Resists

[Silikten]

Time to take another look at them :). Very, very, few partial resists with even 100 in the respective category. Even lvl 25 mobs landing MR based spells on 140mr characters.

[fiegi]

Partially resisting anything other then magic nukes is a myth, like bigfoot.

Resist system was a complete and utter fail.

[Silikten]

constructive posts!

[Darwoth]

just like classic around 100 is where you start to notice a difference, it then scales more quickly in effectiveness every 25 or so points.

[Kringe]

I concur and have posted/addressed this many times.... Still being rooted right off with 156mr myself.... (Call it a fluke, or whatever but its happened quite a few times)...

As chuck said... ALL other resists are still off, getting anyting other than MR at the moment is pointless.

[Silikten]

just like classic around 100 is where you start to notice a difference, it then scales more quickly in effectiveness every 25 or so points.

I would get full resists with 60+ in any category. So I'm not sure what game you were playing. Also, at 80+ MR I was immune to flash/stuns. 120+MR nearly immune to root/snare.

[Darwoth]

nuke damage resists are fine between 115 - 130 in cold or fire i get a good number of partials as it was in beta, and at 150 you are mitigating a large portion of the damage with partials being the norm. the retards clamoring about getting fulls at x level of resistance either have not tested them, are biased or are ignorant to how the resistance formula for this server works, higher partial mitigation combined with small chance to hit for full regardless of resistance level.

the only thing that isnt working properly vs how it was tested 2 months ago is numerous necro and shaman dots having no icon and whirl + bard stun being bugged and stunlocking someone even after it wears off.

[Darwoth]

I would get full resists with 60+ in any category. So I'm not sure what game you were playing. Also, at 80+ MR I was immune to flash/stuns. 120+MR nearly immune to root/snare.

im not talking about mr, your post blanketly addressed "resists" nukes included.

everybody already knows mr is half as effective as it was on live, and everyone knows after the previous several months argueing against it that it is a waste of time as null wants stuns/roots/snares to be viable for some reason or other.

[Silikten]

im not talking about mr, your post blanketly addressed "resists" nukes included.

everybody already knows mr is half as effective as it was on live, and everyone knows after the previous several months argueing against it that it is a waste of time as null wants stuns/roots/snares to be viable for some reason or other.

Good Read. Yes. Resists! I referred to having 60+ in any category and being able to full resist a nuke. I have never, ever, fully resisted a nuke here.

And Whirl is working as intended. If you knew the spell you would realize after you spin, consistently, you will be "dizzy" and not be able to cast.

[Hear_My_Sermon]

nuke damage resists are fine between 115 - 130 in cold or fire i get a good number of partials as it was in beta, and at 150 you are mitigating a large portion of the damage with partials being the norm. the retards clamoring about getting fulls at x level of resistance either have not tested them, are biased or are ignorant to how the resistance formula for this server works, higher partial mitigation combined with small chance to hit for full regardless of resistance level.

the only thing that isnt working properly vs how it was tested 2 months ago is numerous necro and shaman dots having no icon and whirl + bard stun being bugged and stunlocking someone even after it wears off.

this is completely false, still eat full at 200+ fr and rarely (if ever?) mitigate past 50%

[Lazortag]

MR seems okay from what I can tell. In a recent fight when I had ~150 MR I resisted every root that was cast on me (out of 15-20 roots I'd say). FR/CR seem useless at the moment. Is it possible to fully resist a nuke currently?

[kprobe]

This was about the same feedback I had post-beta. The resist system went waaay to far the other way after the resist patch.

MR is the only really useful resist atm, cr/fr do not generate enough partials. PR/DR can be useful if you do not carry cure stacks since dots have a higher chance of being resisted.

As a pvp server we should expect some level of reasonable balance in the magic system, otherwise it will be HP/STA stacking itemization.

[Darwoth]

this is completely false, still eat full at 200+ fr and rarely (if ever?) mitigate past 50%

you are not supposed to mitigate more than 50%, 200 resistance a partial is nearly every cast and a partial mitigated on average 50 - 60%, if your saying it is still doing so then things are working properly.

on live at 220+ you did not mitigate more than 50 - 60% on average either.

[Darwoth]

Good Read. Yes. Resists! I referred to having 60+ in any category and being able to full resist a nuke. I have never, ever, fully resisted a nuke here.

And Whirl is working as intended. If you knew the spell you would realize after you spin, consistently, you will be "dizzy" and not be able to cast.

no, whirl is not working properly and you do not know what your talking about.

[Silikten]

no, whirl is not working properly and you do not know what your talking about.

Yes, whirl is working properly. You do not know....anything.

Agreed MR is somewhat decent less the fact blind will still land at 100+ MR. Also, poison/disease as of now I resist quite a bit with 70+ in said category.

[fiegi]

whirl was useless spell on live and was never used

heres its an over powered joke

[Hear_My_Sermon]

Whirl was great at a point in 1999, it just depends what version you want to put on the server

I think its gr8, basilik stun is op as fuck tho

[Doors]

Whirl is broken on here.

[Hear_My_Sermon]

Whirl is broken on here.

I agree its definitely too weak atm

[Dullah]

I would get full resists with 60+ in any category. So I'm not sure what game you were playing. Also, at 80+ MR I was immune to flash/stuns. 120+MR nearly immune to root/snare.

Shit, above 70 mr, stuns, roots snares and almost anything major magic based other than nukes would be completely resisted. By 90mr stuns and movement impairing effects spells weren't even relevant. Trying to land those spells on someone with that mr was a complete waste of time and the reason my monk seldom died on RZ.

[Albane]

Whirl Til you Hurl needs to be removed from the game. It is an almost unresistable 12 second Stun. No PvP game would ever allow something like this.

[Arillious]

Yes, whirl is working properly. You do not know....anything.

