UFOs in Rennaissance paintings

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4407/medievalfresno.gif

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8093/medievaltapestry.gif

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5676/renaissancepainting.gif

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8264/madonnastgiovanninopala.jpg

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9194/ufomoses.jpg

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7160/ufojesus.jpg

[SearyxTZ]

Hi Lumi

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

This isn't Lumi and I'm not a UFO person, I just thought it was interesting they put them in pictures for some unknown reason.

[Biffins]

.

[dcapotos]

So was Jesus an alien or a zombie? Or a zombie of an alien?

[Seaweedpimp]

.

lmao that dude's awesome

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

So was Jesus an alien or a zombie? Or a zombie of an alien?

I could care less about religion, I just wanna know why there's UFOs in old ass paintings!

The only thing comparative I know of, is the Hindu dudes talking about their 8 armed gods flying around in the sky and battling each other. The stuff in these pictures aren't "divine" origin though, they're metal ships.

Non-divine, sky phenomenon didn't become popularized until the 20th century, I'm pretty sure. I know there's some old, native American groups that claim we came from "star people" or some crap, but even they don't talk about people flying around in metal ships in the sky.

[SearyxTZ]

I dunno I see blobs of tiny paint, not "metal".



That being said, it's not like I'd discount the possibility of UFOs and/or alien life. It's fairly plausible compared to some of the other shit people buy into (OMGOMG BUILD FALLOUT SHELTERS FOR 2012 JUDGEMENT DAY)

[guineapig]

I've always been kind of fascinated about the Nuremberg event back in 1561:

http://arcturi.com/sitebuilder/images/11-270x270.jpg


The main reason is because, unlike those paintings that have nothing to do with UFO's supposedly featuring them, in this woodcut the artist is actually attempting to show what hundreds of people witnessed.

(And yes, it looks like a really bad acid trip, but if mass ergot poisoning is the only explanation detractors can give then I ask you how a drug/poison can give the same exact delusion to countless people all over a city.)

[Eldaran]

i love to think about this stuff. really crazy to think about something so technologically advanced for our time period to be included so long ago in paintings.

[Biffins]

The stuff in these pictures aren't "divine" origin though, they're metal ships.


Trying to analyze/explain something from 500 years ago with a relatively new idea, like the modern UFO, is generally going to be a fail. Don't look at it through the lens of someone of the 21st century. Think about why the artist might have painted it, and how his audience might have looked at it. Answer: most likely a depiction of the sun/moon and done so with a mixture of old pagan and new Christian ideas. Or aliens.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9224/frlhu.jpg

[burkemi5]

cool pic Nuke. really cool to imagine the universe in terms of that picture. going by sheer size alone, it is ridiculous to think we are alone.


http://i.imgur.com/SueV8.jpg

[Mardur]

I've always been kind of fascinated about the Nuremberg event back in 1561:

http://arcturi.com/sitebuilder/images/11-270x270.jpg


The main reason is because, unlike those paintings that have nothing to do with UFO's supposedly featuring them, in this woodcut the artist is actually attempting to show what hundreds of people witnessed.

(And yes, it looks like a really bad acid trip, but if mass ergot poisoning is the only explanation detractors can give then I ask you how a drug/poison can give the same exact delusion to countless people all over a city.)

A sun dog or sundog (scientific name parhelion, plural parhelia, from Greek parēlion (παρήλιον) from παρά (beside) + ἥλιος (sun), "beside the sun"; also called a mock sun or a phantom sun) is an atmospheric phenomenon that creates bright spots of light in the sky, often on a luminous ring or halo on either side of the sun. Sundogs may appear as a colored patch of light to the left or right of the sun, 22° distant and at the same distance above the horizon as the sun, and in ice halos. They can be seen anywhere in the world during any season, but they are not always obvious or bright. Sundogs are best seen and are most conspicuous when the sun is low. Sun dogs might explain a remarkable phenomenon observed in Germany: on April 4, 1561, the skies over Nuremberg, Germany were filled with a multitude of celestial objects that were observed by many people in the city.

Also I find it funny that Wehrmacht's image contradicts itself: claiming that VV Cephei and VY Canis Majoris are both the largest known star (panels 17 and 19). They're very close and it's difficult to get an accurate measurement (VY Canis Majoris is generally considered larger, once thought to be larger than physically possible but has been "sized down"), so no big deal. But kinda lulz.

[Autotune]

our UFO's will blot out the Sun!

