Why not play a monk?

[fischsemmel]

Just curious if there is any reason, other than "because I want to" or "because X is a less common class," to play a pal/sk/rang/rog instead of a monk.

Sounds like monks do nearly the damage of a rogue (while being more versatile in their damage dealing... slow 2h vs 2 1h, decent even without weapons, not needing to be behind the NPC, etc.), while tanking as well as (or better than?) a pal or sk, and with the great utility of mend and better bw and feign and sneak. And then there is fact that the monk class requires less xp than other hybrids.

Seems like the only saving grace for a SK is playing an ogre for the ridiculous stats and stun resist, and that the only reason to play a paladin or ranger is to be unique. I guess rogues have a very slight leg up on monks for damage-dealing and in the exp department... but at what cost?

[falkun]

Monks are OP through Velious. Them and shaman. Live up your prime if you want to.

[Szeth]

The reason you play an sk ranger or paladin isnt to do the most dps or to soak up damage the best.

Hybrids are the only tank type with "snap aggro" Try racing for a Trak, only to have no hybrids to train the inevitable juggs.

[Dekrastius]

Monks are a great class, and eventually they will surpass anyone and I mean ANYONE at pulling. SK's are fine and fun, but when you're on a raid and their FD fails - not ok. Monks are hard to solo unless you know what youre doing.

Major skills include - Bind Wound and Mend... In order to survive you have to use these but also be prepared to die... Monks without a healer or a MT are pretty hard to sue as tanks due to the weight limitations.

Another KEY to monks is training... Train everything from level 1 to its max... 2hb, 1hb, fists, bind wound, mend, safe fall, everything. The only good monk is a maxed monk. Also do your best later in the game to get some haste items. Monks can be so much fun. I played one, 1999-2003 and I loved it more than any other class... So difficult and so fun. At lvl 50 - 55 I was soloing in Sol B. If you can learn mob pathing and you can learn to pull effectively - you will be an unbelievable tool to any group. I could pull anything in Sol B that wasn't raid related... even than, I could pull the fire giants for groups without much distress. Its a very tedious task to solo though... you fight to 20% life hit mend to stay alive, take the kill, bind wound, feign death and heal back up waiting for Mend to repop... then do it all again. It is only advised for someone who is very patient and very loyal to the class.

Monks can be heavily dependant on groups unless you know where to fight... Be prepared to fight a lot of blue mobs for the sake of staying alive and getting exp. Or find groups and be a great puller to bring in the exp.

Just be prepared to deal with the weight requirements... your AC drops dramatically if you go overweight even 1 pound... Its a rewarding class though - I assure you. I wish you luck.

[webrunner5]

Yeah a Monk is one of the greatest classes on Eq. But the weight thing on this server is a killer. They need 4 100% weight reduction bags and a good haste item to be decent. And that is big plat. Not counting a Tstaff down the road. So a great class but one of the most expensive to equipt I think.

And if you are not comfortable pulling or not too good at knowing the zones I would not even consider one. But you can learn it. A Monk and a Necro are the real true basic classes of early EQ. And still 2 of the best.

[Dekrastius]

I agree with Webrunner... I'd suggest starting a class that can potentially make money... IE a Druid that can kite Hill Giants to earn some cash. If you have money and can equip.... Monks are devastating. This is where the line is drawn.. Back when I played my monk in the live days, there was plenty of farming and items out on the market which caused prices to drop. That doesn't seem possible with P'99. Best of luck in your decision.

[tekniq]

you don't play a monk if you're broke...they're expensive.

[eqravenprince]

I started a Monk from scratch and loving it. Level 31, have mostly Wu's armor, 2 +55 hp rings, and Wu's Quivering Staff. I don't see why people think you NEED to twink a Monk. I would argue the exact opposite, they are quite good nakid.

