Crowdsourcing Velious

[Splorf22]

I was thinking about this while reading the latest 'wipe the server' thread, and if there is any way to accelerate it dramatically. The fact is that many, many people have finished Kunark by now.

I don't know the mechanics of how you edit the server files for quests, drops, factions, and so on, but it must be possible to make them available (and the editing programs as well) on the wiki. You could then create another test server that rebooted every day with god mode and such so people could play with their changes. I'd absolutely be willing to spend a little time on this, and I think a lot of other people would too.

The biggest danger here would be people doing the usual wiki vandalism, but I think this could be minimized. First, we could follow the crowdsourcing phase with a period of the real devs checking things, beta testing etc. Second, just tie people's wiki accounts to their EQ accounts, and ban their characters if they are clearly manipulating things for their own benefit.

[Vondra]

I don't know whether it'd be feasible or not, but at least superficially I like the idea.

[Nuggie]

I think that figuring out the game mechanics is part of the challenge of EQ, no? If you open source it you give anyone that is willing to spend a little time looking the opportunity to know exactly how the game works.

Right?

[Vondra]

I think that figuring out the game mechanics is part of the challenge of EQ, no? If you open source it you give anyone that is willing to spend a little time looking the opportunity to know exactly how the game works.

Right?

This would be meaningful if the game was relatively new. As it is though, all the meaningful mechanics were figured out long ago.

[Splorf22]

Right. I remember seeing a thread earlier which was all about 'lets help the devs by going out to do research on spawns/loot tables/etc on old sites like Alla so they can type it in easily'. Well, why not let the players type stuff in themselves and eliminate the middleman.

[Seaweedpimp]

I was thinking about this while reading the latest 'wipe the server' thread, and if there is any way to accelerate it dramatically. The fact is that many, many people have finished Kunark by now.

I don't know the mechanics of how you edit the server files for quests, drops, factions, and so on, but it must be possible to make them available (and the editing programs as well) on the wiki. You could then create another test server that rebooted every day with god mode and such so people could play with their changes. I'd absolutely be willing to spend a little time on this, and I think a lot of other people would too.

The biggest danger here would be people doing the usual wiki vandalism, but I think this could be minimized. First, we could follow the crowdsourcing phase with a period of the real devs checking things, beta testing etc. Second, just tie people's wiki accounts to their EQ accounts, and ban their characters if they are clearly manipulating things for their own benefit.



What the problem? VD sure as hell hasnt finished kunark. So...

[Hasbinbad]

Nobody has finished Kunark yet that I know of except maybe that loot whore Zeelot (jk bro, all <3) and some bards that don't get much BIS gear in VP..

[Splorf22]

Well I'm just a humble app, so I don't think I'm some sort of guild representative. Personally I'm not sick of Kunark - I'm basing this rather loosely on the numerous wipe it clean threads that seem to surface every few weeks and the general overcrowding at the high end.

Anyway, crowdsourcing isn't magic. It's not like everything will happen overnight. I'm merely wondering if this is a way we could get Velious in 4-5 months rather than 10-12.

Also I don't see 'finishing X' as 'I killed the encounters thousands of times until I had every possible piece of best in slot gear' as much as 'I've done this encounter enough times that its no longer challenging or interesting'. I mean realistically its not like everyone is going to get a crown of rile unless velious is decades away. I mean, would you guys really prefer Velious in 12 months over 6?

[douglas1999]

I mean, would you guys really prefer Velious in 12 months over 6?

I would, if only cause epics still aren't in and I'd like a realistic shot at ever getting mine. They're still useful in velious I suppose, it's just harder to get the people together to go do the necessary encounters when they're all in Kunark\Old World zones and there's a juicy new expansion open.

[nilbog]

many people have finished Kunark by now.

It only seems this way because the max level players are also usually the most vocal in wanting new content. There are many players that haven't been to Sebilis, much less fought Kunark dragons.

I don't know the mechanics of how you edit the server files for quests, drops, factions, and so on
This sounds ominous.

, but it must be possible to make them available (and the editing programs as well) on the wiki. I was right. It is ominous :T

Since the original launch of the server, we've been refining the methodology on exactly how we want things developed. Even if a developer knows mysql, perl, or c++, their submissions still have to meet our standards, by our guidelines.

