Rogue - Halfing or Barb

[Tappin]

From a non min/max'r point of view, is this pretty huge str/sta advantage of a barb a really big deal outside of end game content? As far as leveling, grouping, etc... What a barb be outputting much higher dps than a halfing?

I'll be leveling with a shaman and monk and have been trying to decide which class to make, and while I'm somewhat sure on rogue, and I like halflings, I'm not sure if I want to make a barb, unless the advantage is pretty game changing. I do like barbs, just not so much as rogues.

Thanks for the input!

[Kassel]

halflings own, barbs are blind

[Shrubwise]

/thread

Sorry but these posts are getting old. Pick a race and play what you like because in the grand scheme of things they're pretty damn even.

[SyanideGas]

Well halfings got xp bonus so it'll go well with your rogue bonus. Double xp for it.

[Crug]

I say go Barb, won't need to worry about being encumbered all the time and worrying about getting plat for strength gear til later, making a halfling rogue made me a sad panda.

[Tarathiel]

wood elves have the most swagger, take me for instance, how many other 50+ wood elf rogues do you know? just sayin...

[Mardur]

From a non min/max'r point of view, is this pretty huge str/sta advantage of a barb a really big deal outside of end game content?

This makes no sense. It's impossible to answer this from a "non min/maxer point of view" considering this is a min/max question. Barbarian Rogues have an advantage in that they a) have the highest values in the 2 most important stats (str/sta) and b) can slam. So... if you want a small dps advantage and the ability to be more flexible with gear choices, go barbarian. If you want a small exp boost go with halfling (nice but nowhere near 2x) or just think the aesthetics of another race are more important than the stat advantage, roll something else.

"Outside of end game content" also gives an advantage to barbarians. If you're not going to be raiding and obtaining the best gear, you won't be capping your stats, which makes your natural attributes even more important.

Anyways, that's my unwanted min/maxer point of view.

[Moonface]

This makes no sense. It's impossible to answer this from a "non min/maxer point of view" considering this is a min/max question. Barbarian Rogues have an advantage in that they a) have the highest values in the 2 most important stats (str/sta) and b) can slam. So... if you want a small dps advantage and the ability to be more flexible with gear choices, go barbarian. If you want a small exp boost go with halfling (nice but nowhere near 2x) or just think the aesthetics of another race are more important than the stat advantage, roll something else. That's my unwanted min/maxer point of view.

You forgot to mention Barbs have leet SV cold.

[Mardur]

If we're gonna start nitpicking then Dwarf is mentionable for their SV Magic :)

[SyanideGas]

If we're gonna start nitpicking then Dwarf is mentionable for their SV Magic :)

+1

[Taterskin]

Gnomes are superior rogues.

[aegohely]

gnome rogue in mithril armor, and people start asking you for cleric buffs.

[Kevlar]

eyepatch graphic human. best looking classic toon by far. though I will always have a soft spot for fem barbies. halflings look like ass-lings. Avoid!

[azeth]

eyepatch graphic barbarian. best looking classic toon by far.!

[Bubbles]

female halflings have pointy hats.

you can't eff with a pointy hat.

[Mcbard]

Dwarf!

[Cyrano]

Go barb, camp a DE mask and roll around with that illusion on. The beauty of being a rogue is that we don't HAVE to look like our actual race.

DE with the right item combos look best IMO.

[Snaggles]

Race has very little impact for a rogue. I think my halfling had starting points put in dex :p.

Stamina has a horrid conversion for the class so the hps will be minimal. The strength is nice but the 30ish attack wont make much of a dps difference. With sham buffs str is pretty easy to max or at least get close.

Choose the race and starting area you like the most. Your damage will come from the class mechanics and weapons (mainly the primary). Once epiced all rogues fall into the "insane" dept of damage.

Oh and human/barb vision isnt a problem on p99 like it was on live. Even if so the inky mask gives free ultravison so its null. Race leveling penalty might be noticable tho if side-by-side with a halfling.

[Softcore PK]

Half elf, dark elf and gnome are best rogue races, for obvious reasons (cool factor).

