Classic pet exp

[raptorak]

Forgive my ignorance, but what does this change entail?

[Tux]

I believe it means you now have to out damage your pet to not lose half the experience.

Probably doesn't hurt magicians or necros too much, but will really suck for enchanters who cannot really do significant damage themselves.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=960

[raptorak]

yep! enchanter here :P what if i kill my pet just before mob dies?

[raptorak]

...and they laughed at me for speccing evocation :P

[disco]

so now we have to out damage our pet instead of doing only 1 damage to get full exp?

[pickled_heretic]

...and they laughed at me for speccing evocation :P

are you fucking serious?

[Threepoint]

dude thinks hes a genius

[Threepoint]

they laughed at him for maxxing wisdom

now whos laughing bitch. oh still you

[raptorak]

Lol ever stop to think that it is very easy to accidentally spec the wrong tree, especially to a newbie caster like myself, not to mention I might be being sarcastic? ;)

[MrSparkle001]

I believe it means you now have to out damage your pet to not lose half the experience.

Probably doesn't hurt magicians or necros too much, but will really suck for enchanters who cannot really do significant damage themselves.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=960

Don't you have it backwards? That link is saying that's the old way. Did this patch introduce the old way or something? I thought we had the old scheme, and that we had to outdamage our pets in order to get full XP.

Pets and Experience � As there's still some confusion about how experience works with the new pet enhancements, I'd like to talk about it a bit more so that everyone understands. Here are the basic rules, along with some examples - Situation 1 - You are soloing and you have a summoned pet or a charmed pet (not including Dire Charm)- * If you do any damage to the monster at all, you get all of the experience. * If you don't do any damage to the monster, the pet gets 75% of the experience

How is this different than the old way for non-Dire Charmed pets? In the old scheme, if a pet did more than half of the damage to a monster, it took half the experience reward. In the new scheme, pets take zero experience unless no player does damage. If no player does any damage, then the pet takes 75% of the experience reward This means that it's much easier to make sure a pet doesn't take any experience from you or your group. In most situations where a pet would have taken half the experience before, it now takes no experience at all.

What's the bottom line? With the new rules, players get more experience than they used to with a pet in almost every situation. The only way you can get less than before is if you or your group don't damage a monster. As long as you do any damage at all, your pet will never take the 75% experience share. Make sure you do a bit of damage, and your summoned or regular charmed pets won't take a single point of experience.

[pickled_heretic]

Don't you have it backwards? That link is saying that's the old way. Did this patch introduce the old way or something? I thought we had the old scheme, and that we had to outdamage our pets in order to get full XP.

i think the way it was on this server before live was the new scheme, where pet would take 75% unless you did 1 point of damage, in which case it took 0%.

i'm assuming that this is going to change to the 50% damage = 50% exp taken scheme, which is going to suck balls for my enchanter since i can't do any damage without a pet. D:

[Nihilist_santa]

Pssst.........you have memory blur........just saying.

[Tux]

Pssst.........you have memory blur........just saying.

You have to cast mem blur 4-6 times to get it to stick, and it has a recast time. I know EQ is all about mindless repetition but you have to draw the line somewhere.

I think more likely druids will go back to kiting and enchanters will go back to looking for groups that don't have rangers.

[pickled_heretic]

Pssst.........you have memory blur........just saying.

enchanters already have to do a bunch of retarded shit to be able to solo effectively, adding a spell with less than 30% success rate and no feedback of success would be ridiculous.

[MrSparkle001]

i think the way it was on this server before live was the new scheme, where pet would take 75% unless you did 1 point of damage, in which case it took 0%.

i'm assuming that this is going to change to the 50% damage = 50% exp taken scheme, which is going to suck balls for my enchanter since i can't do any damage without a pet. D:

Why would they go backwards like that? The new scheme is so much better.

Saying "well, new scheme isn't as classic" doesn't work, because someone made the decision to forget about classic and change the boat routes in OOT. New scheme is better in every way. Moving to the old scheme is regressive.

I have an enchanter too, and a necro. My necro will probably be OK, but not my enchanter. I'm not happy with this. What's the point in it?

(my enchanter is too low for me to worry about him doing more than 50% damage, because he does that without even trying at his low level)

[pickled_heretic]

Why would they go backwards like that? The new scheme is so much better.

Saying "well, new scheme isn't as classic" doesn't work, because someone made the decision to forget about classic and change the boat routes in OOT. New scheme is better in every way. Moving to the old scheme is regressive.

I have an enchanter too, and a necro. My necro will probably be OK, but not my enchanter. I'm not happy with this. What's the point in it?

because the devs want the only effective solo class to be necro and druid, anything else is Not Classic (tm)

[raptorak]

How does this affect charm soloing? Charm solo is already risky and I run around with 50 does of SoW and levitate on at all times, now I'm gonna have to break charm on my pet before I kill off my target? No more spectres for me hehe ;)

I heard of reverse-charm solo tactic, where I root, charm, haste a mob, then break charm, re-root, find a new pet, attack uber mob till low hp then break charm again so looks like this will be the way to go. Hide is too unreliable for this it seems, any cheap items that give invis?

To be honest I can outnuke my animation pet but it isn't very mana effecient, glad I'm 41 already as this *nerf* would have sucked in mistmoore!

Thanks for the memory blur recommendation, I'm sure it will come in useful at somepoint, but already a bit strained for spell slots so will have to test out these tactics a bit more.

[pickled_heretic]

How does this affect charm soloing? Charm solo is already risky and I run around with 50 does of SoW and levitate on at all times, now I'm gonna have to break charm on my pet before I kill off my target? No more spectres for me hehe ;)

I heard of reverse-charm solo tactic, where I root, charm, haste a mob, then break charm, re-root, find a new pet, attack uber mob till low hp then break charm again so looks like this will be the way to go. Hide is too unreliable for this it seems, any cheap items that give invis?

To be honest I can outnuke my animation pet but it isn't very mana effecient, glad I'm 41 already as this *nerf* would have sucked in mistmoore!

Thanks for the memory blur recommendation, I'm sure it will come in useful at somepoint, but already a bit strained for spell slots so will have to test out these tactics a bit more.

anyone who recommends memory blur as a tool to regularly wipe hate lists for soloing has obviously never used the spell before. you'd spend a third of your mana on every mob just trying to get memory blur to stick.

the truth is, this is going to make charming for experience way harder for enchanters, if not impossible. hell, it's going to make charming in most groups impossible as well. in a group with enchanter/cleric/warrior my charmed pet will outdamage the warrior every time, and might even outdamage 1 or 2 more dps added to the group.

[MrSparkle001]

because the devs want the only effective solo class to be necro and druid, anything else is Not Classic (tm)

Boat routes aren't classic either. Kodiaks walking the south desert wall in West Commons isn't classic. Bixies all over Nektulos isn't classic (I don't think? I don't remember seeing them there). There's a few things that aren't classic, so why make pet exp classic all of a sudden?

Like I said, it probably won't affect me because I've been playing under the assumption that it was already like this, which may make you wonder why I don't like this change. I'm of the opinion that not everything about classic has to be emulated, when improvements were made later. There were a few changes post-classic that were really good, like the pet exp change. Another example is the nerf to DOT damage on moving mobs in classic that was repealed in Velious. There's no need to patch that DOT damage nerf in if it was later repealed. It's regressive. Yeah, you can say "well that was classic" but then I can say "well why did you choose to alter boat routes? That's not classic".

Oh well. My necro will be fine, and my enchanter will have the same trouble I expected he would have anyway. It's just odd decision making, picking and choosing what parts of classic to add and what parts to alter.

[Tah]

And I was all stoked to start charm soloing on my Enchanter. Bleh. :|

[JayDee]

why would you fucking nerf charm soloing exp of all things. Nerf PBAOE and bard swarm kiting exp

[disco]

sucks for chanters... also sucks for necros

[raptorak]

Not that pleased with the changes myself, but I guess it means it takes even more skill (read: hassle) to charm solo from now on! :P

Worried about the nerf to group exp too.

[MrSparkle001]

sucks for chanters... also sucks for necros

Well if tomorrow I see my XP has dropped dramatically, I'll know I'm not doing over 50% of the damage like I thought I've been doing, and will need to burn even more mana every kill, slowing my overall progress. That's if my XP drops dramatically. I don't plan on changing how I kite and kill, yet.

Again, what's the point of this change? Is anybody actually going to like it? Is anybody going to say "It's about time, I've been waiting for this change"? It's one of those parts of classic that would have been best if left out. I doubt it was missed by those who knew the server was using the newer scheme.

[raptorak]

Even having to do 1 damage was a hassle that enchanters had to pay for thanks to mages having such powerful pets, so I feel this change is unjustified unless the devs felt that encs were levelling too fast using charm?

[raptorak]

At least this will stop all those necros using those summoned swords mage which proc even though they shouldn't - shame said necros are already 50+.

Also, white dragon tooth just went down in price dramatically :P

Basically this change only really hurts players new to the server or casuals who aren't yet in the high 50s... just like removing maps.

[DoucLangur]

[..] enchanters will go back to looking for groups that don't have rangers.

<3 that remark :D

[Palemoon]

Good move, will encourage more grouping.

[Dazen]

Yeah it went on for how long? It's a little late in the game to make that change IMO.

[Palemoon]

Yeah it went on for how long? It's a little late in the game to make that change IMO.

Dont think so, fresh p99 red is not even launched yet.

[Radiskull]

So, the new system is that the caster needs to do 50% or more experience to get full expiernce. If the caster does less then 50%, the caster still gets 50% experience, whether the caster does 0% or 49%?

Wouldn't this encourage AFK killing again? Or am I misunderstanding how this works? Couldn't a level 44 mage stick his pet on a spectre in Oasis for the night, getting 50% experience pn every kill while he sleeps, until a GM bounces him to log in? I hadn't seen AFK camping in well over a year... but doesn't this kind of make it relevant again?

[Palemoon]

=Wouldn't this encourage AFK killing again? Or am I misunderstanding how this works? Couldn't a level 44 mage stick his pet on a spectre in Oasis for the night=?


ummm I would think this would lead to the permanent deletion of that mages account. Is that the case when someone AFK xps?

[stormlord]

I'm not a chanter or a low dps pet toon, but I don't really understand why pets should even take any experience at all. Didn't take all of this into account when they balanced classes? My guess is that they cut experience because they were afraid of exploits or bugs. In a similar way, developers will often cap stats and skills just in case a hacker figures out how to boost them to extremes.

(keep in mind that pets AUTO-defend - this makes developers anxious)

I don't think this would ever be a part of a single player game because in that kind of game hacking only influences YOU, not others. In MMOs, hacking (exploiting oversights or bugs) influences everyone.

For example, in single player games you can turn on cheats. In MMOs, you can't (GMs can).

[inyane]

this change wouldn't be so bad if pet taunt/agro actually worked.

i want to see a mage do over 50% nuke damage on a mob and not have that mob beating their ass into the ground

[Marmo]

this change wouldn't be so bad if pet taunt/agro actually worked.

i want to see a mage do over 50% nuke damage on a mob and not have that mob beating their ass into the ground

2 blues left in 59... dammit I shoulda taken care of this earlier. Ohai earth pet...

[inyane]

yeah, that earth pet root is so reliable...

my mage is only 54 though. perhaps the next pet is better. haha

[stormlord]

One more thing...

Even in the new system the pet takes 75% of the experience if you don't do any damage. What this shows is that even the new system is paranoid. Just not as much as the old one.

My guess is the new system fixed some exploits and the developers were confident.

[Dazen]

this change wouldn't be so bad if pet taunt/agro actually worked.

i want to see a mage do over 50% nuke damage on a mob and not have that mob beating their ass into the ground

Thats a good point there

[stormlord]

In a way, this is the same kind of thing that happened to hybrids. They gave them an experience penalty because they thought their soloing capabilities were too powerful. In a similar way, they thought that AUTO-defend pets are too powerful. Maybe not so much in terms of their stats, but in the many potential circumstances that one can 'dream' up. If you're paranoid, like a developer, you dream...

In both cases, there's a subjective feeling of dread. It's not concrete fact. This makes it shaky ground.

Same thing happens in real world matters. When concrete facts aren't available, we tend to invent goblins and ghosts and little hitlers. In the absence of true knowledge, our innermost fears come out.

[Daldaen]

This shouldn't affect charm exp I don't believe.

[Humerox]

this change wouldn't be so bad if pet taunt/agro actually worked.

i want to see a mage do over 50% nuke damage on a mob and not have that mob beating their ass into the ground

that should have been fixed first, lol

good job though devs.

[Barn]

Can't wait for the EC stock market to open. I'm putting everything in malachite futures.
BUY BUY!

[scourge42]

So how does a necro solo now? fear kiting is out of the question. I would be better fighting without a pet now because it does 70-80% of the damage and i still use most of my mana dotting slowing and fearing.

[Runeblade]

Tired of random nerfs to "classic" when so much isn't classic

[Chokan]

Mage cannot do over 50% and not get agro, i'm sorry. We can't do 30% and not get agro over pets...

[Brinkman]

If red99 didnt exist this fix to classic would never be going in IMHO.

They dont want pet classes lvling to 50 in a week.

Necros are going to be the only ones able to still do this but 1-30 will be a major pain as our dps from dots dont start passing our pet dps until then.

Its especially hard at lower lvls.