Agreed MR is somewhat decent less the fact blind will still land at 100+ MR. Also, poison/disease as of now I resist quite a bit with 70+ in said category.

Either you are an enchanter or you have never had this spell casted on you on Red99. You would not say that it is working correctly otherwise.

[Juugox2]

im sure they will nerf whirl like they did on blue here if not thats just stupid .. they made it like a 1-3 sec stun on blue

[Silikten]

Either you are an enchanter or you have never had this spell casted on you on Red99. You would not say that it is working correctly otherwise.

Been whirled few times. Fact is I resist it more so then not. I whirl, it fades, can't cast for a few more seconds. Then I pvp more. What's the problem? ENC's have like 900hp...whirl is good for them if it lands. If not they are dead.

[Nirgon]

It disables you after it fades. That's broken point #1.

Point #2 this spell wouldn't even land on people with just shielding up on Live, and rightfully so. It's a stun which has a duration longer than its recast.

Enchanter still has a castable 4 slot dispel (good luck trying to dispel block it, no spoiler sorry), a very comparable nuke to the wizard's at 44, an unresistable magic debuff, fear for pets, group magic resist..

Did I mention castable runes on other prevent life taps from giving hp back to the caster? Well they should prevent it at least if they don't now.

[Silikten]

It disables you after it fades. That's broken point #1.

Point #2 this spell wouldn't even land on people with just shielding up on Live, and rightfully so. It's a stun which has a duration longer than its recast.

Enchanter still has a castable 4 slot dispel (good luck trying to dispel block it, no spoiler sorry), a very comparable nuke to the wizard's at 44, an unresistable magic debuff, fear for pets, group magic resist..

Did I mention castable runes on other prevent life taps from giving hp back to the caster? Well they should prevent it at least if they don't now.

Snare/root also disable you after they fade. Your point has no value. It is working as intended, yet you wish for it to be removed because a 900hp ENC can kill you, once, maybe, on a good day.

Anyways. Fact is everything but MR seems to be useless. It would be nice if GMs could respond to this.

[Hear_My_Sermon]

seems? it is entirely useless

[Nirgon]

So... when snare and root wear off, you're claiming, you still can't move? I'd say that's not the case.

Try casting after the whirl debuff fades and get back to me.


It's been posted before that Null is currently MIA handling issues. When he returns, we'll go back over all of this stuff. It does need a look.

[Silikten]

So... when snare and root wear off, you're claiming, you still can't move? I'd say that's not the case.

Try casting after the whirl debuff fades and get back to me.


It's been posted before that Null is currently MIA handling issues. When he returns, we'll go back over all of this stuff. It does need a look.

I'm saying you are just as disabled as whirl. When whirl fades you can move, at least it doesn't remove sow. When snare/root faded, you are disabled, same predictament.

Also, I can't move while rooted. For 48 seconds.

[Nirgon]

Ok root and snare, you are right, are removing sow. This is intended.

Having no whirl debuff on you, seeing the text of the effect fading and still not being able to cast is not intended.

I also do not believe it is intended for whirl to land so reglarly. I've been whirled at 80-90mr.

[BigTB]

who cares just have more people!

[xblade724]

YES, seeking a dev response on resists....

[Null]

YES, seeking a dev response on resists....

I intend to get around to testing them...again, but IRL is a little rough at the moment and its not exactly a quick thing to test and document well enough to post here.

However...

Nothing has changed in respect to the resist code since beta, I did a diff of the beta source vs. the current and its exactly the same. Something could have changed in the database in regards to spell mods, but there isn't one for pure nukes, which seems to be what people are complaining about.

There is no difference between the different resist types when dealing with pure nukes, so saying that one sort of nuke is landing better or worse than another one is just not possible unless the nuke has an added component of stun (making it more likely to resist).

It is impossible to get a full resist of a pure nuke in the current resist code, just as it was on beta. There is a low chance to land a nuke for full regardless of the targets resist rate, but at 150FR/MR/CR/WhateveR on a pure nuke you should see a very high reduction in damage from partials.

When reading a lot of these posts it seems like people either A. using too small of samples. B. just don't know how the resist system is intended to work here (not there fault since details of it are not up on the wiki). C. listing their fully buffed resists before getting dispelled, debuffed and then nuked to shit or D. something has broken that is not readily apparent in the code, like a change outside of the resist code is somehow putting a dick in it.

I would bet A and B, possibly C and unlikely D (only because the resist code is largely segregated from everything else).

Anyhow ill have something for you guys as soon as I can, if someone doesn't beat me too it.

[Bockscar]

I concur and have posted/addressed this many times.... Still being rooted right off with 156mr myself.... (Call it a fluke, or whatever but its happened quite a few times)...

As chuck said... ALL other resists are still off, getting anyting other than MR at the moment is pointless.

I called it months ago. You blew a fuse and/or jizzed your pants with glee at the opportunity to insult me for that prediction.

I win.

Not that it matters, I don't play.

But you were wrong, and that's what matters.

[tsaC]

What r u referring to?

[Bockscar]

The thread where I pointed out that it was not only chronologically incorrect but also profusely retarded if they were to implement the resist system that Kringe insisted the game had at the time: "you need 200+ in a resist before you start noticing partials, and full resists basically never happen."

I was then called a retard by all of Holocaust. Now they're banned and it turns out I was right. If I had played on this server for more than a few weeks, I'd be laughing. Now I merely grin.

Enjoy Kringe's resist system. Well, those of you who play, anyway.

[Smedy]

Did a lot of testing in beta with null, the resists are fine unless they have been modified since then.

You need 150+ fr/cr to start seeing a big chance in the partials, this design is good cause it will work for us in kunark as well while still making casters viable.

One thing i think was a mistake however is the fact that nukes only get a 20% reduction in pvp while i think they should get a 34%.

