p1999 - punishing noobs

[raptorak]

Hi just like to say I think you have done a great job on the server although I have an issue with the removal of the map.

I have pretty much only just started up in p1999 and the map has of course just been removed. Now I have no idea where I am but I get it, that's classic. However, now that the majority of players are already high level, it seems to me they have had it easy, and anyone joining now is kinda screwed in comparison.


Anyway it kinda feels like the only people being affected by many of the classical changes are noobs like me who haven't played in nearly 10 years.

inb4 cry some moar :p

[mitic]

maps are still out there on the nets. just alt tab to check when you are in game.

besides that noobs arent punished at all at the current stage of the server..you get very good armor/weapons for cheap prices (if not for free)

map removal wasnt only for the classic feeling but also to make macroquest usage harder

so to sum it up: inb4 cry some moar!

[baub]

http://www.eqmacwiki.com/eqatlas/atlas.html

here u go sir

[Zereh]

I miss the maps too. =/

[Runningfish]

This is retardation... The only zones that had in game maps were newb zones and cities. Sooo the high levels had what level 1-10 easier? Damn the injustice!

Oh yea and all of us EZMODE high lvl's used a thing called eqatlas.


Sorry I'm usually nice to newbs but come on... This really isn't worth complaining about.

[Webwolf]

Lol Zereh is a noob!

[Samoht]

map removal wasnt only for the classic feeling but also to make macroquest usage harder

you don't have any idea how MQ works at all, do you?

[Hottbiscuits Dreadmuffin]

I got lost in West Freeport for about five minutes the day after the maps were taken out.

WHY U SO CONFUSING, FREEPORT? Be more like Neriak.

[mitic]

you don't have any idea how MQ works at all, do you?

i dont know, do you? :rolleyes:

[Samoht]

yes, i used MQ back on live 10 years ago. i'm not scared to admit it, and i have no intentions of using it on p99. all those guys that defend MQ usage by saying it doesn't give you "god mode" are either doing it wrong or trying to make it sound like it's capable of doing less than it actually does.

[mitic]

yes, i used MQ back on live 10 years ago. i'm not scared to admit it, and i have no intentions of using it on p99. all those guys that defend MQ usage by saying it doesn't give you "god mode" are either doing it wrong or trying to make it sound like it's capable of doing less than it actually does.

well, ill put on the table that almost everyone who played this game for a decade (like me) at least tried MQ once and i remember it liveupdating every single mob on ingame maps
so no maps helps in the fight against "the evil"

[Samoht]

except MQ bypasses the no map check

ever seen an in-game map in ssra? i have.

[bakkily]

yea freeport i know so well already, and all most old zones from soloing alot, but in kunark, still have to use eq atlas

[Juugox2]

lol back in the day i remember running around walls all the time toke so much longer to but had to do what we had to do to learn :P

[toddfx]

My #1 use for the in-game maps were to find my way out of zone passageways when I lose my sense of direction in there.

And also while in Qeynos.

[Thulack]

well, ill put on the table that almost everyone who played this game for a decade (like me) at least tried MQ once and i remember it liveupdating every single mob on ingame maps
so no maps helps in the fight against "the evil"
12 years of Live Eq and 2 weeks of p99 and have never once downloaded MQ. I know people who have used it on live and know what its capable of but being a ranger i know where everything is anyway and there are no suprises in EQ.

[Striiker]

I don't see this as punishing the new folks. It's an adjustment back to how it was. You at least have the benefit of having maps available online. When I was a new player in 1999, I had no such maps. Qeynos (as simple as it is) was a maze to me (and sparks flew out of my ears when I wandered lost around Freeport). Heck, I remember being afraid when I zoned to Qeynos Hills and West Karana because, there were no maps.. All we had were identifying landmarks and /loc (which at the time was confusing as the origin of the axis was not at any logical spot).

You came to P1999 to relive the game as it was.. Well, this is how it was.. Many of the things being taken out (such as target rings and maps) are not game breakers if left in but they are not classic and s were bound to be removed.. There's plenty more on the block I am sure.. For example, as much as I love them, I am sure that item linking and group messages indicating what was looted will go away too because these did not exist in the early days of the game.

[Striiker]

well, ill put on the table that almost everyone who played this game for a decade (like me) at least tried MQ once..."


Nope, never used MQ and I played from day 1 on live. Heck I've never even looked MQ up on the internet to this day. I always found that once one has used cheats in games, that the game loses part of its "fun factor" because the challenge fades.

