Did anyone else..

[Dirtnap]

Think after reading about the suspensions that they should perma-ban all the accounts, so the population would decrease, so they would start allowing 2 boxing?

God i was crossing my fingers, but i really doubt that will happen.

(As a side note, i only want to box because my ranger ass doesn't get groups. 20 Ranger LFG!)

[soup]

I find this ironic because if everyone was boxing it would do a hell of a lot more to hurt the server than the cheaters did for the most part, lol

[Ennoia]

...start hoping this idiot doesn't reproduce after reading his post?
...want to punch him in the mouth?
...wonder why the hell this is posted in Server Chat?
...really hate stupid people (like Dirtnap)?

[Daldaen]

Dunno why people despise boxing so much hehe. I highly doubt it would do as much harm as say... the drama created by raid guilds.

[Roanoke]

Dunno why people despise boxing so much hehe. I highly doubt it would do as much harm as say... the drama created by raid guilds.

Boxing removes the social aspect from the game. Have you ever played on EZ server? No one groups for the most part. You're expected to roll around with your own small army and in most cases that works just fine. The reason EQ has so many nostalgic memories for me is because you're forced to interact with people to succeed.

And you'll just argue "then don't box," but that doesn't change how it affects everything in the game. For example: raids can be accomplished with half as many people who are all dual-boxing (and this is assuming they would only allow two accounts per person). This means guilds who already control the majority of raid encounters have even more power to be spread out and ready for anything that pops. They essentially double their raid force in a matter of months.

And that's just one instance of why boxing is a bad idea.

[soup]

Dunno why people despise boxing so much hehe. I highly doubt it would do as much harm as say... the drama created by raid guilds.

It rapes just about everything in the game at every level.

Want to go EXP at EC orc camps on your lowbie? They're both claimed by someone 2-3 boxing and he doesn't want your help, go away. Maybe Oasis? Oh, there's 2 or 3 people each 2-3 boxing and killing 95% of the zone, and they don't want your help, go away.

Maybe you want a MM group? Well guess what, 1 or 2 people 2 or 3 boxing have it all locked down, go away.

Maybe you want to camp some sweet loot in LGuk? Too bad, one guy has a character sitting at every decent camp. No loot for you from Guk tonight. You can go check other zones, but he has characters there, too.

It's simply impossible for a server with this many people on it to support boxing.

[Rainflush]

Think after reading about the suspensions that they should perma-ban all the accounts, so the population would decrease, so they would start allowing 2 boxing?

God i was crossing my fingers, but i really doubt that will happen.

(As a side note, i only want to box because my ranger ass doesn't get groups. 20 Ranger LFG!)

We can call you Travis Two Box of the League of Antonican Tards.

[Tombom]

It rapes just about everything in the game at every level.

Want to go EXP at EC orc camps on your lowbie? They're both claimed by someone 2-3 boxing and he doesn't want your help, go away. Maybe Oasis? Oh, there's 2 or 3 people each 2-3 boxing and killing 95% of the zone, and they don't want your help, go away.

Maybe you want a MM group? Well guess what, 1 or 2 people 2 or 3 boxing have it all locked down, go away.

Maybe you want to camp some sweet loot in LGuk? Too bad, one guy has a character sitting at every decent camp. No loot for you from Guk tonight. You can go check other zones, but he has characters there, too.

It's simply impossible for a server with this many people on it to support boxing.

sounds like you are ready for red 99

[Dirtnap]

I am surprised at all the hate. Maybe if some of you guys stopped hating on rangers so much, i might not be wishing for boxing allowed on this server.

I think boxing any more than two characters is retarded, as it removes the social aspect of the game.

There isn't any issue of people boxing all the content by themselves by only allowing two characters at a time. As well as not allowing people to camp more than one thing at a time.

Lastly, the community here is just so great. I mean look at the warm posts in this thread. I really wish i could find more of these nice people everyone talks about on the forums to new players. Or is that just a lie everyone tells to get new blood?

