Poll: Should the Management have been harsher with the 365 cheaters?

[casdegere]

Vote!

[Vonkaar]

3rd option - it doesn't matter what we think because we didn't "vote" for the Devs, they can do as they wish.

[Galacticus]

3rd option - it doesn't matter what we think because we didn't "vote" for the Devs, they can do as they wish.

It doesn't matter isn't a reason not to vote.

[Vonkaar]

It doesn't matter isn't a reason not to vote.

oh lord :rolleyes:

[casdegere]

I pretty sore that numbers were more important then integrity. People have been banned in the past for the same offense that is being punished now with a limp noodle.

[Humerox]

I think they should all be outed. They have no right to anonymity, and deserve the ridicule of their peers.

[tekniq]

meh

[JenJen]

Never gonna happen sadly ;(

[Vonkaar]

I pretty sore that numbers were more important then integrity. People have been banned in the past for the same offense that is being punished now with a limp noodle.

I agree (if I understood you right). I probably would have just permabanned them all. But that's me and it's not my server. I'm just saying that these polls don't really matter because the devs did what they did for their own reasons.

Maybe if this was written as a petition TO the Devs instead of a, "oh, by the way, we disagree," poll...

[casdegere]

I would have easily settled for a complete stripping of equipment and bank items to go along with the XP loss or the accounts premier character deleted altogether vs. a complete ban but this leniency really spells indifference to me. Not doing what their own rules dictated only makes them look swishy. I always worried about someone like Uthgaard coming down to quash a camp argument, so much so I would just move on even if I was in the right...now..not so much. meh~

[fohkure]

I think they should all be outed. They have no right to anonymity, and deserve the ridicule of their peers.

As much drama as there is on this server already, this would be the worst idea ever. I would bet money this is Rogean and companies line of logic here. You don't have to deal with all the crying, bitching, drama on this server like they do every day. If you think they would intentionally invite more of it into their lives, you are crazy.

Either what Rogean did or ban them all. What you suggest would just invite more headache and achieve very little. Not to mention it will be pretty obvious for the most part when they all come back. As small as this community is, I'm sure 300 of the 365 will be outed in EC...

Chris

[Humerox]

As much drama as there is on this server already, this would be the worst idea ever.

Possibly. Would end the witch hunts and speculation, though...and the drama is already rampant, lol. And outing them leaves it to the community, not the devs. The devs could wash their hands of it. The guilds...well, they'd be forced to make some hard decisions.

Depends on how you look at it, imo.

[Kope]

Would end the witch hunts and speculation

Could also make it worse...

[Kope]

Population has been fine even with the suspensions

This is a worthy quote

[vageta31]

As much drama as there is on this server already, this would be the worst idea ever. I would bet money this is Rogean and companies line of logic here. You don't have to deal with all the crying, bitching, drama on this server like they do every day. If you think they would intentionally invite more of it into their lives, you are crazy.

Either what Rogean did or ban them all. What you suggest would just invite more headache and achieve very little. Not to mention it will be pretty obvious for the most part when they all come back. As small as this community is, I'm sure 300 of the 365 will be outed in EC...

Chris

Finally some cool headed logic. This is exactly what would happen and in the long run some people who didn't cheat would end up getting suspended or banned due to their lack of anger control in game. Then we'd hear more QQ in game about someone who didn't cheat, but got banned due to in-game abuse, then it would just never stop and would be a giant headache.

Well known players that cheated and come back will get ousted pure sheer obviousness of their level loss. Those that go under the radar will likely stay that way.

Devs have spoken, why lose more sleep over all of this? Whining and bitching about it will likely not change it. Get off the boards, log in and enjoy the game. Getting all worked up on the forums just makes it worse.

[Lazortag]

We can't really grasp how harsh the punishment is without seeing what it will be like in two weeks when everyone's unbanned. I bet a lot of them aren't coming back, and those that do will pretty quickly be outed when people realize they're X levels lower than they should be. The devs don't need to publicly shame anyone since the punishment pretty much already does that. Sure they can go /anon, but I'll know for example if Perun cheated when he suddenly cons blue to me (nothing against perun, just an example).

The only thing I'm concerned about is the punishment of resetting their plat to 0, only because it disproportionately punishes some people more than others for the same offense. If someone had 50k but spent it all before they got suspended then they'd get punished less than someone who had 50k but didn't spend it, which isn't fair.

[Kope]

If someone had 50k but spent it all before they got suspended then they'd get punished less than someone who had 50k but didn't spend it, which isn't fair.

What about removing all dropable items on the suspended acounts above x amount of plat (say...10k? (Just an example)).

If they want back in the community at that point and to get their reserves/items back up they have to earn it with hard work.

[Ring]

Kind of funny that Uthgaard's reputation is that he punishes people harshly but when he finally catches a ton of them breaking a serious rule, he goes along with letting them off with a slap on the wrist.

The integrity of this server is damaged by allowing these jackasses back in the game, all 50+, all with some of the best items (that they no doubt used hacks to help get, at least some of them - levi cloaks? I bet every clown had one). One of the suspended players has a Ton Po, the best weapon in the game currently. Removing his plat and knocking him back to 54 (he hits 60 in 3 days because his guild is going to AE grind him in Skyfire 24/7) is punishment?

Sort of disappointed that I played the game properly with no cheats for 2 years and these people no doubt cheated for just as long, benefiting the whole time and this is all they got.

[Spoodowg2000bc]

some of the cheaters were too well connected to be banned outright

the other cheaters should be thanking them

[Spoodowg2000bc]

Management, sack up and execute your rules. 365 people? I'm pretty sure Uthgaard has banned more people on his "powertrip" in just the last half year.

On a serious note:

The fact that you show this kind of leniency only makes it look like some of your RL buddies were amongst the cheaters. Population has been fine even with the suspensions => Go Through with it and do your job.

Yeah, as a low level player, it's been good exp leveling with all their twinked alts.

[Skope]

We can't really grasp how harsh the punishment is without seeing what it will be like in two weeks when everyone's unbanned. I bet a lot of them aren't coming back, and those that do will pretty quickly be outed when people realize they're X levels lower than they should be. The devs don't need to publicly shame anyone since the punishment pretty much already does that. Sure they can go /anon, but I'll know for example if Perun cheated when he suddenly cons blue to me (nothing against perun, just an example).

The only thing I'm concerned about is the punishment of resetting their plat to 0, only because it disproportionately punishes some people more than others for the same offense. If someone had 50k but spent it all before they got suspended then they'd get punished less than someone who had 50k but didn't spend it, which isn't fair.

they're given the opportunity to come back and that is already unfair. it's stupid and leaves a really really bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. as for people being "scared" of GMs and uthgaard -- don't be. i think uth has proven more than once that he's a total pussy when it comes to being harsh in controversial decisions that would potentially lead to drama, and mostly guild drama (though i don't think you can get any more clear cut than this), this, though, i'd imagine is a staff-wide decision and an incredibly shitty one at that.

on emulated servers where people don't pay to play there already are going to be higher incidents of players cheating and you have to be forceful and heavy-handed when dealing with these decisions to deter it from happening in the future. i'd be willing to bet, and judging by the names, quite a few of the people cheating are oldschool p99ers that have probably been doing it for a long time now. deleting their banked $$ and deleveling them to 54 isn't a punishment or even a slap on the wrist when they've gotten so many items from who knows how many SEQ'd trackers and raids or SEQ mapped dungeon darts to mobs. for the majority of people who don't play this game daily and don't have enough time to get those items and see these encounters, even knowing that these people who cheated there way there will be back in 2 weeks, doesn't matter under what conditions, is super fucking shitty. does the staff owe us anything? no. but at the moment they're not even backing their own server rules and having the balls to provide a relatively clean server by purging those that had to get any advantage that they possibly could. you don't exactly owe them anything either and right now the legit players just got a swift kick in the teeth because the staff decided to pussy out.

[Eternal-Elf]

Politics everywhere...

[Spoodowg2000bc]

Politics everywhere...

especially in not full banning

[Runningfish]

What about removing all dropable items on the suspended acounts above x amount of plat (say...10k? (Just an example)).

If they want back in the community at that point and to get their reserves/items back up they have to earn it with hard work.

The amount of work this would require would make it not worth the trouble.

Management, sack up and execute your rules. 365 people? I'm pretty sure Uthgaard has banned more people on his "powertrip" in just the last half year.