[godbox]

I started a Monk from scratch and loving it. Level 31, have mostly Wu's armor, 2 +55 hp rings, and Wu's Quivering Staff. I don't see why people think you NEED to twink a Monk. I would argue the exact opposite, they are quite good nakid.

truth

but if u got pockets full of plat im sure lvling a monk with tstaff fungi and cof could b pretty fun.

and to OP monks are monks theres a million of em but only like 5 good ones. Its a finesse class not an auto attack class. Like ppl said u gotta max ALL ur skills, learn when to spike your dps and when to just auto, and learn mob pathing and how to pull.

[godbox]

Monks are a great class, and eventually they will surpass anyone and I mean ANYONE at pulling. SK's are fine and fun, but when you're on a raid and their FD fails - not ok. Monks are hard to solo unless you know what youre doing.

Dekrastius resists your harmtouch.

[eqravenprince]

truth

but if u got pockets full of plat im sure lvling a monk with tstaff fungi and cof could b pretty fun.

and to OP monks are monks theres a million of em but only like 5 good ones. Its a finesse class not an auto attack class. Like ppl said u gotta max ALL ur skills, learn when to spike your dps and when to just auto, and learn mob pathing and how to pull.

I can't even imagine having a tstaff fungi and cof. I'm already kicking butt without any of that. As far as controlling your dps, it just depends on who is in your group, what their ac is, what their level is. Learning how to pull, I'm still learning, feign death + sneak + attack mob when one walks away is the newest thing I've added to my knowledge of splitting.

[Szeth]

you're welcome for that =)

[eqravenprince]

you're welcome for that =)

Good memory =). Thanks again!

[fischsemmel]

Its a rewarding class though - I assure you. I wish you luck.

Haha, no need to wish me luck. I'm one of the people who refuses to play a monk for my own reasons... even though I really like the idea of pure melee classes but dislike the idea of being SO group-dependent like warriors and rogues.

Edit - I am a bit confused by people who are saying that monks are expensive though, as if trying to make a monk who is tolerable to solo is more expensive than doing the same thing with any non-caster. Tstaff and fungi for a solo monk? Yeah, that's a lot of money for most people. But you could spend 3x that on a warrior and still be shit without a healer, or 3x that on a rogue and still be shit without a tank AND a healer.

[godbox]

to post above

you COULD spend that much or more on any class but you can see same results for way less cash twink with war rogue ect even if you wanted to drop a bunch of cash what u gonna buy a rapier for what 13K? thats alot less than a tstaff. Monks are more limited by gear choices thats just straight up fact. But ya monks can make great use of lower end gear as well its just people want the best of best (at least for your primary wep) on 1999 and best of best for monk is fing way more expensive in general.

not saying monks are weak or useless untwinked there great untwinked but youll stay untwinked since you cant farm much til you get those 100% reduce bags.

thats my 2cents sorry bout the rant im bored as shit at work

[fischsemmel]

sorry bout the rant

If you think that was a rant, you must be one of the people who opted out of the R&F forums.

[Nagash]

Interesting to note that from the OP's question "Why not play a monk" everyone has come up with reasons why playing one. That's preaching to the choir, isn't it? :)

[godbox]

Interesting to note that from the OP's question "Why not play a monk" everyone has come up with reasons why playing one. That's preaching to the choir, isn't it? :)

not me theres to many fing monks. like I said 5 million monks 5 good ones

[Bruman]

Interesting to note that from the OP's question "Why not play a monk" everyone has come up with reasons why playing one. That's preaching to the choir, isn't it? :)

Yeah, I noticed that. Here's some reasons not to play a monk:

-The weight limit is annoying. Also, the client and server use different calculations for your AC, so your client is 100% useless in determining your AC, and telling what the weight limit is, and telling how bad your weight is hurting your AC.

-Your gear is f'in expensive. Monks are one of the most popular twink classes, so all your best loot is very expensive. Given how you can't carry any weight, you're going to be poor. Low money, expensive items.

