PDA

View Full Version : Let's seriously just put everyone in time out.


Bubbles
09-03-2011, 11:45 PM
Why would a GM want access to TRs private members forum? Seems like he has a personal vendetta to them. I would like to know what PLAYERS he spoke to that got him this access, because we can be absolutely sure it wasnt TR since he is using the info to tin foil hat TR. This guy has anger issues (see the chatlogs that he let leak, because we know Nilbog didnt leak them).

Since you've screamed this in about 10 threads now, i'll just ask you this once: why is it when TMO is accused of something, they welcome any inquiry, yet whenever TR is accused of crossing a street wrong, the wagons are circled and the whole server comes crashing down?

I'm hardly a fan of TMO, or an enemy of TR. But i mean, come on now. You can't really accuse him of anything besides protecting the integrity of the server and keeping appearances 100% legit. Did he invade your private forums? Yep. Can argue tactics, but there's 0 he gains personally from it. It's far easier to understand his desire to prevent stupidity than go piecemeal through everything Xzerion has done for the past year.

Was Xzer up to something? Who really knows, who cares. It's stupid to keep up appearances and have a dev in a top tier raiding guild. It's just tailor-made for RnF fodder. The biggest tragedy is people like Nil and Co. don't get to enjoy their creation. And now add Xzer to that list.

And yes, now that Xzer has stepped down everyone will find something else to complain about. People will continue to complain as long as their is both a platform in RnF to complain about everything, until either a Red server is made so virgins can wage their holy war, or everything on p99 raid-wise is instanced so everyone can go out and get jobs and the guides and staff can actually get work done and focus on helping the people with real problems that aren't self-inflicted.

The high-end of this server is a cesspool of people who only get erections when they deprive others from pixels, who rage everytime something doesnt go their way, and are, in every sense of the word, a complete *detriment* to this project. Yeah, it's actually a project, in case some of you actually forgot. It's not your personal pixelated playground.

Oh sure, instancing isn't classic. Well neither is the silliness that happens anytime a raid target spawns on this server. On live if some bard or monk was frolicking merrily around the firewall in fear wiener-blocking a dracho or CT from another guild, the second guild would take their pullers, grab the rest of the zone and wipe Guild A's campground off the face of the planet. And no GM would show up or care. The planes were dangerous places, and people either played nice or policed themselves.. On blue servers, no less.. All the rule lawyering and GM involvement just boils down to a never ending supply of 'bluebie griefing' (tm) magically called 'classic tactics'. BS. Instance it, free up the staff to work on the project and the real playerbase, and let the uberguilds hang out in EC Tunnel and compare what "their" raid mob dropped that day. Everyone wins, except those so desperately clinging to the idea of raiding to griefand measure their E-peens.

Let's lead normal lives people. Enough of this nonsense.

Option B would be to just keep raid targets despawned for a month. The only way to make children behave is to completely take their toys away. We're down 2 people that gave their heart and soul to this project. It's been a bad week, to put it mildly.

Harrison
09-04-2011, 12:04 AM
Well said and agree completely.

ElanoraBryght
09-04-2011, 12:13 AM
Option B would be to just keep raid targets despawned for a month. The only way to make children behave is to completely take their toys away. We're down 2 people that gave their heart and soul to this project. It's been a bad week, to put it mildly.

Tamiah2011
09-04-2011, 12:28 AM
Since you've screamed this in about 10 threads now, i'll just ask you this once: why is it when TMO is accused of something, they welcome any inquiry, yet whenever TR is accused of crossing a street wrong, the wagons are circled and the whole server comes crashing down?

I'm hardly a fan of TMO, or an enemy of TR. But i mean, come on now. You can't really accuse him of anything besides protecting the integrity of the server and keeping appearances 100% legit. Did he invade your private forums? Yep. Can argue tactics, but there's 0 he gains personally from it. It's far easier to understand his desire to prevent stupidity than go piecemeal through everything Xzerion has done for the past year.

Was Xzer up to something? Who really knows, who cares. It's stupid to keep up appearances and have a dev in a top tier raiding guild. It's just tailor-made for RnF fodder. The biggest tragedy is people like Nil and Co. don't get to enjoy their creation. And now add Xzer to that list.

And yes, now that Xzer has stepped down everyone will find something else to complain about. People will continue to complain as long as their is both a platform in RnF to complain about everything, until either a Red server is made so virgins can wage their holy war, or everything on p99 raid-wise is instanced so everyone can go out and get jobs and the guides and staff can actually get work done and focus on helping the people with real problems that aren't self-inflicted.

The high-end of this server is a cesspool of people who only get erections when they deprive others from pixels, who rage everytime something doesnt go their way, and are, in every sense of the word, a complete *detriment* to this project. Yeah, it's actually a project, in case some of you actually forgot. It's not your personal pixelated playground.

Oh sure, instancing isn't classic. Well neither is the silliness that happens anytime a raid target spawns on this server. On live if some bard or monk was frolicking merrily around the firewall in fear wiener-blocking a dracho or CT from another guild, the second guild would take their pullers, grab the rest of the zone and wipe Guild A's campground off the face of the planet. And no GM would show up or care. The planes were dangerous places, and people either played nice or policed themselves.. On blue servers, no less.. All the rule lawyering and GM involvement just boils down to a never ending supply of 'bluebie griefing' (tm) magically called 'classic tactics'. BS. Instance it, free up the staff to work on the project and the real playerbase, and let the uberguilds hang out in EC Tunnel and compare what "their" raid mob dropped that day. Everyone wins, except those so desperately clinging to the idea of raiding to griefand measure their E-peens.

Let's lead normal lives people. Enough of this nonsense.