On a serious note:

The fact that you show this kind of leniency only makes it look like some of your RL buddies were amongst the cheaters. Population has been fine even with the suspensions => Go Through with it and do your job.


I love how you guys talk to the GM's like they are your employee's, telling them what to do and that they aren't doing it right. They are providing you with this great server, they took the time out of their lives to catch these hackers and punish them, and they are the ones who get to decide what happens. I seriously doubt they enjoyed this whole process and were excited about this decision. I'm sure they put a lot of thought into it and only they have all the facts.

So maybe show a bit of fucking gratitude and thank them for the countless hours they put up with your bullshit. No matter what every decision has consequences and some people aren't going to agree. Look at the bigger picture this has stopped most of the hacking and will probably stop most of the future hacking. This is their punishment and it's probably enough to make a lot of them quit. So what if you don't know who they are, ignorance is bliss. Don't live out the rest of your EQ life in anger just move on and enjoy the good people on this server.

As far as the server population.. These people probably had other accounts that they are on.

[Lavahorn]

what is this Salem, NC? They didn't just give a slap on the wrist, thats all their plat and deleveled toons.

[Vohl]

I may well be in the minority, but I 100% agree with Runningfish.

[Vohl]

A server run purely for fun may well run for years. A server run purely for duty only stays up until those running it find better things to do with their time. Try to consider this the next time you trash talk GMs for not doing their duty.

We're fortunate they're as diligent as they are. It is no little trick to come up with the cheat detector they did. The amount of coding time sunk into that could instead have brought VP or epics into play sooner. They clearly consider the issue important enough to address.

[Humerox]

So maybe show a bit of fucking gratitude and thank them for the countless hours they put up with your bullshit. No matter what every decision has consequences and some people aren't going to agree.

Quite a few of us have been here since day one, and in countless threads have demonstrated our gratitude and thanks for the server. A lot of us have donated in the past, giving money to help with server costs. So get off the box, bro. I understand what you're saying, but...

What about the countless time , hours and effort a lot of us put in from day one...tracking, scouting, playing by the rules...and we find out that what we always suspected was justified?

How many of us eventually went on hiatus pretty much frustrated with the whole thing, but we still love the game and the server enough to stick around, thinking it will get better before Velious?

Yeah, it's a 12 year-old emulated game, but that doesn't change the fact that all of us are here because we love it, including the ones that break out with the "QQ over an 12 year-old game" BS.

Yeah, there are a lot of people pretty smoked about it all. I'm happy the Devs got them, yeah...but I'm pretty pissed a slap on the wrist is all they get. That's what their anonymity buys them, because this too, will pass...not to mention the fact that some of them are more than smart enough to figure out how to get around it with code injectors. For every anti-cheat, there are cheaters good enough to bust it.

And they'll still be here.

[RandySlopeJr]

They should of banned any guild that was cheating also, like TMO






Quote:

Originally Posted by Loly Taa
I dropped out of highscool cause I straight up was sick of going. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who made the same choice

[YoungMage02]

Two friends were perma banned for two boxing level 5s with a new-to-eq friend.

But yeah this makes total sense.

[casdegere]

A server run purely for fun may well run for years. A server run purely for duty only stays up until those running it find better things to do with their time. Try to consider this the next time you trash talk GMs for not doing their duty.

We're fortunate they're as diligent as they are. It is no little trick to come up with the cheat detector they did. The amount of coding time sunk into that could instead have brought VP or epics into play sooner. They clearly consider the issue important enough to address.

No one is trash talking anyone. This is where all of your arguments falter. The rules were stated in black and white and the devs had banned people in the past for this very same offense. All that is being asked is that they stand behind the rules they themselves wrote for us to follow. I play by them every day I logon. They had an opportunity to send a clear message about cheating but they faltered. I thought the devs stood behind their rules but I, we are mistaken.

[Spoodowg2000bc]

yeah level 40 friend banned for 2-boxing really hurting community

many level 60s do worse shit with raid mobs, big loot mobs and community would be hurt too much without them?

[Kope]

yeah level 40 friend banned for 2-boxing really hurting community

many level 60s do worse shit with raid mobs, big loot mobs and community would be hurt too much without them?

Too big to ban?

Sorry bad joke :(

In all reality they are trying to think of the long term health of the server. If 350 of the 700/800 prime time players are banned that does take the server down quite a bit.

[Skope]

In all reality they are trying to think of the long term health of the server. If 350 of the 700/800 prime time players are banned that does take the server down quite a bit.

and letting a bunch of SEQers with SEQ'd items come back practically clean slate is cool too? If you want to talk about the health of the server you need also consider the people who are pissed about the way this went down and there's almost certainly more than 350 of them. i can understand your argument, but it's weak when you look at the bigger picture. Can i two-box or SEQ now and get a 2 week punishment, stripped bank $$ and a small exp penalty? how about the rest of us? how about those before? numbers shouldn't make a difference when handing out punishments. Furthermore, when punishments are dealt, they're done so in a fashion that hopefully contributes to the overall health of the server and this was definitely a step in the wrong direction. The cheaters will come back and they'll be raiding again and some of them will almost certainly be cheating again. you can't add another .dll file and expect to get anywhere near the same results the next time. chances are that you won't see the cheaters till they've found a way around it and then they'll be back. Like i said, it was a chance to purge the server of a *massive* cheating population and right a lot of wrongs, but instead the legit p99ers just got kicked in the teeth

[Spoodowg2000bc]

Too big to ban?

Sorry bad joke :(

In all reality they are trying to think of the long term health of the server. If 350 of the 700/800 prime time players are banned that does take the server down quite a bit.

well server's fucked either way if it's half cheaters

[Vohl]

No one is trash talking anyone.

"uth has proven more than once that he's a total pussy"

How else am I to read this?

[Runningfish]

Quite a few of us have been here since day one, and in countless threads have demonstrated our gratitude and thanks for the server. A lot of us have donated in the past, giving money to help with server costs. So get off the box, bro. I understand what you're saying, but...

What about the countless time , hours and effort a lot of us put in from day one...tracking, scouting, playing by the rules...and we find out that what we always suspected was justified?

How many of us eventually went on hiatus pretty much frustrated with the whole thing, but we still love the game and the server enough to stick around, thinking it will get better before Velious?

Yeah, it's a 12 year-old emulated game, but that doesn't change the fact that all of us are here because we love it, including the ones that break out with the "QQ over an 12 year-old game" BS.

Yeah, there are a lot of people pretty smoked about it all. I'm happy the Devs got them, yeah...but I'm pretty pissed a slap on the wrist is all they get. That's what their anonymity buys them, because this too, will pass...not to mention the fact that some of them are more than smart enough to figure out how to get around it with code injectors. For every anti-cheat, there are cheaters good enough to bust it.

And they'll still be here.

Your right, some of these guys will continue cheating but that's probably a very small % of them. IMO if you guys want more punishment then you as players have to take action. Everyone likes to say that losing plat and a couple levels isn't bad but those levels lost should be a red flag for any guild to know who their hacking players are. At this point punishment becomes the guilds responsibility, they can choose to let it slide or boot the players. If your guild decides to let it slide then make them see it differently or leave and convince others to leave.

Right now your all pretty much crying over spilt milk, I think most people would agree that the GM's aren't going to change their minds. Change the discussion from "waaa the gm's aren't doing enough" to "what can we be doing as guilds and players".

[Skope]

uth = uthgaard. and he knows ive been calling him a pussy for a while now. only one way to read it, really =P

[Vohl]

Yup. Trash talking. Thought so.

[Nepenthe]

If there was that much known cheating going on with any other major online game they would have all be banned no questions asked.

[Knuckle]

this poll rocks, too bad its not a democracy here or wed see some pixel griefing much needed!

[Vohl]

@rere:I've already stated my reason - I'm thinking of the bigger picture. What's your motive, moving this poll into RnF where nobody will pay attention to it?

[RandySlopeJr]

this poll rocks, too bad its not a democracy here or wed see some pixel griefing much needed!

Its ashame that the P1999 staff dosn't even care what the people that play think about it.

[Demetrium]

Don't quite understand why a full list of the cheaters wasn't published. I imagine it wouldn't take much work and it would let each player decide the level punishment they'd deliver upon the cheaters be it blacklisting, ridicule, or forgiveness.

To me hiding their names way more of a "gimmie" to the hackers than letting them keep their items/lvl 54. Keeping them anonymous? Son, I am disappoint.

