Paladin - race?

[Softcore PK]

I'm considering making a paladin when Red99 is released, but I'm having a hard time deciding on a race. I have it down to erudite, half elf and high elf because dwarves are the worst race ever and humans are boring. One thing I'm very interested in is the erudite paladin only armor the creation guide speaks of. What exactly is this armor? If it's quested, could a lot of it be done solo? I've somehow never in my EQ career managed to have more than a few kpp at a time, and as a tank gear will be kind of important.

And any half elf paladins that could tell me how the very, very low wisdom has affected you? I would probably dump all starting points into sta, is there a compelling reason not to? High elf paladins: do you think the extra wisdom you get has been much of a blessing?

Really wish I could just be a gnome paladin.

[Dr4z3r]

Do a barrel roll!

[Snaggles]

The Barnacle Breastplate? That one is a quest and you can find a walk-through either on the Wiki page or Zam.

I helped my wife level her high elf to 55 so don't have other race experience. The dwarf pally has the best stats but I can see if you don't like the look. Doing it again I would prob go Erudite for the unique look but stat-wise they are pretty horrible (hence why they get the Shield of the Stalwart Seas).

Half-elf and High-Elf Tunare diety get the Natures Defender as an option in Velious which is a nice semi-epic weapon.

While the Pally doesnt shine in PvP it does well in melee duels because they can last a long time. The high elves are definitely most blessed in the wisdom dept and since their heals approach the 3/1 ratio (heal to mana) it's not a bad route. Even spending some points in str to help with carrying plate wouldn't leave your blue bar gimped.

[Harrison]

Dwarf paladin is the only paladin.

If you make a different race, you are wrong.

[Softcore PK]

dwarves are gross tbh

[mostbitter]

if you play a paladin that isn't a dwarf then you lost already and if your class choice for a pvp server is a paladin with no gear or friends then you lost twice might as well roll wood elf for a third loss or just kill yourself

[SyanideGas]

Dwarf paladin is the only paladin.

If you make a different race, you are wrong.

True statement.

[Softcore PK]

This thread is so not about dwarves.

New question: 1 wis = how many manas for paladins? Is there a formula to figure it out for various levels?

[SyanideGas]

Dwarves are badass though..

[Softcore PK]

I find dwarves ugly. Plus, they're alcoholics and their accent/dialect makes them sound unintelligent.

[Shrubwise]

Plus, they're alcoholics and their accent/dialect makes them sound unintelligent.

What accent/dialect? Don't you go World of Warcraft on our asses. As a matter of fact, Red99 doesn't even want your non-dwarf-having ass

[Softcore PK]

You say, 'Hail, Dirjadak Barbrawler'

Dirjadak Barbrawler says 'Hail to ye too Kenworth, what brings ye to Kaladim`s hall of champions? I am Dirjadak Barbrawler and its gud to meet ye. I pride myself on being one of the finest Warlords to have ever served in Brells Army. However, my days nowadays aren't all that exciting. I just spend me time training young ones that are born into the life of a Kaladim Champion. If you are a [young warrior of Brell] I might have some work for you.'

[mostbitter]

ill never like you after this thread

[SyanideGas]

im tearin up man.... How could you ...even say such a thing!

[Softcore PK]

I grew up on VZ hating dwarves. They would come into GFay uninvited.

[SyanideGas]

Dwarves make the baddest ass classes cause they are so legit

[Softcore PK]

They were always my favorite pvp targets, and I don't think a dwarf ever got the killing shot on me..

[Grahm]

You all are dumb as shit. Half elfs look like the shit, as shit especially with bronze. Any one else looks stupid or plays stupid

[Softcore PK]

You all are dumb as shit. Half elfs look like the shit, as shit especially with bronze. Any one else looks stupid or plays stupid

heyyy tell me about ur manaz

[Softcore PK]

A comparison:
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/6945/bandeddwarffemale.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/847/bandeddwarffemale.jpg/)

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/3318/rohalfelffemale.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/rohalfelffemale.jpg/)

..does this need more explanation? :P

[Shrubwise]

1. Be fair. The dwarf is in chainmail, the half elf is in plate. Dwarves in plate looks sicknasty.
2. You never said you were going to play a female. If you just told us from the start you were going to cyberwhore for sweet pixels then we could have just dismissed you from the beginning. Now you've wasted everyone's time.

