Ragefire Agreement/Rotation

[Ele]

The clerics from (IB/TMO/VD) currently in Nagafen’s Lair have come to a set of terms regarding the Ragefire camp, which we believe the rest of the server and other guilds can accept.

As a background into this set of terms, it is understood that Ragefire is currently in a broken spawn state with only one Ragefire spawning per one Nagafen. This has been fixed pending update, wherein Ragefire will spawn 0-72 hours after Nagafen’s death, and 0-72 hours after each Ragefire’s death until Nagafen is respawned. This patch has not been introduced and no known patch date has been made public; this is causing an artificial and unnecessary rarity in Ragefire’s spawn.

Another point raising the necessity for a rotation is that of wasted person-hours. The clerics and guilds currently spam-clicking empty air have collectively invested hundreds if not a thousand person-hours in time with only a single Ragefire spawn to show for it. This rotation list, as described below, will greatly enhance each of these cleric’s enjoyment of the game, allow them to spend time on other guild/group functions, and regain some semblance of stability by knowing when they will achieve their Ragefire.

The terms as stated at this point:

As of this writing and over the course of the last two and half weeks, five clerics have spent far and above more time on the camp than anyone else. These clerics are, in no particular order: Kolevii (IB), Xeli (TMO), Nirron (IB), Elethia (TMO), Relapsee (IB).

The five clerics, above, currently with the most time invested will decide amongst themselves a list to camp Ragefire and turn in their pearls. Once these five clerics have turned in their pearls and received Ragefire’s Heart, a guild rotation system will be implemented.

The guild leaders of TMO, IB, and VD, or their appointed representatives, will meet at an agreed time to /random for their guild’s position in the Ragefire rotation. Suggestion was 8pm EST tonight JAN/18/2012, but of course can be scheduled later based on the above five clerics completing their Ragefires. Once a guild’s position is set in the rotation, each individual guild can determine internally how to distribute their Ragefire spot amongst their clerics.

It is important to remember that the haste with which this patch is implemented will greatly impact the speed at which this rotation will function. Once it is implemented however, we expect all clerics currently holding pearls to receive their Ragefire within 6-8 weeks.

Due to the nature of the Cleric epic and Ragefire spawn, it is required that Nagafen be killed in order for Ragefire to spawn. The three guilds currently in this rotation are looking at ways to incorporate other guilds/clerics into this agreement once the rotation becomes implemented. At the current rate of Ragefire spawns, without the patch, this is at least 7-8 weeks out. Thoughts and input are welcomed on this point.

-Elethia

[Kole1]

for the health of us all I agree

[Nirron]

for the health of us all I agree

[Morsakin]

Sounds reasonable and level-headed. Best of luck to you all.

[Extunarian]

and there was great rejoicing

[maverixdamighty]

ninik gnome not included! glad something is coming about.

[Extunarian]

ninik gnome not included! glad something is coming about.

As much as most of us would like to see ninik get an epic, I think it is pretty fair that those folks who have already invested far, far too many hours into this camp not get shafted. I think Ninik would agree!

I am guessing she's #1 on the list once the patch comes out and the first wave of clerics from ib/tmo/vd get their sprinklers and the rotation gets opened up some. I hope so anyway.

[Maultriss]

Agreed!

[Ele]

The five clerics, Kolevii (IB), Xeli (TMO), Nirron (IB), Elethia (TMO), and Relapsee (IB), have decided that the first five Ragefires (including current one) will be distributed as follows:

1. TMO
2. IB
3. IB
4. TMO
5. IB

Then guild rotation starts up after that point which will be determined at a later time.

[Glitterati]

How does a guild enter the rotation? I know Taken and Divinity have a couple clerics between us who are ready for Ragefire but just don't participate in the bullshit that goes on for mobs around here sometimes.

[relapsee69]

GL xeli or elethia on this epic glad i can finally let my mouse rest after 30+hours awake straight this window. See you on the battlefield.

[quido]

How does a guild enter the rotation? I know Taken and Divinity have a couple clerics between us who are ready for Ragefire but just don't participate in the bullshit that goes on for mobs around here sometimes.

You have to demonstrate that you're willing to engage in the bullshit =)

[Skope]

You have to demonstrate that you're willing to engage in the bullshit =)

aka poopsock a mob that shouldn't be on a massive window due to unnecessary variances.

Thanks again, Rogean. Good work :D

I just wanna say, clerics like Ninik and Wiggles who've done this server more good than any other 2 players I can possibly think of and actually play rather than poopsock endlessly (buff noobs, give out stuff, travel hours across zones to help people get rezzes, i know this because i've ported them countless times to do so) aren't willing to partake in that bullshit and thus get shafted. So when I do sarcastically say that Rogean fucked up, I do really mean it. You dun really fucked up. It's reasons like these that the server is hopelessly losing pop and becoming 2-guild heavy. You've gotta fix this

It's also why you lose good players and great people and get left with assholes...

[Aunt Bedelia]

inb4 a redtards chimes in

[quido]

You have to demonstrate that you're willing to engage in the bullshit =)

Unfortunately VD doesn't have to demonstrate that on a consistent basis to get let into these rotations. They get a free pass to wallow in mediocrity.

[Glitterati]

You have to demonstrate that you're willing to engage in the bullshit =)

Did you just ask me to marry you? LOL

[quido]

Did you just ask me to marry you? LOL

Maybe ;-)

I'm just saying, VD only showed up to this Ragefire bullshit like a couple days ago. (They only showed up to the Trakanon bullshit a few weeks prior.) Why will they now get an equal piece of the pie after the "Committed Five?"

Glitterati, you should just roll in with Taken in spite of this rotation deal and demand an equal piece of the rotation pie after a day or two of poopsocking. You'd have every bit as much right as fucking Vesica Dei.

[Bruman]

Looks like you forgot a word at the end of your sentence, or you put something in HMTL tags.

Anyways, good luck on getting it worked out, but making up rules like "We only let you in unless your life situation allows you to click an empty spot of air for 30 hours" won't work well.

Just because some of you all were silly enough to do that doesn't mean you should expect everyone else to be that way. That's not "work" or "effort". It's bad decisions.

[Raavak]

Cheers to the P99 cleric community!

[Kole1]

the idea behind this isn't screw with other guilds, its to add certainty to what is a completely uncertain situation right now.

A situation where Amelinda has to come in and deal with 10 people in a circle, losing their quest items, asking for reimbursements and raging on each other for no good reason.

Its a stressful potentially 72 hour journey that works better when you dont worry about someone snaking into the lair and beating you at a turn in and gettin an epic.

Cleric epic was like all epics--for raidin guilds who could get them. And to whoever posted bashin VD. VD doesn't have many active clerics, so its entirely possible their tenure on the list achieves its goal. We worked this out with room to work in other people, but this was the best we could do .

At the same time, we would like to have a 3 day festival for Ninik's Epic Poopsock when the time comes.

[maverixdamighty]

think this is a good idea but don't like the idea of 5 more ib/tmo clerics getting it before it is spread out. just my opinion. there are plenty of other guilds that can come together and sock the mob if it came to that.

[Skope]

At the same time, we would like to have a 3 day festival for Ninik's Epic Poopsock when the time comes.

Who the fuck are you kidding? You decide amongst 3 guilds willing to poopsock and then claim you've done it fairly? Make it a server thread, nonetheless? If you're gonna come up with a rotation, great, but bear in mind if I happen to be there myself on a char I won't mind KSing that because it doesn't apply to me or a whole slew of other people (Hi, Amelinda. I'm here to give you work to prove a point); and that's essentially where that all falls apart. This notion that you actually care for others is about the silliest thing I've heard in a while considering clerics within their own respective guilds are competing against each other. That's just pathetic.

Frankly, this epitomizes why this server's taking a tumble. Lying, secret meetings and handshakes for personal gain and then come outside the door with a smile and say you've helped everyone. You've helped Amelinda and told everyone else to fuck off, and if this is the route you'd like to take then I'd like to personally give Amelinda more work to do.

[Maultriss]

The first epic was pretty much an IB only affair as nobody else had a pearl. Last week was the first open poopsock where more than one guild was ready. We're not talking like this has been going on for months and now VD jumps in. I never for once thought I should be at the front of the line after putting in my 25 hours vs. the top five and encouraged them to be at the front of the line because they deserve that.

So dump on us all you want but I wanted this to be fair to those who have served time the last 2 weeks.

[Ele]

Please don't bring this thread down with comments that belong in RnF. This is meant for civil discussion so as to end the insanity clerics are currently facing.

For additional guilds seeking to join in: a *thought* was that once the first rotation cycle completes, the next Nagafen (i.e., fourth one to pop) would be the stepping stone for a guild to jump into the rotation. For that reason it was *discussed* that Nagafen might become a target of opportunity and left open on that fourth spawn instead of an instant-rush-to-kill target by the listed guilds.

Of course, this applies to the current state of the spawn cycle. Once the patch is implemented it will produce a lot more Ragefires and there shouldn't be any problem incorporating other guilds/groups.

[Skope]

Please don't bring this thread down with comments that belong in RnF. This is meant for civil discussion so as to end the insanity clerics are currently facing.

For additional guilds seeking to join in: a *thought* was that once the first rotation cycle completes, the next Nagafen (i.e., fourth one to pop) would be the stepping stone for a guild to jump into the rotation. For that reason it was *discussed* that Nagafen might become a target of opportunity and left open on that fourth spawn instead of an instant-rush-to-kill target by the listed guilds.

Of course, this applies to the current state of the spawn cycle. Once the patch is implemented it will produce a lot more Ragefires and there shouldn't be any problem incorporating other guilds/groups.

Of the above nothing at all is noted in the original post, so I'm assuming you want me to fill that part in myself and read your mind. Cool. Re-read your post again and maybe you can tell me how it wasn't snobbish, selfish and completely ignoring the majority of the server. That kind of post belongs between the 3 guilds and if another were willing to come in and KS you'd have quite a bit of trouble on your hands. Clarity might be something to strive for

[Ungriim]

Quick Jeremy! Troll on your own teamates harder!

[maverixdamighty]

once again just my opinion but that suggestion would just lead all other guilds to come together and sock the mob together for a chance to get a cleric epic. there needs to be a slot earlier on for the other guilds to have a chance at getting an epic or there is no incentive for anyone other than ib/tmo/vd to comply.

[Skope]

which is why this thread belongs in RnF or on the guild's web page and not general chat, because for the majority it currently doesn't apply. That said, until it does I think i may be having some fun in solb

[Glitterati]

Of course, this applies to the current state of the spawn cycle. Once the patch is implemented it will produce a lot more Ragefires and there shouldn't be any problem incorporating other guilds/groups.

Which is why I'm curious how other guilds will be let into your rotation? Cause after that patch Taken will be there a lot more frequently with our clerics ready for Ragefire.

[Kole1]

completely ignoring the majority of the server. r

those in the lair today were asked to try and reach an amicable agreement.

those in the lair today.


TMO, IB, VD. We figured a solution for those in the lair first because that's what was most pressing. If this works out, people who normally don't kill Nagafen might get a chance to kill nagafen now too...

that helps the server, right?

[Skope]

those in the lair today were asked to try and reach an amicable agreement.

those in the lair today.


TMO, IB, VD. We figured a solution for those in the lair first because that's what was most pressing. If this works out, people who normally don't kill Nagafen might get a chance to kill nagafen now too...

that helps the server, right?

No it doesn't, because it doesn't apply to anyone else. Think about it. I can roll in there right now and poopsock, KS it and your whole agreement takes a shit. You need to wake up. This agreement is an agreement between 3 guilds, that's all. It doesn't apply to anyone else and in its current state, nor should it. Why this was posted here is beyond me

[Bruman]

once again just my opinion but that suggestion would just lead all other guilds to come together and sock the mob together for a chance to get a cleric epic. there needs to be a slot earlier on for the other guilds to have a chance at getting an epic or there is no incentive for anyone other than ib/tmo/vd to comply.

The problem is making the socking part of the requirement. There's no skill or effort to socking - just being stupid enough to do it. Note - yes, I have socked a few times. And I'm dumb for it.

But after my through-the-night socking for one part of my epic, immediately after, it dropped again! And after that, A THIRD! Crazy luck. But did I demand the third piece for myself again (to MQ, etc)? No. We logged on a guildie's monk to give it to him. We work together as a guild. We congratulate and help each other out. We do not look to stop, hinder, or block our guildmates from getting their pixels too. Personally, I don't even do those things towards any other player at all. I don't really care if you get your pixels before me. I'm happy to let you know when this rare quest mob is up, not kill him so you're stuck again. Now, I'd tell my guildies first, sure - but after that, it's all good :).

But the whole socking thing can be avoided across the whole server for these bottlenecks and contested camps. But someone always degrades to poopsocking because their life allows for it, then somehow makes the leap that it's "effort" and means "they worked harder". They just worked dumber. That would mean more sharing though, and people would rather 'sock a mob (since they have nothing else to do with their time). Even if you have nothing going on in your life but EQ, there's still other things in EQ to do other than 'sock a mob.

Heh, didn't mean to rant. But it's pertinent. Continue to flame on!

[Lishrac]

I'm new, I'm not a cleric, I'm not in any of these guilds, and I haven't even stepped foot into Nags Lair. This is to show how little this situation really affects me. On that note I have a couple questions.

Didn't the animosity end in the previous thread when it was suggested that Ninik should get her epic first? What happened to that?

[maverixdamighty]

there are very few things in the game that are worth socking, but having a cleric epic in a guild is one of them if I had to pick the the top one.

[Ele]

The first epic was pretty much an IB only affair as nobody else had a pearl. Last week was the first open poopsock where more than one guild was ready. We're not talking like this has been going on for months and now VD jumps in. I never for once thought I should be at the front of the line after putting in my 25 hours vs. the top five and encouraged them to be at the front of the line because they deserve that.