[Dirtnap]

Why are they not unbanning all accounts that were banned previously for cheating?

[hrafn]

the legit p99ers just got kicked in the teeth

[Vohl]

50% XP boost during the suspensions. My teeth feel just fine. :D

[Dirtnap]

50% XP boost during the suspensions. My teeth feel just fine. :D

People keep saying this, but i don't see where they are giving us a bonus.

[Vohl]

Rogean popped on last night Saturday) and said that a 50% XP bonus was in effect. I think this should stay in effect for the duration of the suspensions. This is a little way to further penalize the cheating players and reward those who didn't cheat.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=46744

[Uthgaard]

uth = uthgaard. and he knows ive been calling him a pussy for a while now. only one way to read it, really =P

This wasn't my decision. Wasn't my vote. You don't like how things are now? Shouldn't have spent so much time crying to nilbog every time something didn't go your way. I'm not going to argue and defend every decision every time someone runs teary-eyed and uses the right buzzwords. If anyone kicked you in the teeth, it was all of you whiny bitches aiming for me and whiffing.

[Shrubwise]

I will be releasing a complete list of all cheaters in a little less than two weeks. I plan on using an extremely dependable detective command, "/ all 54".

[Humerox]

Ya...except for:

Just because I like numbers;



Where are you getting the level 54 from? Based on my calculations the character should end up somewhere between 24% and 99% experience in level 52 depending on how far into level 60 they were.

I whipped up a quick spreadsheet with calculations.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AotlP9K_GaeqdGIwbUk0WW9zRTkxWmtXYXRpdVJMW nc&hl=en_US

Note that the 24% to 99% holds for all race/class combinations.



You might be right and I could have mis-typed 54 instead of 52. At this point, I forget what my test server result was.

[Vohl]

/role and /anon get them past that command as well. I suppose a level 52 alt in EC or some dungeons /conning everyone they come across might get a good idea of who got bit.

[Spacebar]

I voted no. Everybody deserves a chance to correct their wrongs. However, if they do it again, BURN THEM!

Also, I like the idea of some type of flag to indicate which ones were banned. Maybe like a perma-pvp flag for like 5 months or something for all characters on that account :)

A side note, I bet some of those poop-socking douchers who are now 52 will love getting back to Naggy and Vox.

[Cuff'em]

Why would you compile a list of lvl 54 or 52 players? This makes no sense, many of you seem to think it was lvl 60 players who were cheating, I'm sure many were lower lvls, not to mention what about the toons who are currently lvl 54 and 52?

It would be a witch hunt to compile a list of toons without ligit knowledge of who these players are.

Come on people get your heads out of your butt.

[visage]

This poll has been hacked clearly by cheaters.

[visage]

This wasn't my decision. Wasn't my vote. You don't like how things are now? Shouldn't have spent so much time crying to nilbog every time something didn't go your way. I'm not going to argue and defend every decision every time someone runs teary-eyed and uses the right buzzwords. If anyone kicked you in the teeth, it was all of you whiny bitches aiming for me and whiffing.

Uthgaard for president

[visage]

uth = uthgaard. and he knows ive been calling him a pussy for a while now. only one way to read it, really =P

Truth is if Uthgaard was running the server it would be shut down immediately. Shit would be worse than a Nazi rebellion. The man is captial punishment to the core. Though , without Rogean and Nilborg to calm him down and feed him daily with whatever they spoon feed to end his agression. This server would be have gone to hell and back. There would be no forums , there would be no rants and flames. You all would coward behind your tails in fear of having to deal with Uthgaard. God forbid in the old days you petitioned more than once. I remember my first encounter with this mean SOB. Rains down from the sky " *#**#&@ sending to petitions *@*@*#&# spamming". My reaction in my head ( OH (#*#*#) Response to Uthgarrd , " Please mr. Uthgaard sir don't ban me I am a jackass wtf was I thinking". Uthgaards response , " ....... nuthing...." LOLS

[Chanter4Sale]

How about we use are RL money to do the talking on this one.

Im willing to donate 25$ us to see these fucking cheaters banned for good.

Uphold your rules and think about the legit players for once.

[greatdane]

What did you guys expect them to do, ban 365 of their probably most active players? Casuals who goof around on their level 30 druid don't cheat, it's the ones at the top who care enough about the game to do that shit. As bad as that is, though, it's quite likely that the server would have suffered more from losing what must be a pretty big chunk of its most dedicated players. I'm guessing we have between one and two thousand players who can be considered active and dedicated enough to make any kind of difference, and banning a quarter of them would hurt the server a lot, certainly more than the damage they've caused by cheating. That said, losing multiple levels and all their money plus being labeled cheaters is probably enough to make many of them quit anyway. I think they should be given a couple of weeks off from the game as well, and then those who care more about the server than their own success as players can come back and play it legitimately. I do think guilds should be held accountable to some extent, though - many of the players who don't cheat are probably fully aware of which guild members do, and it's the leadership's responsibility to make sure their members play by the rules. If any guild(s) had a huge proportion of cheaters, sanctions could be imposed such as banning from raiding for x weeks or similar.

[Skope]

This wasn't my decision. Wasn't my vote. You don't like how things are now? Shouldn't have spent so much time crying to nilbog every time something didn't go your way. I'm not going to argue and defend every decision every time someone runs teary-eyed and uses the right buzzwords. If anyone kicked you in the teeth, it was all of you whiny bitches aiming for me and whiffing.

me sending that little message to nilbog months ago has nothing to do with my statement. and btw, how did that turn out? i seem to recall quite a few people who called me a dumbass for it doing a complete 180 and saying it had some merit (im assuming this has to do with your shitty 4 day window that now looks rather fucking retarded doesn't it?). maybe now that you guys see just how many SEQers there were we can see a bit more credibility in my previous statements. and how about you getting pissy when i actually tried to get nilbog to clear up my situation for me? i seem to recall you getting all whiny when i tried to step over you to get some clarity. how'd that shit turn out? oh? i didn't? gtfo... really? you telling me i'm a whiner can best be described as

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ce4w5Jm3dSM/ThQU-C-aW0I/AAAAAAAAAm4/AUmfV8CyikY/s400/pot-kettle.jpg

me calling you a wuss has to do with your tough talk in player-to-player disputes but when it comes to disputes between two guilds you're unwilling to take the same approach. like i said, you pussy out. i knew that this was likely a staff-wide decision that you either had a say in or it was the two up top. doesn't have anything to do with your approach to disputes but rather an incredibly shitty decision in the first place. you being a pussy is in response to the people who claim that they admittedly get a little frightened of even petitioning a camp dispute because you squash any disputes with an iron fist -- and you do. my point was that you back away when it comes to guild disputes. which you do. you wanna call me a whiner then go for it, but i've never and will never bend over backwards for anybody because of a bolded title and most certainly not for you. you're not the first, either. you've dicked me over before and i've seen the way you do shit so let's cut the BS. you're a pussy when it comes to raid disputes and fail to hit them where it hurts. even after multiple incidents you still don't mind showing up and still don't treat them like you treat player disputes. That's why i call you a pussy. This decision, or rather half-ass decision when it comes the massive cheating would have been staff-wide and overturned by the big two or not a call of yours in the first place. but it still smells like you

[inyane]

Yeah, the whole thing is bullshit. Most of the accounts suspended were the port whores, the tracking whores, etc. Oh no, my lvl 29 druid tracking whore has lost experience and the 100pp i had on him.

It's awesome how the devs like to keep everything so "secret" concerning punishments on the server.

All cheating accounts should be banned.
All accounts logged on from a known cheaters IP should be banned.
All cheaters IP exemptions should be permanently removed.

If they want to start a brand new lvl 1 character after that, let them.

Frankly, I doubt we would miss any of them. Might even open some more camps and/or raid mobs for those of us who don't cheat.

The devs have stated more than once that they don't care how many people play on the server, population numbers mean nothing to them, and they
would be doing all this even if nobody played here. This whole cheating scandal has proved that to be a lie.

[Tyen01]

This wasn't my decision. Wasn't my vote. You don't like how things are now? Shouldn't have spent so much time crying to nilbog every time something didn't go your way. I'm not going to argue and defend every decision every time someone runs teary-eyed and uses the right buzzwords. If anyone kicked you in the teeth, it was all of you whiny bitches aiming for me and whiffing.

Not sure if correct response so gonna toss this out there:


I would play on a Rogean OR Nilbog server without the tiniest of hesitation when pitted against your name.

