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Montreal
04-06-2010, 01:15 PM
I know this wil probably trigger a shitstorm, but I'm gonna give it a shot.

I played back in the day on the Brell Serilis server. Now I know I'm obviously biased towards my old server, like most people are, but anyone who played on Brell always praised it's community. The raid calendar was always a big part of that, even if it triggered continious debates, mostly involving the top guilds of the server ( Silent Redemption and Watchers ).

Link to the old Brell Serilis message boards
http://web.archive.org/web/20010602032007/http://pub13.ezboard.com/bbrellserilis

So basicly the Brell serilis community used a raid calendar system for the planes, and a rotation system for Targets such as Trakanon, Nagafen, Vox etc. Now while the raid calendar wasn't contested by anyone, it's the rotation system that heated most of the debates. I was myself againt rotation. On the other hand the raid calendar system held the community together, and didn't have to be enforced by the GMs.

Here is an exemple of the rules to reserve a plane :

RULES FOR FEAR RESERVATION
When posting, post the time, date and guild(if applicable) as the name of the topic. This makes the moderators job easier.

I. You cannot post more then 2 weeks ahead of the start of the raid. Post will be deleted if it breaks the rule. Board time will be used to determine this.

II. Do not reserve Fear again before your first raid is over. The second post of 2 will be deleted.

III. Non raid specific or inappropriate posts in the raid forums will be deleted. Only post intended raids, there is a Raids: Discussion forum for any questions, comments or concerns.

IV. Old posts will be deleted the next day. If a raid was posted for the 8th then the post for that raid will be deleted sometime on the 9th.

V. Do not post multiple times for the same date. If more than one person from a guild posts a reservation for a date, only the earlier one will be accepted. If a person posts multiple times for the same date, all posts beyond the first will be deleted.

VI. Do not post simultaneous reservations for both Hate & Fear on the same day. If you post to both planes, only the earlier reservation will be accepted, and all subsequent posts will be deleted. If you post for one plane, and lose out, you may then try & get the other plane. A post for both planes less than 1 minute from each other will be considered simultaneous.

VII. If you are waiting on a roll off for a date, you MAY post for another date. However, if you get that later date, your forfiet your chance to roll on the earlier date. Ie: Guild A ties with Guild B for Saturday. Guild A signs up for Sunday, and gets it. Guild B then gets Saturday, and guild A gets Sunday.

Be considerate, don't continually claim fear on weekends. Although this isn't really a RULE, its considered bad form by most of us to hog fear every sunday for three weeks since weekends are the "prime raid days," particularly for smaller guilds and independents. I do understand that some of you cannot attend raids any other days, but please, give others a chance too.


Would a raid calendar correct the issues between the top guilds on this server? No. It benefitted small guilds that wanted members and friends to get their planar armor. Most of the time, Guild leaders of Silent redemption and Watchers would contact the raid leader to see if they intended to kill CT or Innorrruk , and asked to be noticed when the raid was done to take a shot at it.

Discuss...

magic
04-06-2010, 01:20 PM
tl;dr

Grento
04-06-2010, 01:23 PM
Raid calendars work well when people want to follow them, the problem arises when you have multiple guilds that don't want to respect it. Unfortunately there isn't much you can do in that situation, the rest of the server can decide to shun them but it usually won't make much of a difference.

Montreal
04-06-2010, 01:27 PM
Honestly, does IB really care if some small guild is killing trash in hate? I can understand they want CT and Draco, but Trash???

Ferok
04-06-2010, 01:30 PM
Lanys used a calendar as well, but it was mostly for the intermediate guilds to schedule plane clearing and other uncontested stuff. The top guilds were never subject to it because they only cared about the contested stuff, and that stuff was never around long enough to schedule.

Grento
04-06-2010, 01:30 PM
I have no clue what people want to kill. I was just saying that for it to work, most of the server has to support it. I like community calendars though.

Uaellaen
04-06-2010, 01:47 PM
dont like the calendar idea ... so i have to plan out the next 2 weeks of my life arround this game to get a spot in the Planes for a raid? no thanks ..

YendorLootmonkey
04-06-2010, 01:52 PM
dont like the calendar idea ... so i have to plan out the next 2 weeks of my life arround this game to get a spot in the Planes for a raid? no thanks ..


Hey, just like the up-and-coming guilds are expected to perma-camp trackers 24/7 in zones and get texts to log on and disrupt their lives to have a shot at getting something before IB/Divinity/Remedy gather up their raid force at the target.

Not so much fun when the shoe is on the other foot, is it? ;)

Montreal
04-06-2010, 01:59 PM
dont like the calendar idea ... so i have to plan out the next 2 weeks of my life arround this game to get a spot in the Planes for a raid? no thanks ..

RULES FOR FEAR RESERVATION
When posting, post the time, date and guild(if applicable) as the name of the topic. This makes the moderators job easier.

I. You cannot post more then 2 weeks ahead of the start of the raid. Post will be deleted if it breaks the rule. Board time will be used to determine this.

First, this server has a small population, in different timezones. It worked for Brell with 1-2k players online, it will easely work here. Do you really think the Raid calendar will be filled up all the time? It wasn't on Brell ! Mondays were notorious for being free for all, cause no one had reserved anything.

