Rules for spawned epic mobs

[ElanoraBryght]

Is it against server rules to charm / mez / memblur epic mobs, and loot epic mobs that you didn't kill / did not have permission to loot?

Many clerics are eager to know.

[Skekekke]

Cause it's an epic mob, it isn't classified as ninja looting or KS'ing.

Nice troll.

[Cyrano]

Only took 1 post the RnFers to derail this thread.

IMO just don't be dickholes. If someone was there first wait your turn in line.

[ElanoraBryght]

This was a serious question. Please link to server rules saying that epic mobs have a ninja loot / ks exception.
Cause it's an epic mob, it isn't classified as ninja looting or KS'ing.

Nice troll.

[Skekekke]

Sorry, didn't take it as a serious question. What I posted was an extremely sarcastic remark.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14667

All mobs should be treated the same, regardless of it's rarity, significance, etc. If it isn't engaged, then go for it.

Shouldn't we all live by the golden rule?

[maverixdamighty]

I would think it would be very much against the rules to do that to a mob that someone else did the turn in for. Not only are you ks'ing, but you are causing the person who spawned the mob to have to redo all that work. Just my opinion.

FTE in that case would be first to do the turn in = their mob.

[Skekekke]

There's a rule somewhere about triggered mobs...

[Rais]

Q: What rules pertain to raid mobs that are triggered spawns?
A: If a raid mob is triggered to spawn by killing a single mob before it (Example: Statue -> Idol -> Avatar of War), the guild that spawned the mob has 20 minutes to engage it. The mob is open to any other guild on a first to engage basis once the first guild has either wiped or not engaged within the time limit.

Q: What about raid mobs that are spawned by a combination of other mobs?
A: In the case of a raid mob that is spawned by clearing an area (Example: Azarack Island in Plane of Sky), the guild that did the clearing has the same consideration as above; That is, 20 Minutes to engage and 1 attempt. In the case of multiple guilds contributing significantly to the spawn of the mob, the mob is first to engage by any of those guilds.


It falls into this line I would hope.

[Fazlazen]

Dont fuck with another guild's spawned epic mob... This rule doesnt even go far enough imo.

[Tiggles]

Dont fuck with another guild's spawned epic mob... This rule doesnt even go far enough imo.

[Aata]

If people communicated with each other more over epic spawns there would be less issues, nothing wrong with shooting someone a tell finding out what they are doing and how long they're going to be around.

[Ele]

I assume you are referencing Zordak Ragefire?

[Flunklesnarkin]

probably ixiblat fer.. gotta kill that one dude.. then he spawn all the way across the zone.

[Cyrano]

If people communicated with each other more over epic spawns there would be less issues, nothing wrong with shooting someone a tell finding out what they are doing and how long they're going to be around.

There is no issue of people attempting to communicate. It's that a certain group of players has zero interest in playing nice when it comes to epic mobs. They want to try and twist rules to make their behavior acceptable.

[Raavak]

I'm guessing Ragefire from this morning. Doubt it matters who got the actual kill, when things are sorted out the right cleric will get their epic. Guessing most would agree with this.

[Raavak]

It's that a certain group of players has zero interest in playing nice when it comes to epic mobs. They want to try and twist rules to make their behavior acceptable.

I've heard alot of so-called rules that I can't find posted? I'm getting the feeling lately people are making up their own rules as they go.

[falkun]

Except it should be cut and dry how to "sort it out" and who the "right cleric" is. When working with "a certain group of players" (credit: cyrano), the grey language in your post is what the aforementioned certain group loves to play lawyer with.

[Rogean]

Is it against server rules to charm / mez / memblur epic mobs, and loot epic mobs that you didn't kill / did not have permission to loot?

Many clerics are eager to know.

You're going to need to be more specific about what mob you're talking about, because I'm not going to give a blanket answer based on your vague and general description

[Ele]

probably ixiblat fer.. gotta kill that one dude.. then he spawn all the way across the zone.

Ixiblat is just a turn in to Naxot Deepwater, both of their spawn points are listed in the wiki. You just have a puller ready to grab it before the cleric does their turn in.

[falkun]

I've heard alot of so-called rules that I can't find posted? I'm getting the feeling lately people are making up their own rules as they go.

Found them for you. (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14667)

And anything not covered in that section can be found here (http://www.project1999.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2).

And finally, although I doubt you have access to it unless you are a raid guild officer, agreements between raid guilds are located here (http://www.project1999.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=60). They are not server rules enforced by GMs, but by the guilds in the agreements.

[Raavak]

Found them for you. (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14667)

And anything not covered in that section can be found here (http://www.project1999.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2).

And finally, although I doubt you have access to it unless you are a raid guild officer, agreements between raid guilds are located here (http://www.project1999.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=60). They are not server rules enforced by GMs, but by the guilds in the agreements.

Since Rage spawned, several pearls disappeared from several clerics, and Jeremy was aggroed, I guess we can congratulate him on his water sprinkler. Thanks for clearing that up. It wasn't so clear at the time.

[Bruman]

I've heard alot of so-called rules that I can't find posted? I'm getting the feeling lately people are making up their own rules as they go.

The problem is the "rules lawyering". There's the posted rules, then some shit storm happens, then the GMs come to sort it out, and people screenshot everything they say, then repost random GM lines as new parts of the gospel, take it completely out of context, and basically twist and distort everything to mean whatever equals "loot for me".

If you're unsure, I recommend sending a tell to whoever is there and working it out amicably. Put yourself in each others shoes, and try to get along.

Most people though get pixel fever and just use it to be a raging d-bag, then resort to "rules lawyering" after the fact to try to avoid a ban.

[Metallikus]

I would love for the people who follow server rules have their petitions answered in a timely manner. There are several raid dispute petitions months old that have never been resolved or responded to. This hands off approach goes against everything stated in the policies. Far too long has the douchebag tactics trumped the mild mannered reasonable tact. The lawlessness allows these idiots to train, memblur, kill steal, ninja loot with impunity. Proof is demanded, yet it sits there in the face with countless logs, fraps, screenshots in the unanswered petition section.

[Raavak]

The problem is the "rules lawyering".

Actually I'm not referring to any of the grey-area type rules, but there's been alot of stuff thrown around lately that people are either bringing from epic experience on their live servers or blatantly made up to match their situation, and its so :rolleyes: In hindsite maybe it didn't apply to this thread...

Rules lawyering is always going to happen. I think we're all wise enough to understand there's always at least two side to any argument (by definition). Its why we have laws in society, and still need courts to decide arguments, ya know? Everything isn't cut and dry in reality.

In SolB today, I was there, and people were claiming the NPC was broken, and others tried different things to test. I'd really like to hear Daliant's version of what happened, and not grief from people who weren't even there and obviously don't know the whole story either.

[PeaceOnNorrath]

Put a rotation on this mob so each guild (not only IB-TMO-VD) can have a few cleric epics within a few months so they can recover faster from their CR in raid/events. Everyone will be happy, even the GMs!

That's easy and can be done with other similar targets also. We just have to accept to share!

Let's work together, competition is good, not war.



Peace on Norrath!

[Morsakin]

Nice 1st post.....PeaceOnNorrath. While a list for Ragefire would be beneficial for players not in guilds capable of downing him quickly, I could only see such a list working if:

1) The spawn time were fixed at a slightly adjusted level (Around the minimum time that Ragefire could spawn given a variable spawn system)
2) The list was enforced in such a heavy handed manner that even Robocop would be proud.

And for the record, I had to wait approximately 6 months in a list to get my Sprinkler back in 2000/2001, so I hate lists just as much as the next guy, if not more.

[ElanoraBryght]

How will unguilded clerics get on this list?
Put a rotation on this mob so each guild (not only IB-TMO-VD) can have a few cleric epics within a few months so they can recover faster from their CR in raid/events. Everyone will be happy, even the GMs!

That's easy and can be done with other similar targets also. We just have to accept to share!

Let's work together, competition is good, not war.



Peace on Norrath!

[maverixdamighty]

as much as everyone wants a cleric epic in order to maximize the amount of them on the server you have to be there and ready for ragefire as soon as he pops and kill him very quickly.

[Rasah]

How will unguilded clerics get on this list?Not to be a wiseass, but how will an unguilded cleric kill Ragefire?

[Raavak]

It seems people are looking to the GMs to do something, but really its the players who are going to have to sit down together and do it, just like on the live servers.

I heard there was a rough agreement layed out on P99 that the turn-in cleric had 20 minutes to form a raid force and engage? Its a start.

[maverixdamighty]

How will unguilded clerics get on this list?


same way unguilded of every class will, by joining a guild or by being a rogue.

[Bruman]

same way unguilded of every class will, by joining a guild or by being a rogue.

*rimshot*

[Raavak]

Make a list based on the order you got the receive a Shimmering Pearl? Hard to prove, except by timestamped screenshots, and there's probably 10 clerics at that point right now...

[ElanoraBryght]

You don't have to be in a guild to have friends.
(And all your friends don't have to be in the same guild.)
Not to be a wiseass, but how will an unguilded cleric kill Ragefire?

[Ele]

The next patch will bring a corrected, classic Ragefire spawn timer, i.e. multiple spawns in between Nagafens. Within a few months people will likely be able to waltz in to Nagafen's Lair and find him standing there in all his merchant glory.

[Sizzle]

I will say this, EVERY SINGLE MAGE that I dealt with while completing the mage epic worked together and passed the camps accordingly to who was there and waiting. In fact, I even had help from mages outside of my own guild <Divinity> who helped me kill some of the more painful spawns and give me information on how to find/kill/engage said epic camps. Thank you to all the mages and good hearted players out there who still exist.

[ElanoraBryght]

Talking things out is a wonderful philosophy. 10 players sitting and waiting for an NPC to spawn can reach a peaceful agreement, yet an 11th can show up and ruin it for them all. And that's one reason we need rules - so the one jerk doesn't ruin a good thing for the other 10, or 20, or 500.

You're going to need to be more specific about what mob you're talking about, because I'm not going to give a blanket answer based on your vague and general description
Maligar in West Karanas
Maligar’s Enraged Doppleganger in West Karanas
Blackwing in Rathe Mountains
Nezekezena or Phurzicon in Burning Woods
Eldrig the Old in Skyfire Mountains
Quag Maelstrom in Ocean of Tears
Phinigel Autropos in Kedge Keep
Lord Nagafen
Zordakalicus Ragefire
Talendor
Lady Vox
Gorenaire
Trakanon
Ixiblat Fer in Burning Woods
Overking Bathezid in Chardok
Zordak Ragefire
Zordakalicus Ragefire
Black Reaver in City of Mist
Venril Sathir
Faydedar in Timorous Deep
Prince Selrach Di'zok in Chardok
Vessel Drozlin in Cabilis
Verina Tomb in Neriak
Cazel in Oasis
Spectral Librarian in Kaesora.
Felia Goldenwing in Skyfire
Wraith of Jaxion in the City of Mist
Impaler Tzilug in the Overthere
Wraith of a Shissar in the Plane of Fear
Ghost of Kindle in The Hole
a forsaken revenant in the Plane of Hate
Tangrin in the Field of Bone
Black Reavers in City of Mist
Neh'Ashirr in the City of Mist
Nezekenza, Phurzikon, and Glyton in the Burning Woods
Undertow in Kedge Keep
Innoruuk in the Plane of Hate
Slixin Klex in the Burning Wood.
Captain Rottgrime in the Overthere
Trabul Earthstrider in East Karana
Iksar betrayer in Chardok
Drolvarg pawbuster in Karnor's Castle
Gwam in Plane of Sky.
Trunt in Mines of Nurga
Vorash and Deep in Lake of Ill Omen
Cazic Thule in the Plane of Fear
Ghost of Glohnor in the Hole
High Scale Kirn in the Hole
Lord Rak in City of Mist
Enraged Golem in the Plane of Fear


Once a person, group, or guild has handed in a quest item, spawned, or engaged any of the above mobs, is it ok for another person, group or guild to charm / mez / memblur that mob without the original party's consent?