[SyanideGas]

course you pick da shittiest picture for the dwarf :p

[Softcore PK]

I dare anyone to find a picture of a dwarf that's cooler than the half elf I posted. It simply cannot be done. Male dwarves, female dwarves, doesn't matter.

They're all gross, uncivilized and stupid.

[SyanideGas]

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z326/Gr8ein/EQ000284.jpg


Do I win?

[Softcore PK]

neckbeard lol

[SyanideGas]

You know its badass! :P

[Softcore PK]

You know its badass! :P

No. That dwarf can't even take care of himself; his hair is all greasy and he has bad skin. Imagine what his breath smells like :s

[karsten]

I didn't read any of this thread but make a high elf because they are the COOLEST

way cooler than heebee for example

[Adnan]

he wins

[mostbitter]

http://zam.zamimg.com/images/i/d/id4520.png

[mostbitter]

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/1992/959773-epic_cleric_super.jpg

[baub]

who cares, you plan on getting a guise right?

[SyanideGas]

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/1992/959773-epic_cleric_super.jpg

badassss

[Yukahwa]

There really are only 2 good choices.

1. Dwarf for being the best in every aspect besides height
2. Human for being the second best in every aspect + being hero height and having a mother effing space ship as a guild hall in Qeynos.

high elf, erudite, and half elf are bad choices. Don't kid yourself into thinking the half elf stats aren't that much worse..they really are.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2mywv8y.jpg

[Diggles]

I'm still trying to figure out why Ektar went half elf.

Human all the way bro

[loopholbrook]

Fuck everything that everyone else has said in this thread, except half elves suck.
1. Play what you want.
2. In my opinion High Elves are the number one ultimate best at paladin and cleric(excluding Dark Elves of course).
3. Dwarves are shit.
4. Humans are as boring as shit, thus making them equal to shit.
5. Half Elves are just the worst race that's not a shorty race, period.
6. Your only two real options are Erudite and High Elf, High Elves have better stats for Paladins than Erudites. As for the Erudite armor, I don't know.
7. Go with High Elf because I brought up seven points.

[Diggles]

high elves have horrible stam and str.
Erudite is for hipsters as seen in pic

Human is best.

[karsten]

Fuck everything that everyone else has said in this thread, except half elves suck.
1. Play what you want.
2. In my opinion High Elves are the number one ultimate best at paladin and cleric(excluding Dark Elves of course).
3. Dwarves are shit.
4. Humans are as boring as shit, thus making them equal to shit.
5. Half Elves are just the worst race that's not a shorty race, period.
6. Your only two real options are Erudite and High Elf, High Elves have better stats for Paladins than Erudites. As for the Erudite armor, I don't know.
7. Go with High Elf because I brought up seven points.

everything about this post is true

[Juugox2]

to bad halflings cant be pals yet lol

[karsten]

more like too good

[Heebee]

I didn't read any of this thread but make a high elf because they are the COOLEST

way cooler than heebee for example

Bzzzzzt WRONG!

[Goraxx]

Paladins play which race they wanna.

[nilbog]

Heebee fix your visor!

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32380

http://i50.tinypic.com/23lzb6t.jpg

[Heebee]

Heebee fix your visor!

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32380


Ohhhh cheers Nilbog :)

[Softcore PK]

I love this thread! And many of you are wrong. Half elves are by far one of the sexiest races for plate classes, particularly bards..