But its classic, so im not going to complain.

I honestly didnt realize this pet change happened so late, I thought the change was made in classic to 1 point of damage.

[Haul]

this change wouldn't be so bad if pet taunt/agro actually worked.

i want to see a mage do over 50% nuke damage on a mob and not have that mob beating their ass into the ground

This. Cmon devs you guys obviously didn't think this nerf over well.

[Haul]

This shit better not be active on red99 I swear to god.

[burkemi5]

Wow, this nerf really sucks a lot. I agree with a lot of the posts on here, mainly the fact that pet aggro needs to be fixed as well. I guess I'll just level 50% slower now.

[Lazortag]

The solution isn't to do more than 50% damage. The solution is to solo as you normally would even if that means you'll be going half as fast, because you'll still have more solo ability than any other non-Bard class. This nerf is pretty much necessary and should have been in from the beginning.

Also, you could always just group - then your group mates will surely do more than 50% damage.

Anyways, not sure what the complaining is about, this is classic.

[pickled_heretic]

Also, you could always just group - then your group mates will surely do more than 50% damage.


absolutely not. charmed, hasted, dual wielding pets will outdamage 1, 2, possibly even 3 mdps in a group. seems overpowered to you? maybe, but keep in mind that charm will break 100% given enough time and that retarded dps will go straight to the enchanter or druid.

however, this nerf makes it questionable whether to use pets at all in groups if there is even a doubt that the pet will take exp.

[pickled_heretic]

logged onto my enchanter, put on lfg. let's see how long i have to wait to find a group today, maybe 2-3 hours if i'm lucky.

[Brinkman]

This. Cmon devs you guys obviously didn't think this nerf over well.

Oh they did, trust me.

Actually If any of you knew this history of this server, When p99 first went live the 1 point of damage requirement for pet classes was live, then in the Febuary 18 2010 patch they changed it to the 50% damage requirement, which caused quite an uproar including Guineapig our super-mod =) The very next patch Rogean changed it back to the 1 point of damage requirement. Now they are changing it back again.

Its for Red99 folks, And *hopefully* after that server has been up for a while they will revert it again. It truely is a retarded rule IMHO.

[jarshale]

/sigh

I guess it's time to roll a druid or something as my necro is now pointless. There's no way in hell I'll be able to out dps my pet without pulling aggro constantly.

[MrSparkle001]

Anyways, not sure what the complaining is about, this is classic.

Because not everything is classic, sometimes on purpose, so when something is nerfed in the name of "classic" it's bothersome.

I have a feeling when I log on and start kiting I'm gonna take a massive XP hit, because my pet normally does a lot more than 50% of the damage because of the DOT reduction on moving targets. I used to think I was doing more than 50% because I got decent XP, but now I know that that's not the case at all.

Revert this change :)

[Palemoon]

Simple solution to you and others wanting to make sure you do more then 50 percent of the damage to mobs: Group

[Lazortag]

You guys need to stop whining, seriously. This still leaves pet classes as much faster soloers than every other class (except Bards). It was like this in classic and didn't cause a huge shitstorm then, so why would it be a problem now? If anything this is a good thing, it means you're more likely to get other classically inaccurate things fixed (like pet weapon delay, sword of runes, and so on). You came here to play classic, don't complain when they make things classic.

[inyane]

the problem isn't whether or not this is classic.

the problem is that other mechanics that worked on live don't work here.

ie pet agro/taunt

if a pet could actually hold any sort of agro, i doubt people would be bitching.

its not that you expect me to do 51% of the damage to get the exp. it is that I can NOT do 51% of the damage without getting my ass kicked.

[jarshale]

the problem isn't whether or not this is classic.

the problem is that other mechanics that worked on live don't work here.

ie pet agro/taunt

if a pet could actually hold any sort of agro, i doubt people would be bitching.

its not that you expect me to do 51% of the damage to get the exp. it is that I can NOT do 51% of the damage without getting my ass kicked.

This.

[Lazortag]

the problem isn't whether or not this is classic.

the problem is that other mechanics that worked on live don't work here.

ie pet agro/taunt

if a pet could actually hold any sort of agro, i doubt people would be bitching.

its not that you expect me to do 51% of the damage to get the exp. it is that I can NOT do 51% of the damage without getting my ass kicked.

This is a reason to fix those things to be classic; this is not a reason to make the server even less classic than it already is.

[Brinkman]

You guys need to stop whining, seriously. This still leaves pet classes as much faster soloers than every other class (except Bards). It was like this in classic and didn't cause a huge shitstorm then, so why would it be a problem now? If anything this is a good thing, it means you're more likely to get other classically inaccurate things fixed (like pet weapon delay, sword of runes, and so on). You came here to play classic, don't complain when they make things classic.

I dont know.... There seemed to be enough of a shitstorm back then, for the devs to change it to 1 point of damage... amiright?

You are right, nobody should whine about things being changed to classic. Im not. What I whine about is how they chage things back to classic that make us "too powerful" Because it was added in after velious and needs to be removed ( NOTHING wrong with that ).. Yet they take their sweet arse time fix things back to classic, that were classic that made us powerful. ( enter me whineing)

[Lazortag]

I dont know.... There seemed to be enough of a shitstorm back then, for the devs to change it to 1 point of damage... amiright?

You are right, nobody should whine about things being changed to classic. Im not. What I whine about is how they chage things back to classic that make us "too powerful" Because it was added in after velious and needs to be removed ( NOTHING wrong with that ).. Yet they take their sweet arse time fix things back to classic, that were classic that made us powerful. ( enter me whineing)

Like this?:

Kanras: Pet damage increases if high enough damage weapons are equipped.

[pickled_heretic]

Simple solution to you and others wanting to make sure you do more then 50 percent of the damage to mobs: Group

i've posted twice now, this doesn't help. if anything, it's going to introduce a pretty high chance of pets stealing exp from groups.

[Brinkman]

This is a reason to fix those things to be classic; this is not a reason to make the server even less classic than it already is.

And they should be fixed, yet they are reluctant to do so. Because it makes pet classes "too powerful".

But as soon as they find something that makes us too powerful that isnt classic = THEY ARE ALL OVER IT.

We have been complaing about pet taunt for months now, they are well aware of it, but wont change it.

We have been complaining about the retarded 10 yard distance to send pets after mobs problem ( should be the whole zone ), they are well aware of it, but wont change it.

I could go on, but I think you understand.

[MrSparkle001]

You guys need to stop whining, seriously. This still leaves pet classes as much faster soloers than every other class (except Bards). It was like this in classic and didn't cause a huge shitstorm then, so why would it be a problem now? If anything this is a good thing, it means you're more likely to get other classically inaccurate things fixed (like pet weapon delay, sword of runes, and so on). You came here to play classic, don't complain when they make things classic.

If we get pet weapon delay then all will be fine. As it stands, I read that pet weapon delay will not be fixed because "pets are way overpowered" (but if that's how it was in classic, how can it be called "overpowered"? This supposed to emulate classic right?)

That's what bothers me. It's selective picking and choosing of which classic features are added.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=30935&highlight=pets&page=2

I don't care how much anyone whines. Pet delays will not be lowered, if the weapon has a lower delay. But enough about that.

I'd love it if he went back on his word and fixed that, so much so that I wouldn't care about the XP nerf. That's how it was in classic. Pets did more damage overall which sped up your rate of XP, regardless of whether you did over 50% of the damage.

[pickled_heretic]

Like this?:

that change is nice and convenient because it only really affects people who are below lvl 15. so it's not going to be a meaningful change in the grand scheme of things. the devs could show their good faith by letting weapon delay affect pet delay, that would be a change that would affect higher level characters and have a more meaningful impact on the game.

and before you ask, yes, it was classic.

[Pescador]

On one hand, I agree that they need to fix pet aggro for this fix to be "classic," because in classic you could actually let your pet build up some aggro, do >50% dps, and not have the mob instantly attack you after the first nuke.

On the other hand, pet classes have had 2 years of the easiest leveling known to man... it's absolutely insane that an ungeared mage can solo up to level 20 in less than a day of playtime, using only /pet attack and the level 1 nuke.

If pet aggro were fixed, then pet classes could level 'classically', but this situation is still more fair than the way things were before, with uber pets doing 99% of the damage and the caster getting full exp.

[Ryndar]

My level 4 Necro's pet does more dps than my level 7 rogue does.

[Xadion]

what about lazy shamans, slow pet one nuke... Zzzzz... Boo

[Brinkman]

Like this?:

Yeah, weve been asking for that for what ... 2 years? I give a huge congratz to the devs who have realized they can introduce 1 pet fix for each pet nerf each patch, in so doing, they can defend themeselves by saying they are doing both. Fix Delay if you want to impress me. Fix taunt if you want to impress me.


And if you think kanras made it so a lvl 1 necro pet will hit for 90 with a weighted axe, your insane..... but its classic and it should. Im sure pets will do more dmg as stated, but not the way it was in classic.

GG

[Lazortag]

that change is nice and convenient because it only really affects people who are below lvl 15. so it's not going to be a meaningful change in the grand scheme of things. the devs could show their good faith by letting weapon delay affect pet delay, that would be a change that would affect higher level characters and have a more meaningful impact on the game.

So the solution would be to stop whining and politely write a bug report about how weapon delay affected pet delay in classic, and show that in line with other recent nerfs this would not be a problem for the server's integrity, and maybe you'll get what you want. But your attitude (as well as most of the other posters in this thread) is probably the least conducive to getting anything changed in your favor.

There's also a bug report about how pets didn't mitigate damage in classic (either attacks missed or hit for full). If that ends up being true (and I have no idea if it is), then you'll be even more likely to get pet delay fixed, as well as sword of runes proccing on non-summoned mobs probably.

edit:

Yeah, weve been asking for that for what ... 2 years? I give a huge congratz to the devs who have realized they can introduce 1 pet fix for each pet nerf each patch.


And if you think kanras made it so a lvl 1 necro pet will hit for 90 with a weighted axe, your insane..... but its classic and it should. Im sure pets will do more dmg as stated, but not the way it was in classic.

GG

Did you even check to see if this is functioning as you say, or are you just trying to be annoying?

[pickled_heretic]

So the solution would be to stop whining and politely write a bug report about how weapon delay affected pet delay in classic, and show that in line with other recent nerfs this would not be a problem for the server's integrity, and maybe you'll get what you want. But your attitude (as well as most of the other posters in this thread) is probably the least conducive to getting anything changed in your favor.

There's also a bug report about how pets didn't mitigate damage in classic (either attacks missed or hit for full). If that ends up being true (and I have no idea if it is), then you'll be even more likely to get pet delay fixed, as well as sword of runes proccing on non-summoned mobs probably.

it's already been reported. haynar had a nerdfit about it, telling us to (and i quote) "stop whining."

the devs don't give a fuck about classic, regardless of the impression that they leave. they want classic 2.0, with their own set of balance fixes. which is fine, they just need to call it what it is and stop hiding behind that lame old excuse of "it's classic."

[MrSparkle001]

If pet aggro were fixed, then pet classes could level 'classically', but this situation is still more fair than the way things were before, with uber pets doing 99% of the damage and the caster getting full exp.

Pet aggro and pet delay need to be fixed. Can't just fix one and not the other. Without a pet delay fix this is too much of a nerf, as pet delay allowed for faster killing, helping negate the XP nerf.

[Lazortag]

it's already been reported. haynar had a nerdfit about it, telling us to (and i quote) "stop whining."

the devs don't give a fuck about classic, regardless of the impression that they leave. they want classic 2.0, with their own set of balance fixes. which is fine, they just need to call it what it is and stop hiding behind that lame old excuse of "it's classic."

Yeah, with this attitude I can totally see you getting what you want in the near future. I thought mostly adults played on this server?

You know, I play a Bard and swarm/charm kiting still hasn't been fixed, yet you don't see me bitching every time something is nerfed. In fact I actively go out of my way to report bugs that benefit Bards (like the songs window, jonathan's inspiration being overpowered, pbae's not doing reduced damage if the mobs are moving, etc.) Would it be reasonable for me to say, "no, I'm not going to report any exploits that Bards can abuse because the devs owe it to me to fix swarm kiting"? Give me a break.

[Estu]

You came here to play classic, don't complain when they make things classic.

[MrSparkle001]

So the solution would be to stop whining and politely write a bug report about how weapon delay affected pet delay in classic, and show that in line with other recent nerfs this would not be a problem for the server's integrity, and maybe you'll get what you want. But your attitude (as well as most of the other posters in this thread) is probably the least conducive to getting anything changed in your favor.

As I posted last page:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=30935&highlight=pets&page=2

I don't care how much anyone whines. Pet delays will not be lowered, if the weapon has a lower delay. But enough about that.

There's always the chance that his stance changes now, but as it stands, there's no pet delay fix coming. Selective picking and choosing of classic features. Like I said, this XP change without a pet delay fix is a bigger nerf than it should be.

If his stance changes in the near future and this thread is still active I'll edit this to reflect that.

[pickled_heretic]

Yeah, with this attitude I can totally see you getting what you want in the near future. I thought mostly adults played on this server?