-It's a lot of work. You'll bust your ass pulling for a few hours straight, get yelled at if you need a 5 min afk to take a piss, meanwhile you'll find yourself not getting a heal because the cleric is ninja-afk constantly, and you'll die. You have to be moving always. If you get an extra mob on the pull? You're a horrible monk. Why are you taking so long to split? Horrible monk. Why aren't you doing as much dps as my twink? Horrible monk. You get the idea. Grouping can often feel like you working much more than anyone else, and getting shit on for your efforts.

-The epic, while not difficult per-say, involves a bunch of loooong ass camps. It's an awesome questline, and I really enjoy aspects of it, but multiple ~20 hour camps (on the extreme side, 50), really put a damper on the whole thing. Plus, all those long camps create a ton of artificial bottlenecks, and currently our epic has several bugs causing even more artificial bottlenecks. Plus, you lose your sweet looking robe. Why the hell did they decide to do that?

-Because a real monk has no money, most people twink them. So most people will assume you're a twink like all the rest, assume you have no idea how to play, and assume you're a scrub because you aren't in twink gear.

There! Sure, I ranted and whined like a baby, but at least the thread has some balance.

[eqravenprince]

Just curious if there is any reason, other than "because I want to" or "because X is a less common class," to play a pal/sk/rang/rog instead of a monk.

Sounds like monks do nearly the damage of a rogue (while being more versatile in their damage dealing... slow 2h vs 2 1h, decent even without weapons, not needing to be behind the NPC, etc.), while tanking as well as (or better than?) a pal or sk, and with the great utility of mend and better bw and feign and sneak. And then there is fact that the monk class requires less xp than other hybrids.

Seems like the only saving grace for a SK is playing an ogre for the ridiculous stats and stun resist, and that the only reason to play a paladin or ranger is to be unique. I guess rogues have a very slight leg up on monks for damage-dealing and in the exp department... but at what cost?

Since someone said people are giving reasons to play a monk. Here are a few reasons to play those other classes you mentioned.

At times, the weight limitation is frustrating and find myself wishing I could loot a bunch of stuff without the AC penalty. Monks have no spells like snare, healing, ac/hp buffs, fear, lull which are useful in certain situations. Monks have no snap aggro. Monks cannot evade like a Rogue, they do too much damage and mob starts whacking them, they have a couple options take the beating which they can just not as well as a tank, or feign death. And no Feign Death is not the same as Evade, I feign and pop back up and start attacking, the mob almost always turns to face me if someone hasn't passed me on the aggro list. On my Rogue, I evade, and keep attacking. And Monks cannot track or pick locks.

All that being said, the primary reason I play my Monk over the classes above is because he soloes better than the classes above and built in pause button in Feign Death. Shadow Knight is about the only class that would be close.

[webrunner5]

Yeah, I noticed that. Here's some reasons not to play a monk:

-The weight limit is annoying. Also, the client and server use different calculations for your AC, so your client is 100% useless in determining your AC, and telling what the weight limit is, and telling how bad your weight is hurting your AC.

-Your gear is f'in expensive. Monks are one of the most popular twink classes, so all your best loot is very expensive. Given how you can't carry any weight, you're going to be poor. Low money, expensive items.

-It's a lot of work. You'll bust your ass pulling for a few hours straight, get yelled at if you need a 5 min afk to take a piss, meanwhile you'll find yourself not getting a heal because the cleric is ninja-afk constantly, and you'll die. You have to be moving always. If you get an extra mob on the pull? You're a horrible monk. Why are you taking so long to split? Horrible monk. Why aren't you doing as much dps as my twink? Horrible monk. You get the idea. Grouping can often feel like you working much more than anyone else, and getting shit on for your efforts.

-The epic, while not difficult per-say, involves a bunch of loooong ass camps. It's an awesome questline, and I really enjoy aspects of it, but multiple ~20 hour camps (on the extreme side, 50), really put a damper on the whole thing. Plus, all those long camps create a ton of artificial bottlenecks, and currently our epic has several bugs causing even more artificial bottlenecks. Plus, you lose your sweet looking robe. Why the hell did they decide to do that?