You could then create another test server that rebooted every day with god mode and such so people could play with their changes. I'd absolutely be willing to spend a little time on this, and I think a lot of other people would too.

The biggest danger here would be people doing the usual wiki vandalism, but I think this could be minimized. First, we could follow the crowdsourcing phase with a period of the real devs checking things, beta testing etc. Second, just tie people's wiki accounts to their EQ accounts, and ban their characters if they are clearly manipulating things for their own benefit.The sentiment is admirable, but that approach is disastrous.

Sorry, but none of this is going to happen. If you want to help make sure Velious gets done, I have several projects I can put together for community input that do not involve disclosing db or source.

I would, if only cause epics still aren't in and I'd like a realistic shot at ever getting mine.

Coming soon.

[yraapt]

This sounds ominous

....

I was right. It is ominous :T


I LOLed

[Vondra]

Well having stuff people can do to help out sounds good, regardless of what information is disclosed or not.

[Rais]

It only seems this way because the max level players are also usually the most vocal in wanting new content. There are many players that haven't been to Sebilis, much less fought Kunark dragons.
Coming soon.

You haven't seen the server recently in the past three weeks. Population around 200-350 during prime time*, and if there is a god/dragon spawn there are then at least 100-120 people in the zone.

Typically I would agree with you how it's always the max level players are the most vocal. It was like that on live, yet on here it's a polar opposite.

Expansions were always based off population and to pull people who stopped paying, to come back to EQ. It wasn't to give people more content to be in, it was to make more money.Keep people wanting to play= more money.

It was a cycle that happened on live, not on here though. The biggest reason is VP not being open on live. It allowed a influx of over 100 people to go into VP at the same time with soul bound keys. I also believe one mistake was having soul Bound VP keys. This allowed people to do VP with no risk. Trust me, CRs in VP could take hours on live, on here it takes under 10 mins.

If VP went in when Kunark went live, TR would have burnt out way before TMO/DA started to even have a group in VP. TMO/DA would have moved into VP opening other random dragons, and would have not bothered with anything other than besides a few Traks and VSs. This would have allowed all the other guilds who had the capabilities to kill all the other dragons and keep their interest high.

It would have opened more fresh content for all guilds if it was done as it was on live. We will once again have a small influx of people coming back when Epics will be put in. Some people would still be burnt out, but over all people would have more choices.

Now the server is down to 3 major guilds, when it was at one point an average of 45+ people in 6 of the "major guilds".

I understand you play with the hand you're dealt with. You had a lack of people with knowledge to code, develop or what have you. But to say most of the people on Blue99 haven't seen seb, is being a little dishonest. The server also had been out a long time where people NEEDED kunark to keep coming back. So I do understand why kunark was released without VP, or epics even being done. No one could have seen into the future on natural disasters that would happen and set things back, or devs quitting.

The most important thing if anything

If you want to help make sure Velious gets done, I have several projects I can put together for community input that do not involve disclosing db or source.

Make it happen. You won't have a flood of people willing to help*beta servers as example*, but you will have more than one or two people helping you as you do now. Not all of us have the master skills of a programmer, but we do enjoy what you have made here and want to help it anyway we can.

[stormlord]

Past month or two I'e wondered about what would happen if each quest allowed us to rate it after completing it. And there'd be a database to store the ratings. So we could go to this databaes and see what players think of the quests. The in-game feedback mechanism could be improved to allow for more details to be stored in the entry. From that, you could derive a lot of information about what might be working and what might not be.

The key is to make players work for you.

[Splorf22]

Hi Nilbog, glad to see this get some staff attention.

I think you are underestimating a little bit though how much people have plowed through Kunark. When I quit in early May, the server had 700+ people on during prime time every day. Sebilis was packed. 20 people in the morning, 40 people at night. Karnors was the same way, and there was almost always a Sarnak fort group and sometimes deeper ones. Hell, I remember TR sending a group into Hate for XP because things were so crowded down below.

Now we have 450 people on at prime time. I logged into Sebilis one morning and I was the *only* person there! Even in prime time there are rarely more than 15-20 people there. Chardok and City of Mist are often empty. My twink sees 5-10 in mistmoore and less in Unrest. I think you simply have a very hardcore batch of players who play a lot and level quickly, hence the necessity of Velious (I've waffled on this a bit, but ultimately I think a wipe would be a terrible idea, driving away any casual players and destroying the server's integrity).