So dump on us all you want but I wanted this to be fair to those who have served time the last 2 weeks.

The first Ragefire basically consisted of IB walking in to Nagafen's Lair and killing Ragefire, no camping involved. Not knowing that the spawn was completely fubar'd IB and TMO clerics continued the camp after Getsome's Ragefire until the next Nagafen spawned and 72 hours after that when the second Ragefire spawned.

This third expected Ragefire has already gone 41 hours since Nagafen died, and another set of 10 clerics (TMO/IB/VD) spent time in lair clicking air.

[Skope]

there are very few things in the game that are worth socking, but having a cleric epic in a guild is one of them if I had to pick the the top one.

And there's still no need for it. It's the reason pops taken a shit and continues to nosedive while unnecessary and unclassic variances get added. The notion that people can actually sleep and lead social lives and still play P99 has been lost for a while now and here it's taken to the absolute extreme and here's a perfect example of it.

Calling out Rogean again for being an idiot and let shit like this happen... maybe he'll fucking listen one day? who knows.

[Kole1]

its going to be changed to multiple spawns a week. (hopefully soon).

Then this bottleneck will be gone, and everyone can get epics much quicker. If this were a 1 week spawn forever, then this would be a completely unfair agreement.

Once the epic is how it was on classic ( EQcleric forums from back in the day suggest 3+ a week is possible. ), this whole initial feeling of disgust will be "gee I'm glad no one from IB/TMO/VD is in here poopsocking against ME. It's easy to complain that this is front loaded to benefit the guilds in the lair...but I ask

Do the people complaining realize how horrible this camp is right now, and how much better it will be soon, and how this agreement lets many many people enjoy playing on this server without looking over their shoulder IF this is honored long term? Don't think short term, think long term. This attempts to solve both.

[Skope]

Your agreement doesn't apply to anyone but you and a few people, so why should we care at all? Why make it a general chat thread? We don't care. Do you really think people are happy you've decided it's stupid to sit there for weeks for something you could have had without having to stoop to idiotic behavior for? Do you really want a pat on the back for that? Sweet jesus, you're not very bright are you?

[maverixdamighty]

not complaining just offering a different point of view/suggestion. the agreement in place is not a server agreement atm it's a 3 guild agreement with the possibility to expand to more later on when you guys don't need it anymore. If that's not the goal then you can clarify, but that's how it comes across.

there are quite a few other guilds ready for ragefire i'm probably not listing all of them but bda/taken/divinity i'm sure there are more.

I'd suggest if you want to do something for the server that 2 out of every 3 ragefire spawns go to the trio of (ib/tmo/vd) with the 3rd going to (bda/taken/divinity) etc. Just a suggestion.

[quido]

aka poopsock a mob that shouldn't be on a massive window due to unnecessary variances.

Thanks again, Rogean. Good work :D

I just wanna say, clerics like Ninik and Wiggles who've done this server more good than any other 2 players I can possibly think of and actually play rather than poopsock endlessly (buff noobs, give out stuff, travel hours across zones to help people get rezzes, i know this because i've ported them countless times to do so) aren't willing to partake in that bullshit and thus get shafted. So when I do sarcastically say that Rogean fucked up, I do really mean it. You dun really fucked up. It's reasons like these that the server is hopelessly losing pop and becoming 2-guild heavy. You've gotta fix this

It's also why you lose good players and great people and get left with assholes...

Yes I know some of you non-serious guilds think of yourselves as the benevolent white knights of Norrath and all those who engage in ruthless competition on the raid scene as the scourge, but that's fucking retarded. You act like Divinity is the only guild that's ever done a kind deed and has completely avoided any wrongdoing. I've seen both kindness and asshattery come from Divinity in the past. I don't know, maybe each of you in Divinity now are a fucking Jesus Christ in your own right; I wouldn't know.

If you want something.... TAKE IT!!

What I love about Everquest is the self-determination. No, retards, I don't mean that people are determined, though they are; I mean that you are the master of your own destiny. If you want something, all you have to do is want it more than the next guy and act accordingly. Playing Everquest extremely well is an art, but having sufficient skill to do this and that is not that difficult. I had never played Everquest (or any MMO) before this server and now I'm better than 99% of you at it. Everybody knows what is required to get (blank) done, but most people are not willing to muster the time and effort to do so.

I think if you asked a great number of "family style" guilds what it is they would change about this, their responses would altogether boil down to "I want Everquest welfare - give me shit I wouldn't otherwise have because I am not capable/willing enough to get it legitimately." Rather than bitch about the fact that Norrath, like Earth, is a land of haves and have-nots, you should just try to convince the staff to open up another server to spread out the competition. I understand that on live when people didn't like other hardcore players dominating content, they would just move to another server where the competition was more thin. Don't try to advocate Socialism in Norrath just because you don't have another server choice and/or you don't have what it takes to cut it here.

Furthermore, I'm getting really sick of seeing what I call "the defensive second tier guild mentality" in which people always assume the worst about whoever it is. I'm talking about the situation where maybe a tank is snoozing a little and another group pulls a mob through his camp and he attacks the mob and has to listen to /ooc nonsense about how TMO/IB never respect the rules and just do whatever they want and blah blah blah. Don't be a fucking retard and acknowledge the possibility of an honest mistake. I for one am not shy to flip out on people when they act against me (or my pals) with definite malice, but consider at first that most people aren't "out to get you." It's kind of funny that when a similar unfortunate incident occurs with people outside of second tier guilds, they're altogether pretty cool about it. I can't count the number of times I've been trained/inconvenienced, but I can tell you that most of the times it's happened without malice and without extremely negligent inconsideration, my response has been "lol shit happens." BDA is the worst about demonstrating "the defensive second tier guild mentality." And let me tell you, if you automatically just assume the worst and take it to /say or /ooc immediately, I'm just going to live up to your expectations many times over.

Short summary: Don't be a bitch and stop fucking crying.

[Glitterati]

Look, I have not had Taken in that lair competing for a busted ass spawn, why add to that drama. After that patch when there is 3+ a week spawning, Taken is gonna be in that lair. Just saying.

[Ele]

Of the above nothing at all is noted in the original post, so I'm assuming you want me to fill that part in myself and read your mind. Cool. Re-read your post again and maybe you can tell me how it wasn't snobbish, selfish and completely ignoring the majority of the server. That kind of post belongs between the 3 guilds and if another were willing to come in and KS you'd have quite a bit of trouble on your hands. Clarity might be something to strive for

The last couple of paragraphs of the original addressed this issue, although not as directly as my subsequent post. We requested input from the other guilds that would be participating.

Apologies if the original post was taken as offensive, snobbish, or rude, the clerics in the lair by no means want to thumb their noses at the other clerics the server. We are open to input to ease the tension server-wide concerning this camp.

[quido]

Please don't bring this thread down with comments that belong in RnF. This is meant for civil discussion so as to end the insanity clerics are currently facing.

I'm sorry Elethia, but this thread should have never been in Server Chat - too hot a topic.

[maverixdamighty]

Yes I know some of you non-serious guilds think of yourselves as the benevolent white knights of Norrath and all those who engage in ruthless competition on the raid scene as the scourge, but that's fucking retarded. You act like Divinity is the only guild that's ever done a kind deed and has completely avoided any wrongdoing. I've seen both kindness and asshattery come from Divinity in the past. I don't know, maybe each of you in Divinity now are a fucking Jesus Christ in your own right; I wouldn't know.

If you want something.... TAKE IT!!

What I love about Everquest is the self-determination. No, retards, I don't mean that people are determined, though they are; I mean that you are the master of your own destiny. If you want something, all you have to do is want it more than the next guy and act accordingly. Playing Everquest extremely well is an art, but having sufficient skill to do this and that is not that difficult. I had never played Everquest (or any MMO) before this server and now I'm better than 99% of you at it. Everybody knows what is required to get (blank) done, but most people are not willing to muster the time and effort to do so.

I think if you asked a great number of "family style" guilds what it is they would change about this, their responses would altogether boil down to "I want Everquest welfare - give me shit I wouldn't otherwise have because I am not capable/willing enough to get it legitimately." Rather than bitch about the fact that Norrath, like Earth, is a land of haves and have-nots, you should just try to convince the staff to open up another server to spread out the competition. I understand that on live when people didn't like other hardcore players dominating content, they would just move to another server where the competition was more thin. Don't try to advocate Socialism in Norrath just because you don't have another server choice and/or you don't have what it takes to cut it here.

Furthermore, I'm getting really sick of seeing what I call "the defensive second tier guild mentality" in which people always assume the worst about whoever it is. I'm talking about the situation where maybe a tank is snoozing a little and another group pulls a mob through his camp and he attacks the mob and has to listen to /ooc nonsense about how TMO/IB never respect the rules and just do whatever they want and blah blah blah. Don't be a fucking retard and acknowledge the possibility of an honest mistake. I for one am not shy to flip out on people when they act against me (or my pals) with definite malice, but consider at first that most people aren't "out to get you." It's kind of funny that when a similar unfortunate incident occurs with people outside of second tier guilds, they're altogether pretty cool about it. I can't count the number of times I've been trained/inconvenienced, but I can tell you that most of the times it's happened without malice and without extremely negligent inconsideration, my response has been "lol shit happens." BDA is the worst about demonstrating "the defensive second tier guild mentality." And let me tell you, if you automatically just assume the worst and take it to /say or /ooc immediately, I'm just going to live up to your expectations many times over.

Short summary: Don't be a bitch and stop fucking crying.

No offense but you saying you are better than 99% of people playing this made me laugh. If your reading comprehension is lacking that much people are saying if the rotation was done this way there would be guilds there competing for it...

[Skope]

Jeremy, remember when divinity killed a good 75% of everything that popped within a month and for a good while wasn't just "white knight" but rather one of the (and for a couple months THE) premier guilds on the server? To hear you talk about somebody else being morally superior is about the funniest thing on the planet, considering you should still be banned for boxing. I guess you should be thanking the same Rogean I keep calling out for idiotic decisions, letting you off the hook being one of them.

Wanna ask me what happened and why that fell apart? Variance. If it were classic, I can guarantee you we'd still be up there but nobody in this guild is willing to poopsock for years. We tracked, mobilized and competed and when guilds cheated is when Rogean took a nice hot dump down our throat for doing it fairly. Same still applies here. Poopsocking endlessly on mobs that needn't have a massive window (or a window at all) and then bitching about how other people aren't willing to put in that unnecessary time. You're right. Unfortunately, that sort of thinking is why you've got like 400-500 people playing here and if you wanna ride that failtrain until the server takes a dump and crown yourself the king of the hill when everyone's left then so be it. You'll look great in a crown, princess.

[Sizzle]

So what is stopping other guilds from coming in and just sitting on it and actually getting ragefire when they aren't in this said "line"?

[Bruman]

Man, some of you dudes completely miss the point! This is a game.

Not wanting to poopsock doesn't equal welfare. Welfare would be if people weren't willing to kill the mobs themselves. Noone is ever suggesting that. We want the fights, we want them to be the difficulty they should be.

Quit defending poopsocking (man, I'm so tired of this damn word, can we get another one?) as "putting in effort", or something to value. It's not. It's fucking retarded. Comparing it to socialism? Lawl. Stay on topic, brah. Keep the hyperbole in check a little, please.

Also, to the other part of your post, Jeremy - I, for one, always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Shit happens, especially in this buggy game. I'm sorry if any BDA has "jumped the gun" on making a conclusion. It's something I try to keep people from doing, and will continue to do so, especially within my guild.

[quido]

Jeremy, remember when divinity killed a good 75% of everything that popped within a month and for a good while wasn't just "white knight" but rather one of the premier guilds on the server? To hear you talk about somebody else being morally superior is about the funniest thing on the planet, considering you should still be banned for boxing.

Wanna ask me what happened and why that fell apart? Variance. If it were classic, I can guarantee you we'd still be up there but nobody in this guild is willing to poopsock for years. We tracked, mobilized and competed and when guilds cheated is when Rogean took a nice hot dump down our throat for doing it fairly. Same still applies here. Poopsocking endlessly on mobs that needn't have a massive window (or a window at all) and then bitching about how other people aren't willing to put in that unnecessary time. You're right. Unfortunately, that sort of thinking is why you've got like 400-500 people playing here and if you wanna ride that train until the server takes a dump and crown yourself the king of the hill when everyone's left then so be it.

People have been claiming the server has been dying for years now. Please just shut up. The server is pretty healthy, if you ask me.

I'm not claiming anything about anyone being morally superior - you are. I'm telling you that you're a fucking twit.

Face reality and stop crying Skope. Woulda shoulda coulda... didn'ta!!

[quido]

I'm going to buy a cleric and form my own guild and demand he get his ragefire as soon as anyone, now that the going is easy. That's what we're doing, right?!

[Skope]

things that stop some guilds from sitting on pops:

jobs
family
social lives

Currently, and for years now this server caters to those that don't fall within that category. Apparently, this agreement only furthers that and disregards the above. Jeremy, I don't think I need to remind you how many more people we had and how much more spread out the pop was, you date back and yet still ignore it. Or that your views on right and wrong are worth about as much as Loke's.

[ShinraTensei]

things that stop some guilds from sitting on pops:

jobs
family
social lives

Things that stop real life people from becoming millionaires, pro athletes, scholars, astronauts:

jobs
family
social lives

*see what I did thurr?*

[Kole1]

the clerics in the lair by no means want to thumb their noses at the other clerics the server. We are open to input to ease the tension server-wide concerning this camp.

the real purpose of the OP right here. Remember, this is going to be reverting to a classic variance, but it still requires a guild to kill nagafen to start the timer.

So...let's actually look for a way to work this out not just rant about it.