-Because a real monk has no money, most people twink them. So most people will assume you're a twink like all the rest, assume you have no idea how to play, and assume you're a scrub because you aren't in twink gear.

There! Sure, I ranted and whined like a baby, but at least the thread has some balance.

One of the best zones to loot in as a Monk is City of Misty. Try going there as a level 42 Monk with crap gear and no weight reduction bags and do well. You will die in a heartbeat and so will your group. You get a reputation as a crappy puller high end and you are done. No good gear and you are done solo also at high levels.

There are a very few good Monk pullers on this sever because of bad gear and not knowing the mechanics of pulling. Not counting really knowing the zones to pull. Not a easy job trust me.

Bruman is completly right. You can pull all day and be a hero. Have two bad pulls and kill the group twice and you are a useless turd. "Never going to group with him again", we die everytime thingy, while he has been AFK 3/4 the time playing with his girlfriends ass.

[Bruman]

Monks have no spells like fear

Pft, we have Intimidation! It's super useful....at making greens run away ;-)

[eqravenprince]

One of the best zones to loot in as a Monk is City of Misty. Try going there as a level 42 Monk with crap gear and no weight reduction bags and do well. You will die in a heartbeat and so will your group. You get a reputation as a crappy puller high end and you are done. No good gear and you are done solo also at high levels.

There are a very few good Monk pullers on this sever because of bad gear and not knowing the mechanics of pulling. Not counting really knowing the zones to pull. Not a easy job trust me.

Well I would hope that in the previous 59 levels that a Monk learned how to pull. What does gear have to do with pulling? I suppose not being able to take a few hits maybe. As far as pulling, Is there a mechanic beyond, hit with ranged, move away from mobs, feign, sneak, pop up when one walks away, hit with ranged and pull mob back to group? I am trying to learn all that I can as a Monk.. so it's a serious question, not trying to be snarky.

[godbox]

Well I would hope that in the previous 59 levels that a Monk learned how to pull. What does gear have to do with pulling? I suppose not being able to take a few hits maybe. As far as pulling, Is there a mechanic beyond, hit with ranged, move away from mobs, feign, sneak, pop up when one walks away, hit with ranged and pull mob back to group? I am trying to learn all that I can as a Monk.. so it's a serious question, not trying to be snarky.

answer Yes there is more to it
information on what there is
http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Skill_Feign_Death

enjoy or reroll a necro either way

[Raavak]

Resists are important alot of times when pulling casting mobs. Knowing a zones layout and mob pathing are huge. Mob aggro ranges. FD splitting. Yadda yadda yadda.

[webrunner5]

Resists are important alot of times when pulling casting mobs. Knowing a zones layout and mob pathing are huge. Mob aggro ranges. FD splitting. Yadda yadda yadda.

He has a lot of what you need to know. Every zone in EQ was designed by a different person or persons. So every mob in each zone behaves a little bit different. Think of mobs at a camp being on a string. They are all connected. What you do to one effects all of them. Some zones have bigger agro rates then others, some less. Very few mobs are un effected by the others in a camp. Caster mobs are the worse, and if they are in front best to pull them first. But very few are in front. EQ developers were pretty smart. So you need to first pull the trash mobs away, thinking about the string thing. Pull mobs that are at odd angles, and ones that are moving around in front first. Toy with them a bit and FD to see how they behave. No way you can ever pull the mob in the back first and get it only to come. Think of the string. I can't say it enough. Study the pathing. It will always repeat the same way every time in that camp. Pulling is the hardest thing to do well in EQ. It is a chess game.
You can't just run in there and FD and hope one mobs stays. You can pull just about any mob single if you are good at it.

My son is the best puller I have ever seen in this game here and live. And he plays a Warrior on both a lot of times. He just knows what to do. Just remember the string thing lol. It takes tons of practice toying with them. You just have to remember each zone is a bit different. There is more to it then I have written, it is something I just do without really thinking about it.
Hard to explain. But I was terrible at it at the beginning. Good luck.