[soup]

I am surprised at all the hate. Maybe if some of you guys stopped hating on rangers so much, i might not be wishing for boxing allowed on this server.

I think boxing any more than two characters is retarded, as it removes the social aspect of the game.

There isn't any issue of people boxing all the content by themselves by only allowing two characters at a time. As well as not allowing people to camp more than one thing at a time.

Lastly, the community here is just so great. I mean look at the warm posts in this thread. I really wish i could find more of these nice people everyone talks about on the forums to new players. Or is that just a lie everyone tells to get new blood?
It's not really about hating on boxing exactly. When I started out here I didn't really understand it either, but after spending some time playing on EZ where you MUST box to get anything done, as grouping up with other people is fairly rare, it's easy to see how it could lead to completely changing how P99 goes.

I mean sure, it probably wouldn't get nearly like it is on EZ, but it's still really easy to imagine the impact it would have.

[Rainflush]

I am surprised at all the hate. Maybe if some of you guys stopped hating on rangers so much, i might not be wishing for boxing allowed on this server.

I think boxing any more than two characters is retarded, as it removes the social aspect of the game.

There isn't any issue of people boxing all the content by themselves by only allowing two characters at a time. As well as not allowing people to camp more than one thing at a time.

Lastly, the community here is just so great. I mean look at the warm posts in this thread. I really wish i could find more of these nice people everyone talks about on the forums to new players. Or is that just a lie everyone tells to get new blood?

I mainly just wanted an excuse to use my TTBotLoAT epithet...

[Dirtnap]

Boxing doesn't have to be a bad thing though. If the number of boxes is limited to two characters logged in at once, then that is still 3 players per full group. If some of the members aren't boxing, then you could have 5 players in a group.

I would always welcome other players into my group.

[mala]

I played Shards of Dalaya (a different EQEmu) for about a year before finding p99. The rule there is you can 2box but cant 3box. At the high end, not too many people boxed anyway so it didnt really matter, but just as people here have described, it completely rapes the low to mid game. Any zone where people would goto level was deserted aside from a few duo's boxing. While that may be fine and dandy for the people boxing, it also presented the problem that the high end was absolutely full of Tanks and healers, but no dps. The reason? Everyone boxed a cleric/druid/shmmy and a warrior/SK/pally, just due to the simple fact that leveling a DPS took 4x as long. It really just presented more problems than it helped address, and as a side effect depleted the population.

and regardless, i dont think anyone remembers their classic experience as abunch of horridly played duo's sprawled across norath.

[Robben]

There's a reason for not allowing 2/3/4-boxing on P1999.

Let's keep it that way.

[sellawiz]

This whole entire premise of this post makes no sense.

Firstly - Your train of thought is totally unclear, and wrong.
Second - You want them to ban people for cheating, then change the rules about cheating so you would be allowed to cheat?

You really are dumb.

[Daldaen]

Boxing removes the social aspect from the game. Have you ever played on EZ server? No one groups for the most part. You're expected to roll around with your own small army and in most cases that works just fine. The reason EQ has so many nostalgic memories for me is because you're forced to interact with people to succeed.

And you'll just argue "then don't box," but that doesn't change how it affects everything in the game. For example: raids can be accomplished with half as many people who are all dual-boxing (and this is assuming they would only allow two accounts per person). This means guilds who already control the majority of raid encounters have even more power to be spread out and ready for anything that pops. They essentially double their raid force in a matter of months.

And that's just one instance of why boxing is a bad idea.

Never played on EZ server, but the social aspect? What about people who PL toons to sell them, they tell you to GTFO too when you want to group with them quite often. What kind of social aspect is it when characters are transferred among different people? When MageX is not the MageX you knew a week ago and grouped with, who happens to now be some guy who bought it on ECT.