You know, I play a Bard and swarm/charm kiting still hasn't been fixed, yet you don't see me bitching every time something is nerfed. In fact I actively go out of my way to report bugs that benefit Bards (like the songs window, jonathan's inspiration, pbae's not doing reduced damage if the mobs are moving, etc.) Would it be reasonable for me to say, "no, I'm not going to report any exploits that Bards can abuse because the devs owe it to me to fix swarm kiting"? Give me a break.

i don't follow you. none of this information changes the fact that 1. weapon delay of pets has been already reported in the bug section and 2. the people who posted the bug were called whiners by one of the developers. who is being an adult? that's for the reader to decide.

[Lazortag]

As I posted last page:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=30935&highlight=pets&page=2



There's always the chance that his stance changes now, but as it stands, there's no pet delay fix coming. Selective picking and choosing of classic features. Like I said, this XP change without a pet delay fix is a bigger nerf than it should be.

If his stance changes in the near future and this thread is still active I'll edit this to reflect that.

Why don't you make a new thread, point out all of the things that have changed since his post was made, be clear and polite, say please, and hope for the best?

[Runeblade]

Oh they did, trust me.

Actually If any of you knew this history of this server, When p99 first went live the 1 point of damage requirement for pet classes was live, then in the Febuary 18 2010 patch they changed it to the 50% damage requirement, which caused quite an uproar including Guineapig our super-mod =) The very next patch Rogean changed it back to the 1 point of damage requirement. Now they are changing it back again.

Its for Red99 folks, And *hopefully* after that server has been up for a while they will revert it again. It truely is a retarded rule IMHO.

This sums up my feelings best i think, like if we're going for classic, then make a change and be done. But it feels like it's arbitrary what parts of classic we have and what parts we don't. When it gets switched back and forth and back again, it's not an effort to be classic, it's just an effort to nerf pet classes.

[Quizy]

Lazortag - the guy that just argues the counter point to the majority in every post..

You are a gluton for negativity arent you bro ? Lol.. i dont get it.

[MrSparkle001]

Why don't you make a new thread, point out all of the things that have changed since his post was made, be clear and polite, say please, and hope for the best?

A thread here, or a bug report? I don't know if a new bug report is warranted, and I'm not sure a new thread is necessary since this one is covering it nicely. Yeah people are upset here, but I don't blame them. It's a nerf without the corresponding bonuses that helped offset it in classic. I'm not too happy about that myself.

I'm wondering if instead it might be best to bump the old bug report with the new info? I don't know how this forum tolerates bumping; some discourage it, others encourage it rather than starting a new thread on the same subject.

When it gets switched back and forth and back again, it's not an effort to be classic, it's just an effort to nerf pet classes.

There shouldn't be an effort to nerf pet classes if this is supposed to emulate classic.

And it's sad if they're screwing over blue players because of the new red server. Bad enough the population is gonna be split.

[Lazortag]

Lazortag - the guy that just argues the counter point to the majority in every post..

You are a gluton for negativity arent you bro ? Lol.. i dont get it.

I'm not sure how I'm the one being negative:


the devs don't give a fuck about classic, regardless of the impression that they leave. they want classic 2.0, with their own set of balance fixes. which is fine, they just need to call it what it is and stop hiding behind that lame old excuse of "it's classic."

And they should be fixed, yet they are reluctant to do so. Because it makes pet classes "too powerful".

But as soon as they find something that makes us too powerful that isnt classic = THEY ARE ALL OVER IT.

We have been complaing about pet taunt for months now, they are well aware of it, but wont change it.

We have been complaining about the retarded 10 yard distance to send pets after mobs problem ( should be the whole zone ), they are well aware of it, but wont change it.

I could go on, but I think you understand.

logged onto my enchanter, put on lfg. let's see how long i have to wait to find a group today, maybe 2-3 hours if i'm lucky.

/sigh

I guess it's time to roll a druid or something as my necro is now pointless. There's no way in hell I'll be able to out dps my pet without pulling aggro constantly.

Tired of random nerfs to "classic" when so much isn't classic



I'm telling you to just be polite and use proper channels to address what you think is an inconsistency; everyone else is whining, saying they'll never play their character again, and acting like the devs owe them something.

[Brinkman]

So the solution would be to stop whining and politely write a bug report about how weapon delay affected pet delay in classic, and show that in line with other recent nerfs this would not be a problem for the server's integrity, and maybe you'll get what you want. But your attitude (as well as most of the other posters in this thread) is probably the least conducive to getting anything changed in your favor.

There's also a bug report about how pets didn't mitigate damage in classic (either attacks missed or hit for full). If that ends up being true (and I have no idea if it is), then you'll be even more likely to get pet delay fixed, as well as sword of runes proccing on non-summoned mobs probably.

edit:


Did you even check to see if this is functioning as you say, or are you just trying to be annoying?



As others have said, almost every single pet problem has been posted. They give us the cold shoulder normally, and when they dont do that, they tell us things like" not gonna happen" Pet classes are fine the way they are"

You are mistaking my ( and others ) attidues now, which became this way from how we were treated, from when we poted bug reports that were clear, consise and to the point filled with facts.

The pet mitigation thing was limited to PC's attacking pets in PVP. That post was made in the blue bug forum cause half the red retards cant post in their own damn PVP bug forum, which is why you are confused.

And im logging in now to verify pet damage with a wieghted axe, if I can find one in OT, hope they didnt reset merchants..

[Brinkman]

I'm not sure how I'm the one being negative:













I'm telling you to just be polite and use proper channels to address what you think is an inconsistency; everyone else is whining, saying they'll never play their character again, and acting like the devs owe them something.


And im telling you that most of us have tried that, over and over and over. At some point, you gotta decide that instead of being the living definition of insanity, to try something different. Im being coarse now because polite did not work.

[Lazortag]

You guys never tried bug reporting it after the recent nerfs were made. How hard is this to understand? When Song of Twilight was nerfed I was able to get the mez cap raised on Crission's Pixie Strike, but I couldn't get it raised before. What's the harm in trying? And even if you can't get it changed, it's silly to complain about it. It's not like Bards complain about every nerf because swarm kiting still hasn't been fixed.

[pickled_heretic]

I'm not sure how I'm the one being negative:

I'm telling you to just be polite and use proper channels to address what you think is an inconsistency; everyone else is whining, saying they'll never play their character again, and acting like the devs owe them something.

forming consensus is a large part of getting things changed, in real life and here. being able to essentially demolish any argument that comes along and posting lots of little reasons why this change is retarded convinces people that there's a large consensus that it's a problem, the logic is sound, and it needs to be fixed.

[Brinkman]

You guys never tried bug reporting it after the recent nerfs were made. How hard is this to understand? When Song of Twilight was nerfed I was able to get the mez cap raised on Crission's Pixie Strike, but I couldn't get it raised before. What's the harm in trying? And even if you can't get it changed, it's silly to complain about it. It's not like Bards complain about every nerf because swarm kiting still hasn't been fixed.



Hmm lets see ,there are prolly 10-20x ( maybe even 50x as many if you dont count alts under lvl 40 ) as many people playing pet classes.

Do you think there could possibaly be a corelation between that fact, and how you tend to see more pet class players complain? Do not get all smug saying bards dont comlplain.

[pickled_heretic]

You guys never tried bug reporting it after the recent nerfs were made. How hard is this to understand? When Song of Twilight was nerfed I was able to get the mez cap raised on Crission's Pixie Strike, but I couldn't get it raised before. What's the harm in trying? And even if you can't get it changed, it's silly to complain about it. It's not like Bards complain about every nerf because swarm kiting still hasn't been fixed.

you are implying that it's some kind of bargaining process to get changes to your class that reflect the way it was in classic? oh, you nerfed us good sir, now would you be so kind as to give us another pending change that was classic?

for fuck's sake. the server's either classic or it's not. this is getting ridiculous.

[Nihilist_santa]

I like how people say the solution is to group more. I started an enchanter to get groups but I cant cast any spells besides buffs or mob trains straight to me (don't remember that on classic). Also have you guys played a lowbie toon recently? Where the hell are the warriors? Im stuck grouping with hybrids which again suck exp. All the exp changes in this game almost made me quit live originally. I played troll sk. Sucked ass being passed for groups because of exp penalty.

[Quizy]

You guys never tried bug reporting it after the recent nerfs were made. How hard is this to understand? When Song of Twilight was nerfed I was able to get the mez cap raised on Crission's Pixie Strike, but I couldn't get it raised before. What's the harm in trying? And even if you can't get it changed, it's silly to complain about it. It's not like Bards complain about every nerf because swarm kiting still hasn't been fixed.

It's a thread discussing the recent changes.. thats what forums ARE FOR.. discussing changes... if you like them.. if you dont.. and why.. you just come here to argue dude and its quite annoying always seeing your negative posts... we understand the counter points and we dont need a cheerleader like your self preaching WHAT YOU THINK is the dev's stance on the issue..

please just stop lol

[hotstud]

It's a thread discussing the recent changes.. thats what forums ARE FOR.. discussing changes... if you like them.. if you dont.. and why.. you just come here to argue dude and its quite annoying always seeing your negative posts... we understand the counter points and we dont need a cheerleader like your self preaching WHAT YOU THINK is the dev's stance on the issue..

please just stop lol

Confirmed shit stain.

[mwatt]

I'm all for classic - "nerfs" and all.

I do think however that this 50% damage change should be rescinded until pet taunt is fixed. It would be logical, it would be fair, and it IS the right thing to do. Barring that, priority on a pet taunt fix should be bumped to top priority (and it would be very nice of someone to also say that).

Having said all that, I'll still keep playing, regardless. P99 is not perfect (what is?) but it is better than ANYTHING else out there.

Thanks for all you do - Nilborg, Rogean and crew.

[Sabin76]

I agree that this should have been changed WITH the agro and not before. But if it was going to cause huge problems on the PvP server, I can see why they rolled it out quickly. Kinda sucks that the changes can't be done independently (by server), but oh well.

I would like to see pet agro/weapon delay fixed to classic fairly soon in light of this rather large nerf to pet classes.

[hotstud]

I'm still confused how this is a huge nerf to mages. You just get rid of your pet and nuke it at end, it's a nerf but it's not "huge."

[Barn]

Not a huge thing, but I go through between 2 and 18 malachites getting a top pet at level 16. The lower pets get eaten pretty badly so I go for the best.
Will be annoying at 20 when I start giving him 2 daggers.
I can adjust, though. Still fun.

[Leeyuuduu]

So can anyone confirm if this xp change also applies to charmed things as well? I would check but my new chanter isn't high enough yet..

[Tah]

I can confirm this. The charmed pets will take your XP unless you break the charm, kill whatever it was that it was killing, then kill said charmed pet.

EDIT: Actually I meant the other way around. You have to kill your charmed pet, then kill whatever it was that it was killing to get full XP from both.

[Leeyuuduu]

Ok thanks!

PS Don't like the changes, but am willing to deal with it for classic.
FOR CLASSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[skrypts]

Anyone able to give more insight on the weapon damage changes? Also could you recommend some weapons that would be good to put on pets? For example, does the weapon damage always do 2x the base damage and if that amount isn't greater than the pet's natural damage it isn't worth putting the weapon on the pet? (Edit)

I tried giving my pet a weighted axe but it just ate it. This dwarven two-hander is proving to be quite a damage upgrade on my level 16 pet. Hitting for 29 instead of 20.

[Tux]

You guys need to stop whining, seriously. This still leaves pet classes as much faster soloers than every other class (except Bards).

It's hard to imagine you're impartial on the issue given your signature says you're rolling a bard on red99. AEing bards are likely already to be the fastest levelers on red99, and this change significantly impairs their only competition. Fairly easy to just tell people to "stop whining" when it hurts them and helps you.

As for p99, something that requires people to grind more is not going to be popular, and people are going to complain. That's only reasonable, p99 already has grinding in spades, certainly enough to relive the original grind without this modification.

If they really felt this had to go in, I think it should have waited for the same patch that removes the class exp penalties.

[skorge]

To make this change now is like taking crack away from a crackhead, of course he's going to get pissed and want it back, however it is classic and should have been in game on day one. I played a mage back in 99 I can tell you that even with this change, mages (any pet class for that matter) still level faster than any other class (maybe not bard).

That's the key right there (see the bold).

[skorge]

Anyone able to give more insight on the weapon damage changes? Also could you recommend some weapons that would be good to put on pets? For example, does the weapon damage always do 2x the base damage and if that amount isn't greater than the pet's natural damage it isn't worth putting the weapon on the pet? (Edit)

I tried giving my pet a weighted axe but it just ate it. This dwarven two-hander is proving to be quite a damage upgrade on my level 16 pet. Hitting for 29 instead of 20.

You want to give your pet high damage weapons only...forget about delay. The weighted axe eventually went to no-pet which meant pets could not equip. I am unsure on the time frame it got nerfed to no-pet, but it was one of the only weapons in the game to have this happen (I think along with the slow-stick).

[Tux]

To make this change now is like taking crack away from a crackhead, of course he's going to get pissed and want it back, however it is classic and should have been in game on day one. I played a mage back in 99 I can tell you that even with this change, mages (any pet class for that matter) still level faster than any other class (maybe not bard).

As a 60 necro it's easy to dismiss the complaints of level 20-something pet-classes needing to grind more as the whinings of a crackhead.

[MrSparkle001]

It hasn't affected my necro so far, but is it really fair to say that? They have tools that help keep mobs away from them, so they can lifetap and rack up the damage.

That doesn't mean I like the change, not when pet delay and aggro remain the same (IE not classic).

