Warrior - Dex or Stam

[mokfarg]

I was researching different forum post on starting stats suggestions and it seems to be a debate to whether a new warrior should go stam or dex. If one was going to raid later and choose a large race such as a Ogre or a Troll should they put their starting stats in Dex or Stam?

In the end which will be more beneficial or will it end up being the same results? If you put points in Dex in the beginning will this free up gear slots for more stam items. If you choose Stam in the beginning will it give you more options for HP items.

[Supreme]

The number one killer of players in Everquest is lack of HPs.

[aresprophet]

At 60, 25 stamina is 150 HP. That's a lot of HP. The number of times you dip below that amount in a group is likely to be minimal, but if it does happen it's the difference between life and death.

25 DEX is something like a .15 proc-per-minute increase at all levels. That's not a big jump, and not every fight where you get an "extra" proc will be the difference between keeping or losing aggro.

Hit points do you no good if you lose aggro; procs do you no good if you're dead. I'd lean toward STA if you plan on playing your warrior a lot 50+, but if you're like me and get alt-itis you may prefer DEX.

This argument will also never be satisfactorily resolved.

Edit: itemization choice between DEX and STA is often a false dichotomy; in most slots the ideal item (high AC + HP or DEX or STR) is evident and there is no real alternative. You'll always want 5/55 rings over 6str/6dex rings. You wouldn't pick an Exe Hood over an SSB (or maybe a Hammerhead post-50 since it gives more HP). There are few occasions where you have a truly legitimate choice between DEX and HP in a single slot, it's usually a much simpler decision.

[pickled_heretic]

as a large race: if the absolute only thing you ever care about is raiding, you should probably go stam. if you think you will ever be in a situation where you are not always 100% buffed to the max, you should go dex.

at the end of the day neither of these investments will mean much of a difference.

[beentheredonethat]

i used to have an iksar sk. ended up putting points partially into dex. it makes enough of a difference. Stamina isn't much, at 60 it's less than one hit from a mob.

Granted it's all additive, I liked the results of Dex. And I tried both, it felt a lot more solid of a fight when I was more Dex oriented and missed a lot less.

[maverixdamighty]

as a large race it's very easy to max sta is if you are raiding decent content. Go dex.

[feste]

The number one killer of players in Everquest is lack of HPs.

haha this is awesome

[mokfarg]

Sounds like for warriors it is still undecided on whether max benefit comes from choosing dex or stam starting stats for a large race such as an ogre

[Tumdumm]

personally went dex for the theoretical proc rate increase

[Rhaj]

Sounds like for warriors it is still undecided on whether max benefit comes from choosing dex or stam starting stats for a large race such as an ogre

Same for the smaller races too I guess.

[citizen1080]

dex

[aresprophet]

Same for the smaller races too I guess.

What's best for one will be best for the other, because with the exception of 75 AGI there is no "good enough" level for either stat; you get the same returns for every point put into it. This only changes when buffs start to get you to 255, but that's a scenario you can probably gear around.

[mokfarg]

dex

Would not the warrior who put all points thought in stamina in the beginning after all gear with +HP stats have more hitpoints and the warrior who put his starting points in dex?

[Cujoy]

I'll tell you one thing, when I made my first char in live I put like 5 points into Stam. I was a woodelf so I didn't have a lot of stam to begin with. I think we were well into Luclin before I maxed my stam stats. My suggestion is always Stam even on a warrior.

[Yukahwa]

Definitely stam on weak warriors. I think its questionable whether to go dex or stam for ogres because they can max stam a lot easier than others.

I say stamina still though. It means you can wear more + resist gear and still have maximum HP's. Its the right thing to do.

[Alkorin]

Dex.

25 more hp is irrelevant if you never proc and can't hold aggro.

[mokfarg]

Some state though there is marginal benefit for the 25 points in dex as well and especially at the end when dex is on everything supposedly.

[Cribanox]

This is EQ Classic, stats don't actually matter.

EDIT: Except STR for when you get over weight.

[Mcbard]

Slow mallets > dex for holding agro on encounters where burst dps is used (any high end raiding). Do with that knowledge what you will :P

[Alkorin]

Slow mallets > dex for holding agro on encounters where burst dps is used (any high end raiding). Do with that knowledge what you will :P

Well, sure. Expensive way to xp though!