Option B would be to just keep raid targets despawned for a month. The only way to make children behave is to completely take their toys away. We're down 2 people that gave their heart and soul to this project. It's been a bad week, to put it mildly.




Really put everyone in time out that hacked server??? What about the players that go banned for lesser issues? What was there time out perma-ban?

Roanoke
09-04-2011, 01:25 AM
Really put everyone in time out that hacked server??? What about the players that go banned for lesser issues? What was there time out perma-ban?

Did you even read the original post?

Zigfreed
09-04-2011, 01:29 AM
Nicely typed.

Diggles
09-04-2011, 01:34 AM
Did you even read the original post?

We're talking about Tamiah. Him/her being able to type is a miracle in itself

Dirt McGirt
09-04-2011, 01:36 AM
Since you've screamed this in about 10 threads now, i'll just ask you this once: why is it when TMO is accused of something, they welcome any inquiry, yet whenever TR is accused of crossing a street wrong, the wagons are circled and the whole server comes crashing down?

I'm hardly a fan of TMO, or an enemy of TR. But i mean, come on now. You can't really accuse him of anything besides protecting the integrity of the server and keeping appearances 100% legit. Did he invade your private forums? Yep. Can argue tactics, but there's 0 he gains personally from it. It's far easier to understand his desire to prevent stupidity than go piecemeal through everything Xzerion has done for the past year.

Interesting point.

Was Xzer up to something? Who really knows, who cares. It's stupid to keep up appearances and have a dev in a top tier raiding guild. It's just tailor-made for RnF fodder. The biggest tragedy is people like Nil and Co. don't get to enjoy their creation. And now add Xzer to that list.

And yes, now that Xzer has stepped down everyone will find something else to complain about. People will continue to complain as long as their is both a platform in RnF to complain about everything, until either a Red server is made so virgins can wage their holy war, or everything on p99 raid-wise is instanced so everyone can go out and get jobs and the guides and staff can actually get work done and focus on helping the people with real problems that aren't self-inflicted.

The high-end of this server is a cesspool of people who only get erections when they deprive others from pixels, who rage everytime something doesnt go their way, and are, in every sense of the word, a complete *detriment* to this project. Yeah, it's actually a project, in case some of you actually forgot. It's not your personal pixelated playground.

Oh sure, instancing isn't classic. Well neither is the silliness that happens anytime a raid target spawns on this server. On live if some bard or monk was frolicking merrily around the firewall in fear wiener-blocking a dracho or CT from another guild, the second guild would take their pullers, grab the rest of the zone and wipe Guild A's campground off the face of the planet. And no GM would show up or care. The planes were dangerous places, and people either played nice or policed themselves.. On blue servers, no less.. All the rule lawyering and GM involvement just boils down to a never ending supply of 'bluebie griefing' (tm) magically called 'classic tactics'. BS. Instance it, free up the staff to work on the project and the real playerbase, and let the uberguilds hang out in EC Tunnel and compare what "their" raid mob dropped that day. Everyone wins, except those so desperately clinging to the idea of raiding to griefand measure their E-peens.

Wow what an insight!

Let's lead normal lives people. Enough of this nonsense.

Option B would be to just keep raid targets despawned for a month. The only way to make children behave is to completely take their toys away. We're down 2 people that gave their heart and soul to this project. It's been a bad week, to put it mildly.


really good job dude you captured the essence of the problem

Dirt McGirt
09-04-2011, 01:41 AM
Since you've screamed this in about 10 threads now, i'll just ask you this once: why is it when TMO is accused of something, they welcome any inquiry, yet whenever TR is accused of crossing a street wrong, the wagons are circled and the whole server comes crashing down?

I'm hardly a fan of TMO, or an enemy of TR. But i mean, come on now. You can't really accuse him of anything besides protecting the integrity of the server and keeping appearances 100% legit. Did he invade your private forums? Yep. Can argue tactics, but there's 0 he gains personally from it. It's far easier to understand his desire to prevent stupidity than go piecemeal through everything Xzerion has done for the past year.

Was Xzer up to something? Who really knows, who cares. It's stupid to keep up appearances and have a dev in a top tier raiding guild. It's just tailor-made for RnF fodder. The biggest tragedy is people like Nil and Co. don't get to enjoy their creation. And now add Xzer to that list.

And yes, now that Xzer has stepped down everyone will find something else to complain about. People will continue to complain as long as their is both a platform in RnF to complain about everything, until either a Red server is made so virgins can wage their holy war, or everything on p99 raid-wise is instanced so everyone can go out and get jobs and the guides and staff can actually get work done and focus on helping the people with real problems that aren't self-inflicted.

The high-end of this server is a cesspool of people who only get erections when they deprive others from pixels, who rage everytime something doesnt go their way, and are, in every sense of the word, a complete *detriment* to this project. Yeah, it's actually a project, in case some of you actually forgot. It's not your personal pixelated playground.

Oh sure, instancing isn't classic. Well neither is the silliness that happens anytime a raid target spawns on this server. On live if some bard or monk was frolicking merrily around the firewall in fear wiener-blocking a dracho or CT from another guild, the second guild would take their pullers, grab the rest of the zone and wipe Guild A's campground off the face of the planet. And no GM would show up or care. The planes were dangerous places, and people either played nice or policed themselves.. On blue servers, no less.. All the rule lawyering and GM involvement just boils down to a never ending supply of 'bluebie griefing' (tm) magically called 'classic tactics'. BS. Instance it, free up the staff to work on the project and the real playerbase, and let the uberguilds hang out in EC Tunnel and compare what "their" raid mob dropped that day. Everyone wins, except those so desperately clinging to the idea of raiding to griefand measure their E-peens.

