Loot gathered, guildies cheating

[Nivar Quartz]

With the recent server wide sweep of these cheaters, in various guilds, I think we should consider revoking ANY god/dragon loots by ANY guilds involved. That's correct I said any GUILDS, if they were under your guild tag you have a responsibility for your members, Trak Teeth GONE, VS, Gor/Tal/Sev/Trak loots gone. If you are serious enough to wager war against each other in game and on the boards, then step up and be responsible enough to take the heat when your members cheat.

It may sound harsh, but it also puts the ball in the officers court of said guilds, and i'm not just calling out TR and TMO. The days of guilds making a set of rules about following server rules and then looking the other way need to gfto, you all realize the staff had to go police for you right?.

If guild "a" had so and so player attending a trak raid on such date all loots are VOID, yes its a bit unfair to the people that aren't cheating, but it sets the example that if you turn a blind eye to it because in the long run it benefits you for keys or loots ect you will get nowhere fast as a guild.

People grip almost everyday about the hole not being open, or when is VP coming its way overdue ect, well...the time the staff spent CSIing 360plus people, then taking 360plus petitions of no my brother did it when i was at work, and answering staff attacks after the fact should be answer enough.

[Pescador]

So then people plant guys in TR and have them MQ?

And vice versa?

Nah.

[Alarti0001]

the fact it took a gm csi to find these guys..... why would you think we would know? ... idiot

[vinx]

its not easy knowing everyone in the guild and what they did personally on their own time.. even as officers
and how far back would you retro such an idea?

[Arrisard]

All I have to do is buy one account/find one disgruntled member and bribe/mole alt in a competing guild for a few weeks, or hell months, and I get to completely wipe their progression in that entire time span instantly?

Seriously, I can't wait for that thread. Let's do it.

[Nimblerot]

I have a pretty sweet idea too. Let's suspend them for two weeks, delevel them a percentage of their total exp equal to their current level and delete all of the currency on their account!




OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH WAIT

[Aesop]

I guess that suggestion really depends on how much these people benefited.
Trak teeth loot, PKT's Reed Belts, are all these things overinflated here? How many PKT's have been sold as a result of someone exploiting to farm it? how many people even knew how to farm it?

those are legit questions, then you get into what kind of advantage did those items provide to who and when etc. etc. etc.

[Nivar Quartz]

the fact it took a gm csi to find these guys..... why would you think we would know? ... idiot

Nice to see you as a leader passing the buck, classy touch with calling me a Idiot at the end.

Guilds can cry a multitude of excuses on why they can't police there own flock, but once there loot goes away and the officers suffer the same suspensions as the cheaters they harbor, things will get sorted out mysteriously.

[Labyrrinth]

idiot

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I'm with you Nivar but this kind of thing has already been thought of. I have discussed this exact scenario with people in my guild for just what they describe because me and my tinfoil hat was simply waiting for another guild to pull this stunt with us. I just wonder if the kids weren't smart enough to figure it out or there wasn't simply enough to gain in joining certain guilds and doing this. All you need to do is plant a mole and have them fire up showeq or do whatever. Accounts are free here so it wouldn't be too much trouble and nothing but a little time taken to level someone and gear them up decently. My suggestion remains the same if you force a rotation or calendar for raids then you eliminate a lot of the cheating as well. People who don't have track won't be tracking, or warping, or all the other crap that goes on in the 'competition' for raid mobs. It wouldn't totally eliminate it but the type of player who thrives on the idiocy that is our raid scene and enjoys it would lose interest if he was forced to share.

And I'll tell you as a leader it can be very hard to police this sort of thing. You personally cannot monitor everything people do and ultimately it is their choice and all most of us can do is our best to weed it out.

If you want a good read about sleeper agents...

Murder Incorporated (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/180867/features/murder-incorporated/)

with the original pages scanned here (http://eve.klaki.net/heist/)

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Oh, and a nice list is found here too of some of the Biggest Dick Moves in online gaming. (http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-7-biggest-dick-moves-in-history-online-gaming/)

[WizardEQ]

With the recent server wide sweep of these cheaters, in various guilds, I think we should consider revoking ANY god/dragon loots by ANY guilds involved. That's correct I said any GUILDS, if they were under your guild tag you have a responsibility for your members, Trak Teeth GONE, VS, Gor/Tal/Sev/Trak loots gone. If you are serious enough to wager war against each other in game and on the boards, then step up and be responsible enough to take the heat when your members cheat.

I am not the GL of a high-end guild..yet.. but this I agree with. I am considering kicking everyone who cheated in my guild, including 2 officers and all their alts. Am I being too harsh? I'm torn. Is the punishment enough? I don't feel it is. What are you doing being raid gear? I'd like advice from a real leader.

Xaxian of Prodigy

[Obliterator]

Want to know one of the biggest dick moves in online gaming? proposing a punishment like that to be inflicted on many other players, which wouldn't even affect you or your guild, lol

[Mcbard]

Are you assuming that any one guild got off without a cheater?

