Bring target rings back.

[Kelendil_Arclight]

Seriously, just bring them back.

[Semli]

No, leave them out.

[Roanoke]

If it were 1999/2000 you'd have never known the difference.

Welcome to classic.

[Doors]

Speaking of which, I'm curious to know why you'd remove target rings but you left item linking in.

I keep hearing this 'not classic' argument but it seems like you pick and choose what you want to be classic.

[Fril]

The no target rings change is brutally stupid....

[Bardalicious]

They took target rings out? Badass! That's good news for Red99. Some of my fondest memories are ganking people while I was minor illusioned as a torch or fire pot.

[Tux]

Speaking of which, I'm curious to know why you'd remove target rings but you left item linking in.

I keep hearing this 'not classic' argument but it seems like you pick and choose what you want to be classic.

I gather if the issue matters to someone they will argue one way or the other, otherwise they'll just parrot "not classic!".

I didn't realize that recreating the classic UI was part of the objective. Does this mean custom UIs should be disallowed? They certainly aren't classic.

[Bardalicious]

The no target rings change is brutally stupid....

Classic EQ was meant to be brutal.

Also, comparing target rings (makes it easier to find your target in actual game play) to item linking (saves some typing - does not really affect the difficulty of game play) isn't really fair. Though I'd prefer item linking went away too.

[Doors]

Yeah good point actually. While we're at it, disable all UI modifications. People should be using the solid grey stone box defaults if we're emulating classic UI features as well.

[Bardalicious]

You guys are arguing that them removing target rings is parallel to removing the ability to modify the user interface, which is incorrect. If they had removed the ability to use CUSTOM target rings I would agree, however they removed a game feature. Not a UI customization.

With it being this long into the server that they made the change, I'd have to assume it was with Red 99 in mind. It really defeats the purpose of trying to strategically hide, be it behind a tree, in the dark or levitated 30 feet in the air, when there is an obnoxious glowing circle underneath you everywhere you run.

[Smedy]

The target ring removal is the best thing that has happened to emu since the classic skin skeletons imo, keep this shit in, makes the game better, harder and require more attention & skill.

Improves everquest pvp very much.

[Semli]

The UI stuff is nonsense. That argument in silly and they know it. It can go both ways.

"Non-classic UI? This server is clearly not classic. Put the rest of the expansions in, too. I want the PoK."

The server is still a work in progress. They're working toward a goal. There will be players that joined somewhere along the way that won't want certain aspects of the server to change from that point. Sorry, guys, your input matters little, if at all. What EQ was like is what matters.

[Bardalicious]

The target ring removal is the best thing that has happened to emu since the classic skin skeletons imo, keep this shit in, makes the game better, harder and require more attention & skill.

Improves everquest pvp very much.


Amen!

[Xanthias]

Improves everquest pvp very much.

And this matters on the blue server why?
Simply asking.

[Knuckle]

ITT: Mad bluebies hit by the classic reaper rogean jesus underlord

[JayDee]

And this matters on the blue server why?
Simply asking.

just because

now shuttup and eat your green beans

[Bardalicious]

And this matters on the blue server why?
Simply asking.

If it does not matter, then why argue to keep them on the blue server? They simplify game play, which was pretty much the opposite of why EverQuest had its appeal. That holds true for PVE and PVP both.

[Tux]

If it's a Red99 thing it doesn't make any sense removing them here.

It's amazing how much talk and consideration a server that doesn't exist gets.

[Bardalicious]

If it's a Red99 thing it doesn't make any sense removing them here.

It's amazing how much talk and consideration a server that doesn't exist gets.

Why is anyone arguing to keep them if there is no advantage to it? Obviously there is, but the people that will cling to them do not want to admit it. We are excited about it for Red99, yes, because it has a huge impact on PVP fighting when you don't have a target ring to ez-mode follow and find your target.

It also has a huge impact in PVE when you actually have to pay attention to what you are targeting in a fight. This holds especially true for CC classes.

The server may not exist on the server list, that does not mean it is not in production. I think a trip over to the PVP section of the forums where we've been discussing mechanics with Rogean and Nilbog for the past month can clarify that for you if you are confused about it.

[Quizy]

You guys are arguing that them removing target rings is parallel to removing the ability to modify the user interface, which is incorrect. If they had removed the ability to use CUSTOM target rings I would agree, however they removed a game feature. Not a UI customization.

With it being this long into the server that they made the change, I'd have to assume it was with Red 99 in mind. It really defeats the purpose of trying to strategically hide, be it behind a tree, in the dark or levitated 30 feet in the air, when there is an obnoxious glowing circle underneath you everywhere you run.

QFT

[Spoodowg2000bc]

Disabling target rings is basically a "fuck you" to newer, low level players. All the level 60s had the benefit of going to sleep during fucking boring, mindless exp grind groups, but now new players on the server don't have this benefit? Sure you've got your stupid club as big as you want it, I guess.

Also, this is an imbalanced nerf to short melees (dwarves, gnomes, and halflings). We have to look up at flashing names now.

[Semli]

It's how it was in classic, bub.

[inyane]

i would echo the thought that i really wish people would stop with the "its not classic" bullshit. there are obviously plenty of things about this server that aren't classic.

[Semli]

The UI stuff is nonsense. That argument in silly and they know it. It can go both ways.

"Non-classic UI? This server is clearly not classic. Put the rest of the expansions in, too. I want the PoK."

The server is still a work in progress. They're working toward a goal. There will be players that joined somewhere along the way that won't want certain aspects of the server to change from that point. Sorry, guys, your input matters little, if at all. What EQ was like is what matters.

[wrxBRAH]

Speaking of which, I'm curious to know why you'd remove target rings but you left item linking in.

I keep hearing this 'not classic' argument but it seems like you pick and choose what you want to be classic.

which brings us right back to two boxing. Its Custom1999!