Forced interaction, lol thats rich. Try to be LFG as a non desired class, players here on P99 are very level / grind oriented, unlike Original EQ was. Players only invite min/max to their groups the majority of the time. Rangers, and Druids can F off many times (plenty of other classes included).

I agree that box armies are bad, but the ability to make a group not fall apart when you can load up say a Tank box, whereas you would've had to call it quits without one, would be nice.

The grind / leveling mentality is the problem, not the hypothetical boxing. If people would get over themselves and group with people for the so called "Social Aspect" of the game, and suck up the 20% exp deficit, then it'd be much better off.

[Dirtnap]

Never played on EZ server, but the social aspect? What about people who PL toons to sell them, they tell you to GTFO too when you want to group with them quite often. What kind of social aspect is it when characters are transferred among different people? When MageX is not the MageX you knew a week ago and grouped with, who happens to now be some guy who bought it on ECT.

Forced interaction, lol thats rich. Try to be LFG as a non desired class, players here on P99 are very level / grind oriented, unlike Original EQ was. Players only invite min/max to their groups the majority of the time. Rangers, and Druids can F off many times (plenty of other classes included).

I agree that box armies are bad, but the ability to make a group not fall apart when you can load up say a Tank box, whereas you would've had to call it quits without one, would be nice.

The grind / leveling mentality is the problem, not the hypothetical boxing. If people would get over themselves and group with people for the so called "Social Aspect" of the game, and suck up the 20% exp deficit, then it'd be much better off.

This is exactly my point. Us rangers get shafted because of our exp penalty. Not because we aren't good people.

This whole entire premise of this post makes no sense.

Firstly - Your train of thought is totally unclear, and wrong.
Second - You want them to ban people for cheating, then change the rules about cheating so you would be allowed to cheat?

You really are dumb.

Firstly, I don't understand what was so unclear about my original post.
Second, I want them to ban people for using third party programs, and change the rules about boxing so groups are easier to obtain. I do not want to cheat, i never said i wanted to cheat.

With the mindset of all the players here being anti-boxing, and all about the socializing (Which they spout but don't actually follow.) allowing a second box wouldn't be the overkill everyone thinks it is. Or maybe they just all know, that if boxing were to be allowed, they wouldn't ever talk to anyone again and just box by themselves somewhere.

[sellawiz]

This is exactly my point. Us rangers get shafted because of our exp penalty. Not because we aren't good people.

Rangers are a poorly implemented class, so are Wizards.

[Humerox]

2-boxing was only a valid argument at the very beginning, (not correct, just had some validity) when everyone thought the server would see no more than 150 or so.

arguing for 2-boxing on a server with ~20k accounts...well...and I still see "I'm new!" posts almost daily.

[Daldaen]

2-boxing was only a valid argument at the very beginning, (not correct, just had some validity) when everyone thought the server would see no more than 150 or so.

arguing for 2-boxing on a server with ~20k accounts...well...and I still see "I'm new!" posts almost daily.

Problem now is, the population isn't large enough to support groups in most zones of EQ with Vanilla + Kunark.

Leaving plenty of zones vacated / nearly empty. Unrest sees mabye 6-8 players of level. Mistmoore about the same. And those zones can sustain around 3-4 groups of varrying levels.

If 2-box were implemented, those zones would do fine.

Zones like Sebilis, Karnors and Charasis would be the ones that would see the most detriment, if at all. 3 2-boxers holding down mycnoid spore king or crypt. But already it seems like those aren't camps that a PuG can get into, they are guild groups so that point is moot (If this statement is incorrect, correct me but that's what I've gathered from OoC). So the "destroys the PuG or social interaction" argument falls apart.

Friendships have already been made, guilds / alliances formed... this is CliqueQuest not PuGQuest, and most of the arguments against it, are that it destroys the PuG game. PuGing really isn't that friendly to begin with here. Sure on occassion I'll get a group in Crushbone or in Unrest on my alts, but more often than not those zones only have enough players to support 1 or mabye 2 groups, and if those groups are out of your level range / full you are so out of luck.