If an alliance of guilds kills Nagafen, then get on the rotation. Problem. Currently only 3 guilds kill nagafen.
Solution Those 3 guilds could agree to give a set amount of time to kill Nagafen. Nagafen doesn't die within XYZ, thenyou are not on list yet. Nagafen spawns again next week. XYZ hours pass, nagafen doesnt die to the alliance --you are still not on list yet. Multiple guilds want in rotation at the same time? Alternate turns. Win against Nagafen, assume control of that Ragefire, you are now in rotation, bump all back 1.

If you can't kill nagafen by your own, you cant actually gain access to the lair if Nagafen were left up. Which leads to the obviously bad situation of, now 3 guilds arent killing Nagafen and aren't getting Ragefires, to keep other guilds out who want to free-ride on an open lair with no Nagafen. which no one wants. We want a solution that produces epics for the server that doesn't involve people clickin like mad for 72 hours.

Anyone saying theyre bringing people to poopsock for 3 days...try getting your clerics to click into empty space for 72 hours, every time Ragefire is in window...see how fun it is. Two guilds who normally cant agree on anything agreed to this in hours. It's that bad

[Bruman]

The only rub with killing Nagafen is the "spend time to level up alts to 52 and cap them" to kill him. That was an idea that worked well on live servers, because the "top end" guilds often moved on, and smaller guilds and pugs then went for Naggy (I realize not all servers were this way, but it did happen).

Here though, with much more stale content, he's still contested for some reason. The level cap on Naggy doesn't fit this server. Lots of things about live don't fit this server.

[Bruman]

Things that stop real life people from becoming millionaires, pro athletes, scholars, astronauts:

jobs
family
social lives

*see what I did thurr?*

People become those things as part of their job. That's why they get paid for it. What I see is that you made a broken argument, proving the point. A game is the not the same as real life, even though some of you seem to think it is.

I'm going to buy a cleric and form my own guild and demand he get his ragefire as soon as anyone, now that the going is easy. That's what we're doing, right?!

If your guild can kill Ragefire, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get in line.

[Sizzle]

things that stop some guilds from sitting on pops:

jobs
family
social lives

Of course, but they don't want to do things like on live, i mean server is much more stable than live servers used to be. This argument has been here FOREVER but stimulated server downs/repops just wont happen. In order to get the top tier loots you can not have a social life.

But real talk here. If they want to sit infront of their computers day in and day out let em. Eventually they will grow old and die or find themselves on the streets begging with a cardboard sign "Lost job - p99 went down, blame SOPA will work for pixels" all while they remember the hundreds of hours they spent sitting on a spawn waiting for a dragon. News flash, dragons aren't real you can take your plate armor off now its just a game =D

[ShinraTensei]

The only rub with killing Nagafen is the "spend time to level up alts to 52 and cap them" to kill him. That was an idea that worked well on live servers, because the "top end" guilds often moved on, and smaller guilds and pugs then went for Naggy (I realize not all servers were this way, but it did happen).

Here though, with much more stale content, he's still contested for some reason. The level cap on Naggy doesn't fit this server. Lots of things about live don't fit this server.


But this is a key point here. Currently, Nagafen is heavily contested by IB/VD/TMO. Which means, he dies the moment he spawns. The other guilds that want to get in on the list want IB/VD/TMO to concede their spots(after camping for countless hours) at ragefire, AND clear nagafen for them OR give nagafen up for an unknown amount of time for other guilds to kill.

If that isn't asking for communist charity, I don't know what is. Just think about it objectively. What incentive does IB/VD/TMO have to give all of the above up? Really looking for a good answer here.

[quido]

If your guild can kill Ragefire, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get in line.

Based on the precedent set in the Trakanon rotation, it is not a requirement that said guild in the rotation be able to drop the target by themselves. As has been shown by IB and VD, you are allowed to seek help from other guilds, even those that have their own slot in the rotation!!

[Skope]

If classic variance were enabled or serverpops you'd see a very different scenario, Shinra. There's a reason why this server has a massive turnover rate and the top guilds are leading in that respect, and it's not because you guys are awesome to poopsock with. I'd say it's probably because you have to sit for days when it was only required for hours on live. Personally speaking, I'd wager div would get a couple targets a week if that were the case, unfortunately Rogean's a fucking dumbass and only listens to people like you or whoever is in irc/mumble at the time

[maverixdamighty]

if you don't think naggy would die if ib/tmo/vd didn't kill him then you are just naive.

[ShinraTensei]

People become those things as part of their job. That's why they get paid for it. What I see is that you made a broken argument, proving the point. A game is the not the same as real life, even though some of you seem to think it is.



If your guild can kill Ragefire, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get in line.

But who are you to make a judgement on how people spend their time in life? That is MY point. There is no broken argument or an argument at all. Anyone can claim "I can't do X because I have to do Y". The fact of the matter is, people are entitled to how they spend their life/time... Game or not.

[Hottbiscuits Dreadmuffin]

DISCLAIMER: My purpose is not to flame. I do not have any ill sentiment toward any of the clerics listed in Elethia's original post. (Hi Elethia -- I like you :)) I would just like to know how this'll work for guilds not part of the mega trio.

While I agree that a rotation is a wonderful idea, what if a guild not in your listed three would like to participate? Would they be moved to the bottom of the "rotation" list? Would they be disregarded because they didn't put in the poopsocking hours?

Say VD is granted first go at this rotation, followed by TMO and then IB.
VD gets their Ragefire.
Then TMO gets theirs.
Suddenly, a new guild wants to participate! Do they get to go right after IB? Or would there be a "rearrangement" because VD and TMO just got pushed back?

Once you all decide on the rotation, how does anyone else partake? Or is this strictly for those three guilds, because you all had poopsockers there since the beginning?

Will other guilds have any say in the rotation rules once they're a part of it? Or will all decisions regarding Ragefire only be made by the Committee of The Inglourious Mystical Basterds of Vesica Dei?

Also...

...and how this agreement lets many many people enjoy playing on this server without looking over their shoulder IF this is honored long term? Don't think short term, think long term. This attempts to solve both.

What if IB (previously TR) reverts again to a prior guild tag so they don't have to honor this agreement?

[Skope]

But who are you to make a judgement on how people spend their time in life? That is MY point. There is no broken argument or an argument at all. Anyone can claim "I can't do X because I have to do Y". The fact of the matter is, people are entitled to how they spend their life/time... Game or not.

Then don't get pissy when I make fun of you.

[maverixdamighty]

Agreed if you want to sock more power to you, but making an agreement between 3 guilds and expecting everyone else to just go along with it with no incentive is a bit far fetched.

[ShinraTensei]

Then don't get pissy when I make fun of you.

You made fun of me? Where?

[quido]

Agreed if you want to sock more power to you, but making an agreement between 3 guilds and expecting everyone else to just go along with it with no incentive is a bit far fetched.

I wouldn't expect anyone to go along with it. I'd be similarly perturbed by it if I were you. It is your prerogative to roll into SolB and turn it into a spam-click fest again, but you have the accept the consequences of doing so =)

[Autotune]

This rotation should not have been posted until it had run it's initial ib/tmo course and actually included everyone. People are too stupid to realize past their own interests.

First, there is nothing stopping anyone from breaking this, I agree. However, It most likely won't be IB or TMO fucking with each other. Thus, if a random from some guild comes to mess with another guild, you're going to see that guild get shit on by IB/TMO for making their collective lives harder (we do it to each other, don't think we won't do it to you).

Second, While I do agree Ninik deserves her epic more than most of the clerics on this server, I can understand the 'time invested' part. This pre-rotation of rotations will run it's course then all the other guilds can run in and start their own bullshit if they want (i'm sure it will happen).

So yeah, Taken, BDA, Divinity or any other guild could come in and start clicking IB or TMO's air, but what you're opening is going to be way worse than what you imagine. As you will effectively guarantee that your guild not get an epic as easy as you would have.

Aka, you idiots just don't know.

[Skope]

This rotation should not have been posted until it had run it's initial ib/tmo course and actually included everyone. People are too stupid to realize past their own interests.

First, there is nothing stopping anyone from breaking this, I agree. However, It most likely won't be IB or TMO fucking with each other. Thus, if a random from some guild comes to mess with another guild, you're going to see that guild get shit on by IB/TMO for making their collective lives harder (we do it to each other, don't think we won't do it to you).

Second, While I do agree Ninik deserves her epic more than most of the clerics on this server, I can understand the 'time invested' part. This pre-rotation of rotations will run it's course then all the other guilds can run in and start their own bullshit if they want (i'm sure it will happen).

So yeah, Taken, BDA, Divinity or any other guild could come in and start clicking IB or TMO's air, but what you're opening is going to be way worse than what you imagine. As you will effectively guarantee that your guild not get an epic as easy as you would have.

Aka, you idiots just don't know.

Frankly, if something this short-sighted and idiotic is posted as a general "here you go, server. You're welcome" you should be expecting this sort of flaming and even hostility towards the top 3. Ele, I don't know you and you seem okay, but this is without a doubt an incredibly stupid and nonsensical post that doesn't deserve the bandwidth it's being hosted on. Just edit, delete and come back when you've got something worth reading

[Dravingar]

This rotation should not have been posted until it had run it's initial ib/tmo course and actually included everyone. People are too stupid to realize past their own interests.

First, there is nothing stopping anyone from breaking this, I agree. However, It most likely won't be IB or TMO fucking with each other. Thus, if a random from some guild comes to mess with another guild, you're going to see that guild get shit on by IB/TMO for making their collective lives harder (we do it to each other, don't think we won't do it to you).

Second, While I do agree Ninik deserves her epic more than most of the clerics on this server, I can understand the 'time invested' part. This pre-rotation of rotations will run it's course then all the other guilds can run in and start their own bullshit if they want (i'm sure it will happen).

So yeah, Taken, BDA, Divinity or any other guild could come in and start clicking IB or TMO's air, but what you're opening is going to be way worse than what you imagine. As you will effectively guarantee that your guild not get an epic as easy as you would have.

Aka, you idiots just don't know.

Jesus christ, I can't believe I am saying this but I agree 100% with stealin.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Aside from the opportunists using this as an opportunity to do some soap-boxing, I'm not certain what everyone's agenda is here.

I have to ask, why are some of you so offended by the OP?

The way I see it, a private agreement was created. Said agreement might have some impact on others not subject to it. As a courtesy, the community was put on notice.

Worst case scenario, Elethia wasted some real estate on the general forum's front page. Is that really so offensive?

[ShinraTensei]

I wouldn't expect anyone to go along with it. I'd be similarly perturbed by it if I were you. It is your prerogative to roll into SolB and turn it into a spam-click fest again, but you have the accept the consequences of doing so =)

Which is funny because that is exactly what they are complaining about.

What I see here is a group of people investing time into a camp... and working out a decision/agreement that is mutually beneficial.

Then, a passerby who has NOT invested that same time for the camp, arguing that they are not part of the decision/agreement. What's wrong with this picture? The self entitlement here is just disgusting. What, you have social/work/blah blah blah? So YOUR time is worth more than OTHER'S time? Get off the horse already.

[relapsee69]

This rotation should not have been posted until it had run it's initial ib/tmo course and actually included everyone. People are too stupid to realize past their own interests.

First, there is nothing stopping anyone from breaking this, I agree. However, It most likely won't be IB or TMO fucking with each other. Thus, if a random from some guild comes to mess with another guild, you're going to see that guild get shit on by IB/TMO for making their collective lives harder (we do it to each other, don't think we won't do it to you).

Second, While I do agree Ninik deserves her epic more than most of the clerics on this server, I can understand the 'time invested' part. This pre-rotation of rotations will run it's course then all the other guilds can run in and start their own bullshit if they want (i'm sure it will happen).

So yeah, Taken, BDA, Divinity or any other guild could come in and start clicking IB or TMO's air, but what you're opening is going to be way worse than what you imagine. As you will effectively guarantee that your guild not get an epic as easy as you would have.

Aka, you idiots just don't know.


Agreed ^

[maverixdamighty]

mess with the rotation and you will get bullied... got it!

[Acillatem]

I look at it as more of finding a "compromise" to the solution. Right now the only 3 guilds demonstrating the *ability* to kill Naggy (the trigger mob) are IB/TMO/VD.

While I am in VD, I also realize we are not included in the original 5, and I am OK with that. We are, to a lesser degree, the medium between IB/TMO and Taken/Div/BDA etc.

So while I sympathize with other guilds - I also ask - what sense of entitlement do you feel should be granted if you aren't willing to make SOME sort of effort? Being in the middle - I don't EXPECT us to be in the top 5, but since we do kill Naggy somewhat regularly - I would expect us to be in the rotation as it is.

On a personal note, I have a lot of friends in both TMO and IB. I think we can all agree to disagree at times, and other times there comes a point where you need to suck it up and agree to agree.

This is one of those times. Hundreds of hours being wasted over a click. The need arose to agree to agree. Perhaps the need will arise elsewhere.

[maverixdamighty]

ability to kill naggy? i don't buy that. Right now there are 3 guilds who kill nagafen right away when he spawns. I agree with that and it's part of why those guilds are getting epics right now. If another guild wants to be included they would be expected to contribute to ensuring nagafen is dead within hours of him spawning.

[Autotune]

ability to kill naggy? i don't buy that. Right now there are 3 guilds who kill nagafen right away when he spawns. I agree with that and it's part of why those guilds are getting epics right now. If another guild wants to be included they would be expected to contribute to ensuring nagafen is dead within hours of him spawning.

hours? try seconds-minutes. No cleric wants naggy up for "hours".

[maverixdamighty]

yes next time he's up i'll start my stop watch and see if you mobilize kill him within seconds/minutes. i've seen the precision of those raids and it leaves alot to be desired...