Discuss

[Whistler]

Should have a chance to get a full resist on a nuke, just like ther is a chance to get hit for full dmg regardless of your resists there should be a chance to full resist reguardless of resists

[Smedy]

the chance needs to be extremely small though at all resists below 100, otherwise we will see another shitty vztz resist code where 75% of all nukes get resisted at 120+.

I suggested to null that once you reach 100, you get 2% to resist, 200 you get 4% etc.... and then keep the partial as it is

it's not gonna change much, but it will give you a chance to resist. But lets be real, only way for casters to be viable is if their nukes lands, so partial resist system is better then a full resist system.

I just dont think people have good enough gear yet to complain that casters are op.

Casters are suppose to be op until you get godly gear.

[Whistler]

I dont know, imo beta was skewed. People were given all the good shit. Right how i have all but diamond rings and planar raid gear. I play elemental song and my mr is 165, fr 160, cr 140 and the partials i see and the lack of chance to completely resist a nuke makes it more effecient to load up on hp gear. mithril bp, opal rings, and bs earings stacked with mr is better atm. Have that hp gear lets me take less dmg by % than having the resists i stated.

[Jirr]

It was more efficient to wear HP gear on live for certain classes through velious. My druid had enough HP and mana by velious that I would just ignore spell damage and heal through it.

[Darwoth]

I dont know, imo beta was skewed. People were given all the good shit. Right how i have all but diamond rings and planar raid gear. I play elemental song and my mr is 165, fr 160, cr 140 and the partials i see and the lack of chance to completely resist a nuke makes it more effecient to load up on hp gear. mithril bp, opal rings, and bs earings stacked with mr is better atm. Have that hp gear lets me take less dmg by % than having the resists i stated.

you did not resist single effect fire/cold nukes on live beyond partials.

magic, rains, dual effect nukes and so on sure. this is the same here except for magic nukes i believe.

switching out gear and gaining an extra couple hundred hp is not better for anyone i know except maybe folks that just run/gate soon as a fight starts since 1 let alone 2 partials, even lower ones outweigh the amount of hp gained from the hp gear.

[Whistler]

you had a chance to resist spells on live. dont play downs

[Jigga]

couldnt total resist spells on live. OKAY! It wasnt common to total resist but you could do it.

[xblade724]

I think everyone should have their main show as signature to see if posts like these are biased ;p

[Darwoth]

you did not get red full resists on elemental nukes on live whether or not you had 5 resistance or 5000 resistance.

[Steaks]

after luclin came out and people got 300+ you started to see alot of 50% dmg and even lower sometimes

full resists on fire or cold? i pkd as a wiz , and never saw one

i dont like darworth but he is right about resists

[Silikten]

Are you kidding right now? You two are completely wrong. Full resists were common once you got above 150. Why else do you think Lures came out for wizards and Magicians became complete shit. Necros and Wizards were the only viable int casting class. ENC's were purely CC.

However, it was often that you would find an ENC tash followed by Malo. That was NECESSARY to land nukes as a mage, period. Here, partial resists are more uncommon than a manastone.

[Darwoth]

Are you kidding right now? You two are completely wrong. Full resists were common once you got above 150. Why else do you think Lures came out for wizards and Magicians became complete shit. Necros and Wizards were the only viable int casting class. ENC's were purely CC.

However, it was often that you would find an ENC tash followed by Malo. That was NECESSARY to land nukes as a mage, period. Here, partial resists are more uncommon than a manastone.

erm lures came out for pve like everything else in eq, thought we were talking about pvp

by velious i was between 180 - 220ish in fire and cold with 140 or so magic, not once did i ever flat resist a single effect elemental nuke. pretty obvious you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

[fiegi]

Gotta agree with Darwoth here

Never fully resisted a single nuke on live

Not sure what game Silikten played.

[Danien]

Uhh you resisted quite a bit of non-lures/draughts... can't say for sure in old/kunark but definitely in velious.

[Kringe]

Are you kidding right now? You two are completely wrong. Full resists were common once you got above 150. Why else do you think Lures came out for wizards and Magicians became complete shit. Necros and Wizards were the only viable int casting class. ENC's were purely CC.

However, it was often that you would find an ENC tash followed by Malo. That was NECESSARY to land nukes as a mage, period. Here, partial resists are more uncommon than a manastone.


Silikten was playing the same game as Boxscar in my sig..

Lures came out for 5% of the entire server total population... Seriously dood? Lol...

I also am going to have to agree with Darwoth here..

With the exception of MR being totally fucked atm.... Stuns landing WAY to much... Being rooted by Wooley Nets First click with 140+mr.. Partials were next to nadda until you reached the 200+ thresh hold.

MR based spells is what we really need to be addressing.

[Smedy]

You guys are hooked up on the wrong thing here, the resists are not that bad. The issue is that nukes are only being reduced by 20% and not 34% in pvp.

Proof: http://web.archive.org/web/200011180728/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/wizard/spelldescriptions.asp?SpellID=276 (http://web.archive.org/web/200011180728/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/wizard/spelldescriptions.asp?SpellID=276)

Check first comment, i never remember ice commet doing 896 in pvp, more around 700ish, this is the issue here, not the resists.

Change the spell pvp reduction for pvp to 34% instead of 20% and all issues are solved.

[Kringe]

You guys are hooked up on the wrong thing here, the resists are not that bad. The issue is that nukes are only being reduced by 20% and not 34% in pvp.

Proof: http://web.archive.org/web/200011180728/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/wizard/spelldescriptions.asp?SpellID=276 (http://web.archive.org/web/200011180728/http://eq.castersrealm.com/spells/wizard/spelldescriptions.asp?SpellID=276)

Check first comment, i never remember ice commet doing 896 in pvp, more around 700ish, this is the issue here, not the resists.

Change the spell pvp reduction for pvp to 34% instead of 20% and all issues are solved.