Let's lead normal lives people. Enough of this nonsense.

Option B would be to just keep raid targets despawned for a month. The only way to make children behave is to completely take their toys away. We're down 2 people that gave their heart and soul to this project. It's been a bad week, to put it mildly.

sorry for double post but i really wanted to bold these parts for emphasis, really great contribution bro

aresprophet
09-04-2011, 01:48 AM
The loss of Uthgaard really pisses me off. Xz being both a dev and a player in a top-tier raiding guild never really felt right but since I don't raid (and won't) I never cared that much. I just want classic EQ, devoid of as much bullshit as possible. The more people making that happen the better, even if it compromises the so-called "integrity" of the raiding scene -- which of course has none since it's a FFA fuckfest, and that has little to do with dev shenanigans. On live, EMarr had a raiding rotation with pickup-raid slots and everyone got along with that, no poopsocking required (my abuse of one of those pickup slots was a server legend for a while but I digress). Salty's ill-fated attempt to "hoop it" and bypass the raiding guilds is this server's best hope for a viable raiding scene, and you have know idea how ill it makes me to say that.

As a casual player all I really knew about Uthgaard was that he did not tolerate bullshit and he had over 5000 posts in this forum. If that's not commitment to the playerbase I don't know what is. His absence here will be profoundly felt.

Like Bubbles I suspect that a substantial amount of the hardcore players here are mostly pursuing the denying of others' having fun rather than their own enjoyment, and the dev response to this isn't satisfying to those of us who really just want to have fun on this server.

I don't want dev infighting, raid-guild raging, or fear of alienating a chunk of the playerbase to kill off this server. I put a lot of time into my characters here without any expectation of reward, because I play here for the sheer fun of it. I lump all my characters on to 1 account because I would never sell a one of them. I have 2 (soon to be 3) characters with maxed blacksmithing and that's a special kind of hell to go through. Don't let that go to waste over a bunch of adults who need to start acting their age.

PS Bubbles I see your necro is still using the surname I suggested like a year and a half ago, nice!

Webwolf
09-04-2011, 01:53 AM
On live if some bard or monk was frolicking merrily around the firewall in fear wiener-blocking a dracho or CT from another guild, the second guild would take their pullers, grab the rest of the zone and wipe Guild A's campground off the face of the planet. And no GM would show up or care. The planes were dangerous places, and people either played nice or policed themselves.

Yes that's exactly how I remember it. I've been calling for FTE with no GM intervention ever since I started raiding on P99.

Salty
09-04-2011, 01:54 AM
lol timeout

Diggles
09-04-2011, 02:01 AM
Reds have to have dunce caps on

Dirt McGirt
09-04-2011, 02:50 AM
The loss of Uthgaard really pisses me off. Xz being both a dev and a player in a top-tier raiding guild never really felt right but since I don't raid (and won't) I never cared that much. I just want classic EQ, devoid of as much bullshit as possible. The more people making that happen the better, even if it compromises the so-called "integrity" of the raiding scene -- which of course has none since it's a FFA fuckfest, and that has little to do with dev shenanigans. On live, EMarr had a raiding rotation with pickup-raid slots and everyone got along with that, no poopsocking required (my abuse of one of those pickup slots was a server legend for a while but I digress). Salty's ill-fated attempt to "hoop it" and bypass the raiding guilds is this server's best hope for a viable raiding scene, and you have know idea how ill it makes me to say that.

As a casual player all I really knew about Uthgaard was that he did not tolerate bullshit and he had over 5000 posts in this forum. If that's not commitment to the playerbase I don't know what is. His absence here will be profoundly felt.

Like Bubbles I suspect that a substantial amount of the hardcore players here are mostly pursuing the denying of others' having fun rather than their own enjoyment, and the dev response to this isn't satisfying to those of us who really just want to have fun on this server.

I don't want dev infighting, raid-guild raging, or fear of alienating a chunk of the playerbase to kill off this server. I put a lot of time into my characters here without any expectation of reward, because I play here for the sheer fun of it. I lump all my characters on to 1 account because I would never sell a one of them. I have 2 (soon to be 3) characters with maxed blacksmithing and that's a special kind of hell to go through. Don't let that go to waste over a bunch of adults who need to start acting their age.

PS Bubbles I see your necro is still using the surname I suggested like a year and a half ago, nice!

ive highlighted the parts that will be on the test

JenJen
09-04-2011, 04:32 AM
instances would be cool
but then people cant brag or "be the best" however the hell you can claim that in everquest....its hardly massively skillful.

Autotune
09-04-2011, 07:32 AM
Since you've screamed this in about 10 threads now, i'll just ask you this once: why is it when TMO is accused of something, they welcome any inquiry, yet whenever TR is accused of crossing a street wrong, the wagons are circled and the whole server comes crashing down?

I'm hardly a fan of TMO, or an enemy of TR. But i mean, come on now. You can't really accuse him of anything besides protecting the integrity of the server and keeping appearances 100% legit. Did he invade your private forums? Yep. Can argue tactics, but there's 0 he gains personally from it. It's far easier to understand his desire to prevent stupidity than go piecemeal through everything Xzerion has done for the past year.

Was Xzer up to something? Who really knows, who cares. It's stupid to keep up appearances and have a dev in a top tier raiding guild. It's just tailor-made for RnF fodder. The biggest tragedy is people like Nil and Co. don't get to enjoy their creation. And now add Xzer to that list.

And yes, now that Xzer has stepped down everyone will find something else to complain about. People will continue to complain as long as their is both a platform in RnF to complain about everything, until either a Red server is made so virgins can wage their holy war, or everything on p99 raid-wise is instanced so everyone can go out and get jobs and the guides and staff can actually get work done and focus on helping the people with real problems that aren't self-inflicted.