[Tappin]

Think I'm going to do a dwarf rogue... I hadn't thought about it until it was mentioned in this thread... Their STR isn't terribly far behind from a barb, and they are a smaller race, which I prefer.

Thanks for the info :D

[pickled_heretic]

Think I'm going to do a dwarf rogue... I hadn't thought about it until it was mentioned in this thread... Their STR isn't terribly far behind from a barb, and they are a smaller race, which I prefer.

Thanks for the info :D

plus you get the dwarven ninja flip

[Tappin]

Action roll!

[falkun]

Action roll!

Barrel roll (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIkJvY96i8w) damnit!

[Anger]

Halfling exp bonus ftw!

[pickled_heretic]

Barrel roll (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIkJvY96i8w) damnit!

http://www.imgpostr.com/images/1267047526169.jpg

[Tappin]

While on the top of rogues, any recommendations for good starting rogue gear? I have around 3k or so to spend.

[Shannacore]

Always halfling.

[Samoht]

3k might sound like a lot upfront, but it's a lot harder when you're trying to spread 3k out to cover 20 slots (averages to 150/slot)

stuff in that price range: dwarven work boots, executioners hood/blackened iron coif, fire emerald golden/electrum bracelets, jagged bands, gloomwater harpoon, golden amber earrings, bone armplates/wolf-hide sleeves, bloodstained mantle, iksar scaled gloves, brigandine tunic, spiked collar, wraith bone hammer

[pickled_heretic]

3k might sound like a lot upfront, but it's a lot harder when you're trying to spread 3k out to cover 20 slots (averages to 150/slot)

stuff in that price range: dwarven work boots, executioners hood/blackened iron coif, fire emerald electrum bracelets, jagged bands, gloomwater harpoon, golden amber earrings, wolf-hide sleeves, bloodstained mantle

who cares about armor, he's a rogue

buy a good main hand piercer for 3k and fill in the rest with crap imo, that way there's at least 1 slot you won't have to replace for a while

[Envious]

Barb + DE mask = win.

Only thing that is even close is dorf for the ninja roll.

[Snaggles]

who cares about armor, he's a rogue

buy a good main hand piercer for 3k and fill in the rest with crap imo, that way there's at least 1 slot you won't have to replace for a while

+1.

Banded, Plat Fire Wedding Rings, and something like a Slime Coated Harpoon. Not sure the deal with the Jade Chok Prod nerf honestly but if that's even attainable for 3k it would be a game changer.

Playing a rogue with nice stats and a SBD is not the same as a 10+ damage piercer. Backstabb!!! :D

[Samoht]

Slime Coated Harpoon
Jade Chok Prod

You playing a rogue or shaman?

[Snaggles]

You playing a rogue or shaman?

Like I said not sure how the nerf took effect. Did they convert all the prods to Sham only or are there some pre-nerf ones running around?

[pickled_heretic]

Like I said not sure how the nerf took effect. Did they convert all the prods to Sham only or are there some pre-nerf ones running around?

i think he's somehow saying that a rogue shouldn't use those because they have wis on them.

[Samoht]

or maybe it's because one is SHM only, i don't know

[pickled_heretic]

or maybe it's because one is SHM only, i don't know

why'd you quote both of them? why aren't you ignoring me anymore?

[Snaggles]

i think he's somehow saying that a rogue shouldn't use those because they have wis on them.

Ahh. I was semi-retired when that nerf happened. I thought there were some un-nerfed ones still around but they probably cost 3-5 times more.

Frankly any rogue leveling with a 10dmg piercer is pretty lucky. I had the Trident of the 7 Seas in like 2001 in my 40's and was in heaven.

[Tappin]

Yeah.. I have like some banded and jagged bands... other random crap laying around on other toons, I am mainly just looking for weapons.. primarily the Mainhand.. So is the Slime Coated Harpoon best best for my price range?

[citizen1080]

barb

[Tappin]

Would it be worth saving up for a bloodrazor? What do they go for now?

[pickled_heretic]

i can confirm that prenerf chok prods are ingame... idk what they cost though.