[casdegere]

I don't think I have ever even considered XP penalty while forming a group. If I need you, I look for you. I find rangers useful but not essential for all areas.

[Atmas]

2-boxing was only a valid argument at the very beginning, (not correct, just had some validity) when everyone thought the server would see no more than 150 or so.

arguing for 2-boxing on a server with ~20k accounts...well...and I still see "I'm new!" posts almost daily.

I agree, boxing is only really optimal imo when you don't have anyone to group with.

I never boxed on live but on EZ server by the time I was done I ran up to 11 toons at a time at some points. Mostly because to progress there you need to have a group or assistance from a player geared past the encounter. Since I didn't care to become a begger and population was lower I started adding toons to become self sufficient.

I would still group with other players because thats the best aspect of MMOs as far as I am concerned. However, some would not and some abused boxing to hold multiple camps at once.

I have no problem finding groups when I look for them on P99, and strongly believe boxing would be beneficial for a few and irritating/destructive for the majority.

[Ennoia]

Boxing doesn't have to be a bad thing though. If the number of boxes is limited to two characters logged in at once, then that is still 3 players per full group. If some of the members aren't boxing, then you could have 5 players in a group.

I would always welcome other players into my group.

Just...stop talking. Boxing is ALWAYS a bad thing.

[Vohl]

Nice discussion about boxing. Seeing what it's done to the social fabric on live servers, I'm happy not to have it here.

I can think of one more reason not to allow it as well -- since p1999 is free aside from ads and donations, boxing drives up costs without increasing revenue. It's bad for the server twice.

[soup]

boxing drives up costs without increasing revenue. It's bad for the server twice.

This is another good point that I didn't even think about.

[Daldaen]

I don't think I have ever even considered XP penalty while forming a group. If I need you, I look for you. I find rangers useful but not essential for all areas.

This would be the issue. Rangers aren't useful in all areas. In a group 4/6 or 5/6 the last slot or last two slots can be filled better by most other classes. Only times rangers get groups are

A. When you know them
B. When you are settling with them
C. When you are playing classic EQ where people don't min/max or grind to grind.

[Atmas]

How about this. You can box if you pay something like $5 a box. Would help the server.

That would likely cause legal ramifactions and still be objectionable to a lot of the player base.

[Vonkaar]

How about this. You can box if you pay something like $5 a box. Would help the server.

$5 would help the server for like, 212 seconds.

[Galacticus]

I was hoping they would ban the accounts, then all those people would want to roll new characters on R99.

[Mardur]

3 2-boxers holding down mycnoid spore king or crypt. But already it seems like those aren't camps that a PuG can get into, they are guild groups so that point is moot (If this statement is incorrect, correct me but that's what I've gathered from OoC)

Good players earn good reputations and can essentially get groups wherever they want regardless of their guild, because they'll be wanted.

I grouped at crypt, emp, juggs, reets, spore king, etc all within the first month of Kunark as a guildless PuG.

[Daldaen]

Good players earn good reputations and can essentially get groups wherever they want regardless of their guild, because they'll be wanted.

I grouped at crypt, emp, juggs, reets, spore king, etc all within the first month of Kunark as a guildless PuG.

As a guildless PuG warrior*

Fixed. Try again as a guildless PuG Ranger or Wizard or Druid.

[Tarathiel]

Boxing isn't classic... Ranger hate is... You should know this by now... Have you ever used the search fuction? If did you would find at least 20 other threads that all end the same way get over it or gtfo... Anyone have that dead horse meme lying around? Do me a favor and post it so this thread can end

[Oncedark]

Just keep saying NO to boxing. How anyone could use the recent suspensions as a segue to "Let's allow boxing now!" is beyond my small brain.

[Blancah]

Think after reading about the suspensions that they should perma-ban all the accounts, so the population would decrease, so they would start allowing 2 boxing?

No.