The high-end of this server is a cesspool of people who only get erections when they deprive others from pixels, who rage everytime something doesnt go their way, and are, in every sense of the word, a complete *detriment* to this project. Yeah, it's actually a project, in case some of you actually forgot. It's not your personal pixelated playground.

Oh sure, instancing isn't classic. Well neither is the silliness that happens anytime a raid target spawns on this server. On live if some bard or monk was frolicking merrily around the firewall in fear wiener-blocking a dracho or CT from another guild, the second guild would take their pullers, grab the rest of the zone and wipe Guild A's campground off the face of the planet. And no GM would show up or care. The planes were dangerous places, and people either played nice or policed themselves.. On blue servers, no less.. All the rule lawyering and GM involvement just boils down to a never ending supply of 'bluebie griefing' (tm) magically called 'classic tactics'. BS. Instance it, free up the staff to work on the project and the real playerbase, and let the uberguilds hang out in EC Tunnel and compare what "their" raid mob dropped that day. Everyone wins, except those so desperately clinging to the idea of raiding to griefand measure their E-peens.

Let's lead normal lives people. Enough of this nonsense.

Option B would be to just keep raid targets despawned for a month. The only way to make children behave is to completely take their toys away. We're down 2 people that gave their heart and soul to this project. It's been a bad week, to put it mildly.

I'm down with the business.

Kruel
09-04-2011, 07:41 AM
Since you've screamed this in about 10 threads now, i'll just ask you this once: why is it when TMO is accused of something, they welcome any inquiry, yet whenever TR is accused of crossing a street wrong, the wagons are circled and the whole server comes crashing down?

I'm hardly a fan of TMO, or an enemy of TR. But i mean, come on now. You can't really accuse him of anything besides protecting the integrity of the server and keeping appearances 100% legit. Did he invade your private forums? Yep. Can argue tactics, but there's 0 he gains personally from it. It's far easier to understand his desire to prevent stupidity than go piecemeal through everything Xzerion has done for the past year.

Was Xzer up to something? Who really knows, who cares. It's stupid to keep up appearances and have a dev in a top tier raiding guild. It's just tailor-made for RnF fodder. The biggest tragedy is people like Nil and Co. don't get to enjoy their creation. And now add Xzer to that list.

And yes, now that Xzer has stepped down everyone will find something else to complain about. People will continue to complain as long as their is both a platform in RnF to complain about everything, until either a Red server is made so virgins can wage their holy war, or everything on p99 raid-wise is instanced so everyone can go out and get jobs and the guides and staff can actually get work done and focus on helping the people with real problems that aren't self-inflicted.

The high-end of this server is a cesspool of people who only get erections when they deprive others from pixels, who rage everytime something doesnt go their way, and are, in every sense of the word, a complete *detriment* to this project. Yeah, it's actually a project, in case some of you actually forgot. It's not your personal pixelated playground.

Oh sure, instancing isn't classic. Well neither is the silliness that happens anytime a raid target spawns on this server. On live if some bard or monk was frolicking merrily around the firewall in fear wiener-blocking a dracho or CT from another guild, the second guild would take their pullers, grab the rest of the zone and wipe Guild A's campground off the face of the planet. And no GM would show up or care. The planes were dangerous places, and people either played nice or policed themselves.. On blue servers, no less.. All the rule lawyering and GM involvement just boils down to a never ending supply of 'bluebie griefing' (tm) magically called 'classic tactics'. BS. Instance it, free up the staff to work on the project and the real playerbase, and let the uberguilds hang out in EC Tunnel and compare what "their" raid mob dropped that day. Everyone wins, except those so desperately clinging to the idea of raiding to griefand measure their E-peens.

Let's lead normal lives people. Enough of this nonsense.

Option B would be to just keep raid targets despawned for a month. The only way to make children behave is to completely take their toys away. We're down 2 people that gave their heart and soul to this project. It's been a bad week, to put it mildly.

I agree with most of your points, well written. Without starting an arguement because that is not my intent here..IF Xzerion posted logs of TMOs private forum i would loose all respect for him. There are certain boundries and lines you wouldnt expect a person to cross while they have such a huge amount of authority. That said i agree with most of your other points.

Amelinda
09-04-2011, 08:54 AM
The high-end of this server is a cesspool of people who only get erections when they deprive others from pixels, who rage everytime something doesnt go their way, and are, in every sense of the word, a complete *detriment* to this project. Yeah, it's actually a project, in case some of you actually forgot. It's not your personal pixelated playground.
i think this was my favorite part because from my standpoint this is soooo super true. it makes me sad. :(

Option B would be to just keep raid targets despawned for a month. The only way to make children behave is to completely take their toys away.
i have to say. i am a fan of this idea.

We're down 2 people that gave their heart and soul to this project. It's been a bad week, to put it mildly.

:(

Anger
09-04-2011, 08:59 AM
We're down 2 people that gave their heart and soul to this project. It's been a bad week, to put it mildly.

Agreed. Uth (while not necessarily always the most popular gent on the server) was a no-nonsense no bullshit kinda guy. That's what this server needs many times.

As for Xz, I think alot of the drama with him could have been resolved simply by him stepping down from leading IB a long time ago. Hell, he could even reroll as a "new developer" now with a completely new name and no ties to TR and nobody would be any the wiser.

Tycko
09-04-2011, 11:04 AM
Poopsocking a raid mob for a 3 day window every 3 days sucks.