About the gear. Yeah it is mostly about getting hit. Good gear does not really help you being better at pulling. That takes smarts. It helps you live if you get hit and you will. FD fails a lot with casters. AC as a Monk is THE most important stat to have. Agility is next most important stat. Best to use a 2 hander if there is a tank in the group. A lot less agro with a slower weapon. Don't have a weapon to back up a Tank that procs either. Remember to FD as soon as you get back with the pull for Tank to get agro and FD everytime you get agro from the tank. A good tank will hit mobs with a arrow to get agro when you FD. The Cleric has enough to do with healing the Tank and the Enchanter. Cleric depends on you using Mend to heal yourself. A great group is a thing of beauty with a good monk and a good cleric.

[fischsemmel]

A lot less agro with a slower weapon.

This is offtopic, but had to ask anyway.

I see people talk about faster attacks meaning more aggro. But I've also always heard that you generate aggro based on damage dealt. But I've never heard anyone say "You generate more aggro by dealing more damage... AND by dealing damage more consistently over any given period of time."

Do faster attacks TRULY generate more aggro, assuming the same amount of damage over time is being dealt? Or is the aggro just being acquired more steadily, since there is less likelihood of going 5 seconds without any hits at all?

[webrunner5]

This is offtopic, but had to ask anyway.

I see people talk about faster attacks meaning more aggro. But I've also always heard that you generate aggro based on damage dealt. But I've never heard anyone say "You generate more aggro by dealing more damage... AND by dealing damage more consistently over any given period of time."

Do faster attacks TRULY generate more aggro, assuming the same amount of damage over time is being dealt? Or is the aggro just being acquired more steadily, since there is less likelihood of going 5 seconds without any hits at all?

I know for a fact that a Warrior is the worst class, crazy as it seems, even with taunt for getting agro. And the only way to help out is to have fast weapons that proc. So yes fast weapons helps not just more damage. But the proc thing has a lot to do with it. Sort of like snap agro.

I am no expert at it and I don't think anyone is in EQ lol. It is not about total damage output. If that was the case a Mage pet would never lose agro and you know they do if another person steps in on damage. And no one can out damage a Mage pet. Not even a Warrior or Rogue.I know pets are different then normal classes. But as you know there is a hate list in EQ. That is why a Enchanter is the number 1 target of mobs. They have to get mobs under 80% to cast on average their spells. And why you have to wait as a Mage to get mobs under 50% to cast nukes. So a lot to this game.

[falkun]

Grouping can often feel like you working much more than anyone else, and getting shit on for your efforts.

Welcome to a Bard's 12 second life. I can't go afk, ever. Often I'm usually mana song, hasting, slowing, pulling, and CCing. Go make a Monchanter who takes 3sec to do everything and everything he does only lasts for 12sec.

[Bruman]

Welcome to a Bard's 12 second life. I can't go afk, ever. Often I'm usually mana song, hasting, slowing, pulling, and CCing. Go make a Monchanter who takes 3sec to do everything and everything he does only lasts for 12sec.

That's because you're being a good bard :). I know I wasn't being fair in my post (hence the "whining like a baby" comment). Good bards work hard, good tanks work hard, good [any class] honestly works hard. Being the puller (which, if you're a monk, it's typically going to be you) just makes it very visible. People don't notice if a wizard doesn't nuke for a bit, but man, they notice when the exp stops rolling in.

Most bards are probably like most monks people see though. As in, crappy ones, that play 1 song (maybe 2). But even bad monks have to keep trying to work at least.

[Raavak]

Do faster attacks TRULY generate more aggro, assuming the same amount of damage over time is being dealt? Or is the aggro just being acquired more steadily, since there is less likelihood of going 5 seconds without any hits at all?