[Tux]

You guys are arguing that them removing target rings is parallel to removing the ability to modify the user interface, which is incorrect. If they had removed the ability to use CUSTOM target rings I would agree, however they removed a game feature. Not a UI customization.


You're incorrect. A display highlighting what is targeted is very much part of the user interface, customizable or not. If you feel differently consider battling it out on the wikipedia entry.

[Xanthias]

If it does not matter, then why argue to keep them on the blue server? They simplify game play, which was pretty much the opposite of why EverQuest had its appeal. That holds true for PVE and PVP both.

I'm not, I don't care one way or the other.

I was just curious why a PVP arguement was being made on the blue server :)

[Semli]

You're incorrect. A display highlighting what is targeted is very much part of the user interface, customizable or not. If you feel differently consider battling it out on the wikipedia entry.


Re-read what he said. You're agreeing with him.

[Bardalicious]

You're incorrect. A display highlighting what is targeted is very much part of the user interface, customizable or not. If you feel differently consider battling it out on the wikipedia entry.

I'd prefer battling it out where it was relevant, such as this conversation, but being that you provide no real argument other than "you are wrong", it seems overly fruitless.

You have your opinion. I have mine. The difference being that I support mine with a logical argument. I'm not even sure what you are disagreeing with in my statement. Are you saying that because a target ring can be construed as part of the User Interface, it should be acceptable to leave it to the players to decide if they want it?

Again, that is incorrect in the same sense that players are not allowed to use glowing models in first person shooters. It simplifies the game. It being in the space where the user is interacting with the game is no basis for any logical argument to keep them in when the goal of this project was to emulate classical EverQuest in the spirit of challenging game play.

[Tux]

I'd prefer battling it out where it was relevant, such as this conversation, but being that you provide no real argument other than "you are wrong", it seems overly fruitless.

You have your opinion. I have mine. The difference being that I support mine with a logical argument. I'm not even sure what you are disagreeing with in my statement. Are you saying that because a target ring can be construed as part of the User Interface, it should be acceptable to leave it to the players to decide if they want it?

Again, that is incorrect in the same sense that players are not allowed to use glowing models in first person shooters. It simplifies the game. It being in the space where the user is interacting with the game is no basis for any logical argument to keep them in when the goal of this project was to emulate classical EverQuest in the spirit of challenging game play.

I gathered that you were saying what wasn't customizable was not part of the UI, but a graphical highlight of what is targeted is very much part of the UI customizable or not. The controls are displays are all by definition part of the UI. For those of us that don't plan to remake a character on red99 this change just makes the UI more cumbersome.

I obviously don't like the change, and even less knowing it was made for a PVP reason that wont matter today, and will never matter here. Oh well, I'll adjust and get over it as I doubt we'll see it changed back.

[Vondra]

I'll learn to deal with it...but it hurts since I've been here for a bit now and have really gotten used to those rings.

[Runningfish]

It wasn't just changed for PvP.. The ongoing goal of this server is to make it as classic as possible. Whether or not you want to hear that argument that much is true. Over time they are learning how to remove these features that they have wanted removed since the beginning.

Disabling target rings is basically a "fuck you" to newer, low level players. All the level 60s had the benefit of going to sleep during fucking boring, mindless exp grind groups, but now new players on the server don't have this benefit? Sure you've got your stupid club as big as you want it, I guess.

Also, this is an imbalanced nerf to short melees (dwarves, gnomes, and halflings). We have to look up at flashing names now.

You are completely exaggerating the effects of this. They are a convenience and were nice to have. However if you really can't play just as well without them your a bad player simple as that. Especially if your a melee like your post implies this has the least effect on you. I mean honestly if your clicking the mob right in front of you most likely it's targeted. Maybe you guys tab target for everything? Anyone who targets with their mouse and is paying even slight attention to whats going on should not be affected by this.

It's certainly not worth the amount of crying going on in this thread. I mean really why don't you guys enjoy the game and learn how to play without them instead of crying to your gods to change it back.

[Foxx]

NOT CLASSIC DONT RUIN MY IMMERSION

[Titanuk]

leave them out

[Nial]

Love it!

Can't wait until the next update.

Hopefully we will see BOOKINTHEFACE

You wanted classic? ...you got classic.

Yes I'm cynical. Great job Rogean and Co.

[Mardur]

Red99 is going to be going into beta in a month or so. Expect more P99 updates that reflect necessary PVP changes.

The reason that the development team is spending time fixing things that have a greater impact on PVP is for the same reason that Nilbog and co spent so damn long developing Project 1999 without a word: they know how to make successful servers.

For example, obviously hacking and cheating has negative repercussions to the population of P99, but if Red99 wasn't on the horizon I can guarantee that there wouldn't have been such a focus on detecting and preventing cheating lately. Cheat programs on a PVP server give an exponentially larger advantage than on a PVE server.

Target rings were one of the HUGE detriments to PVPing on emu that until this day hasn't been dealt with. Target rings severely decrease the effectiveness of classes such as rogues and enchanters. I know a lot more people will be considering those two classes now that target rings have been removed. Preemptive class balance before Red99 has been released: awesome.

I know most of you don't care about Red99, but that server is why there's a focus on fixing SOME classic functions and not the ones you specifically and greedily expect the dev team to focus on. There's 10,000 things that can be changed to make the server more classic, but with a small volunteer development team, changes are going to go in by priority. Right now they're in the "make sure Red99 is successful and as accurate a representation of classic EQ pvp possible" phase. Sorry if that means you actually have to cast see invis now instead of following a magical glowing ring.

[Kelsar]

Target rings were one of the HUGE detriments to PVPing on emu that until this day hasn't been dealt with. Target rings severely decrease the effectiveness of classes such as rogues and enchanters. I know a lot more people will be considering those two classes now that target rings have been removed. Preemptive class balance before Red99 has been released: awesome.

illusion/hide now working! OH SNAP!