[Skope]

*ability* isn't *willingness*. I've got access to an alt raidforce myself with enough enough numbers to drop nag. If these dumbass variances were on classic you'd have a lot more than 3 guilds to talk with to get to an agreement. Nobody in divinity will poopsock, and I'm pretty sure Taken and BDA are in that boat as well. Like I said, when we played fair and competed (and I played fair) Rogean took a nice hot dump down our throats and left us with a rather bad taste in our mouths. If you really want to see competition again, whether for naggy and Ragefire or sev/trak/VS or anything worth dropping you've gotta see the problem behind this small issue and not just your clickstick.

[Autotune]

yes next time he's up i'll start my stop watch and see if you mobilize kill him within seconds/minutes. i've seen the precision of those raids and it leaves alot to be desired...

i've not seen yours... wonder why.

[Sizzle]

Being as this topic no longer is a serious thing, I think it is about time it gets moved to RnF, nothing to truely serious on p99.

[Skope]

i've not seen yours... wonder why.

read above. Autotune, it's something even you said is a big problem. I'm here telling you I agree with you and I won't partake in the nonsense :P

[maverixdamighty]

no desire to kill him until recently. you win you are in a more competitive guild on an emu server bro!

[Temptation]

Lol Divinity

[Autotune]

no desire to kill him until recently. you win you are in a more competitive guild on an emu server bro!

congrats, you bitch moan and complain about everything on an emu and wish that you were in a more competitive guild on an emu server. Congrats, you can't even win on here.

[maverixdamighty]

not complaining about anything was offering an alternative suggestion. i have no desire to be in ib/tmo/vd or i would have joined one of them.

[Autotune]

read above. Autotune, it's something even you said is a big problem. I'm here telling you I agree with you and I won't partake in the nonsense :P

I know, I understand the other problems, but people are solving the problems they can with the best solution they come up with. I can't knock that.

I was more returning his sentiment.

[Skope]

congrats, you bitch moan and complain about everything on an emu and wish that you were in a more competitive guild on an emu server. Congrats, you can't even win on here.

Don't be an idiot. You sit camped out and poopsock after a batphone and float your own boat. Somehow the person who doesn't find it fun sitting his char camped out for days until somthing pops is the weirdo and you start to fling shit. I can guarantee you if it were on classic variance it would be a completely different scenario, or even some of the other shit you yourself thought was a good idea on that other thread. Naggy isn't magically no variance and impossible to kill. I'd rather sit back and laugh at you for being a fucking loser than get a CoF if it means I get some sleep.

It's a game to me and I play here to enjoy it. Sometimes the GMs make some horrendous decisions and make that impossible, sometimes certain dumbass players decide to take advantage of anything they can to make it difficult. You've got to take yourself out of the equation, nobody wants to see p99 dig itself into an even deeper hole filled with neckbeards and the socially inept.

[Autotune]

Don't be an idiot. You sit camped out and poopsock after a batphone and float your own boat. Somehow the person who doesn't find it fun sitting his char camped out for days until somthing pops is the weirdo and you start to fling shit. I can guarantee you if it were on classic variance it would be a completely different scenario, or even some of the other shit you yourself thought was a good idea on that other thread. Naggy isn't magically no variance and impossible to kill. I'd rather sit back and laugh at you for being a fucking loser than get a CoF if it means I get some sleep.


I was more returning his sentiment.

But we can continue this RnF if divinity wants.

[Brad_mo123]

How does a guild enter the rotation? I know Taken and Divinity have a couple clerics between us who are ready for Ragefire but just don't participate in the bullshit that goes on for mobs around here sometimes.

Maybe actually trying to kill nagafen one week might give your guild the respect of a rotation slot instead of expecting another guild to pave the way for you.

[maverixdamighty]

like i suggested if a guild was to enter into any part of the agreement it would be assumed they would have to kill nagafen at some given time to spawn more zordaks.

Done with this thread it's turned into if you aren't in tmo/ib/vd you are no good at eq. Laughable.

[Skope]

If you're returning the sentiment and can see the issue then don't spout nonsense. You'd actually race to naggy if it meant I didn't have to sit there for 4 days to make sure it happens. It's unnecessary and dumping it benefits everyone and it still applies here. And if you don't race me then it means you're tracking for less time and can get some sleep yourself. Win win and you still bitch and moan

[inyane]

Not every guild has an inclination to have an alt lvl 52 raid force for old dragons. *shrug*
Doesn't meant they couldn't kill ragefire.

On the flip side, who really cares? Once ragefire spawn time gets fixed, it won't be too horrible a wait to get your epic. I mean, how many clerics are there even on the server? :)

[Acillatem]

By ability I meant ability to mobilize as well as ability to kill. Yes it takes a certain amount of dedication to do that - but it's not outrageous. I work 14 hours a day, 5 days a week but I still make a couple of raids per week. I'm on the "casual" side of a "semi-casual" guild lol. But I'm still able to get to certain raids etc.

[Sizzle]

RNF plox

[Autotune]

If you're returning the sentiment and can see the issue then don't spout nonsense. You'd actually race to naggy if it meant I didn't have to sit there for 4 days to make sure it happens. It's unnecessary and dumping it benefits everyone and it still applies here. And if you don't race me then it means you're tracking for less time and can get some sleep yourself. Win win and you still bitch and moan

Spout nonsense? go back and reread the posts your friend made. He posted a time frame, I corrected him. He started the RnF, I continued. You are now mad about the direction your friend turned the discussion, yet at me instead of him.

If you believe every RnF that is posted, I'm sorry. However, I don't even attend Naggy or Vox raids, I couldn't give less fucks about them. So no, I wouldn't 'race' you to him.

So yeah, there are problems with the server. 90% of us realize this, we fix what we can. What do you purpose IB/TMO do about spawn variances? Obviously this is a big issue for Divinity to get back into the raiding scene. I'm all ears about how TMO or IB can fix your raiding woes, but I am quite certain you can't name one thing anyone that actively raids/plays/shits on p99 can do to fix the variances.

Want people to stop dissing Divinity? Then perhaps they shouldn't take a discussion in the course of RnF.

Want variances changed? Perhaps you should start a petition, put up a poll and talk with guild leaders and, most importantly, Rogean.

Want Ragefire bullshit stopped? Stop being retarded and let this pre-rotation live out until more guilds get in it.

The only thing you are doing is being pissed at something else and dragging it into another thread.

[Skope]

By ability I meant ability to mobilize as well as ability to kill. Yes it takes a certain amount of dedication to do that - but it's not outrageous. I work 14 hours a day, 5 days a week but I still make a couple of raids per week. I'm on the "casual" side of a "semi-casual" guild lol. But I'm still able to get to certain raids etc.

The mobilizing and alts to kill a guild isn't the issue. That's a second step. The fact that you have to track for 4 days to see him when his window should be a quarter of that is. You fix one you'll get the other. If you want proof then go track for 4 days while working 14 hours a day and trying to lead a normal social life =P After a while you realize it's unnecessary and benefits everyone to dump it. Unfortunately it's being used as an advantage now just as the original poopsocking was before. Same exact "you can do it too" arguments you have here in this thread. Just because somebody can do it along with you doesn't mean it's the brightest idea nor the smartest choice. In fact, it's pretty fucking stupid and you're a dumbass for doing it.

I've called Rogean out for some retarded fucking decisions many times and I have the balls to do it. In fact, if you want to know what they are, starting from early '10 when I joined up I can fill you in. I could care less about my account, my forum acct, my chars or my gear, *I actually want the best for this server*. Calling out the GMs, cheaters, exploiters (Hi Jeremy), and poopsockers is what I do best. Yet here we are, agreeing that there's a big fucking problem and you turn it into a guild thing. I don't hate TMO/IB/VD, I just hate that they stoop to such low levels to play P99 in order to have fun.

Autotune, there's clearly bigger problems here so let's quit picking out guild tags. Blaming div/tmo/ib etc has been done for a while now and the server's pop has decreased tremendously since launch of kunark. How about instead we actually start fixing shit? I don't trust Rogean to make smart decisions on his own

[maverixdamighty]

Spout nonsense? go back and reread the posts your friend made. He posted a time frame, I corrected him. He started the RnF, I continued. You are now mad about the direction your friend turned the discussion, yet at me instead of him.

If you believe every RnF that is posted, I'm sorry. However, I don't even attend Naggy or Vox raids, I couldn't give less fucks about them. So no, I wouldn't 'race' you to him.

So yeah, there are problems with the server. 90% of us realize this, we fix what we can. What do you purpose IB/TMO do about spawn variances? Obviously this is a big issue for Divinity to get back into the raiding scene. I'm all ears about how TMO or IB can fix your raiding woes, but I am quite certain you can't name one thing anyone that actively raids/plays/shits on p99 can do to fix the variances.

Want people to stop dissing Divinity? Then perhaps they shouldn't take a discussion in the course of RnF.

Want variances changed? Perhaps you should start a petition, put up a poll and talk with guild leaders and, most importantly, Rogean.

Want Ragefire bullshit stopped? Stop being retarded and let this pre-rotation live out until more guilds get in it.

The only thing you are doing is being pissed at something else and dragging it into another thread.

You started a rant based on what I posted. I posted a suggested alternative to the proposed rotation and commented that it would be assumed naggy would die within hours of spawning. You then ranted that this would enflame clerics he has to die within nanoseconds of spawning as you guys currently do...

I could care less if you diss divinity. Feel free to continue. If you feel zerging mobs makes you superior in any way that's your perogative. You have brought nothing of any value to this thread.

[williestargell]

after the first 5 (i got no problem with waiting for 5 people that have already poopsocked)...ALL guilds interested should be in the rotation.

keep a running thread. any guild can add themselves on to the end in the order they post.

The end

[Autotune]

You started a rant based on what I posted. I posted a suggested alternative to the proposed rotation and commented that it would be assumed naggy would die within hours of spawning. You then ranted that this would enflame clerics he has to die within nanoseconds of spawning as you guys currently do...

I could care less if you diss divinity. Feel free to continue. If you feel zerging mobs makes you superior in any way that's your perogative. You have brought nothing of any value to this thread.

hours? try seconds-minutes. No cleric wants naggy up for "hours".

hardly a rant, you proposed naggy be left up for hours, meaning longer the next cleric has to wait for ragefire.

I posted a time that naggy would die, to benefit all clerics left needing an epic.

you followed with

yes next time he's up i'll start my stop watch and see if you mobilize kill him within seconds/minutes. i've seen the precision of those raids and it leaves alot to be desired...

Who did what again? Who brought what guild up first?

I spoke for all clerics, even yours. Also, you should work on that imagination, it's running wild.

[Sizzle]

damn 1%ers

[Jarayador]

Out of curiosity, how many clerics in Taken/Divinity/BDA have pearls? How many will have pearls once the first-5 have their epics?

[Alarti0001]

No it doesn't, because it doesn't apply to anyone else. Think about it. I can roll in there right now and poopsock, KS it and your whole agreement takes a shit. You need to wake up. This agreement is an agreement between 3 guilds, that's all. It doesn't apply to anyone else and in its current state, nor should it. Why this was posted here is beyond me

I dare you ;)

[maverixdamighty]

Within hours implies 0 minutes to a few hours. Same time frame he is currently killed

[Jarnauga]

Jeremy is fighting communism on norrath.

No truce with the shadow !

[relapsee69]

For a cleric that has lost 3 pearls and has had to redo the cleric epic quest 3 times due to 'spam clicking'. You are crazy if you do not support this start of a server wide rotation. Instead of divinity and others shiting up this thread. Suggestions on how to better the agreement for all clerics should be the main goal.

My suggestion is Ib and VD raid naggy together. So we should share that ragefire. While tmo does naggy on their own they have their own ragefire. Which would leave that 3rd spot now for divinity/bda/taken. Each raid force would have from naggy to naggy to kill however many ragefires spawned that week.

[Splorf22]

So I had a long thread about popping server mobs at once and disabling variance. But you know, the more I think about it, the more I think the raid scene at project 1999 is unfixable, and it all comes down to supply and demand.

The simple reality is that we have a huge overcrowding at the high end because we have a huge fraction of "hardcore" players compared to "casuals". We probably have over 500 players of level 50+ on the server who would be willing to kill raid targets if they were just sitting up in their zones for days at a time. Meanwhile high end EQ is designed for maybe 2-3 guilds of perhaps 50-75 members who can each field 40+ man raid forces on any given night, i.e. a total of 150-200 total players.

So we have maybe three times the number of raid level players the server is designed to support, i.e. massively increased demand, while the supply of raid mobs remains the same. When demand is higher than supply, price increases, and since EQ is not really that hard of a game price comes in time spent poopsocking rather than skill. Currently you have the 1/3 or so of players who want the phat loots the most in TMO/IB and the other 2/3 of the players who don't care so much in Taken/BDA/etc. (VD is about 50/50 hardcore and not-so-hardcore which makes us an interesting point imo). We can talk about rotations and linked spawns and variance (and I think the current system can be vastly improved) but the simple reality is we have too many players for not enough epics. Verant designed a system where players would "compete" in whatever way they could for limited resources rather than having instances.

I've finally come to the conclusion that the real solution is VELIOUS. From what I understand it'll triple the amount of raid content available . . which would almost perfectly fix our problem. So if you guys wanna fix the raid scene here, do whatever you can to get Velious out ASAP.

[maverixdamighty]

I like your general concept above. I think you could also add if naggy isn't dead within a certain time frame your rotation spot is skipped that week and it goes to the next member.

[relapsee69]

I like your general concept above. I think you could also add if naggy isn't dead within a certain time frame your rotation spot is skipped that week and it goes to the next member.

Exactly

[maverixdamighty]

That's the sort of alternative I was suggesting when the ranting started. Thanks.