[Diggles]

half elves should only have bards as an option they're third/fourth best for everything else

[Mardur]

How to determine what race to create for up-and-coming min/maxers:

http://wiki.project1999.org/images/Paladin-stats.png

First determine what stats are the most important to you and weigh them appropriately. For simplicity's sake I'll use the follow:
STA 2x
WIS 1.5x
STR 1.0x
AGI/DEX 0.5x
INT/CHA: 0.0x

Dwarf: 502
Erudite: 422
Half Elf: 415
High Elf: 432.5
Human: 467.5

As you can see, Dwarves have a large stat advantage, and Half Elves are the worst race for stats.

Now let's consider some other things. Resists are very important on PVP servers. Given the arbitrary point system I've created, I'll give a 5 point bonus for extra MR and 2.5 for other resists. Dwarves receive +5 SV Poison and +5 SV Magic. Erudites start with +5 SV Magic and -5 SV Disease. I'll also give a bonus 15 points for infravision. This now brings us to:

Dwarf: 554.5
Erudite: 434.5
Half Elf: 430
High Elf: 447.5
Human: 467.5

I normally also alter these based on how easy starting each character is. There's nothing redeeming about Felwithe/Gfay. Erudites start near a great area (Qeynos), but they're bound in the worst newbie zone in the game (Toxxulia) and if you die, it's a long boat ride back to Qeynos from Erudin. This is even more troubling on a pvp server. Dwarves, Humans, and Half Elves have great starting areas as long as you start the Human/Half Elf in Qeynos.

Butcherblock is one of my favorite starting zones. Not only are you very close to OOT/Freeport, the newbie area is full of humanoids and skeletons to score some cloth and rusty weapons. Quests are great. Paladins generally have better options than Butcherblock Hammer, but it's a decent weapon if you want to spend the time running to Qeynos and back. Bloodforge Armor, especially the amazing Helm is definitely something you'll want to do as any Dwarf clr/war/pal. Beno quest could net you leather, ringmail, or blackened iron armor, or even a dwarven ringmail tunic if you're lucky. There are a couple quests that are simple as killing rats and decaying skeletons that will fill you up on patchwork armor fast. Crushbone and Unrest are right next door.

Qeynos is my favorite area to start in EverQuest. Great city / newbie area lay out. Qeynos Hills and the Catacombs are my 2 favorite newbie areas. Catacombs have +5 hp rings, +5 hp earrings, +3 int earrings, netted armor, etc. Qeynos Hills have diseased wolfs and the diseased grizzly (about 2 plat each from quest turn ins). Also tons of gnolls for rusty weapons, bags, armor, and fangs which turn in for decent exp and money (if you do it in Halas). Nearby you have wisp island and WK bandits for even more cash. Players that start in Qeynos have less money troubles than anyone else.

So personally, this is how my race break down turns out for Paladins. Yes, this is completely arbitrary but it's also pretty accurate. You may disagree a bit with my point values, but I tried to keep things simple and I also know more about EQ than you.

Dwarf: 23.88%
Human: 20.20%
High Elf: 18.93%
Half Elf: 18.61%
Erudite: 18.38%

(to get easy-to-read percentage based scores, add up all race values, divide by 100, and then divide each race's score by that number)

Mathematically we come to the same conclusion that I would have just said already:

Dwarf is clearly the superior Paladin. If you don't want to go Dwarf for some reason, go Human. High Elf, Half Elf, and Erudite are about equally as bad.

[Tappin]

How to determine what race to create for up-and-coming min/maxers:

http://wiki.project1999.org/images/Paladin-stats.png

First determine what stats are the most important to you and weigh them appropriately. For simplicity's sake I'll use the follow:
STA 2x
WIS 1.5x
STR 1.0x
AGI/DEX 0.5x
INT/CHA: 0.0x

Dwarf: 502
Erudite: 422
Half Elf: 415
High Elf: 432.5
Human: 467.5

As you can see, Dwarves have a large stat advantage, and Half Elves are the worst race for stats.