[Felwithemagi]

I can deal with it. But I will miss the loss of spell sets, maybe maps. If the argument from above is to make it more classic, then please do so. Remove mage fire pet insta-ds, add mage spell Cornucopia to vendor which was in classic.

[porigromus]

I didn't realize their were missing. I had them turned off already in the settings!

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Tank targets mob of his choice (any mob, really, though they can often assist puller and have plenty of time to make a choice w/o target ring)

DPS assists tank

Enchanter assists tank and then tab -> mez -> tab -> mez pretty much everything assume aoe mez is not needed (and thats when shits usually going pretty badly :P)

Who is actually using the target rings to see who they're targeted on outside of large scale pvp? really?

[Knuckle]

mad bluebies mad at classic mechanics

[Ennoia]

Speaking of which, I'm curious to know why you'd remove target rings but you left item linking in.

I keep hearing this 'not classic' argument but it seems like you pick and choose what you want to be classic.

Item links isn't combat-changing, target rings is.

[Doors]

Item links isn't combat-changing, target rings is.

Completely besides the point.

[Smedy]

And this matters on the blue server why?
Simply asking.

This matters on a blue server why? You have zero competition, do you really need a huge arrow pointing out that you have trakanon in target, can't you just read the target window?

Cmon now bluebies, your server is already zero difficulty, this won't change a thing for you, you can't even nuke your own by mistake.

[Smedy]

And this matters on the blue server why?
Simply asking.


It also has a huge impact in PVE when you actually have to pay attention to what you are targeting in a fight. This holds especially true for CC classes.


Well this is true, the no target ring separates the good players from the shitty ones.

Some people just want that console auto-aim bullshit to feel equal to the people who take the game a little bit more serious and practice becoming good at it.

[deneauth]

BRING BACK THE CLASSIC OPENING CUT SCENE. I want to see that little halfling sneak behind the ogre guards! This thread is ruining my classic experience! Oh wait, bitching and moaning is part of classic EQ too I forgot.... carry on.

[nilbog]

BRING BACK THE CLASSIC OPENING CUT SCENE. I want to see that little halfling sneak behind the ogre guards!

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ym9hIEbnijw" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="345" width="420"></iframe>

[deneauth]

This is why I love this server, thank you Nilbog!

[Smedy]

that halfling ogre senario is totally from the najena basement! fuk ya

bring classic back, make me sit in the book and med while being paranoid about the noises i hear around me, classic style.

[C5BAMF]

Remember that one time you wished you could play classic EQ, and then you cried about it being classic?

[Dojii]

i like P99 now i've been getting highly immersed. freshening up for the grind ahead on the upcoming PVP server.

[greatdane]

If you can't play without target rings, you have a problem, not the server. Anyone who actually played back in the day should get used to it again in no time. It was a non-classic feature, and just because a non-classic feature has lasted this long doesn't mean it shouldn't ever be fixed. It's probably just that nobody figured out how or took the time to do it until now. You don't even need target rings for 90% of gameplay, and the situations where they might come in handy can just as well be handled with an /assist hotkey. Maybe it'll teach people to play a little better.

[mitic]

i dont rly care if there are rings or not but i dont understand why they took them out after the server being online for 2 years ...

[nilbog]

i dont rly care if there are rings or not but i dont understand why they took them out after the server being online for 2 years ...

Quite simply, we fix things when we have the means.

Notice the other client-related issues which have been recently fixed. Brown skeletons, maps, and spellsets.

On the slate, if not already fixed, bypassing 'tradeskill recipe window' to open tradeskill containers with combine button.

I also requested that PCs in skeleton form not display names (hope that's fixable)

http://i56.tinypic.com/2h2gx6x.jpg



If you know of more client-related bugs, post them.

[porigromus]

i dont rly care if there are rings or not but i dont understand why they took them out after the server being online for 2 years ...

It's actually easy to understand. The server goal is listed on the front page, to become as classic as possible. I myself am interested in this goal and the reason I play here.

I try to get as close to classic as I can even if the rules allow some non-classic things. I myself went in and disabled rings when I first started playing because I wanted the game to be classic. That is why you are here to right?

Edit: I went in and disabled all new pet graphics too. I don't know if this is fixed yet but it has been fixed for me for a long time now!

[hdawg06]

Welcome to classic.

Last time I checked this wasn't classic. Get over it.

[Messianic]

Remember that one time you wished you could play classic EQ, and then you cried about it being classic?

This.

To quote Arnold, stop whining.

Wahh wahh it's not 100% classic therefore it shouldn't even be 95% classic because i'm an uptight fanboy with nothing better to do than complain about item linking, wahh wahh

[Lazortag]

If you guys don't like it, just make your own "95% classic" version of everquest using the starcraft campaign editor. You could add all sorts of things that they didn't think of in classic (like soulbinders, target rings, hydralisks, etc...). Unfortunately your 'server' won't be able to have more than 8 players on at a time, but who cares, at least you won't have to deal with mean old devs like Nilbog taking away your precious non-classic features.

[Nedala]

Last time I checked this wasn't classic. Get over it.

Last time i checked it was. Get over it.

[inyane]

Not really sure how a target ring equates to auto-aim, but ok.

So, seriously, you've practiced clicking on targets and looking at your target window? How much time did you manage to shave off your targeting?

From everything I've been reading, obviously using a targeting ring is worse than anything the cheaters did.

Everquest is hard. Glad you are spending time getting some practice in.


Well this is true, the no target ring separates the good players from the shitty ones.

Some people just want that console auto-aim bullshit to feel equal to the people who take the game a little bit more serious and practice becoming good at it.

[Autotune]

/assist
/endthread

[Messianic]

Come on guys, we all know 91% classic is better than 92% classic because the devs are just picking and choosing what they want to be classic. As long as the server is not 100% classic, any change that makes it more classic is obviously stupid.

[jdx]

which brings us right back to two boxing. Its Custom1999!