[Snaggles]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=303374&postcount=144

If the numbers are valid, in the primary hand:

105 dex 1 proc per min
205 dex 1.5 proc per min
305 dex 2 procs per min

For the offhand

105 dex .5 proc per min
205 dex .75 proc per min
305 dex 1 procs per min


For 25 dex you are getting an extra .125% chance of proccing the average weapon per minute in the main hand. Of course, some weapons have more/less proc chance so that scales somewhat.

Do with that what you want.

[pickled_heretic]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=303374&postcount=144

If the numbers are valid, in the primary hand:

105 dex 1 proc per min
205 dex 1.5 proc per min
305 dex 2 procs per min

For the offhand

105 dex .5 proc per min
205 dex .75 proc per min
305 dex 1 procs per min


For 25 dex you are getting an extra .125% chance of proccing the average weapon per minute in the main hand. Of course, some weapons have more/less proc chance so that scales somewhat.

Do with that what you want.

the post says in the bottom that it's different for p1999, 0.5PPM @ 0 DEX -> 2.0PPM @ 255 DEX. therefore 1 proc a minute equates to 170 dex, so 25 dex is going to mean approximately .15 additional procs per minute on the main hand and presumably .07 procs per minute on your offhand for a total of about .22 more procs per minute. how many hours is your character going to spend in combat over his lifetime? it's going to mean literally hundreds of additional procs over the lifetime of your character. is that more important than having 100 more hp or so at level 60? that's for you to decide, imo a case can be made either way.

and technically your percentages are meaningless, since you need to have a base value in order to calculate a percentage. if we use the base 75 dex you will have an average of 1.41 ppm for a dual wielder, with an additional 25 dex that becomes 1.63 ppm which is about a 15% proc rate increase which is pretty substantial by most accounts.

edit: actually doing this and seeing the numbers makes a pretty compelling case for dex imo, if i ever twink a warrior i will probably put all points into dex.

[aresprophet]

the post says in the bottom that it's different for p1999, 0.5PPM @ 0 DEX -> 2.0PPM @ 255 DEX. therefore 1 proc a minute equates to 170 dex, so 25 dex is going to mean approximately .15 additional procs per minute on the main hand and presumably .07 procs per minute on your offhand for a total of about .22 more procs per minute. how many hours is your character going to spend in combat over his lifetime? it's going to mean literally hundreds of additional procs over the lifetime of your character. is that more important than having 100 more hp or so at level 60? that's for you to decide, imo a case can be made either way.

and technically your percentages are meaningless, since you need to have a base value in order to calculate a percentage. if we use the base 75 dex you will have an average of 1.41 ppm for a dual wielder, with an additional 25 dex that becomes 1.63 ppm which is about a 15% proc rate increase which is pretty substantial by most accounts.

edit: actually doing this and seeing the numbers makes a pretty compelling case for dex imo, if i ever twink a warrior i will probably put all points into dex.

This is good math, I hadn't really run the numbers.

For comparison's sake, 1 STA gives 1 HP for 10 levels for warriors (so 3 at 30, 4 at 4, 6 at 60). You're talking about a 150 HP difference at 60, which is going to be less than a 15% increase in HP.

15% proc increase or <15% HP increase? There's still a decent argument for the HP: you can't hold aggro if you're dead, and I know my SK has ended up in low-hp situations where that much would have been the difference between a CH landing or death. If you want to be more idiot-proof for healers the STA is probably the better choice, but if you're powergaming with a solid group you'll want the extra procs so your DPS can push harder.

[mokfarg]

This is good math, I hadn't really run the numbers.

For comparison's sake, 1 STA gives 1 HP for 10 levels for warriors (so 3 at 30, 4 at 4, 6 at 60). You're talking about a 150 HP difference at 60, which is going to be less than a 15% increase in HP.

15% proc increase or <15% HP increase? There's still a decent argument for the HP: you can't hold aggro if you're dead, and I know my SK has ended up in low-hp situations where that much would have been the difference between a CH landing or death. If you want to be more idiot-proof for healers the STA is probably the better choice, but if you're powergaming with a solid group you'll want the extra procs so your DPS can push harder.

