Trader exemption, thoughts?

[Loke]

So a recent thread in RnF about a player being banned over 2boxing on his trader made think of this, curious what the community/devs think...

Obviously the anti-2boxing rules in place on this server are intended to promote social interaction in our community. Let me first say, that I think it has been absolutely vital to the success of this server. While I enjoy the social aspect of the game, I have no problem admitting that if 2boxing were allowed here it would drastically change my play style - almost certainly to the detriment of the community.

That being said, there exists various aspects of this game in which the social interaction of two characters does not cause any cross-over. By this I mean, a character doing trade skills or selling in EC will have no, or little effect on a player search for an EXP group. Like wise, when a single player wants to partake in more than one of these aspects, they must choose between the two. If a player chooses to experience, other players engaged in trading lose out on the wares that player would have bought or sold had they decided to play there trader. Like wise, if the player chooses to trade, the pool of possible players to group with is diminished, possibly having a negative impact on players searching for other players to group with.

Now, I am not sure of the technical aspects involved with policing players acting with two characters in the same aspect of the game - but if it were possible to say, allow multiboxing only within the limits of EC, or maybe a level limit, like if a character is L1 (i.e. a trader) they can multibox. These are just a couple of the possible ideas I came up with in the past 2-3 minutes, so I haven't put much thought into the possibility of them, or whether or not another, better, option exists. It just seems to me that if there were some way to regulate that players who wanted to trade and level were allowed to, there would be a net benefit to the server through increased activity in EC as well as freeing players to conduct whatever actions they want on their primary characters (be it farming, tracking, leveling, etc).

I'm aware there are some possibilities for abuse here - both with players trying to take advantage of whatever system would be used to regulate it, as well as assisting those who engaged in farming for extended periods of time - however, my opinion (and it could be wrong) is that the benefit we would see would outweigh any negative caused by the few players that would attempt to use the ability to trade while playing their primary character.

Obviously the guy who broke the rules that prompted my post broke the rules - I don't know/care about his situation really and am in no way trying to say that what he did should be acceptable under the current rules. Basically I just saw that the intent of 2-boxing rule in that particular situation didn't really apply, so that maybe there was the possibility for improvement.

So yea, curious what other players/staff think.

[Aadill]

The problem is the very reason you stated for having it: multiple facets of the game can be played at the same time. It doesn't matter if that means one character is healing or tanking or selling or tradeskilling - two unrelated things are happening at the same time.

Think back to when /ooc was global. People sold things from every zone and when you went to buy something you just ran to wherever they are and bought it (or they would port to a bank and then go back to xping). There was no specific role of a character as you could do it all.

Besides, if you have two clients open where one requires you to watch text for items you want to buy or sell and the other requires you to be focused on pulling/killing/healing... someone is going to think they can multitask when they can't. I don't want to be in a group with someone who isn't paying attention.

[nilbog]

So yea, curious what other players/staff think.

no

[Loke]

no

No because it would be difficult/time consuming/impossible to implement, or no because you don't like the idea in general? Just curious.

Aadill, I personally don't see the problem with players partaking in multiple aspects of the game at the same time. What was so horrible with someone in your exp group also auctioning their items during an EXP group back when we had global ooc? I personally didn't have a problem with it.

I get what you're saying about players possibly being distracted by their other character - but that doesn't really get to the main idea of the 2boxing rule. The rule's intention as I understand it is to promote social interaction by limiting the self-sufficiency of an individual player by limiting them to one character. There are countless distractions that hinder a players ability to play - listening to music, watching movies, taking care of kids... I can't speak for everyone, but when I'm playing my character, 95% of the time I'm doing something else as well (reading, watching a movie, etc) - allowing a trader character would only add one additional option among the countless others that players already have for activities to distract them. Basically, I don't think you'll see much of a difference - if a player is willing to trade and play, they're also willing to watch a movie and play, or read a book and play.. trading would just substitute for whatever activity they did before they were able to trade.

So I guess I'm not really disagreeing with your final point there Aadill, more just saying that players who get distracted by multitasking are going to be distracted whether or not they are allowed to trade while playing their primary character.

[druziil]

Time management is an important part of classic EQ. This would break the game. As another poster mentioned people would be toggling and not pay atention to their group. Essentialy you would be instituting a bazaar with anon afk sell bots.

[Aadill]

The main difference between those other activities and trading are that none of them provide an in-game benefit; I cannot make money AND get EXP by watching The Mighty Ducks II.

Frankly if this rule were allowed I'd rather have bazaar put into place where the character is literally stuck in one zone and you'd have to deliver the items to the merchant. With the advent of the new P99 price wiki that Ravhin is working on, pricing wouldn't go out of control if people did some research and the best of both worlds could be attained. The problem is that requires a means to make all of that happen (easily doable) that the staff doesn't want to spend time on because they've already made their decision.