I couldn't agree more. Stop hating on people who would rather control two accounts because they can control two (and had the $ to pay for it) better than some stranger can control one.

You (p99 staff) guys sit here and say you want to recreate the everquest experience for people to relive and enjoy - well my experience was 2 (actually 3) boxing with my brother boxing as well. But no, if I want to play on project1999, I'm forced into to your subjective opinion of what "classic" was. I limit myself to one account simply because I love the game and 1 boxing is better than no boxing, but it's far from the fun I had on live classic.

For the record I think removing the rings was the right thing to do.

[nilbog]

You (p99 staff) guys sit here and say you want to recreate the everquest experience for people to relive and enjoy - well my experience was 2 (actually 3) boxing with my brother boxing as well. But no, if I want to play on project1999, I'm forced into to your subjective opinion of what "classic" was. I limit myself to one account simply because I love the game and 1 boxing is better than no boxing, but it's far from the fun I had on live classic.



Statistically, we are recreating classic. If you were boxing pre-Luclin, you were an extreme minority for several reasons. It's an accurate representation of active server life, not just subjective opinion.

To recreate a classic experience, the average player you encounter should be an individual, not a player with a robot in tow.

[Spoodowg2000bc]

It wasn't just changed for PvP.. The ongoing goal of this server is to make it as classic as possible. Whether or not you want to hear that argument that much is true. Over time they are learning how to remove these features that they have wanted removed since the beginning.

Disabling target rings is basically a "fuck you" to newer, low level players. All the level 60s had the benefit of going to sleep during fucking boring, mindless exp grind groups, but now new players on the server don't have this benefit? Sure you've got your stupid club as big as you want it, I guess.

Also, this is an imbalanced nerf to short melees (dwarves, gnomes, and halflings). We have to look up at flashing names now.

You are completely exaggerating the effects of this. They are a convenience and were nice to have. However if you really can't play just as well without them your a bad player simple as that. Especially if your a melee like your post implies this has the least effect on you. I mean honestly if your clicking the mob right in front of you most likely it's targeted. Maybe you guys tab target for everything? Anyone who targets with their mouse and is paying even slight attention to whats going on should not be affected by this.

It's certainly not worth the amount of crying going on in this thread. I mean really why don't you guys enjoy the game and learn how to play without them instead of crying to your gods to change it back.

It's not a matter of being any good or not, it's whether I can surf the web or watch TV while being in a boring-ass exp grind group that is going to put me to sleep if that's the only thing I'm doing.

Tank targets mob of his choice (any mob, really, though they can often assist puller and have plenty of time to make a choice w/o target ring)

DPS assists tank

Enchanter assists tank and then tab -> mez -> tab -> mez pretty much everything assume aoe mez is not needed (and thats when shits usually going pretty badly :P)

Who is actually using the target rings to see who they're targeted on outside of large scale pvp? really?

The benefit of the ring is what I described above: being able to pay as little attention to the game as possible. With the target ring, I get a large visual confirmation that the thing is in front of me and I am probably hitting it. Even if I assist the tank, the thing might run off for a caster while I'm checking my email. If the giant ring disappears from the EQ window, it's pretty easy to tell. Now I have to check my combat log or look for flashing names, which requires more attention.

The point is not whether slagging-off and surfing the web in an exp group is a good thing to do or whether the player is bad. The point is that everyone that has been playing on this server for the past few years has had this crutch to use for whatever they need it for (watching porn while playing EQ, being the worst EQ player ever) to get to where they are now. However, now I am being told that I can't chat and DJ on turntable.fm in order to stay awake while grinding Sol A at 3am. I guess I won't. I guess I'll go to sleep, never level up, and the admins and their buddies can hope that none of their level 60 club ever quits because there isn't going to be anyone to replace them.

[Daldaen]

Statistically, we are recreating classic. If you were boxing pre-Luclin, you were an extreme minority for several reasons. It's an accurate representation of active server life, not just subjective opinion.

To recreate a classic experience, the average player you encounter should be an individual, not a player with a robot in tow.
And the player you encounter is 1 person. Not having exchanged hands between many people through the sale of said account. Which is one difference with P99 and Live.

Accounts change hands often here (some of them seem to have been passed around like a town bicycle).

That being said I don't really have a problem with the target ring change, nor the right click to load spell change (several months back which prompted the same posts of Q_Qing).

What I would like to see is that things that were classic but deemed OP by the staff implemented even if somewhat OP. Stuff like Divine Aura keeping aggro is extremely or was extremely OP (This was in game but I am unsure if this was changed according to the live patch history)... yet something like a Weighted Axe on a pet isn't allowed?

I just dislike the picking and choosing of which old things should be left out because they were OP or which should be modified from classic -> non classic because of how players were using them in P99 (see Hoops). That being said, I am not a developer working on P99, just my opinion as a player which doesn't carry much weight but its my 2 c's.

[mokfarg]

It's not a matter of being any good or not, it's whether I can surf the web or watch TV while being in a boring-ass exp grind group that is going to put me to sleep if that's the only thing I'm doing.



The benefit of the ring is what I described above: being able to pay as little attention to the game as possible. With the target ring, I get a large visual confirmation that the thing is in front of me and I am probably hitting it. Even if I assist the tank, the thing might run off for a caster while I'm checking my email. If the giant ring disappears from the EQ window, it's pretty easy to tell. Now I have to check my combat log or look for flashing names, which requires more attention.

The point is not whether slagging-off and surfing the web in an exp group is a good thing to do or whether the player is bad. The point is that everyone that has been playing on this server for the past few years has had this crutch to use for whatever they need it for (watching porn while playing EQ, being the worst EQ player ever) to get to where they are now. However, now I am being told that I can't chat and DJ on turntable.fm in order to stay awake while grinding Sol A at 3am. I guess I won't. I guess I'll go to sleep, never level up, and the admins and their buddies can hope that none of their level 60 club ever quits because there isn't going to be anyone to replace them.