There is no way you couldn't fuck it up.


(too much drama for me to keep up with, slay Trakanon)

[Bruman]

At the end of the day, this is simple. They said third-party programs were an insta-ban.

They find a good way to detect third-party programs, and find lots of accounts (including many high-end raiders, some with one-of-a-kind loot), and change their mind on the insta-ban.

Instead, these people will be right back to where they were in a few weeks.

Of course at this point people are going to break out the tinfoil hat conspiracies. They've dished out bans before, why the change in heart? Either way, people of course are going to jump to the obvious conclusion that some of the members who'd be banned (instead of a weak suspension, some deleveling, and worthless pp removed) are in "important" guilds, and don't want their raid loot deleted.

But hey, it's their sandbox. We don't have to be here. It's not the decision I would have made, but it's not my sandbox. It does make me disappointed though, that with all the rough talk on cheating, to see them cave so easily.

[Mcbard]

Of course at this point people are going to break out the tinfoil hat conspiracies. They've dished out bans before, why the change in heart? Either way, people of course are going to jump to the obvious conclusion that some of the members who'd be banned (instead of a weak suspension, some deleveling, and worthless pp removed) are in "important" guilds, and don't want their raid loot deleted.

Funny, your obvious conclusion is far different than mine. Perhaps it's not so obvious after all!

Bush knocked down the towaz.

[visage]

me sending that little message to nilbog months ago has nothing to do with my statement. and btw, how did that turn out? i seem to recall quite a few people who called me a dumbass for it doing a complete 180 and saying it had some merit (im assuming this has to do with your shitty 4 day window that now looks rather fucking retarded doesn't it?). maybe now that you guys see just how many SEQers there were we can see a bit more credibility in my previous statements. and how about you getting pissy when i actually tried to get nilbog to clear up my situation for me? i seem to recall you getting all whiny when i tried to step over you to get some clarity. how'd that shit turn out? oh? i didn't? gtfo... really? you telling me i'm a whiner can best be described as

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ce4w5Jm3dSM/ThQU-C-aW0I/AAAAAAAAAm4/AUmfV8CyikY/s400/pot-kettle.jpg

me calling you a wuss has to do with your tough talk in player-to-player disputes but when it comes to disputes between two guilds you're unwilling to take the same approach. like i said, you pussy out. i knew that this was likely a staff-wide decision that you either had a say in or it was the two up top. doesn't have anything to do with your approach to disputes but rather an incredibly shitty decision in the first place. you being a pussy is in response to the people who claim that they admittedly get a little frightened of even petitioning a camp dispute because you squash any disputes with an iron fist -- and you do. my point was that you back away when it comes to guild disputes. which you do. you wanna call me a whiner then go for it, but i've never and will never bend over backwards for anybody because of a bolded title and most certainly not for you. you're not the first, either. you've dicked me over before and i've seen the way you do shit so let's cut the BS. you're a pussy when it comes to raid disputes and fail to hit them where it hurts. even after multiple incidents you still don't mind showing up and still don't treat them like you treat player disputes. That's why i call you a pussy. This decision, or rather half-ass decision when it comes the massive cheating would have been staff-wide and overturned by the big two or not a call of yours in the first place. but it still smells like you

Theres people that are well above him that have a say in the things he does. I'm quite sure he has to balance his own beliefs and actions with those he works with too. Can't make everybody happy, however I truly believe if this was Uthgaard's own server I think we would be seeing things handled a litle differently. My thing is he doesn't give a rat's ass about most peoples opinions on him let alone those that don't agree with decisions he makes. Which Is why I don't fault him and respect him regardless. You can take the bad with the good. For all the bad decisions mistakes they make. I can clearly say to him and Rogean and Nilborg and everyone of the staff, they have done more good than harm. Sometimes people make mistakes and handle things. We just need to learn and grow from it is all. If shit gets bad enough no one is forcing anyone to be here. That is your own accord.

[RandySlopeJr]

At the end of the day, this is simple. They said third-party programs were an insta-ban.

They find a good way to detect third-party programs, and find lots of accounts (including many high-end raiders, some with one-of-a-kind loot), and change their mind on the insta-ban.

Instead, these people will be right back to where they were in a few weeks.

Of course at this point people are going to break out the tinfoil hat conspiracies. They've dished out bans before, why the change in heart? Either way, people of course are going to jump to the obvious conclusion that some of the members who'd be banned (instead of a weak suspension, some deleveling, and worthless pp removed) are in "important" guilds, and don't want their raid loot deleted.

But hey, it's their sandbox. We don't have to be here. It's not the decision I would have made, but it's not my sandbox. It does make me disappointed though, that with all the rough talk on cheating, to see them cave so easily.




I still want to know why 2 boxing was a more serious crime then hacking and exploiting the server? Most the players that got caught 2 boxing were perma banned, well unless they were brown nosing Gms.

[Skope]

however I truly believe if this was Uthgaard's own server I think we would be seeing things handled a litle differently. My thing is he doesn't give a rat's ass about most peoples opinions on him let alone those that don't agree with decisions he makes.

No. He's been a dickhead to players and people he shouldn't have treated so harshly and he's let the real dickheads get free passes repeatedly simply because of it being disguised as 'guild drama.' Now he's probably reading over the list of names and realizing that. Grow a pair

[Spoodowg2000bc]

I still want to know why 2 boxing was a more serious crime then hacking and exploiting the server? Most the players that got caught 2 boxing were perma banned, well unless they were brown nosing Gms.

+1

[Bruman]

Funny, your obvious conclusion is far different than mine. Perhaps it's not so obvious after all!

Bush knocked down the towaz.

I didn't say "all people". But it's obvious that many people feel that way. My guess is it's a combination of things - including that.

[superapan]

The real punishment is on the community as a whole. This McCarthyism has a good chance of permanently ruining this place.

In the case of P1999, using MQ meant no risk of punishment, and thus there was no threat to deter people from cheating. This is very basic in law theory (the indirect deterrence). Like if there was no risk of punishment involved in speeding, you'd do it all the time. This is no longer the case, and your average Joe will keep to the speed limits.

Appreciate the fact that the server will now be completely legit, which EQ Live never ever was. And then you move on.

[RandySlopeJr]

The real punishment is on the community as a whole. This McCarthyism has a good chance of permanently ruining this place.

In the case of P1999, using MQ meant no risk of punishment, and thus there was no threat to deter people from cheating. This is very basic in law theory (the indirect deterrence). Like if there was no risk of punishment involved in speeding, you'd do it all the time. This is no longer the case, and your average Joe will keep to the speed limits.

Appreciate the fact that the server will now be completely legit, which EQ Live never ever was. And then you move on.



you kidding me????Live was ten times more legit then this server is. Did you have GMs pulling this crap in live? NO

[TR Spokesman]

me sending that little message to nilbog months ago has nothing to do with my statement. and btw, how did that turn out? i seem to recall quite a few people who called me a dumbass for it doing a complete 180 and saying it had some merit (im assuming this has to do with your shitty 4 day window that now looks rather fucking retarded doesn't it?). maybe now that you guys see just how many SEQers there were we can see a bit more credibility in my previous statements. and how about you getting pissy when i actually tried to get nilbog to clear up my situation for me? i seem to recall you getting all whiny when i tried to step over you to get some clarity. how'd that shit turn out? oh? i didn't? gtfo... really? you telling me i'm a whiner can best be described as

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ce4w5Jm3dSM/ThQU-C-aW0I/AAAAAAAAAm4/AUmfV8CyikY/s400/pot-kettle.jpg

me calling you a wuss has to do with your tough talk in player-to-player disputes but when it comes to disputes between two guilds you're unwilling to take the same approach. like i said, you pussy out. i knew that this was likely a staff-wide decision that you either had a say in or it was the two up top. doesn't have anything to do with your approach to disputes but rather an incredibly shitty decision in the first place. you being a pussy is in response to the people who claim that they admittedly get a little frightened of even petitioning a camp dispute because you squash any disputes with an iron fist -- and you do. my point was that you back away when it comes to guild disputes. which you do. you wanna call me a whiner then go for it, but i've never and will never bend over backwards for anybody because of a bolded title and most certainly not for you. you're not the first, either. you've dicked me over before and i've seen the way you do shit so let's cut the BS. you're a pussy when it comes to raid disputes and fail to hit them where it hurts. even after multiple incidents you still don't mind showing up and still don't treat them like you treat player disputes. That's why i call you a pussy. This decision, or rather half-ass decision when it comes the massive cheating would have been staff-wide and overturned by the big two or not a call of yours in the first place. but it still smells like you

Uth has his hands tied in a good amount of situations. You do realize there are things he can and can't do, and thus has to get permission from rogean/nilbog.