If an NPC accepts turn in items from multiple PC's at the same time, is it ok for someone not getting exp to loot items without the agreement of the party which had exp? (Some of the mobs listed have short corpses; a GM will likely not be available to respond before corpse rot.)

[Maze513]

sounds like we need a GM at every VD encounter to be safe

[Rais]

Or people just need other guilds not to attack or loot epic mobs people didn't spawn. This isn't about one guild, its about a server that has people lacking common decency.

[Fazlazen]

What ninja looting occurence are we talking about here ?

[Daldaen]

Talking things out is a wonderful philosophy. 10 players sitting and waiting for an NPC to spawn can reach a peaceful agreement, yet an 11th can show up and ruin it for them all. And that's one reason we need rules - so the one jerk doesn't ruin a good thing for the other 10, or 20, or 500.


Maligar in West Karanas
Maligar’s Enraged Doppleganger in West Karanas
Blackwing in Rathe Mountains
Nezekezena or Phurzicon in Burning Woods
Eldrig the Old in Skyfire Mountains
Quag Maelstrom in Ocean of Tears
Phinigel Autropos in Kedge Keep
Lord Nagafen
Zordakalicus Ragefire
Talendor
Lady Vox
Gorenaire
Trakanon
Ixiblat Fer in Burning Woods
Overking Bathezid in Chardok
Black Reaver in City of Mist
Venril Sathir
Faydedar in Timorous Deep
Prince Selrach Di'zok in Chardok
Vessel Drozlin in Cabilis
Verina Tomb in Neriak
Cazel in Oasis
Spectral Librarian in Kaesora.
Felia Goldenwing in Skyfire
Wraith of Jaxion in the City of Mist
Impaler Tzilug in the Overthere
Wraith of a Shissar in the Plane of Fear
Ghost of Kindle in The Hole
a forsaken revenant in the Plane of Hate
Tangrin in the Field of Bone
Black Reavers in City of Mist
Neh'Ashirr in the City of Mist
Nezekenza, Phurzikon, and Glyton in the Burning Woods
Undertow in Kedge Keep
Innoruuk in the Plane of Hate
Slixin Klex in the Burning Wood.
Captain Rottgrime in the Overthere
Trabul Earthstrider in East Karana
Iksar betrayer in Chardok
Drolvarg pawbuster in Karnor's Castle
Gwam in Plane of Sky.
Trunt in Mines of Nurga
Vorash and Deep in Lake of Ill Omen
Cazic Thule in the Plane of Fear
Ghost of Glohnor in the Hole
High Scale Kirn in the Hole
Lord Rak in City of Mist


Once a person, group, or guild has handed in a quest item, spawned, or engaged any of the above mobs, is it ok for another person, group or guild to charm / mez / memblur that mob without the original party's consent?

If an NPC accepts turn in items from multiple PC's at the same time, is it ok for someone not getting exp to loot items without the agreement of the party which had exp? (Some of the mobs listed have short corpses; a GM will likely not be available to respond before corpse rot.)

Lemme stop you there. Only the bolded ones are spawned via a turnin / hail. The rest may be spawned by a PHer being killed or on a timer, but are by no means spawned by a turnin or hail.

[ElanoraBryght]

Lemme stop you there. Only the bolded ones are spawned via a turnin / hail. The rest may be spawned by a PHer being killed or on a timer, but are by no means spawned by a turnin or hail.

"...or engaged..."
Ah - good point on the title of the post though. It would have been better named "Rules for epic mobs" without the spawned.

[Fazlazen]

Seriously, what are you even talking about ?

[Ele]

(Giant list)



Each of those encounters has different aspects to it that are governed by various different rules. Some of those are regular static camps whereas others are raid encounters or a series of triggered spawns.

If an NPC accepts turn in items from multiple PC's at the same time, is it ok for someone not getting exp to loot items without the agreement of the party which had exp? (Some of the mobs listed have short corpses; a GM will likely not be available to respond before corpse rot.)

From the wording of this statement you seek assurance that if multiple persons turn in the required item or use a phrase to trigger a mob, that the exp receiving group (KS) should get the loot and not the first person to turn in the item whether or not they were the first to trigger.

The rules outline that if a person is not entitled to loot the mob, then it is ninjalooting. A person is not entitled if they did not have FTE, did not trigger the spawn first, or received permission to loot the item from the party that is entitled to the item.

[Raavak]

Lotta people showing how little they understand what happened.

[Zapatos]

Let's shy away from the rhetorical question a bit because we already know that for general mobs and npcs that are engaged: training, kill stealing and ninja looting are against the rules. I'll agree that mem blurring and charming should be added for clarification (although that already constitutes raid interference on bigger targets).

For triggered mobs in the kill x to spawn y category (see plane of sky), we have those rules plus a 20minute engage timer or 1 wipe for the raid who triggers.

The problem here seems to be from epic - quest encounters. After one player turns in an item that triggers an event/npc, how long does the player have before another group or raid can engage, if at all? This is different than a normal 'triggered' mob because, for epics, they will usually require hours, if not days, of work in order to get to the point of triggering their mob in the first place; a 20minute timer/1 attempt is by no means fair.

edit:
Off of the top of my head, some examples now would be the druid/ranger epic event in east karana, Ixiblat Fer, Ragefire, the doppleganger in WK.... and down the road would be the triggered versions of Venril Sathir, Faydedar, and Trakanon, to name a few.

[Raavak]

a 20minute timer/1 attempt is by no means fair.

Right, on Ragefire it was just sorta agreed I guess yesterday, since two guilds had alot of raiders on hand. Would be a bad precident.

[Raavak]

What if multiple people are feverishly clicking away waiting to trade with a mob that may spawn, and when he does multiple characters may have conceivably done the turn-in to spawn the mob, which is now aggro on everyone. What if this happens when no GM's are around. Is there a way to determine whose it is?

[Bruman]

Gee, I wonder why the industry moved toward instances!

[Raavak]

Gee, I wonder why the industry moved toward instances!
Yeah really, you hardly need GM's with that.

[Rasah]

What if multiple people are feverishly clicking away waiting to trade with a mob that may spawn, and when he does multiple characters may have conceivably done the turn-in to spawn the mob, which is now aggro on everyone. What if this happens when no GM's are around. Is there a way to determine whose it is?Yes. Work it out before it spawns. Having multiple people spam click a soon to be popping mob is just asking for trouble.

Roll for it. Or duel for it. Or have a druid/ranger determine which character was in the zone first using track. Pushing and shoving, then lawyering up is not the answer.

[Raavak]

What fun would that be? lol
Srsly though, it needs to be done.

[Daldaen]

"...or engaged..."
Ah - good point on the title of the post though. It would have been better named "Rules for epic mobs" without the spawned.

Well that entirely changes it. You have a point for mobs that are physically spawned by a player doing some turnin or hail.

Other mobs that just spawn on a timer (Zordak or raid mobs) they are all too varied to throw an overarching rule over.


Zordak for example is a long ass camp and how do you determine 'who has the next shot at it?'. Does the player have to be not-afk at the camp the entire time? Who would moderate this the players? Why not just try to get your turnin first so you can claim it was yours and screw everyone else (which I'm sure has/will be happening).

Some of these 'camps' are just too long to claim for anyone and have to be FCFS imo.

[Szeth]

Kiting it around a lair of some sort is allowed though, yea?

[Xeliso]

You do remember the entire clusterfuck and no one knowing who got the pearl in right? People engaged and unengaged. So yeah it ended up pingponging everywhere.

[booter]

Multiple pearls disappeared? It seems only one should - and then it is clearly that person's Ragefire.

[Werlop]

Impaler Tzilug in the Overthere

This one never needs to be killed; he never despawns following a turn-in, and multiple enchanters could do this within 1 minute.
1 mob down, 46 to go.

[Xeliso]

Multiple pearls disappeared? It seems only one should - and then it is clearly that person's Ragefire.

Me and Jaed lost pearls.

[Fazlazen]

Whats funny is that the person who ended up turning the pearl had no clue he was the one that turned it in... like it happened automatically...

What could that mean ?

[Autotune]

Clerics created this problem, clerics should solve it.
You shouldn't need GMs to come here and babysit you retards.

Fact:

Triggered mobs can't be fucked with by someone else (referring to guilds). You can't FTE someone else's mob that they spawned.

A bunch of clerics spam clicking to an empty space hoping to be the one to turn in their pearl when it is widely known that failed trades with npcs have been resulting in loss of items in the trade window is hilariously epic. What did you think would happen?

IMO, stop being assholes based on guild tags and shit might go smoother. However, you have certain clerics who like to shit talk each other and cause more problems than solve.

More facts:

IB, TMO and VD all have some shitty people in them that say one thing, but their actions speak a different way.

This thread is stupid. No one should have to spell anything else out that isn't already listed in the rules.

[Kassel]

Multiple pearls disappeared? It seems only one should - and then it is clearly that person's Ragefire.

Agree, sorry others lost their pearls, that sucks

[ElanoraBryght]

VD didn't even have clerics at Ragefire today, but thanks for Shaere.

[YendorLootmonkey]

VD didn't even have clerics at Ragefire today, but thanks for Shaere.

They had rangers to rez, dammit!

[Autotune]

didn't say you did, or are you replying to someone else?

[Xeliso]

Time to get my pearl back and sit another 100+ hours at Ragefire, okaythx.

[getsome]

Did you attempt to turn in your pearl to the KoS version of Zordak Ragefire after your enchanter charmed it?

Is that when you lost it?

[Fazlazen]

Did you attempt to turn in your pearl to the KoS version of Zordak Ragefire after your enchanter charmed it?

Is that when you lost it?

Was daliant really sleeping when he turned in the pearl ?

[Farti0001]

Cool.

[Farti0001]

Bumping this for Faglazen, most awesome french guy on server.

[Farti0001]

Time to get my pearl back and sit another 100+ hours at Ragefire, okaythx.

http://i.imgur.com/nt4UD.jpg

[Farti0001]

Was daliant really sleeping when he turned in the pearl ?

Was Faglazen really sleeping when Durison RMT'ed the whole guild bank?

[Fazlazen]

A new fan. Hey there !

[Alarti0001]

Was Faglazen really sleeping when Durison RMT'ed the whole guild bank?

Ooo a new fan! Thx for the attention!

[Fazlazen]

Get your own fans alarti !

[Motec]

Since Rage spawned, several pearls disappeared from several clerics, and Jeremy was aggroed, I guess we can congratulate him on his water sprinkler. Thanks for clearing that up. It wasn't so clear at the time.

Hi.
A GM confirmed Daliant was first aggro and handed the pearl.

Crys of lost pearls might because of me chain spawning cleric pets and chain atoning the mob etc while every TMO cleric sat there spamming an aggro'd npc whilst asking for invises, hiding etc.

Which was hilarious considering the shitfight it turned into, when I spent hours trying very hard to get an agreemend made, and to solidify this on the forums.

TMO only, and only 2 TMO clerics decided against a ragefire rotation. All of IB was behind it. It took into account the 5 people who had a serious time investment before the agreement was established, and I put myself as a minimum 10th to display I had no vested interest in making an agreement to suit myself.