[williestargell]

Out of curiosity, how many clerics in Taken/Divinity/BDA have pearls? How many will have pearls once the first-5 have their epics?

not sure of exact count. around 8 atm between taken and divinity. probably be over a dozen by the time those five are done

[Wotsirb401]

great, but bear in mind if I happen to be there myself on a char I won't mind KSing that because it doesn't apply to me or a whole slew of other people.


Good luck ksing IB...

Frankly, this epitomizes why this server's taking a tumble. Lying, secret meetings and handshakes for personal gain and then come outside the door with a smile and say you've helped everyone.

Welcome to politics

[Autotune]

Ragefire is triggered by Naggy's death. Thus, if the rest of the server isn't happy with TMO/IB's agreement, I give you this.


Q: What rules pertain to raid mobs that are triggered spawns?
A: If a raid mob is triggered to spawn by killing a single mob before it (Example: Statue -> Idol -> Avatar of War), the guild that spawned the mob has 20 minutes to engage it. The mob is open to any other guild on a first to engage basis once the first guild has either wiped or not engaged within the time limit.


Thus, the guild that kills Naggy, will have claim to Ragefire. As later in the patch, The following Ragefire's triggered by the before Ragefire, will also be considered that guild's. Unless they fail.

Hmm, wonder who all is in favor of that instead of the agreement.

[Lazortag]

What's up guys? Just because someone with a Divinity tag says something you disagree with is no reason to diss Divinity. No single member of the guild represents everyone in the guild, that would be ridiculous. Criticizing people for their guild affiliations is what people do when they can't come up with good arguments.

Elethia seems like a perfectly reasonable person and I doubt he/she was trying to offend anyone. I also disagree that he/she was ignoring guilds other than VD/IB/TMO because at the end of the original post it says:

...
Due to the nature of the Cleric epic and Ragefire spawn, it is required that Nagafen be killed in order for Ragefire to spawn. The three guilds currently in this rotation are looking at ways to incorporate other guilds/clerics into this agreement once the rotation becomes implemented. ... Thoughts and input are welcomed on this point.

The problem was that when someone asked how Taken/Div/BDA would enter into the rotation, the answers ranged from "you need to demonstrate that you're willing to poopsock", to "you have to kill Naggy", with the occasional jab at small guilds for supposedly being unskilled. Both of those requirements are completely stupid. If you need to demonstrate willingness to poopsock, then people will just poopsock, which is bad. So why not skip the poopsocking part and let people enter into the rotation randomly after the first five clerics from that list are done? No one is asking for welfare, we're asking to avoid an unnecessary time sink that doesn't require any skill or effort.

Basically I think if you've already devoted an insane amount of time to the camp, you should be prioritized. But an agreement should be set up to avoid people having to spend so much time on it in the future.

As for having to kill Naggy, let's be reasonable here - I'm pretty sure every raid guild on this server has killed Naggy. If demonstrating the "ability" to kill a mob is what mattered, we'd have been on a VS rotation a long time ago ;)

[maverixdamighty]

That rule is also talking about a direct spawn not a triggered timer. Stretch at best.

[Autotune]

That rule is also talking about a direct spawn not a triggered timer. Stretch at best.

I give you Keeper of Souls in Plane of Sky.

[Skope]

KoS is a triggered timer (kill a griff, start timer). He actually should have a small window where he spawns and not an exact 70mins (or whatever). It was also put there because of PoSky. I was there the day DA made troll accounts to bitch at Div because Rogean said we both had done enough to claim KoS (think you had to clear more than 2 griff or pegasuseseses). Anyway, it doesn't do anything to ease the poopsock or the mess that naggy will become if it means that nag's kill is attached to ragefire, it only alleviates the issue by placing it elsewhere (FTE naggy).

Wiggl : i suspect we could get enough support to just overwhelm the camp. the rotation thing is pretty much why im not going to bother for 6 months

Fix this.

[Maultriss]

If NO other guild existed on this server and it was only you and your buddies playing. You would have to kill Naggy to get to Ragefire. It isn't an absurd standard to go by and not quite fair to expect others to kill Naggy for you so you get can Ragefire.

Relapsee's proposition isn't a bad one, however, it will lead to insanity during Naggy kills and BDA/Taken/Divinity won't have a prayer and will totally be left out.

[Autotune]

KoS is a triggered timer. He actually should have a small window where he spawns and not an exact 70mins (or whatever). It was also put there because of PoSky. I was there the day DA made troll accounts to bitch at Div because Rogean said we both had done enough to claim KoS (think you had to clear more than 2 griff or pegasuseseses). Anyway, it doesn't do anything to ease the poopsock or the mess that naggy will become if it means that nag's kill is attached to ragefire, it only alleviates the issue by placing it elsewhere (FTE naggy).



Fix this.

ib/tmo/vd already fight for FTE on naggy (tho not as harsh and seeing how we already worked an agreement with ourselves...) The only thing it does is block out the rest of the server who do not already "compete" for naggy due to reasons previously stated.

I am showing you what could be in place for the rest of the server, instead of this agreement. Something that is supported by the rules in place.

[EverquestJunkie]

Agreed if you want to sock more power to you, but making an agreement between 3 guilds and expecting everyone else to just go along with it with no incentive is a bit far fetched.

[maverixdamighty]

Much better comparison but that I don't know a rule is in place for that. Don't believe that rule applies. Going back to relapses' idea that favorably impacts everyone involved imo. Tmo and ib/vd get yours first and it gives other guilds an opportunity to get it without the sockfests. Add in u can hit other targets instead of worrying about naggy.

[Skope]

The current rules aren't the biggie, it's the massive window and sockfests that its created that leave others out and you get threads like these, where each side throws poop at each other and yet both agree that the problem needs fixing. Fix the dumbass windows and you'll fix the ragefire situation, and certainly the complaining from those of us left out.

[Xeliso]

OCCUPY ZORDAK RAGEFIRE

[quido]

Whatever the situation, people will find a way to exert incredible overall effort to levy the odds in their favor. A lot of people in your situation, skope, before the variance and both with and without the (forced) rotation endorsed the variance as a quality solution. I don't think most people envisioned the lengths to which players on p99 were willing to go. No ruleset is going to cure the "problem" of crazy no-life ninjas (such as myself, apparently) being hardcore as fuck.

[Skope]

Whatever the situation, people will find a way to exert incredible overall effort to levy the odds in their favor. A lot of people in your situation, skope, before the variance and both with and without the (forced) rotation endorsed the variance as a quality solution. I don't think most people envisioned the lengths to which players on p99 were willing to go. No ruleset is going to cure the "problem" of crazy no-life ninjas (such as myself, apparently) being hardcore as fuck.

You know, the same was said for the guilds that were poopsocking would still be the best guilds when FTE hit; but what happened? Soon as that window opened we took it in our hands and went with it with 2 server sweeps in 2 consecutive weeks. The same attitude was had by people when actual poopsock was the server norm and obviously things changed for the better (though Rogean took a nice dump down our throats during that time). A defeatist attitude isn't how you fix the problem and stagnation by default as a suggestion isn't a suggestion. Fix the big problem and you'll fix your little one, otherwise you'll be here playing with yourselves and still against yourselves.

[Jomar]

My suggestion is Ib and VD raid naggy together. So we should share that ragefire. While tmo does naggy on their own they have their own ragefire. Which would leave that 3rd spot now for divinity/bda/taken. Each raid force would have from naggy to naggy to kill however many ragefires spawned that week.

I'm not sure I agree with this. TMO doesn't even really attempt Nagafen anymore (they have two kills over the last three months), so they're basically in the same boat as BDA/Divinity/Taken when it comes to spawning their "own" Ragefire. Yet they get their own Nagafen/Ragefire cycle, while VD is bundled in with IB despite having killed Nagafen solo several times over the last three months.

My suggestion would be as follows:
a) five Clerics in the original post get their Ragefires.
b) a Cleric of VD gets the following one.
c) a Cleric of TMO gets the one after that.
d) a Cleric of VD gets the last one before a rotation begins.
e) assuming the Ragefire patch is in place, we determine the next three Ragefire weeks via a roll-off between BDA/Divinity/Taken. After their roll-off determines the order, each guild must then kill Lord Nagafen within six hours of spawning by themselves in-order to officially lay "claim" to their week of Ragefires. After the first three weeks are up, the next three weeks would go in order of VD, TMO, and finally IB.

If a guild is unable to successfully kill Nagafen in their six-hour window, their place in line is lost for good. The next guild in line would then have two hours to kill Nagafen, and if they were to fail, they would still retain their spot in line, but would lose out on the possibility of moving up a week in the rotation. And then of course since the second guild failed, the next guild in line would have two hours to kill Nagafen and take over the original guild's Ragefire week. Once a guild begins their week, they are removed from the line until the next rotation is decided in another agreement (or Ragefire becomes open season).

That's about all I have. It's pretty straight-forward and, in my opinion, pretty fair to all parties involved. BDA/Div/Taken does not have to respect the agreement in the original post made by Elethia, but this would give them incentive to do so as, after their Ragefire weeks, they could all have just as many Cleric epics as IB/TMO/VD. Venom/Acryid could be included in the next agreement (if one is made), but for now they are left out as they have not really shown that they are capable of successfully killing a raid target such as Nagafen/Ragefire on their own. The last three weeks go in order of VD-TMO-IB because at the start of the rotation, VD would have two epics, TMO would have three, while IB would have four.

[Metallikus]

I'm not sure I agree with this. TMO doesn't even really attempt Nagafen anymore (they have two kills over the last three months), so they're basically in the same boat as BDA/Divinity/Taken when it comes to spawning their "own" Ragefire. Yet they get their own Nagafen/Ragefire cycle, while VD is bundled in with IB despite having killed Nagafen solo several times over the last three months.

My suggestion would be as follows:
a) five Clerics in the original post get their Ragefires.
b) a Cleric of VD gets the following one.
c) a Cleric of TMO gets the one after that.
d) a Cleric of VD gets the last one before a rotation begins.
e) assuming the Ragefire patch is in place, we determine the next three Ragefire weeks via a roll-off between BDA/Divinity/Taken. After their roll-off determines the order, each guild must then kill Lord Nagafen within six hours of spawning by themselves in-order to officially lay "claim" to their week of Ragefires. After the first three weeks are up, the next three weeks would go in order of VD, TMO, and finally IB.

If a guild is unable to successfully kill Nagafen in their six-hour window, their place in line is lost for good. The next guild in line would then have two hours to kill Nagafen, and if they were to fail, they would still retain their spot in line, but would lose out on the possibility of moving up a week in the rotation. And then of course since the second guild failed, the next guild in line would have two hours to kill Nagafen and take over the original guild's Ragefire week. Once a guild begins their week, they are removed from the line until the next rotation is decided in another agreement (or Ragefire becomes open season).

That's about all I have. It's pretty straight-forward and, in my opinion, pretty fair to all parties involved. BDA/Div/Taken does not have to respect the agreement in the original post made by Elethia, but this would give them incentive to do so as, after their Ragefire weeks, they could all have just as many Cleric epics as IB/TMO/VD. Venom/Acryid could be included in the next agreement (if one is made), but for now they are left out as they have not really shown that they are capable of successfully killing a raid target such as Nagafen/Ragefire on their own. The last three weeks go in order of VD-TMO-IB because at the start of the rotation, VD would have two epics, TMO would have three, while IB would have four..

Nothing out of line in that post

[Zereh]

~Doesn't~ kill and ~can't~ kill are worlds apart.

[Autotune]

(they have two kills over the last three months)

Epics haven't been out but for so long.


If Killing nagafen lays claim to the triggered ragefire mob and we go by the rule-set, TMO will definitely put Nagafen back on a top priority list.

There were reasons why we didn't push for him, there are reasons we would. I imagine IB feels the same way.

[maverixdamighty]

I don't think killing naggy prior to epics means anything since it was just for loot. Waiting 8 cycles before a chance to potentially get into the rotation is a bit long. As long as each guild gets one fairly soon I think it would be a win for all involved.

[Skope]

I'm not sure I agree with this. TMO doesn't even really attempt Nagafen anymore (they have two kills over the last three months), so they're basically in the same boat as BDA/Divinity/Taken when it comes to spawning their "own" Ragefire. Yet they get their own Nagafen/Ragefire cycle, while VD is bundled in with IB despite having killed Nagafen solo several times over the last three months.

My suggestion would be as follows:
a) five Clerics in the original post get their Ragefires.
b) a Cleric of VD gets the following one.
c) a Cleric of TMO gets the one after that.
d) a Cleric of VD gets the last one before a rotation begins.
e) assuming the Ragefire patch is in place, we determine the next three Ragefire weeks via a roll-off between BDA/Divinity/Taken. After their roll-off determines the order, each guild must then kill Lord Nagafen within six hours of spawning by themselves in-order to officially lay "claim" to their week of Ragefires. After the first three weeks are up, the next three weeks would go in order of VD, TMO, and finally IB.

If a guild is unable to successfully kill Nagafen in their six-hour window, their place in line is lost for good. The next guild in line would then have two hours to kill Nagafen, and if they were to fail, they would still retain their spot in line, but would lose out on the possibility of moving up a week in the rotation. And then of course since the second guild failed, the next guild in line would have two hours to kill Nagafen and take over the original guild's Ragefire week. Once a guild begins their week, they are removed from the line until the next rotation is decided in another agreement (or Ragefire becomes open season).

That's about all I have. It's pretty straight-forward and, in my opinion, pretty fair to all parties involved. BDA/Div/Taken does not have to respect the agreement in the original post made by Elethia, but this would give them incentive to do so as, after their Ragefire weeks, they could all have just as many Cleric epics as IB/TMO/VD. Venom/Acryid could be included in the next agreement (if one is made), but for now they are left out as they have not really shown that they are capable of successfully killing a raid target such as Nagafen/Ragefire on their own. The last three weeks go in order of VD-TMO-IB because at the start of the rotation, VD would have two epics, TMO would have three, while IB would have four.