Brell was one thing, this server is another. We can make our own rules and eratas ( excluding CT - Innoruuk from the calendar ).

Finnaly, this would give more opportunities for everyone to raid has it helps the community to achieve things together. Guild raids are fine, but pick up raids and independant raids gives you an opportunity to achieve something without having to wear a guild tag and everything it represents.

TheDudeAbides
04-06-2010, 02:09 PM
The behavior over 10 years old content on an emu server has moved into "They need to go see someone" weirdness

I could understand if they were breaking new ground, but this is 10 year old ass nostalgia. Waking people up at 5 AM to take down a 10 year old dragon, or tracking this old ass shit with afk druids 24/7 is in the realm of mental illness

Grento
04-06-2010, 02:15 PM
The behavior over 10 years old content on an emu server has moved into "They need to go see someone" weirdness

I could understand if they were breaking new ground, but this is 10 year old ass nostalgia. Waking people up at 5 AM to take down a 10 year old dragon, or tracking this old ass shit with afk druids 24/7 is in the realm of mental illness

Just like the people that spend tons of cash on lawn gnomes and baseball memorabilia, I don't understand them and I don't expect them to understand me. To each their own ;)

TheDudeAbides
04-06-2010, 02:18 PM
Just like the people that spend tons of cash on lawn gnomes and baseball memorabilia, I don't understand them and I don't expect them to understand me. To each their own ;)

There is a significant difference in your example though

Finawin
04-06-2010, 02:20 PM
The behavior over 10 years old content on an emu server has moved into "They need to go see someone" weirdness

I could understand if they were breaking new ground, but this is 10 year old ass nostalgia. Waking people up at 5 AM to take down a 10 year old dragon, or tracking this old ass shit with afk druids 24/7 is in the realm of mental illness

You are quickly proving that you're a whiny butthurt baby with ever increasing speed and accuracy.

You're touting yourself to be above this stuff, while crying equally as hard about not being able to down said targets.

TheDudeAbides
04-06-2010, 02:31 PM
You are quickly proving that you're a whiny butthurt baby with ever increasing speed and accuracy.

You're touting yourself to be above this stuff, while crying equally as hard about not being able to down said targets.

Above what? Being insane over 10 year old content?

Yea I'm above that. You got me good bro.

Finawin
04-06-2010, 02:43 PM
You're above it, right?

Then stop fucking crying about people better than you winning over your lack of dedication and desire to kill "10 year old content".

Grento
04-06-2010, 02:45 PM
There is a significant difference in your example though

Why? Because one is physical property? If you want to argue about the value and significance of physical property VS memories and nostalgia then feel free to PM me as that is quite off topic.

My point was simply that the definition of what is crazy changes for everyone, what you personally find crazy is quite insignificant at the end of the day.

Uaellaen
04-06-2010, 03:27 PM
Hey, just like the up-and-coming guilds are expected to perma-camp trackers 24/7 in zones and get texts to log on and disrupt their lives to have a shot at getting something before IB/Divinity/Remedy gather up their raid force at the target.

Not so much fun when the shoe is on the other foot, is it?


lol? we dont perma camp anything, we dont text or call anyone when any named is up, we dont camp trackers in any zone .. we simply dont care! we raid the zones we want to raid, if a named is up, hes up .. if not .. hes not ..

who knows, maybe some day we might even camp a raid named ... or send a druid arround to track some zones and see if things are up ... but we wont ever do anything 24 / 7 ...

i realy dont like that Remedy is pulled into this BS in every freaking post ... just keep us out of this "elite" bs ... thanks

Uaellaen
04-06-2010, 03:29 PM
RULES FOR FEAR RESERVATION
I. You cannot post more then 2 weeks ahead of the start of the raid. Post will be deleted if it breaks the rule. Board time will be used to determine this.


wow you can read .. cudos ... so what you think will happen? every guild will fill out the calendar for 2 weeks, just to get as many spots as they can ... so unless you do the same, you will prolly get 1 ~2 targets every 2 weeks ...

jettoki
04-06-2010, 03:40 PM
Um, can we stay on topic instead of devolving into a flame war?

For my part, I think the calendar is a great idea. I remember how pleasant a server Brell was back in 1999/2000 - many of my friends migrated there from Veeshan.

YendorLootmonkey
04-06-2010, 03:47 PM
lol? we dont perma camp anything, we dont text or call anyone when any named is up, we dont camp trackers in any zone .. we simply dont care! we raid the zones we want to raid, if a named is up, hes up .. if not .. hes not ..

who knows, maybe some day we might even camp a raid named ... or send a druid arround to track some zones and see if things are up ... but we wont ever do anything 24 / 7 ...

i realy dont like that Remedy is pulled into this BS in every freaking post ... just keep us out of this "elite" bs ... thanks

I apologize for making assumptions, I'm sorry. :(

Uaellaen
04-06-2010, 03:55 PM
ahh dont worry, i just dont want remedy to be draged into these " elite wars", we are trying our best to stay out of this ;)

Tallenn
04-06-2010, 04:20 PM
Community run calendars can only work when essentially ALL raid capable guilds agree to abide by them. When one doesn't, you have to address the issue of what happens when your raid gets jacked by one of the guilds that don't follow the calendar? Not only do all guilds have to agree, but they have to continue to agree to something that has essentially no way to enforce that agreement.