Anyway I don't really know what goes on on the dev side, and how much of this stuff is automated and such. I certainly don't think that the average P1999 player can write C++ code for you. But if you have things you can get your players to help out on, and do so without keeping yourself directly in the loop, I think it will save you a lot of time and therefore accelerate what everyone says is an awesome expansion.

[Norok]

I just found out about the server and got started last week. Up to level 20 and grinding through nearly as fast as I can.

I am concerned that in a few months the population of higher levels will have dwindled due to just sheer lack of things to do that I will not have anyone to raid with! :(

Either way; I did very much enjoy Vellious back in the day so I'll be prepared for it!

[Lindalind]

But to say most of the people on Blue99 haven't seen seb, is being a little dishonest.


Since nobody said that, saying it is a little misleading.

[Uthgaard]

Since nobody said that, saying it is a little misleading.

There are many players that haven't been to Sebilis

[Psionide]

its a shame this project couldve been so much better if the majority of the server werent a bunch of shit bags, quit a while ago and occasionally check these forums and its still the same fucking broken records. Holy shit theres nothing else you can do or play till velious comes out?

[bluejam]

Not until I get mah pixelz~
(*_*)

[Brimacombe]

OK, I have to admit I do not have a cap character. So please give me the benefit of the doubt due to experience on live, and experience on life, if not experience points.
That being said, unless I have been misled, the end of the road is Velious. Yes, Kunark content can get old and many items have been trivialized through mudflation. Having an uber character feels good, on some levels, but sometimes it is not the having, it is the getting. I have been uber in many MMOs and after a while, you realize that the MMO is just a game, and the people are the people. A bit like what was said: Traveling is about the people. If you are tired of Kunark after however long (Notwithstanding most have already done all this content back on live and there is nothing new anyway) how tired are you going to be on year three when Velious is the last stop?
If you race to the stop sign, then the stop sign is doubly irritating. I like the idea of new content, but beyond the short term benefit of gratification is the realization that there is nothing more. Maybe there is something good about the wait.
Just my two cents. Enjoy the people and the game.

- Brimacombe

[Uthgaard]

Velious isn't necessarily the end of development. Imagine where EQ would have gone if SOE hadn't taken it away from dragons and epic adventure, to aliens and cats on the moon.

[Autotune]

Imagine where EQ would have gone if SOE hadn't taken it away from dragons and epic adventure, to aliens and cats on the moon.

straight to planes with new dragons appearing in random old world zones and ykesha frogloks as a playable race?

no books tho imo.

[Lindalind]

Luclin wasn't bad. The safe zones killed EQ.


It's always subjective.
Luclin was the worst thing you could do to a good mmorpg.

[Dravingar]

straight to planes with new dragons appearing in random old world zones and ykesha frogloks as a playable race?

no books tho imo.

Frogloks being playable pains my soul. They look like some half drunk tard made a sketch of them and then they gave them chainmail skirts.

Also luclin minus VT/Gay cats was amazing. Anyone who did SSRA temple will agree with me, it's the bads that have a problem with luclin cause it was the first expansion that really took some thought/ability to kill shit in.

[Ninja]

Frogloks being playable pains my soul.

I wish they woulda just altered the current froglok model some.

I didn't like the Luclin model style for Frogloks.

WTB Froglok Illusion lol.

[Norok]

That is quite a succinct way of pin pointing where it went wrong :D

Velious isn't necessarily the end of development. Imagine where EQ would have gone if SOE hadn't taken it away from dragons and epic adventure, to aliens and cats on the moon.

[Nirgon]

I'd rather the community was shitbags to each other competitively than COMPLETELY CLUELESS about the game they're playing like everything else out now.

[Autotune]

Frogloks being playable pains my soul. They look like some half drunk tard made a sketch of them and then they gave them chainmail skirts.

Also luclin minus VT/Gay cats was amazing. Anyone who did SSRA temple will agree with me, it's the bads that have a problem with luclin cause it was the first expansion that really took some thought/ability to kill shit in.

thankfully i don't care about your soul.