Spoodowg2000bc
09-04-2011, 03:19 PM
Since you've screamed this in about 10 threads now, i'll just ask you this once: why is it when TMO is accused of something, they welcome any inquiry, yet whenever TR is accused of crossing a street wrong, the wagons are circled and the whole server comes crashing down?

I'm hardly a fan of TMO, or an enemy of TR. But i mean, come on now. You can't really accuse him of anything besides protecting the integrity of the server and keeping appearances 100% legit. Did he invade your private forums? Yep. Can argue tactics, but there's 0 he gains personally from it. It's far easier to understand his desire to prevent stupidity than go piecemeal through everything Xzerion has done for the past year.

Was Xzer up to something? Who really knows, who cares. It's stupid to keep up appearances and have a dev in a top tier raiding guild. It's just tailor-made for RnF fodder. The biggest tragedy is people like Nil and Co. don't get to enjoy their creation. And now add Xzer to that list.

And yes, now that Xzer has stepped down everyone will find something else to complain about. People will continue to complain as long as their is both a platform in RnF to complain about everything, until either a Red server is made so virgins can wage their holy war, or everything on p99 raid-wise is instanced so everyone can go out and get jobs and the guides and staff can actually get work done and focus on helping the people with real problems that aren't self-inflicted.

The high-end of this server is a cesspool of people who only get erections when they deprive others from pixels, who rage everytime something doesnt go their way, and are, in every sense of the word, a complete *detriment* to this project. Yeah, it's actually a project, in case some of you actually forgot. It's not your personal pixelated playground.

Oh sure, instancing isn't classic. Well neither is the silliness that happens anytime a raid target spawns on this server. On live if some bard or monk was frolicking merrily around the firewall in fear wiener-blocking a dracho or CT from another guild, the second guild would take their pullers, grab the rest of the zone and wipe Guild A's campground off the face of the planet. And no GM would show up or care. The planes were dangerous places, and people either played nice or policed themselves.. On blue servers, no less.. All the rule lawyering and GM involvement just boils down to a never ending supply of 'bluebie griefing' (tm) magically called 'classic tactics'. BS. Instance it, free up the staff to work on the project and the real playerbase, and let the uberguilds hang out in EC Tunnel and compare what "their" raid mob dropped that day. Everyone wins, except those so desperately clinging to the idea of raiding to griefand measure their E-peens.

Let's lead normal lives people. Enough of this nonsense.

Option B would be to just keep raid targets despawned for a month. The only way to make children behave is to completely take their toys away. We're down 2 people that gave their heart and soul to this project. It's been a bad week, to put it mildly.

The main nostalgia of Everquest is griefing others, guild fighting, etc.

It's not the best-made game, but it was one of the most entertaining in terms of being a competitive player-vs-player-via-enemy game (ie softcore PvP where you grief others through PvE).

What are your best EQ memories? Mine were shit like kiting raid mobs around for hours, training people, shit talk.

What's the point of an MMORPG? Oneupmanship. If you instance everything, it just becomes a matter of who can look up/best remember how to kill raid mobs, which is going to get boring as fast as WoW did for people. We've all killed this shit before; that's not what we care about. We want to kill the shit so that some one else can't.

Barkingturtle
09-04-2011, 03:28 PM
What are your best EQ memories? Mine were shit like kiting raid mobs around for hours, training people, shit talk.

What's the point of an MMORPG? Oneupmanship. If you instance everything, it just becomes a matter of who can look up/best remember how to kill raid mobs, which is going to get boring as fast as WoW did for people. We've all killed this shit before; that's not what we care about. We want to kill the shit so that some one else can't.

You're a sociopath.

To myself and I imagine many others, EQ was less about competition and more about cooperation.

aerokella
09-04-2011, 03:37 PM
You're a sociopath.

To myself and I imagine many others, EQ was less about competition and more about cooperation.

^

Acillatem
09-04-2011, 03:48 PM
Funny all of my favorite EQ memories involved the people I played the game with - my in-game compadres.

I played on a PvP server, and I don't sit here and think back "man I fukin kicked his ass good!" I had my arch-nemesis etc, but 99% of my memories include things like getting my friends their epic, certain people in guild I've met in RL and havin a beer or 2 with them, running around the Karanas in my teens with Led Zeppelin's Houses of the Holy Album played constantly for days on end lol.

/shrug Maybe I'm the odd one out - but rarely do I look back with satisfaction upon the negative shit that happened.

porigromus
09-04-2011, 03:54 PM
Since you've screamed this in about 10 threads now, i'll just ask you this once: why is it when TMO is accused of something, they welcome any inquiry, yet whenever TR is accused of crossing a street wrong, the wagons are circled and the whole server comes crashing down?

I'm hardly a fan of TMO, or an enemy of TR. But i mean, come on now. You can't really accuse him of anything besides protecting the integrity of the server and keeping appearances 100% legit. Did he invade your private forums? Yep. Can argue tactics, but there's 0 he gains personally from it. It's far easier to understand his desire to prevent stupidity than go piecemeal through everything Xzerion has done for the past year.

Was Xzer up to something? Who really knows, who cares. It's stupid to keep up appearances and have a dev in a top tier raiding guild. It's just tailor-made for RnF fodder. The biggest tragedy is people like Nil and Co. don't get to enjoy their creation. And now add Xzer to that list.

And yes, now that Xzer has stepped down everyone will find something else to complain about. People will continue to complain as long as their is both a platform in RnF to complain about everything, until either a Red server is made so virgins can wage their holy war, or everything on p99 raid-wise is instanced so everyone can go out and get jobs and the guides and staff can actually get work done and focus on helping the people with real problems that aren't self-inflicted.