I am surprised at all the hate. Maybe if some of you guys stopped hating on rangers so much, i might not be wishing for boxing allowed on this server.

If you really are having that hard of a time getting groups. Don't just sit there and LFG waiting for someone to pick you up. Be proactive and make groups. I've sat longer on my cleric LFG than I have on my ranger many times over.

[Mriswithe]

Looks like I am going to get myself tagged as a sympathizer to the evil communist Pro Boxers....

I honestly was disappointed when I found out that you are not allowed to 2box on this server. 90% of my play time is at work where my real attention is not on the game, it is on my work with a side of P99. This means that if I were to group with people then I would be a selfish prick as I am not devoting myself to being a useful group member when playing. Whereas if I were to 2box and slack off, killing stuff when I have the time it is the same thing as if I were soloing. On live I enjoyed 2boxing a necro and shaman, and I was looking to replicate that feeling when I first joined. Now I realize that it is forbidden here so I don't do it.

I really don't agree with the idea that it will destroy the server community if 2boxing is allowed. I spend almost all of my time solo, but I still love interacting with the people here. Everyone is nice and helpful that I have met. You know what though? I haven't grouped with almost any of them. I interact with them in tells, ooc, /say, but I rarely group with people. Does that mean that I am not getting anything out of the community here? Does that mean that the community isn't better for having me who is also helpful? Does the fact that I don't group with people make it any less appreciated when I give someone invis to undead for a CR in kurns? Or just go and get the corpse myself? No, it doesn't. In the end it doesn't matter how I got to my level as to whether or not people appreciate my helpful manner and good nature on this server.

Now, I haven't posted on the server forums before but I have lurked them quite a bit. Having read a few threads similar to this I would like to address the following arguments:

"Well this is the way it is, so get over it."

Have you ever said "I wish it wasn't so darn hot/cold out today?" That is what this post is. I understand this will most likely change nothing, but I am expressing my opinion.

"If you can't get a group then you aren't trying hard enough."

This is valid if my intention were to group with other people. I agree that instead of sitting LFG for hours you should make a group. There are almost always people around that just need someone to make the group. However what about people that will only be on for 30 minutes at a time? What about people who won't be able to give the game their full attention?

"It doubles the load on the server from one person per making it more expensive for the people hosting it"

This is a valid concern, which I think is actually countered nicely by menadwen who suggested a monthly fee of $5. As for the argument that it wouldn't run the server for very long, your $15 a month live subscription also didn't run the entire server for very much time, but when you have a large base of people ALL contributing $5/month it would definitely help defray the costs of hosting for the server.

These are the arguments that come to mind from this thread that I felt the need to address. As I said though I know this is very unlikely to change the admin's minds. I just feel like the discussion is cheapened by people who just scream that boxing is terrible for the server because it is and give no real arguments.

Mriswithe

[Humerox]

Stuff.

Very nice post, and it articulates your opinion very well. I mean that in all seriousness. The only problem is, it's all been said before, hundreds and hundreds of times. That's not an exaggeration.

INCLUDING the possibility of donating for it. That's been addressed in multiple posts, by the devs.

The threads about this pop up every couple of months or so, people yell at each other about it, and I'm not going to bring up any salient points because it's all moot.

Suffice to say:

It's. Not. Happening.

Peace.

[Mriswithe]

Other stuff

Thank you for not trying to trash me and call me commie whiny scum. I realize it isn't going to happen,, I just felt the need to make it clear that the main reason for this not being done is NOT necessarily that two-boxing is inherently bad or because it will load the server etc. The reason is that the admin do not want it, which is PERFECTLY FINE. This is their server, their world, their time. If they do not want it that is completely their choice. I have zero problem with this being their choice.

What I do have a problem with is people insulting others or calling it "cheating" or knee jerk reactions of "OMG it ruined live servers." I think it was a lot more than two-boxing that ruined live servers.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled hate thread :p

Mriswithe

[Amelinda]

ell oh ell. no boxing imo.