[Nazran]

Kelethin is gonna suck with no map....

[Aadill]

Kelethin is gonna suck with no map....

Even with Track and lev I absolutely hate visiting Kelethin.

[falkun]

Really? I figured most of the stuff out in Kelethin as that's where I started on Live. Just note that for most ramps going down, you can either see the lip of the ramp before you go over the edge (and miss half the time), or you can ensure that you are always point straight towards the tree trunk in the middle of the next platform and you'll usually make it if there is any kind of ramp there. Then its just a matter of finding your way around, which just takes a bit of memorization.

[Aadill]

People are saying they had trouble with Freeport. I started in Freeport on live and know it fairly well. I'd consider Freeport a lot less confusing but it's all where you have your memories, isn't it? :)

Also I was referring to the fact that you can skip over some treetops so you can get to your destination quicker, but it still takes me forever to get on the right platform.

[falkun]

I think having access to the maps (both in-game and online) have made people not spend the time to learn the zones like they were forced to do back in '99-'01. I still remember most of the city locations and more importantly the direction/travel shortcuts (cutting under kelethin in GFay to BB instead of taking the path anyone?) that I had memorized back on live (now that's some useless information to keep in long-term memory!).

[Hottbiscuits Dreadmuffin]

I know Neriak like it's no ones business. It's a really easy zone for me to navigate, but for a lot of people I talk to they think that Neriak is like trying to find your way around Boston..

Kelethin isn't so bad, it's probably one of the easier zones because everything is in one zone, unlike Freeport/Qeynos/Neriak where it's split into separate parts.

I was apprehensive about the map change on p99, but having been without the map for a few days, I've realized it makes me pay more attention to where I am and what landmarks are around me. I'm happy with this.

[Vondra]

The maps were only available in certain areas, mainly towns and some low level hubs...that's about it.

Honestly other than finding vendors while in town, you didn't miss much. I keep a map site bookmarked which I definitely used 50x more than the maps which were only available for lowbie areas I knew easily anyway.

[raptorak]

I know I can look online and fine a map - basically this change is a big inconvenience.

Why aren't spellcasters looking at their spellbooks? What's all this auto-training meditation?

Classic eq is not classic :P

[Dantes]

Boohoo. I've been playing here on P99 for about 18 months and I had no idea maps were even in the game until about 30 days ago. I started out as a newb playing a race that was new to me (DE) in a city I am not familiar with. (Neriak) Somehow I managed. Project 1999 wiki, EQvintage.com - both great resources for maps. Re-learning these zones is a lot like riding a bike, you never forget and it all comes back to you.

[Kevlar]

So because you were dumb that makes it fair? Noobs with no sense heading can easily get lost in gfay or bbm.

[Thulack]

Boohoo. I've been playing here on P99 for about 18 months and I had no idea maps were even in the game until about 30 days ago. I started out as a newb playing a race that was new to me (DE) in a city I am not familiar with. (Neriak) Somehow I managed. Project 1999 wiki, EQvintage.com - both great resources for maps. Re-learning these zones is a lot like riding a bike, you never forget and it all comes back to you.

How you gonna go from Wood Elf on live to Dark Elf?? bah and i use to like you :P

There are many websites to find maps of zones. If you don't know zones by heart there is plenty of places to get maps. people who are complaining can go play on live. It's 100x easier then playing here.

[mwatt]

I guess old habits die hard. Here we are once again second-guessing the steps taken by the devs to make the game more classic. On the plus side, at least this discussion has been a civil one.

I have an opinion about removal of the limited in-game maps, but as a show of dev solidarity I am not going to give it. There are times when mistakes are made or bugs are created - these are great times to speak up about what has been done. As for opining on changes which simply serve to bring the game closer to classic, that seems be a groove that has become too well-worn of late.

If a change is in the offing that makes the server play more like the classic server, I'll withold my opinion until the devs actually ask - which they do indeed do at times, though they rightfully do this before they make a change.

For all you lawer-types that like to point out how X and Y are part of the server code and they are not classic, three things to remember:
1) Not everything is possible.
2) Some things which are possible are not currently practical due to resource and time limitations.
3) There will be a small number of things that the devs will choose to deviate from classic on - very likely only for extremely compelling reasons, as this is anti-thematic. This is their right. It is not open for discusson unless they invite such discussion. The existence of these few purposeful deviations is not license for the peanut gallery to whine when other classic behaviors that are not universally liked, are instituted.

