing back to log in and have fun. Soloing is boring, and anything in a dungeon is safer as well as more fun and rewarding with a buddy or two. :)

[Bubbles]

@TR Spokesman -- My #1 pet peeve was trying to loot furries in water, so i hated having them over the ocean when it was time to finish them off. That's a personal annoyance of mine tho. Generally i always did furies for loot first and xp second. I hated the thought of losing even once corpse to my laziness heh.

I also never thought to charm a spec. That would have been pretty boss back in the day when charm was uber. Course back then there was always a druid or wiz quadding the specs.

As for Athiyk.. I agree with basically everything he says. He's much better at wording when it comes to this stuff than i'll ever be.

[TR Spokesman]

@TR Spokesman -- My #1 pet peeve was trying to loot furries in water, so i hated having them over the ocean when it was time to finish them off. That's a personal annoyance of mine tho. Generally i always did furies for loot first and xp second. I hated the thought of losing even once corpse to my laziness heh.

I also never thought to charm a spec. That would have been pretty boss back in the day when charm was uber. Course back then there was always a druid or wiz quadding the specs.

As for Athiyk.. I agree with basically everything he says. He's much better at wording when it comes to this stuff than i'll ever be.

Yeah, I lost a few in the water before I figured out the right dot/fear combo to use on them to where they would come back to the beach to die. Made it pretty simple then. (worst is having dino loot rot underwater tho).

and yeah, most of the time a druid or someone would be doing spectres, but every now and then you could steal the higher lvl ones to use kill furies with.

[SupaflyIRL]

Idol of the thorned isn't that great since as a pure caster our sta to hp conversion is fairly weak. If you can't find a good +hp item for a slot it's good to focus on maximizing mana pool as mana pool size is still very important for oh shit situations.

[Bubbles]

Idol of the thorned isn't that great since as a pure caster our sta to hp conversion is fairly weak. If you can't find a good +hp item for a slot it's good to focus on maximizing mana pool as mana pool size is still very important for oh shit situations.

ya its a matter of personal preference. Really the only two alternatives are the Dagger of Marnek and the Dustcryers Ball.. For me, i like the AC and the hp boost, and extra STR is always good for carrying around extra plat and loots.

@TR -- Dino was the worst, since if you were fearing him he'd always run as far out into the water as possible to spite you, and only when low health. it's like he knew 'this time i finally have a rare gem he wants, it's time to take one for the team and die as far out in the ocean as possible!.

[mwatt]

One more thing to add about the beneficial side of fear kiting - I didn't see it in the posts yet and apologies if I am simply re-iterating: Fearing is a great tactic to use against caster mobs, if conditions allow it.

Regarding Dagger of Marnek and Dustscriers Ball... I recently had the option to choose one of the other for my Necro. Although I was attracted to the ball because of the higher "leet" factor, I went with the dagger. Although they are pretty close to each other stat-wise, I judged that the dagger actually edged out the ball. Anyone have a dissenting opinion on that?

[quellren]

One more thing to add about the beneficial side of fear kiting - I didn't see it in the posts yet and apologies if I am simply re-iterating: Fearing is a great tactic to use against caster mobs, if conditions allow it.

Regarding Dagger of Marnek and Dustscriers Ball... I recently had the option to choose one of the other for my Necro. Although I was attracted to the ball because of the higher "leet" factor, I went with the dagger. Although they are pretty close to each other stat-wise, I judged that the dagger actually edged out the ball. Anyone have a dissenting opinion on that?

I have the dagger too. The stats are very close, 3int 15hp, or 2int 30mana
I'd personally take the ball due to the +30 mana since the 200 cap is so easy to hit, and 15hp is laughable. The deciding factor for me was that the dagger was like 300p, and the only ball I found in EC the guy was 'taking offers' and said suggested I start in the neighborhood of 4k. LoL.

Edit: I should have hit the wiki instead of my memory. the Dagger is 3int 15mana, not hp. I like the ball, but not at 10x the price.

[Bubbles]

Reason the ball is so spendy is because the classes that actually care about thier max mana (Wiz/Mag/Enc), it's the only option.. And the dagger is necro only. Since we're just as happy with hitpoints it's a no-brainer.

And like i said, i use idol of the thorned simply for the hps and STR boost (i also wear a TBB).. After you've played a necro for a while you'll realize that the only stat that's going to matter in the long run is maxxing your STR so you can hold more PP and loots in between bank runs. lol and that's the truth.

[knottyb0y]

One more thing to add about the beneficial side of fear kiting - I didn't see it in the posts yet and apologies if I am simply re-iterating: Fearing is a great tactic to use against caster mobs, if conditions allow it.


That's a really good point, caster mobs are something I generally try to avoid but fear (if you have a safe are) would pretty much lock their casting down right?

[Nazran]

Re: fear kiting undead... Where is a decent place to do that 15-25? I am in LOiO right now and while there are a lot of undead around you are constantly running in to live mobs to mess you up and if you only have undead fear memmed... well bad things could happen.