I'm no expert either, but on a very basic level I thought that aggro, or "hate" was a value directly correlated to damage done (or tried to do when regarding resisted dmg spells). Speed of attack determines who gets on the "hate list" first maybe, but over the course of a fight the character dealing the most damage is going to get the most "hate", hence aggro.

Rogue evade, ranger jolt, wizard concussion subtract from "hate". I don't know how FD does, except maybe just lets the MT catch up, per se?

[falkun]

As a bard, I REALLY appreciate having a monk, ENC, or shaman in the group. Any of those classes usually means that I do not have to run haste or slow or pull. Being everything in a group except for tank or healer, and only being able to do it for 12sec at a time, gets tiresome.

[Splorf22]

Legit reason not to play a monk: cause you can't farm camps for 4k+ plat per hour.

Of course, you can PL for 3k an hour once you get your haste belt and fungi, so :P

[eqravenprince]

Legit reason not to play a monk: cause you can't farm camps for 4k+ plat per hour.

Of course, you can PL for 3k an hour once you get your haste belt and fungi, so :P

You can't? Why not?

[webrunner5]

Because with the Plat, Silver, Copper you will be overweight. AC goes to crap and you can't kill crap.

[Splorf22]

You can't? Why not?

As an enchanter I can solo any mob in upper sebilis except the emperor. I don't think a monk could solo any named there.

[Steaks]

good for you bluebie , farm those platinums so you can win at being gay

[leezard]

This isnt RnF, if you cannot actually add to the discussion, then don't post at all.

[godbox]

good for you bluebie , farm those platinums so you can win at being gay

yur winuns at bein 1337 nerds gangbangders? lolz u c me hit dat noob and take hims fbss? lol /flex /pee

[azeth]

good for you bluebie , farm those platinums so you can win at being gay

beautiful.



You're right, twice, and you don't even know it. Aggro should be generated per swing for starters, then on your net damage, finally factoring in any procs.

So for example, if you're swinging a big stick, lets say 100 damage 100 delay - sure when you connect you will likely garner aggro. However, if you are swinging once every 3ish seconds, to the 10-12 swings a rogue just dealt in that timeframe you may want to rethink your weapon choice.

Each swing - 1
Aggro per point of damage - 2

100/100 weapon over 10 seconds with 1 connected hit:

Swing 1: 1 aggro MISS no damage aggro
Swing 2: 1 aggro CONNECT 200 damage (100 damagex2 aggro per damage - 400+2 swings = 402 aggro)
Swing 3: 1 aggro MISS no damage aggro

NET - 403

Rogue over 10 seconds:

Swing 1: 1 MISS (1)
Swing 2: 1 CONNECT 20 (42)
Swing 3: 1 CONNECT 10 (63)
Swing 4: 1 MISS (1)
Swing 5: 1 MISS (1)
Swing 6: 1 MISS (1)
Swing 7: 1 CONNECT 25 (117)
Swing 8: 1 CONNECT 26 (170)
Swing 9: 1 CONNECT -backstab- 100 (371)
Swing 10: 1 CONNECT 20 (412)
Swing 11: 1 MISS (413)
Swing 12: 1 MISS (414)

NET - 414 aggro

Obviously this is just a rough example, the numbers though arbitrary, are consistant, however this does not whatsoever factor in Taunt etc.

[Steaks]

This isnt RnF, if you cannot actually add to the discussion, then don't post at all.

lol owned

Farm more platinum , get epic , farm even MOAR platinum , make alt , twink him , level for months , get epic , farm platniummms

get fresh huggies

log on red

get coined

the end


please see my sig thx

[Dekrastius]

Lol @ godbox. Truth is the truth on that one. I have great respect for SK's but not as pullers.

I'd love to play a monk but I dont have the patience to solo at such a slow pace. I wont be playing as a group player due to time constraints. So I'll be sticking to a solo class.

Twinked / properly equipped monks are probably one of the best DPS classes later in life (60 + fully geared up)... Add max skills with major pulling experience, etc... Monks are indispensible.

Cheers.