[Atmas]

Though I understand where you are coming from I am not really down with this idea.

It was really a classic aspect of the game to travel to a location to sell your wares. Also from a game quality perspective I see implementing what you are asking for as probably time consuming and likely to be abused.

I would rather see an auction channel created than that be allowed, and I don't really want either.

[Loke]

I guess I don't really agree with the "classic" argument because in classic I often mutli-box'd both to experience and to trade. Limiting players to one play character is already non-classic (not arguing against it, as I said in my first post). If anything, reducing the restrictions of the anti-2boxing rule (i.e. allowing traders) would actually make the game MORE classic.

I don't necessarily disagree with you guys - I just think that the importance of the 2boxing rules are limited mostly to the fact that they promote grouping and social interaction. Reducing what a player is able to accomplish while online (i.e. trade and level) to my knowledge was not one of the intended reasons for implementing the 2boxing rules. I guess it is from that perspective that I felt this would be a good idea: keeping the social benefits the rule gives us but doing away with the restrictions on activities not tied directly to social interaction.

[Baa]

I love EC, however the only time I can actually really trade there is sat and sun mornings (GMT +8) - I don't think I would want to have a trade mule sitting there however I would not mind seeing a global trade chat again... I know it is not classic and prob won't happen but I can always dream!

[Loke]

I love EC, however the only time I can actually really trade there is sat and sun mornings (GMT +8) - I don't think I would want to have a trade mule sitting there however I would not mind seeing a global trade chat again... I know it is not classic and prob won't happen but I can always dream!

I honestly would support a global trade channel too (especially if it were something you could opt to join or not). While I understand it isn't classic, it wouldn't be an issue if not for other non-classic aspects of the server. Having the ability to join/leave would also allow players who disliked the non-classic feel of it to opt out (if trading moved there completely, the player in search of their classic feel would just have to join upon entering EC I guess).

I'm not trying to complain - it is just that there are few things that bother me more about P99 than having to sit in EC and try to sell stuff, or pay someone else a cut of my items value to sell them for me (both of which are non-classic experiences for me).

A global channel seems like a much easier way to accomplish the same goal of allowing a multibox'd trader, without the issues of abuse or difficulty with setting up.

[Aadill]

At one point Rogean *was* working on getting chat channels working.

[pickled_heretic]

i dislike pretty much everything about EC. I guess I prefer the exploration and discovery aspect to MMOs and generally trading just gets in the way of it. I would much rather have a bazaar or AH instead of the current system.

Failing that, I would definitely not be in favor of a system that endorsed the haggle barons we have today in EC. It's not something that I, or many players would choose to take advantage of. If they want to do it, fine, but they shouldn't be able to do it while they're grouped with me, dividing their attention. I have to devote my whole attention to my current task, they should also.

[Vidrata]

I wish two boxing was allowed, then I wouldnt have to bug my other half to have eq open in the background when I play while she's doing stuff on her computer =P

Also, Im gonna have to say no to global channels. I prefer the feeling of being "alone" when Im out far away with no one else in the zone to shout at. Global channels diminish the "size" of the world by always being connected to everyone else. Guild/group channels are somewhat different due to the size of your guild; it could be busy or empty.

[Palemoon]

Time management is an important part of classic EQ. This would break the game. As another poster mentioned people would be toggling and not pay atention to their group. Essentialy you would be instituting a bazaar with anon afk sell bots.

Which is why I was not pleased to hear they are going to allow you to play on blue99 and red99 at the same time.

XPing on your red99 toon and alt tabbing to your trader every now and then to spam some auction lines in EC along with the other 200 people doing the same thing.

Or even better, camp your raid mob with your afk guild while you are really all playing on red99. Its gonna take poop socking on blue to a whole NEW level. joy

[Vidrata]

Which is why I was not pleased to hear they are going to allow you to play on blue99 and red99 at the same time.

XPing on your red99 toon and alt tabbing to your trader every now and then to spam some auction lines in EC along with the other 200 people doing the same thing.

Or even better, camp your raid mob with your afk guild while you are really all playing on red99. Its gonna take poop socking on blue to a whole NEW level. joy

omg, not classic!

[citizen1080]

Global chat? Do you really want to have to listen to Armani rant about red99 while xping in Seb?

[SwordNboard]

Might as well put in the bazaar. Aaannnddd.. No.

[Kevlar]

I don't know, I think some of the things I missed the most about live are the global chat channels and the shared bank slots. No more crying over someone stealing your loot with shared bank.

[Loke]

Also, Im gonna have to say no to global channels. I prefer the feeling of being "alone" when Im out far away with no one else in the zone to shout at. Global channels diminish the "size" of the world by always being connected to everyone else. Guild/group channels are somewhat different due to the size of your guild; it could be busy or empty.

Even in an opt in/out situation? You can still feel alone by just not joining them...