Xeli did a lot to ensure we could set up an agreement, Xanthias was on board with me and willing to help write it stone solid so that we can all conform to rotation without dicking about. Yet instead, TMO wanted to spam click for a further 3 hours, and then ninjaloot ragefire.

I applaud you guys with level heads interested in playing nice and progressing the server with level heads. Its a shame you guys got let down by your own team. Now you're either going to have to approach us and VD, and taken/BDA/whatever for an agreement and I'm sure we can make it work. But first its going to take some sort of word from someone important that that sort of behaviour wont happen. You don't see us cock blocking lhranc, KSing the monkey off people who were sitting at spawn with a group for hours, etc.

We can be civil and its all gravy, this server so so much nicer to play on when I dont need to turn my monitor around when I have a smoke for fear of being trained repeatedly by tortue for instance.

And god I'd love a rotation where we all benefit.

[Xeliso]

Was daliant really sleeping when he turned in the pearl ?

Smells fishy, cause you gotta be really really idiotic to lose your pearl to Rokyl the first time and not know the giants respawn when you've been socking it the whole time.

[Alarti0001]

Cleric epic is just stupid it should just be moved to skyfire

[Ele]

Hi.
You don't see us cock blocking lhranc, KSing the monkey off people who were sitting at spawn with a group for hours, etc.

Is this the line the IB Tangrin group are feeding the rest of you?

TMO had people on the island well before any IB zoned into Field of Bone. TMO had a capable group of people ON the spawn point and within aggro radius. IB was camped up on the hill well away from the spawn point. IB did not have FTE; TMO had FTE. Tangrin aggroed TMO first, because we were ON the spawn point. TMO clearly had FTE, yet the group of people from IB engaged in an attempt to KS Tangrin (monks popping disciplines, all out nuking, mem bluring, etc).

Once Tangrin was dead, no thanks to the IB group, several of the IB members started chastising the enchanter that received the Sands and threatening that he better finish his epic soon, because, of course, IB has more of a right to it because their enchanter was further along.

Motec, if you stopped being such a sanctimonious, holy-than-thou troll and rules lawyer, people might start to take you seriously.

[Alarti0001]

Is this the line the IB Tangrin group are feeding the rest of you?

TMO had people on the island well before any IB zoned into Field of Bone. TMO had a capable group of people ON the spawn point and within aggro radius. IB was camped up on the hill well away from the spawn point. IB did not have FTE; TMO had FTE. Tangrin aggroed TMO first, because we were ON the spawn point. TMO clearly had FTE, yet the group of people from IB engaged in an attempt to KS Tangrin (monks popping disciplines, all out nuking, mem bluring, etc).

Once Tangrin was dead, no thanks to the IB group, several of the IB members started chastising the enchanter that received the Sands and threatening that he better finish his epic soon, because, of course, IB has more of a right to it because their enchanter was further along.

Motec, if you stopped being such a sanctimonious, holy-than-thou troll and rules lawyer, people might start to take you seriously.

Wait IB players make shit up? Im stunned

[Farti0001]

LOL! TMO propaganda machine is in full force here tonight!

Have any of your guildmates owned up to Sworen about which one of you shitbags got his cleric banned for ninja looting ragefire?

[Alarti0001]

:cool:LOL! TMO propaganda machine is in full force here tonight!

Have any of your guildmates owned up to Sworen about which one of you shitbags got his cleric banned for ninja looting ragefire?

Evidence sir, if you are going to pretend to be me you will have to improve you game. However, I expect great things from a troll who uses a fart joke pseudonym.

[Motec]

Lol protien was banned over I RF loot? Classic

What about the rakusha cloak ninjad from my FTE on inny??

[booter]

Sounds like you guys just need to convince your two hold outs to enter a rotation and it would all be solved. You know, like adults.

[Ele]

Have a SS of Swarws agreeing to this? Any time I saw him between Zordaks (160 hours), his line was "never".

[booter]

Swarws isn't an adult.

(No I only take screenshots of things that can be taken out of context sexually - but as far as I'm aware all IB clerics would be on board as opposed to the current clusterfuck).

[getsome]

[Thu Jan 12 21:43:51 2012] You say, 'sworen the ninja looter'
[Thu Jan 12 21:43:59 2012] You say, 'how is that orange helm'
[Thu Jan 12 21:44:06 2012] Blazinelz says, 'Sirran got me for 2054'
[Thu Jan 12 21:44:16 2012] Sworen says, 'wouldnt know some fucking faggot in m yguild wont own up to getting my cleric suspended.'

you were all dead around KC from some wipe, so i am sure multiple people saw this .

sorry i dont have a screen shot, so you can claim i doctored the logs.

[relapsee69]

The joys of being a cleric 68hours straight of a 72 hour window of nothing but clicking thin air. See you bros in a couple days to do it again /wrist /wrist

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/4186/clickclickd.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/clickclickd.jpg/)

[Autotune]

The joys of being a cleric 68hours straight of a 72 hour window of nothing but clicking thin air. See you bros in a couple days to do it again /wrist /wrist

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/4186/clickclickd.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/clickclickd.jpg/)

quoted for lulz.

[baub]

Is this the line the IB Tangrin group are feeding the rest of you?

TMO had people on the island well before any IB zoned into Field of Bone..

From I guess a couple hours before he spawned?

[Tue Jan 10 19:53:02 2012] a forest giant greenwood regards you indifferently -- You could probably win this fight.
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] ---------------------------
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] [56 Defiler] Bbop (Skeleton) <Conquest>
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] [38 Shaman] Krimzon (Iksar) <Signum Lumen>
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] [25 Necromancer] Leechess (Dark Elf)
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] [29 Monk] Faymen (Human)
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] [51 Minstrel] Semprini (Wood Elf) <Conquest>
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Baubarian <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] There are 6 players in Warsliks Wood.
[Tue Jan 10 19:54:41 2012] Your skin returns to normal.
[Tue Jan 10 19:55:05 2012] Dianamel tells the guild, 'any ports avail from kc'
[Tue Jan 10 19:55:57 2012] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:26 2012] You have entered Field of Bone.
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:31 2012] It begins to rain.
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] ---------------------------
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hateme <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Tweeky <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Solow <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Tassive <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hindu <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Adisyn <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [4 Warrior] Diro (Iksar)
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [4 Shaman] Blizzardlizard (Iksar)
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Estebahn <Vesica Dei>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Xasten <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Noobs <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [3 Monk] Kakadu (Iksar)
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Folopak <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [54 Disciple] Hache (Human) <Vesica Dei>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Adriana <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [5 Monk] Kuue (Iksar)
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Baubarian <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] There are 17 players in The Field of Bone.
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:44 2012] Players on EverQuest: TMO
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:44 2012] ---------------------------
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:44 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Adisyn <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:44 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Xasten <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:44 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Noobs <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:44 2012] There are 3 players in The Field of Bone.
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] Players on EverQuest: Champions of Truth and Justice, IB
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] ---------------------------
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hateme <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Tweeky <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Tassive <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hindu <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Adriana <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Baubarian <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] There are 6 players in The Field of Bone.

Personally I don't see that as a group of TMO that is capable of taking him down, but I encourage you to prove me wrong.

[Dravingar]

[Thu Jan 12 21:43:51 2012]
[Thu Jan 12 21:44:16 2012] Sworen says, 'wouldnt know some fucking faggot in m yguild wont own up to getting my cleric suspended.'

Hide yo wife, some lady about to get punched again.

[Ele]

From I guess a couple hours before he spawned?

[Tue Jan 10 19:53:02 2012] a forest giant greenwood regards you indifferently -- You could probably win this fight.
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] ---------------------------
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] [56 Defiler] Bbop (Skeleton) <Conquest>
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] [38 Shaman] Krimzon (Iksar) <Signum Lumen>
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] [25 Necromancer] Leechess (Dark Elf)
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] [29 Monk] Faymen (Human)
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] [51 Minstrel] Semprini (Wood Elf) <Conquest>
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Baubarian <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:53:37 2012] There are 6 players in Warsliks Wood.
[Tue Jan 10 19:54:41 2012] Your skin returns to normal.
[Tue Jan 10 19:55:05 2012] Dianamel tells the guild, 'any ports avail from kc'
[Tue Jan 10 19:55:57 2012] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:26 2012] You have entered Field of Bone.
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:31 2012] It begins to rain.
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] ---------------------------
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hateme <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Tweeky <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Solow <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Tassive <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hindu <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Adisyn <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [4 Warrior] Diro (Iksar)
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [4 Shaman] Blizzardlizard (Iksar)
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Estebahn <Vesica Dei>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Xasten <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Noobs <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [3 Monk] Kakadu (Iksar)
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Folopak <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [54 Disciple] Hache (Human) <Vesica Dei>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Adriana <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [5 Monk] Kuue (Iksar)
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Baubarian <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:41 2012] There are 17 players in The Field of Bone.
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:44 2012] Players on EverQuest: TMO
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:44 2012] ---------------------------
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:44 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Adisyn <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:44 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Xasten <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:44 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Noobs <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:44 2012] There are 3 players in The Field of Bone.
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] Players on EverQuest: Champions of Truth and Justice, IB
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] ---------------------------
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hateme <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Tweeky <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Tassive <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hindu <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Adriana <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Baubarian <Inglourious Basterds>
[Tue Jan 10 19:56:49 2012] There are 6 players in The Field of Bone.

Personally I don't see that as a group of TMO that is capable of taking him down, but I encourage you to prove me wrong.

Show me the picture of IB sitting on the spawn, it is your case to prove.

[Farti0001]

Weak TMO propaganda

http://i.imgur.com/VqADV.jpg

[Ele]

http://i.imgur.com/VqADV.jpg

How did you find that :mad:

[booter]

Should only have to be in agro range w/ a force capable, not necessarily on the pixel where it spawns. His agro range = the island.

[ownrage]

This still not moved to r&f?

[Xanthias]

This still not moved to r&f?

Kinda shocked too, but eh...

But what Motec said earlier bout a rotation is true, I'd love to write something up so the young lawyers of the server can't find a loop hole in it.

Hopefully it will happen.

[Alarti0001]

Should only have to be in agro range w/ a force capable, not necessarily on the pixel where it spawns. His agro range = the island.

Screenshot of you on guys on island with time stamp

[Bruman]

This thread is really sad guys. Some of you guys really spent that much time clicking the thin air?

And can you please keep the R&F BS to R&F? Or is it beyond salvation?

[Raavak]

This thread is really sad guys. Some of you guys really spent that much time clicking the thin air?

I fear for the lives of all after all the epic'd clerics develop carpal tunnel doing their quest.

[falkun]

carpal tunnel

Welcome to the daily life of a Bard.

[Raavak]

A GM confirmed Daliant was first aggro and handed the pearl.

Grats Daliant!

I'd love to see some sane agreement worked out. I mean, this is a game and we don't want to remove all competition because that's like not keeping score at a soccer game, but a of grapes wasting hours on end clicking an empty spot just seems irrational.

[ownrage]

ooo could it be true? people are truly getting tired of the drama? without GM's having to hold our hands?

it's 2012 people...prepare for the end of the world!

haha, jokes aside...an agreement, with sound, loop-hole-less guidance could possibly save the serve and restore numbers!

