Palidans Vs. SKS

[visage]

Who is better and why?

[Arrisard]

I'm not gonna get into who is "better" other than I think paladins are great for no-damage aggro generation/MAT and some healing utility. SK's are great for pulling/assisting in pulls. Some other nuances, but those are the things that immediately jump to mind.

SKs have a bit more solo ability though, imo.

[visage]

Performance wise SK have the advantage over pali in dungeons solo? I mean Pali gets lulls which on p99 seems to suck , but none the less sks get Fd. Ultimately Sks can heal too with lifetaps and it causes damage. So what is the advatage over sk as a pali ?

[Kevlar]

pallys can solo half decent vs undead mobs.

[maverixdamighty]

paladins solo better in dungeons 45 + imo. Thanks dw helmet...

[visage]

paladins solo better in dungeons 45 + imo. Thanks dw helmet...

How? Isn't Fd the ultimate tool for dungeons

[maverixdamighty]

depends on the dungeon. 40+ i soloed in solb/guk as a paladin with lull/root and dw helmet( free 6s heal) I'm sure i was more efficient than a sk.

[Kelven]

How? Isn't Fd the ultimate tool for dungeons

Shadowknight FD leaves a lot to be desired.

1 second CAST time really freaking blows.. not only do you have to stand completely still, but you have to wait for the damn cast to go off, which gets interrupted sometimes, and is near impossible to time if you have 2 casters on you.

wtb death peace plz

[Ektar]

paladins can't solo undead mobs. I don't know why people keep saying this.

Paladins can do THIS to undead:

-Cast spook the dead, a level 1 cleric spell. If you fear an undead mob this helps you, on a scale of 1 to 10, probably.. negative 5.
-Cast an undead nuke. this undead nuke is the nuke of (without looking it up) probably that of a level 30 cleric. The use of mana is inefficient, and probably reduces DPS after casting time is considered.
-Use Truvian (or whatev not looking it up), the PoSky sword. This sword is like ghoulbane where it procs dismiss undead, but has a better ratio. However, not only does it require killing the eye of veeshan, but it is probably only slightly more dps than Fiery Avenger (which has a 110 proc vs everything with a better ratio instead of 150something vs undead).
-Invis vs undead. Useless during soloing.

OK! Paladin can't solo undead - myth debunked.


This is a response to other people, not the OP who is likely just looking for people to respond even though he doesn't care :p

[visage]

Ahh okay. We'll can anyone list something they did solo that they think the opposite class would've either had difficulty doing or not at all.

[Treats]

If a Paladin is played right their CC can be as effective as an Enchanter (except on heavy casters where you cannot get out of LoS).

[visage]

paladins can't solo undead mobs. I don't know why people keep saying this.

Paladins can do THIS to undead:

-Cast spook the dead, a level 1 cleric spell. If you fear an undead mob this helps you, on a scale of 1 to 10, probably.. negative 5.
-Cast an undead nuke. this undead nuke is the nuke of (without looking it up) probably that of a level 30 cleric. The use of mana is inefficient, and probably reduces DPS after casting time is considered.
-Use Truvian (or whatev not looking it up), the PoSky sword. This sword is like ghoulbane where it procs dismiss undead, but has a better ratio. However, not only does it require killing the eye of veeshan, but it is probably only slightly more dps than Fiery Avenger (which has a 110 proc vs everything with a better ratio instead of 150something vs undead).
-Invis vs undead. Useless during soloing.

OK! Paladin can't solo undead - myth debunked.


This is a response to other people, not the OP who is likely just looking for people to respond even though he doesn't care :p

This was very valuable info. So the lull I take it works on all creatures not just undead. I never played a palidan personally. Just made one. I always thought they sucked real hardcore.

[Hottbiscuits Dreadmuffin]

Shadowknights can fear kite, they get pets (which only get you killed, but Jebobers are cute imo) snare kite, get the CoS which (right now) is 0.1 cast invis allowing for fairly successful CR missions, they can summon corpses, they eventually get the same skeleton-illusion-mana-thing that Necromancers do (but this may be Velious/Luclin+, I forget), they have an undead-only lull, and you can be a Dark Elf.

It's been forever since I played my Shadowknight on Live, but I loved it. I remember snare-kite-soloing the entrance mobs in Chardok. Even though the FD is a 1 second cast time, it's comforting to know that if something goes wrong, you have a way of saving yourself.

[isoka]

paladins can't solo undead mobs. I don't know why people keep saying this.