[Dirtnap]

I want to be clear that this was never a thread to ask/beg for boxing to be allowed. It was just to talk to other people who might have shared my thoughts.

[Messianic]

I just feel like the discussion is cheapened by people who just scream that boxing is terrible for the server because it is and give no real arguments.

Mriswithe

That's because those arguments have been given eleventy billion times. There are literally hundreds of posts about on these forums. Ultimately the rough consensus of those people with plenty of emu/boxing experience is that any server that allows boxing causes a depreciation of the currency of unique players because tons of people would begin to box who would be grouping instead, which leads to more boxing because people can't find groups as easily.

It does affect the grouping scene negatively - period. Debate over magnitude if you want, but it does. When something is self-evident, no amount of reason or argument could possibly convince someone who isn't willing to be convinced.

[Juugox2]

you guys do know that on live lots of ppl boxed :P

[Malev]

you guys do know that on live lots of ppl boxed :P

And they had two buy two copies of the game and pay for two subscriptions, thus meaning more money for sony, sony probably loved their 2boxers.

[CrotchCricket]

Eh, i just wanted to make the small point no one else brought up. Considering this is P99 and as far as i know the goal of the server is to replicate a playing atmosphere as similar as possible to the original live servers from 1999.
Umm i dont know about anyone else, but i cant recall anyone who was even twoboxing till maybe late velious era. I dont think during Vanilla and Kunark ages computers even had the memory to do such. I'm no computer expert but to me it would seem that if ya wanted to two box then, ya actually need two boxes (computers) to do it.

So in my opinion, naw keep boxing off...and if anyone truely enjoys EQ two boxing I'd like to hear from ya cuz as far as i am concerned its definitely unenjoyable to play two characters as once as i feel i cannot efficiently use them to their fullest potentials, thus leaving me the operator unfulfilled and wanting to play call of duty instead.

Thanks for lettin me waste your time,
Madprops

[Dirtnap]

Eh, i just wanted to make the small point no one else brought up. Considering this is P99 and as far as i know the goal of the server is to replicate a playing atmosphere as similar as possible to the original live servers from 1999.
Umm i dont know about anyone else, but i cant recall anyone who was even twoboxing till maybe late velious era. I dont think during Vanilla and Kunark ages computers even had the memory to do such. I'm no computer expert but to me it would seem that if ya wanted to two box then, ya actually need two boxes (computers) to do it.

So in my opinion, naw keep boxing off...and if anyone truely enjoys EQ two boxing I'd like to hear from ya cuz as far as i am concerned its definitely unenjoyable to play two characters as once as i feel i cannot efficiently use them to their fullest potentials, thus leaving me the operator unfulfilled and wanting to play call of duty instead.

Thanks for lettin me waste your time,
Madprops

I agree with you, i would much rather get into a group than box. I even started a guild on PEQ awhile back that discouraged boxing. However getting groups on this server as some classes is very hard, and being able to box another character would make life easier on those people.

I think the biggest issue with boxing, and people's opinion on it, is that people assume there would be no rules to it. I think if boxing were to be allowed, there should be strict rules on it. If those rules were broken that person should be banned.

Rules like:
No power leveling your own characters.
No more than two characters per player.
No camping two locations at the same time.

[andvarion]

Personally, my favorite part of an MMO is knowing that it's "massively multiplayer". That is to say I like knowing that every other character I see is being controlled by a human on the other end. It makes the game feel massive, immersive, and competitive.

If I thought half of the people I saw were soulless polygons that belonged to the other half of the characters, that would defeat the whole point.

I've got nothing against power leveling, or holding 50 camps, or any of the other things associated with boxing... I just want it to be actual humans doing it. Want to power level? Make a friend. This is FREE. Get an RL friend to join you. Want to camp all of a zone? Get 20 friends to join you.

[Tarathiel]

ell oh ell. no boxing imo.

Hi amelinda!!!