[Vondra]

Did druid just become the second fastest class to levelup solo? I think it did.

[Splorf22]

So I don't really mind nerfs to charm soloing because (lets face it) it was insanely OP if you were even moderately good. Besides, the whole point of EQ is to group and meet and chat up random strangers. And if you have a goblin gazhugi ring and a good supply of mobs you can mostly get around this anyway.

What's more irritating to me is (as pickled says) this is a pretty substantial nerf to enchanters in small groups, since a charmed pet will easily outdps 1 tank + 1 dps class (plus, that dps class now has to be rogue/monk because a mage/necro will just supply another pet. So realistically, if you want to have a charmed pet you need at least 2 monks/rogues in your group. That's kind of uncool).

[kaev]

Wow... just wow. You're all up in arms over being reduced to only ~ 10x as effective at soloing as a melee? Seriously? Entitlement mentality barely begins to describe this. Wow.

I like how people say the solution is to group more. I started an enchanter to get groups but I cant cast any spells besides buffs or mob trains straight to me (don't remember that on classic). Also have you guys played a lowbie toon recently? Where the hell are the warriors? Im stuck grouping with hybrids which again suck exp. All the exp changes in this game almost made me quit live originally. I played troll sk. Sucked ass being passed for groups because of exp penalty.

First, why would anybody bother playing a Warrior when a Mage or Necro is a thousand times better unless you have either a steady group or a pocket 50 Necro to PL you?

Second, I find it mind-boggling that they've replicated the moronic EQ XP penalties here. "Hey guys, hybrids might be 5% as effective as pet casters at soloing, so let's penalize every fool who groups with hybrids."

[Vondra]

So I don't really mind nerfs to charm soloing because (lets face it) it was insanely OP if you were even moderately good. Besides, the whole point of EQ is to group and meet and chat up random strangers. And if you have a goblin gazhugi ring and a good supply of mobs you can mostly get around this anyway.

What's more irritating to me is (as pickled says) this is a pretty substantial nerf to enchanters in small groups, since a charmed pet will easily outdps 1 tank + 1 dps class (plus, that dps class now has to be rogue/monk because a mage/necro will just supply another pet. So realistically, if you want to have a charmed pet you need at least 2 monks/rogues in your group. That's kind of uncool).

Yeah the soloing isn't so bad. In fact even if you do the usual charm stuff and even get 50% on the first mob you kill, when you break charm and kill your former pet you'll get 100% on that one. (Of course if you feel like fiddling around and don't mind nuking twice you can break charm early, kill your former pet first, then get 100% on both too).

But it sucks big time for small group...and especially duo play. You can't go and say...duo with an sk and fear kite while you use a charm pet for dps. Your charmed pet is where most of the damage is so now the exp is cut in half doing that. In fact, in almost every combination of ench + somebody duo, this is going to be annoying. Funny enough ENC + cleric is hit the least hard, since it's basically "soloing with a healer", thus you'd be breaking charm/killing pet regularly for full exp the most often.

Beyond enchanters, there's enough pet class dps going around that you can run into this as a problem even in full groups. It isn't constant, but it certainly isn't uncommon to have the dps in your group in sebilis or something consist of 2 mages and a necro or whatever.

I can live with the change, but it's pretty disappointing and makes the game a bit less fun.

[chief]

hopefully mend goes back to refreshing everytime you zone omg

[wingelefoot]

So I don't really mind nerfs to charm soloing because (lets face it) it was insanely OP if you were even moderately good. Besides, the whole point of EQ is to group and meet and chat up random strangers. And if you have a goblin gazhugi ring and a good supply of mobs you can mostly get around this anyway.

What's more irritating to me is (as pickled says) this is a pretty substantial nerf to enchanters in small groups, since a charmed pet will easily outdps 1 tank + 1 dps class (plus, that dps class now has to be rogue/monk because a mage/necro will just supply another pet. So realistically, if you want to have a charmed pet you need at least 2 monks/rogues in your group. That's kind of uncool).

felt this firsthand tonight. had an aggro kite group with a mage and necro... exp was painfully slow due to pet nerf. i can see why you guys might want to nerf solo play of mages as it stands now, but this solution isn't making mages or necros particularly appealing to groups. after tonight, i'll be leaning towards groups with 1 or less pet class. and hell no to charm pets in groups!

[DarthPeon]

This shit better not be active on red99 I swear to god.

Cry some more about how hard eq is. Even if you get 50% exp on every kill with your mage/nec, you are still not leveling as slow as a troll sk.

And people have leveled troll/ogre sks just fine.

Because not everything is classic, sometimes on purpose, so when something is nerfed in the name of "classic" it's bothersome.

I have a feeling when I log on and start kiting I'm gonna take a massive XP hit, because my pet normally does a lot more than 50% of the damage because of the DOT reduction on moving targets. I used to think I was doing more than 50% because I got decent XP, but now I know that that's not the case at all.

Revert this change :)

You short sighted scrub, why should your nec/mage avoid the benefits of classic eq, while a hybrid exp penalty which the original devs later removed in velious stating that it wasn't necessary still be in game?

Eq is tough, that's what makes it great. You still are not leveling as slow as a troll/ogre sk, with more utility and less downtime as well.


I was going to continue quoting more people up in arms about a classic change, but what's the point. You're eq players, you're supposed to have thicker skin. Adapt.

[Juugox2]

good less mages and necs this effects charmd pets to im guessing? dont see why it wouldnt but wondering anyway

[Timarian]

As a mage I have no issue with doing 50% of damage infact I welcome it as it makes the class more fun to play. But with pet aggro the way it is this is not workable. The only way I can use my nukes and not get aggro is to nuke only when it takes mobs into flee mode.

Honestly this should have been done in line with pet aggro fixes which strikes me as commonsense and I think the pet aggro fixes should be top priority for fixes.

But I think the developers are doing a fantastic job and I have loved my return to the world of EQ :)

Tim

[beentheredonethat]

good less mages and necs this effects charmd pets to im guessing? dont see why it wouldnt but wondering anyway

my necro pet does maybe 5% damage if that even to mobs so not an issue either way.

I think they nerfed pet damage at some point, my brand new lvl 16 pet dies to blue mobs like a pushover.

[pickled_heretic]

felt this firsthand tonight. had an aggro kite group with a mage and necro... exp was painfully slow due to pet nerf. i can see why you guys might want to nerf solo play of mages as it stands now, but this solution isn't making mages or necros particularly appealing to groups. after tonight, i'll be leaning towards groups with 1 or less pet class. and hell no to charm pets in groups!

this bears repeating, multiple times, in this thread. i would be absolutely thrilled to be in a group every time i log in on my enchanter, it's part of the reason why i made him. i'm 100% positive that charmed pets will outdamage and KS from any duo, most trios, and even some full group compositions. this is a huge nerf to enchanter grouping ability, and i think mages and necros will encounter some of the same problems.

[Palemoon]

And yet pet classes will still level faster then all others

And yet groups with pet classes will still kill far faster then all others, i.e. more loot, easier named kills, be able to hold down higher level camps better..etc.etc.etc

There is nothing to cry about.

[pickled_heretic]

And yet pet classes will still level faster then all others


inb4 druid/bard

[MrSparkle001]

You short sighted scrub, why should your nec/mage avoid the benefits of classic eq, while a hybrid exp penalty which the original devs later removed in velious stating that it wasn't necessary still be in game?

Eq is tough, that's what makes it great. You still are not leveling as slow as a troll/ogre sk, with more utility and less downtime as well.


I was going to continue quoting more people up in arms about a classic change, but what's the point. You're eq players, you're supposed to have thicker skin. Adapt.

I've already said it's not affecting me. I'm doing more than 50% of the damage when I solo. I was afraid I wasn't, but I do.

I don't think we should have the XP penalty either btw. It never served a purpose other than frustration. It's a product of the early days of one of the earliest MMORPGs, when things were very much experimental. I mean they let something like the manastone exist for a while, not knowing how OP it really was. Things back then were an experiment in MMORPG design, and while they got most of it right they got somethings glaringly wrong (and not coincidentally repealed at some point later in the game).

When you see these nerfs to pet classes and yet a dev saying pet delay will never be changed, you question their motives. Are they trying to make this server truly classic, or are they trying to balance it as they see fit, regardless of classic? It does make you wonder.

Aggro is screwed up which makes it tough to do that much damage to a mob (necros have spells to keep mobs away) and pet delay in classic let you kill at a faster rate, somewhat negating the XP hit from a pet that did the majority of damage.

[casdegere]

I am sooo glad my Chanter is level 60. I knew this was coming! Another reason that Shamans become the premium solo class from what I remembered on Live.

For those like MrSparkle that are complaining...its not about YOUR convenience. Its about EQclassic. Or as close to it that the Devs believe make their server classic. I played a Chanter and a Rogue from 1999 on on live. Rogues were broken and Enchanters were badass...at first. Nerf after nerf and fix after fix...the Rogue got better and my Chanter got worse hehe. Both classes ended up almost always having to group to get xp consistently.

[mimixownzall]

This only works while soloing right? It shouldn't work in groups, correct?

[Daldaen]

Change mob hitboxes! Not classic and makes AE kiting harder than it was on live :(.

[mala]

i can say with almost 100% certainty that if pet agro isnt fixed but they retain this new pet damage rule i will never play my mage again, nor will i play on red99 (which ive been looking forward to for months). There is no point in trying to dance around broken mechanics, if they want classic then the rest of the mechanics that have to do with pets need to be fixed as well.

and before i get abunch of "good no one cares", "its their server be grateful", "otherbullshittycomeback0131415"... chasing away people should NEVER be the goal of the dev's, and changing fundamental mechanics without changing all other associated mechanics does just that.

[falkun]

because the devs want the only effective solo class to be necro and druid, anything else is Not Classic (tm)

You forgot Bard, and Wizards at higher levels.

why would you fucking nerf charm soloing exp of all things. Nerf PBAOE and bard swarm kiting exp

They did nerf Bard AE kiting (as per classic timeline, and even though it will get repealed during Velious):
If a mob is moving (fear/flee don't count) when the damage from a dot is applied, it will take 66% of the damage that it would have normally taken.
Also, Charm swarm kiting has never worked on this server due to the way aggro transfers, so bards cannot use a kiting method that was viable on classic Live.

Also have you guys played a lowbie toon recently? Where the hell are the warriors? Im stuck grouping with hybrids which again suck exp. All the exp changes in this game almost made me quit live originally. I played troll sk. Sucked ass being passed for groups because of exp penalty.
I feel no sympathy for a person that perpetuates a discrimination that he has been on the other side of.

[MrSparkle001]

I am sooo glad my Chanter is level 60. I knew this was coming! Another reason that Shamans become the premium solo class from what I remembered on Live.

For those like MrSparkle that are complaining...its not about YOUR convenience. Its about EQclassic. Or as close to it that the Devs believe make their server classic. I played a Chanter and a Rogue from 1999 on on live.

Complaining about this change? No. I'm saying without fixing pet aggro and delay this change is too much. It's not classic right now. My main is a necro so this change doesn't affect me (so far).

But, this change should have been stalled until at least aggro was fixed. Bonus if it was stalled until pet delay was fixed. Then it would be classic.

What's troublesome is how a dev said pet delay would never be changed. That's what I'm complaining about. Pet delay was classic, so why intentionally leave that out but add the others? Why cherry-pick some changes but not others? Why cherry-pick the nerfs but not the bonuses? They're all classic, they should all be implemented, right? Can anyone here honestly say "no" to that?

[Runeblade]

Yeah I'm tired of the "it's classic!" commentary when it's far from classic in so many aspects. If we're going "classic", we should get all the good with the bad, not just the nerfs! Or better yet, leave it the way it was since it's been that way for a long time and didn't seem to bother anyone, and the improved system is pretty close to classic era anyway.

[Tuffpuppy]

P1999 home of "Classic" everquest. Or rather some peoples own vision of classic everquest. Maybe if they get around to fixing before they nerf I will log back in again, till then toodles.

[casdegere]

My alt is a Human Ranger. Heavily twinked but still a Ranger (-40%). I group mainly with a Wood Elf Druid, a Human Enchanter and an Iksar SK(-68%). Everyone gets xp, we have a great time, rinse repeat. Not sure what the issues are?

Soloing was never easy on live regardless of class. One false turn for a Bard during a mass kite and you might be screwed. Spells being resisted as a caster class and same result was possible.

For inconsistencies, bitching won't get anything changed. The devs respond to proof of what you say otherwise it is mainly viewed I think as an opinion. They have built this server and its pretty darn close to what I remember. 1000's of tweaks based on old information that they investigated or users submitted over time. Here you are bitching about 1 or 2 without doing any research. Buck up or shut up. I bet you people are likely to show up at a party empty-handed and then complain about the dip and the brand of beer available to consume.

On live I played many classes including an Iksar Necro to around 29-30th level and soloing was never piece of cake. Resists, failure to do enough damage, adds, what-have-you. If you want to solo that's fine but I do not remember it being pleasant for me during Kunark/Velious era.

[MrSparkle001]

Here you are bitching about 1 or 2 without doing any research. Buck up or shut up.

What's to research? Weapon delay affected pets. Nothing to research there. It's common knowledge even for those of us who can barely remember many aspects of this game.

[Chokan]

Please support the bug report I posted. Maybe at least it will get a response?