Ice Comet did 1148 for along time on RZ...... Im fine with it doing 896.. However Im not cool with being rooted with 140+Mr or chain stunned by green mobs with the same MR.... Those things need to be addressed...

SEPTEMBER 13, 1999PVP Changes:
In order to make PVP combat between spellcasters and melee types more viable some changes to PVP spell effects have been made. All damage spells cast in PVP combat will do less damage to the PC than the same spell would do to an NPC. When a PC is under the effect of a root-type spell there is a 20% chance that they will break free when a direct damage spell is cast upon them.

Your way off big smedy...

Stun is by far the worse possible spell -in-game to not be looked at..

[Jirr]

Shouldn't stun have a double MR check? I don't feel like playing detective today, but one roll all or nothing for the stun and then a second roll for the damage which could be full or partial is how I remember it.

[Smedy]

So the full pvp for spell damage was until sep 1999, that's about 6 months from release, with our "increased timeframe" thats about 2 months into the box or? lets do this 66% spell damage

[Zalaerian]

Shouldn't stun have a double MR check? I don't feel like playing detective today, but one roll all or nothing for the stun and then a second roll for the damage which could be full or partial is how I remember it.

The double resist check is correct. This is why the lvl 5 one was by far the best to use on live.

[Jirr]

The double resist check is correct. This is why the lvl 5 one was by far the best to use on live.

Are you volunteering to look it up for us?!

[Silikten]

Lures came out for 5% of the entire server total population... Seriously dood? Lol....

Yes, seriously. Lures were by far the least used spell PvE. Or did you not play one? By level 65 my magician's nukes were COMPLETELY RESISTED. That is why I quit playing a mage. By that, I mean from 1 to level 65. Not just during Planes. I routinely encounter full resists from Scars. It was just stupid to pvp as a mage at lvl 54. I was a decoy.

Boxcar's statements is legit to me. So that isn't really a bad statement on your part.

You guys are confusing words with meaning though. Something really common amongst lower educated people. I say nukes were fully resisted commonly. I am referring to 1/20 I would get a full resist.

I love being able to fully resist npc nukes, even creeping crud, yet can't fully resist an ignite or Firestrike. Ever.

Draughts from wizards were only used to try and get kill shot due to fast cast or because you were low on mana. Mage nukes were complete garbage. Hence the reason Necros were always #1 int caster. Low resist dots coupled with taps/pr/dr dots were deadly. Pure nukes were shit. Ignite bones landing pvp is hilarious.

But sadly, this isn't a game upon "what I remember." So I could careless about opinions other than developers. I just think they should be looked at. This isn't Kunark, why are spells "prepared" for such.

[Darwoth]

Yes, seriously. Lures were by far the least used spell PvE. Or did you not play one? By level 65 my magician's nukes were COMPLETELY RESISTED. That is why I quit playing a mage. By that, I mean from 1 to level 65. Not just during Planes. I routinely encounter full resists from Scars. It was just stupid to pvp as a mage at lvl 54. I was a decoy.

Boxcar's statements is legit to me. So that isn't really a bad statement on your part.

You guys are confusing words with meaning though. Something really common amongst lower educated people. I say nukes were fully resisted commonly. I am referring to 1/20 I would get a full resist.

I love being able to fully resist npc nukes, even creeping crud, yet can't fully resist an ignite or Firestrike. Ever.

Draughts from wizards were only used to try and get kill shot due to fast cast or because you were low on mana. Mage nukes were complete garbage. Hence the reason Necros were always #1 int caster. Low resist dots coupled with taps/pr/dr dots were deadly. Pure nukes were shit. Ignite bones landing pvp is hilarious.

But sadly, this isn't a game upon "what I remember." So I could careless about opinions other than developers. I just think they should be looked at. This isn't Kunark, why are spells "prepared" for such.





i was just trying to hear what you were saying but instead all i got was a loud hissing sound due to the fact you are speaking purely from your asshole.

lures were all wizards casted on dragons, venril sathir, sirens grotto shit, icewell shit and so on, and draughts were what made up the majority of a wizards offense in pvp due to being easier to land on a moving/running target.

i played with and against the best wizards on rz, you are wrong.

and you must of been a mage in whatever non everquest game you were playing since eq mages landed on me with 220 fr all day long, parials yes but certainly never got a red resist. course then there is the fun part about you mentioning something about level 65, which is not even the classic through velious era and came with or after luclin, which is when the entire resist system we are discussing was changed anyway and everyone worth remembering quit.

[Darwoth]

lol just looked it up, 65 came in planes of power, so your talking about a timeframe a full 2 expansions (or more) after what we are all speaking of.

certainly wrong about the era we are discussing, probably wrong about whatever irrelevant crap you are talking about to.

[ShipIt]

I'm saying you are just as disabled as whirl. When whirl fades you can move, at least it doesn't remove sow. When snare/root faded, you are disabled, same predictament.

Also, I can't move while rooted. For 48 seconds.

While rooted you can use:

spells and abilities (see: gate, harmshield, divine aura, greater healing, yonder, blind, ice comet, fear, whirl til you hurl, etc)
items (see: crystallized pumice, vial of swirling mist, lizard blood potion, golem wand, cloudy potion, etc)

While Whirl til you get fucked you can use:
chat
/yell
/q

During the stun period after whirl you're fucked wears off you can use:
chat
/yell
/q
your feet to try and book it because YOU'RE STILL FUCKING SILENCED AND STUNNED AND DEAD WHAT THE FUCK

[Bromontana]

If they have a robust random number generator it's pretty easy to develop a good resist system. The problem is getting someone or some group of people with authority to define some numbers to resist levels.

Assuming an unresisted spell lands for 1000 dmg, what should be the expected damage at resist 100, 200, 300, etc? Once some consensus is reached on that question it's simple to define an appropriate regression to map out the rest of the possible resist values. Then you use the expected resistance at X resist as the mean for random number generation when a spell is cast on someone with X resist.