[Rogean]

Maligar in West Karanas
Maligar’s Enraged Doppleganger in West Karanas
Blackwing in Rathe Mountains
Nezekezena or Phurzicon in Burning Woods
Eldrig the Old in Skyfire Mountains
Quag Maelstrom in Ocean of Tears
Phinigel Autropos in Kedge Keep
Lord Nagafen
Zordakalicus Ragefire
Talendor
Lady Vox
Gorenaire
Trakanon
Ixiblat Fer in Burning Woods
Overking Bathezid in Chardok
Zordak Ragefire
Zordakalicus Ragefire
Black Reaver in City of Mist
Venril Sathir
Faydedar in Timorous Deep
Prince Selrach Di'zok in Chardok
Vessel Drozlin in Cabilis
Verina Tomb in Neriak
Cazel in Oasis
Spectral Librarian in Kaesora.
Felia Goldenwing in Skyfire
Wraith of Jaxion in the City of Mist
Impaler Tzilug in the Overthere
Wraith of a Shissar in the Plane of Fear
Ghost of Kindle in The Hole
a forsaken revenant in the Plane of Hate
Tangrin in the Field of Bone
Black Reavers in City of Mist
Neh'Ashirr in the City of Mist
Nezekenza, Phurzikon, and Glyton in the Burning Woods
Undertow in Kedge Keep
Innoruuk in the Plane of Hate
Slixin Klex in the Burning Wood.
Captain Rottgrime in the Overthere
Trabul Earthstrider in East Karana
Iksar betrayer in Chardok
Drolvarg pawbuster in Karnor's Castle
Gwam in Plane of Sky.
Trunt in Mines of Nurga
Vorash and Deep in Lake of Ill Omen
Cazic Thule in the Plane of Fear
Ghost of Glohnor in the Hole
High Scale Kirn in the Hole
Lord Rak in City of Mist
Enraged Golem in the Plane of Fear

I asked you for which mobs are causing confusion and/or disputes, not a list of every damn epic mob in the game...

[Rogean]

Hi.
A GM confirmed Daliant was first aggro and handed the pearl.

Well I know that's false because I'm the only one (besides nilbog, who I haven't explained the process to yet) that can even see quest logs.

Impersonating and/or lieing about what a GM says is high crimes in these parts...

[Rogean]

Lemme stop you there. Only the bolded ones are spawned via a turnin / hail. The rest may be spawned by a PHer being killed or on a timer, but are by no means spawned by a turnin or hail.

Pretty simple stuff then...


Q: What rules pertain to raid mobs that are triggered spawns?
A: If a raid mob is triggered to spawn by killing a single mob before it (Example: Statue -> Idol -> Avatar of War), the guild that spawned the mob has 20 minutes to engage it. The mob is open to any other guild on a first to engage basis once the first guild has either wiped or not engaged within the time limit.

Q: What about raid mobs that are spawned by a combination of other mobs?
A: In the case of a raid mob that is spawned by clearing an area (Example: Azarack Island in Plane of Sky), the guild that did the clearing has the same consideration as above; That is, 20 Minutes to engage and 1 attempt. In the case of multiple guilds contributing significantly to the spawn of the mob, the mob is first to engage by any of those guilds.

Since there really hasn't been a situation before of groupable mobs falling under a trigger/quest spawn, it hasn't been an issue before now that those rules were listed under the Raid Policy. However, it is simple common sense and courtesy that you don't steal someone else's spawned mob, and these rules can be considered applicable to epic quests.

If these rules have been violated, or clarification is needed on a specific situation to determine who actually spawned a mob vs killed vs looted, please send me a PM with as much detail as possible and I will resolve it this weekend.

[ElanoraBryght]

I asked you for which mobs are causing confusion and/or disputes, not a list of every damn epic mob in the game...
I'm not around for every dispute; those were the mobs that seemed most likely to spawn a dispute, if they haven't already.

Here's the ones there have been issues with so far. Some of those issues were issues before 1/2, but unresolved petitions regarding raid rules, memblur and FTE make it highly likely they will see the same issues in the near future - and that someone's epic will be affected by it.

Phinigel Autropos in Kedge Keep
Lord Nagafen
Zordakalicus Ragefire
Talendor
Zordak Ragefire
Zordakalicus Ragefire
Black Reaver in City of Mist
Venril Sathir
Faydedar in Timorous Deep
Verina Tomb in Neriak
Tangrin in the Field of Bone
Black Reavers in City of Mist
Neh'Ashirr in the City of Mist
Innoruuk in the Plane of Hate
Iksar betrayer in Chardok
Drolvarg pawbuster in Karnor's Castle
Cazic Thule in the Plane of Fear
Lord Rak in City of Mist

[Rogean]

I'm going to be coding in a mem blur immunity flag, and nilbog or I will go through all the raid mobs, including some epic mobs, to flag them for both mem blur immunity and charm immunity.

[Fazlazen]

I'm going to be coding in a mem blur immunity flag, and nilbog or I will go through all the raid mobs, including some epic mobs, to flag them for both mem blur immunity and charm immunity.

Mem blur was a viable tactic on live when an encounter was going sour. Hide most of the raid force, have an enchanter mem flux the mob and you just saved yourself a good chunk of recovery time, not so much in kunark but in velious, you can see a wipe happening well ahead of time and its where imo mem flux really becomes useful.

[Shiftin]

Maybe if you guys stopped mem blurring raid mobs he wouldn't have to? It's not like this is a new problem. It's been going on since october when a tmo enchanter mem blurred faydedar on a pull so you could claim FTE after taking it off our bard who tagged it before a single TMO was in TD.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Mem blur was a viable tactic on live when an encounter was going sour. Hide most of the raid force, have an enchanter mem flux the mob and you just saved yourself a good chunk of recovery time.

Then I suggest you be pro and don't let the encounter go sour. Blame the loss of mem blur on the douches using it to interfere on raids.

[Ele]

I'm going to be coding in a mem blur immunity flag, and nilbog or I will go through all the raid mobs, including some epic mobs, to flag them for both mem blur immunity and charm immunity.

http://i.imgur.com/f8Mz5.gif

[Rasah]

I'm going to be coding in a mem blur immunity flag, and nilbog or I will go through all the raid mobs, including some epic mobs, to flag them for both mem blur immunity and charm immunity.

That's probably making it harder than it needs to be. Just go through the logs and ban the character from Guild B that memblurs the mob engaged by Guild A. You'd probably only have to do it twice before this behavior stops.

[inyane]

I'm going to be coding in a mem blur immunity flag, and nilbog or I will go through all the raid mobs, including some epic mobs, to flag them for both mem blur immunity and charm immunity.

I don't remember this being classic...

[Daldaen]

Nor was the hoop nerf but this is why we can't have nice things.

Children unable to wait their turn.

[Autotune]

wtb simulated server maint with full server re-pops. More mobs to go around = less fighting for said mobs imo.

Scarcity is what causes most of these problems.

[Bruman]

wtb simulated server maint with full server re-pops. More mobs to go around = less fighting for said mobs imo.

Scarcity is what causes most of these problems.

I know we've all been round-and-round about these, but it's scarcity combined with grown children.

The server has a much higher hardcore/raid base than live, combined with much slower content releases. The way to adjust the server is to react directly to what's different.

Simulated patch days, no variance, shorter respawn times on raid / epic mobs, and less rarity on quest mobs is the proper adjustment. But then people would feel their pixels aren't as special. So whatever.

[YendorLootmonkey]

That's probably making it harder than it needs to be. Just go through the logs and ban the character from Guild B that memblurs the mob engaged by Guild A. You'd probably only have to do it twice before this behavior stops.

This.

[ElanoraBryght]

There are people that have more than 20 accounts with chars 50+. I don't mean access to that many accounts - that many accounts that are their own, handed to them by friends / guild mates that quit.

It doesn't hurt these people to get a suspension, they just play another char for a week. A week on one of many "alts" that doesn't have to miss raids isn't even a punishment. If you listen to some of them talk, they think even an outright ban on the account is considered worth it to get an edge up on a raid mob and their 30 minutes of RnF glory.

An actual IP suspension or ban may slow some of them down, but new IP's are pretty easy to get.

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Cyrano]

Me and Jaed lost pearls.

Maybe if you guys hadn't been pricks who thought you should get a fair shot instead of making a list with the clerics who had pearls and presence at RF camp first that wouldn't have happened.

Why is it so hard to be fucking amicable and agree to a list? We all knew RF was going to be a huge bottleneck coming in.

[Ele]

Maybe if you guys hadn't been pricks who thought you should get a fair shot instead of making a list with the clerics who had pearls and presence at RF camp first that wouldn't have happened.

Why is it so hard to be fucking amicable and agree to a list? We all knew RF was going to be a huge bottleneck coming in.

Hold up there cowboy. The clerics that were at Ragefire have discussed this more than you think.

[Rasah]

It doesn't hurt these people to get a suspension, they just play another char for a week.

That's why I said BAN. The rule should be not to do it. Breaking said rule should hurt. And if the same guild breaks the rule more than once because they have extra toons to do it, there should be a week long raiding suspension for that guild.

I also think that if the guilds would stop keeping score in R&F of who killed what raid mobs that week, the server wouldn't be so disgraceful.

[Rais]

A Ban won't work. Some people have friend's accounts given to them they will do these things on. Get a new IP and play again. It's easy to do so.

Hold the guild leadership accountable for the actions of the guild. Suspend the Officers and Raid ban them for 2 weeks. Happens again, make the ban on officers 100% and guild banned for a month. That will get people to pull their heads out of their asses.

[Bruman]

If RnF was disbanded altogether things wouldn't be so disgraceful. It's nothing but a cesspit of children and troll accounts, that feeds into people's attitudes in game and into other forums. The forum mods here can't keep up with the activity to keep general discussion clean.

Keeping not 1, but 2 RnF forums, just encourages the behavior. Having it all be anon just makes it even worse (even though apparently most people know who-is-what troll account).

[Nirgon]

I think you're absolutely right in saying forum accounts should be tied to highest level character on an account some how. Actions taken against players on the forums I think should effect them in game also.

[booter]

If RnF was disbanded altogether things wouldn't be so disgraceful. It's nothing but a cesspit of children and troll accounts, that feeds into people's attitudes in game and into other forums. The forum mods here can't keep up with the activity to keep general discussion clean.

This is more true than most people realize. Anecdotal, but no good ever came of any guild/game forum that had a sub-forum specifically for flaming. It only ever caused problems. Probably something psychological to it but I'm no expert.

[Metallikus]

A Ban won't work. Some people have friend's accounts given to them they will do these things on. Get a new IP and play again. It's easy to do so.

Hold the guild leadership accountable for the actions of the guild. Suspend the Officers and Raid ban them for 2 weeks. Happens again, make the ban on officers 100% and guild banned for a month. That will get people to pull their heads out of their asses.


Why isn't this already happening? There are guilds playing by the server rules and there are guilds getting away with murder. Teach the jerks a lesson.

TMO raid interfered blatantly by memblurring Talendor at 2% and wiping IB /VD. There is outright proof of that occurance and nothing has happened even tho the petition process was followed to the tee. Any argument to refute FTE couldn't matter less since its not TMOs job to teach lessons or police any wrong doing claims.

TMO kill stole Inny when it was posted everywhere that IB / VD had first to engage. The loot was taken by TMO and the petition has long since been ignored.

Those are the wildly obvious ignored petitions that should have been resolved much less responded to sooner than months later.

[Autotune]

Why isn't this already happening? There are guilds playing by the server rules and there are guilds getting away with murder. Teach the jerks a lesson.

TMO raid interfered blatantly by memblurring Talendor at 2% and wiping IB /VD. There is outright proof of that occurance and nothing has happened even tho the petition process was followed to the tee. Any argument to refute FTE couldn't matter less since its not TMOs job to teach lessons or police any wrong doing claims.