Maybe because people remember paladins after SoL era where they get slay undead AA ?

[superapan]

Maybe because people remember paladins after SoL era where they get slay undead AA ?
That, and with the Instrument of Nife buff (Luclin) is another 250-ish damage proc vs undead. When I made a paladin on KB server when it went live, I got the first Ghoulbane on the server (omg), and it was really awesome in Lguk at 30-ish with both procs.

[Yinikren]

The thing everyone doesn't seem to realize is that every spell for undead that pallies get, shadowknights also get too. So what it comes down to is what your looking for - a high agro MA through stuns, or the versatility of an sk.

[maverixdamighty]

paladins do have an advantage against undead, but ektar is right for the most part. The advantage like he mentioned is weapons with undead proc dd's. If you are just starting a new character here and are not twinked by level 20 you should be able to afford a ghoulsbane for 500pp or so and then get a 120 dd proc which is very beneficial at level 20.

high end paladins get divine aura at 55, sup heal at 57, 90% rez at 59, celestial healing at 59, and decent hp/ac/symbols at upper levels.

Paladins are definitely much more defensive in nature compared to SK's so just depends on how you want to play.

[xshayla701]

SK races>paladin races

[Doors]

SKs are the worst

[Webwolf]

Paladins are extremely versatile but it's not an easy class to play so it's very easy to suck as a pally but to me that challenge is what makes the class so much fun to play. People already assume you suck so when you shine in a group it's all compliments.

Paladin advantages:

Solo:
I solo alot actually, blue/light blue mobs with the help of my DW helm (120hp heal), I will take mobs down to about 50% before I have to root them and heal to full with the helm, rinse repeat. And if I am soloing undead mobs I can nuke them with my 270 dmg nuke. Also if you happen to get the Thelvorn like Ektar mentioned you can do even better. With that being said soloing as a pally is slow so I only do it to farm named mobs or while LFG.

Pulling:
I love pulling for my groups. People who group with me often know how well I can pull with the help of lull / root. If you can't pull as a paladin then you are doing it wrong.

Tanking:
In my oppinion paladins have a great advantage as tanks... STUNS, I have 3 stuns loaded at all times and I can freeze mobs of a bard / enchanter so they will take little to no dmg. Another great advantage of stuns is that if your healer can't get a heal / cheal in time you can chain stun a mob until the heal lands.

Lay Hands:
You can save yourself, save your cleric , your enchanter or any group member with LoH, 72mins refresh sucks but it's a skill to be used in case of emergency. Yesterday in HS our group was doomed to wipe when our bard got resisted on a pull and brought over a bunch of adds, the cleric wasn't going to be able to heal him in time so I landed LoH on the bard and saved the day... for a while, we wiped later on =/

There is more to it but that's just what comes to mind atm.

[Ennoia]

Shadowknight FD leaves a lot to be desired.

1 second CAST time really freaking blows.. not only do you have to stand completely still, but you have to wait for the damn cast to go off, which gets interrupted sometimes, and is near impossible to time if you have 2 casters on you.

wtb death peace plz

Feign Death is supposed to be a 1.5 second cast time, with Death Peace being 1 second cast.

As for Shadow Knight vs Paladin, it depends on your play style. Right now, they're about equal for usefulness. Once the majority of important mobs become immune to Stun when Velious comes out, Paladins get kinda shafted.

[maverixdamighty]

paladins are also the best pullers of amy temple in fear for all your sk armors so paladins > sk's!

[Webwolf]

Once the majority of important mobs become immune to Stun when Velious comes out, Paladins get kinda shafted.

Not really, the same amount of aggro is still generated when a mob is immune or resist stuns. At least that's how it was on live.

[Juugox2]

sk ftw esp for soloing if you cant find a group fear kiting ftw :D

[Mardur]

I'll take a Paladin over a SK any day. Really the biggest advantage for SKs is that they can be Ogres.

[visage]

Do Paladans get mad if they get called Pally?

[Ektar]

paladins get mad when a troll calls them paladans or palidans :P

[visage]

paladins get mad when a troll calls them paladans or palidans :P

When you comming back into the game man?

[Doors]

Ektar is palladan scum

[bakkily]

i just tend to like paladins over sk's, reason, if someone is going to play the class, most of the time every pal i run into is decked out with great gear, but if someones going to choose between the two, they'd pick the sk because they can solo much better

[Motec]

paladin has no place in the game except casting BSS.