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52490

[casdegere]

That bug is well known but I gather that changing it creates either another issue or a game imbalance.

[pickled_heretic]

That bug is well known but I gather that changing it creates either another issue or a game imbalance.

i'm sorry, what? we're talking about Classic (TM). the whole game of everquest was just one big game imbalance. it's either classic or it isn't.

[casdegere]

i'm sorry, what? we're talking about Classic (TM). the whole game of everquest was just one big game imbalance. it's either classic or it isn't.

Well I admit I do not know the facts of this but do you? I do not know their reasoning behind their actions most of the time. I just logon to play dude. ;)

[pickled_heretic]

Well I admit I do not know the facts of this but do you? I do not know their reasoning behind their actions most of the time. I just logon to play dude. ;)

in spite of posting evidence to the contrary, we were told that pet delays would never be lowered. no reason was ever provided, we were just told to stop whining, as per this post:

I don't care how much anyone whines. Pet delays will not be lowered, if the weapon has a lower delay. But enough about that.


oh wait, a reason WAS provided. Pets were "overpowered."

Why haven't I fixed it? Pets are way overpowered already.

Clear it up for ya?

H

were pets overpowered in classic? you're damn right they were. that's Classic. i hope nobody ever uses the "classic" argument again here.

[Sithel1988]

so we must do 51% more dmg than our pet to get xp? then why did they add the feature that lets pet do more dmg with the right weapon applied? i guess pet classes are only good for groups now.

[MrSparkle001]

so we must do 51% more dmg than our pet to get xp? then why did they add the feature that lets pet do more dmg with the right weapon applied? i guess pet classes are only good for groups now.

There's speculation that it's because of the PvP server. I don't know how true it is, but either way this was too soon, with aggro and pet delay still not fixed.

[Peatree]

I like how people bitch and complain about how things are not how they want things to be, especially in a game that is developed and provided by people at no cost. Just saying.

Hey devs, do what you want. I'm grateful that I get to play the game for free.

[pickled_heretic]

I like how people bitch and complain about how things are not how they want things to be, especially in a game that is developed and provided by people at no cost. Just saying.

Hey devs, do what you want. I'm grateful that I get to play the game for free.

um, the game is free because it's literally against the law for them to charge for it.

don't misunderstand me. it's really great that they are putting time into this server and making it available to the public. but no amount of giving me free shit is going to make me ignore the cognitive dissonance that is taking place.

[Peatree]

um, the game is free because it's literally against the law for them to charge for it.

don't misunderstand me. it's really great that they are putting time into this server and making it available to the public. but no amount of giving me free shit is going to make me ignore the cognitive dissonance that is taking place.

How's the bringing up cognitive dissonance working for you so far? If it is too much of an issue then why not spend the time/effort to create your own server, develop the game, etc....so then you can play the game the way you like it? :D

[Nihilist_santa]

I feel no sympathy for a person that perpetuates a discrimination that he has been on the other side of.

You are a moron. It is not perpetuated discrimination . Its not like i am adhering to some unfounded stereotype. It is a FACT that hybrids have xp penalties and the group suffers for it. I know this because my main on live was a troll SK. I am not trying to be a hypocrite ffs I am trying to avoid the pitfalls that I encountered on live when i originally played this game. I think most of us are. The people who are here saying how great groups are with hybrids probably didn't even start playing til the penalty was removed. Revisionist history abounds here.

The reason I am upset is because this so called "classic" experience is anything but unless you consider lack of classes and content classic because that is about all you get. I am however grateful for the chance to play I just always thought the whole "nerf" concept was stupid. Its based on someone else s interpretation of how a class should be played. Well if it is truly classic there should not be that much to interpret. We all know the patch history and nerfs we know what classes were capable of and what they were not. We know which BAD decisions were made by the devs and we know what they did to fix it.

If these changes are due to Red99 then again that is not classic. If anything pvp was so horribly unbalanced and broken in classic because they did not choose to balance the game around pvp encounters. This is a pve game with pvp tacked on as an afterthought.

If I am mistaken about anything I will humbly concede but honestly I think people suffer from selective memory here. And although I am complaining it is only because I thoroughly have been enjoying myself on this server however my enjoyment is lessened on a regular basis...

The people that suffer most from this are the late comers. The ones who didn't plan their path ahead of time to take advantage of nerfs to items and classes that were coming. The people who are happy about this already have their cash cow pet class/soloer and now are mad because their melee alt isnt leveling as fast.

[pickled_heretic]

How's the bringing up cognitive dissonance working for you so far?

Great.

If it is too much of an issue then why not spend the time/effort to create your own server, develop the game, etc....so then you can play the game the way you like it? :D

Why bother when someone else has done 99% of the work? I just need to convince them of the other 1%.

The argument is pretty much infallible. If this server is a faithful representation of classic, it should be no argument that weapon delay on pets should be in. If it's not a faithful representation, then any other argument founded on "classic eq" is invalid.

[Mithaniel Marr]

"classic eq" is invalid.

this

[Hamahakki]

The amount of whining in this thread is incredible.

Are people really complaining that they only solo 10x better than melee instead of 20x?

[MrSparkle001]

This isn't about melee vs pet class. Nobody plays a melee and expects to solo as well.

This is about introducing a "classic" change while purposely not introducing other "classic" changes, in this case two changes that directly affect pet classes. One is a nerf, one is a buff.

[pickled_heretic]

Are people really complaining that they only solo 10x better than melee instead of 20x?

I sympathize with you.

But that's the way it was on live and that's the way most people want it here.

[Hamahakki]

I sympathize with you.

But that's the way it was on live and that's the way most people want it here.

I wouldn't want it any other way. I'm just shocked at the people complaining about their solo ability getting nerfed from ridiculous to merely excellent.

[Chokan]

I wouldn't want it any other way. I'm just shocked at the people complaining about their solo ability getting nerfed from ridiculous to merely excellent.

25% of the xp we used to get is merely excellent.

[Autotune]

everyone in this thread needs to


L2P

[Hamahakki]

It's not 25%.

You could solo exactly as you would before and still get 50%.

Any mobs on which you outdamage will increase that.

[inyane]

what the fuck do some of you not understand in this thread?

NOBODY IS FUCKING BITCHING ABOUT NEEDING TO DO OVER 50% OF DAMAGE TO GET FULL EXPERIENCE.

Yes, that is classic, we get it. Now shut the fuck up.

We are bitching because other game mechanics which are NEEDED to be able to do that 51% damage without getting our asses stomped DO NOT FUCKING WORK HERE

[Autotune]

what the fuck do some of you not understand in this thread?

NOBODY IS FUCKING BITCHING ABOUT NEEDING TO DO OVER 50% OF DAMAGE TO GET FULL EXPERIENCE.

Yes, that is classic, we get it. Now shut the fuck up.

We are bitching because other game mechanics which are NEEDED to be able to do that 51% damage without getting our asses stomped DO NOT FUCKING WORK HERE

L2P

[Roanoke]

The amount of whining in this thread is incredible.

Are people really complaining that they only solo 10x better than melee instead of 20x?

This is EverQuest. A group based game. Melee were never intended to be able to solo like the pet classes. This isn't about being fair to the people who choose to play melee, that was YOUR DECISION TO CHOOSE A GROUP CLASS. It's about being fair to the people who set out to play pet classes and are missing some of the mechanics to be able to do so.

[Literati]

Wow, you people are something else. The fact that pet-classes are still better at soloing than melee classes has nothing to do with anything, of course they are going to be better at soloing. The fact is that they are not as effective at as they should be in an effort to be "classic" while their pets are kept not "classic" deliberately, which also has a negative effect on the class.

Using "classic" as a means to nerf my class, then dismissing my call to keep the game "classic" because my class is too good? Do you guys really not see why this annoys people?

[Kevlar]

This is EverQuest. A group based game. Melee were never intended to be able to solo like the pet classes. This isn't about being fair to the people who choose to play melee, that was YOUR DECISION TO CHOOSE A GROUP CLASS. It's about being fair to the people who set out to play pet classes and are missing some of the mechanics to be able to do so.

It is one of the things that makes everquest such a shitty game though. No kind of balance between the classes. I mean you have uber necros and mages soloing reds, while most melees can't handle a dark blue, and when they can they have to sit on their ass for 10 mins after wasting a couple gold on bandages.

Granted, the game is a lot of fun if you just stick to the uber classes.

[Literati]

It is one of the things that makes everquest such a shitty game though. No kind of balance between the classes. I mean you have uber necros and mages soloing reds, while most melees can't handle a dark blue, and when they can they have to sit on their ass for 10 mins after wasting a couple gold on bandages.

Granted, the game is a lot of fun if you just stick to the uber classes.

I don't know about that, I feel that the game is fun when you are playing the class you like, no matter what it is or how hard it may be. If you like warrior, for example, then thats what you should play if you want to have fun, but in the year 2011, on a not so highly populated server, of course theres gonna be a large amount of solo classes.

In the end though, in a server aiming for classic, you can't deliberately dismiss people for asking for things to be classic. If they stated their reasons were to balance the game, there wouldn't be as many people mad. Their reasons are "keeping it classic" though, which is simply not true.

[Nihilist_santa]

Am I the only person who has considered the fact that changes like this happened in "Classic/Live" because Everquest was becoming more popular and it was a subscription based game owned and operated by Sony? The whole business model revolved around making you play longer......I mean im sure everyone here was so consumed with the game at that time that we really thought this was a balance issue that needed addressing. The corrections that came later such as hybrid xp penalties and such were probably based more on the fact that Sony/Everquest was actually encountering competition in the market.

Then again perhaps I am just being paranoid....

[Tux]

Am I the only person who has considered the fact that changes like this happened in "Classic/Live" because Everquest was becoming more popular and it was a subscription based game owned and operated by Sony? The whole business model revolved around making you play longer......I mean im sure everyone here was so consumed with the game at that time that we really thought this was a balance issue that needed addressing. The corrections that came later such as hybrid xp penalties and such were probably based more on the fact that Sony/Everquest was actually encountering competition in the market.

Then again perhaps I am just being paranoid....

Exp penalties were almost certainly inspired from D&D which in interviews the design team says they played and borrowed heavily from. The original design figured a 9th level paladin will be stronger then a 9th level warrior, so crude balancing steps were taken such as exp penalties which attempt to change the comparison to a 7th level paladin vs 9th level warrior (based on accumulated exp) instead.

Of course in practice this doesn't happen at all, people group based on their levels not compared experience accumulated, rangers are not 40% better then clerics, etc. It became obvious that it was stupid, so it was removed once recognized in EQ, never existed in WoW and will never exist in another commercially successful MMORG. It only passes here because we're insane and hunger for nostalgia.

But this is getting way off topic. The topic here is asking me to do what I'd have to do 9000 times, 18000 times instead deserves a lot of complaining. Exp penalties are a serious consideration at character creation, people making rangers knew what they were signing up for, people hit with this change didn't.

[Roanoke]

It is one of the things that makes everquest such a shitty game though. No kind of balance between the classes. I mean you have uber necros and mages soloing reds, while most melees can't handle a dark blue, and when they can they have to sit on their ass for 10 mins after wasting a couple gold on bandages.

Granted, the game is a lot of fun if you just stick to the uber classes.

Again, EQ is not a solo game.

Roll a melee, expect to group. "Balance" doesn't come into the picture at all. This game predates all the bullshit MMO's where you twiddle your thumbs solo and DING MAX LEVEL. If that's the kind of game you are looking for there are plenty of opportunities out there to fulfill a challenge-less experience.

Edit: EQ shitty? It's 12 years old. EQ was the Optimus Prime of MMOs when it released.

[Autotune]

Again, EQ is not a solo game.

Roll a melee, expect to group. "Balance" doesn't come into the picture at all. This game predates all the bullshit MMO's where you twiddle your thumbs solo and DING MAX LEVEL. If that's the kind of game you are looking for there are plenty of opportunities out there to fulfill a challenge-less experience.

Edit: EQ shitty? It's 12 years old. EQ was the Optimus Prime of MMOs when it released.

confirmed idiot.

EQ is a solo game as well as a grouping game. Soloing classes usually have a hard time finding groups where as shitty solo classes usually excel in getting groups (aside from rangers).


The only class that is both good at soloing and has great potential for groups is an Enchanter (should also be necro's but people hate them for odd reasons).

Also, I find it much more rewarding and fun not having to play with 5 incompetent retards that I have to rely on to progress. I'd rather solo dungeon camps and take all the risk myself than the alternative (unless i'm playing with 5 other people as good as I am).

Edit: the thing about Grouping classes. They are usually more desirable in raid settings and high level camps ( Seb Shroom king etc. ) where as necros, mages, druids really aren't desirable for much other than basic utilities. In overall balance of the game, I think it's pretty even. soooo

STFU and stop crying.

[Lazortag]

...

The only class that is both good at soloing and has great potential for groups is an Enchanter ...

Bard? Mage? Necro? Shaman?

...

[Autotune]

Bard? Mage? Necro? Shaman?

...

Bards sometimes yeah, but usually gets overlooked for enchanters, same with shamans (both are prefer'd over necros)


Bards < Enchanters most of the time (both i like tho)

Mages (never seen them needed for much of any group)

Shamans (this one around high 50's and 60 are definitely as powerful or more so than necro and enchanter, but before hand not so much)

Shamans are more on a level with necros, mages and enchanters at 60 but I don't see many of them around the upper 40's low 50's soloing in Lguk or anything of that nature. They are definitely powerhouses at 60 tho.