Sounds like you would rather be doing something else than actually playing the game. Why are you playing? I am sure you are a joy to have in a group ...

[Spoodowg2000bc]

Sounds like you would rather be doing something else than actually playing the game. Why are you playing? I am sure you are a joy to have in a group ...

It's a good question. This game is boring as fuck. I don't know why I bother.

Someone asking these questions is usually asking the same of themselves though, so take a look in the mirror, buddy, rather than projecting onto someone else.

[deneauth]

It's a good question. This game is boring as fuck. I don't know why I bother.

Someone asking these questions is usually asking the same of themselves though, so take a look in the mirror, buddy, rather than projecting onto someone else.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/kumacho1957/Forum%20stuff/happy_gilmore_jackass_guy-100x92.jpg

Bye bye

[Spoodowg2000bc]

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/kumacho1957/Forum%20stuff/happy_gilmore_jackass_guy-100x92.jpg

Bye bye

childish

[Tarada356]

Thanks a lot...

[Runningfish]

It's not a matter of being any good or not, it's whether I can surf the web or watch TV while being in a boring-ass exp grind group that is going to put me to sleep if that's the only thing I'm doing.



The benefit of the ring is what I described above: being able to pay as little attention to the game as possible. With the target ring, I get a large visual confirmation that the thing is in front of me and I am probably hitting it. Even if I assist the tank, the thing might run off for a caster while I'm checking my email. If the giant ring disappears from the EQ window, it's pretty easy to tell. Now I have to check my combat log or look for flashing names, which requires more attention.

The point is not whether slagging-off and surfing the web in an exp group is a good thing to do or whether the player is bad. The point is that everyone that has been playing on this server for the past few years has had this crutch to use for whatever they need it for (watching porn while playing EQ, being the worst EQ player ever) to get to where they are now. However, now I am being told that I can't chat and DJ on turntable.fm in order to stay awake while grinding Sol A at 3am. I guess I won't. I guess I'll go to sleep, never level up, and the admins and their buddies can hope that none of their level 60 club ever quits because there isn't going to be anyone to replace them.

Have you noticed that your the only one taking up this argument that people will quit because level 60's had the advantage of target rings? Honestly if you don't enjoy this game enough to play it without target rings you should quit. Most of us came here because we were told it's a classic server and this is how it was in classic EQ. I mean your basically asking them to go against the overall goal of the server because you don't want to play without reading your email at the same time.

If you can play by only looking at a target ring while DJing or browsing then I'm guessing your group roll isn't that important.. Most likely people won't notice you being a little bit worst than you were before. I can guarantee you 99% of these level 60's your talking about would be EXACTLY where they are with or without target rings. It takes a lot of work to get there and for 99% of us not having target rings isn't game breaking.

[Malrubius]

You (p99 staff) guys sit here and say you want to recreate the everquest experience for people to relive and enjoy - well my experience was 2 (actually 3) boxing with my brother boxing as well. But no, if I want to play on project1999, I'm forced into to your subjective opinion of what "classic" was. I limit myself to one account simply because I love the game and 1 boxing is better than no boxing, but it's far from the fun I had on live classic.

Translation: P99 staff has created classic EQ for the majority of players. But I am not in that majority, so I will complain about how it should be changed to MY classic implementation, so that the majority should be forced into MY subjective opinion of what classic was.

[Juugox2]

names still flash on target tho right? i mean i cant remember if thats classic or not really lol been so long but either way if they do then really dont need rings at all

[Daldaen]

names still flash on target tho right? i mean i cant remember if thats classic or not really lol been so long but either way if they do then really dont need rings at all

Flashing names was added during Classic pre Kunark

[jdx]

Statistically, we are recreating classic. If you were boxing pre-Luclin, you were an extreme minority for several reasons. It's an accurate representation of active server life, not just subjective opinion.

To recreate a classic experience, the average player you encounter should be an individual, not a player with a robot in tow.

Which as I said, respectfully sir, is your subjective opinion.

[Spud]

If they allowed boxing, EVERYONE would box, making this server completely un-classic. What is so hard to understand about that?

Also, are people really complaining about target rings??

[mitic]

If they allowed boxing, EVERYONE would box, making this server completely un-classic. What is so hard to understand about that?

Also, are people really complaining about target rings??

everyone would be FORCED to box, making this server completely unattractive for many of us.

[Spud]

everyone would be FORCED to box, making this server completely unattractive for many of us.

that's what I was arguing in my quote. did you quote me by accident?

[Semli]

He was making a slight correction by adding the word "forced." It changes the idea significantly. (Not being sarcastic.)

[Spud]

Oh ok I see...

Ya, everyone would be FORCED to box, what is so hard to understand about that? :)

[Nedala]

Which as I said, respectfully sir, is your subjective opinion.

It's not just his opinion, its a fact that there was only a small minority boxing on live. The main difference is, accounts are free on p99 AND everyone has a computer capable of running multiple accs at one time, and thats why the majority would 2 box if it was allowed. Which would destroy the classic feeling for the most part. Imagine every single decent place overcamped all the time.

[Demetrium]

This is my advice for everyone in this thread:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/newsfeed/000/108/560/1296285234646.gif?1301017692

[Mcbard]

Target rings/spell sets were not classic. I'm glad to see them gone!

Instate mandatory yellow viewport ui's and spellbook medding and I will love you long time.

[jdx]

This is my advice for everyone in this thread:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/newsfeed/000/108/560/1296285234646.gif?1301017692

lol +1

Whatever though, I'm not arguing the point because I think I'll win and magically make p99 staff allow boxing; i'm just defending boxing in that it would NOT be the cause of a lost "classic" feeling.

If you don't like boxing, don't play with boxers. If classic for YOU meant playing one account at a time, more power to you. If classic for you meant having your box cleric around so you could solo some camps in lower guk, more power to you and QQ ka-choo to those who couldn't lol.

I therefor assert and remind everyone that classic is defined by content (and apparently now client), and not play style.