Sk's are downright one of the most overpowered and underutilised classes in the game in all of eq's history.

/thread.

[maverixdamighty]

^disagree having played both

[Mardur]

People who choose "Paladin" on the character creation screen are generally better people irl than those who pick other classes. Scientifically proven fact.

[Ektar]

;)

[Ennoia]

People who choose "Paladin" on the character creation screen are generally better people irl than those who pick other classes. Scientifically proven fact.

You've said some pretty dumb shit before, but this definitely takes the cake.

I'll take a Paladin over a SK any day. Really the biggest advantage for SKs is that they can be Ogres.

Nevermind...this was dumber.

[Xadion]

Hey guys, whats going on in this thread?

oh Pallys are better- dont play a SK...you haz not teh balls

true SKs = DE/Human others are dumb...maybe teh bro's and iksars...but gnome/troll/oger just dont "fit" Knight of Darkness to me

I just deffer my comments to Ektar, please continue

[Brut]

Harm touch VS lay hands is the big question here! Think of it like you got a big fight that you're going to go to. One guy goes there with a gun, he's got only one bullet, but, yeah, he's got the idea. Meanwhile some complete tool goes out there with a med kit.

[Xadion]

Harm touch VS lay hands is the big question here! Think of it like you got a big fight that you're going to go to. One guy goes there with a gun, he's got only one bullet, but, yeah, he's got the idea. Meanwhile some complete tool goes out there with a med kit.

A bullet that is resisted, as opposed to the guy that is on the bink of death, arms and legs severed and his head hanging on by a sinu of flesh- pop back to perfect! wooo

HT has always sucked in terms of LoH- untill we can start HTing for 32k its useless.

[Brut]

A bullet that is resisted, as opposed to the guy that is on the bink of death, arms and legs severed and his head hanging on by a sinu of flesh- pop back to perfect! wooo

HT has always sucked in terms of LoH- untill we can start HTing for 32k its useless.
It's the general idea that matters. And iirc LoH isn't even to full hp!

[Verenity]

LoH is the big difference/utility in my mind. It's comforting to know that your tank can save himself/the cleric/the chanter if things all go to hell every hour and change. Both classes have great aggro, but SKs work alot of that aggro off of dots, so if for whatever reason the tank has to switch targets, the paladin who can stun for aggro has the advantage here. Really there are all sorts of things we can nitpick over with the two classes, but really it mostly comes down to the person playing the class. You can play a great paladin or a great SK, and your group/raid/guild will love you and have all sorts of uses for you.

[Ennoia]

Harm touch VS lay hands is the big question here! Think of it like you got a big fight that you're going to go to. One guy goes there with a gun, he's got only one bullet, but, yeah, he's got the idea. Meanwhile some complete tool goes out there with a med kit.

HT/LoH should fall somewhere between...actually, nevermind, it has no bearing on the SK vs Paladin argument. It's an ability that can be used once every 72 minutes. Most people forget it's even there.

[Snaggles]

Both classes can tank in groups and solo great (amongst melees).

The pally has far more efficient heals so assuming the mob doesn't hit like a freight train you will be fine. If so, and rootable, the pally again is fine. My wife was soloing in velks in the mid 50's with her natures defender, no haste, and cultural crafted armor. By solo, I mean she was mobbing the Hell out of the ground floor. :D

My SK was always more creative. Pulls, solo quests, exploring, etc. Granted I did have Death Peace at 65 but I pulled Vindicator on a few occasions for my guild. FD casting sucks compared to being a monk but having it at all is amazing (along with 2 invises). Soloing outdoors the SK has an advantage for most mobs especially if you consider the pet does decent damage later on.

Either way you will be jealous of the other class at some point. SK's for the trixy snare FD pulls and invis; Pallies for Celestial Cleansing and LoH. Go with your gut and pick the one that seems more fun.

In the end people will still compare you to Monk's and Warriors for your wimpy dps. There are more important things in life though...like dueling. :p

[greatdane]

Paladin:

- Pretty good heals
- Decent buffs
- Ressurect
- Stuns
- Better 72m skill

Shadowknight:

- Feign death
- Reasonable DPS when not tanking
- Both types of invis
- Can solo decently
- Lifetaps
- Can hold aggro for less mana than paladins which is very helpful in chain-pulling groups where you never get to sit down
- Much better race choices
- Better gear in Kunark
- Insta-click invis
- Summon corpse

[Arillious]

PVE: Depends on situation. I'd say SK because the races that SK's can be have advantages. FD also makes soling deep in dungeons a lot more practical.
PVP: Shadowknight - HT is better than LoH in PVP. The ability to snare is better than paladin root and is harder to resist. Lifetap to finish low targets.