Now let's consider some other things. Resists are very important on PVP servers. Given the arbitrary point system I've created, I'll give a 5 point bonus for extra MR and 2.5 for other resists. Dwarves receive +5 SV Poison and +5 SV Magic. Erudites start with +5 SV Magic and -5 SV Disease. I'll also give a bonus 15 points for infravision. This now brings us to:

Dwarf: 554.5
Erudite: 434.5
Half Elf: 430
High Elf: 447.5
Human: 467.5

I normally also alter these based on how easy starting each character is. There's nothing redeeming about Felwithe/Gfay. Erudites start near a great area (Qeynos), but they're bound in the worst newbie zone in the game (Toxxulia) and if you die, it's a long boat ride back to Qeynos from Erudin. This is even more troubling on a pvp server. Dwarves, Humans, and Half Elves have great starting areas as long as you start the Human/Half Elf in Qeynos.

Butcherblock is one of my favorite starting zones. Not only are you very close to OOT/Freeport, the newbie area is full of humanoids and skeletons to score some cloth and rusty weapons. Quests are great. Paladins generally have better options than Butcherblock Hammer, but it's a decent weapon if you want to spend the time running to Qeynos and back. Bloodforge Armor, especially the amazing Helm is definitely something you'll want to do as any Dwarf clr/war/pal. Beno quest could net you leather, ringmail, or blackened iron armor, or even a dwarven ringmail tunic if you're lucky. There are a couple quests that are simple as killing rats and decaying skeletons that will fill you up on patchwork armor fast. Crushbone and Unrest are right next door.

Qeynos is my favorite area to start in EverQuest. Great city / newbie area lay out. Qeynos Hills and the Catacombs are my 2 favorite newbie areas. Catacombs have +5 hp rings, +5 hp earrings, +3 int earrings, netted armor, etc. Qeynos Hills have diseased wolfs and the diseased grizzly (about 2 plat each from quest turn ins). Also tons of gnolls for rusty weapons, bags, armor, and fangs which turn in for decent exp and money (if you do it in Halas). Nearby you have wisp island and WK bandits for even more cash. Players that start in Qeynos have less money troubles than anyone else.

So personally, this is how my race break down turns out for Paladins. Yes, this is completely arbitrary but it's also pretty accurate. You may disagree a bit with my point values, but I tried to keep things simple and I also know more about EQ than you.

Dwarf: 23.88%
Human: 20.20%
High Elf: 18.93%
Half Elf: 18.61%
Erudite: 18.38%

(to get easy-to-read percentage based scores, add up all race values, divide by 100, and then divide each race's score by that number)

Mathematically we come to the same conclusion that I would have just said already:

Dwarf is clearly the superior Paladin. If you don't want to go Dwarf for some reason, go Human. High Elf, Half Elf, and Erudite are about equally as bad.

Do this for every class :DDDDDDDD

[Mardur]

half elves should only have bards as an option they're third/fourth best for everything else

Half Elf is only a good bard choice because a) bards depend less on stats than any other class in the game and b) they have the worst race selection of any class in the game (along with ranger). Even so, it's best to go Human for the extra stamina. Half Elf is the worst race in the game.

[Softcore PK]

Lol, very good Mardur. Fortunately, I am not a min/maxer. And I will never ever play as a dwarf, and would only consider human for the monk class :P

A+ for effort!

[Mardur]

Then your only options are High Elf, Half Elf, and Erudite. They're all equally the worst race choice. Pick whatever one looks the best to you. What's the point of this thread?

[nilbog]

Then your only options are High Elf, Half Elf, and Erudite. They're all equally the worst race choice. Pick whatever one looks the best to you. What's the point of this thread?

high elf - nature's defender(if tunare), ability to wear small and medium armor
half elf - possibility of qeynos shield, (infravision if vision mattered), nature's defender(if tunare)
erudite - shield of the stalwart seas

I played a half elf, but dwarves are better for stats.