TMO kill stole Inny when it was posted everywhere that IB / VD had first to engage. The loot was taken by TMO and the petition has long since been ignored.

Those are the wildly obvious ignored petitions that should have been resolved much less responded to sooner than months later.

Amelinda watched IB/VD KS phinny after she already stated that the mob was a camp and TMO proved that we were camping it long before IB/VD were in zone.

IB/VD ignored amelinda, engaged phinny while she watched and then looted phinny.

If we are going back to the "omg every wrong that's been done" I want all the IB/VD on phinny's hate list that night to be suspended as well.

There are some others I have from VD and from IB, just let me know if this is getting looked into and we'll just go from there, k ;)

[Nirgon]

Petition forum? See if it gets views? That's how I've learned if it's been looked at.

[Metallikus]

Amelinda watched IB/VD KS phinny after she already stated that the mob was a camp and TMO proved that we were camping it long before IB/VD were in zone.

IB/VD ignored amelinda, engaged phinny while she watched and then looted phinny.

If we are going back to the "omg every wrong that's been done" I want all the IB/VD on phinny's hate list that night to be suspended as well.

There are some others I have from VD and from IB, just let me know if this is getting looked into and we'll just go from there, k ;)

She immediately took the loot and dealt it to TMO. This was listed as a raid mob and first to engage was the rules in prescedence. No suspension needed here since amelinda changed the rules on the fly.

I'm talking about un resolved issues in which loot is not where it belongs. I'm talking about everytime we enter a zone with TMO, we are getting trained with no repercussions.

[Werlop]

Amelinda watched IB/VD KS phinny after she already stated that the mob was a camp and TMO proved that we were camping it long before IB/VD were in zone.

IB/VD ignored amelinda, engaged phinny while she watched and then looted phinny.

If we are going back to the "omg every wrong that's been done" I want all the IB/VD on phinny's hate list that night to be suspended as well.

There are some others I have from VD and from IB, just let me know if this is getting looked into and we'll just go from there, k ;)

Phinny is a group mob. Your guild petitioned and got it changed. No one stole it from you.

[Metallikus]

Amelinda watched IB/VD KS phinny after she already stated that the mob was a camp and TMO proved that we were camping it long before IB/VD were in zone.

IB/VD ignored amelinda, engaged phinny while she watched and then looted phinny.

If we are going back to the "omg every wrong that's been done" I want all the IB/VD on phinny's hate list that night to be suspended as well.

There are some others I have from VD and from IB, just let me know if this is getting looked into and we'll just go from there, k ;)

It's really funny that the proof you were camping phinny was by having a druid and bard at the spawn hours before pop. That is not even close to the force necessary to claim that as a camped mob. Were you actively clearing anything around phinny? I'm sure the seahorses stood there all day untouched. What constitutes that as a campable mob when it was clearly written in as a raid mob on the Raid Play Nice Policy post. It was changed to a campable mob because TMO facebooked a GM out of bed when IB/VD showed up with an actual force capable of killing phinny as compared to a TMO druid/bard combo claiming it camped.

[Autotune]

Phinny is a group mob. Your guild petitioned and got it changed. No one stole it from you.

yeah, a group mob that TMO was camping. It wasn't changed that night, Phinny has been a group mob since long before epics.


It's really funny that the proof you were camping phinny was by having a druid and bard at the spawn hours before pop. That is not even close to the force necessary to claim that as a camped mob. Were you actively clearing anything around phinny? I'm sure the seahorses stood there all day untouched. What constitutes that as a campable mob when it was clearly written in as a raid mob on the Raid Play Nice Policy post. It was changed to a campable mob because TMO facebooked a GM out of bed when IB/VD showed up with an actual force capable of killing phinny as compared to a TMO druid/bard combo claiming it camped.

it's been camped long before epics, you'd know this if you weren't an idiot. Groups of mages/necros/petclasses have been claiming phinny as a camp since before kunark. TMO had logs, i have Screenshots, showing TMO as the only people in the lair, where our pets are, where IB/VD showed up later, where they parked their pets (yes, identified with /pet who in the ss) and so on. So yea, I have the evidence.

There was no need to facebook a GM, the fact she showed up and reiterated it to a group of retards is beside the fact. IB/VD trying to stake 15man claim to a group mob however, is hilarious. Want to try again?

[Metallikus]

There was no need to facebook a GM, the fact she showed up and reiterated it to a group of retards is beside the fact. IB/VD trying to stake 15man claim to a group mob however, is hilarious. Want to try again?

Here is my point: You didn't have to submit a petition with all your evidence and have it ignored for months before you got your rightful epic peice had it dropped did you?
Well for the Inny kill that TMO KS'd and looted an earth staff that should of rightfully gone to one of our members - our guildy is patiently waiting around for a decision that doesn't seem to be coming from the petition that should have been resolved. I mean someone even posted Amelinda's proof of FTE. Should they have? - no, but apparently it got leaked.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Then have the rules changed to make it a group mob.

Right now, the rules say it's a raid mob, as it's included in the server raid rules. So that's what people who would like to follow the rules will go by, and then become frustrated when someone says "Oh, but this is different." And then a member of staff rules in their favor. And the rules never get changed, so no one knows what the hell to do.

And even better, next time a group of people use that precedent to claim a mob as an exception, they have a non-zero percent chance of being ruled against based the way the rules are laid out. Which is what they were going by the first time when the exception was made.

What is the point of having the server raid rules out for everyone to read if everyone is just picking and choosing which parts of them they want to follow?

Change the raid rules to drop Phinny off the list, IMO. Or use them consistently and without exception when making a judgement call.

[Alarti0001]

Why isn't this already happening? There are guilds playing by the server rules and there are guilds getting away with murder. Teach the jerks a lesson.

TMO raid interfered blatantly by memblurring Talendor at 2% and wiping IB /VD. There is outright proof of that occurance and nothing has happened even tho the petition process was followed to the tee. Any argument to refute FTE couldn't matter less since its not TMOs job to teach lessons or police any wrong doing claims.

TMO kill stole Inny when it was posted everywhere that IB / VD had first to engage. The loot was taken by TMO and the petition has long since been ignored.

Those are the wildly obvious ignored petitions that should have been resolved much less responded to sooner than months later.

Their is evidence against you....learn not to trust supremacy he always leaves out important details

[Autotune]

Then have the rules changed to make it a group mob.

Right now, the rules say it's a raid mob, as it's included in the server raid rules. So that's what people who would like to follow the rules will go by, and then become frustrated when someone says "Oh, but this is different." And then a member of staff rules in their favor. And the rules never get changed, so no one knows what the hell to do.

And even better, next time a group of people use that precedent to claim a mob as an exception, they have a non-zero percent chance of being ruled against based the way the rules are laid out. Which is what they were going by the first time when the exception was made.

What is the point of having the server raid rules out for everyone to read if everyone is just picking and choosing which parts of them they want to follow?

Change the raid rules to drop Phinny off the list, IMO. Or use them consistently and without exception when making a judgement call.

It's been claimed as a group mob for over a year. Anyone that has done it, knows it. Anyone who did not know it that night, was made more than well aware of it before it spawned by a senior guide. I know you are more than aware of pet classes downing phinny for the past year+ with a single group (often much less), you're just rule lawyering for your own benefit.

The raid rules you love to quote are old as dirt, no ones fault but the over worked staffs, so blame them if you want.

[Rais]

Then if its a single group mob and has been ran that way, how can a bard and druid claim that camp. They can't clear, and they surely can't duo it. Then how is it awarded their camp? It's even falling back on " If you can kill the mob in question with your force" is the issue and how it was ruled.

So if we go by how the precedence on this is, a bard and druid can camp Phini and claim camp whenever, yet it's 100% fact they can't kill him. That is the issue. I also know it was considered a raid mob on this site a year ago and that is outdated.

I will tell you how it would/could have went down

TMO claims Phini with 1 Druid 1 bard. This duo can't kill him whatsoever. Ruled in favor and awarded his spawn due to being there first, even though they can't kill him, and IB/VD have over 10 people.

Or

VD Necro/Mage duo is preped to kill him. Group of 10 TMO zone in and petition it's a raid encounter and awarded to TMO.

It's happened at Fire Giants and King Tranix. Decisions were changed on the spot two different times.

I will agree from what my understanding is when Amelinda was told TMO was there, and was getting shit from everyone and she said fuck it, people who were here first got it that should have been the end of it. I don't blame her for how she ruled, I just think it set's a bad precedence going forward. I do agree once Amelinda said it was TMO's anyone from VD who still engaged was wrong, I stated it in guild chat and in our own forums.

tl/dr

TMO didn't have the force there to claim it due to Druid and Bard not being able to duo him. VD force did. Ruling went against Raid and Group rules that your force have to be able to kill said target. IB/VD members had loot removed within 24 hours if not sooner. Yet your guild engaged on a inny who had FTE by IB/VD and ninja looted, and nothing has been done about it in like two weeks.

If things are going to play out, play them out on equal grounds.

[Werlop]

The raid rules you love to quote are old as dirt, no ones fault but the over worked staffs, so blame them if you want.

What rules do YOU follow if the server raid rules are so old that they are obsolete?

[Slippery]

Bunch of lies



rule lawyer much ?

[Autotune]

Then if its a single group mob and has been ran that way, how can a bard and druid claim that camp. They can't clear, and they surely can't duo it. Then how is it awarded their camp? It's even falling back on " If you can kill the mob in question with your force" is the issue and how it was ruled.

So if we go by how the precedence on this is, a bard and druid can camp Phini and claim camp whenever, yet it's 100% fact they can't kill him. That is the issue. I also know it was considered a raid mob on this site a year ago and that is outdated.

I will tell you how it would/could have went down

TMO claims Phini with 1 Druid 1 bard. This duo can't kill him whatsoever. Ruled in favor and awarded his spawn due to being there first, even though they can't kill him, and IB/VD have over 10 people.

Or

VD Necro/Mage duo is preped to kill him. Group of 10 TMO zone in and petition it's a raid encounter and awarded to TMO.

It's happened at Fire Giants and King Tranix. Decisions were changed on the spot two different times.

I will agree from what my understanding is when Amelinda was told TMO was there, and was getting shit from everyone and she said fuck it, people who were here first got it that should have been the end of it. I don't blame her for how she ruled, I just think it set's a bad precedence going forward. I do agree once Amelinda said it was TMO's anyone from VD who still engaged was wrong, I stated it in guild chat and in our own forums.

tl/dr

TMO didn't have the force there to claim it due to Druid and Bard not being able to duo him. VD force did. Ruling went against Raid and Group rules that your force have to be able to kill said target.

Idk what you retards are talking about, but here, let me help you with my logs of that night.

[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Zephyrus <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Arrisard <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Thehero
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Stealin <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] There are 8 players in Kedge Keep.


[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Arrisard <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Thehero
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Stealin <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] There are 8 players in Kedge Keep.

[Thu Jan 05 00:21:09 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:09 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Franswa <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:09 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:09 2012] There are 2 players in Kedge Keep.
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Caseytatum <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Franswa <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Arrisard <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Thehero
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Stealin <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] There are 10 players in Kedge Keep.

[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hindu <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Baubarian <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Dexs <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Veloci <Inglourious Basterds> LFG
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Franswa <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] There are 6 players in Kedge Keep.

[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Arrisard <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Thehero
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Stealin <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] There are 7 players in Kedge Keep.