The issue with this suggestion is that if variance were back at normal live levels (or any of the other suggestions in that other thread) the above wouldn't apply. You would likely get more TMO/Taken/BDA/Div competition for naggy and the rest and those left out of Ele's post would account for a far larger proportion of nag kills. This only addresses the issue of Ragefire and not the windows themselves and thus doesn't address the problem but rather a really small one within a specific situation. Outside of TMO/IB, I'm sure VD feels the same way I just described. It's not about Ragefire, it's about the windows to get to Ragefire that are the issue. Appealing to those not willing to poopsock but not dealing with the poopsock does nothing about poopsock.

[Jomar]

~Doesn't~ kill and ~can't~ kill are worlds apart.

Taken doesn't kill Nagafen because they won't poopsock him, but I'm pretty sure they're more than capable of doing it if they were given an unrushed chance at it.

Meanwhile, back in November, your guild wiped to Nagafen three times in a row while repeatedly training us to slow us down, until finally during your fourth CR, we (VD solo) got our one shot at him and killed him no problem.

So maybe doesn't and can't aren't worlds apart after all.

[baub]

with one hand stealin ignores rules posted and creates his own interpretations

with the other hand he quotes them and asks others to respect them as law

let this terrible player also be known as a terrible person

[Autotune]

Taken doesn't kill Nagafen because they won't poopsock him, but I'm pretty sure they're more than capable of doing it if they were given an unrushed chance at it.

Meanwhile, back in November, your guild wiped to Nagafen three times in a row while repeatedly training us to slow us down, until finally we (VD solo) got our one shot at him and killed him no problem.

So maybe doesn't and can't aren't worlds apart after all.

is it the one where he stopped AEing? Because I remember it differently, being the only naggy kill i was forced to go to.

[Autotune]

with one hand stealin ignores rules posted and creates his own interpretations

with the other hand he quotes them and asks others to respect them as law

let this terrible player also be known as a terrible person

because you're a complete idiot, i'll ignore your retarded excuse for reading comprehension.

[baub]

cool f5 key bro

[Brad_mo123]

I don't think killing naggy prior to epics means anything since it was just for loot. Waiting 8 cycles before a chance to potentially get into the rotation is a bit long. As long as each guild gets one fairly soon I think it would be a win for all involved.

Being able to kill naggy means everything for the cleric epic. Ragefire is possibly a tad bit easier but the thing is, Ragefire window does not open untill naggy is killed so if you get into the rotation without ever trying contribute to it.... thats kind of fucked.

[Autotune]

cool f5 key bro

are you stating what you're doing now? congrats.

[zahlia]

As much as most of us would like to see ninik get an epic, I think it is pretty fair that those folks who have already invested far, far too many hours into this camp not get shafted. I think Ninik would agree!

Fer wut it worth, I does 'gree. Dis is reason I not beened at Ragefire fer pas' few days, even though manymany nice folks in lotsa diff'rent guilds off'red to helps me. I know from friens in IB an' TMO wut some of dese clerics has put 'emselves though sittin' dere, an' I wouldn't wish dat on nobody. (Well, mebbe meanieheads who is squishes gnomes...mebbe.)

I am guessing she's #1 on the list once the patch comes out and the first wave of clerics from ib/tmo/vd get their sprinklers and the rotation gets opened up some. I hope so anyway.

Dis is seemin' less an' less likely. I really dunno how to 'spress to ev'ryone who posted on mine's behalf inna other thread how much dat means to me, however unlikely it is dat anythin' will ever comes of it. Mine's gnomish heart almos' bursted wit' happiness! Tanks you so veryvery much.

[ShinraTensei]

...We tracked, mobilized and competed and when guilds cheated is when Rogean took a nice hot dump down our throat for doing it fairly. Same still applies here....

... Like I said, when we played fair and competed (and I played fair) Rogean took a nice hot dump down our throats and left us with a rather bad taste in our mouths....

... (though Rogean took a nice dump down our throats during that time)....

Seriously, take your agenda to your own thread... you're shitting on people in here for the wrong reasons, meanwhile repeatedly embarrassing yourself by saying you eat Rogean's piping hot fresh shit (at least stated repeatedly 3 times already). We get it, you don't like the spawn variance. That discussion does not belong in this thread. You're about the only person I know that would take that kind of metaphor and continue to come back for more.

[Dravingar]

I don't think killing naggy prior to epics means anything since it was just for loot. Waiting 8 cycles before a chance to potentially get into the rotation is a bit long. As long as each guild gets one fairly soon I think it would be a win for all involved.

I just find it silly that epics have been out for a whopping 3 weeks and casual guilds are claiming that it's not fair they are being excluded for another 2 months yet aren't bitching about how TR/IB/VD all have a rotation on Trakanon and that's content thats been out for a year almost now and they haven't seen.

[Trimm]

whats going on in this thread?

http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o325/Lynxni/avatar.jpg

[axius]

i have a solution to everyones epic problems: roll a rogue

or a blunt, shrug

[Lazortag]

I just find it silly that epics have been out for a whopping 3 weeks and casual guilds are claiming that it's not fair they are being excluded for another 2 months yet aren't bitching about how TR/IB/VD all have a rotation on Trakanon and that's content thats been out for a year almost now and they haven't seen.

Because casual guilds can easily kill ragefire, but killing Trak at the moment might be a bit more difficult?

[Skope]

I just find it silly that epics have been out for a whopping 3 weeks and casual guilds are claiming that it's not fair they are being excluded for another 2 months yet aren't bitching about how TR/IB/VD all have a rotation on Trakanon and that's content thats been out for a year almost now and they haven't seen.

I'm not tracking for longer than I should be tracking just because you've got no job or social life.

As for why I have a beef with Rogean (fuck it, might as well come out here):

When Div was doing really well last year I spent a very large portion of my time tracking (an obscene amount of time) to assure that we got those kills. We killed something like 75% of the targets through an entire month and sweeped 2 weeks (right after the first poopsock ended. We ignored sky for the moment and kicked ass on the ground). We were noticing people and guilds were getting to spawns right before the target would spawn (literally minutes) and this happened more than once. We camped mains and alts usually at the next likely target (later in the window) yet these guild(s) would get to an odd target (early window) buff up and a few minutes later it spawned. We weren't just being paranoid, as later Rogean informed us that there were something like 8 people cheating by getting the info from the P99 database and thus knew the spawns. Unfortunately, Rogean also said that these people were in all the raiding guilds and therefore punished nobody (had Div been taking advantage maybe they would have told me or the rest of the guild so we wouldn't have had to spend so much fucking time tracking if we already knew what and when it would spawn. We wouldn't have been missing the targets either). Needless to say, it was a huge dump down our guilds throat and mine and everyone else who helped track. Then last year he lets off 365 accounts and a very small number of that was in our guild and an exponentially larger amount in other raiding guilds (we were given the numbers and we're talking 5-6x as many). We wanted them gone, all of them and they were given the welcome mat after a slap on the wrist. Unfortunately these 2 fuck-ups aren't the only 2 fuckups. We actually pride ourselves on doing this in a clean matter that actually benefits the server as a whole. Div wants P99 to succeed and for it to flourish. Hell, I want it. I'm just hoping he'll wake up and realize he's pandered to the idiots far too often. He's shown he doesn't mind letting cheaters off nor does he punish guilds who cheat in an even manner (Perun SEQing on raids and IB walked and DA got punished for it twice, once for just some random member MQing in Lguk and the whole guild sat in raiding timeout). His decisions aren't always the brightest. There's more, too

[williestargell]

i wasnt objecting to waiting 5 cycles, i would object to waiting 8, just because you think you are superior.

after those 5...the guilds that those 5 belong to should go to the BOTTOM of the rotation automatically, they've already got alot of epics and are probably working on alts already.

should be a roll between those major guilds that arent represented by the 5 poopsockers to determine start of rotation, but i'd settle for a roll with IB/TMO/VD/Taken/Divinity/BDA to determine the order, and all other interested guilds right after that in the order they post.

my opinion

[Dravingar]

I'm not tracking for longer than I should be tracking just because you've got no job or social life.

As for why I have a beef with Rogean (fuck it, might as well come out here):

When Div was doing really well last year I spent a very large portion of my time tracking (an obscene amount of time) to assure that we got those kills. We killed something like 75% of the targets through an entire month and sweeped 2 weeks (right after the first poopsock ended. We ignored sky for the moment and kicked ass on the ground). We were noticing people and guilds were getting to spawns right before the target would spawn (literally minutes) and this happened more than once. We camped mains and alts usually at the next likely target (later in the window) yet these guild(s) would get to an odd target (early window) buff up and a few minutes later it spawned. We weren't just being paranoid, as later Rogean informed us that there were something like 8 people cheating by getting the info from the P99 database and thus knew the spawns. Unfortunately, Rogean also said that these people were in all the raiding guilds and therefore punished nobody (had Div been taking advantage maybe they would have told me or the rest of the guild so we wouldn't have had to spend so much fucking time tracking if we already knew what and when it would spawn. We wouldn't have been missing the targets either). Needless to say, it was a huge dump down our guilds throat and mine and everyone else who helped track. Then last year he lets off 365 accounts and a very small number of that was in our guild and an exponentially larger amount in other raiding guilds (we were given the numbers and we're talking 5-6x as many). We wanted them gone, all of them and they were given the welcome mat after a slap on the wrist. Unfortunately these 2 fuck-ups aren't the only 2 fuckups. We actually pride ourselves on doing this in a clean matter that actually benefits the server as a whole. Div wants P99 to succeed and for it to flourish. Hell, I want it. I'm just hoping he'll wake up and realize he's pandered to the idiots far too often

Great backstory to the server which has absolutely no relevance to ragefire.

Also, this is fucking everquest Time Invested = Rewards. Hurp de derp.

[Skope]

He asked me what my prob with Rogean was, so there you go! :P

[Lazortag]

Also, this is fucking everquest Time Invested = Rewards. Hurp de derp.

Why not agree to minimize the amount of time people have to invest?

[Dravingar]

Why not agree to minimize the amount of time people have to invest?

The ones who were willing to invest the most amount of time did and came to this agreement. Not my fault your clerics weren't willing to kill themselves for 13 year old pixels, TMO's/IB's are. Deal with it.

[Lazortag]

The ones who were willing to invest the most amount of time did and came to this agreement. Not my fault your clerics weren't willing to kill themselves for 13 year old pixels, TMO's/IB's are. Deal with it.

Am I being trolled?

[Skope]

The ones who were willing to invest the most amount of time did and came to this agreement. Not my fault your clerics weren't willing to kill themselves for 13 year old pixels, TMO's/IB's are. Deal with it.

How long before they too quit and have to be replaced by more clerics who need to spend more obscene amounts of time at ragefire? Your turnover rate has been atrocious for 2 years. It's a never-ending cycle that only a handful of people stick with and the others are replaced, and you opt to keep going as one of that small minority rather than pandering to the majority? You're gonna be at ragefire forever unless things change, dude. You're always recruiting, and it's not because you're awesome to hang out with and the server rules are lovely.

[Neach]

Lottery!! Start a lottery with every cleric able and willing to finish. When it pops amelinda randomly picks a number and then that person gets it. Or just keep up with the waste of everyones time. . .maybe if the lottery was even done early so people knew who was getting it next others could offer plat or shit for that guys golden ticket. . Maybe just MAYBE everyone poopsocking would actually be able to spend time with their FAMILIES.

W/E works right? Lol unless this is a ploy by staff to get everyone to get along.

[Acillatem]

Tiered Seeded Partial Draft Rotation is the best way to go. I spent a solid month doing research on it over a year ago. It appeases all angles (ie there's still a thrill of the chase, not every mob goes on rotation, mobs don't get locked down, it keeps the top at the top but doesn't exclude those at the bottom, it cuts down on poopsocking, cuts down on drama, cuts down on all the negative).

1) Guilds are in Tiers based on Playstyle and/or Ability
2) Guilds are "seeded" much like the NFL draft.....the draft order changes every week to ensure a true rotation.
3) Partial meaning not every mob goes on Rotation therefore plenty of FFA targets left.
4) Draft - Do so in Rounds, with Round 1 being Tier 1 Guilds only....Round 2 being Tier 1 and 2 Guilds Only, etc.
5) Rotation - mobs/zones can't be chosen in the same round until it has been selected in all rounds. So if Trak is chosen in Round 1, it can't be chosen in round 1 until it has been chosen in Rounds 2 and 3 (this opens up content to other guilds, but since Top Guilds get more selections per week, it doesn't mean they couldn't feasibly get Trak 2 or 3 weeks in a row depending on other Guilds' selections).

Complicated to get started - but covers anything and everything (not just Rage).

[Daldolma]

Great backstory to the server which has absolutely no relevance to ragefire.

Also, this is fucking everquest Time Invested = Rewards. Hurp de derp.

I realize that a lot of the people that like to talk about "time invested" as a euphemism for poop-socking didn't actually play end-game on Live, so let me explain why people have a problem with the current variances on this server: they're not classic. This "time invested" didn't exist on Live -- it's a product of P99 trying to find a solution to the cluster-fuck of end-game that existed on Live and should exist here. Certain variances existed, yes -- but the massive variances of P99 are unique.

Many of the non-TMO, non-IB types have done the end-game in the past. Many of us would be glad to do it again. But many of us are here for the classic experience, not the customized end-game that has been created for this server.

People don't whine because they want things they don't deserve. They whine because things here aren't the way they "should" be, as per the stated goals of P99. It's a deliberate change to classic EQ. I'm not saying it's not right: it serves purposes, of course, which is why it is the way it is. But that's why people complain.