Basically Uthgaard needs to watch his own back, because in the end? who is gonna stick up for him if his head is on the chopping block?


Personally I would. Dude is pretty solid.

[Skope]

Uth has his hands tied in a good amount of situations. You do realize there are things he can and can't do, and thus has to get permission from rogean/nilbog.

Basically Uthgaard needs to watch his own back, because in the end? who is gonna stick up for him if his head is on the chopping block?


Personally I would. Dude is pretty solid.

so you're saying that tough talk of "we don't care about any guilds on this server" was essentially all 3 of them bullshitting? because considering recent fiascos i'm almost inclined to agree with you.

I defended uth (crazy, inorite) when it came to claims of favoritism, but that doesn't mean i don't think he's a pussy. instead of backing the tough talk and enforcing the "screw you, i don't care" attitude he's developed, he instead decides to chicken out.

[mwatt]

Guys, the reason why 2 boxing is an insta-perma ban but the recently disclosed rule breaking was not, is a simple matter of practicality. Banning the occasional two boxer has little or no impact on the overall server "health". Banning 365 players might well affect the server health.

The powers that be don't want to cut of their own noses to spite their faces. They decided to take the middle route in this case - which is completely up to them and probably the correct decision. Everyone should stop trying to second-guess and back-seat drive. This sort of thing is only promoting unrest - and I'm not talking about a zone with a haunted mansion in it.

[Humerox]

The real punishment is on the community as a whole.

This is true.

This McCarthyism has a good chance of permanently ruining this place.

Except that the cheating was confirmed, and a more substantive assertion would be that allowing the cheaters to return relatively unscathed would be more harmful than anything else.

It's wrong to redirect fault in this to the community. The focus needs to stay on the cheaters, where it belongs.


In the case of P1999, using MQ meant no risk of punishment, and thus there was no threat to deter people from cheating.

Don't even know where this came from, bro, because you're dead wrong. If in no risk of punishment you meant they couldn't be caught, well...wrong on both counts.

Except in the case of raid guilds, maybe. But I'm not delving into server politics on that one, except to mention that the devs were obviously as shocked and overwhelmed as the rest of us were in regards to the scope of the cheating. I'd also expect some sort of response to the massive backlash their decision on "punishment" has created.

[Kope]

Guys, the reason why 2 boxing is an insta-perma ban but the recently disclosed rule breaking was not, is a simple matter of practicality. Banning the occasional two boxer has little or no impact on the overall server "health". Banning 365 players might well affect the server health.

The powers that be don't want to cut of their own noses to spite their faces. They decided to take the middle route in this case - which is completely up to them and probably the correct decision. Everyone should stop trying to second-guess and back-seat drive. This sort of thing is only promoting unrest - and I'm not talking about a zone with a haunted mansion in it.

One thing that you guys aren't taking into consideration is a developer (might have been Rogean might have not been him) GAVE HINTS he was implementing antihack and they didn't change their ways. Read the PvP boards for when Rogean started talking about it (Salty's locked thread).

365 accounts - how many people had 2 or 3 accounts that were hacking? Probably quite a few. It's not 365 people, probalby somewhere around 150-200.

[visage]

Uth has his hands tied in a good amount of situations. You do realize there are things he can and can't do, and thus has to get permission from rogean/nilbog.Basically Uthgaard needs to watch his own back, because in the end? who is gonna stick up for him if his head is on the chopping block?
Personally I would. Dude is pretty solid.

Exactly. If your angry about the situation at hand and thing it's unjust. Rather than call out the middle man. Please take it to the Big wigs AKA Nilborg and Rogean. These are the people that are in charge. Therefore rather than take such statements out on Uthgaard a lower end person. Take it to the for front and be smart about it. If your supervisor won't enforce a issue at your work... Do you keep blaming him , or do you stand up on your own two feet and go to the next chain of command? Stop blaming Uthgaard. It does what it's told... Much like it puts the lotion on the skin... Or get's the hose again....

[druziil]

The real punishment is on the community as a whole. This McCarthyism has a good chance of permanently ruining this place.

In the case of P1999, using MQ meant no risk of punishment, and thus there was no threat to deter people from cheating. This is very basic in law theory (the indirect deterrence). Like if there was no risk of punishment involved in speeding, you'd do it all the time. This is no longer the case, and your average Joe will keep to the speed limits.

Appreciate the fact that the server will now be completely legit, which EQ Live never ever was. And then you move on.



If you need a deterant to keep you from doing wrong, then you are a piece of shit. Everyone here knows what is right and wrong and also knows there are consequences. I speed and roll through stop signs all the time, and if i ever got pulled over i would accept the fines/points. These people were well informed of the rules and knew they were doing wrong. They also knew the punishment was a ban. If anything this situation will be less of a deterant, because it shows the impotence of the staff to back up their words with action.

Also I don't apriciate the fact that the server will be legit because that fact is wrong. These hackers benefited by using those hacks more then they were hurt from the punishment so the net result is still in their favor. Unless that changes then this server can never be legit.

[Skope]

Exactly. If your angry about the situation at hand and thing it's unjust. Rather than call out the middle man. Please take it to the Big wigs AKA Nilborg and Rogean. These are the people that are in charge. Therefore rather than take such statements out on Uthgaard a lower end person. Take it to the for front and be smart about it. If your supervisor won't enforce a issue at your work... Do you keep blaming him , or do you stand up on your own two feet and go to the next chain of command? Stop blaming Uthgaard. It does what it's told... Much like it puts the lotion on the skin... Or get's the hose again....

there's a couple guides and probably a couple old GMs that would disagree with you

[visage]

there's a couple guides and probably a couple old GMs that would disagree with you

Guides , old gm's? Names? Are their opinions worth anything to the matter at hand. If by in point the mafia aka the P99 staff is all crooked. The majority of the players on the server would agree these folks need a ban. We all know this. It's out of our hands. Whether Rogean or Nilborg or anyone for that matter can be persuaded to change the actions. Well my friend thats another story. Surely pointing the finger at Uthgaard won't get anything resolved. I feel your efforts are futile and should be used for more constructive things that might make a difference in the servers life.

[visage]

P99 isn't a democracy. Therefore we don't ever get the right to say shit about the direction of the rules or staff. Like in RL , VIA LA REVOLUTION , maybe you can convince Rogean to be impeached if you hate it. Tho biting the hand that feeds you obviously isn't a wise choice...

[Seaweedpimp]

I wish i could of used third party programs and phat box leveling for years and get a 2 week slackban and my money gone.

Pretty terrible. Wipe the shit off p99 ass pls?

[Skope]

Guides , old gm's? Names? Are their opinions worth anything to the matter at hand. If by in point the mafia aka the P99 staff is all crooked. The majority of the players on the server would agree these folks need a ban. We all know this. It's out of our hands. Whether Rogean or Nilborg or anyone for that matter can be persuaded to change the actions. Well my friend thats another story. Surely pointing the finger at Uthgaard won't get anything resolved. I feel your efforts are futile and should be used for more constructive things that might make a difference in the servers life.

reading comprehension... that's not why i'm pointing the finger at uthgaard. 2 entirely separate situations that we're discussing. i'm talking about how uthgaard handles petitions and namely raid-involved petitions whereas you're discussing the action, or rather inaction towards cheaters. think by now it's obvious that the majority of the playerbase would rather have them banned outright, but as i said that has little to do with uthgaard. the other issue, though, is as far as i've heard and gathered, entirely up to him and he doesn't man up.

[visage]

I wish i could of used third party programs and phat box leveling for years and get a 2 week slackban and my money gone.

Pretty terrible. Wipe the shit off p99 ass pls?

Serius if using MQ was a 2 week ban I think the majority of the server should be aloud to use it than we can all take a 2 week vacation and laugh. Though who knows how long MQ was being used. So for the life of the server we should be able to use it. Than get a 2 week vacation. Course than we would have to make a seperate forum. To many stupid people using it. Than TR and TMO would use a modified MQ and people would claim that is like mETA cheating oh the anarchy it would unleash.