We tried one on Luclin for a while, and it worked somewhat, but there were always difficulties, and eventually, everyone just gave up on it.

mitic
04-06-2010, 04:30 PM
The behavior over 10 years old content on an emu server has moved into "They need to go see someone" weirdness

I could understand if they were breaking new ground, but this is 10 year old ass nostalgia. Waking people up at 5 AM to take down a 10 year old dragon, or tracking this old ass shit with afk druids 24/7 is in the realm of mental illness

yep there is a difference between a 10 year old game and one just released if people prefer to play the 10year old game ;) looks like YOU dont understand.

Trimm
04-06-2010, 04:31 PM
Community run calendars can only work when essentially ALL raid capable guilds agree to abide by them. When one doesn't, you have to address the issue of what happens when your raid gets jacked by one of the guilds that don't follow the calendar?

Or it would work if 5 of the 6 guilds agree to it and are backed by GM enforcement (if necessary).

Zexa
04-06-2010, 04:55 PM
Time to release Velious I see

Tallenn
04-06-2010, 05:49 PM
If it's backed by GM enforcement, then it's not a community-run calendar.

Wasn't that already tried here, and dumped?

I don't care either way- I won't be raiding for a long time, if ever. Just sharing my experiences with a community run calendar in live.

Shamaeso
04-06-2010, 05:56 PM
Time to release Velious I see

hmm so instead of fixing the problem just dissipate it by adding more content?

jettoki
04-06-2010, 06:08 PM
Seriously, is there a reason why the raid guilds don't form alliances and cooperate? Even if one guild refuses to cooperate, the participating guilds can work together to enforce alliance rules.

Game Theory, people.

Gwence
04-06-2010, 06:11 PM
I think the addition of content widens the gap and in the end is the only real solution. There's always going to be some fighting between guilds doesnt matter if the content is 1 month old or 10 years old, it's simple human nature, we're wired to compete and with competition comes a myriad of other side effects, some being pleasant and some being un-pleasant.

Montreal
04-06-2010, 06:22 PM
wow you can read .. cudos ... so what you think will happen? every guild will fill out the calendar for 2 weeks, just to get as many spots as they can ... so unless you do the same, you will prolly get 1 ~2 targets every 2 weeks ...

RULES FOR FEAR RESERVATION
When posting, post the time, date and guild(if applicable) as the name of the topic. This makes the moderators job easier.

I. You cannot post more then 2 weeks ahead of the start of the raid. Post will be deleted if it breaks the rule. Board time will be used to determine this.

II. Do not reserve Fear again before your first raid is over. The second post of 2 will be deleted.

So I can't read, you can't read, etc etc...

Now back on the topic...

LazyFuj
04-06-2010, 06:31 PM
why do some people always bring up "fight over 10 year old content". Who the hell cares if its 10 year old content? It's a game, play it, if you don't like that it is 10 year old content, go live.

Also I don't think there is a fighting over trash mobs in planes. So thats not a problem.

gloam
04-06-2010, 06:35 PM
I agree with Gwence. The "problem" as it stands, has been worked on since there was but 2 guilds competing for content. Now, were half way to kunark, and not a damn thing has been solved, but we now have 6-8 guilds who want to work the content. 10ish years of EQ and other games should have taught everyone at least this, 90% of pve guilds dont care to fully cooperate with each other, only doing so when its of benefit to themselves, so Shamaeso, we can play the UN versus Iran, and talk til we are blue in the face, no solution will be unanimously agreed upon without interevention and supervision of the GMs,. who have already told us to figure it out ourselves.

Alliances work alot the same way, except that initially, the guilds involved think they want to cooperate, until the point that one guild feels that its carrying the load, and wants compensated appropriatly, which generally means they want control of the alliance, or the want a larger portion of the drops, or both. Alliances are great for pvp, but so very tricky to pull off in pve, though some have worked.

Murferoo
04-06-2010, 07:14 PM
Not to sidetrack, but this 10 year old content argument TheDude brings up in every post he makes is ridiculous. Who gives a shit? You almost sound intelligent in your posts and then you essentially try to put everyone else down by raising yourself above it by claiming, "Hey, you're all tools...10 year old content...blah blah" ...at least find a new way to be an arrogant and increasingly irrelevant douche. Thanks in advance.

Calendar is the way to go.

Montreal
03-01-2012, 02:10 PM
Bump !

Dumesh Uhl'Belk
03-01-2012, 02:25 PM
Divinity does not support this idea.

Talk to Acryd or any other up and coming guild that has been in Hate or Fear at the same time as Divinity. We call all the armor rot drops for anyone else in the zone at the same time as us, but we're porting up/zoning in whenever we want to. We will not respect a calendar.

Also, WTFTHREADNECRO

Xanthias
03-01-2012, 03:42 PM
Also, WTFTHREADNECRO

Holy Thread Necromancy Batman!