[purest]

erudite paladin - pretend you're the paladin from diablo 2

[Vondra]

Is it a female? If so then high elf for the ponytail

[Kika Maslyaka]

Lol, very good Mardur. Fortunately, I am not a min/maxer. And I will never ever play as a dwarf, and would only consider human for the monk class :P

A+ for effort!

a different kind of paladin perhaps? :D

http://www.blogcdn.com/wow.joystiq.com/media/2006/08/be_paladin.jpg

http://s3.amazonaws.com/inspiresynergy-duncan/pictures/49775/3_large.jpg

/hides

[Kevlar]

Wow would be cool if it didn't look like a flintstones cartoon.

[Kika Maslyaka]

i would say some models look more realistic than others. Their world graphic is pretty good, and their attention to details in gear is amazing...
Of course casual game-play could use some improvement :D

[Tappin]

Of course casual game-play could use some improvement :D

Are you trolling? :|

[Diggles]

i find the attention to detail funny, the most loved armor sets are the ones from 2004, whereas their actual gear that they worked on in 2011 is the most hated

[Kika Maslyaka]

i find the attention to detail funny, the most loved armor sets are the ones from 2004, whereas their actual gear that they worked on in 2011 is the most hated

agree. I think its tier 2 and 3 sets that I was most impressed by, past that, they started to look out of place. Plus, Blizz has unhealthy obsession with shoulders and spikes :D

[Kevlar]

agree. I think its tier 2 and 3 sets that I was most impressed by, past that, they started to look out of place. Plus, Blizz has unhealthy obsession with shoulders and spikes :D

That is just because they ripped off Warhammer and WH40k for all their "ideas".

[Kika Maslyaka]

That is just because they ripped off Warhammer and WH40k for all their "ideas".

well Bliz was originally hired to make a WH game back in the 90s.
But they got into argument with the owners of the rights, and broke off.
The first WC games were were close WH rip-offs, but with WC-3 they went off in their own direction.

[Tappin]

Armor sets have gradually gotten worse, as everyone else has said. t13 is a complete joke for almost every class, except maybe priests. I guess that's fair though, since the gear just continues to get easier to obtain, it shouldn't look as great :)

[Softcore PK]

Ok, I have it down to either half elf or high elf, because erudite plate doesn't even look like plate. I'm really leaning toward high elf, but the plate look of legs and feet are making me hold back :s

The leg plate armor is like a long skirt with weird horizontal and vertical stripes, which I guess isn't so bad. But plate boots don't look like plate at all, they're like regular cloth shoes and then colored skin above them. What kind of knight doesn't wear plate boots?

On the other hand, I prefer the high elf for every other reason. Bigger mana pool, taller, better hairstyles..

[Shrubwise]

Quit being such a fucking sissy pants and pick starting stats you numb nut. Dwarf is imminent

[burkemi5]

dwarf roll FTW

[mostbitter]

i personally cant wait to blow up this guys paladin

[Snaggles]

Could never stand the high elf male glider wings and baseball cap. Helmless lady high elf tho....reeow :).

[Mardur]

erudite plate doesn't even look like plate.

Gonna PK you relentlessly for that.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Ok, I have it down to either half elf or high elf, because erudite plate doesn't even look like plate. I'm really leaning toward high elf, but the plate look of legs and feet are making me hold back :s

The leg plate armor is like a long skirt with weird horizontal and vertical stripes, which I guess isn't so bad. But plate boots don't look like plate at all, they're like regular cloth shoes and then colored skin above them. What kind of knight doesn't wear plate boots?

On the other hand, I prefer the high elf for every other reason. Bigger mana pool, taller, better hairstyles..

Play on server with Luclin graphics - get your High Elves fully uberly plated :p

[falkun]

Play on server with Luclin graphics - get your High Elves fully uberly plated :p

The male Luclin High Elves were one of the WORST models they revamped. You run around with a stuck shoved up your rear, they added that horrible feather crest to the good-looking roman Imperial Gallic helmet (or the snow tiger velious texture, also awesome), they went from swinging 2HS over the shoulder to chopping wood, 2HB/P no longer required 2-hands, plate made their torsos twice the size they should be, and they removed the chain skirts on plate legs. It was a horrible redesign and if I didn't need the Luclin models for the horse, I would have never enabled them.