This will be my last retort on the issue so feel free to flame me without fear of schoolage.

[greatdane]

Boxing hasn't been necessary for most of the server's lifespan. We tried to argue in favor for it before launch when a population above 100 was almost unthinkable, but it was refused back then because the decisionmakers felt it would be againt the classic spirit. Once it became clear that there were enough players to sustain a healthy gameplay environment without boxing, most stopped arguing for it. Now it's slowly starting to look like it would be a benefit for anyone leveling between 20 and 50, but it's only because this server has developed some weird anti-social atmosphere where almost everyone just solos, so while it might be logical to combat the mid-level group drought with boxing, I'm afraid the result would just be that everyone would take the opportunity to become self-sufficient and play the game in single-player mode. All it would take to make boxing obsolete is for the 200 necros and magicians to play with other people instead, but that's a lost cause.

[mitic]

brad mcquaid was against boxing and so is nilbog

[rak-012]

Wait. So that means Brad and Lady Angel Nilbog are the same person?

Someone call ScoobyDoo

[Robben]

If you can't see why boxing on a server w/ free accounts would be detrimental... sigh

[Drem]

love it. i'd turn the rings off thru options anyway. people actually used those?

[vinx]

Whatever though, I'm not arguing the point because I think I'll win and magically make p99 staff allow boxing; i'm just defending boxing in that it would NOT be the cause of a lost "classic" feeling.
Id actually like to see your points.. should start a new "box" thread in RnF so we can all get these new insights :D


If you don't like boxing, don't play with boxers.
Everyone would just start their own 2 box and then not play with other boxers

If classic for YOU meant playing one account at a time, more power to you. If classic for you meant having your box cleric around so you could solo some camps in lower guk, more power to you and QQ ka-choo to those who couldn't lol.
I dont think anyone playing "couldnt" 2 box
everyone has computers that can handle 2-20 boxes so it would be super easy to do 2 even on a POS PC
and it doesnt take much skill to box 2 = everyone would start boxing on P99 = to many variables injected onto the server that would tottally wipe that classic feel of comaraderie that the server aims for
imo, you should play PEQ for boxed progression if thats your style. box capability with expansions open to GoD/OoW (i think)

Aaaand, staying on topic:
on PEQ you can keep your spell sets/ target rings ;)

[Spoodowg2000bc]

Translation: P99 staff has created classic EQ for the majority of players. But I am not in that majority, so I will complain about how it should be changed to MY classic implementation, so that the majority should be forced into MY subjective opinion of what classic was.

You're bringing this back to the picking-and-choosing classic thing. Rings could have been removed sooner if they wanted it that way. They chose to leave them in until they chose to remove it. This server is the DEVS subjective opinion of classic was.

My argument is don't leave something that isn't classic in and then take it away at a whim, when people have come to expect it and others could have used it as a crutch for much longer. We can argue about how much it really helps anyone all we want, but that is just as subjective as the discussion of how much the MQ and MySEQ users benefited from that shit.

I'll probably be fine without target rings. I dunno though because I can't get a group as an untwinked melee during raid hours (responsible adult playing time).

[wrxBRAH]

Statistically, we are recreating classic. If you were boxing pre-Luclin, you were an extreme minority for several reasons. It's an accurate representation of active server life, not just subjective opinion.

To recreate a classic experience, the average player you encounter should be an individual, not a player with a robot in tow.

The minority of people on live sold/bought accounts and platinum pre-luclin yet its common practice here. You cant always use the "we're recreating classic" line with a custom server. In the end its your server and your rules so it doesnt matter anyway until they get done on eqclassic and release the code.

[Foxx]

The minority of people on live sold/bought accounts and platinum pre-luclin yet its common practice here. You cant always use the "we're recreating classic" line with a custom server. In the end its your server and your rules so it doesnt matter anyway until they get done on eqclassic and release the code.

eqclassic is a myth

[Buellen]

dont matter to me target ring gone. Lots of folks wandering why if this is going classic why not have removed the rings in first place ?? well it seem unlike LIVE these folks who develop this server do so when they can so it would seem logical that they could not dedicate all thier time to sit and removed that non classic stuff prior to release. IN the life of server (i just joined so not sure how long it has been around ) many things had to be fixed so thing got pushed back expansion worked on things got pushed back so finaly for "WHATEVER REASON PVP etc etc" they have to address this isssue and they allocate time to fix it.

It seems folks think that the developrs are here just to work on this project, and from my humble understanding they have life of their own which take up THEIR TIME. YOU may not like what they did and how long it took them to do it , but as many have stated THEIR GOAL was to make this server classic. IF it takes them months years to reach that GOAL and something is changed that makes you unhappy take a deep breath and remember IT NOT YOUR server , it belongs to the developers and they set the rules.

My 2 cents good night

EDIT: before anyone yells , tantrum etc, Yes you can voice your dislike as many of you have , but some of the posters take stance that just because devs work on this project that it should be perfect from release or close to it. THIS SERVER IS NOT THE DEVELOPERRS JOBE so dont expect them to commmit 40hrs plus per week so it will be as close to YOUR vision of classic / non classic. IT IS the developers Vision we just get to play in their playground.

[Runningfish]

You're bringing this back to the picking-and-choosing classic thing. Rings could have been removed sooner if they wanted it that way. They chose to leave them in until they chose to remove it. This server is the DEVS subjective opinion of classic was.

My argument is don't leave something that isn't classic in and then take it away at a whim, when people have come to expect it and others could have used it as a crutch for much longer. We can argue about how much it really helps anyone all we want, but that is just as subjective as the discussion of how much the MQ and MySEQ users benefited from that shit.

I'll probably be fine without target rings. I dunno though because I can't get a group as an untwinked melee during raid hours (responsible adult playing time).