[Dravingar]

How long before they too quit and have to be replaced by more clerics who need to spend more obscene amounts of time at ragefire? Your turnover rate has been atrocious for 2 years. It's a never-ending cycle that only a handful of people stick with and the others are replaced, and you opt to keep going as one of that small minority rather than pandering to the majority? You're gonna be at ragefire forever unless things change, dude. You're always recruiting, and it's not because you're awesome to hang out with and the server rules are lovely.

I'm only really arguing about the first 5 ragefires that everyone seems to be pissy about. The 5 clerics listed in the OP post deserve their epic far more than some gnome who's posts I skip cause they make me think I'm reading a child's writing.

I'm sure after those 5 are done, people will have come to something beneficial to everyone as stated by elethia.


Due to the nature of the Cleric epic and Ragefire spawn, it is required that Nagafen be killed in order for Ragefire to spawn. The three guilds currently in this rotation are looking at ways to incorporate other guilds/clerics into this agreement once the rotation becomes implemented. At the current rate of Ragefire spawns, without the patch, this is at least 7-8 weeks out. Thoughts and input are welcomed on this point.
-Elethia

[Dravingar]

I realize that a lot of the people that like to talk about "time invested" as a euphemism for poop-socking didn't actually play end-game on Live, so let me explain why people have a problem with the current variances on this server: they're not classic. This "time invested" didn't exist on Live -- it's a product of P99 trying to find a solution to the cluster-fuck of end-game that existed on Live and should exist here. Certain variances existed, yes -- but the massive variances of P99 are unique.

Many of the non-TMO, non-IB types have done the end-game in the past. Many of us would be glad to do it again. But many of us are here for the classic experience, not the customized end-game that has been created for this server.

People don't whine because they want things they don't deserve. They whine because things here aren't the way they "should" be, as per the stated goals of P99. It's a deliberate change to classic EQ. I'm not saying it's not right: it serves purposes, of course, which is why it is the way it is. But that's why people complain.

Firstly, Variance is garbage but their is no other alternative. All it would be is TMO/IB slinging shit at each other over every spawn like this and if I remember right on my live server there was like a 6 month waiting list to get your epic.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3HAEq1F0kX8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Skope]

Drav, it's followed by posts of "unable to kill trak" or "partake in the poopsock." Ragefire isn't the issue here, it's just where you guys care about the most atm so it's getting the most attention. The same applies to vox, VS, inny, CT, etc. Unless you dump those worthless massive variances you're not fixing the problem. Three guilds came to an agreement about only ragefire and spoke with nobody else then decided to throw it up on the forums. Well done, now how about the rest? Also, the variances don't work. If you want proof take a look at just how many attempts other guilds have gotten in on naggy recently, or VS or just ask them: they won't do it because they don't feel they have to. If you truly wanted competition and to race to targets against other guilds than embrace something like a once-a-week pop with a variance that accounts for timezones but all pops at the same time. The guilds will still tier depending on what they can take and handle rather than how many of them don't have jobs. Currently you're competing against 2 other guilds because the majority of the population has decided you're retarded and you're pounding your chest about how great you are. You are. If these are the rules and will remain the rules then you can keep pounding your chest, nobody here is impressed.

[Rais]

*If anything comes from VD in any aspect of a deal outside of what our clerics want it'll come from Coldblooded. So any VD tags in this thread or members is just throwing stuff out there*

[Gwence]

I'd like to hear more of Skope's insights into variance and how it pertains to this server. Because mentioning it in every fucking post you make just isn't enough.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Ragefire is triggered by Naggy's death. Thus, if the rest of the server isn't happy with TMO/IB's agreement, I give you this.

Thus, the guild that kills Naggy, will have claim to Ragefire. As later in the patch, The following Ragefire's triggered by the before Ragefire, will also be considered that guild's. Unless they fail.

Hmm, wonder who all is in favor of that instead of the agreement.

See, I told you rules-lawyering was second nature to you. :) Take it a step further, young padawan... all raid mobs are triggered by the death of the previous instance of that raid mob, therefore...

[Autotune]

See, I told you rules-lawyering was second nature to you. :) Take it a step further, young padawan... all raid mobs are triggered by the death of the previous instance of that raid mob, therefore...

Like the retard Baub before you, the reading comprehension is reaching dangerously low levels.

[Dravingar]

Drav, it's followed by posts of "unable to kill trak" or "partake in the poopsock." Ragefire isn't the issue here, it's just where you guys care about the most atm so it's getting the most attention. The same applies to vox, VS, inny, CT, etc. Unless you dump those worthless massive variances you're not fixing the problem. Three guilds came to an agreement about only ragefire and spoke with nobody else then decided to throw it up on the forums. Well done, now how about the rest? Also, the variances don't work. If you want proof take a look at just how many attempts other guilds have gotten in on naggy recently, or VS or just ask them: they won't do it because they don't feel they have to. If you truly wanted competition and to race to targets against other guilds than embrace something like a once-a-week pop with a variance that accounts for timezones but all pops at the same time. The guilds will still tier depending on what they can take and handle rather than how many of them don't have jobs. Currently you're competing against 2 other guilds because the majority of the population has decided you're retarded and you're pounding your chest about how great you are. You are. If these are the rules and will remain the rules then you can keep pounding your chest, nobody here is impressed.

And this is exactly like live. If the top end guild(s) wanted something they would shit all over the lower guilds to get what they wanted(Leapfrogging, training, KS'ing). All I'm saying is grow a sack and deal with it instead of spouting your communist "let's all be equal maannnnnnnnn" bullshit because it benefits you more. If you want something more than IB/TMO/VD, fucking prove it instead of board warrioring.

Also, I'm not pounding my chest saying I'm amazing, I'm just saying quit living in a delusional world.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

With all due respect to Barfight and President...

Skope, it's time to shut the fuck up.

I know you're angry and frustrated about the state of the server, but your posts aren't doing anything to progress your goals, and most certainly aren't progressing the goals and reputation of Divinity.

As to the matter at hand, I am disappointed that the effort the 5 currently socking clerics have made at starting an agreement has been largely tossed aside and buried under an avalanche of RnF material (certainly some Div members bear responsibility in this turn of events, for this, I apologize.)

I would be willing to moderate a discussion among the leadership of any guild that has a cleric ready for Ragefire and attempt to broker an arrangement with wider appeal. If there is not support for such a meeting, I will do what I must within the capability and availability of my guild members and the rules of the server to obtain a shot at Ragefire for Divinity.

[baub]

Stealin so cute when he's lashing out

f5f5f5f5f5f5

[Thatguy05]

i have a solution to everyones epic problems: roll a rogue

or a blunt, shrug

best thing ive read in this thread.

[Motec]

So people who don't play and apply themselves want the same pixels as those of us who do?

Zzzzz

[Heebee]

http://i.imgur.com/Is7ic.png

[Senaiel]

I respect Divinity/Taken/BDA as much as anyone on this server and I am certainly a huge fan of Ninik. That being said, if you can't see why these 5 clerics are being awarded first, you are blind. IB/TMO/VD has had clerics endlessly clicking away in shifts over anywhere from 1 hour to 24+ hours at a time. No one else has put in that type of effort and as far as I am concerned effort reaps reward.

As far as Skope goes, I am not trying to be a total asshole here but last time IB/TMO had to go to VP and let everyone else have EVERY other mob on the server. VD got Trak/VS/Gore/Talendor/CT/Naggyx2/Vox/Sev/Dracho. While BDA/Taken/Divinity got a Dracho/Inny/Fay combined. You can remove variance all you want but even when there wasn't a variance look at the results. You ask for a level playing field but when you got one on a FULL REPOP and an actual Dracho/Naggy spawn before the repop look at the results. If you do not think that the IB/TMO/VDs results are indicative of what would happen with ragefire that is laughable. The guilds that are prepared and built to raid will still win in the long run because even with static spawns eventually mobs will become somewhat staggered due to some guilds taking longer htan others to kill certain mobs.

Lastly, I am more than willing to help any cleric in any guild when the rotation provides their turn.

[Treats]

The only way I see a rotation actually working and not alienating half of the server is having a lottery for everyone that is up to that point in the Cleric Epic Quest (Orb of Clear Water and Shimmering Pearl).

I think we all know the rules lawyering and sitting at spawns is not going to stop even with the OP's current aggrement/rotation.

1. Rogean pulls from the database every cleric that currently has the Shimmering Pearl and Orb of Clear Water.

2. A random number is assigned to each cleric with highest to lowest creating the order.

3. Nagafen is still FTE but Ragefire will go in order. There could be a certain time limit to kill him but it needs to be semi lenient for the casual clerics on the list in order to put a force together.

4. If Zordak is not killed/attempted in the alloted time it defaults to the next player on the list. This would account for people not playing anymore etc.

5. Any cleric after the original list is created will be required to post in the list thread a screenshot of their Shimmering Pearl and Orb of Clear Water in order to be added to the bottom.

Honestly this is the only fair way I see of doing it.

Who's to say TMO/IB/VD will actually be willing to give up their next cleric epic to a guild not listed? I think most of us have been on the server long enough to know this isn't how it works.

[Zapatos]

I don't know if anyone's said it, but all the bad mouthing the GMs/guides/devs in this thread needs to stop.

[quido]

Are you a cleric that doesn't have a Nagafen-capable guild behind you? Are you resigned to the fact that you won't get your epic for a long while? WELL THINK AGAIN!

For a limited time only I am providing you the opportunity to purchase SolB Support for when your turn in the rotation comes up. No longer must you have a real raid force behind you to get what you want! For a nominal one-time fee of only 500k platinum I will amass a force in SolB that is capable of killing Zordakalicus Ragefire and is willing to do so when your rotation slot arrives.

Due to recent developments and futile agreements, you possibly have the possibility to undeservedly claim your early Ragefire spawn now. Don't be the last chump to get your cleric epic! Pre-order your SolB Support now and receive a 1% discount.

[Daldolma]

Are you a cleric that doesn't have a Nagafen-capable guild behind you? Are you resigned to the fact that you won't get your epic for a long while? WELL THINK AGAIN!

For a limited time only I am providing you the opportunity to purchase SolB Support for when your turn in the rotation comes up. No longer must you have a real raid force behind you to get what you want! For a nominal one-time fee of only 500k platinum I will amass a force in SolB that is capable of killing Zordakalicus Ragefire and is willing to do so when your rotation slot arrives.

Due to recent developments and futile agreements, you possibly have the possibility to undeservedly claim your early Ragefire spawn now. Don't be the last chump to get your cleric epic! Pre-order your SolB Support now and receive a 1% discount.

There are at least 6 Nagafen-capable guilds on this server. Of clerics prepared for the Ragefire encounter, the vast majority are in Nagafen-capable guilds. The clerics and guilds heard from in this thread are exclusively Nagafen-capable.

Your sarcasm is not productive.

[Heebee]

I can't count the number of times I've been trained/inconvenienced, but I can tell you that most of the times it's happened without malice and without extremely negligent inconsideration, my response has been "lol shit happens."

Hehe... I dunno about that Jeremy. I've seen you go pretty spastic in Karnors! :) :) :)

[quido]

Hehe... I dunno about that Jeremy. I've seen you go pretty spastic in Karnors! :) :) :)

Heebee, you demonstrate poor reading comprehension. Do I need to reiterate for you which sort of train merits anger and which doesn't?

I for one am not shy to flip out on people when they act against me (or my pals) with definite malice (...)

Kinsawt may have you convinced of his righteousness, Heebee, but I remain dubious.

[Metallikus]

The only way I see a rotation actually working and not alienating half of the server is having a lottery for everyone that is up to that point in the Cleric Epic Quest (Orb of Clear Water and Shimmering Pearl).

I think we all know the rules lawyering and sitting at spawns is not going to stop even with the OP's current aggrement/rotation.

1. Rogean pulls from the database every cleric that currently has the Shimmering Pearl and Orb of Clear Water.

2. A random number is assigned to each cleric with highest to lowest creating the order.

3. Nagafen is still FTE but Ragefire will go in order. There could be a certain time limit to kill him but it needs to be semi lenient for the casual clerics on the list in order to put a force together.

4. If Zordak is not killed/attempted in the alloted time it defaults to the next player on the list. This would account for people not playing anymore etc.

5. Any cleric after the original list is created will be required to post in the list thread a screenshot of their Shimmering Pearl and Orb of Clear Water in order to be added to the bottom.

Honestly this is the only fair way I see of doing it.

Who's to say TMO/IB/VD will actually be willing to give up their next cleric epic to a guild not listed? I think most of us have been on the server long enough to know this isn't how it works.

If u are willing to go thru all that trouble, why not just make the rotation be determined by date that cleric got their pearl? First in first out.

[Heebee]

Heebee, you demonstrate poor reading comprehension. Do I need to reiterate for you which sort of train merits anger and which doesn't?

Kinsawt may have you convinced of his righteousness, Heebee, but I remain dubious.

Hahaha, you know I love you Jeremy :) I also miss watching you spaz out in Karnors, you always gave me entertainment value.

I am also rather fond of derailing threads, as can be evidenced by my posts.

[Motec]

Epics haven't been out but for so long.


If Killing nagafen lays claim to the triggered ragefire mob and we go by the rule-set, TMO will definitely put Nagafen back on a top priority list.

There were reasons why we didn't push for him, there are reasons we would. I imagine IB feels the same way.

QFT right there. Naggy is perhaps my favorite raid, lets not make that a shitfight.

[Motec]

Heebee got and epic and now shits on threads. Stupid convict

[Heebee]

Heebee got and epic and now shits on threads. Stupid convict

Up yours wanker!

[Motec]

speaking about my post count?...thanks!

[Heebee]

speaking about my post count?...thanks!

I am greatly impressed by your post count, especially since I was under the impression all of your posts were in RnF! :D

[Doors]

Relapsee is hands down the best cleric on p99. Rezzes me for free, hooked me up with free newbie items, and from the groups I've been in with him he was fucking pro.

Everyone else is far behind this dude.