The high-end of this server is a cesspool of people who only get erections when they deprive others from pixels, who rage everytime something doesnt go their way, and are, in every sense of the word, a complete *detriment* to this project. Yeah, it's actually a project, in case some of you actually forgot. It's not your personal pixelated playground.

Oh sure, instancing isn't classic. Well neither is the silliness that happens anytime a raid target spawns on this server. On live if some bard or monk was frolicking merrily around the firewall in fear wiener-blocking a dracho or CT from another guild, the second guild would take their pullers, grab the rest of the zone and wipe Guild A's campground off the face of the planet. And no GM would show up or care. The planes were dangerous places, and people either played nice or policed themselves.. On blue servers, no less.. All the rule lawyering and GM involvement just boils down to a never ending supply of 'bluebie griefing' (tm) magically called 'classic tactics'. BS. Instance it, free up the staff to work on the project and the real playerbase, and let the uberguilds hang out in EC Tunnel and compare what "their" raid mob dropped that day. Everyone wins, except those so desperately clinging to the idea of raiding to griefand measure their E-peens.

Let's lead normal lives people. Enough of this nonsense.

Option B would be to just keep raid targets despawned for a month. The only way to make children behave is to completely take their toys away. We're down 2 people that gave their heart and soul to this project. It's been a bad week, to put it mildly.

I vote yes, us more casual players are the ones being hurt by this. The GMs have to hear wine after wine from the top 2% of the population all the time. Most people don't raid. I would enjoy a raid here and there like the old days after the high end guilds had their fun with them. I like being behind in raid targets with a nice little friendly guild.

So instance them, and make the loot drop very rare, make it so it only drops .005% or something crazy like that of the time so the people crying can be in their instance farming for years.

Harrison
09-04-2011, 03:57 PM
The main nostalgia of Everquest is griefing others, guild fighting, etc.

It's not the best-made game, but it was one of the most entertaining in terms of being a competitive player-vs-player-via-enemy game (ie softcore PvP where you grief others through PvE).

What are your best EQ memories? Mine were shit like kiting raid mobs around for hours, training people, shit talk.

What's the point of an MMORPG? Oneupmanship. If you instance everything, it just becomes a matter of who can look up/best remember how to kill raid mobs, which is going to get boring as fast as WoW did for people. We've all killed this shit before; that's not what we care about. We want to kill the shit so that some one else can't.

You're pretty much what's wrong with multiplayer gaming.

Duie
09-04-2011, 04:18 PM
Funny because My fondest memories of Live was when Crush pulled us out middle of a ToV raid to help this cleric in a casual guild called the Mithil Heart Brigade, Complete her epic.
See We were the top guild and we wanted to have first shot, But instead of using our mussle, We came to an agreement with the smaller guilds on the server.

We would get first shot at any epic peice off any Raid mob. in Return We will stay out of smaller guilds way and help anytime on anything that we were called to help with. Crush kept his word.

See the difrence on here to compaired to Tribunal is, While we flamed the shit out of each other, We also had the integraty to make sure the server thrived.

Bubbles
09-04-2011, 04:45 PM
I agree with most of your points, well written. Without starting an arguement because that is not my intent here..IF Xzerion posted logs of TMOs private forum i would loose all respect for him. There are certain boundries and lines you wouldnt expect a person to cross while they have such a huge amount of authority. That said i agree with most of your other points.

No need to argue at all. Uth wouldn't care about your respect, he was keeping things on the up and up. Xzerion would need it because he was keeping up appearances while leading a raiding guild on the server. Whether Uth did the right things or not is immaterial. Either way, Xzer was crippled by the fact that he's both playing and developing, with a huge target across his forehead.

/shrug. Moot points now, really. Obviously Uth could have approached things differently, but you also live in a country where police break the law to enforce it and the military has even more leniancy than that when it comes to keeping order. Either way, we live and learn (or not learn) and move on from where we are now. :)

mokfarg
09-04-2011, 07:31 PM
I even wonder if it would be technically possible to make dungeon/raid instances in EQemu? That would be a feat for sure to accomplish. They would have to drastically lower the drop rate of the loot off the boss mobs.

Spoodowg2000bc
09-04-2011, 09:40 PM
You're a sociopath.

To myself and I imagine many others, EQ was less about competition and more about cooperation.

I guess it's a good chat room while you sit around and do nothing for the majority of the game.

Torven
09-04-2011, 09:43 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Uthgaard claim to have access to both TR and TMO's forums?

soup
09-04-2011, 10:26 PM
I even wonder if it would be technically possible to make dungeon/raid instances in EQemu? That would be a feat for sure to accomplish. They would have to drastically lower the drop rate of the loot off the boss mobs.

Certainly possible. Go take a look at the EZ server.

It wont happen here, but yes, it is possible.

The real solution is for people to stop acting like they're still in high school/middle school and to fucking be somewhat reasonable to each other, but that's not going to happen either. Nilbog deciding to say "Fuck you all, you're worthless." and locking the server to everyone is far more likely than people actually not acting like douche bags anymore (and Nilbog deciding to do that is a pretty far fetched, remote possibility)

soup
09-04-2011, 10:28 PM
I mean, we have grown fucking adults doing this shit now. It's not a bunch of teens in high/middle school doing this. It's grown fucking adults. The behavior of a lot of people here is terribly pathetic.

citizen1080
09-05-2011, 12:23 AM
I mean, we have grown fucking adults doing this shit now. It's not a bunch of teens in high/middle school doing this. It's grown fucking adults. The behavior of a lot of people here is terribly pathetic.