You obviously don't understand why this was removed now. Nilbog/the dev's have been wanting to remove maps, rings, and spell sets for a long time. However until a recent improvement it was impossible. Now they can control the client side more, so once they got that control they did what they had been wanting to do for a while. It wasn't like this entire time they could just remove these any time they wanted. A tool had to be developed for them to do this.

Which as I said, respectfully sir, is your subjective opinion.

As I doubt there is any actual evidence to back his post up it is an opinion. However I think most people will agree that this is an accurate opinion. The vast majority of people playing from OG-velious were not boxing. I honestly can't think of a single person I ran into in game during that time that was. Post Velious however I knew quite a few people that did. It sucks that your view of classic includes boxing and you don't get your version of classic but the vast majority of us weren't boxing and don't want to have boxing on this server.

[karsten]

please bring target rings back

[Titanuk]

say bi bi to target rings and maps ..
qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqq

[nilbog]

Nilbog/the dev's have been wanting to remove maps, rings, and spell sets for a long time. However until a recent improvement it was impossible. Now they can control the client side more, so once they got that control they did what they had been wanting to do for a while. It wasn't like this entire time they could just remove these any time they wanted. A tool had to be developed for them to do this.


Correct. Brown skeletons/gypsies models were the first fixes provided by the advent of dll client fixes.

This patch, there were more.

Next patch, there will probably be more than that.

[Jigga]

hints at what else can be more Nilby?

[nilbog]

hints at what else can be more Nilby?

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=396916&postcount=55

If you guys know more, post them up. We'll fix if we can.

[Atmas]

I remember as a wizard on live playing PvP I hated these rings ferociously.


As a guy playing on a PvE server atm and often doing trades in EC I miss them.

[miethos]

I remember when they went live, first thing I tried to do was figure out how the hell to turn them off. Don't need no stinkin rings around stuff.

[Malrubius]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=396916&postcount=55

If you guys know more, post them up. We'll fix if we can.

Not sure if it's possible or not, and I know I'll be flamed for it, but I'd love it if casters had to stare at their spellbooks until level 35 again.

That might have gone away pre-Velious anyway though, in which case it wouldn't be worth it.

Keep up the good fight. It looks like we're evolving closer to 100% classic with every patch.

[nilbog]

Not sure if it's possible or not, and I know I'll be flamed for it, but I'd love it if casters had to stare at their spellbooks until level 35 again.

That might have gone away pre-Velious anyway though, in which case it wouldn't be worth it.

Keep up the good fight. It looks like we're evolving closer to 100% classic with every patch.

Book meditation wasn't removed until 2002.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=396970&postcount=36

[Ennoia]

Only bad players need target rings.

[Hottbiscuits Dreadmuffin]

Duxa's all in one installer thing got rid of the target rings for me when I did it a few months back.

I prefer it this way.. the rings reminded me too much of the "newer" EverQuest.

[mala]

Ive got one, that may or may not be different on purpose.

Pet damage if the pets holding a weapon should be different. If im not mistaken the damage on a weapon had a drastic effect on the damage output of the pet, while it does not here. Is this supposed to be that way or just hasnt been changed yet?

[RiffDaemon]

Speaking of which, I'm curious to know why you'd remove target rings but you left item linking in.

I keep hearing this 'not classic' argument but it seems like you pick and choose what you want to be classic.

Rogean, Uthgaard and Co. have said long ago that code constraints and other obstacles prevent them from removing Titanium-era features, and if they ever find a way to get around said obstacles, they will remove those features with prejudice.

So when they finally find a way to remove Item Linking, they're gonna do it.

[Fuzzi]

Allow two boxing and make them pay for both accounts.

[nilbog]

Allow two boxing and make them pay for both accounts.

We do not, nor we will ever charge for anything.


edit: ding 8000 posts.

[Hobby]

except for their love! it costs 3 easy payments of 49.99$ for nilbog to truly appreciate you as a human being...

rogean it takes 3 chocolate chip cookies, 2 brauts, 4 six-packs of good beer....and 20$ for gas...then HE will appreciate you as a human being.




edit:

grats nilbog on 8,000 posts...with only maybe 800 posts viewable to the masses!

[Gwence]

custom target rings were cool when they showed off your guild name in a creative and artful way

[Fuzzi]

We do not, nor we will ever charge for anything.


edit: ding 8000 posts.

Grats, and I said that to point out that back in the day it cost them money, and a fair bit at that, to hold more than one account. Rather than making 10 eqemu accounts.

[Ames]

Disabling target rings is basically a "fuck you" to newer, low level players. All the level 60s had the benefit of going to sleep during fucking boring, mindless exp grind groups, but now new players on the server don't have this benefit? Sure you've got your stupid club as big as you want it, I guess.

Also, this is an imbalanced nerf to short melees (dwarves, gnomes, and halflings). We have to look up at flashing names now.

Cry me a river

[Artah]

We do not, nor we will ever charge for anything.


edit: ding 8000 posts.

too bad people couldn't donate if they wanted to for things like have a name change?

BTW grats on 8K+ posts!

[Hobby]

Starting to donate for incentives is...well not donating. It's paying. And we can't be paid or else we get in trouble.

Donations are donations. They entitle you to nothing, they give you nothing, they expect nothing. You donate to have a server to play on, that is all.

[wrxBRAH]

Starting to donate for incentives is...well not donating. It's paying. And we can't be paid or else we get in trouble.

Donations are donations. They entitle you to nothing, they give you nothing, they expect nothing. You donate to have a server to play on, that is all.

How is it possible for servers like ez to do donations for points which ends up being spent on items then?

[dusk883]

I remember thinking last month, "whats these cool ring things?"

Yay for classic IMO

[Kevlar]

So a $20 donation won't mysteriously make 20kpp appear in your inventory?

[Nordenwatch]

someone donate fifty grand, see if you get anything.

[Maurk]

Disabling target rings is basically a "fuck you" to newer, low level players. All the level 60s had the benefit of going to sleep during fucking boring, mindless exp grind groups, but now new players on the server don't have this benefit? Sure you've got your stupid club as big as you want it, I guess.