The mechanics are relatively easy, the bolded part is what needs to be answered first.

You can generalize this to debuffs or groups of debuffs or multi-effect spells too, you'd just need different resist tables for each group.

[Silikten]

lol just looked it up, 65 came in planes of power, so your talking about a timeframe a full 2 expansions (or more) after what we are all speaking of.

certainly wrong about the era we are discussing, probably wrong about whatever irrelevant crap you are talking about to.

Learn to read before you post "lols" of information I clearly stated while completely killing your argument.


Also, while whirl fades, you can run, zone, hide. Or like most of you unskilled players, die.

As a magician, I single handledly watched wizards cast Lure of Ice I believe, the 850 one or something, be cast often only due to its high damage. Also, Dragons were easy when properly debuffed and casting under the belly. You were probably awful on live, as you are most likely here.

Debuffs not needed to land spells is fantastic. Why malo when you dont need to waste the mana.

[compulsion]

Silikten is exactly right about how easy magician spells were to resist, and much closer to correct that Darwoth.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010801151815/http://everquest.station.sony.com/stats/sz_summary.jsp

Shortly(2 mos^) after SZ opened and before the majority of players had even farmed a full set of resist gear, there is -one- magician in the various top 20 overall rankings. How many enchanters? 4. Flip through any of the months and the results are nearly the same.

Which means that by the opening of SZ(late June, 01) spells were so easy to mitigate and resist that Sony had to act to buff casters, then, even after the buff, PvP was still dominated by classes with irresistible damage. And again, that scoreboard was taken 2 months after the server release before most players were starting to wear full resist sets.

There is no possible way that magicians(with nearly the same damage per spell as wizards AND an unresistable -50 M/F/C/PR debuff) would be a total non factor if their nukes really were landing through 220 resist, especially at a time when most players weren't even at 150 yet. And how about enchanters? SZ chanters weren't getting kills even with -59MR tash on undergeared opponents. You think people were sporting 200+ unbuffed MR 2 mos after server release? All actual reasonable evidence suggests that before the complete rewrite of resists after PoP, spells that could be resisted were very easy to resist.

At some point in time, Sony must have changed the basic resist mods to the various spells. Ice comet has the exact same resist mod as the wizard rain spells according to the p99 wiki, yet on live you would never use a rain unless the mob was debuffed, and even then I would expect at least 1/3 to resist.

As for this server, Bromontana is exactly right. Live EQ should not be canon law. Null or whoever needs to just pick a magic number and scale around it.

[Darwoth]

yes, because the worst caster class for pvp not being high in the ranking means mages could not land spells, meanwhile druids who have the same resistance rate of fire based nukes managed to do just fine.

sorry, single effect elemental nukes did not give full resists from launch through velious. ever. hence the reason everybody who was actually there agrees on said point.

[Crazycloud]

nukes were never resisted because roots/snare/WHIRL almost never fucking landed over 80 mr back in the days. I mean shit it'll land but barely ever. Had to roll around with a ench to pell MR buffs + tash to get snares/root to land.

Also mage nukes so easy to avoid in EQ classic. Run behind wall/hill bye bye bolts.

[Darwoth]

Learn to read before you post "lols" of information I clearly stated while completely killing your argument.


Also, while whirl fades, you can run, zone, hide. Or like most of you unskilled players, die.

As a magician, I single handledly watched wizards cast Lure of Ice I believe, the 850 one or something, be cast often only due to its high damage. Also, Dragons were easy when properly debuffed and casting under the belly. You were probably awful on live, as you are most likely here.

Debuffs not needed to land spells is fantastic. Why malo when you dont need to waste the mana.


blar glar glar

so according to you.....

whirl locking down opponents long after it wears off is correct.

elemental nukes full resisted "all the time" vs the never that everyone who actually played during said timeframe recalls.

you "single handedly" (lol as opposed to what?) watched wizards cast lures, but it was only because of the "high damage" (vs ice comet & sunstrike?) not because the raid mobs had higher resists which was the whole reason they were introduced to begin with.



why are you even talking still? by your own posts you didnt even play until at least 2 expansions after what everybody here is talking about, even more laughable is that it was probably on a blue server.

[Silikten]

why are you even talking still? by your own posts you didnt even play until at least 2 expansions after what everybody here is talking about, even more laughable is that it was probably on a blue server.

Yes, seriously. Lures were by far the least used spell PvE. Or did you not play one? By level 65 my magician's nukes were COMPLETELY RESISTED. That is why I quit playing a mage. By that, I mean from 1 to level 65. Not just during Planes. I routinely encounter full resists from Scars. It was just stupid to pvp as a mage at lvl 54. I was a decoy.


You are bad.

[tsaC]

anyone who played EQ past Lvl 60 is a moron

[Mardur]

Remember when I posted this same thread and got trolled to shit? Ya.

[tsaC]

Remember when I posted this same thread and got trolled to shit? Ya.

no could you link us

[Brokabb]

Except Reika's thread was crying about his cronies getting owned by our group of lvl 42s because they couldn't resist our spells. Then, Lethdar posted the logs showing Reika resisting like 7 mezzes in a row so he had no reason for he, Troriste, and Jibekn getting owned.

It's kinda funny, you figure Troriste one of the biggest exploiters / know alls of everquest and his pal Reika still hadn't heard of this strange, confounding item called "A Crimson Potion".

[Brokabb]

also, channeling is way more fucked than resists imo. fix that bullshit first.

[Tassador]

channeling is god. with good timing you can jump in the air before your cast and get it off. with good timing on a spell thats like 2.5sec if you wait around 2.1sec and start running it still will nuke. I think channeling is broken towards the end and not the beginning. cause if you barely move or start casting the instance you stop running the spell will be interrupted. but if your on the tail end of the spell good luck interupting it. I've been nuked by wizards and thrown off hills while casting heal. Regain concentration Heal gets off np.