[Tarathiel]

Maps are crutches, I use them mainly for reference to get a general idea of what direction to go. I do the rest with sense heading and /loc. So that being said the only advice I can give is max out sense heading asap and learn to use /loc... Its really not that difficult

[Mcbard]

Maps were kind of useless anyway. As batshit crazy as this may sound, even before I found this server and still had 3 years+ of EQ rust on my mind I could still run myself from zone to zone across all of Norrath in my noggin. I can navigate pretty much based on landmarks and with a compass it's super easy.

Maps were only in cities and noob zones anyway, which if you don't know by now well... there's never been a better time to learn! Those are the first places you should have memorized.

[Hobby]

Aye, for the most part I had all the zonelines and general area's of things on lock. City wise though, I only know freeport, kaladim, oggok, Ak'Kannon (or whatever...gnome place)...the others I couldn't guess as to where I was going. Mostly because i never spent time in them -shrug-

[mitic]

the world seemed way more mystical and dangerous back the day without eqatlas and ingame maps

[Secrets]

you don't have any idea how MQ works at all, do you?

I'm pretty sure 97% of the server doesn't know C++, so ya, you're right.
not to mention it's bannable here. I would advise against using it.

at any rate, they were removed because they are not classic.

want maps? http://www.eqmacwiki.com/eqatlas/atlas.html

you have to press 3 buttons instead of one, and it doesn't show your position on the map. oh noes, I will never find my way anywhere!

[Buellen]

First expierence with live when shorlty after eq release

Make a dark elf necromancer oh that sound fun. enter game where the heck am i climb some stairs trying to get some hight drop down and die hmm how am i going to get body back. log delte necro. break out some graph paper learn about weapons drop alwasy pointing north learn /loc command and make some maps.

did it take time hell ya but I learned my second starting city very well this way and each subsquent zone i visited. Everyone has access to printer and plethora of maps of eq on the web. download the ones you need for your adventuring area an make a small folder you keep within easy reach of your desk. this way you do not have alt tab out and risk chance you miss and important conversation , sale, pull, or funy story you see in the text boxes of this game.


my 6 cents

Buellen 25th ranger of P1999

[mitic]

First expierence with live when shorlty after eq release ...
...download the ones you need for your adventuring area an make a small folder you keep within easy reach of your desk. this way you do not have alt tab out and risk chance you miss and important conversation , sale, pull, or funy story you see in the text boxes of this game.


you havent been able to alt tab out the game for at least a year or two after release without crashing the game. verant stated the reasons: more immersion, preventing 3rd party programms (to some degree i guess)

but yea, i had a ton of printed maps myself too back the day!

[vinx]

It just takes time to memorize or remember...

Most of us who have never left EQ since the day we loaded it up have it easy
but we did have to go thru the learning curve most complain about eg, create lowbies in every city / get lost for hours / run zone walls / level past the zone you dont know and go back and learn it.

heres a tip: create a character on EZ server or any other emu server that boosts you up to max level fast to learn or re-learn those zones.
(or use a site / printed maps if your lazy)

especially useful if your a pulling class or lead others into those areas

[Goobles]

you don't have any idea how MQ works at all, do you?

1) Right click mob or player on map
2) /warp t


herp derp


Also can be used in the same manner as ShowEQ --- to tell someone's location in zone.


;);););););););););)

[karsten]

ME TROLL

[isdunyasi]

Ow dude, happy...

[Goobles]

ME TROLL

For Karsten...


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/RiddlN/troll.jpg

[Messianic]

If you can't figure out how to use eqatlas/google in a browser while you play...

[Foxx]

yes, i used MQ.

hacker, someone ban this dirtbag

[toddfx]

Speaking of maps, I've always really wanted to take this map and print it out on really large parchment, age it, and hang it on my wall.

http://potshot.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/norrath_final.jpg?w=645

[karsten]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/RiddlN/troll.jpg

[Nirgon]

God forbid you learn the zones rather than staring at the arrow moving around the map.

[bulbousaur]

I have mixed feelings about this change. Yes, it's classic. However, I got together with a couple friends a few weeks ago and we had been trying to get one of them to try p99 for a while (after he'd played original EQ from 2000-2005). That happened to be the day maps were removed.

We started Noobs in Freeport just to noob around for a while. After roaming around for 20 minutes unable to find anything or each other, the consensus was, oh well - move on to another game. Didn't feel like alt-tabbing, etc.

I'm still playing, but doubt he ever will.