What you suggest boils down to all god/dragon loot being wiped off the server, because I can almost guarantee that there was at least one person in each guild that has this loot that was caught cheating.

[Humerox]

Oh, and a nice list is found here too of some of the Biggest Dick Moves in online gaming. (http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-7-biggest-dick-moves-in-history-online-gaming/)

Goons breaking up BoB was pretty dickish too, lol.

[Aesop]

I'd be more worried about the potential impacts of items like PKT, GBS, Trak Teeth items being over-represented in the population. Even if say one guild benefited it would be hard to prove that person X's exploitation netted guild A enough gear or plat to make themselves competitive that much faster, or knowing which mob had what loot, or rare/random drop on them etc.

Singly each instance of "cheats" doesn't seem like much but in the end could have a huge impact on the competitiveness of a guild. But hard to prove so idk.

[Badmartigan]

an entire guild should not be punished for the misdeeds of a select few....

In the worst cases we have been restricted to competing for mobs for 2 weeks back during the DA suspension days....

To take loot away from members who had nothing to do with cheating just does not make sense.. and has too many ramifications for people that want to set others up like others have wanted.

Navir, we all want these people to suffer more but i dont know that this would be the right answer... raid suspensions dont hurt tho.. and have been done in the past

[Kobias]

IMO, they could have done more to those suspended. But, Rogean and crew was surprisingly very lenient on the issue.

Taking away coin being one thing, but I wish they also removed all their droppable items. That way they can't sell all their manastones being stockpiled or whatever to get cash back.

But, taking away loot from a guild that might have a couple bad-apples isn't the way to go either. MQ2 doesn't kill dragons for guilds, it's not some ticket to easy mode. It is a crutch for bad players though.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Yeah Badmartigan but if a core group of people ensured you were getting said mobs and people benefited from that then what do you do? If one guy on the 4x400 relay team pops, you all lose your medals. I think this is what they may have been getting at. And what would you do if someone got some loot in a previous guild a year ago? There is no real way to be fair without knowing the truth of every situation and that is nigh impossible.

[Harrison]

Regardless.

Fucking scumbags all got off WAY too easy. Disgusting.

[Badmartigan]

Regardless.

Fucking scumbags all got off WAY too easy. Disgusting.

true... those guilty of seq use in the past aside from a few exceptions have been banned...

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Which brings up something else badmartigan. Do you now retroactively unban those?

[vinx]

I am not the GL of a high-end guild..yet.. but this I agree with. I am considering kicking everyone who cheated in my guild, including 2 officers and all their alts. Am I being too harsh? I'm torn. Is the punishment enough? I don't feel it is. What are you doing being raid gear? I'd like advice from a real leader.

Xaxian of Prodigy
LOL
if you have ANY rules at all for your guild .. and follow them
you wouldnt be asking should you kick em or not

if not, then you are taking the same stand as the uber raid guilds who use them for tracking/pulling etc
if you do kick, then L2 compete in a lopsided contest

I can confidently say the times i was in leadership, everyone knew the guild charters stance on 3rd party programs so that either:
A) they never personally mentioned uses to me
B) they wouldnt use 3rd party programs in my presence (or presence of officers)
And i never once asked any members if they "had" or "used" 3rd party programs so i or the guild could utilize their abilities.

bout the only thing we DID use was fraps.
being the underdogs in lopsided contention.. but that was fine with me, seems more challenging
how fuckin hard is this game honestly??

[purist]

I am not the GL of a high-end guild..yet.. but this I agree with. I am considering kicking everyone who cheated in my guild, including 2 officers and all their alts. Am I being too harsh? I'm torn. Is the punishment enough? I don't feel it is. What are you doing being raid gear? I'd like advice from a real leader.

Xaxian of Prodigy

Post their names on here.

[TR Spokesman]

Regardless.

Fucking scumbags all got off WAY too easy. Disgusting.

holy shit i agree with harrison.

edit: Without them being completely banned, they should have all gear/items removed from their accounts. I am certain that the items on those accounts alone are worth 3-5x as much as the plat that was removed. If Perun was suspended then it would be more like 6-7x as much. (seriously, idk if you can put a price on one of the/if not the most OP item in the game)

[Nivar Quartz]

Are you assuming that any one guild got off without a cheater?

What you suggest boils down to all god/dragon loot being wiped off the server, because I can almost guarantee that there was at least one person in each guild that has this loot that was caught cheating.

I'm not assuming anything, was just my opinion. The discussion in newer threads throughout server chat and RnF have talked about just taking the droppable items from these select characters. I like this suggestion also as to not phase non-cheaters gameplay.

It should be obvious to all involved, cheating or not, the punishment has been layed down, and I trust was discussed at length before it got leaked with added files in the previous path.

Things you can bet on though, were high end loots and plat being transfered from those characters that saw this might happen soon, but its just too much time and effort really to drop on a skeleton staff thats grinding during there FREE time for people that dedicated to cheating a 12 yr old EMU.