[Nirgon]

Need to know when Null gets back... until then spend some time researching and compile your list and test datas.

[Darwoth]

on live clerics would start casting a complete heal in a corner, run around in circles and get back to the corner before the spell fjnished and it would go off, channeling appears fine to me.

[Smedy]

on live clerics would start casting a complete heal in a corner, run around in circles and get back to the corner before the spell fjnished and it would go off, channeling appears fine to me.

that doesn't have anything to do with channeling tho

channeling code is only triggered if you slightly offset the first loc where the spell casting begun.

if you run around and back to the exact same spot, there will not be a channeling message, cause everquest only checks begin cast, and end cast, so to the server you could just as well been standing still.

i think channeling is fine though, i had no issues gating from 5 melees on live, channeling on vztz however was a huge joke and broken as fuk

[Brokabb]

on live clerics would start casting a complete heal in a corner, run around in circles and get back to the corner before the spell fjnished and it would go off, channeling appears fine to me.

that's not what i'm talking about.. i'm more concerned about the fact that I can sit there with 3-4 people or mobs beating on me and still get off an ebolt, gate, heal or any other long casting spell I want and 9 times out of 10 it is never interrupted.

[Tassador]

you guys are talking about running around and getting to the same spot. What i am saying is i could cast a spell and before the spell finishes i could already be running. Also if a spell has knock back imo it should stop you from getting the spell off. Whats the point in my meming Dizzying wind if i am going to do 18dmg and knock the person back but whoopee they gated.

[Nirgon]

I also channel thru way too much

[Palemoon]

I also channel thru way too much




x1000

where is that pic again of the caster falling unconscious at negative life, getting back up again and finishing his gate channel? lol

[Jirr]

x1000

where is that pic again of the caster falling unconscious at negative life, getting back up again and finishing his gate channel? lol

That was not uncommon on live.

[Nirgon]

Shouldn't be channeling 6+ second spells through 3 mobs regularly. Sorry.

Even worse, spells like shock of lightning are not interrupting. This was a key mechanic for some classes in classic.

[Brokabb]

Shouldn't be channeling 6+ second spells through 3 mobs regularly. Sorry.

Even worse, spells like shock of lightning are not interrupting. This was a key mechanic for some classes in classic.

also shaman dots not stacking like plague, scourge, etc which adds a total new element to shaman pvp when your shit can't just be cured with one-two clicks of a 2 second cast potion and has been proven in multiple threads it's classic. it doesn't really matter tho, unless big null gets the time to work on this shit nothing will be fixed by anyone else.

[Nirgon]

Implement classic pvp not so ez

[Brokabb]

i mean the proof is there - the effort, however, is not it seems. there have been 0 fixes/updates to red99 since launch other than like mage swords being nerfed heh. basically if null doesn't do it, then it's not going to get done. not bashing any of the staff or anything, and i have a lot of respect for null and everything he's done thus far and understand he can't devote as much time as we'd all like him to. so why not add on another member to the staff to maybe help out with the red server? you guys obviously don't consider our playerbase large or important enough to fix broken stuff for us compared to the blue server, yet i'm sure there are tons of coders out there on the forums who would love to help. I understand this is your baby, but why not give null some help for the time being?

[Nirgon]

Rather have Null do it than some new jack.

Any ETA on a possible Null return? "No" is fine, we're just all wondering here.

[Nizzarr]

I`ve channeled multiple spells tru 10-20 hits, its more common than not -- current channeling is way too good.

[Silikten]

on live clerics would start casting a complete heal in a corner, run around in circles and get back to the corner before the spell fjnished and it would go off, channeling appears fine to me.

Comprehension at its best.

[compulsion]

yes, because the worst caster class for pvp not being high in the ranking means mages could not land spells, meanwhile druids who have the same resistance rate of fire based nukes managed to do just fine.

sorry, single effect elemental nukes did not give full resists from launch through velious. ever. hence the reason everybody who was actually there agrees on said point.

Actually, two people half assed agreeing with you neither comprises "everyone", nor the complete and total populations of red servers from live EQ. The vague memories which you so adamantly present as reality do not match the actual evidence that remains from the era. You get all loud and absolute and make a half assed comparison, yet make no assessment of the two actual facts that we have.

Sony specifically coded a 50% increase to all debuffs in PvP to account for how easy resists were to stack. Yet you cling to your impression that even in full resist gear, you weren't seeing significant resists. Which holds more weight, 11 year old memories or documented game balance adjustments that were specific to the era?

Even after that buff, PvP is utterly dominated by melees and lure based casters. So much so that paladins and rangers and rogues, in representation, dominate any caster without a lure, and at a time when clickable items would reset spell icons to significantly increase caster dps.

You make a ridiculous comparison between druid nuke and mage nukes when the real reason that druids dominate in pulling coins is that in a melee heavy environment where it is tough to stop and scrub dots, WD was a death sentence. Outside of 6+ sec casting spells, druids and mages nuke for about the same. Char and Scoriae are almost identical quick casting, fire based shocks, yet druids make up 15x the representation while only being used by maybe 40% of the population(over 60% being evil team). Factor in the diverse role a druid plays in a group(healing/snaring) and a druid would cast even fewer offensive spells during the course of a battle than a mage. More nukes cast and fewer coins. That pretty strongly suggests that easy resists rendered these nukes useless and druids remained a good damage class by virtue of an unresistable dot.

I'm sure if you have been playing boxes for the last 10 years you probably can't distinguish what was live and what wasn't.

[Nirgon]

I`ve channeled multiple spells tru 10-20 hits, its more common than not -- current channeling is way too good.

In this case, more broken than exploit and I agree

[Jirr]

I`ve channeled multiple spells tru 10-20 hits, its more common than not -- current channeling is way too good.