[Tappin]

Bob, whats the going rate on Bloodrazors, ATM? I assume you know this? :) :) :)

[aegohely]

think bonerazor are going for about 6k. if you are lucky, you may get one for 5k

[Tappin]

Hmm... 3 delay faster than the other option.. and 2-3k more expensive.. HMMM...

[Snaggles]

Hmm... 3 delay faster than the other option.. and 2-3k more expensive.. HMMM...

Yea and a BMW M3 is hardly faster than a new Mustang at twice the cost. Performance is almost never a straight line.

Being that most of your damage will be from BS for a long time 3 or 5 delay wont leave you high and dry.

[citizen1080]

What they said =)

[Nirgon]

Not sure if backstab is effected by weapon delay. I always believed no, then I saw rogues MH'ing Willsapper over Ragebringer... even in pvp /boggle.

[Snaggles]

Not sure if backstab is effected by weapon delay. I always believed no, then I saw rogues MH'ing Willsapper over Ragebringer... even in pvp /boggle.

It's not, only weapon damage. Later by backstab modifers (like PoP+).

The reason Rogues would go Willsapper and offhand the Ragebringer was for melee damage bonus/speed. 13/20 over 15/25 would earn you more consistent weapon damage at the expense of some high BS numbers. This was a very close call tho and mostly because the WS couldn't go offhand.

I never got amazing loot in SoV but did primary a Vyemm Fang (13/17) and offhand the RB. Did the willsapper for a while too as it was great for solo and duels due to the slow.

[Vondra]

Barb seem to be the best race statistically. You don't even have to stay in barb form since as a rogue you have access to the illusions if you don't want to look like a barb.

[Rainflush]

The racial modifiers are displayed on the P99 Wiki, there's really not much to it in that regard. If you haven't got the min-max attitude then the simple answer is "pick whichever race you want", if you like dwarves, pick a dwarf, if you'd like to try being this or that, then do it. Hell, pick a Dark Elf if you want, fuck that shitty mask.

[Tappin]

Dwarf can't use Hero Bracer :((((( Any suggestions for alternatives?

[Softcore PK]

gnome!

[Crunksta]

Barbs aren't really blind on P99, and they don't look like ghey midgets... Its not hard to get light emitting items anyways. Being large isn't a huge deal with the illusion masks, and shrink pots.

[Tappin]

I mean, any alternatives for wrist items to get, since dwarves can't use hero bracer :( Kind of enjoying dwarf so far, don't really want to switch race just for the bracer. Still considering barb, but dunno yet.

[Snaggles]

I mean, any alternatives for wrist items to get, since dwarves can't use hero bracer :( Kind of enjoying dwarf so far, don't really want to switch race just for the bracer. Still considering barb, but dunno yet.

Don't ever consider a race because of one piece of armor that you will replace at some point. Even race/diety specific quests aren't worth staring at yourself in the mirror everytime you play and think, "why this ugly thing?"

[Tappin]

Don't ever consider a race because of one piece of armor that you will replace at some point. Even race/diety specific quests aren't worth staring at yourself in the mirror everytime you play and think, "why this ugly thing?"

Dwarf can't use Hero Bracer :((((( Any suggestions for alternatives?

I'm asking for alternative for bracers...

[Kevlar]

I'm asking for alternative for bracers...

Ravenscale? Myrlokar?

[Snaggles]

I'm asking for alternative for bracers...

Oh sorry.

http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Special:ClassSlotEquip/Rogue/Wrist

Do a little research yourself. Ya might learn something ;)

[Tappin]

I was doing research, here on the forums :D And by researching here I was provided with a link that I didn't know existed :)

@Kevlar, ty.. I picked up a ravenscale tonight.

[aegohely]

You can also get a jewelcrafter to craft a Fire Emerald Golden Bracelet for you. U can buy the Fire emerald and gold bar from the jewelcraft vendor.
+ 5 str + 3 dex Stat

[Tappin]

Thanks for the tip, aegohely. I'll pick some a pair up. Got a few cheap +3 str earrings tonight and found a grime coated harpoon for 1.2k. Guess I'm sticking with dwarf!

[cadiz]

eyepatch graphic human. best looking classic toon by far. though I will always have a soft spot for fem barbies. halflings look like ass-lings. Avoid!

