Why melee PvP?

[compulsion]

I played casters on RZ and SZ, and haven't played EQ in 7 years. But as I have played a bit, I just don't think I'm down for 41 more levels of nuke, nuke, nuke, book, repeat.

So for me, and anyone else thinking about starting up, can someone with recent experience give us your thoughts on 50(or 40+ even) melee play?

Bard - more of a caster at high levels? never seen one seriously try to melee.

Ranger - seem fun, but I remember them being such easy kills.

Paladin / SK - diverse options for spells make these seem like the only decent choices in the bunch.

Monk - mend and high damage output, but terrible resists and low health?

Rogue - completely terrible?

Warrior - high health and 50(?) base MR count for anything?

Server latency makes it hard to even joust mobs sometimes, much less a player blinking all over the screen. Aside from battles over a zoneline, are melee just 2nd class citizens?

[Dfn]

If caster leveling is bland to you then GL melee leveling.

Turn auto attack on. Watch for 30 seconds. Wait for next mob. Repeat.

[Bazooka]

Roll SK or caster.

DONE

[Softcore PK]

Playing melee in pvp builds character.

[Danger]

Roll a rogue.

[socialist]

I played casters on RZ and SZ, and haven't played EQ in 7 years. But as I have played a bit, I just don't think I'm down for 41 more levels of nuke, nuke, nuke, book, repeat.

Most melee classes aren't much different. Rogues, warriors and monks are even more primitive, and the hybrids don't use most of their spells. Playing a paladin in high-level PvP is more like auto-attack, auto-attack, heal, auto-attack, divine aura. There's some added utility that mostly gets used outside of fights, but less than that of any given caster class, and during a fight it's mostly just running up and hitting your target. If diversity is your concern, you won't find more of it with a melee class. I recommend shaman or bard.

So for me, and anyone else thinking about starting up, can someone with recent experience give us your thoughts on 50(or 40+ even) melee play?

Can't really say how 40+ melee PvP will be on this server since, well, nobody is 40+ yet. It's possible that Null made some changes to the resist system and such that will change high-end PvP a lot from how it was back in the day. Traditionally, high-end melee PvP depends a lot on your class, but generally it's more group-oriented compared to the solo-oriented PvP of classes like druids and wizards. Melees belong in the scary assist train that dominates dungeon PvP, not so much in random outdoor 1v1 encounters. A properly geared melee can do that as well, but there are too many disadvantages for it to work real well. Rangers are probably the only ones that are actually self-sufficient enough for it, and they're not among the strongest classes.

Bard - more of a caster at high levels? never seen one seriously try to melee.

Bards are mostly a support role for group PvP. Any group will want selos and resist songs, and this'll probably let that group win against any other group of similar numbers if they don't have a bard. They can PvP solo, but they usually can't kill people very fast and their main strength in solo PvP is that they can be nearly impossible to catch, hurt or escape from unless indoors. They can melee a little, but past level 30 or so, a bard is better off kiting melee opponents or dotting casters down while hopping out of range before they can get a spell off. You'd have to out-gear an opponent before going into melee would be worth it. You might simply do more damage by equipping a drum and twisting chant dots. Bards don't really count as a melee class.

Ranger - seem fun, but I remember them being such easy kills.

Rangers are pretty self-sufficient and make for an ok solo PvP class, but they aren't really good at anything other than tracking. You could fit them into an assist train simply because they're melee, but just about any other melee class would be better for this (except maybe paladins). They get a lot of useful utility, including sow, downtime heals and a +40fr buff. A level 50 ranger can have a DS of like 18 points thorns and the whatevercoat buff, and that's pretty strong against rogues and pre-Kunark monks. There aren't a lot of good 2handers for rangers before Kunark, but they can get a 25dmg one which will make them ok jousters. I estimated that they'd make decent caster killers with hate whip and shark tooth since they implemented melee push which should have made interrupting very easy with fast weapons, but after seeing level 5s routinely channel gate with a full group wailing on them, I'm not so sure about that.

Paladin / SK - diverse options for spells make these seem like the only decent choices in the bunch.

They're too different to put in the same category.

Paladins are defensive. They don't put out a lot of damage and will have a hard time killing anyone by themselves (if Null hasn't shit all over the resist system so that roots and stuns land/last on high-mr targets, remains to be seen) but they have really good heals and some decent buffs, including endure magic. A paladin plays more like their caster half than any of the other hybrids, and they should be pretty good for group PvP due to their ability to heal basically as well as a druid or shaman as long as their mana lasts. Not very self-sufficient despite this, lacking stuff like sow, invis, see invis, tracking etc. Think of them like a cleric who can't keep casting as long but can do ok melee damage.

Shadowknights are pretty strong. Considering most will be ogres or trolls, they can bash while still using high-damage 2handers. They get near-unresistable spell damage which, while not that high, can add up in a longer fight or let them finish off targets who have run out of melee range. Having both types of invis is very useful for getting to targets in dungeons, and feign death is just incredibly good in PvP since mobs get involved so easily and usually make you lose automatically if you can't get them off you. Harm Touch hurts, but the cooldown is so long that you should form your strategies around the expectation of not having it available, and shadowknights are strong enough without it. Probably the most solid melee class for PvP, and a well-geared SK is among the top PvP classes period. Also the only melee class that can cast see invis, which is important until Kunark.

Monk - mend and high damage output, but terrible resists and low health?