This



Grow the Fuck up

bakkily
09-05-2011, 05:57 AM
I mean, we have grown fucking adults doing this shit now. It's not a bunch of teens in high/middle school doing this. It's grown fucking adults. The behavior of a lot of people here is terribly pathetic.

yea, i agree, and to the post above me saying grow up, heh ok

he's making a point saying that we all play like punk teenagers in a way

but the mentality of the majority is sadly dissapointing, not all, but most

stormlord
09-05-2011, 12:45 PM
I don't think instancing should be used as a solution and here's why...

a) It would increase the influx of raid items into the economy
b) EQ was developed with the raid limits in mind

Whether we like it or not, the raid limits were probably intentional. Just like how some items were no drop or some items were expensive or how named didn't pop whenever we wanted them too.

Now, whether it's a good idea or not to limit the rate of incoming raid items by having a limited number of raid targets AND a long spawn time, THAT is a question for another project.

If we...
* instance raids
* add more of them by creating additional zones/spawns
* decrease spawn times
* increase the number of items per loot
* some other method

...to increase raid item accessibility for guilds (with some methods, like decreased spawn time, having the caveat that GM's and players will restrict their play so that other guilds have a chance to kill the raid targets), then we must also account for the increased abundance of raid items in the economy and how that will change the game.

EQ was not made with that in mind. So, if there're going to be more raid items or more ability for people to raid then it's likely that the rest of the game would have to be altered in some way to accommodate it.

Ofc, changing EQ as it was to fit our desires is not what p1999 is about.

I have a million things I'd like to change and could go on and on about it, but to have at least one server that attempts to be true to history is too valuable to me. First, it serves as a recording of what was and is useful when trying to retrace what we did and trying to figure out where we went from there and which is the best course to take when resolving old problems. Second, it's a source of nostalgia for many of us to go back in time and to see some of the things we didn't get a chance to see the first time around. It's like having a second chance to relive history.

The server is not a huge success, as the live servers routinely had 2000 or more players on them, but we are able to marshal 700+ at peak times. That far exceeds the other eq emulated servers when considering that boxing is a ban-able offense here. IMHO, interest for this server would be a lot greater if it was actively supported by SOE rather than opposed. But, essentially, I don't believe any failures in the raiding scene are reason enough to change the game.

And another issue is that most people aren't raiders. And we all know EQ classic is OLD. Not everything about it is fun or engaging. Like I said, there're many things that could be improved. But to be honest, it's a carcass - not worth it.

If most people raided then a change like this would be implemented almost immediately. Take travel/communication, for example. Everyone needs to do this things. So back when the population was lower there was an obvious need for global chat, even though that was not how EQ was during that point in time. When the population was higher, the server decided to remove global chat until global chat channels were introduced OR the population fell too low again before chat channels are implemented. It's the majority that matters because anytime you change hte game you risk losing some of yoru population. If you go with a minority and change hte game you risk losing your majority. It's basic, simple logic.

I know I've made some baseless assertions here, but we all do. Thanks for reading.

ownrage
09-05-2011, 01:11 PM
I'll post my instancing idea that i had posted on my guild site...

Have an NPC in the zone before the raid zone like TT for Seb, LS for Solb, etc. There will still be the public normal version of the zone but also an NPC that will respond to a command allowing a guild to enter an instance of the zone.

Within the raid zone, have it be a full pop will all mobs...make it where the guild must fight their way down...meaning if they try to skip mobs, at a certain interval random mobs from the zone will be summoned to the raid...all trash mobs should have something like 40 min repop timer...

No trash mobs will drop any items and only the raid mob will have its loot table...this way it doesn't draw away from grouping in public versions of solb/seb/etc...however you still must kill all the mobs...

Well what about raid targets in huge outdoor zones? Not sure...haven't thought that through...instance the entire zone? *shrug...i'll let other contributors chime in.

What about Naggy/Vox? U can't enter instance if above 52...and BnB's/Freeti and Terrors, etc. mobs will still pose a threat if not kept in check. Or hell leave these 2 raids uninstanced...since their loot tables are mostly on Kunark dragons too anyways...and top tier guilds probably won't waste time on them...opening them up to public raids or whatever guild doesn't really want to instance their own stuff...

I think this will draw people to come back to the server...other than griefing and taking up GM time, why else was instancing brought to EQ?

I'll gamble a theory that a lot of the EQ players grew up with families and jobs. We don't have the time like the other top guilds on the server to poopsock...instancing broadened the range of agegroups able to enjoy this game for everything it has to offer.

Is it EZmode? maybe to a certain extent...it allows easier access to raid content, but just because you have easier access to raid content doesn't make the content themselves easy.

Just my 2 cents...

<3 bubbles.

mgellan
09-05-2011, 01:19 PM
Dunno, simplest solution to me is if a guild misbehaves, delete it and give the leadership a temp or perm ban. If peeps ragequit over that, then most of the dicks disappear which is perfectly fine. The side benefit is the smaller guilds 1. Keep their high level players rather than losing them to raid guilds and 2. raid mobs open up to small guilds.

Why put up with the drama? I'd love to put up a server that is raid-guild hostile, seems to me it'd be quieter and more fun for 80% of the players :)

Regards,
Mg

stormlord
09-05-2011, 01:55 PM
Why do solutions always seem like they were gotten from the Gaming 101 for Dummies book?

Instancing is a nice solution for overpopulation in content, especially nice for developers, but it robs the world of social interaction and instead of playing in different content to keep yourself occupied, you're playing in the same exact content that everyone else is playing in. Instancing extends the life of already existing content - at the cost of other things.

The industry needs to look at other possibilities that don't reduce social interaction, and should encourage new content as opposed to the mirroring of already existing content (to save resources).

But I think instancing is probably the cheapest method right now and that's why it's used, among a few other reasons. However, this does not mean the same will remain true indefinitely.