[Aadill]

I have mixed feelings about this change. Yes, it's classic. However, I got together with a couple friends a few weeks ago and we had been trying to get one of them to try p99 for a while (after he'd played original EQ from 2000-2005). That happened to be the day maps were removed.

We started Noobs in Freeport just to noob around for a while. After roaming around for 20 minutes unable to find anything or each other, the consensus was, oh well - move on to another game. Didn't feel like alt-tabbing, etc.

I'm still playing, but doubt he ever will.

You see, one of the problems with this is that Freeport doesn't have too many nooks and crannies. If one would've moved and the other stayed you would've eventually found each other.

Back in the day, I bought EQ and my friend watched me play in Freeport. He went out and bought it and started in Qeynos. He trekked across the Karanas at level 6 and we ended up meeting up in West Freeport after I made a run to the Arcane Academy on a new character that he hadn't seen. We became online friends and only then did we realize we actually knew each other in real life.

If you two can't each other in the same zone then yeah it is time to move on... but I really do get irked by this "MUST HAVE MAPS TO DO ANYTHING" mindset.. just explore and eventually you'll run into each other.

[Messianic]

I have mixed feelings about this change. Yes, it's classic. However, I got together with a couple friends a few weeks ago and we had been trying to get one of them to try p99 for a while (after he'd played original EQ from 2000-2005). That happened to be the day maps were removed.

We started Noobs in Freeport just to noob around for a while. After roaming around for 20 minutes unable to find anything or each other, the consensus was, oh well - move on to another game. Didn't feel like alt-tabbing, etc.

I'm still playing, but doubt he ever will.

2-3 minutes of alt-tabbing vs 20 minutes of wandering...? =/

Sorry, not sympathetic. Maybe I had to print stuff out back in 2000 because my computer sucked too much to alt-tab, but I still used internet resources...

[Ravenlof]

quit the qq and use the interwebs like the rest of us.

[vinx]

After roaming around for 20 minutes unable to find anything or each other, the consensus was, oh well - move on to another game.
just wow lol

This is seriously not the game for anyone that cant play for 20mins without accomplishing something or being given instant gratification.
EQ takes more dedication then playing wow or a FPS

[Kika Maslyaka]

Honestly, I like in game maps, but not ugly LoY kind, but how they done say in WoW - you explore an area, it becomes revealed on your map - it sort of how it worked in older RPGs like say Baldurs Gate, and I think it adds to lore and immersion.
Its actually quite logical too - as your char explores the world, he takes notes of where he has been and where is what.

Some may argue that it makes game easier, but honestly its only navigation part of things.

People say maps are not classic, yet back in 99 the community was BEGGING Verant to add in-game maps. If verant would have done it during the "classical" era, rather than during LoY, no one now would screaming how much they hate maps :D

And yes some places are very confusing beyond believe. First time I played Dark Elf it took me 45 min to find my way from 3rd gate to Nektulos. On other hand I know places like Blackburrow and Qeynos like a back of my hand

Of course whatever we think of maps essentially irrelevant, as the people who run this server intend to make it exactly as it was, even if it means "dumbing" things down (like removing UI control options, forcing old models etc). Just accept it ;)

[raptorak]

Some changes to EQ over the years made it a better game.

Maps and removal of hybrid penalties are up there among the best.

While you are at it, fix humans and give them the 10% xp bonus they were SUPPOSED to have rather than giving a bonus to halflings which is an error in the first place.

[nilbog]

After roaming around for 20 minutes unable to find anything or each other, the consensus was, oh well - move on to another game. Didn't feel like alt-tabbing, etc.


wow. If not having in game maps(which were only in newbie zones) made your friends leave, then I doubt anything past newbie lands would have made them stay.

Some changes to EQ over the years made it a better game.

Maps and removal of hybrid penalties are up there among the best.

While you are at it, fix humans and give them the 10% xp bonus they were SUPPOSED to have rather than giving a bonus to halflings which is an error in the first place.

no

[Kevlar]

While you are at it, fix humans and give them the 10% xp bonus they were SUPPOSED to have rather than giving a bonus to halflings which is an error in the first place.

Halflings deserve it just for being so damn stupid looking.

[stormlord]

I kind of felt the same way when they removed spell descriptions. I even made a post about that back when I noticed it. As far as maps are concerned, the only maps that worked were the ones in the towns. That didn't bother me at all. Even further, the map didn't show where the other group members were (like in later client versions). That was one of the things I didn't like as a ranger on live because it always made me feel warm and fuzzy inside when a group member needed me for tracking. When they added the symbol for other group members then nobody needed me to find each other. Anyway, the removal of maps here doesn't bother me, but its presence never bothered me either.