Yaaaar

[Sithel1988]

i made a halfling rogue last night and put like 15 points to get him to 85 str and like 10 into stamina i think. so now he has 85str 105dex 105agi and like 80 stam maybe. im at school so forgot how i did it lastnight. the extra str into str will help from getting encumbered. plus you might do extra dmg with more str but i dont know.


Sithel, high elf 11 mage, clan crushbone

[Kevlar]

i made a halfling rogue last night and put like 15 points to get him to 85 str and like 10 into stamina i think. so now he has 85str 105dex 105agi and like 80 stam maybe. im at school so forgot how i did it lastnight. the extra str into str will help from getting encumbered. plus you might do extra dmg with more str but i dont know.


Sithel, high elf 11 mage, clan crushbone

STR raises your atk skill, lets you hit higher level mobs easier, raises average dmg but not max dmg.

[Tappin]

I spent around 1500 or so for my dwarf rogue, not including the grime coated spear(that's the name I think...) and his str is currently at 154 I believe. There is something up with his damage i'm not understanding though.

As far as I understood damage, its weapon damage x2 + modifiers after level 28... modifiers being strength and damage bonuses. With my weapon which has 10 damage, I hit for 22 with auto attacks, at level 10.

On a side note, his backstab skill still isn't capped and is already doing like 58 damage.

[Sithel1988]

so my with the points i put into my starting halfling. i have 85 str. 85 stam and 105 dex and 105 agi. think i got a good rogue started? or should i have put more into str?

[Samoht]

I hit for 22 with auto attacks, at level 10.

Sounds level capped

think i got a good rogue started?

If you are looking for advice from a min/max point of view, restart as either barb or dorf and put all points into stam.

[Snaggles]

The dmg cap for melee at level 10 is 29 unless you are heavily buffed via sham/druid. You might squeeze like 32, 33ish. Backstab I'm not sure.

On live i put ALL my points in dex/agil for my halfling. With decent gear and an epic I think my unbuffed str was like 170. Even with like 120 str and good weapons the damage comes from the class and weapons. Stamina has a pretty cruddy return on hps honestly.

I would just level up the one you like the look of. Frankly you're gonna do so much more damage than all other melee's within a football field of your gear it's not even funny.

[Tappin]

Samoht, yeah I think it's capped but I didn't think I'd be doing more than 2x weapon damage until after level 28, which is why it seemed strange to me.

I BS'd a mob in Befallen last night for 80, at level 11, but the average seems to be around 68-72 atm, for my level.

[pickled_heretic]

Samoht, yeah I think it's capped but I didn't think I'd be doing more than 2x weapon damage until after level 28, which is why it seemed strange to me.

I BS'd a mob in Befallen last night for 80, at level 11, but the average seems to be around 68-72 atm, for my level.

you do 2x weapon damage from lvl 1 onward. there is, however, a cap. the cap is around 20 dmg until lvl 11 or so, then it goes up to 28 dmg. if you're using a 14 dmg or less weapon you'll do 2x weapon damage from lvl 11 until you start getting bonus damage from your str.

[Tappin]

until you start getting bonus damage from your str.

What level is that? I thought it was 28 before Kunark.

[pickled_heretic]

What level is that? I thought it was 28 before Kunark.

didn't state the level cause i don't remember. it's 28 or 29 or so. but i don't know.

[Tappin]

So then how is my 10 damage weapon allowing me to hit for 22, at level 10? That's what I was talking about... thats the reason why I said its so strange... I know before Kunark I COULD not do more than 2x weapon damage before level 28 even with level 50 sham str buffing me as a rogue or monk.

[Tappin]

Also, it was 28 pre-Kunark I believe... Not sure about now.

Edit:
Woops, didn't mean to double post.

[Galacticus]

/thread

Sorry but these posts are getting old. Pick a race and play what you like because in the grand scheme of things they're pretty damn even.

Wrong.

[Softcore PK]

It's 20 max hit until 10, 10-19 it's 28 and 20 it's not capped.

i think

[Galacticus]

When and where would a barb want to slam instead of backstab anyway?

[Tappin]

When and where would a barb want to slam instead of backstab anyway?