I normally also alter these based on how easy starting each character is. There's nothing redeeming about Felwithe/Gfay ... Butcherblock is one of my favorite starting zones ... Crushbone and Unrest are right next door.

I will ignore the legitimacy of some of your other stat weighting like WIS being more important than STR, because as you say, "You may disagree a bit with my point values, but I tried to keep things simple." However, within the span of two paragraphs, you devalue a giant advantage for the GFay/Felwithe area while still attributing that advantage to the Dwarven starting area of Butcherblock. Crushbone is an amazing newbie "dungeon", allowing movement increasing spells, providing a decent ZEM, and teaching newbies how to pull, CC, and group. And then there is Unrest, a young paladin's dream, either solo or as part of a party. Both of these amazing dungeons are just as open to Paladins from Felwithe/Gfay as they are to Paladins from Butcherblock.

Finally, as Snaggles (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=426376&postcount=3) already mentioned, only Tunarian (read: HIE and HEF) Paladins can quest the awesome Nature's Defender (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=883), an item arguably better than the real pally epic.

Dwarf paladins are the min/maxers best bet for a paladin, but my paladin, like on Live, will have a chain skirt and wield some of the best (http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/1992/959783-epic_paladin_large.jpg) looking (http://216.237.114.98/Photos/Epics/DaggerladEpic.jpg) swords (http://common.allakhazam.com/images/5/1/5187864cd39cad29917dc85eae47b8e6.jpg) ever designed for a game.

[Xadion]

Best race for pally = halfling fo sho :-)

Edit: and we like luclin high elfs for the females, nothing more...

[Palemoon]

How is natures defender in anyway shape or form better then the epic?

And all luclin models are butt ugly

[Xadion]

Natures Defender is vastly easyer to obtain than the pally epic- well maybe not the actuall "epic" but the Soulfire and FA leading up to the Epic- Natures Defender can be done by a group of standard geared players- as the epic requires more...well..alot of luck in getting in on dragon kills- going to sky, etc etc etc

[falkun]

How is natures defender in anyway shape or form better then the epic?

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/equipment/graphics15/natures_defender.jpg
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/equipment/graphics14/Fiery_Defender.jpg

I could make a comparison chart, but basically the ND (compared to FD):

has more AC
has a similar DPS ratio
has a comparable proc and more DEX to proc it
cannot 2H-Bash
has less HPs
trades resists
and is much easier to obtain

[Snaggles]

How is natures defender in anyway shape or form better then the epic?

And all luclin models are butt ugly

It's not really. Just stupidly easy to do and if you MQ it then well...:D

It has a ton of AC and a nice proc, similar to the epic. You can't bash with it (points to the epic) but overall a very nice weapon. Looks are amazing too.

Edit: Just realized Falkun said what I did except way better. :)

[Softcore PK]

How is natures defender in anyway shape or form better then the epic?

And all luclin models are butt ugly

Natures Defender has a higher DMG, though not by much. And a worse DMG/DLY ratio than epic. 30 more ac! Though worse stats overall lol. And pretty sure you can't bash with this as you can with epic.

Yes, paladin epic is better than Natures Defender :P

But I think I'd use it over epic most of the time just for the lore behind it. There's something about tunare elf only items.. maybe it's my elf purist upbringing :)

[falkun]

Edit: Just realized Falkun said what I did except way better. :)

Don't feel bad. I ninja-edited in the "cannot 2H-Bash" after you reminded me.