[muttonchops]

Interesting posts. Love this kind of stuff. Just read Sagan's Billions and Billions = hard to fathom. Then people get into other dimensions and...mind = fubar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

[MrSparkle001]

Trying to analyze/explain something from 500 years ago with a relatively new idea, like the modern UFO, is generally going to be a fail. Don't look at it through the lens of someone of the 21st century. Think about why the artist might have painted it, and how his audience might have looked at it. Answer: most likely a depiction of the sun/moon and done so with a mixture of old pagan and new Christian ideas. Or aliens.

I don't know, depicting the moon via painting it as if it's a flying vessel with someone inside it?

How about the Nazca lines? How are they explained? They're not visible from the ground, and in fact I don't think were discovered until someone flew over them in the early 20th century.

I'm not saying "I don't know, therefore aliens" but I am saying there's more to it than simply odd depictions of stellar bodies, at least in some of the cases. UFOs may not be a new idea. I mean, there's accounts of what might be interpreted as UFO activity in various religions including christianity.

It's just enough to keep you wondering.

[Seaweedpimp]

Dont you assholes watch ancient aliens?!


Get EDUCATED!

[Seaweedpimp]

Who built the pyrimids






ALIENS

[Seaweedpimp]

young professor slippery here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgJ7-R4Zpbk

[Tommy_Wiseau]

this show makes me rage endlessly

[Biffins]

I don't know, depicting the moon via painting it as if it's a flying vessel with someone inside it?



Yeah but you're still interpreting it as someone from 2011 though. Why would the artist paint people inside flying machines? Flying machines were not exactly a widespread idea until very recently, so what purpose would that serve to paint it, especially in a church? It's like the ancient aliens guy seeing a flower carving in an Egyptian tomb and interpreting it as a lightbulb.

Older pagan religions had deities for everything, and those things were depicted in human form. Obviously Christians didn't see it that way, but part of Christianity's success was that they didn't just throw out old beliefs. They incorporated them but gave them new names and direction. Ex. that ritual you do in the spring time to celebrate a season of renewal and rebirth, and to promote the upcoming harvest? Yeah keep doing that, but also throw in the part about this other guy who was resurrected in the spring, and come do it at the church also. Sup followers of Mithras, one of the largest religions in Rome. What a coincidence, your dude was born at the end of December too? He died for your sins too? You have eucharist-like ritual as well? Fuck yeah, come on over.

tl;dr: pagan personification combined with Christian imagery, or aliens. You decide.

[Piff]

feelin' so tinfoil in here.

[MrSparkle001]

Yeah but you're still interpreting it as someone from 2011 though. Why would the artist paint people inside flying machines? Flying machines were not exactly a widespread idea until very recently, so what purpose would that serve to paint it, especially in a church? It's like the ancient aliens guy seeing a flower carving in an Egyptian tomb and interpreting it as a lightbulb.

Well I'd say you're interpreting it as if it's impossible that people long ago saw aliens or flying craft. You're jumping to a conclusion and basing your interpretation on that.

I'm not saying yes and I'm not saying no. I'm more interested in the Nazca lines than this art. I do know I do not say "aliens do not exist, therefore all this stuff must mean something else". We don't know what it means. We can't say what the creators meant. Nuremburg 1561, can we just dismiss it as mass poisoning or something? Reports from our astronauts and airline pilots, can we dismiss them as hallucinations? I'm not talking Roswell conspiracies, I'm talking reports of unidentified craft, some of which might be military but are all of them military?

I keep an open mind about it. Some stuff is too weird, like the Nazca lines. Other stuff can be explained, like military aircraft or just hoaxes.

[Tommy_Wiseau]

It's like the ancient aliens guy seeing a flower carving in an Egyptian tomb and interpreting it as a lightbulb.


You're jumping to a conclusion and basing your interpretation on that.

Second guy - you're accusing first guy of what ancient aliens does. You shouldn't work to debunk your own methodology! First guy is exactly right.

In the intro to the video posted at end of last page, the narrator speculates about how aliens could have provided ancient people with technology. Then he asks "what if we could find...THE EVIDENCE?"

That's not a predictive hypothesis. You don't form your conclusion first and then search backward for vague evidence - that isn't valid science or logic. It's just a tinfoil hat TV show, but the methodology is so flawed that I can't find get any enjoyment out of it (especially when I realize there are people, like quoted, who lap this shit up like it's a thrilling scientific hypothesis).

[Naez 4.20]

I think it's pretty obvious that aliens exist and deniers are lemmings following their oil financed leaders over the cliff.