[KB_Trader]

Think a lot of you are drastically underestimating this whole xp loss thing. Going from 60 to a bit into 54 isn't a slap on the wrist - that's ATLEAST a good 60 hours of grinding if not more. That is also only the time spent actually xping, and if you're like me where atleast half of your play time is spent sitting LFG at the entrance to a zone, it's going to take a LOT longer. Now, for someone who plays like 10 hours a day, sure it's not a big deal, but for someone who played a few hours after work this is absolutely painful.

Also, lol at people saying things like "DELETE ALL DER SHOW EQ'D ITEMS." I can think of a handful of items that would be considered an easier camp with show eq and most of them are no drop. Anything besides those items is not any harder or easier with show eq.

That being said, sounds like some of you guys needed the ban more than I did. It's a fucking video game, guys. Jesus christ, some of you guys argue this shit like your life fucking depends on it. Go outside and touch a tit or something.

[Kope]

Also, lol at people saying things like "DELETE ALL DER SHOW EQ'D ITEMS." I can think of a handful of items that would be considered an easier camp with show eq and most of them are no drop. Anything besides those items is not any harder or easier with show eq.

While I do partially agree people are going insane over this (calm down guys its ok, life will go on) this paragraph isn't thinking seriously KB.

Trackbots have been used for high level raid mobs for batphones for a long long time. I believe this is the thing they're talking about, and it does have some merit.

[inyane]

right, its huge xp loss. I mean, it took some of these people at least a whole week to go from 50-60.

and i'm sure their guildies are just waiting to go aoe pl them in skyfire when they get back anyway, so....

[Seaweedpimp]

Nah, I played by the rules long enough.

Exile the cheatars!

[Uthgaard]

Exactly. If your angry about the situation at hand and thing it's unjust. Rather than call out the middle man. Please take it to the Big wigs AKA Nilborg and Rogean. These are the people that are in charge. Therefore rather than take such statements out on Uthgaard a lower end person. Take it to the for front and be smart about it. If your supervisor won't enforce a issue at your work... Do you keep blaming him , or do you stand up on your own two feet and go to the next chain of command? Stop blaming Uthgaard. It does what it's told... Much like it puts the lotion on the skin... Or get's the hose again....

This pretty much sums it up. If I punish the wrong person, it will just get overturned and possibly turned back around on me. If I hand over the information on the wrong person, no matter how solid it is, it will be insufficient to take action. I learned that with zianlo almost a year ago, and am constantly being reminded of it. I'm just a peon here. Don't call me the pussy, it's not like I'm not trying.

[KB_Trader]

While I do partially agree people are going insane over this (calm down guys its ok, life will go on) this paragraph isn't thinking seriously KB.

Trackbots have been used for high level raid mobs for batphones for a long long time. I believe this is the thing they're talking about, and it does have some merit.

While I don't doubt that this was occuring at the end game, do you honestly think that this accounts for a large percentage of the people banned? How many trackbots does one guy need? Even if he has 8 of them(Trak, Sky, Hate, Fear, Sev, Fay, Gore, Tal) that's only equal to one account. I mean really it's a moot point anyway, because if you are using it for a trackbot then its more than likely on a seperate account which means the person probably didn't get banned and isn't being punished. 4 x 0 is still 0.

I'm fairly sure the average person banned from show eq wasn't using it for anything significant or game breaking.

[visage]

reading comprehension... that's not why i'm pointing the finger at uthgaard. 2 entirely separate situations that we're discussing. i'm talking about how uthgaard handles petitions and namely raid-involved petitions whereas you're discussing the action, or rather inaction towards cheaters. think by now it's obvious that the majority of the playerbase would rather have them banned outright, but as i said that has little to do with uthgaard. the other issue, though, is as far as i've heard and gathered, entirely up to him and he doesn't man up.

My bad. This is why I'm going to school =)

[superapan]

Everyone here knows what is right and wrong and also knows there are consequences.
People always know what is right and wrong. But up until now, there were no consequences for using MQ. It can't come as a complete surprise to you that (some) people don't adhere to rules that have no real practice?


Also I don't apriciate the fact that the server will be legit because that fact is wrong. These hackers benefited by using those hacks more then they were hurt from the punishment so the net result is still in their favor. Unless that changes then this server can never be legit.
The fungis getting duped with MQ is nonsense. Most people use MQ, like back on live, to get access to the map. No fungis are made - it's not even remotely possible. And again, this server is now way more legit than EQ Live ever was and will be, and I assume you played happily there (ignorance is bliss?). I think that's awesome anyway.

[Seaweedpimp]

While I don't doubt that this was occuring at the end game, do you honestly think that this accounts for a large percentage of the people banned? How many trackbots does one guy need? Even if he has 8 of them(Trak, Sky, Hate, Fear, Sev, Fay, Gore, Tal) that's only equal to one account. I mean really it's a moot point anyway, because if you are using it for a trackbot then its more than likely on a seperate account which means the person probably didn't get banned and isn't being punished. 4 x 0 is still 0.

I'm fairly sure the average person banned from show eq wasn't using it for anything significant or game breaking.

See, i was hoping your app would make it, but.. We dont want to be banned from raiding for weeks because your dumb ass wants to check to see what the next frenzy is goona drop, arite?

[visage]

Think a lot of you are drastically underestimating this whole xp loss thing. Going from 60 to a bit into 54 isn't a slap on the wrist - that's ATLEAST a good 60 hours of grinding if not more. That is also only the time spent actually xping, and if you're like me where atleast half of your play time is spent sitting LFG at the entrance to a zone, it's going to take a LOT longer. Now, for someone who plays like 10 hours a day, sure it's not a big deal, but for someone who played a few hours after work this is absolutely painful.

Also, lol at people saying things like "DELETE ALL DER SHOW EQ'D ITEMS." I can think of a handful of items that would be considered an easier camp with show eq and most of them are no drop. Anything besides those items is not any harder or easier with show eq.

That being said, sounds like some of you guys needed the ban more than I did. It's a fucking video game, guys. Jesus christ, some of you guys argue this shit like your life fucking depends on it. Go outside and touch a tit or something.

This is the best advice I herd all day. Please someone sticky.

[KB_Trader]

right, its huge xp loss. I mean, it took some of these people at least a whole week to go from 50-60.

and i'm sure their guildies are just waiting to go aoe pl them in skyfire when they get back anyway, so....

There's nothing you can do to combat someone playing the game 12 hours a day or playing it in a way that is exponentially better than the way you play it (Within the rules of course!). Just because people play 12 hours a day and get 60 a lot faster than you do doesn't mean that it's any less time consuming to do. Those guys who went 50-60 in a week are still spending the base amount of time to do it that you are - they're just doing it over a shorter period of time.

[Humerox]

This pretty much sums it up. If I punish the wrong person, it will just get overturned and possibly turned back around on me. If I hand over the information on the wrong person, no matter how solid it is, it will be insufficient to take action. I learned that with zianlo almost a year ago, and am constantly being reminded of it. I'm just a peon here. Don't call me the pussy, it's not like I'm not trying.

HAD you been in charge of dealing out punishments for all this, I'd warrant the outcome probably would have been different.

[KB_Trader]

See, i was hoping your app would make it, but.. We dont want to be banned from raiding for weeks because your dumb ass wants to check to see what the next frenzy is goona drop, arite?

:(

[Seaweedpimp]

:(

Lol this is no joke bro.

I really wanted your app to make it but dude, cmon.

[Skope]

This pretty much sums it up. If I punish the wrong person, it will just get overturned and possibly turned back around on me. If I hand over the information on the wrong person, no matter how solid it is, it will be insufficient to take action. I learned that with zianlo almost a year ago, and am constantly being reminded of it. I'm just a peon here. Don't call me the pussy, it's not like I'm not trying.

then why the tough talk? i mean... ffs. i'm with klaatu and i hoped you'd back it up -- all of you. but you haven't and here we are... 350+ cheaters and you're "forced" to make a dumb fucking decision.

you guys (them. whatever) aren't even banning the cheaters but merely a slap on the wrist.

you claimed you didnt give 2 shits about the raid scene yet you'd respond to every petition no matter how stupid and yet would respond to the same crap next week and didn't learn that maybe they're all just dicks and they've been dicks and they'll continue to be dicks

Some of us knew that there would be a TON of bans and that cheating was absolutely a systemic problem across the entire server but many people (yourselves included) stuck your fingers in your ears and sang "la-la-la" p99 has bled a lot of good people b/c of poor decisions and the shitty raid scene and yet nothing was done and nothing is being done.