Edit again: I was mostly speaking on the terms of Soloing outdoors and indoors ( which mostly only Necros, Enchanters and Mages [in some cases] can do ). I haven't seen many Bards or Shamans leveling solo in the mid level to higher level dungeons. Again, shamans start to around mid 50s, but not overall like mages, enchanters and necros.

[Lazortag]

Edit again: I was mostly speaking on the terms of Soloing outdoors and indoors ( which mostly only Necros, Enchanters and Mages [in some cases] can do ).

...Bards?

[Autotune]

...Bards?

again speaking totally on the ability to do both lol.

Everyone know's bards can run circles in OT.

[Lazortag]

again speaking totally on the ability to do both lol.

Everyone know's bards can run circles in OT.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/itsnotrightnotright/aekiteHS.jpg

...Bards?

[Autotune]

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/itsnotrightnotright/aekiteHS.jpg

Get me a picture of you doing that in Seb, or in KC's LCY/RCY.

Or in LGuk around mid 40s to low 50s.

or Kedge around upper 40s to low 50s.

I would also take any picture of you soloing a "money" camp while also getting xp (by money camp I mean a camp in which a high value item* drops in a dungeon)

[Lazortag]

Get me a picture of you doing that in Seb, or in KC's LCY/RCY.

Or in LGuk around mid 40s to low 50s.

or Kedge around upper 40s to low 50s.

I would also take any picture of you soloing a "money" camp while also getting xp

What you're asking for are the keys to the castle. I don't just give them to everyone, Stealin. You have to earn them.

"I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it."

[Autotune]

What you're asking for are the keys to the castle. I don't just give them to everyone, Stealin. You have to earn them.

"I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it."

I know some of it could possibly be done (KC drolvarg captain area comes to mind.)

Still, bards are much more limited to what they can/can't do than say, necros and enchanters.

As far as just pure leveling solo, bards have it the easiest. As far as leveling and the ability to solo camps (in and out of dungeons) for money, necros and enchanters probably have it the easiest followed by mages.

[Leeyuuduu]

confirmed idiot.

EQ is a solo game as well as a grouping game. Soloing classes usually have a hard time finding groups where as shitty solo classes usually excel in getting groups (aside from rangers).


The only class that is both good at soloing and has great potential for groups is an Enchanter (should also be necro's but people hate them for odd reasons)..

EQ classic was never a solo game. UO was a solo game. The "this class for groups" and "this class for solo" or "this class for raids" mentality was not present in classic, nor was a huge part of the game catered around it like it later came to be, both for EQ and almost all modern MMOs.
Moreso than changes in mechanics (though this nerf can certainly be seen as such) there's been a change in mindset between now and when classic existed. People either don't have time or the will to group, or they are anti-social and use the former as an excuse.

[rigi]

i dont really remember any bards on my server running in circles kiting 20 mobs at a time that must not be classic id love to see a bard nerf

[Roanoke]

confirmed idiot.

EQ is a solo game as well as a grouping game. Soloing classes usually have a hard time finding groups where as shitty solo classes usually excel in getting groups (aside from rangers).


The only class that is both good at soloing and has great potential for groups is an Enchanter (should also be necro's but people hate them for odd reasons).

Also, I find it much more rewarding and fun not having to play with 5 incompetent retards that I have to rely on to progress. I'd rather solo dungeon camps and take all the risk myself than the alternative (unless i'm playing with 5 other people as good as I am).

Edit: the thing about Grouping classes. They are usually more desirable in raid settings and high level camps ( Seb Shroom king etc. ) where as necros, mages, druids really aren't desirable for much other than basic utilities. In overall balance of the game, I think it's pretty even. soooo

STFU and stop crying.

Sorry, wrong. People didn't have the "solo" mentality that they do now. That thought process is thanks to modern MMOs who have streamlined the leveling aspect of the game to allow for broader appeal. Classic EQ was primarily a group game.

You COULD solo on a few classes but it was not the preferred method of playing for most people. That's not to say that people didn't solo, but remember that live EQs population was dramatically higher than on P99. There was much more competition for camps and mobs, and in that case groups won out over solo 9 times out of 10.

[Splorf22]

I don't understand this solo-rage. If you want to solo, why not buy a copy of some newer RPG with amazingly superior graphics where you don't have to camp stuff for 12 hours+ ?

My problem with this change is that it significantly limits pet classes in small groups.

[Autotune]

EQ classic was never a solo game. UO was a solo game. The "this class for groups" and "this class for solo" or "this class for raids" mentality was not present in classic, nor was a huge part of the game catered around it like it later came to be, both for EQ and almost all modern MMOs.
Moreso than changes in mechanics (though this nerf can certainly be seen as such) there's been a change in mindset between now and when classic existed. People either don't have time or the will to group, or they are anti-social and use the former as an excuse.

because you don't remember it, doesn't mean that's not the way it was.

I solo'd an enchanter on Prexus, much for the same reason I solo'd on P99 for the most part.

Sorry, wrong. People didn't have the "solo" mentality that they do now. That thought process is thanks to modern MMOs who have streamlined the leveling aspect of the game to allow for broader appeal. Classic EQ was primarily a group game.

You COULD solo on a few classes but it was not the preferred method of playing for most people. That's not to say that people didn't solo, but remember that live EQs population was dramatically higher than on P99. There was much more competition for camps and mobs, and in that case groups won out over solo 9 times out of 10.

See the above. I remember quite a few people soloing back in the day.
My mentality, as well as some others I remember, was the same. Soloing = less hassle dealing with idiots. I wasn't as bad about it back then as I am now ( I rarely join groups at all ), but I still solo'd 90% of the time.


i dont really remember any bards on my server running in circles kiting 20 mobs at a time that must not be classic id love to see a bard nerf
This guy hit the nail on the head.

just because you don't remember seeing people do something doesn't mean shit. You had tons of shitty players on your server or you are an idiot and dont remember.

I don't understand this solo-rage. If you want to solo, why not buy a copy of some newer RPG with amazingly superior graphics where you don't have to camp stuff for 12 hours+ ?

My problem with this change is that it significantly limits pet classes in small groups.

soloing for levels is just one aspect of an mmorpg. You still have the economy and surrounded by actual players, which gives the game an unexpected factor.

I don't see the big deal of forcing people to play with retards, but obviously some people like that, you don't see me wanting everyone to be forced to solo do ya?

Soloing happened. Soloing is classic. L2p

[Timarian]

Logged on Mage yesterday and tried a blue guard in Misty. Let pet damage to 60% health all the while he was taunting.....1 nuke and the mob came straight for me and smacked the crap outta me interrupted next nuke and then I managed to get the next off to take him just to flee mode but he got me to 50% health with that. If i had root of fear then this would be easy.

This was a blue anything higher and I might have got eaten.

No one is disputing the change was necessary but it was implemented without much thought for the consequences.

I played live from release and I always remember mages and necros being great soloers - its classic.

But as it is now my mage has hung up his boots and is semi retired as I play him to solo when I dont have time for a group and tanking as a mage doesnt make for a fun time.

FYI necros, enchs and wizards have spells to prevent them from tanking i.e. root, mez, fear and snare MAGES HAVE NONE OF THIS we rely purely on our pets to hold aggro whilst we do our damage and if this is broken then so are we.

Fix pet aggro for the win.

Gandulf.

[yaeger]

Thank you for making the game a little more difficult for solo players and still improving on bringing it closer to Classic. Maybe now the pet classes will group more often and make this feel more like a true Classic server.

Surprised at how many posts were made in two days. Keep ruffling feathers devs!

[gnomishfirework]

Just because x isnt classic, doesn't mean the devs aren't going to fix y to be classic. They're likely working on x (and z, and a, and b, and c) as well.

Don't like it? Blame verant.

[Tah]

Thank you for making the game a little more difficult for solo players and still improving on bringing it closer to Classic. Maybe now the pet classes will group more often and make this feel more like a true Classic server.

Surprised at how many posts were made in two days. Keep ruffling feathers devs!

Lol. The pet classes that are actually affected by this, with the exception of Enchanter, aren't even ideal for grouping. They can still bring a great deal to a group, but after the holy triumvirate of tank-healer-enchanter is filled, who are you going to choose to fill those last three spots? Probably not a mage or necro unless there's nobody else. Your argument that this nerf will encourage mages or necros to group is kind of weak. Even then, it seems that necros don't have that big of an issue with dealing more than 50% of the damage. Mages are most affected by the nerf.

Either way, it is what it is. The devs will do what they want. It's a free server. We can complain all we want, but at the end of the day, you can decide to buck up and play, or quit.

[Timarian]

I really do not understand the attitude of like it or quit, surely its in everyones best interest to maintain the population server levels for game enrichment.

This doesnt mean bending to everyones will but it does mean fixing problems which do have a big impact on a classess ability to play as was intended to by the original game designers.

Mages cannot hunt on there own without some sort of mechanism to prevent them tanking which they cannot do, all other casters have that mechanism, root, snare, fear etc. We have pets and only pets.

Pet aggro needs to be fixed to prevent an exodus of mages which can group but are often over looked for groups if something better is available.

I think that is a very very reasonable request and I should really get no objection as it doesnt effect class balance imo.

This is a constructive comment and all it would take is a developer to drop a post saying they will look into it and the thread is over, very simple.

Gandulf

[Daldaen]

Mages have a means of preventing a mob from attacking them, you just don't want to use it. Earth pet root.

That being said, pet aggro needs fixing also weren't pets deemed too overpowered so they removed their ability to dual wield innately at higher levels? Shouldn't that nerf get undone or has it been, my pet classes are pretty low level so I don't keep up with this.

[Timarian]

Pre 50 earth pets arent the best and root of the earth pet is not reliable plus their damage output is poor (which means pet weapon delay issue becomes an important).

But that said the pet aggro issue also then makes our three other pets redundant out of group which I presume wasnt intended?

I think this post is valid and worthy of developer attention and possibly a response.

Gandulf

[inyane]

Earth pet root? Seriously? That's your answer?

Bahahahahahaha

Yeah, that shit is great when you are lvl 12 and can tank the mob yourself anyway.

Know how long a 50+ mage lasts with an appropriate level mob beating on them?

The answer is not long enough to hope that your pet may actually proc root, which I see happen 1-2 times a fight

[MrSparkle001]

That being said, pet aggro needs fixing also weren't pets deemed too overpowered so they removed their ability to dual wield innately at higher levels? Shouldn't that nerf get undone or has it been, my pet classes are pretty low level so I don't keep up with this.

When was innate dual wield removed? If it was during Velious or after, we shouldn't be affected by it right now. After all, if we can't have the Luclin era new pet XP scheme, we shouldn't have Luclin era (or later) nerfs.

I don't know if pets can't dual wield innately here as I'm not high enough yet, and I don't know when they lost the ability to.

I was in a group yesterday with another necro and a mage and the XP was lousy at times. This "classic" change will affect the desire of groups to invite pet classes. Where before it was beneficial to have a lot of pets, now you have to limit them if you don't want an XP nerf. Already have a necro or mage? No room for another. The mage who invited me last night didn't know of the XP change, so to him it was beneficial to have a lot of pets. We didn't get good XP until the rare tank came looking for group, as the higher level mobs resisted our nukes too often and we couldn't do the majority of damage.

There's a reason this XP scheme was changed you know. The old scheme (our current scheme) is lousy. Where before I was just upset that pet delay was refused, now I'm upset at this scheme. It nerfs pet class's ability to solo save enchanters, and may nerf their ability to get groups. And no, the answer is not to roll a class that can get groups. The answer is what Verant or Sony did, which is change the XP scheme.

[Daldaen]

I really do not understand the attitude of like it or quit, surely its in everyones best interest to maintain the population server levels for game enrichment.

This doesnt mean bending to everyones will but it does mean fixing problems which do have a big impact on a classess ability to play as was intended to by the original game designers.

Mages cannot hunt on there own without some sort of mechanism to prevent them tanking which they cannot do, all other casters have that mechanism, root, snare, fear etc. We have pets and only pets.

Pet aggro needs to be fixed to prevent an exodus of mages which can group but are often over looked for groups if something better is available.

I think that is a very very reasonable request and I should really get no objection as it doesnt effect class balance imo.

This is a constructive comment and all it would take is a developer to drop a post saying they will look into it and the thread is over, very simple.

Gandulf


Earth pet root? Seriously? That's your answer?

Bahahahahahaha

Yeah, that shit is great when you are lvl 12 and can tank the mob yourself anyway.

Know how long a 50+ mage lasts with an appropriate level mob beating on them?

The answer is not long enough to hope that your pet may actually proc root, which I see happen 1-2 times a fight

They said you do not have means to root. I disagree, you do. The strength of this power wasn't questioned, but to say you cannot root a mob is being misleading.

[Timarian]

No pets do not innately duel wield, you have to equip them with weapons to do so which does hamper the mage chain pet summoning technique, but im only 30 so dont use it yet :)

[Timarian]

Well thats definately being very pedantic Daldaen but you are correct.