The # of times you are hit has nothing to do with channeling. As long as you start and end the spell in roughly the same spot you will channel barring a stun. I think you are too accustomed to the odd vztz code where every melee hit had a chance to interrupt.

[Darwoth]

Actually, two people half assed agreeing with you neither comprises "everyone", nor the complete and total populations of red servers from live EQ. The vague memories which you so adamantly present as reality do not match the actual evidence that remains from the era. You get all loud and absolute and make a half assed comparison, yet make no assessment of the two actual facts that we have.

Sony specifically coded a 50% increase to all debuffs in PvP to account for how easy resists were to stack. Yet you cling to your impression that even in full resist gear, you weren't seeing significant resists. Which holds more weight, 11 year old memories or documented game balance adjustments that were specific to the era?

Even after that buff, PvP is utterly dominated by melees and lure based casters. So much so that paladins and rangers and rogues, in representation, dominate any caster without a lure, and at a time when clickable items would reset spell icons to significantly increase caster dps.

You make a ridiculous comparison between druid nuke and mage nukes when the real reason that druids dominate in pulling coins is that in a melee heavy environment where it is tough to stop and scrub dots, WD was a death sentence. Outside of 6+ sec casting spells, druids and mages nuke for about the same. Char and Scoriae are almost identical quick casting, fire based shocks, yet druids make up 15x the representation while only being used by maybe 40% of the population(over 60% being evil team). Factor in the diverse role a druid plays in a group(healing/snaring) and a druid would cast even fewer offensive spells during the course of a battle than a mage. More nukes cast and fewer coins. That pretty strongly suggests that easy resists rendered these nukes useless and druids remained a good damage class by virtue of an unresistable dot.

I'm sure if you have been playing boxes for the last 10 years you probably can't distinguish what was live and what wasn't.

blah blah bloviate

i never said resists didnt do shit moron, i said that certain types of spells did not give flat full resists (with red text) which is entirely accurate, also noted at 150 you would get partials a lot and almost always at 200+ you know..... sort of like it is here.

and please spare me your theories on how a druid operates.

[Lael]

I played a Mage on RZ and during PoP and my memories are the following.

MR DD was basically always resisted and casting MR DD based Spells as a Mage in PvP was waste of time.

You had your Pet damage and as Spells you had to use the LOS Fire based Spells.

These Fire based Bolts would be partially resisted down to less then 1/3 the Damage even if target was partially debuffed with the non resistible Malo/Mala line.
However the damage was higher when the second debuff (Malosi/Malosini) which might land (often did not land bc of other Players high resists) after Mala/Malo had landed was cast on enemy Player.

After allot of PvP you also knew if Malosini(a) had a change to land on the specific target or not and you just sticked to the non resistable one.


Mage basic PvP fight was like this.
Dispellpots > Cast Mala & send Pet, give Malosinia 1 try then repeat casting Bolts, recast Mala etc. if it got cured.

[Jirr]

I played a Mage on RZ and during PoP and my memories are the following.

MR DD was basically always resisted and casting MR DD based Spells as a Mage in PvP was waste of time.

You had your Pet damage and as Spells you had to use the LOS Fire based Spells.

These Fire based Bolts would be partially resisted down to less then 1/3 the Damage even if target was partially debuffed with the non resistible Malo/Mala line.
However the damage was higher when the second debuff (Malosi/Malosini) which might land (often did not land bc of other Players high resists) after Mala/Malo had landed was cast on enemy Player.

After allot of PvP you also knew if Malosini(a) had a change to land on the specific target or not and you just sticked to the non resistable one.


Mage basic PvP fight was like this.
Dispellpots > Cast Mala & send Pet, give Malosinia 1 try then repeat casting Bolts, recast Mala etc. if it got cured.


The resist system was completely revamped between velious and pop.

[Dullah]

A lot of opinions here are being generated from a post velious era.

@compulsion - sorry thats just not how it was classic-velious.

[Lazortag]

The # of times you are hit has nothing to do with channeling. As long as you start and end the spell in roughly the same spot you will channel barring a stun. I think you are too accustomed to the odd vztz code where every melee hit had a chance to interrupt.

It does sort of have to do with channeling since melee push is in, but yeah being hit 10 times doesn't mean you got pushed.

[Nirgon]

I played a Mage on RZ and during PoP and my memories are the following.

MR DD was basically always resisted and casting MR DD based Spells as a Mage in PvP was waste of time.

.

Sir, I played a friend's wizard to pvp in PoP and my experience was I even saw lures get resisted there. Meanwhile, melees with Vanazir put people through walls.

[Bockscar]

Assuming an unresisted spell lands for 1000 dmg, what should be the expected damage at resist 100, 200, 300, etc?

Personal opinion/memory based on actual classic, not what's desired for this server (the two ended up becoming quite different)?

Doing ten results for each breakpoint to illustrate the example. 1000pt nuke with no resist modifiers or secondary spell component that affects resist check.

At 100 resist:
1000, 800, 1000, resist, 600, 900, 1000, 400, 850, 1000

At 200 resist:
400, 200, 750, resist, 600, resist, 1000, 500, resist, 800

At 300 resist:
resist, resist, 400, resist, 750, 500, resist, resist, 250, 300


By the way, the people who say that full resists were impossible? Wrong/lying. Simple as that.

[Darwoth]

Personal opinion/memory based on actual classic, not what's desired for this server (the two ended up becoming quite different)?

Doing ten results for each breakpoint to illustrate the example. 1000pt nuke with no resist modifiers or secondary spell component that affects resist check.

At 100 resist:
1000, 800, 1000, resist, 600, 900, 1000, 400, 850, 1000

At 200 resist:
400, 200, 750, resist, 600, resist, 1000, 500, resist, 800

At 300 resist:
resist, resist, 400, resist, 750, 500, resist, resist, 250, 300


By the way, the people who say that full resists were impossible? Wrong/lying. Simple as that.


nice, another post by some retard that is talking out of his ass.