Do they share a CD? I didn't know that.

[Tappin]

It's 20 max hit until 10, 10-19 it's 28 and 20 it's not capped.

i think

Yeah I know of these caps now. I have a quivering wu's on my monk and was expecting to hit 40 as level 10.. just to find I couldn't break 28 damage lol.

But I still am wondering about the STR damage modifier, like I said, I thought you received no damage bonus from STR until level 28, but I've been hitting for 21 and 22 many times with my 10dmg weapon.

[Darwoth]

halfling will be a lot easier to fight with in dungeons/cramped areas and get backstabs off with imo.

[Samoht]

but halfling stats are incredibly inferior to dorfs

they trade 90ish str/sta for 100 agi - not worth it

they're even more inferior to barb, and going barb will get you slam, but slam is only situational since it shares a cooldown with backstab. if you wanted to be a smaller race just to be a smaller race, go dorf.

[Tappin]

I just spoke with a really twinked lower level rogue in game. He is 20+ now, he has a 12 damage MH weapon, and BEFORE level 18 he said he was hitting for 28 damage. So.. he was doing the cap with auto attacks with a weapon that should be hitting for 24. So I guess STR does modify damage before level 28.

Yeah, can't go wrong with dwarf :) I love mine.

[Snaggles]

I just spoke with a really twinked lower level rogue in game. He is 20+ now, he has a 12 damage MH weapon, and BEFORE level 18 he said he was hitting for 28 damage. So.. he was doing the cap with auto attacks with a weapon that should be hitting for 24. So I guess STR does modify damage before level 28.

Yeah, can't go wrong with dwarf :) I love mine.

For Rogues it's a null topic really. You want biggest damage mainhand for backstabs. At low level a sneak/stab can cut your mobs hps in half. Later it gets more confusing but generally high dmg main-hand.

Solo it's the same gig as anyone when the mainhand dmg bonus maxes out...speed > all.

The damage you do from lvl 1-10 and then 10-20 is irrelevant. At level 14 a cleric can pimp out 73 damage DD's. At that level a harmtouch is around 140 damage. Rogue DPS scales way better than either.

[Tappin]

For Rogues it's a null topic really. You want biggest damage mainhand for backstabs. At low level a sneak/stab can cut your mobs hps in half. Later it gets more confusing but generally high dmg main-hand.

Solo it's the same gig as anyone when the mainhand dmg bonus maxes out...speed > all.

The damage you do from lvl 1-10 and then 10-20 is irrelevant. At level 14 a cleric can pimp out 73 damage DD's. At that level a harmtouch is around 140 damage. Rogue DPS scales way better than either.

Yep, I agree. The damage I do at lower levels isn't a huge deal, I just wanted to know for sure :P Thanks for the information though :) Looking forward to level 28 for sure.

[Snaggles]

Yep, I agree. The damage I do at lower levels isn't a huge deal, I just wanted to know for sure :P Thanks for the information though :) Looking forward to level 28 for sure.

Oh I hear ya :D. It's interesting mechanics regardless. Lvl 20+ should be great for ya.

If you wanna waste money get into poison. It was pretty fun as I recall it. Mostly for surprising folks in duels.

[Tappin]

Ahh, how does it work exactly? I know absolutely nothing about it.

[Snaggles]

Once you make it you right click and apply to mainhand. You sit for about a second. Then on the first or second attack it procs. One time use on classic i think they eventually made it like a short-term proc duration buff, stackable, etc.

Kinda pricey and time consuming but fun. It's situationally helpful too.

http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Skill_Make_Poison

[Chokan]

For offhand wep on a rogue I understand it doesn't matter what skill wep you use. Mainhand piercer for backstab then whatever you want in offhand. Is this correct?

[Snaggles]

For offhand wep on a rogue I understand it doesn't matter what skill wep you use. Mainhand piercer for backstab then whatever you want in offhand. Is this correct?

Best ratio possible, any weapon type that fits.

[Chokan]

Does offhand delay need to be less than mainhand or do they swing independantly?

[Snaggles]

Does offhand delay need to be less than mainhand or do they swing independantly?

Independent.

[Chokan]

Thank you sir.