[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hindu <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Baubarian <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Dexs <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Veloci <Inglourious Basterds> LFG
[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Franswa <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] There are 6 players in Kedge Keep.

[Thu Jan 05 00:28:13 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:13 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Mephost <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:13 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Caseytatum <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:13 2012] There are 2 players in Kedge Keep.
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hindu <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Baubarian <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Dexs <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Veloci <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Franswa <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] AFK [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] There are 6 players in Kedge Keep.


[Thu Jan 05 00:39:10 2012] Amelinda shouts, 'okay so who has fraps showing their group was here at phinny first?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:39:19 2012] You shout, 'i have screenshots and logs'
[Thu Jan 05 00:39:25 2012] Mephost shouts, '15 people?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:39:30 2012] Mephost shouts, 'this is a raid mob'
[Thu Jan 05 00:39:39 2012] Jynira shouts, 'its a 1 grp mob >.>'
[Thu Jan 05 00:39:45 2012] Daliant shouts, 'duo mob'
[Thu Jan 05 00:39:53 2012] Matalus shouts, 'solo mob in PoP'
[Thu Jan 05 00:40:00 2012] You shout, 'i've done tthis with 4 people since before kunark lol'
[Thu Jan 05 00:40:05 2012] Amelinda shouts, 'it's a groupable mob.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:40:21 2012] Matalus shouts, 'considered raid encounter, 15 people wru'
[Thu Jan 05 00:40:32 2012] Veloci shouts, 'I have logs of FTE on Talendor 2 weeks ago and theyre getting ignored can I get FTE on that petition queue?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:40:40 2012] Amelinda shouts, 'at this point it's 1 groupable.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:40:42 2012] You shout, 'young rules lawyers butthurt lol'
[Thu Jan 05 00:41:00 2012] Amelinda shouts, 'supremacy QFT - you know i don't handle that.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:41:10 2012] Veloci shouts, 'Im still going to rage!'
[Thu Jan 05 00:41:30 2012] Veloci shouts, 'they should be on raid suspension for interferance just like I was =)'
[Thu Jan 05 00:41:32 2012] Amelinda shouts, 'well this is a groupable mob and w hoever had a group here first to kill it gets the spawn.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:41:47 2012] You shout, '/bye IB/VD'
[Thu Jan 05 00:41:58 2012] Matalus shouts, 'wtb logs/ss's'
[Thu Jan 05 00:42:20 2012] Jynira shouts, '30k sound about right?'

[Thu Jan 05 00:43:23 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 22:48:43 2012] You have entered Kedge Keep. [Wed Jan 04 22:48:50 2012] Players on EverQuest: [Wed Jan 04 22:48:50 2012] --------------------------- [Wed Jan 04 22:48:50 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order>'
[Thu Jan 05 00:43:27 2012] Daliant shouts, 'should be best KS group wins, thought we were emulating classic?'

[Thu Jan 05 00:43:30 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 22:48:50 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 22:48:50 2012] [60 Hierophant] Fountree (Wood Elf) <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 22:48:50 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 22:48:50 2012] There are 4 players in Kedge Keep.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:43:47 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] --------------------------- [Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <Afkite Masters> [Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Speedling <Vesica Dei> [Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order>'
[Thu Jan 05 00:43:53 2012] Jynira shouts, 'wheres r 30k?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:43:55 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] [60 Hierophant] Fountree (Wood Elf) <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] There are 6 players in Kedge Keep.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:44:04 2012] Jynira shouts, 'should we do it by each player or u cheap?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:44:10 2012] Veloci shouts, 'Fake logs - Fountree is in there twice'
[Thu Jan 05 00:44:10 2012] You shout, 'RED TEXT CRITS RETARDS FOR 30k'

[Thu Jan 05 00:44:21 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] [59 Preserver] Daldaen (Half Elf) <Altered Vision> [Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <Afkite Masters> [Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Speedling <Vesica Dei> [Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order>'

[Thu Jan 05 00:44:29 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] [60 Hierophant] Fountree (Wood Elf) <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] There are 7 players in Kedge Keep.'

[Thu Jan 05 00:44:51 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Arrisard <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Thehero [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] AFK [60 Hierophant] Fountree (Wood Elf) <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [59 Preserver] Daldaen (Half Elf) <Altered Vision> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Loly <The Mystical Order>'
[Thu Jan 05 00:44:58 2012] a shimmering sailfin begins to cast a spell.
[Thu Jan 05 00:44:59 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <Afkite Masters> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Speedling <Vesica Dei> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] There are 10 players in Kedge Keep.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:45:05 2012] Veloci says out of character, 'technically i think that 52 mage and that anonymous have a better chance of duoing this than a bard and druid'
[Thu Jan 05 00:45:07 2012] Canker says out of character, 'I can keep going all the way down till now if you want'
[Thu Jan 05 00:45:17 2012] You say out of character, 'keep going imo'
[Thu Jan 05 00:45:19 2012] Mephost says out of character, 'so a bard and druid can duo phinny?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:45:36 2012] You say out of character, 'you weren't in zone so it dernt matter Mr. Derp'
[Thu Jan 05 00:45:41 2012] Veloci says out of character, 'NERF FOUNTREE AND DROLGURD'
[Thu Jan 05 00:46:38 2012] You shout, '[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] --------------------------- [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Caseytatum <Vesica Dei> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Franswa <Inglourious Basterds> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Arrisard <The Mystical Order> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order>'
[Thu Jan 05 00:46:40 2012] You shout, '[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <The Mystical Order> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Thehero [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Stealin <The Mystical Order> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] There are 10 players in Kedge Keep.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:46:55 2012] Baubarian says out of character, 'use a different channel pls'
[Thu Jan 05 00:46:58 2012] You shout, 'suck it'
[Thu Jan 05 00:47:02 2012] Baubarian says out of character, 'red is so hostile'
[Thu Jan 05 00:47:23 2012] Veloci says out of character, 'ya where the blue social channel?'

This is the /who of VD and IB a few mins before the engage to see who all were going to engage

[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Adriana <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Daliant <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hindu <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Baubarian <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Dexs <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Veloci <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Franswa <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] AFK [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] There are 8 players in Kedge Keep.
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:02 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:02 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Zephyrus <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Matalus <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Mephost <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Caseytatum <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:02 2012] There are 4 players in Kedge Keep.

some /say before spawn too

[Thu Jan 05 00:55:58 2012] Amelinda says, 'so you are telling me that vd has had a 15 man crew here to kill this every time?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:56:04 2012] Amelinda says, 'since epics?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:56:12 2012] Veloci says, 'nope but no one else was here for them'
[Thu Jan 05 00:56:33 2012] Chrome says, 'Raid Mob FTE'
[Thu Jan 05 00:56:42 2012] You say, 'lol look at the butthurts'
[Thu Jan 05 00:56:54 2012] Amelinda says, 'here is my issue.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:56:58 2012] Hindu says, 'you realize the shits not gonna drop'
[Thu Jan 05 00:57:07 2012] Amelinda says, 'i already said that phinny is 1 groupable'
[Thu Jan 05 00:57:08 2012] You say, 'you realize ur a fag?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:57:14 2012] Amelinda says, 'and i get a shit ton of fucking "feedback" from IB'
[Thu Jan 05 00:57:16 2012] Amelinda says, 'in tells'
[Thu Jan 05 00:57:37 2012] Amelinda says, 'do you have any idea how angry that makes me?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:58:01 2012] Amelinda says, 'when the feedback is basically 'We are going to take the fact that you are saying phinny is basically 1 groupable and paint just about every other mob with it''
[Thu Jan 05 00:58:22 2012] Amelinda says, 'when i'm not talking about any mob but phinny.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:58:33 2012] Amelinda says, 'i asked rogean what his opinion is but he hasn't gotten back to me yet.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:58:44 2012] Amelinda says, 'i almost didn't log into the server tonight because of this bullshit.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:58:51 2012] You say, 'phinny has been 1 groupable since long before, it hasn't been considered a raid target in over a year'
[Thu Jan 05 00:59:09 2012] You say, 'IB confirmed rule lawyering because they showed up late'
[Thu Jan 05 00:59:21 2012] Amelinda says, 'shut up stealin.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:59:26 2012] Thehero tells you, 'pwnd'
[Thu Jan 05 00:59:27 2012] Hindu says, 'i am in law school i cant help it'


and finally phinny spawns at

[Thu Jan 05 01:00:03 2012] Jebobn tells you, 'Attacking Phinigel Autropos Master.

So how about that druid and bard when you guys showed up huh?

[Fazlazen]

Game, set, match

[Autotune]

I have SS's showing our pets on phinny's spawn point
SS's of IB parking pets on top after.
SS's of where IB/VD set up camp with their pets.

Can post those up as well if you want. with time stamps from my log to correspond.

And to the person about raid rules, i follow raid raids for all mobs that staff and server consider raid targets.

If players have camped a raid target repeatedly over the past with a single group or less and have all demoted him from a raid target to a camp, who am i to change it. I'm not the one using a raid quote from August 2010 for a mob in Jan 2012. Things change, this one didn't just happen yesterday.

You can continue to rule lawyer tho, it amuses me greatly how you continue to contradict yourselves.

[booter]

Or we can get back on topic about the two pending petitions where the loot is still in the wrong place (Inny, Tal), and not just try to scuttle those under the rug.

Game, set, match

http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-allears.gif

[YendorLootmonkey]

Raid System

Players are encouraged to create whatever agreements and rules they wish, however, if there is a dispute, these server rules are the rules which will be binding and enforced by the GMs.

Spawn Variance

A variance of +/- 48 hours is in effect on the following: Lord Nagafen, Lady Vox, Cazic-Thule, Innoruuk.
A variance of +/- 24 hours is in effect on the following: Dracoliche, Maestro of Rancor.
*Phinigel will remain a static 12 hour spawn.

^^ actual rule

It's been claimed as a group mob for over a year. Anyone that has done it, knows it. Anyone who did not know it that night, was made more than well aware of it before it spawned by a senior guide. I know you are more than aware of pet classes downing phinny for the past year+ with a single group (often much less)

^^ rules lawyering (i.e. blah blah i know what the rule says, but... blah blah)

[Autotune]

^^ actual rule



^^ rules lawyering (i.e. blah blah i know what the rule says, but... blah blah)

There is Mr. YendorRuleLawyer. Quoting stuff from August 2010 that has been done differently all thru 2011 prior to epics. Keep lawyering old rules big homie, I know your mages have called phinny camps in the past as well as 90% of the other mages on the server.

[YendorLootmonkey]

There is Mr. YendorRuleLawyer. Quoting stuff from August 2010 that has been done differently all thru 2011 prior to epics. Keep lawyering old rules big homie, I know your mages have called phinny camps in the past as well as 90% of the other mages on the server.

How is it "rules-lawyering" to have the simple expectation that people abide by the rules publicly listed?

Taking the publicly listed rules, stating how they're outdated, there's other precedents for it being a group mob, etc, etc... that's rules-lawyering, buddy. It's amusing that rules-lawyering is so second-nature for you, you don't even realize you're doing it. :) LOL

[Autotune]

How is it "rules-lawyering" to have the simple expectation that people abide by the rules publicly listed?

Taking the publicly listed rules, stating how they're outdated, there's other precedents for it being a group mob, etc, etc... that's rules-lawyering, buddy. It's amusing that rules-lawyering is so second-nature for you, you don't even realize you're doing it. :) LOL

What you want to do is take power from small groups and allow large guilds to come and shit all over them for something they've been doing for a year. Doing this you, quote a rule that is from 2010. That is rule lawyering.