We do have the ability but it is not of sufficient power to provide the same abilities afforded to our caster counterparts :)

[MrSparkle001]

No pets do not innately duel wield, you have to equip them with weapons to do so which does hamper the mage chain pet summoning technique, but im only 30 so dont use it yet :)

Is that just a mage thing? I never played a mage to high levels, but I know necro pets used to innately dual wield. I'm not high enough yet to see if they do it here, but they should unless they lost the ability some time in Kunark.

[pickled_heretic]

Is that just a mage thing? I never played a mage to high levels, but I know necro pets used to innately dual wield. I'm not high enough yet to see if they do it here, but they should unless they lost the ability some time in Kunark.

necro pets were definitely able to innately dual wield at higher levels, having to give weapons to emmisary of thule to get him to quad was never classic.

[Timarian]

Not sure TBH when I read the update it just said pets but didnt specify a class so assumed it applied to all. Not sure if someone can clarify?

[Autotune]

only necro pet that dual wields innately is the 56 monk pet

IF any other pet does, the % to do it is so low it never does.

[Daldaen]

April 17th 2011 patch. http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33579&highlight=pets


Kanras: Pets will no longer automatically dual wield at a certain level.

I'm pretty sure pets getting dual wield at a level cap is classic, and it was removed due to the devs feeling pets were overpowered (atleast thats what i recall skin reading). If that is indeed the case, I'd say an unnerfing is in order due to this exping change, making the overpoweredness of chain petting moot due to it not yielding much exp anymore.

[MrSparkle001]

April 17th 2011 patch. http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33579&highlight=pets



I'm pretty sure pets getting dual wield at a level cap is classic, and it was removed due to the devs feeling pets were overpowered (atleast thats what i recall skin reading). If that is indeed the case, I'd say an unnerfing is in order due to this exping change, making the overpoweredness of chain petting moot due to it not yielding much exp anymore.

Yeah I meant when was it changed on live. That's what matters. I don't like seeing that they may have changed it because they think pets are OP. Did they think classic pets were OP?

[inyane]

original eq:
apr 2000 - kunark opens
8 months later...
nov 2000 patch notes: Higher level Magician, Necromancer, and Shadowknight pets now have the ability to dual-wield without being handed weapons.

project 1999:
mar 25 - kunark opens

so, according to the timeline, we should be getting this ability back any day now!

[Autotune]

original eq:
apr 2000 - kunark opens
8 months later...
nov 2000 patch notes: Higher level Magician, Necromancer, and Shadowknight pets now have the ability to dual-wield without being handed weapons.

project 1999:
mar 25 - kunark opens

so, according to the timeline, we should be getting this ability back any day now!

lol should.

You guys forget that this server isn't a classic server. They may do things in the name of "classic" but it is mostly a custom classic server.

They do a good bit of "feeling", much like WoW does when they change classes. They "feel" that the class is OP and then make retarded changes and screw crap up, then "feel" that they can't undo it or they'll be considered wrong so they have to fix the "fix".

[Yajirobe Yajipants]

So, it would seem we don't have a definitive answer as to how the experience is distributed with pets. Have I missed a clear answer? I'm having a bit of trouble trying to out damage my pet without dying. It requires SoW it would seem since I'm going to be handling all the aggro as soon as I land the first nuke.

[MrSparkle001]

original eq:
so, according to the timeline, we should be getting this ability back any day now!

If they want this to be classic and follow the timeline, yes we will.

(I know there was sarcasm in your reply, and in a way my reply is sarcastic too)

[pecete]

I choosed a pet class because I cant give full time on a raid or a group to be a cleric or tank. When wife talks I can stop and resume my gaming after, this is discouragin me from playing, so I will take a break on game till I do have ilusion again on leveling.

[Runeblade]

Also taking a break until I hear a decent explanation of why we can ignore the classic buffs and start the classic nerfs, and why it's classic to nerf xp, change it back, and then nerf it again. Isn't race xp penalty and class xp penalty enough without adding a 50% penalty on top of that!

[Tuffpuppy]

I just find it funny that you see devs posting all over threads that are drama filled, yet strangely theres no one here answering any of these peoples questions/concerns. Custom Classic Everquest ftw.

[pickled_heretic]

I just find it funny that you see devs posting all over threads that are drama filled, yet strangely theres no one here answering any of these peoples questions/concerns. Custom Classic Everquest ftw.

any time someone says something that is obviously dumb, you see nilgob and the krew pounce on it like a piece of meat so they can ridicule someone. but when you raise a genuine, logical, thought-out point your post is usually drowned in the other shit and ignored.

[elementalking]

my question is...

In a group setting if say you have 3 mages, does the group as a whole have to out dps all 3 pets to get full xp? How does that work out?

[Tah]

my question is...

In a group setting if say you have 3 mages, does the group as a whole have to out dps all 3 pets to get full xp? How does that work out?


Don't worry, you'll only have to sacrifice two mages by getting aggro before SOMEBODY gets full XP.

[Autotune]

reclaim pets allow mages to get full xp after?


As for necros, I'd imagine you could charm kill pretty efficiently with FD. I'm not going into what all cycle you'd have to do. I suppose CoS to break a charm would work as well (not to sure tho).


Sometimes you just have to look for a work around. Yes, it may cost more, or make the game more difficult, but shouldn't be a crying matter.

[elementalking]

So if I am in full group with say 2 mage 1 monk 1 cleric 1 chanter 1 war

Does the entire group have to out dps our 2 pets total dmg, or how does that work? Does the group just need to do 51% of dmg like always?

[Autotune]

So if I am in full group with say 2 mage 1 monk 1 cleric 1 chanter 1 war

Does the entire group have to out dps our 2 pets total dmg, or how does that work? Does the group just need to do 51% of dmg like always?

usually if you are in a group, the pet penalty isn't in affect, USUALLY, I don't know if this has changed, but that's the way I remember it working.


Who knows, try it out.

[Trystych]

I was in a group yesterday with another necro and a mage and the XP was lousy at times. This "classic" change will affect the desire of groups to invite pet classes. Where before it was beneficial to have a lot of pets, now you have to limit them if you don't want an XP nerf. Already have a necro or mage? No room for another. The mage who invited me last night didn't know of the XP change, so to him it was beneficial to have a lot of pets. We didn't get good XP until the rare tank came looking for group, as the higher level mobs resisted our nukes too often and we couldn't do the majority of damage.

I always thought on live this was a solo nerf only, if you had 2 mages grouped with similar pets doing 40% of the total damage each plus 20% in nukes, no pet would be eligible to snatch xp from a player.

[Dweed]

Same question as some others here. What happens when you combine 2+ pet classes in 1 group, some claim being in any group removes this restriction? Is this true?

Will the "players" have to deal 51%+ dmg by themselves, or will they only have to out dmg the highest dmg dealing pet? (example: both pets deal 30% individually and players combined do 40%)

Also, what happens when dmg shields are involved? We all know dmg shields are aggro-less dmg. So if you're soloing with a DS and pet, if the DS deals 20% of the hp, would you then only need to deal 41% to out dmg the pet for full exp?
(ds20%+pet39%+player41%)=100% exp?

Thanks for any answers, just trying to get it straight.

[Autotune]

Same question as some others here. What happens when you combine 2+ pet classes in 1 group, some claim being in any group removes this restriction? Is this true?

Will the "players" have to deal 51%+ dmg by themselves, or will they only have to out dmg the highest dmg dealing pet? (example: both pets deal 30% individually and players combined do 40%)

Also, what happens when dmg shields are involved? We all know dmg shields are aggro-less dmg. So if you're soloing with a DS and pet, if the DS deals 20% of the hp, would you then only need to deal 41% to out dmg the pet for full exp?
(ds20%+pet39%+player41%)=100% exp?

Thanks for any answers, just trying to get it straight.

i'm not quite sure, but i think you guys are over thinking this.

[finalgrunt]

In classic, the group had to deal more dmg than my pet to gain full xp. I clearly remember being yelled at because my air pet would sometimes ks my whole group in Dreadlands, resulting in a low xp gain. I had to wait before sending my pet on a mob.

As such, I've got few concerns now, mage being my main class.

- pet dps was much higher than it is right now for normal mobs (not talking about dragons). The hit rating is really bad (it shouldn't miss that much).
- pet aggro was much much better than it is right now. I remember the rule was pretty much for 100 pet melee dmg, I could deal 120 nuke dmg. Also, pet spells was factored in aggro.
- pet taunt was working.
- pet dmg being partly forwarded to the owner, during chaining pet, making chain petting impossible at higher levels. This is my biggest concern.

I've always thought the p1999 implementation was a rather good tradeoff since the xp rule was softer, allowing for faster leveling (the aggro forwarded to the owner is crippling the class though). There were so many mages at one point, that it was not needed to make the class too powerful.

Nowadays, mages are pretty much gone. I think it's time to rebalance stuff a bit like it was in classic.

[MrSparkle001]

In classic, the group had to deal more dmg than my pet to gain full xp. I clearly remember being yelled at because my air pet would sometimes ks my whole group in Dreadlands, resulting in a low xp gain. I had to wait before sending my pet on a mob.

That's been my experience here. In groups with multiple pets we have to outdamage them to not suffer the big XP penalty.

As such, I've got few concerns now, mage being my main class.

- pet dps was much higher than it is right now for normal mobs (not talking about dragons). The hit rating is really bad (it shouldn't miss that much).
- pet aggro was much much better than it is right now. I remember the rule was pretty much for 100 pet melee dmg, I could deal 120 nuke dmg. Also, pet spells was factored in aggro.
- pet taunt was working.
- pet dmg being partly forwarded to the owner, during chaining pet, making chain petting impossible at higher levels. This is my biggest concern.

I've always thought the p1999 implementation was a rather good tradeoff since the xp rule was softer, allowing for faster leveling (the aggro forwarded to the owner is crippling the class though). There were so many mages at one point, that it was not needed to make the class too powerful.

Nowadays, mages are pretty much gone. I think it's time to rebalance stuff a bit like it was in classic.

There hasn't been any official word on any of the issues we've been mentioning, so maybe there's interal dialogue going on about them? Maybe it's being discussed but we won't hear anything until a final decision is made, and hopefully the decision will be to fix the issues and make things truly classic, nerfs buffs and all.

[Timarian]

Fingers Crossed!

[Chokan]

There hasn't been any official word on any of the issues we've been mentioning, so maybe there's interal dialogue going on about them? Maybe it's being discussed but we won't hear anything until a final decision is made.

Updates are nice though.

[Mithaniel Marr]

Anyone know of a classic server? This one is clearly not.

[Palemoon]

Anyone know of a classic server? This one is clearly not.

Sure, but there is a $12.95 a month subscription fee.

[Kassel]

You guys are allowed to post your opinion on this matter, and i am not saying you should stop. I just felt you should be advised that your opinion does not matter.

[Runeblade]

i dunno 10,000 views and 22 pages, i'd be surprised if this doesn't spur some internal debate. it matters to a lot of people.

[emp82]

Does the summoned pet eat 50% of the xp if you do not outdamage it or does the pet eat 75%?

[Timarian]

50%

[abyssalstalker]

I am 80% sure I am quitting after this change.

I do not have the time to find full-time groups and even duoing the pet would eat XP so easily. Not only that, but finding groups is an EXTREMELY painful. Either there's no tank, no cleric or the group wipes and it's not time efficient.

So I've soloed my entire way to 44 and have had a blast doing it. Met people along the way and socialized enough to be satisfied.

Now without bending over backwards to deal 50% more damage to the mob I am gimped half my XP which makes it as inefficient as grouping, even on my own time.

I just got an add while kiting spirocs in TD and dealt with them both like a pro. Obviously an unintentional add and slowing fearing both leaves me with no mana and I have to rely on pet for DPS. I dealt with both well but got gimped on XP.

Met a necro kiting there as well that is also disgusted and rolling a shaman. I dont want to change my class and start over. I like my necro.

The WORST though is that pet taunt is STILL broken. The only way that pet gets aggro is if it deals more damage. What happens if it deals more damage? IT TAKES HALF THE XP. Thanks for the nerf, guys.

I'm disgusted now and think its time to say farewell

[Extunarian]

I am 80% sure I am quitting after this change.


You'll be back. If you leave.

btw - if you are duoing and one pet still does over 50% of the damage...not really sure what to tell you.

[pickled_heretic]

You'll be back. If you leave.

btw - if you are duoing and one pet still does over 50% of the damage...not really sure what to tell you.

i'm almost positive that in a group situation one of the pets merely need to outdamage your group for him to leech exp. i know that when i haste and equip a charmed pet with daggers my exp tanks in groups.

unless the MDPS is really solid, i usually don't even charm anymore because i'm literally robbing my group of experience. it's really kind of a dumb way to balance things. a more direct approach to nerfing pets is probably more appropriate, such as decreasing attack tables.

[mala]

You'll be back.

even if he does come back.... what is the point of the dev's screwing with a mechanic that completely gimps a class? if they want it to be classic XP... sure im all for classic, but with how everything works right now a mage soloing a mob and doing over half the damage is NOT doable. If they are going to change one element of how pets work they need to change everything else as well. Right now we are just being forced into a broken system in the name of "classic".

And "just use an earth pet" is not an answer. This has nothing to do with learning to play differently, there should be NO reason to even use the earth pet if pet agro worked correctly. Being forced to use an earth pet (which doesnt remedy this problem) because the dev's want to change base mechanics of XP is NOT classic in anyones eyes.

[Doogal]

I am 80% sure I am quitting after this change.