[KB_Trader]

I didn't mean it as a joke. It was a literal sad face irl.

[Seaweedpimp]

I will also eat the two week ban and de level to 54 if we can delete these little turds of the map.

[druziil]

I'm fairly sure the average person banned from show eq wasn't using it for anything significant or game breaking.



Good news guys. Hacks aren't game breaking. Lift the bans.

[KB_Trader]

In all reality, I might not even play after my suspension is up. Seeing the communities reaction to all of this just makes it seem kind of bleh to play again. I mean I can understand being upset about people cheating, but some of the vitriol and all consuming hatred that some people are showing is a little unsettling. People take there pixels super serial apparently.

Who knows though. Guess I'll just play it by ear and keep fucking around on the hidden forest in the mean time.

[Uthgaard]

HAD you been in charge of dealing out punishments for all this, I'd warrant the outcome probably would have been a bit different.

I suppose that at this point I can confess that the tactless scaremonger is just an act. There's actually a lot of thought behind controlling the psychology of the player base, but it's mostly ineffective without any support from the upper management.

Playing the bad guy that everyone is afraid of is an important role when there's an avenue of recourse for the legitimate complaints. But that breaks down when the avenue of recourse gets abused and manipulated by people who know what to say and how to leverage it (more credibility from being known irl, posting negative propaganda on some offsite forum).

If it had been up to me, on the surface you would have seen flat out bans. No questions about it. But realistically, there are always extenuating circumstances, and anyone who has dealt with me knows that the biggest factor with me in determining the outcome of a ban is your attitude, and that isn't without merit. A person's attitude has shown to be inversely proportional to the number of rules they're breaking.

So behind the scenes there would have been a composite of attitude + truthfulness + severity, determining the punishment or absolution individually. Basically, exactly as bans have always been handled by me. It's incredibly effective social selection. The greatest threats to the server expose themselves quickly by threatening to harm it, and can be removed from the server permanently. The people with disregard for the server and its policies usually have a lie that's easy to spot in a sycophantic or indifferent post. The people who failed in some less severe fashion but were honest, cooperative, and polite I have no problem extending lenience to, and have never regretted it when I've made that decision.

So there is a little bit of the thought process that goes behind the persona. There is a process and a psychology to it, and it's proven itself to be effective in more places than just here on p99. But, like I said, it's ineffective at this point because people know how to socially engineer right around it.

[druziil]

Some peolpe even take it so serious they reaort to cheating.

[KB_Trader]

Good news guys. Hacks aren't game breaking. Lift the bans.

Lol? I never said "hacks" aren't game breaking. I'd wager that most of the people using show eq went to google and typed in show eq titanium and downloaded the program. These people aren't sitting there with a hex editor meticulously going over the client side code with a fine tooth comb.

Feel free to continue to quote things out of context and reply with snide, sarcastic quips because you lack the brain cells to offer any sort of significant rebuttal

[visage]

I suppose that at this point I can confess that the tactless scaremonger is just an act. There's actually a lot of thought behind controlling the psychology of the player base, but it's mostly ineffective without any support from the upper management.

Playing the bad guy that everyone is afraid of is an important role when there's an avenue of recourse for the legitimate complaints. But that breaks down when the avenue of recourse gets abused and manipulated by people who know what to say and how to leverage it (more credibility from being known irl, posting negative propaganda on some offsite forum).

If it had been up to me, on the surface you would have seen flat out bans. No questions about it. But realistically, there are always extenuating circumstances, and anyone who has dealt with me knows that the biggest factor with me in determining the outcome of a ban is your attitude, and that isn't without merit. A person's attitude has shown to inversely proportional to the number of rules they're breaking.

So behind the scenes there would have been a composite of attitude + truthfulness + severity, determining the punishment or absolution individually. Basically, exactly as bans have always been handled by me. It's incredibly effective social selection. The greatest threats to the server expose themselves quickly by threatening to harm it, and can be removed from the server permanently. The people with disregard for the server and its policies usually have a lie that's easy to spot in a sycophantic or indifferent post. The people who failed in some less severe fashion but were honest, cooperative, and polite I have no problem extending lenience to, and have never regretted it when I've made that decision.

So there is a little bit of the thought process that goes behind the persona. There is a process and a psychology to it, and it's proven itself to be effective in more places than just here on p99. But, like I said, it's ineffective at this point because people know how to socially engineer right around it.

I loled so hard. It's fuckin sad you had to explain the elicit obvious to the average moron. The funny thing is the morons will still have trouble understanding no matter what you say.

[Humerox]

A post reaffirming what a lot of us already knew and expected.

This all ain't over by a long shot, imo. Thanks, Uth.

[visage]

But as in all life I look forward to the future to those morons fetching my coffee , they are good for something...

[Skope]

i guess calling you a pussy now is like beating a dead horse.

the question that i'd like answered is if you guys plan on being this lenient against cheaters in the future because i'm sure it would save a lot of people's time

[KB_Trader]

I also think a lot of you fail to grasp exactly what is going on in regards to the whole cheating thing. As of right now, you have people downloading a program that is all over the web that is compatible with the titatnium version of everquest. The devs here have effectively rendered that program useless. I really doubt someone is gonna remake a version of showeq that would work on this server. The only reason the other one is so readily available is because it was originally created when titanium was the active everquest download method. Now that it's tons of xpacs behind the only demand for it would be from the people ON this server. It's not impossible, but even if it did come to fruition it wouldn't be readily available and kept in close knit circles.

I'm not saying no one will ever hack on this server again. What I'm saying is the devs have effectively cut the head off the beast, and until his offspring grow up and raise an army to assault Rogean's code again you're all safe.

[Kevlar]

I can understand the gms not wanting to ban some personal friends who may have been hacking. I just hope they arent extending leiniency to everyone to disguise favoritism.

I'd rather deal with a little favoritism and wipe away the majority of the hackers Eff em!

[Kope]

I also think a lot of you fail to grasp exactly what is going on in regards to the whole cheating thing. As of right now, you have people downloading a program that is all over the web that is compatible with the titatnium version of everquest. The devs here have effectively rendered that program useless. I really doubt someone is gonna remake a version of showeq that would work on this server. The only reason the other one is so readily available is because it was originally created when titanium was the active everquest download method. Now that it's tons of xpacs behind the only demand for it would be from the people ON this server. It's not impossible, but even if it did come to fruition it wouldn't be readily available and kept in close knit circles.

I'm not saying no one will ever hack on this server again. What I'm saying is the devs have effectively cut the head off the beast, and until his offspring grow up and raise an army to assault Rogean's code again you're all safe.

Actually KB I gotta give you props on this post. Well said.

[Seaweedpimp]

I have no ill will vs kb, i dont really know him that well but he says he used it to get his seb key, which imo isnt that terrrible.

I am worried about these programs past lvl 55. This is where it starts to get bad.

[Slave]

I have no ill will vs kb, i dont really know him that well but he says he used it to get his seb key, which imo isnt that terrrible.

I am worried about these programs past lvl 55. This is where it starts to get bad.

It's pretty bad. KB is the guy running around with 300k of gear, too. Let that sink in and then say he's not that terrible. Check out his join date.

[Humerox]

Kill 'em all, and let Uthgaard sort 'em out.

Seriously tho, a case-by-case evaluation would be a huge undertaking. In KB's particular case, what punishment a lot of us want may not fit the crime, but he understood the risk when he hit the "download" button.

[KB_Trader]

All of which was GIVEN to me by various friends. Yeah bro I used show eq to hack my level 53 warrior to a fungi tunic even though I had the tunic long before I had the key. The one time I used show eq was for a fucking seb key. Did I have some moral objection to using it again? No, it just wasn't that fucking helpful to be honest.

Is it an advantage? Sure. Is it even a tenth as significant as people are making it out to be? Hardly.

[Skope]

All of which was GIVEN to me by various friends. Yeah bro I used show eq to hack my level 53 warrior to a fungi tunic even though I had the tunic long before I had the key. The one time I used show eq was for a fucking seb key. Did I have some moral objection to using it again? No, it just wasn't that fucking helpful to be honest.

Is it an advantage? Sure. Is it even a tenth as significant as people are making it out to be? Hardly.

you mean having an entire zone mapped out for you realtime and not having to sit there on a tracker actively tracking and sleeping while a "ding" wakes you up to the raid target spawning isn't a massive advantage? how about the fact the poor saps who didn't use it at all get kicked in the nuts?