[Kika Maslyaka]

The male Luclin High Elves were one of the WORST models they revamped. You run around with a stuck shoved up your rear, they added that horrible feather crest to the good-looking roman Imperial Gallic helmet (or the snow tiger velious texture, also awesome), they went from swinging 2HS over the shoulder to chopping wood, 2HB/P no longer required 2-hands, plate made their torsos twice the size they should be, and they removed the chain skirts on plate legs. It was a horrible redesign and if I didn't need the Luclin models for the horse, I would have never enabled them.


play females - they awesome :p

[Softcore PK]

Luclin models are terrible all around :P

[falkun]

play females - they awesome :p

That's because they kept the chain skirt, and they took the male velious cat helmet and applied it as the plate helmet for females. Anything cool that could be saved from the classic models was given to the females, while the male models got the shaft (literally, watch them run).

I already had a good deal of time invested in my paladin to reroll him by the time I had to enable the Luclin model so I could use his horse. Thankfully, this server will not have horses, so I will not need to enable the Luclin models.

[beentheredonethat]

luclin models are disabled anyway.

[falkun]

luclin models are disabled anyway on the Project1999 server.


How much the second half of your fact matters is for you to decide.

[purest]

is much easier to obtain

the only thing you listed that is correct

The reason ND is unbalanced is not because it is such a great weapon, but because it's a lot easier to obtain compared to the amount of work you need to get a FD.

FD is a lot better.. Better damage, better stats, bash enabled, better proc, better resists.

[Softcore PK]

the only thing you listed that is correct

The reason ND is unbalanced is not because it is such a great weapon, but because it's a lot easier to obtain compared to the amount of work you need to get a FD.

FD is a lot better.. Better damage, better stats, bash enabled, better proc, better resists.

How can you call yourself Purist if you're a dwarf and in Grindcore? That's like serious blasphemy :P

[falkun]

Better Damage: a wash; FD ratio: 1.14, ND ratio: 1.21.

Better Stats: FD has more HPs and STR, ND has more AC and +DEX

Bash Enabled: Single. Biggest. Advantage. No arguments here.

Better Proc: a wash; FD proc: 155DD/1.5s stun (L55 max)/-100MR check; ND proc: 150DD/1.0s stun (L55 max)/-100MR check

Better resists: FD is better, but the resists contained on the ND are still better than good.

[purest]

Better Damage: a wash; FD ratio: 1.14, ND ratio: 1.21.

Better Stats: FD has more HPs and STR, ND has more AC and +DEX

Bash Enabled: Single. Biggest. Advantage. No arguments here.

Better Proc: a wash; FD proc: 155DD/1.5s stun (L55 max)/-100MR check; ND proc: 150DD/1.0s stun (L55 max)/-100MR check

Better resists: FD is better, but the resists contained on the ND are still better than good.

Yeah, it's basically a virtual tie. I mean, damage-wise, stats and resists I'd give the edge slightly to FD, not significantly better though for sure.. And while the armor class on ND gives it a huge favor over FD, the bash enabled on FD gives it a huge favor over ND in turn. What tips the balance now in favor of ND is risk vs reward to obtain it, in which case ND wins by all accounts.

Fiery Defender:
Two books off of Nagafen and Vox
Kill a lvl 46 Lich
Soulfire
Ghoulbane
A trip to fourth island of sky.
Kill a lvl 56 dark elf in Neriak Forest
Kill a 53+ mob in Hate.
A raid of the Hole to kill a 53+ mob.
Other various quest components that can be picked up easily.

Nature Defender:
Kill a 53+ mob in Hate
Kill a lvl 50 mob in WL
Kill a lvl 55 mob in WL
Kill a lvl 60 mob in WL

[Snaggles]

Neither are going to pose much "high-end" use. I mean, amazing weapons don't get me wrong but they are pride pieces. Anything from Ntov or even the stuff people give to twinks from Dain and Yeli (Crasilith and Frostreaver) are better for dmg.

Still, having an epic of sorts is great. The ND is far more attainable. I had Inny's curse with my SK and my wife's pally had the ND on her 55 pally. The difference is her sword took a MQ'ed skull and about 20 mins.

[Kassel]

I say high elf because when I want to get serious I turn my ball cap around