I don't care if phinny gets put back as a raid target (even tho he isn't), I'm in a large raiding guild that can shit over the little guys too. Do I want it to be like that? no.

So again, Yendor RuleLawyer, keep fighting for your right to shit over what people have been doing for the past year while bring up an outdated rule. I'm sure those people in small guilds who have been camping Phinny that can't muster a force of 15 people to sock for 4hrs straight will love you for it.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I personally don't care what the actual rule is. I care that it is consistently followed and disputes are handled based on that rule, so that everyone's expectations are the same. But right now, the rule is that Phinny is listed as a raid target.

Ask staff to knock it off the list.

And when Faydedar becomes a one-group mob for one or two guilds, and you want it removed from the raid target list so the other guilds can't compete for it because they might require 3-4 groups to kill it, go ahead and ask for that too. Because it's all about what is in the best interests of your guild, right?

[Alarti0001]

Idk what you retards are talking about, but here, let me help you with my logs of that night.

[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Zephyrus <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Arrisard <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Thehero
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Stealin <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:01:02 2012] There are 8 players in Kedge Keep.


[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Arrisard <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Thehero
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Stealin <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:11:38 2012] There are 8 players in Kedge Keep.

[Thu Jan 05 00:21:09 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:09 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Franswa <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:09 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:09 2012] There are 2 players in Kedge Keep.
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Caseytatum <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Franswa <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Arrisard <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Thehero
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Stealin <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] There are 10 players in Kedge Keep.

[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hindu <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Baubarian <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Dexs <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Veloci <Inglourious Basterds> LFG
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Franswa <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:30 2012] There are 6 players in Kedge Keep.

[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Arrisard <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Thehero
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Stealin <The Mystical Order>
[Thu Jan 05 00:24:39 2012] There are 7 players in Kedge Keep.

[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hindu <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Baubarian <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Dexs <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Veloci <Inglourious Basterds> LFG
[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Franswa <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:25:22 2012] There are 6 players in Kedge Keep.

[Thu Jan 05 00:28:13 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:13 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Mephost <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:13 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Caseytatum <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:13 2012] There are 2 players in Kedge Keep.
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hindu <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Baubarian <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Dexs <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Veloci <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Franswa <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] AFK [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:28:19 2012] There are 6 players in Kedge Keep.


[Thu Jan 05 00:39:10 2012] Amelinda shouts, 'okay so who has fraps showing their group was here at phinny first?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:39:19 2012] You shout, 'i have screenshots and logs'
[Thu Jan 05 00:39:25 2012] Mephost shouts, '15 people?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:39:30 2012] Mephost shouts, 'this is a raid mob'
[Thu Jan 05 00:39:39 2012] Jynira shouts, 'its a 1 grp mob >.>'
[Thu Jan 05 00:39:45 2012] Daliant shouts, 'duo mob'
[Thu Jan 05 00:39:53 2012] Matalus shouts, 'solo mob in PoP'
[Thu Jan 05 00:40:00 2012] You shout, 'i've done tthis with 4 people since before kunark lol'
[Thu Jan 05 00:40:05 2012] Amelinda shouts, 'it's a groupable mob.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:40:21 2012] Matalus shouts, 'considered raid encounter, 15 people wru'
[Thu Jan 05 00:40:32 2012] Veloci shouts, 'I have logs of FTE on Talendor 2 weeks ago and theyre getting ignored can I get FTE on that petition queue?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:40:40 2012] Amelinda shouts, 'at this point it's 1 groupable.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:40:42 2012] You shout, 'young rules lawyers butthurt lol'
[Thu Jan 05 00:41:00 2012] Amelinda shouts, 'supremacy QFT - you know i don't handle that.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:41:10 2012] Veloci shouts, 'Im still going to rage!'
[Thu Jan 05 00:41:30 2012] Veloci shouts, 'they should be on raid suspension for interferance just like I was =)'
[Thu Jan 05 00:41:32 2012] Amelinda shouts, 'well this is a groupable mob and w hoever had a group here first to kill it gets the spawn.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:41:47 2012] You shout, '/bye IB/VD'
[Thu Jan 05 00:41:58 2012] Matalus shouts, 'wtb logs/ss's'
[Thu Jan 05 00:42:20 2012] Jynira shouts, '30k sound about right?'

[Thu Jan 05 00:43:23 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 22:48:43 2012] You have entered Kedge Keep. [Wed Jan 04 22:48:50 2012] Players on EverQuest: [Wed Jan 04 22:48:50 2012] --------------------------- [Wed Jan 04 22:48:50 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order>'
[Thu Jan 05 00:43:27 2012] Daliant shouts, 'should be best KS group wins, thought we were emulating classic?'

[Thu Jan 05 00:43:30 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 22:48:50 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 22:48:50 2012] [60 Hierophant] Fountree (Wood Elf) <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 22:48:50 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 22:48:50 2012] There are 4 players in Kedge Keep.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:43:47 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] --------------------------- [Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <Afkite Masters> [Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Speedling <Vesica Dei> [Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order>'
[Thu Jan 05 00:43:53 2012] Jynira shouts, 'wheres r 30k?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:43:55 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] [60 Hierophant] Fountree (Wood Elf) <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 22:58:51 2012] There are 6 players in Kedge Keep.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:44:04 2012] Jynira shouts, 'should we do it by each player or u cheap?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:44:10 2012] Veloci shouts, 'Fake logs - Fountree is in there twice'
[Thu Jan 05 00:44:10 2012] You shout, 'RED TEXT CRITS RETARDS FOR 30k'

[Thu Jan 05 00:44:21 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] [59 Preserver] Daldaen (Half Elf) <Altered Vision> [Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <Afkite Masters> [Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Speedling <Vesica Dei> [Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order>'

[Thu Jan 05 00:44:29 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] [60 Hierophant] Fountree (Wood Elf) <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:12:46 2012] There are 7 players in Kedge Keep.'

[Thu Jan 05 00:44:51 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Arrisard <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Thehero [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] AFK [60 Hierophant] Fountree (Wood Elf) <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [59 Preserver] Daldaen (Half Elf) <Altered Vision> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Loly <The Mystical Order>'
[Thu Jan 05 00:44:58 2012] a shimmering sailfin begins to cast a spell.
[Thu Jan 05 00:44:59 2012] Canker shouts, '[Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <Afkite Masters> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Speedling <Vesica Dei> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order> [Wed Jan 04 23:37:57 2012] There are 10 players in Kedge Keep.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:45:05 2012] Veloci says out of character, 'technically i think that 52 mage and that anonymous have a better chance of duoing this than a bard and druid'
[Thu Jan 05 00:45:07 2012] Canker says out of character, 'I can keep going all the way down till now if you want'
[Thu Jan 05 00:45:17 2012] You say out of character, 'keep going imo'
[Thu Jan 05 00:45:19 2012] Mephost says out of character, 'so a bard and druid can duo phinny?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:45:36 2012] You say out of character, 'you weren't in zone so it dernt matter Mr. Derp'
[Thu Jan 05 00:45:41 2012] Veloci says out of character, 'NERF FOUNTREE AND DROLGURD'
[Thu Jan 05 00:46:38 2012] You shout, '[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] --------------------------- [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Caseytatum <Vesica Dei> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Franswa <Inglourious Basterds> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Drolgurd <The Mystical Order> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Arrisard <The Mystical Order> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jynira <The Mystical Order>'
[Thu Jan 05 00:46:40 2012] You shout, '[Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Canker <The Mystical Order> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [52 Elementalist] Zakeef (Erudite) <The Mystical Order> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Thehero [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Stealin <The Mystical Order> [Thu Jan 05 00:21:14 2012] There are 10 players in Kedge Keep.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:46:55 2012] Baubarian says out of character, 'use a different channel pls'
[Thu Jan 05 00:46:58 2012] You shout, 'suck it'
[Thu Jan 05 00:47:02 2012] Baubarian says out of character, 'red is so hostile'
[Thu Jan 05 00:47:23 2012] Veloci says out of character, 'ya where the blue social channel?'

This is the /who of VD and IB a few mins before the engage to see who all were going to engage

[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Adriana <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Daliant <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hindu <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Baubarian <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Dexs <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Veloci <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Franswa <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] AFK [ANONYMOUS] Kets <Inglourious Basterds>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:00 2012] There are 8 players in Kedge Keep.
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:02 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:02 2012] ---------------------------
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Zephyrus <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Matalus <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Mephost <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:02 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Caseytatum <Vesica Dei>
[Thu Jan 05 00:48:02 2012] There are 4 players in Kedge Keep.

some /say before spawn too

[Thu Jan 05 00:55:58 2012] Amelinda says, 'so you are telling me that vd has had a 15 man crew here to kill this every time?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:56:04 2012] Amelinda says, 'since epics?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:56:12 2012] Veloci says, 'nope but no one else was here for them'
[Thu Jan 05 00:56:33 2012] Chrome says, 'Raid Mob FTE'
[Thu Jan 05 00:56:42 2012] You say, 'lol look at the butthurts'
[Thu Jan 05 00:56:54 2012] Amelinda says, 'here is my issue.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:56:58 2012] Hindu says, 'you realize the shits not gonna drop'
[Thu Jan 05 00:57:07 2012] Amelinda says, 'i already said that phinny is 1 groupable'
[Thu Jan 05 00:57:08 2012] You say, 'you realize ur a fag?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:57:14 2012] Amelinda says, 'and i get a shit ton of fucking "feedback" from IB'
[Thu Jan 05 00:57:16 2012] Amelinda says, 'in tells'
[Thu Jan 05 00:57:37 2012] Amelinda says, 'do you have any idea how angry that makes me?'
[Thu Jan 05 00:58:01 2012] Amelinda says, 'when the feedback is basically 'We are going to take the fact that you are saying phinny is basically 1 groupable and paint just about every other mob with it''
[Thu Jan 05 00:58:22 2012] Amelinda says, 'when i'm not talking about any mob but phinny.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:58:33 2012] Amelinda says, 'i asked rogean what his opinion is but he hasn't gotten back to me yet.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:58:44 2012] Amelinda says, 'i almost didn't log into the server tonight because of this bullshit.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:58:51 2012] You say, 'phinny has been 1 groupable since long before, it hasn't been considered a raid target in over a year'
[Thu Jan 05 00:59:09 2012] You say, 'IB confirmed rule lawyering because they showed up late'
[Thu Jan 05 00:59:21 2012] Amelinda says, 'shut up stealin.'
[Thu Jan 05 00:59:26 2012] Thehero tells you, 'pwnd'
[Thu Jan 05 00:59:27 2012] Hindu says, 'i am in law school i cant help it'

?
and finally phinny spawns at

[Thu Jan 05 01:00:03 2012] Jebobn tells you, 'Attacking Phinigel Autropos Master.

So how about that druid and bard when you guys showed up huh?

Because

[Autotune]

I personally don't care what the actual rule is. I care that it is consistently followed and disputes are handled based on that rule, so that everyone's expectations are the same. But right now, the rule is that Phinny is listed as a raid target.

Ask staff to knock it off the list.

And when Faydedar becomes a one-group mob for one or two guilds, and you want it removed from the raid target list so the other guilds can't compete for it because they might require 3-4 groups to kill it, go ahead and ask for that too. Because it's all about what is in the best interests of your guild, right?

i don't care what happens to any pixelated mob in the game. If a group comes up and owns fay, good for them, they can keep doing it imo. Hell that goes for any raid mob, show me a single group or less of people downing it repeatedly, show me where people call it a camp because they have been doing it. THIS HAS ALL BEEN DONE FOR PHINNY. Multiple people on the server from all guilds and guildless people have called phinny as a camp and killed it with a single group or less over the last year +.