Stamina regeneration still hasn't been added to the game. Why're they so quick to remove other things but stamina regeneration is still on the back burner? But anyway, whatever. Tomorrow is another day.

[stormlord]

wow. If not having in game maps(which were only in newbie zones) made your friends leave, then I doubt anything past newbie lands would have made them stay.



no
You make a good point, but the towns, particularly, seem to cause a gut reaction to look for a map. Needing to find banks, merchants, guilds, etc. Moving quickly through them saves time, but not your life (like in a dungeon).

Not only that, but it will encourage people to use MQ2 to track.

It's true that what we have now isn't much different, but why take chances?

I say this with others in mind, not myself. I'm fine with the change. I never liked maps.

[Thulack]

You make a good point, but the towns, particularly, seem to cause a gut reaction to look for a map. Needing to find banks, merchants, guilds, etc. Moving quickly through them saves time, but not your life (like in a dungeon).

Not only that, but it will encourage people to use MQ2 to track.

It's true that what we have now isn't much different, but why take chances?

I say this with others in mind, not myself. I'm fine with the change. I never liked maps.

If someone is gonna use MQ its not to find a bank thats for sure. Someone gonna take the time to download and setup MQ when they can just open a web browser and find one of the many sites that has EQ maps so you can see where your going is pointless. If they are downloading MQ its not to take place of a map.

[stormlord]

If someone is gonna use MQ its not to find a bank thats for sure. Someone gonna take the time to download and setup MQ when they can just open a web browser and find one of the many sites that has EQ maps so you can see where your going is pointless. If they are downloading MQ its not to take place of a map.
I'm not so sure about that. The other day I saw someone at a merchant and then I turned to the merchant window for 5 seconds. Then I looked back and the person was gone. I did a /who and hte person was not in the zone. I'm pretty sure they were a bard. I didn't report because I don't have enough information and the person was /anon. I wrote their name down just in case I see them again. But anyway, don't assume that people won't have the desire to cheat.

I'm not a cheater myself. I'm playing the devils advocate.

[nilbog]

Stamina regeneration still hasn't been added to the game. Why're they so quick to remove other things but stamina regeneration is still on the back burner? But anyway, whatever. Tomorrow is another day.

I recently posted this, but I'll do it again. We've tried twice to recreate stamina functionality, but it was plagued with client limitations. Hopefully now that we have minor control over the client, it is something that can happen.


Not only that, but it will encourage people to use MQ2 to track.


I sincerely hope map removal compels people to use mq... because now we can detect it. The sooner we get rid of these people the better.

[Otto]

I sincerely hope map removal compels people to use mq... because now we can detect it. The sooner we get rid of these people the better.

Best quote on the forums to date

[Resil]

Rogean training a n00b to guided by self whitout map as he would like in Red1999 server.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKOwXcdgMoA&feature=player_embedded

[Bellum]

Gamefaqs: kickin it like it's 1999.


Actually, Gamefaqs page on EQ has next to nothing. What gives?!

[Hobby]

Rogean training a n00b to guided by self whitout map as he would like in Red1999 server.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKOwXcdgMoA&feature=player_embedded

I love it.

[ilyaz]

I want my map back, this is some backaswards evolution.

[Kimja]

There were no maps in 1999! Sense Heading is your friend. I love the fact that there is no map, makes it much more realistic to when I first started this excellent game!

Kimja

[Kika Maslyaka]

yes very realistic , specially when you drop a rusty sword on the ground the tip of a handle always points North... :rolleyes:

[Kevlar]

There were no maps in 1999! Sense Heading is your friend. I love the fact that there is no map, makes it much more realistic to when I first started this excellent game!

Kimja

Yeah two years later take the maps away. No one liked nerfs in 1999 and they don't like them now.

This was a silly change.

[Dagon313]

There's always the EQ Atlas SOE released just after PoP came out - I picked up a copy and wound up heavily annotating it. They go for less than $3 on amazon now (if you don't mind used copies, that is). Link for the curious (http://www.amazon.com/Everquest-Atlas-Myrist-Ryan-Barker/dp/0972149503/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316919360&sr=8-1)

I gave my copy away when I quit playing on Live, but since I've started up on p99 I snagged a couple copies.