Compelling evidence for dex. Why would warriors then want the 25 extra stamina at the beginning

[Samoht]

I think we were well into Luclin before I maxed my stam stats. My suggestion is always Stam even on a warrior.

this. always this. other stats are going to cap or at least approach diminishing returns in velius. stam will never cap on this server.

[maverixdamighty]

the reason people are saying dex over sta for large races is because at 60 with raid buffs you are probably going to cap stamina as opposed to probably not ever capping dex.

[Glitch]

TEAM AGILITY

[Samoht]

the reason people are saying dex over sta for large races is because at 60 with raid buffs you are probably going to cap stamina as opposed to probably not ever capping dex.

not true, even for large races. dex is easy to cap; stam isn't.

[Huggie]

hmm

[karsten]

the reason stam is important is because it is the most important stat for a warrior. the reason dex makes sense is that you can max stam as a warrior relatively easily. it's a similar analogy to the reason hasbinbad posted way back when that the best starting stat for an end game rogue is stamina.

basically you pump the one stat that your gear can't max out. also, i will give you the tidbit of advice that anything mardur says is true, and you should read his posts like you read the bible: he is a cornucopia of knowledge

[nymphloa]

I remade my Warrior in the end purely so I could pump all the starting points into dex, it made a big difference to my proc rate, and my agro of course.

Hps and AC are easy enough to find on items, no point having that extra 150hps if you can not keep Agro.

Agro >>> AC >>> Hps

That has always been my way of rating a good tank in EQ.

Peace.

[Orruar]

I remade my Warrior in the end purely so I could pump all the starting points into dex, it made a big difference to my proc rate, and my agro of course.

Hps and AC are easy enough to find on items, no point having that extra 150hps if you can not keep Agro.

Agro >>> AC >>> Hps

That has always been my way of rating a good tank in EQ.

Peace.

I've heard several people say that AC is broken here and to only focus on hp. Is this true, or am I the first person to hear lies on the internet?

[mokfarg]

I am still confused to whether you want stamina or dex with your starting points? :confused: Both sides have made very compelling cases for each.

It is much easier for rogues where everyone agrees stamina is the way to go!

[nymphloa]

I am still confused to whether you want stamina or dex with your starting points? :confused: Both sides have made very compelling cases for each.

It is much easier for rogues where everyone agrees stamina is the way to go!

Warriors do not get anything to aid them with agro besides procs/taunt until much later in the games time line. Procs are governed by your Dex...I had played a end game warrior for 11 years on Live, and imo there is nothing worse than losing agro. This may be why I could not live with playing a warrior again through this era of the game, and I went Shadow knight.

So the choice is..

1 - Throw it all into Stamina and have worse agro issues right up until 46+, then get masses of high end loot to bump your Dex and procs rates.

2 - Throw all your points into Dex, proc more, have less agro issues once you get procing weapons that work for your level. This will by no means solve the Warrior agro issue.

Good luck with your choice.

Peace.

[Estu]

I've heard several people say that AC is broken here and to only focus on hp. Is this true, or am I the first person to hear lies on the internet?

Very old bug, long since fixed. AC is good.

[maverixdamighty]

not true, even for large races. dex is easy to cap; stam isn't.

Clearly leads me to believe you have never played a warrior high end...

[mokfarg]

Warriors do not get anything to aid them with agro besides procs/taunt until much later in the games time line. Procs are governed by your Dex...I had played a end game warrior for 11 years on Live, and imo there is nothing worse than losing agro. This may be why I could not live with playing a warrior again through this era of the game, and I went Shadow knight.

So the choice is..

1 - Throw it all into Stamina and have worse agro issues right up until 46+, then get masses of high end loot to bump your Dex and procs rates.

2 - Throw all your points into Dex, proc more, have less agro issues once you get procing weapons that work for your level. This will by no means solve the Warrior agro issue.

Good luck with your choice.

Peace.

Ugh such a gloomy post, makes me want to forget thinking about the warrior in the first place and place a shaman, sk or something