[Kope]

Is it an advantage? Sure. Is it even a tenth as significant as people are making it out to be? Hardly.

People generally aren't angry about one seb key KB, they're angry about entire guilds getting an edge by camping a "tracker" in a zone where they know a mob is going to pop with an automatic batphone script in it. This is ridiculous and it's been going on so long (with people's knowledge) that it's now blowing up.

Yes, you shouldn't have done that, but is everyone angry at you specifically? Probalby a bit but not for the most part.

[KB_Trader]

People generally aren't angry about one seb key KB, they're angry about entire guilds getting an edge by camping a "tracker" in a zone where they know a mob is going to pop with an automatic batphone script in it. This is ridiculous and it's been going on so long (with people's knowledge) that it's now blowing up.

Yes, you shouldn't have done that, but is everyone angry at you specifically? Probalby a bit but not for the most part.

Which, as I said before, isn't too big of a portion of the people banned. I'd say it's less than 3%. There's pretty much 2 guilds who would take the time to track the mobs, so even if each guild had 5 trackers, that's a very small percent. Everyone saying DELETE ALL DER SEQ'D LOOTS isn't interested in differentiating between individuals. They just want the mass lot of them banned. That's not even getting into the fact that the people who were using tracking bots were more than likely doing it on a seperate account and slipped underneath detection which just furthers my point that punishing the people who have been suspended more isn't even affecting the serious offenders.

[Seaweedpimp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yZgAGya-5A&NR=1

Fast supra = how to get a seb key w showeq

Slo Lambo = how to be a fat baller like me but youl still get shooshed by the cheatz

[Feachie]

ferrari vs smart car
http://youtu.be/f5S1NAMnYKM

[KB_Trader]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yZgAGya-5A&NR=1

Fast supra = how to get a seb key w showeq

Slo Lambo = how to be a fat baller like me but youl still get shooshed by the cheatz

I laughed

ferrari vs smart car
http://youtu.be/f5S1NAMnYKM

Now do it with someone who knows how to fucking drive. Dude in the ferrari was a retard =X

[Harrison]

Should have put it as an open poll so we could see who the 60 dickless were.

[azeth]

Should have put it as an open poll so we could see who the 60 dickless were.

yea tbh im sort of angry that wasnt done initially.

[KB_Trader]

Speaking of mongoloid mouth breathers with a mob mentality.

Oh hey Harrison.

[Harrison]

Speaking of mongoloid mouth breathers with a mob mentality.

Oh hey Harrison.

How's that whole being a cheating, useless, junkie thing working out for you?

McDonalds treating you well?

[Feachie]

I laughed



Now do it with someone who knows how to fucking drive. Dude in the ferrari was a retard =X

still. smart car with a sportbike engine. :eek:
http://youtu.be/CdJ84nho3_k 0:57 it's on it's side lol

[Kope]

Anyone find it weird that both angry threads calmed down at the exact same time lol.

[KB_Trader]

How's that whole being a cheating, useless, junkie thing working out for you?

McDonalds treating you well?

Better than being fat + seizing up in anger about a video game :cool:

[Vohl]

Should have put it as an open poll so we could see who the 60 dickless were.

I'm one of those who voted no. Any reason you're as mad as you are about players breaking stated game rules when you aren't capable of following stated forum rules?

[casdegere]

I'm one of those who voted no. Any reason you're as mad as you are about players breaking stated game rules when you aren't capable of following stated forum rules?

Seriously? You were mad about a post and you turned your back on a major issue involving this server? :(

All of which was GIVEN to me by various friends. Yeah bro I used show eq to hack my level 53 warrior to a fungi tunic even though I had the tunic long before I had the key. The one time I used show eq was for a fucking seb key. Did I have some moral objection to using it again? No, it just wasn't that fucking helpful to be honest.

Is it an advantage? Sure. Is it even a tenth as significant as people are making it out to be? Hardly.

KB_Trader, paint whatever picture to put yourself in better light but your still a scumbag that cheated and laughed his ass off at everyone else because you were getting over on everyone else. Normally people that lie alot throw a little truth into the mix. It may be true about what you said about a Fungi. But if you think we believe that you cheated once or just a little bit, and people, even friends, out of the goodness of their hearts gave you premium gear, you are mistaken. All of you cheaters (Yes, you are being lumped in with the rest of the filthy cheaters you chump) have practically ruined the player economy. Now, you come here spewing your BS and think you and other cheaters should not be so vehemently hated. Well, we will see what happens after the two week ban. I will not associate with cheaters if they are pointed out in game. I will not trade, group or guild with you. You mess up the game and expect everyone to be lenient and just deal with it. Well, this is how I will deal with you, I won't in any shape or form. Keep your ill-gotten loot and keep your lies, I want none of it.

[Harrison]

You were dumb enough to stick a needle in your arm with poison. This negates your opinion on anything involving logic.

Cheating on EQ because you're too terrible to find a few frogs, lawl.

Someone find his ingame name, and his friends too...

[Vohl]

Seriously? You were mad about a post and you turned your back on a major issue involving this server? :(

Re-read what I said. I'm giving said poster the benefit of the doubt - the alternative is that he doesn't give a rip at all about certain community rules and has a double standard.

I don't condone cheaters. My no vote reflects me thinking that the developers should spend their time refining and producing content rather than beating this dead horse.

And yes, I am a little bit mad. Personal attacks and some language don't belong in this forum. Everyone here is arguably a grown-up. Trash should be posted in RnF, regardless of how much someone has it coming.

[Chanter4Sale]

Think a lot of you are drastically underestimating this whole xp loss thing. Going from 60 to a bit into 54 isn't a slap on the wrist - that's ATLEAST a good 60 hours of grinding if not more. That is also only the time spent actually xping, and if you're like me where atleast half of your play time is spent sitting LFG at the entrance to a zone, it's going to take a LOT longer. Now, for someone who plays like 10 hours a day, sure it's not a big deal, but for someone who played a few hours after work this is absolutely painful.

Also, lol at people saying things like "DELETE ALL DER SHOW EQ'D ITEMS." I can think of a handful of items that would be considered an easier camp with show eq and most of them are no drop. Anything besides those items is not any harder or easier with show eq.

That being said, sounds like some of you guys needed the ban more than I did. It's a fucking video game, guys. Jesus christ, some of you guys argue this shit like your life fucking depends on it. Go outside and touch a tit or something.

This guy clearly has not done Skyfire AE grps when all these account come unbanned you will see TR fulltime in skyfire plvlin there members righ back up within afew days.

[RandySlopeJr]

Im still wonder when P1999 is going start disbanding guilds like TMO that hacked,exploited and cheated the server.Something really need to be done with this really fast, before player loss trust in the P1999 staff.

[Chanter4Sale]

In all reality, I might not even play after my suspension is up. Seeing the communities reaction to all of this just makes it seem kind of bleh to play again. I mean I can understand being upset about people cheating, but some of the vitriol and all consuming hatred that some people are showing is a little unsettling. People take there pixels super serial apparently.

Who knows though. Guess I'll just play it by ear and keep fucking around on the hidden forest in the mean time.

Dont let the door hit ur ass on the way out you cheating PoS

[Messianic]

Blah blah ban tmo hackers no evidence blah blah

[Spoodowg2000bc]

don't let this go to the 2nd page guys

[Feachie]

You were dumb enough to stick a needle in your arm with poison. This negates your opinion on anything involving logic.

Cheating on EQ because you're too terrible to find a few frogs, lawl.

Someone find his ingame name, and his friends too...

why do you care so much about what people do with their lives? is yours that meaningless that you must latch onto others and pass your righteous judgement?

you are shit harrison. complete and total shit.

[Harrison]

why do you care so much about what people do with their lives? is yours that meaningless that you must latch onto others and pass your righteous judgement?

you are shit harrison. complete and total shit.

Rage more on every girl here who gets more attention than you.

That's what you're good at.

[Goldburg92]

Don't ban them. They aren't worth the effort. Just wipe out all their gear and money. Leave them with nothing.

Wouldn't hurt to continue to enforce the deleveling penalty too just because they whine so much inspite of the fact that they got caught red handed.

[Raavak]

This guy clearly has not done Skyfire AE grps when all these account come unbanned you will see TR fulltime in skyfire plvlin there members right back up within a few days.

Exactly. The 60% exp penalty is a joke. The plat penalty (8k average?) is a joke.