Monks aren't great until Kunark. Then they become great. As noted, they really lack resist gear in classic and will struggle to get even 100mr unbuffed in endgame gear. Feign death is great in PvP and monks shine in dungeon PvP because they never have to worry about getting mobs on them. Their damage is good since fists get a ratio of like 14/28 at level 50, but they'll get out-jousted by the 2hander classes, so it's more of an assist train class until they get their Kunark weapons. Probably requires a solid crew to do well. Popular among guilds that forget to read the server rules.

Rogue - completely terrible?

Rogues are kiiiinda terrible until Kunark when they become one of the best PvP classes (again, unless resists are fucked here). A 50 rogue in endgame gear and a Vox spear can do fairly well, but until then, they're near the bottom unless rolling deep in an assist train. Don't try to solo PvP on a rogue unless you're in the top guild and vastly outgear everyone.

Warrior - high health and 50(?) base MR count for anything?

Warriors aren't bad. They're kinda like rogues in that they can be a force in superb gear, and they have the advantage of being able to use 2handers (and having easier access to better 2handers than other classes) but have no utility whatsoever and need support to consistently do well. Also becomes one of the best PvP classes in Kunark and especially Velious.

Server latency makes it hard to even joust mobs sometimes, much less a player blinking all over the screen. Aside from battles over a zoneline, are melee just 2nd class citizens?

The key to getting the most out of a melee class is to have a consistent crew. If you're playing on your own, don't even bother playing any melee except maybe ranger or possibly shadowknight. You'll have all kinds of crippling issues such as levitating opponents, so you really need the support of a group to do much. The golden rule is that casters are for solo PvP and melees are for group PvP.

[Juugox2]

i give props on any troll sks lol that 50% sucks im sure :P

[axius]

i give props on any troll sks lol that 50% sucks im sure :P

68%

[Vohl]

Monk - mend and high damage output, but terrible resists and low health?

Resist gear options are limited but definitely still available. Outside of dungeons, travel with SoW and a few friends. Inside dungeons, you have a lot of options other classes cannot match. Bolting away from attackers into areas with hostile mobs and FDing can get you out of trouble, as can Safe Fall. Carry pumice later on in case some snarky caster chases you with Levitation up. Intimidation on pets is good for hyuks. It's pretty easy to skill up as well.

On the down side, Disarm in PvP was broken in beta in a couple of ways and is likely still broken on live Red99.

[HippoNipple]

Outside of dungeons, travel with SoW and a few friends.

Bolting away from attackers into areas with hostile mobs and FDing can get you out of trouble


Hmmm need a spell your class doesn't have along with a couple friends around you at all times to not auto die to pvpers - sounds fun.

[Supreme]

68%

68% for Trolls

61% for Ogres

[xblade724]

I played casters on RZ and SZ, and haven't played EQ in 7 years. But as I have played a bit, I just don't think I'm down for 41 more levels of nuke, nuke, nuke, book, repeat.

So for me, and anyone else thinking about starting up, can someone with recent experience give us your thoughts on 50(or 40+ even) melee play?

Bard - more of a caster at high levels? never seen one seriously try to melee.

Ranger - seem fun, but I remember them being such easy kills.

Paladin / SK - diverse options for spells make these seem like the only decent choices in the bunch.

Monk - mend and high damage output, but terrible resists and low health?

Rogue - completely terrible?

Warrior - high health and 50(?) base MR count for anything?

Server latency makes it hard to even joust mobs sometimes, much less a player blinking all over the screen. Aside from battles over a zoneline, are melee just 2nd class citizens?


Bard at higher lvls on classic pvp is perfect. No mana useage, fastest speeds, and you are pretty much a caster. I made a bard myself. You are more of a chanter with free mana. Ranger? sucks til luclin. Kunark at VERY minimum. paladin? not bad. blind, stun, bash+stun .. great vs casters. With the heals + classic, you just waste your pvpers mana away and finish them. Rogues? Amazing if you start the battle, but that's it. Warrior? Err.. you won't kill anyone, but you won't die easily. You are just sorta...there.. boring.

MONKS .. are interesting. My main on rallos zek was actually a monk. Monks suck pre lvl 30 - mend backfires/doesnt work, in classic your only choice is fists really until higher lvls. Then you have to get your 1hb up to par, which takes a while. Also FD doesnt work well til 30ish.

Once you get flying kick, you are the shit. Once mend always works, it's very satisfying. Now heres what a lot of people dont know .. when you feign death, the caster loses the target!!! so you run around a corner, feign death and stand back up, then you screw casters. Lots don't even notice.

Once kunark comes out, inner flames destroys face.

When you respawn, you don't need your corpse to do some decent damage with your bare fists. Sorta nice if you come back fast and a pure caster is low on mana.

Disarm? Very fun when you get it high up! Don't forget you can disarm PC's. Sends their weapon to their mouse. If you feign death after disarming them, they'll try to click on you and almost accidentally drop weapon, making them just deal with a bunch of annoying open windows and terrifyingly almost dropping your weapon. You can really mess with people. In old rallos, I used to leave them alive at 1% hp, disarm their weapon and kill them before they can bag it. If they had one open inventory slot, i could loot their weapon ;D

[compulsion]

Thanks for the replies that actually managed to stay on topic, and looking forward to any more.

Note: this isn't a matter of "what class can I solo to 50 as fast as possible then 2 shot under geared blue cons as they catch up?" Everyone who wants that already rolled a necro, druid, or to a lesser extent, wizard. It is about the big XvX wars will play out as the server progresses.

Melees just seem to have a more interesting role in groups, as well as more diverse gearing options, which could make them really fun as the server progresses. As well, quite a bit of PvP later in the game will be happening along zone lines which favors the melee playstyle.