I've had IB (TR), VD, BDA, Eclipse and other small guilds and even guildless people call phinny as a camp and it was respected, by players.


VD and IB only want it enforced the way it was in 2010 because it caters their play style.

So yeah, if single groups start knocking off established raid targets and keeping them down, i'm all fine with them being taken off the raid list or even calling it a camp. Obviously seeing how they would be showing they have sufficient force.

[YendorLootmonkey]

VD and IB only want it enforced the way it was in 2010 because it caters their play style.

We want it handled/enforced in a consistent manner, so that everyone knows what to expect. I think we all want that. You, me, everyone.

Actually, we all want people to be able to work things out for themselves. But, sadly, we know THAT isn't going to happen because everyone's gotta have their pixels. And there are people from all sorts of different cultures and mindsets with different expectations of respecting others, entitlement, and time vs. reward.

So we're left with needing stuff objectively spelled out for us so everyone is at least on the same page. (i.e. instead of "don't be a douchenozzle" rules that never work because what I think is being a douchenozzle is different than someone else's.)

[Zigfreed]

Thank god I don't raid. Seems like almost all of you raiders are completely self absorbed.

[booter]

The only reason we can't work anything out is because people treat guild tags like political parties. Oh and R&F.

[Autotune]

We want it handled/enforced in a consistent manner, so that everyone knows what to expect.

The consistent manner was that phinny is a camp, not a raid. If you want it handled and enforced that way, your guild members and friends should have listened to Amelinda.

[YendorLootmonkey]

The consistent manner was that phinny is a camp, not a raid. If you want it handled and enforced that way, your guild members and friends should have listened to Amelinda.

Okay, what other parts of the raid rules are being handled and enforced contrary to what is written, just so everyone on the server is on the same page? Because I'm confused as hell as to what to do if I want to see what the rules are in case I get into a situation where I need to know if I'm being screwed over or not by someone else. I guess there are "extra rules" or "exceptions to rules" that are generally accepted by the players (and guides/GMs apparently) that somehow aren't reflected in the raid rules post?

Again, someone on staff please take Phinny off of that list so we're all on equal footing in terms of what our expectations are.

[Rusl]

So since phinny is 1 groupable it's not a raid mob? What about other targets like say Draco, Maestro, Naggy, Vox. All of those can be killed by 1 group hell I bet you could get Faydedar with 1 group even Xygoz in VP barely takes more than 1 group to kill. So does that mean I can camp them and they are no longer under the raid rules? Where do you draw the line

[Alarti0001]

So since phinny is 1 groupable it's not a raid mob? What about other targets like say Draco, Maestro, Naggy, Vox. All of those can be killed by 1 group hell I bet you could get Faydedar with 1 group even Xygoz in VP barely takes more than 1 group to kill. So does that mean I can camp them and they are no longer under the raid rules? Where do you draw the line

Phinny is 3 mannable

[Autotune]

So since phinny is 1 groupable it's not a raid mob? What about other targets like say Draco, Maestro, Naggy, Vox. All of those can be killed by 1 group hell I bet you could get Faydedar with 1 group even Xygoz in VP barely takes more than 1 group to kill. So does that mean I can camp them and they are no longer under the raid rules? Where do you draw the line

It's not what can be, it's what is and has been. Stop twisting shit. It's been proven time and time again. It's been called a camp, time and time again. The majority of the people that have done phinny pre epics have considered it a camp and respected camp calls by a single group time and time again.

Show me people single grouping draco and calling it a camp and repeatedly taking it out. Show me the countless Maestro groups that have been formed to sock Maestro and succeeded. Naggy? Vox? Fay?

Has anyone on this server seen any raid target listed, other than Phinny, constantly taken out over the past year by 6 or less people? I bet you can't name a single one other than him.

It's been called a camp prior to epics, it's been handled as a camp prior to epics, it's been grouped as a camp prior to epics. The only reason you are all in an uproar about it now is that a few mages with some friends might claim it and you can't force them out with sheer numbers.

[Trystych]

We have done maestro as a duo and trio several times (including the heroic mode version), if those players were interested in clearing maestro room and waiting for him they certainly could camp it with a small force. With those kind of numbers though it is not a guaranteed victory and another grouping would probably benefit from waiting around to see what happens.

I too find it extremely unlikely a single group of players will ever be bored enough to keep a portion of fear clear on repop to enable them to camp draco as an xp mob, he can be killed with 1 group though so it would in theory be possible.

The idea of dragons being 1 groupable is not viable IMO. While nagafen and vox certainly would be by lvl 60's that is no longer possible. The regen alone on the kunark targets mentioned would prohibit a single group from success.

[Nirgon]

Apparently using a certain tactic, killing Naggy or Vox with a group and a half of lvls 40-50 with almost no resist gear is very possible. We're discussing it on the other side of the tracks right now :).

[Ravager]

I'm relatively new to the raid scene, and I wasn't there for the Phinny thing, but this rules stuff is interesting to me and I'd just like to comment that someone as new to raiding as me (and I'm certain I'm not the only one with new players reaching raid levels all the time) will have no idea what all of these unwritten/assumed/player agreed rules are.

In my opinion a rule is something that's written, by the staff and posted publicly for everyone to see. Regardless of how old the rule is, or when it was written, whatever is posted as rules is all a guy like me is going to have to go by. How am I supposed to sift through thousands of posts to find all of these unwritten/assumed/player agreed rules and how am I supposed to know which ones are the ones to follow since there seems to be five sides to every story? Even if I knew every unwritten/assumed/player agreed rules and played by them, I can't be certain that if I do have a dispute that needs GM intervention that I'll be found in the right because they don't always mesh with the actual written rules.

Further, it seems that the only rules that matter to Rogean are the written rules, since whenever questions come up, he's apt to quote the written rule, regardless of how old it is. So I will assume that whatever is written is the rule.

I am also of the opinion that no matter what the posted rules are, whatever a GM says goes. We're playing on their server. They can run it as they see fit. They'll make mistakes and do things that contradict rules, but they are their rules to contradict. And by the nature of the game, not everyone is going to like the outcome of their decisions, but big deal. They are generously donating their time to this community and doing the best they can with what they have to work with, be it resources, information or support. They can only handle the disputes on a case-by-case basis and only the GMs know what they know and I do believe they try to make the best decisions they can based on what they know about each dispute.

I don't have all the facts about all the major disputes and unanswered petitions either, but the general vibe I'm getting is that the players are treating the GMs like garbage, so it should be no surprise that petitions get left unanswered and disputes unsettled. I don't consider this favoritism to one group or another, just a general "I give up, solve your own problems" position they're taking. And if half of what I heard about how the players treat the GMs is true, I really can't say that I blame them.

In the end, as long as this server is up, there will always be another Phinny, Ragefire, Draco, etc... if you don't have the time to wait for the next pop and try again, you're probably playing the wrong game.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Apparently using a certain tactic, killing Naggy or Vox with a group and a half of lvls 40-50 with almost no resist gear is very possible. We're discussing it on the other side of the tracks right now :).

Yeah, that thread seems pretty popular.

[Slippery]

I'm relatively new to the raid scene, and I wasn't there for the Phinny thing, but this rules stuff is interesting to me and I'd just like to comment that someone as new to raiding as me (and I'm certain I'm not the only one with new players reaching raid levels all the time) will have no idea what all of these unwritten/assumed/player agreed rules are.

In my opinion a rule is something that's written, by the staff and posted publicly for everyone to see. Regardless of how old the rule is, or when it was written, whatever is posted as rules is all a guy like me is going to have to go by. How am I supposed to sift through thousands of posts to find all of these unwritten/assumed/player agreed rules and how am I supposed to know which ones are the ones to follow since there seems to be five sides to every story? Even if I knew every unwritten/assumed/player agreed rules and played by them, I can't be certain that if I do have a dispute that needs GM intervention that I'll be found in the right because they don't always mesh with the actual written rules.

Further, it seems that the only rules that matter to Rogean are the written rules, since whenever questions come up, he's apt to quote the written rule, regardless of how old it is. So I will assume that whatever is written is the rule.

I am also of the opinion that no matter what the posted rules are, whatever a GM says goes. We're playing on their server. They can run it as they see fit. They'll make mistakes and do things that contradict rules, but they are their rules to contradict. And by the nature of the game, not everyone is going to like the outcome of their decisions, but big deal. They are generously donating their time to this community and doing the best they can with what they have to work with, be it resources, information or support. They can only handle the disputes on a case-by-case basis and only the GMs know what they know and I do believe they try to make the best decisions they can based on what they know about each dispute.

I don't have all the facts about all the major disputes and unanswered petitions either, but the general vibe I'm getting is that the players are treating the GMs like garbage, so it should be no surprise that petitions get left unanswered and disputes unsettled. I don't consider this favoritism to one group or another, just a general "I give up, solve your own problems" position they're taking. And if half of what I heard about how the players treat the GMs is true, I really can't say that I blame them.

In the end, as long as this server is up, there will always be another Phinny, Ragefire, Draco, etc... if you don't have the time to wait for the next pop and try again, you're probably playing the wrong game.


Pretty solid standpoint, you hit the nail on the head there pal.

vd/ib too busy sending hate tells and cave dwelling to give a gm reason to care. Take it to rnf, not to amelinda.

[booter]

Yeah, because your posts have always been conducive to an atmosphere of cooperation.

http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-jerkbag.gif

I have to agree with Ravager - we have no choice but to go by the rules that are actually written on these boards. Maybe they could use some expanding, like simply designating which targets can be considered "raid" and which would fall under "group" rules. I'm sure the raiding guilds could all send a recommended list to Nilbog/Rogean/Amelinda and they could finalize it.

The problems occur when rulings are inconsistent or altogether absent.

[Pomaikai]

This is why SoE moved Rage to SF. Even SoE got fed up with the all crap associated with this encounter in SolB. This is one time I'd love to see us stray from "classic" for sure.

[Orruar]

Here's an idea: Use common sense and don't be a douchebag. If people could do these two things, there would be no raid drama, and you wouldn't have to sift through pages and pages of rules to try and figure out how to deal with each and every situation. And I'm convinced that by default, people will do these two simple things. However, it seems like the top guilds here are populated with people who crave drama because their lives are so fucking boring, and so they intentionally ignore their common sense and anti-douchebag instincts.

[EverquestJunkie]

However, it seems like the top guilds here are populated with people who crave drama because their lives are so fucking boring, and so they intentionally ignore their common sense and anti-douchebag instincts.

+1

[booter]

Except that, again, that's just a huge generalization - the exact kind of thing that only leads to more of the very behavior it seeks to stop.

[Duie]

You know, I almost logged in today... thank you for the time i saved of my life by seeing this trend and realizing that nothing on this server will ever change. Enjoy your "Classic " shit bag that you all had a part in making.

All of this come down to the first rule ever put on this server...... play nice. Yet Time and Time again you guys have proven you can't do that.

So instead of looking at the rules ( which change depending on which guild your in) just sit back and enjoy the sespool that is Classic p99

[Aesop]

Here's an idea: Use common sense and don't be a douchebag. If people could do these two things, there would be no raid drama, and you wouldn't have to sift through pages and pages of rules to try and figure out how to deal with each and every situation. And I'm convinced that by default, people will do these two simple things. However, it seems like the top guilds here are populated with people who crave drama because their lives are so fucking boring, and so they intentionally ignore their common sense and anti-douchebag instincts.

Apply this to America, then lol

[scumfuck]

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