Unfortunetly I'm with abyssalstalker, with pet agroe the way it is I can barely do 50% more damage without getting agroe nearly all the time. For mages it's pretty hard with no root(pet root breaks too easily) or fear or anything to keep us not getting hit like necro's can do. Nearly everytime I nuke something I get aggroe. It does make Mages not viable to solo level really, this doesnt affect mages who already lvl 60 who breezed through it without their pet's leeching exp. They get to reap the benefits of still having the super boss pet and not needing exp anymore. I know this is a game meant for groups, but it was meant for soloing as well. I don't really have the time for groups most of the time with working full time. I can usually only play for an hour a day mostly. I feel bad for groups when I can only stay for like 30 minutes since half the time I can't find a group immediately. It's not that Mages can't deal with it, it's just disheartening and makes me not want to play my mage at all.

Oh well, it's the devs choice on the matter. They see this change was necessary.

Definitely retiring my mage for now though and if it never gets fixed probably will just transfer his gear and make a necro instead.

[burkemi5]

I am 80% sure I am quitting after this change.

I do not have the time to find full-time groups and even duoing the pet would eat XP so easily. Not only that, but finding groups is an EXTREMELY painful. Either there's no tank, no cleric or the group wipes and it's not time efficient.

So I've soloed my entire way to 44 and have had a blast doing it. Met people along the way and socialized enough to be satisfied.

Now without bending over backwards to deal 50% more damage to the mob I am gimped half my XP which makes it as inefficient as grouping, even on my own time.

I just got an add while kiting spirocs in TD and dealt with them both like a pro. Obviously an unintentional add and slowing fearing both leaves me with no mana and I have to rely on pet for DPS. I dealt with both well but got gimped on XP.

I'm disgusted now and think its time to say farewell

agreed with this post. cya on live.

[abyssalstalker]

I should mention that Necros got the easy end of the nerf. At least they can fear and snare the mob away and do 50% damage in a safe way. However, its inconvenient, mana inefficient and just not fun to worry about pet taking XP. I don't want to always have the feeling of worry that I may get half XP when soloing. I play a game to have fun and relax, period.

Enchanters with charm pets are COMPLETELY destroyed. Not even worth it anymore.

Mages have 0 utility like necros and one nuke with broken pet aggro is GG for them pretty much.

I really feel for those 2 the worst. They don't even have the option to work around it.

[MrSparkle001]

I should mention that Necros got the easy end of the nerf. At least they can fear and snare the mob away and do 50% damage in a safe way. However, its inconvenient, mana inefficient and just not fun to worry about pet taking XP. I don't want to always have the feeling of worry that I may get half XP when soloing. I play a game to have fun and relax, period.

Enchanters with charm pets are COMPLETELY destroyed. Not even worth it anymore.

Mages have 0 utility like necros and one nuke with broken pet aggro is GG for them pretty much.

I really feel for those 2 the worst. They don't even have the option to work around it.

Yes my necro so far can solo fine. It's a little mana inefficient but I have the tools to do it.

But like I've been saying, this is one of those retarted classic mechanics the devs did right in fixing during Luclin. It's the same with class/race XP nerfs. They are both retarted systems from a time when MMORPGs were really experiments in what to do and what not to do, and it turns out XP penalties are what not to do.

I think class/race XP nerfs were eliminated sometime in Velious and pet XP sometime in Luclin, which means we will see one eliminated but not the other. That sucks because both are equally retarted and equally deserving of being eliminated, which they were, but won't be here unfortunately.

[Seaweedpimp]

only necro pet that dual wields innately is the 56 monk pet

IF any other pet does, the % to do it is so low it never does.

Not true. Emmisary of thule also dual weilds innately.

[Rockafella]

I soloed ~10 hours on my lvl 55 necro post nerf. Tried solo as before or outdps my pet, efficiency was reduced about the same (50% xp penalty versus triple down time). Noticed my xp bar moved only 12% after 10 hours, which means I need over 80 hours to ding level 56. This is kinda overwhelming to me, especially after 10 hours work a day. See, I dont get food stamps from goverment so I don't have that much spare time. This XP nerf were eliminated sometime in Luclin, which means it will never happen here.

Recent discussion brought by Guineapig about custom content and Rogean's confirmation in another thread (no Luc. but will introduce some custom contents after Vel) made me feel this is only a customed "classic" server. I think I will go live progression to start over again. At least I am sure they will progress it classically and 12.95/month is not a problem to me (might be a problem for a lot ppls playing here? dunno). Whenever I feel tired of Vel after farming the same thing for a year, I will get Luc/POP instead of customed weird contents.

Think I may come back later. Hope the server gets better. Good luck guys.

[Balamar]

Why do this? The mages gives up a lot of utility to cast that pet. Why should the player be nerfed if all he wants to do is stand back and drain his mana on healing his pet instead of doing damage?

Should a cleric not get experience if he groups up with a warrior to kill a mob by only healing him and not casting on the mob?

[yraapt]

I am not sure the change from classic pet exp was ever mentioned in the patch notes, but you can look here (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches.html). There is a page (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=960) on Alla's talking about the change. This was originally posted by a dev sometime before June 2002, but the forum post is long gone.

"In the old scheme, if a pet did more than half of the damage to a monster, it took half the experience reward. In the new scheme, pets take zero experience unless no player does damage."

Personally I'd rather the 'new scheme' where 1 damage = full exp, but whatever it's a free server.

[abyssalstalker]

"it's classic" or "working as intended" just doesnt cut it when you start bringing in custom content.

The talk of custom content from PoP and Luclin is exciting as I loved those expansions, albeit it had its problems (destroying wizards and druids for utility with their ports.) This is a great idea and will make things a lot of fun, exciting and even fresh.

Albeit, adding this "classic" change that completely destroys three classes is just meaningless at this point in the game and causes misery. Why not bring in luclin and PoP because it ruins the game for some classes, yet make this change? Where is the fairness?

[Runeblade]

Also decided I'm done here, this isn't classic, this is just a custom server where it's been decided to nerf the heck out of pet classes

[Nihilist_santa]

No one responded when I mentioned the fact that the xp penalties concerning pets and hybrids were a way of making you play longer in effect ensuring that your MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION FEES would continue to come in for a longer period of time. The removal of these penalties which resulted in longer time to achieve end game level to me was in response to the fact that Sony began to experience competition.

I mean look at the timelines and you can tell this is obvious. This is not a balance issue.....This was a business move by Sony....You know Sony the guys with the SW:G debacle and other such fuck ups. The fact that this is an issue here is pretty much moot considering there is no subscription service.

You guys can dress it up as a balance issue all you want but you should stop and analyze why the sony devs decided to go this route and i guarantee it was not in response to the EQ boards where people were constantly QQing about X class is more powerful than Y class. It did not have to do with "There are not enough clerics!" or "There are not enough people playing warriors, they are all playing the easy solo classes so my group cant find a tank" because with the sheer number of servers and server pops you could not convince me that there was a severe lack of any class being represented.

[Nihilist_santa]

I would also like to add that if this were a balance issue I would be absolutely fine with it but this is a nerf to induviduals. It is not like pets are so overpowered people are zerging raid mobs with skels and elementals...

[abyssalstalker]

No one responded when I mentioned the fact that the xp penalties concerning pets and hybrids were a way of making you play longer in effect ensuring that your MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION FEES would continue to come in for a longer period of time. The removal of these penalties which resulted in longer time to achieve end game level to me was in response to the fact that Sony began to experience competition.

I mean look at the timelines and you can tell this is obvious. This is not a balance issue.....This was a business move by Sony....You know Sony the guys with the SW:G debacle and other such fuck ups. The fact that this is an issue here is pretty much moot considering there is no subscription service.

You guys can dress it up as a balance issue all you want but you should stop and analyze why the sony devs decided to go this route and i guarantee it was not in response to the EQ boards where people were constantly QQing about X class is more powerful than Y class. It did not have to do with "There are not enough clerics!" or "There are not enough people playing warriors, they are all playing the easy solo classes so my group cant find a tank" because with the sheer number of servers and server pops you could not convince me that there was a severe lack of any class being represented.

QFT

[Nihilist_santa]

QFT

Wow who can argue with such a well reasoned response :rolleyes:

[abyssalstalker]

Well, your side addresses the reason for the change which I totally agree with.

My side addresses that they dont need to make everything "classic" and its clear that they have no intentions (plans on custom content as to not nerf druids / wizards.)

[Trackflare]

So in the big scheme of things
I, as a mage, can drop my lvl 1 nuke for a more beneficial spell, not have to worry about doing any damage whatsoever, or more so having to worry about if i remember to cast a nuke, and get an extra 25% more exp than before and let the pet do all the work and just cast the occasional heal and kill twice as many mobs
doesnt seem that bad to me
To the same degree, welcome back afk camping?

[mala]

So in the big scheme of things
I, as a mage, can drop my lvl 1 nuke for a more beneficial spell, not have to worry about doing any damage whatsoever, or more so having to worry about if i remember to cast a nuke, and get an extra 25% more exp than before and let the pet do all the work and just cast the occasional heal and kill twice as many mobs
doesnt seem that bad to me
To the same degree, welcome back afk camping?

There is no reason you should have been forgetting to deal 1 damage, this statement is either trolling or written by the worst player ever (ill go with trolling). This change is AWFUL, it effectively halves the efficiency of a mage. Im not sure of the effects on other classes as i dont have experience with them, but im sure its a factor for them as well. Mages are meant to be fast soloers, i understand if they were wanting to nerf that, but by 50%?! The rule may be classic, but if the rest of the pet mechanics arent working properly, classic is kind of out the window.

[MrSparkle001]

I think what he's saying is you can do nothing now and make more XP than before, but to make full XP you have to do way more.

AFK camping is back.

[EverquestJunkie]

It is not like pets are so overpowered people are zerging raid mobs with skels and elementals...

Acually if i recall right that was happening and yes pets are OP but i aggree the devs need to fix the goddanm taunt for pets come on now..

[Tuffpuppy]

Have not logged in since the day after nerf. Still sad to see no replies by devs. Bye p1999

[Autotune]

Not true. Emmisary of thule also dual weilds innately.

HAVEN'T SEEN IT!

[raptorak]

Apparently, according to the Wiki game mechanics and my experience in game where fighting with the pet seemed more than 50%, the nerf is actually still 75% less exp if you do under 50% damage.

So basically the rule changed from having to do 1 damage to having to do over 50% to get full exp, otherwise you get 25%.

Really I started this thread wishing for some verification as to how the mechanic is working (to help find a way around it), so it would be good if we had some official word on it at some point.

[yraapt]

Classic would be 50% if you do no damage.

Interesting, as others have mentioned, this boosts afk exping I had thought afk exping was against the rules, but I guess it is just "frowned upon"?

[yraapt]

I should probably mention that I am not suggesting mages go out and afk exp. I am just pointing out that they have given a boost to those who would do such a thing.

[Mithaniel Marr]

I will not be playing till this gets fixed.

[burkemi5]

we all agree that this is supposed to be a classic server. what seems to be frustrating people is how what is changed to classic is picked and chosen arbitrarily. in this case, pet soloing is completely nerfed without fixing the other issues with pets first (taunt, pet attack range, etc). the post in the previous page about a necro soloing at level 55 for 10 hours and only getting 12% xp (something like that) is extremely alarming. I unfortunately doubt this will be fixed, and I do not have the time to solo for 80 hours to get one level in the mid to high 50s. i really like this server and what it stands for, and i hope that this nerf does not ruin the population.

[abyssalstalker]

we all agree that this is supposed to be a classic server. what seems to be frustrating people is how what is changed to classic is picked and chosen arbitrarily. in this case, pet soloing is completely nerfed without fixing the other issues with pets first (taunt, pet attack range, etc). the post in the previous page about a necro soloing at level 55 for 10 hours and only getting 12% xp (something like that) is extremely alarming. I unfortunately doubt this will be fixed, and I do not have the time to solo for 80 hours to get one level in the mid to high 50s. i really like this server and what it stands for, and i hope that this nerf does not ruin the population.

This is all true, yes. What further aggravates me is that they are also hand picking features of Luclin and PoP as to not nerf other classes. No Plane of Knowledge means that Druids and Wizards are still useful to people. Not only is that not classic, but they are one-siding things. (I actually agree with that decision, just stating that pet classes are being unjustly nerfed here.)

[Palemoon]

Classic would be 50% if you do no damage.

Interesting, as others have mentioned, this boosts afk exping I had thought afk exping was against the rules, but I guess it is just "frowned upon"?

Should be cause for account deletion.

[burkemi5]

This is all true, yes. What further aggravates me is that they are also hand picking features of Luclin and PoP as to not nerf other classes. No Plane of Knowledge means that Druids and Wizards are still useful to people. Not only is that not classic, but they are one-siding things. (I actually agree with that decision, just stating that pet classes are being unjustly nerfed here.)

correct me if i'm wrong, but the devs haven't explicitly stated that they are going to implement the custom PoP / Luclin content. also, if it were to occur, it would be after Velious, which is years away.

[abyssalstalker]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11879

Pretty sure they are serious. It may be awhile away but its still planned.

[Felwithemagi]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11879

Pretty sure they are serious. It may be awhile away but its still planned.


That thread is a discussion or wish list -- speculation at best. It is a great discussion on lore and ideas about extending the Norrath travel system, but there is no indication any of it is planned.