[Humwawa]

15-25 is perfect for charming in Unrest.

If you clear out enough of the fireplace area, you can fear kite there, too.

I've never thought to make a leveling guide. Here's what comes to mind.

1-10 - I pretend these levels don't exist. All a necro's greatest weaknesses are obvious at these levels; poor mana efficiency, weak direct damage, and none of the key spells to lessen them.

10-15(?) - Befallen. Maybe Kurns?

15 to 25-30 - Unrest. You start outside. You move in. You move up. Then you move down. I used charm burn as soon as I could. In essence, charm burning is doing one point of damage to a mob a charmed mob is killing, gauging how low you can get both, then killing them both. I've found charm to be more stable at lower levels than higher, but that may just be me.
Alternately, you can do 25-30 in Qeynos Hills, killing the Millers and the Surefall guards. This gives you a shot at Pyzjn, and a shiny GBS.

30-50. Guk. Guk, Guk, Guk. I love Guk. If Charm isn't your thing, this is where you learn to FD pull (or Lull), and dungeon fear kite. You start near Ass/Supp, and you work your way down.

50-54 - There's a ruin near Emperor Ganak, in Trak's Teeth, full of blue/light blue casters with extremely low hp. Go inside the hall to the right of Ganak, and fear kite them in there. If you have a Staff of Undead Legions, put Vamp Embrace up and melee them to death. The fear pathing is hilarious. It's like playing Pong - they bounce off the walls, careen into rocks, and if they path into others... why, you snare/fear them too. It's like juggling.... with corpses.

55-60 - You have two real choices, in my mind. You go to Howling Stones and fear kite / charm burn, or you go to CoM and do the same, slowly working your way to the third floor.

I suck at this.

[Nazran]

15-25 is perfect for charming in Unrest.

If you clear out enough of the fireplace area, you can fear kite there, too.

Man that would make me nervous fear kiting there...

[Humwawa]

That's part of the fun! You test the waters, see how far a Spook will take a mob, and how close to other mobs, then you clear what you need to.

Once you have the length of a Spook cleared, any add is a minor inconvenience. Fear is powerful CC. All you have to do is pull the mob to the fear cast starting point. Then Snare/Fear. Then juggle them ad nauseam until they're dead.

My favorite spot is in Reclusive AM's room. You cheam clear it all out, then you clear out the outer room. Then... you fear!

[knottyb0y]

30-50. Guk. Guk, Guk, Guk. I love Guk. If Charm isn't your thing, this is where you learn to FD pull (or Lull), and dungeon fear kite. You start near Ass/Supp, and you work your way down.


I can't wait to hunt in Guk with my necro. I often solo but my shaman buddy and I have plans to dominate dungeons together. I can't really think of a deadlier duo group than a Necro and a Shaman. Victory Over Time.

[aresprophet]

Reason the ball is so spendy is because the classes that actually care about thier max mana (Wiz/Mag/Enc), it's the only option.. And the dagger is necro only. Since we're just as happy with hitpoints it's a no-brainer.

And like i said, i use idol of the thorned simply for the hps and STR boost (i also wear a TBB).. After you've played a necro for a while you'll realize that the only stat that's going to matter in the long run is maxxing your STR so you can hold more PP and loots in between bank runs. lol and that's the truth.

Dagger of Marnek is 3 int 15 mana, not 15 hp. So it loses out to the ball at all levels and at all int values in terms of pure mana.

But not by much; pre-softcap at 50 the ball is 50 mana while the dagger is 45, and post-softcap the ball is 40 and the dagger is 30. So it's not a huge difference. Idol of the Thorned gives 30 hp at level 60, and its a much more costly item.

[Bubbles]

Dagger of Marnek is 3 int 15 mana, not 15 hp. So it loses out to the ball at all levels and at all int values in terms of pure mana.

But not by much; pre-softcap at 50 the ball is 50 mana while the dagger is 45, and post-softcap the ball is 40 and the dagger is 30. So it's not a huge difference. Idol of the Thorned gives 30 hp at level 60, and its a much more costly item.

Right, i never said the marnek dagger was 15 hps, i meant the the idol was going to give you 15hps (and closer to 30 at level 60, yeah).

My main point of contention is to realize that the necro's need for the ball isn't anywhere near the 'need' of a mage/enc/wiz.. and that's the 3 people you are competing with in EC for the item. And those 3 don't have your marnek dagger fallback prize, so it's worth relatively *tons* more to them than it will be to you.

It'd be like an enchanter bidding against a bard or necro for an orb of tishan. The enchanter can use it, it's beneficial to them to have it, but it's much more effective and desired by the latter two classes.

Kinda like how most necros look at a hand of the reaper, /shrug their shoulders and wonder 'why isn't that a MAG item?", on the basis of what they would have to give up out of their current gearset to equip it... for +mana/int/vanity.