Ogre SK or Troll SK?

[Malrubius]

Which of these two races would people recommend for a Shadowknight, and why?

Edit...fwiw...
RACE STR STA AGI DEX WIS INT CHA BONUS
Ogre 140 127 70 70 67 70 42 20
Troll 118 114 83 75 60 62 45 20

And there is regen (trolls) or frontal stun immunity (ogres) to consider.

[JayDee]

Gnomes when they become available !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! *brief pause* !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

That might even be post velious for all I know but they are beztest.

[Dangergirl]

Just look at those numbers. Key stats of Str Stam and Int are + 43 for ogre.

But, on p99 regen is stronger than classic for trolls, a friend at lvl 25 reported +5 per tic to me. On classic im pretty sure it was +1 then they changed it to scale by lvl.

You will be in a spot where you must have a shrink to pull or move more often as an ogre than troll.

The clincher for me to play an ogre is...I went from 34-44 on live as an sk in lguk and only died 1ce thanks to FD, to be unstunnable while facing mobs trying to FD is huge. Then again on live I was an elf not an ogre so mebe it's not that huge, and I have heard the unstunnable front ogre is not coded on p99 currently.

[magic]

trolls are cooler to look at, less fun to play (watching yourself run as a troll gets really, really boring after about 5 minutes)

ogres, on the other hand, look super fucking cool while running. especially when shrunken. since guise no longer drops, i'd have to say go ogre. hands down.

[nalkin]

Trolls get more respect imo. I see a troll sk, and I bow. I see an ogre sk and Im like "meh".

[Sadface]

I see troll sk's and I think lol 5 FR

[Eastwood]

That resist is the breaker of the tie IMO

[Dac321]

Troll ftw

[girth]

I like my ogre, although he's only like level 8 currently cause of the outage. And i'm pretty sure the ogre not being stunned from the front IS in game, its just melee stuns only.

[nilbog]

I like my ogre, although he's only like level 8 currently cause of the outage. And i'm pretty sure the ogre not being stunned from the front IS in game, its just melee stuns only.

If you have knowledge about how ogre frontal stun mechanics should work, please reply to the open thread about it http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3144

[Malrubius]

If you have knowledge about how ogre frontal stun mechanics should work, please reply to the open thread about it http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3144

Interesting thread, that. All you ogre experts (is that a contradiction?) please post to the above thread and add your 2 cents so they can get this fixed!

I never played an Ogre, so can't really comment beyond the sales pitch.

[Nedala]

Which of these two races would people recommend for a Shadowknight, and why?

Edit...fwiw...
RACE STR STA AGI DEX WIS INT CHA BONUS
Ogre 140 127 70 70 67 70 42 20
Troll 118 114 83 75 60 62 45 20

And there is regen (trolls) or frontal stun immunity (ogres) to consider.

I dont see any reason why you would pick a troll over a ogre?

Ogre: better stats, stun immune, less exp penatlie, look better(imo); where is the reason trolls have higher exp penalties anyway??

[Zordana]

where is the reason trolls have higher exp penalties anyway??

because of their regen

[Ghaz]

troll. always

[Sloth]

troll obviously. ty

[Nedala]

because of their regen

hmm Ogre have better stats + stun immune, sounds way better to me than more regen, just my thought.

[Elissa]

Assuming frontal stun immunity works or at least will eventually, I'd have to say Ogre. Without that mechanic, troll ftw!

[JayFiveAlive]

Frontal stun immunity doesn't work atm, but Ogre still is the best choice stat-wise. Looks and other cosmetics are all personal opinion ;)

Ogre FTW I say!

[Juasquemelol]

Id say troll, regen in classic is pretty much op.

[Malrubius]

Sounds like there are far fewer Troll SKs, and as far as the xp penalty goes - meh - I actually prefer to level slowly unlike I did in 99-00.

So I am leaning toward Troll.

[guineapig]

Unless you are soloing, any race based regen becomes almost useless by the time you're in your 20s. And I don't see many SK's soloing on this server. Not saying they can't, but it can be tedious and with the exp penalty being what it is for a troll SK. I can't imagine anyone preferring to fear kite solo instead of being in a 6 man exp group. (edit, besides Marl :) )

This is also the reason why I never put much value in the Rubicite BP. It's fun for a low level twink but quickly becomes inferior to something that provides HP and stamina.

The only case where race based regen NEVER looses its usefulness is if you are playing a necro or shaman. Those classes can solo effectively throughout the entire game and are HP dependent for maintaining good mana flow.


(Complete side note: I remember the first time I saw a shadowknight soloing trash mobs in the plane of disease. I know it's not rocket science or anything but back in the day I was immensely impressed. At that time I would have needed mad AA points to be able to solo anything in PoP for exp in my 50's-60's.)

[JayDee]

Well since Ogre frontal stun immunity is bugged atm, it's clearly troll at the moment for reducing downtime.

You might be thinking who cares a few regen per tick, but for soloing it is a huge advantage. Even for grouping for say 6 hours, the math works out something like this:

5 regen per tick (for sake of argument, not sure what it is here but someone mentioned it beneficially bugged and set at +5 atm) x 3600 (10 ticks per min times 60 for hours and times 6 for the sake of this argument) = That is 18,000 extra hp you've regen'd over that period. That number is subjected to change +/- depending on exact regen amount.

P.S. Fix ogre frontal stun immunity :p

[Healthcare]

So what do you put points into at creation when making an Ogre SK? Not sure if extra points into INT will help and they start with just 70 DEX and AGI which I guess hits your AC with the lower AGI but not sure if you take a hit on procing when you have below 75 DEX. So confusing.

[JayFiveAlive]

I say all INT and rest into STA if you got any :P

[Malrubius]

Well since Ogre frontal stun immunity is bugged atm, it's clearly troll at the moment for reducing downtime.

You might be thinking who cares a few regen per tick, but for soloing it is a huge advantage. Even for grouping for say 6 hours, the math works out something like this:

5 regen per tick (for sake of argument, not sure what it is here but someone mentioned it beneficially bugged and set at +5 atm) x 3600 (10 ticks per min times 60 for hours and times 6 for the sake of this argument) = That is 18,000 extra hp you've regen'd over that period. That number is subjected to change +/- depending on exact regen amount.

P.S. Fix ogre frontal stun immunity :p

This leads to the question I was about to ask. Anybody KNOW what troll regen is here, and, what troll regen was on classic?

If it's a constant amount like 3hp per tick or something, then it's really diminishing returns, correct? It will make a huge difference at early levels, a nice-to-have later, and almost unnoticeable at 50+. Anybody disagree?

[guineapig]

This leads to the question I was about to ask. Anybody KNOW what troll regen is here, and, what troll regen was on classic?

If it's a constant amount like 3hp per tick or something, then it's really diminishing returns, correct? It will make a huge difference at early levels, a nice-to-have later, and almost unnoticeable at 50+. Anybody disagree?

I agree, that 18,000 extra hp regened, as mentioned before only means something if you are soloing. If you are sitting you are not gaining exp so whatever time you are making up during medding is more than lost by the fact that you are gaining exp at a fraction of the rate that you would be if you have a healer with you 9not to mention the group exp bonus).

Healers will still be healing you based on the percentage of health you are at. In the middle of a fight they aren't looking at how fast you will naturally regen hp if they don't heal you. It's simply not viable for a group to wait for natural health regen in most situations and therefor the healing mana saved will be barely noticable.

In other words if you plan on exclusively soloing, sure go for Troll SK, but with the exp penalty you will be soloing for a very very long time. If you plan on grouping, go for the aesthetic you like.