[Ennoia]

The problem is the very reason you stated for having it: multiple facets of the game can be played at the same time. It doesn't matter if that means one character is healing or tanking or selling or tradeskilling - two unrelated things are happening at the same time.

Think back to when /ooc was global. People sold things from every zone and when you went to buy something you just ran to wherever they are and bought it (or they would port to a bank and then go back to xping). There was no specific role of a character as you could do it all.

Besides, if you have two clients open where one requires you to watch text for items you want to buy or sell and the other requires you to be focused on pulling/killing/healing... someone is going to think they can multitask when they can't. I don't want to be in a group with someone who isn't paying attention.

Healing and tanking are totally related, but I see what you're saying and totally agree.

[snorri]

A potential way to do it would be to allow specific accounts as 'box' accounts. The accounts would automatically work around the IP restrictions, but any character created on the account would be unable to obtain any experience. All characters would be permanently level 1. Thus, they could be used for item transfers (avoiding the "Soandso ripped me off!" petitions/threads) and, if you're willing to run them out there, EC mules. (Though the EC Mules would end in hilarity/tragedy when someone inevitably trains a skeleton through the tunnel)

I understand the admins not wanting it, though. Fostering community through trust. Finding someone responsible who won't rip you off when twinking an alt is part of getting to know the people on the server. If I was going to all the trouble of getting my precious stacks of spider silk off Kunark to my tailor, I would spend time to find someone who is less likely to destroy them and laugh at me.

[Lazortag]

Is there a problem currently that needs fixing? Why not just keep things the way they are? I like that idea.

[astuce999]

One aspect that I don't believe has been discussed in this thread is the fact that a lot of people don't like to spend their active time trading.

This means that if they have stuff to sell they will go to the tunnel and sell at rock bottom prices if they have to (much to the pleasure of people who do the buy low sell high thing) so that they can go back to xp'ing or tradeskilling or whatever other activity they prefer.

People who also don't play during prime time hours and go buy/sell during low times also have to deal with a different economy, sometimes they will settle on buying lesser items instead of BiS because that is all that is available.

These are classic pressures on the EQ-nomy that all died when the bazaar went live, and that I think would be very detrimental to p99 if this type of change were implemented.

Being only able to interact through one character at any given time breathes life into many aspects of the game and greatly enhances player immersion. Dismissing its impact and trying to erode it through exemptions of any kind will only bring about the game's downfall; an unforeseen lesson harshly displayed in the real game's expansions.

'Stuce

[Azu]

way i look at it is its not fair to those who do not wish to box and have to travel to EC personal to buy and sell. being allowed to box a trader would give that player an extra edge over the market, so i can see why it would not be allowed.

[Bockscar]

We'd have 600 people sitting in EC just blindly spamming a WTS/WTB macro every thirty seconds and not responding to tells a lot of the time because the spam would flood it out or they were busy playing the game on the other account. Use the trade forum if you don't want to sit in EC being an actual trader.

[Zenlina]

I think just bring back global Auctioning, i mean you can turn off auction if you didnt want to get spammed by it. Since the new red p99 launching, the p99 blue pop avg dropping around the 300-500 mark at peak time. Originally the global auction was switched off because we were breaking the 500 bracket avg.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8047

But now that the server seems to be less and less populated wouldnt it be variable to turn it back on. I think a poll like before would agree having it back isn't a bad idea.

[Harrison]

EC is a waste of time and it sucks dick.

Any improvements are welcome.

[Amelinda]

no

[Thulack]

I think just bring back global Auctioning, i mean you can turn off auction if you didnt want to get spammed by it. Since the new red p99 launching, the p99 blue pop avg dropping around the 300-500 mark at peak time. Originally the global auction was switched off because we were breaking the 500 bracket avg.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8047

But now that the server seems to be less and less populated wouldnt it be variable to turn it back on. I think a poll like before would agree having it back isn't a bad idea.

There have been atleast 700+ the last 2 weeks during east coast peak times.

[Nizzarr]

This sounds like a nightmare for staff to deal with.

big no here

[Extunarian]

I like the fact that people have to choose how to use their time. Opportunity cost is a big part of this game.

I usually get the short end of the stick on trades because I choose to spend as little time as possible there.

Some people get rich by spending all of their time there, but they can't level or farm items themselves.

[Vondra]

I like it the way it is

[Otto]

I like the fact that people have to choose how to use their time. Opportunity cost is a big part of this game.

I usually get the short end of the stick on trades because I choose to spend as little time as possible there.

Some people get rich by spending all of their time there, but they can't level or farm items themselves.

This. I don't care about playing the trading game... I look for a decent deal or maybe to help someone else out or even fix something I was a bit of a jerk about and then get back to playing the real game.

[Noser]

Seems like a bad idea but props for being a Ron Paul supporter. woo