[MrSparkle001]

Second guy - you're accusing first guy of what ancient aliens does. You shouldn't work to debunk your own methodology! First guy is exactly right.

In the intro to the video posted at end of last page, the narrator speculates about how aliens could have provided ancient people with technology. Then he asks "what if we could find...THE EVIDENCE?"

That's not a predictive hypothesis. You don't form your conclusion first and then search backward for vague evidence - that isn't valid science or logic. It's just a tinfoil hat TV show, but the methodology is so flawed that I can't find get any enjoyment out of it (especially when I realize there are people, like quoted, who lap this shit up like it's a thrilling scientific hypothesis).

I've never seen this show and I don't have the time/desire to watch whatever video was posted. Sorry.

Biffins formed the conclusion, that aliens don't exist therefore these strange things must have other explanations. Spaceships in paintings can't be spaceships because they don't exist. Isn't that the conclusion? He said flying machines weren't a widespread idea of ancient people, but that's only true if aliens do not exist, right? You see what I'm saying? What if there were sightings? Do we know there weren't any? What about Nuremburg? Big hoax? Mass hallucination of many people of the same thing?

I'm not saying yay or nay. I'm saying I keep the possiblity open, because we don't know. We can't read the dead artists' minds. We weren't there in Nuremburg. I haven't formed a conclusion because there's none to form. I won't say "no such thing, and the ancient depictions are falsely interpreted" or "yes they exist, and the ancient depictions are part of the proof".

Again, I ask about the Nazca lines. Does nobody here know what they are? They're a little less easy to explain than paintings considering they were discovered less than 100 years ago. They can only be seen from the sky.

It could be my Trekkie side talking here. I don't think the pyramids were built by aliens or anything, but I do think there's a possibility there were ancient sightings. Nobody knows for sure.

I once heard a theory that humans are the result of a cross between aliens and earth primates, like we're either a genetic experiment or some attempt at populating the planet with a higher intelligence than the existing primates. There's all sorts of weird theories out there (hollow earth anyone?).

[Biffins]

Biffins formed the conclusion, that aliens don't exist therefore these strange things must have other explanations. Spaceships in paintings can't be spaceships because they don't exist.

My conclusion was not that aliens and spaceships don't exist. But there's no evidence in this thread which shows that they do, unless we are operating on the assumption that art is to be taken literally and contains no iconography - and that we disregard the time period in which it was painted and the way in which certain ideas were commonly expressed by artists of the day.

[jarshale]

You people who don't believe we're controlled by aliens are just brainwashed by the NWO illuminati skull and bones freemason zionist liberal agenda. Sheeple.

[Naez 4.20]

finally someone who knows what they're talking about

[MrSparkle001]

My conclusion was not that aliens and spaceships don't exist. But there's no evidence in this thread which shows that they do, unless we are operating on the assumption that art is to be taken literally and contains no iconography - and that we disregard the time period in which it was painted and the way in which certain ideas were commonly expressed by artists of the day.

It just seems a bit odd to explain some of the more obvious references in art as iconography. It's no less odd than explaining them as UFOs (because why would they add them like that) but I don't dismiss either explanation.

I like to take the larger body of references as a whole, from the various hindu references to the biblical references to the strange paintings and even stranger ancient cave paintings, and the strangest of all, the Nazca lines. All of them together are enough to keep me questioning, and my Trekkie side has every reason to keep hope alive :)

[Goobles]

I've always been kind of fascinated about the Nuremberg event back in 1561:

http://arcturi.com/sitebuilder/images/11-270x270.jpg


The main reason is because, unlike those paintings that have nothing to do with UFO's supposedly featuring them, in this woodcut the artist is actually attempting to show what hundreds of people witnessed.

(And yes, it looks like a really bad acid trip, but if mass ergot poisoning is the only explanation detractors can give then I ask you how a drug/poison can give the same exact delusion to countless people all over a city.)


One word:

Mushrooms.

[Torin_Stormchaser]

I believe in aliens. Do I believe they come to earth? I have no basis for belief that there is an advanced civilization capable of doing so. I believe in UFOs. I believe in USOs. I don't know if any of the UFO or USO anyone might see is terrestrial or extraterrestrial. But I do like this thread. UFOs in art, pretty cool, even if through explanation people try to identify them. I like the mystery of it all

[guineapig]

One word:

Mushrooms.

I already said ergot... much more likely than everyone eating the same batch of shrooms.