Also, this is an imbalanced nerf to short melees (dwarves, gnomes, and halflings). We have to look up at flashing names now.

Holy shit you suck at EQ if target rings actually make a difference.

[Daldaen]

Yea target rings don't rate in my top 5 UI features, or anywhere close.

Gimme Extended Target Window, Health of Targets Target, Delegate Main Assist, Guild window, or raid window over that crap :P.

[Athosblack]

Blah. I really liked the target rings.

[Envious]

I remember thinking last month, "whats these cool ring things?"

Yay for classic IMO

^this

[Titanuk]

lol they gone

[Striiker]

Meh. The target rings were nice to have as it made sorting out mobs a little easier but it's no big deal now that they are gone. I managed to do quite well in '99 with lashing names and will do well now.
There are a lot of nice aspects to the game which are being stripped away in the name of being classic and I am completely fine with them all. This is, after all, a server which aims to be as classic as possible. I would imagine that linked items will eventually be phased out, old model pets will be enforced, spell book watching to med up to a certain level etc. will be figured out and implemented. I will miss certain things but hey, the plan has always been to make the server as close to classic as possible so we know what to expect..

[pickled_heretic]

I don't really care about the rings but removing spell sets is really frustrating. It's cruel to remove spell sets after enabling them, my spellbook was in disarray and I had instead organized spells via spell sets. Also as an enchanter you have way more useful lines than most other casters, swapping sets in the middle of combat was commonplace and now it's much harder to do. Most of the other casters never have any reason to do this.

[Extunarian]

I don't really care about the rings but removing spell sets is really frustrating. It's cruel to remove spell sets after enabling them, my spellbook was in disarray and I had instead organized spells via spell sets. Also as an enchanter you have way more useful lines than most other casters, swapping sets in the middle of combat was commonplace and now it's much harder to do. Most of the other casters never have any reason to do this.

I play a shaman and an enchanter - probably the 2 classes hit hardest by this. Spell sets were nice but an organized spell book and /book ## buttons are easy enough to adjust to.

[Tarathiel]

I disabled the target ring when I first started playing here cuz I was like "wtf this isn't how I remember this game" I only turned them back on when I started raiding sky and realized what a pain it was to get in range of those damn essence tamer's lol but meh what ev ill get over it, I'm still more pissed about the helm graphics, cuz unless you are de or barb they are ugly as sin

[Artah]

someone donate fifty grand, see if you get anything.

someone donate fifty grand just to do it...

[Nyrod]

I disabled the target ring when I first started playing here cuz I was like "wtf this isn't how I remember this game" I only turned them back on when I started raiding sky and realized what a pain it was to get in range of those damn essence tamer's lol but meh what ev ill get over it, I'm still more pissed about the helm graphics, cuz unless you are de or barb they are ugly as sin

what helm graphics? i can turn mine off still....?

[vinx]

unless you are de or barb they are ugly as sin
half-elf plate? thats prolly the BEST helm graphic! or wood elf plate (on males)

[Athosblack]

I missed it the first few days, but now that I think of it it surely makes EQ more difficult. And It really does bring back that old feeling of 'WTF' when tons of mobs are pulled and you have to /assist to target correctly.

[Radiskull]

I ONLY miss target rings when I'm trying to find one of the thousand people who insisnt on selling at t1. Spread out guys! I don't exagerate. ONE THOUSAND PEOPLE.

[Juugox2]

your targets name flashes so i mean you can still tell

[Layne]

your targets name flashes so i mean you can still tell

Yeah but the target ring is more visually striking than a world full of monsters with their names hovering over top their heads. I do agree that they give an advantage in pvp but do jack for the blue server other than allowing players to keep npc names turned off

[Foxx]

http://briansilhanek.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/dawson-crying-300x225.jpg

[stormlord]

This is another thing i've noticed, along with removal of spell descriptions and maps.

The reason this is more significant, in my eyes, is because targeting in EQ is not accurate. If I click on a npc I'm not guaranteed to target the right one. This is especially a problem when the target creatures are the same name. And whne there're a lot of creatures it's nigh impossible to click on the right one. You have to use the target cycle command. But if they have the same name then you cannot know which one is selected without this indicator.

[stormlord]

http://briansilhanek.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/dawson-crying-300x225.jpg
Damn. That almost looks like GWB back in the day...

[stormlord]

your targets name flashes so i mean you can still tell
I did not notice that. BUT isn't it significant that I didn't? Who's gonna know?

I'll have to confirm this.

[Galanteer]

yes, very significant that you didnt notice it. It means your a fucking idiot and a bad player

or just coddled by the target ring

[Diggles]

coddled by target ring would be a good gname

[HawkMasterson1999]

Target rings I can understand but if they remove item linking I'm just gonna quit.

[greatdane]

Who's gonna know?

Literally anyone who played before target rings were introduced?

[karsten]

please bring back target rings oh god my life

[sellawiz]

It seems stupid that they waited THIS LONG to remove the rings?!

[RiffDaemon]

It seems stupid that they waited THIS LONG to remove the rings?!

It wouldn't seem stupid if you had read the thread.


You obviously don't understand why this was removed now. Nilbog/the dev's have been wanting to remove maps, rings, and spell sets for a long time. However until a recent improvement it was impossible. Now they can control the client side more, so once they got that control they did what they had been wanting to do for a while. It wasn't like this entire time they could just remove these any time they wanted. A tool had to be developed for them to do this.



Quite simply, we fix things when we have the means.

Notice the other client-related issues which have been recently fixed. Brown skeletons, maps, and spellsets.

On the slate, if not already fixed, bypassing 'tradeskill recipe window' to open tradeskill containers with combine button.

I also requested that PCs in skeleton form not display names (hope that's fixable)

http://i56.tinypic.com/2h2gx6x.jpg



If you know of more client-related bugs, post them.