[Slave]

SKs have a big DPS advantage in raids where their spells are not really resistable or have big advantages to this effect, and a Paladin doesn't have much impact on damage nor healing.

[vageta31]

Let's not forget large races able to slam while still using a 2h weapon for caster interrupts. Due to the ability to use large races I think SK's have an advantage in many areas, though I wouldn't say that alone makes Sk's better.

People tend to play more powerful classes than weaker classes unless they're masochists. Do a /who and see how many sk vs paladin are on at any given time and find your answer.

[Kevlar]

PVE: Depends on situation. I'd say SK because the races that SK's can be have advantages. FD also makes soling deep in dungeons a lot more practical.
PVP: Shadowknight - HT is better than LoH in PVP. The ability to snare is better than paladin root and is harder to resist. Lifetap to finish low targets.

blind > root.

[Arillious]

blind > root.

The good players would just run in circles when they were blinded. This would cause the game to glitch out and you would lose track of where they actually were. The whole point is to keep the person still so you can attack them.

[deakolt]

stuns are pretty clutch for pvp tho

[Snaggles]

I don't know how well root and blind land in pvp with high mr but on live they were pretty crap. Fighting a caster with a melee is a painful experience for the weapon swinger. I never accepted those duels because being kited for an hr sucks.

In melee duels everyone jousts, period. Popping a dot heal on cool down is super efficient. Played well a pally will almost always win.

[Maurk]

Paladins can solo better than SK's at later levels.
I'll challenge any SK to see who can solo longer, and more efficiently.

Heal > Lifetap. Root and superior heal ftw. If oom, DW helm heal

Also SK's can't solo casters well at all. Cannot stun unless they have a shield.
Not to mention, until DW helm gets nerfed, Paladin solo> SK solo by far.

SK's cannot CC.

SK's imo can hold better aggro (assuming they don't suck), and are more useful in raids, as they can be part of the pull team n such.

And srsly, the only difference for soloing undead is that undead generally have higher MR, and hit harder.
(thanks Ektar for clearing the matter.)

I can solo casters very well, being that most the time, they are trying to nuke me, and by timing my stuns right (as mob is casting) results in myself hardly ever being hit.
SK's aren't so lucky (SK fear kiting isn't too special btw, especially in dungeons.. )

And as long as I have enough mana to root (3-4% mana), I can solo just about any melee mob, by moving back after rooting, and helm healing.

and LoH is 100x usefull than the HT that gets resisted 70% of the time.

And Lull is not "shit" on this server, as it rarely fails for me.

[Mardur]

LoH has saved me more exp than HT.

[Maurk]

but SK's > Paladins in terms of being useful on a raid. Srsly, unless you are lvl 59 with the 90 rez,
were pretty much useless next to SK's during raids :rolleyes:

edit: To futher sum it up, imo, SK's are better for raids, Paladins are better for the grind. Just my opinion though.

[Estu]

until DW helm gets nerfed

When does it happen and what is the nerf?

[Maurk]

Changes to cast type 3 or w/e, so the casting time multiplies by 3.. so it take 18secs, rather than the 6sec cast currently.

Gets nerfed sometime right before/after the release of the hole if I remember correctly. (I could be wrong though)

Soon though.

[Heebee]

but SK's > Paladins in terms of being useful on a raid. Srsly, unless you are lvl 59 with the 90 rez,
were pretty much useless next to SK's during raids :rolleyes:

edit: To futher sum it up, imo, SK's are better for raids, Paladins are better for the grind. Just my opinion though.

That will change with Velious raids. Paladin spot healing on longer duration dragon fights with nasty AEs is pretty decent with Celestial Cleansing & Group Healing - or at least I found it beneficial 10 years ago!

[Mardur]

That will change with Velious raids. Paladin spot healing on longer duration dragon fights with nasty AEs is pretty decent with Celestial Cleansing & Group Healing - or at least I found it beneficial 10 years ago!

And the drakes designed to be tanked by knights in NToV. Pal/SK's shining moment until tanking Emp Seru.

[karsten]

People who choose "Paladin" on the character creation screen are generally better people irl than those who pick other classes. Scientifically proven fact.

I AGREE