I picture several things:
1) Dynamic spawns and spawn times
2) Whole dynamic zones that despawn and spawn based on changing conditions
3) Spawning that's based on population

Those're the first few things that come to mind. This takes me way back to Diablo II. In that game, when population goes up the creatures would drop higher rewards and better loot (with some increase in hitpoints and dps of the creatures you fight). This extended the usability of the content and ensured that if you couldn't find others to help you kill something because there was no one else then you could have a reasonable chance of doing it yourself (the creatures become easier). It also meant that when more players entered the server that things would get a bit harder and last longer.

Just imagine zoning into lower guk and seeing that there're too many people in the zone and there's no room for more groups or people. Now imagine that instead of leaving the zone to find something else, that the game increased the power of the creatures just enough that there'd be room for you somewhere. So instead of everyone else keeping all of the spawns clear, there might be several leftover so that you have something to do. This kind of change would probably entail numerous other changes in EQ, but it shows how something like this roughly works.

A server that's designed to dynamically respond to population, low or high, is not going to collapse when the population changes. EQ was (less so today, but I'd still argue that it's) highly dependent on population. But in any case, when a server can do this it will tolerate population changes much more effectively.

But I'd like to see more dynamic dungeons or zones that're created to be open world (not instanced). These dungeons might only exist for a time, dependent on other factors. They could have random elements inside and be sprinkled across the world in different places. It would be a bit like ldons except that everyone could enter.

I'd lke to see more land area and a travel system that's similar to UO's. One where players are in control of the travel system and can travel instantly to different locations they have stored in their travel book. One way to produce lots of content is to pregenerate it. While the content will not have the kind of quality we're used to in handmade content, it will be abundant and it won't come at the cost of social interaction or other negatives associated with instancing.

I've just given a few ideas here. But there're countless things. Instancing is just one way to reduce the chance that players will hit a road block in their progression. If you don't understand the underlying cause of these things, you might think instancing was made in the bible or given to man from god. Once you do understand the causes that lead developers to make instanced content, then you can see how other answers are possible if they're investigated and employed in new projects. But it has to be with conviction and not a halfass attempt - nothing is easy.

It just feels real contrived to me; the whole instancing thing. I always get this horrible feeling that it's just another excuse for people to be private and stick to their circle of friends. I don't think worlds should go too much in that direction. Spontaneous meetings are not bad and nor were PUGs. PUGs were one of the greatest things about the older game. A game where everyone is so private is not socially rich. It's a reflection of our society too, not just MMOs in general.

mokfarg
09-05-2011, 02:08 PM
I'll post my instancing idea that i had posted on my guild site...

Have an NPC in the zone before the raid zone like TT for Seb, LS for Solb, etc. There will still be the public normal version of the zone but also an NPC that will respond to a command allowing a guild to enter an instance of the zone.

Within the raid zone, have it be a full pop will all mobs...make it where the guild must fight their way down...meaning if they try to skip mobs, at a certain interval random mobs from the zone will be summoned to the raid...all trash mobs should have something like 40 min repop timer...

No trash mobs will drop any items and only the raid mob will have its loot table...this way it doesn't draw away from grouping in public versions of solb/seb/etc...however you still must kill all the mobs...

Well what about raid targets in huge outdoor zones? Not sure...haven't thought that through...instance the entire zone? *shrug...i'll let other contributors chime in.

What about Naggy/Vox? U can't enter instance if above 52...and BnB's/Freeti and Terrors, etc. mobs will still pose a threat if not kept in check. Or hell leave these 2 raids uninstanced...since their loot tables are mostly on Kunark dragons too anyways...and top tier guilds probably won't waste time on them...opening them up to public raids or whatever guild doesn't really want to instance their own stuff...

I think this will draw people to come back to the server...other than griefing and taking up GM time, why else was instancing brought to EQ?

I'll gamble a theory that a lot of the EQ players grew up with families and jobs. We don't have the time like the other top guilds on the server to poopsock...instancing broadened the range of agegroups able to enjoy this game for everything it has to offer.

Is it EZmode? maybe to a certain extent...it allows easier access to raid content, but just because you have easier access to raid content doesn't make the content themselves easy.

Just my 2 cents...

<3 bubbles.

Edit: One thing I would add to your idea is, if the raid mobs were instanced the drop rate should be extremely low. This way everyone would get a whack at killing bosses but not necessarily the loot becoming completely common.

Fun to think about how to improve classic EQ while keeping it's spirit. The goal on this server is to be 100% classic so I doubt it would happen. Later Nilbog and others mentioned a custom server.

I would like to see how Nilbog, Rogean would envision a Everquest 2.0 while keeping in the spirit of classic. Instancing raid targets would be a neat addition, as would custom AAs, customizing each class to where they could still be unique and solo monsters, bigger grouping xp bonuses, lesser solo xp, maybe a few auctioneer npcs in E common tunnel? I imagine with their skill they could do some really cool stuff without altering the trilogy game world too much. I think it still should be the same lore, zones, etc but 2.0! :)

stormlord
09-05-2011, 02:28 PM
Here's my challenge to the people here...

Assuming that the majority of players are raiders...

-OR

Assuming that most players CARE about this issue, whether they raid or not...

... devise a solution that does NOT employ instancing.

Surely if you care about it you will come up with something creative.

Zereh
09-05-2011, 02:47 PM
It's simple: FTE with a zone-wide message of who gets initial aggro.

Rais
09-05-2011, 03:15 PM
That won't solve anything Z. I would go into details, but that will just make this thread end up in RnF-where it shouldn't be.

PureLo
09-05-2011, 03:30 PM
how about a calendar rotation? easy peasy