[Nirgon]

Oh no that guy is back

[Palemoon]

spell damage needs to go back to the classic 33 percent reduced damage in pvp

Ice comets for 888 damage is no good

I also want to repeat channeling is far too strong.

and as an added bonus: Darwoth is a blatent trainer. I watched him check out a xp group in mistmoor, then go grab the ballroom on the far side of MM, bring it back to the group then insta gate (CT potion or halfling cap) away, so his opinion is meaningless, he is just trollin for max druid spell advantage at all costs.

[Nirgon]

Pale, a good point and my ice comet is 896 at level 50.

This is coming and hopefully will land upon the ears of PvP Mechanic, Lord Null:

You may all be pleased to know that I'm going to be getting down in the dirt for real with researching resists.

I'll save trolling and input for after I've compiled my research. I'll save my responses from there for people I know to be credible in the department and may take things privately from there.

What I'll tell you right now is this, and the shit can just hit the fan now... it is going to advocate changes that will hurt casters. I'm a caster and one who isn't afraid to play classic EQ pvp. I hope you take the latter part of that last sentiment and consider in your future responses on the issue.

[Kringe]

spell damage needs to go back to the classic 33 percent reduced damage in pvp

Ice comets for 888 damage is no goodI
also want to repeat channeling is far too strong.

and as an added bonus: Darwoth is a blatent trainer. I watched him check out a xp group in mistmoor, then go grab the ballroom on the far side of MM, bring it back to the group then insta gate (CT potion or halfling cap) away, so his opinion is meaningless, he is just trollin for max druid spell advantage at all costs.

SEPTEMBER 13, 1999PVP Changes:
In order to make PVP combat between spellcasters and melee types more viable some changes to PVP spell effects have been made. All damage spells cast in PVP combat will do less damage to the PC than the same spell would do to an NPC. When a PC is under the effect of a root-type spell there is a 20% chance that they will break free when a direct damage spell is cast upon them

Your lucky its not the full 1150 like it was for 6months before this patch went in....

[Nirgon]

And here's a great case implementation-wise where I consider:

What was a problem that was removed, and what was a feature they took out due to an expansion being released etc?

I'd say the manastone is a very powerful item and maybe even a grey area. Nonetheless, it was never made the case that all manastones be removed.

Shit like taking out item recharging and nerfing caster PvP damage makes sense. The caster pvp damage was just a general glaring problem mechanics wise. Item recharging is a flat out bug and not a feature... that needs to go.

But, let's see what Kunark holds for casters before we start jumping to 80% reduction conclusions. Further, let's get resists on par with where they need to be and go from there.

I can't say, especially now, that 100% pvp damage from spells would be a smart move.

But yes, he is certainly lucky this isn't the case lol.

[Steaks]

spell damage needs to go back to the classic 33 percent reduced damage in pvp

Ice comets for 888 damage is no good

I also want to repeat channeling is far too strong.

and as an added bonus: Darwoth is a blatent trainer. I watched him check out a xp group in mistmoor, then go grab the ballroom on the far side of MM, bring it back to the group then insta gate (CT potion or halfling cap) away, so his opinion is meaningless, he is just trollin for max druid spell advantage at all costs.

spell dmg was 100% on classic with no 40% Rule trust me : )

and was 100% even through luclin , manaburn gibbed people , got alot of nice loots with it

[Albane]

80% sounds fair for Kunark. But in Kunark, melees do nearly 2x the damage and have 2x the health. It should be lowered for Pre Kunark though.

As for Channeling; it is a fact that you cannot interrupt a spell on this server without stunning the player. This needs to be fixed to give melees a chance in PvP and force casters to use a little bit of strategy when attacking.

Root/Snare - These spell lasts way too long in PvP. Sucks for anyone without the channeling to use a pumice.

[Nirgon]

Detectives are on the case citizen.

[Knuckle]

Detectives are on the case citizen.


http://www.nancydrewsleuth.com/nancydrewmoviecircle.jpg

Body is Ready

[Silikten]

spell dmg was 100% on classic with no 40% Rule trust me : )

and was 100% even through luclin , manaburn gibbed people , got alot of nice loots with it

Comprehension.

[Bromontana]

Personal opinion/memory based on actual classic, not what's desired for this server (the two ended up becoming quite different)?

Doing ten results for each breakpoint to illustrate the example. 1000pt nuke with no resist modifiers or secondary spell component that affects resist check.

At 100 resist:
1000, 800, 1000, resist, 600, 900, 1000, 400, 850, 1000

At 200 resist:
400, 200, 750, resist, 600, resist, 1000, 500, resist, 800

At 300 resist:
resist, resist, 400, resist, 750, 500, resist, resist, 250, 300


By the way, the people who say that full resists were impossible? Wrong/lying. Simple as that.

This is where I think it's easy for people to misremember how things actually were. Let's examine what your tests would imply.

First let's assume that 0 resist provides no protection to this spell (it will always hit for full damage.) On average the resists in your runs provided the following benefits:

100 resist - 24.5% reduction in spell damage
200 resist - 57.5% reduction in spell damage
300 resist - 78.0% reduction in spell damage

Now I don't really remember what the resist curve was like back then, but this sounds far more punitive than anything I remember. It's also not objectively balanced, you'd like for each additional resist point to decrease in effectiveness like all other stats.

[Vile]

hay pizzaman

[Nirgon]

100% through Luclin... and he's serious.

[pojab]

null give me access to resist code. will make resists work like LOL. every 100 resist lowers damage by 50%.(ie 900dmg nuke at 100fr is 450dmg, 200fr is 225) no full resists ever. will not be in any way even close to classic but at least it will make sense and give meaning to gear.