[relapsee69]

Confirmed #1

[Nivar Quartz]

Relapsee confirmed Doors..

[getsome]

A "shared" alt cleric I play now has his pearl.

Relapsee, when you are "supposedly" up on your zordak rotation, I am going to come and click for 72 hours and show you how to go hard in the paint.

I have made a Truce with the Shadow and they will come to Solb to support my second cleric epic.

[baub]

Relapsee is hands down the best cleric on p99. Rezzes me for free, hooked me up with free newbie items, and from the groups I've been in with him he was fucking pro.

Everyone else is far behind this dude.

Guess you never seen Get$ome at work, makes relapsee look like a piece of shit cleric that he is

[Heebee]

Relapsee confirmed piece of shit cleric

[Senaiel]

Heebee confirmed best Cleric on server

[Heebee]

Heebee confirmed best Cleric on server

[john_savage1982]

It never ceases to amaze me what bullshit people will put up with to obtain a database entry and some pixels.

[Radiskull]

I think everyone can agree that this should NOT have been posted in the server chat forums, it most certainly should have been kept in guild. It is a 100% effective way for the 2 guilds (VD if the other two guilds involved want to involve them) to sort this issue out.

With that being said... Every one of those 5 clerics wasted 72+ hours of their life doing what no one else was willing to do. IB and DA created an environment where you have to poopsock to get highly contested mobs. You want sympathy from non-IB and non-TMO members about this situation? Just stop. If Amelinda reimbursed a SINGLE shard, she did her job wrong, IMO. You want to click air and risk your epic piece, fine, don't cry when you lose it. If you want to sit and click air for hours and hours on end, that's your perogative and you deserve to have your epic before anyone not willing to do that. But now you want to stop doing that, and expect everyone else on the server to stop doing the same after you started it? No one ever forced any of you to sit and click air. You brought it on yourselves. Of course you want a break, but if you want your epic in this raid environment continue to click air. If a Taken, BDA, Divinity or (insert random guild) member shows up and clicks before you, you lose. They have to deal with the repercussions of said action, but you're all still playing by the same rules. You're trying to create seperate rules for the highest end raiders, it's offensive. Continue to do what you've done to stay on top. Don't ask for a respite.

Don't get sick of poopsocking and expect anyone else on the server to not do exactly what you have been doing. If you stop clicking air, it's a free spawn, period. Since it is apparently only you 3, the agreement works out. Any SINGLE person can completely disrupt the cycle, and are not wrong in doing so. Any GM enforcement of this cycle would be out of line. If they want to make a rule about the turn in, such as first in first out, that's something I could get on board with. THIS (being publicly posted) is not the answer to the server Ragefire issue, it's an answer to the TMO, IB, VD Ragefire issue.

[shorttin]

Don't get sick of poopsocking and expect anyone else on the server to not do exactly what you have been doing. If you stop clicking air, it's a free spawn, period. Since it is apparently only you 3, the agreement works out. Any SINGLE person can completely disrupt the cycle, and are not wrong in doing so. Any GM enforcement of this cycle would be out of line. If they want to make a rule about the turn in, such as first in first out, that's something I could get on board with. THIS (being publicly posted) is not the answer to the server Ragefire issue, it's an answer to the TMO, IB, VD Ragefire issue.

[Jimes]

I'm pretty sure the people involved are not trying to force this agreement on anyone else, so stop acting like that's some great point. This is an agreement between themselves. If you and your guild think you can kill the mobs in question, then by all means go for it. Chances are you won't/can't.

[Autotune]

I think everyone can agree that this should NOT have been posted in the server chat forums, it most certainly should have been kept in guild. It is a 100% effective way for the 2 guilds (VD if the other two guilds involved want to involve them) to sort this issue out.

With that being said... Every one of those 5 clerics wasted 72+ hours of their life doing what no one else was willing to do. IB and DA created an environment where you have to poopsock to get highly contested mobs. You want sympathy from non-IB and non-TMO members about this situation? Just stop. If Amelinda reimbursed a SINGLE shard, she did her job wrong, IMO. You want to click air and risk your epic piece, fine, don't cry when you lose it. If you want to sit and click air for hours and hours on end, that's your perogative and you deserve to have your epic before anyone not willing to do that. But now you want to stop doing that, and expect everyone else on the server to stop doing the same after you started it? No one ever forced any of you to sit and click air. You brought it on yourselves. Of course you want a break, but if you want your epic in this raid environment continue to click air. If a Taken, BDA, Divinity or (insert random guild) member shows up and clicks before you, you lose. They have to deal with the repercussions of said action, but you're all still playing by the same rules. You're trying to create seperate rules for the highest end raiders, it's offensive. Continue to do what you've done to stay on top. Don't ask for a respite.

Don't get sick of poopsocking and expect anyone else on the server to not do exactly what you have been doing. If you stop clicking air, it's a free spawn, period. Since it is apparently only you 3, the agreement works out. Any SINGLE person can completely disrupt the cycle, and are not wrong in doing so. Any GM enforcement of this cycle would be out of line. If they want to make a rule about the turn in, such as first in first out, that's something I could get on board with. THIS (being publicly posted) is not the answer to the server Ragefire issue, it's an answer to the TMO, IB, VD Ragefire issue.

This rotation should not have been posted until it had run it's initial ib/tmo course and actually included everyone. People are too stupid to realize past their own interests.

First, there is nothing stopping anyone from breaking this, I agree. However, It most likely won't be IB or TMO fucking with each other. Thus, if a random from some guild comes to mess with another guild, you're going to see that guild get shit on by IB/TMO for making their collective lives harder (we do it to each other, don't think we won't do it to you).

Second, While I do agree Ninik deserves her epic more than most of the clerics on this server, I can understand the 'time invested' part. This pre-rotation of rotations will run it's course then all the other guilds can run in and start their own bullshit if they want (i'm sure it will happen).

So yeah, Taken, BDA, Divinity or any other guild could come in and start clicking IB or TMO's air, but what you're opening is going to be way worse than what you imagine. As you will effectively guarantee that your guild not get an epic as easy as you would have.

Aka, you idiots just don't know.

[Radiskull]

Stealin, you fall into the category of people too stupid to see part their own interest. I have zero interest in ever doing anything with this camp. This is a collection of guilds trying to assert their power over guilds who won't or can't stoop to their level. Then you change the level you're willing to stoop to. I don't understand how you think it's fair to not let EVERYONE who can do what you're doing in on it. If you poopsock, everyone has to poopsock. If you don't poopsock, no one has to poopsock. You want everyone else on the server to abide by YOUR set of rules on this one camp. Be realistic.

[Jimes]

This is a collection of guilds trying to assert their power over guilds who won't or can't stoop to their level.

I'll say it again, this is an agreement between those involved and is not binding on anyone else at all.

[Radiskull]

Jimes, reread the first post and get back to me. It literally says we think the server can accept.

[Radiskull]

And I'm sorry, I understand this is only an agreement between the aforementioned guilds, I just question whether the guilds know this only applies to their guilds. And for only as long as those guilds agree to it.

[Jimes]

It doesn't matter what it says, because the fact remains that it is not binding to anyone. If <random family guild> wants to do the camp, they can. Are they going to mobilize faster than the usual suspects, or even be able to get the kill if they are faster? Signs point to probably not.

[Radiskull]

My point exactly. Why say it in server chat?

[Kassel]

ITT: Guilds who refused to click air for 72 hours, threating to click air for 72 hours.

[Zereh]

So people who don't play and apply themselves want the same pixels as those of us who do?

Yeah. There are some serious skills required. :rolleyes:

I just refuse to sit in SolB for days, listening to you retards talk shit to each other endlessly ... besides, it was more fun helping everyone else with their fights. Accomplishing something >>> socking, even @ epic time.

I don't understand why there wasn't some preemptive thought put into how this would be handled from a management perspective. There's a reason this camp was revamped on Live ~ it wasn't changed to make it easier, it was changed so it wasn't such a huge drama-laden mess. There have been plenty of adjustments to classic on the server, one more most certainly wouldn't ruin it.

It just seems like bad behavior has always been rewarded on P99. =)

[Doors]

Guess you never seen Getsome at work

Oh you mean this scrub?

http://i41.tinypic.com/199l3a.jpg

[Gwence]

oh shit, pvp is so cool!

[ShinraTensei]

Oh you mean this scrub?

http://i41.tinypic.com/199l3a.jpg

how are you able to play with that abysmal screen resolution?

[Ele]

how are you able to play with that abysmal screen resolution?

Cropped to hide ___.

[Doors]

oh shit, pvp is so cool!

Almost as cool as waiting in line for a camp.

[Bruno]

Oh you mean this scrub?

http://i41.tinypic.com/199l3a.jpg

Nice crop bra.

[Autotune]

how are you able to play with that abysmal screen resolution?

How was anyone killed by someone with this resolution...

[Jimes]

lvl 30's in leather spamming their shaman nuke on each other. RIVETING STUFF

[getsome]

we bumped into each other again but alas we could not battle.

[Thu Dec 29 20:33:47 2011] Ghost tells you, 'damn u leveled up'

[Doors]

Yeah I am not hardcore enough to hit 50 in a little over a month on the red box. And for you mouth breathers I just cropped that using paintshop so it would upload faster (and to hide MQ).

[SavageHenry]

As far as Skope goes, I am not trying to be a total asshole here but last time IB/TMO had to go to VP and let everyone else have EVERY other mob on the server. VD got Trak/VS/Gore/Talendor/CT/Naggyx2/Vox/Sev/Dracho. While BDA/Taken/Divinity got a Dracho/Inny/Fay combined. You can remove variance all you want but even when there wasn't a variance look at the results. You ask for a level playing field but when you got one on a FULL REPOP and an actual Dracho/Naggy spawn before the repop look at the results.

You're not being an asshole, but the fact is that Fay was the only mob we could get at a reasonable time (before 1AM EST) and none of those targets except for maybe Trak/Gore would be impossible for Taken/Div/BDA to take out. The current "full repops" are staggered, so it doesn't help at all when most of the targets start spawning between 3-6 AM when no one but a hardcore guild will get any of them before they're all dead. And the bosses would never be staggered to that extent if full repops were happening during normal raid hours. But that's off-topic anyway.

So far, I know of a dozen clerics in Taken/Div that need Ragefire and haven't been participating in the sockfest going on now. I can't speak for other guilds' clerics but that's a dozen clerics IB/VD/TMO didn't have to compete with. I support the rotation going on right now, but to expect the casual clerics to stay out of it after the next patch is unreasonable IMO.

[Lazortag]

You're not being an asshole, but the fact is that Fay was the only mob we could get at a reasonable time (before 1AM EST) and none of those targets except for maybe Trak/Gore would be impossible for Taken/Div/BDA to take out. The current "full repops" are staggered, so it doesn't help at all when most of the targets start spawning between 3-6 AM when no one but a hardcore guild will get any of them before they're all dead. And the bosses would never be staggered to that extent if full repops were happening during normal raid hours. But that's off-topic anyway.

...

This is all true. When the server finally repopped it was about a day after VP was released, and at some ridiculous time like 3 in the morning (EST). I was there and I remember being told we were going after Sev with Taken. We had a good attempt on him where we got him to 6% with 25 people, but given how early in the morning it was, and how awful the lag was (it was taking people 10 minutes just to loot their corpses), most people just said "fuck it" and went to bed. At that point the vast majority of raid mobs were still up, so it's not like we weren't quick enough, it's just that other factors like lag and sleep prevailed over our desire to get pixels. Senaiel, if you're trying to prove that casual guilds are actually unskilled and poorly coordinated, that's not a very good example to use, considering we've done very well on past server repops (not that this is a pissing contest, but on post-kunark repops we've gotten (separately) VS, naggy/vox, inny/fay/noble, naggy/inny/draco, just from what I remember).

edit: and I also agree that staggered repops are dumb, and completely defeat the purpose of server repops, in addition to not being classic.

[Werlop]

This is all true. When the server finally repopped it was about a day after VP was released, and at some ridiculous time like 3 in the morning (EST). I was there and I remember being told we were going after Sev with Taken. We had a good attempt on him where we got him to 6% with 25 people, but given how early in the morning it was, and how awful the lag was (it was taking people 10 minutes just to loot their corpses), most people just said "fuck it" and went to bed. At that point the vast majority of raid mobs were still up, so it's not like we weren't quick enough, it's just that other factors like lag and sleep prevailed over our desire to get pixels. Senaiel, if you're trying to prove that casual guilds are actually unskilled and poorly coordinated, that's not a very good example to use, considering we've done very well on past server repops (not that this is a pissing contest, but on post-kunark repops we've gotten (separately) VS, naggy/vox, inny/fay/noble, naggy/inny/draco, just from what I remember).

edit: and I also agree that staggered repops are dumb, and completely defeat the purpose of server repops, in addition to not being classic.

You do realize that Ragefire is probably not going to spawn during the 4 hours of primetime, yes? If your guild wants to get in on a rotation, your guild must actually be capable AND willing to kill a mob at 5AM if it should happen to spawn at that time. If your guild said "fuck it" because the mobs spawned in a time that inconvenienced them, what will they say if Ragefire spawns during an inconvenient time? I am sure that Bregan and Taken could kill Cazic Thule if one of them were left alone for a couple of hours to clear all of Fear first, but it's very different when another guild is breathing down your neck and you have to rush an engage with 98% of the zone still up. Maybe that's inconvenient, but that's EQ raiding.
I mean no disrespect to casual guilds, but if a guild expects to enjoy the privilege of an uncontested spawn at any hour then it seems reasonable to ask that they be able to mobilize a raid force at any hour to claim that spawn.

[Lazortag]

...

I mean no disrespect to casual guilds, but if a guild expects to enjoy the privilege of an uncontested spawn at any hour then it seems reasonable to ask that they be able to mobilize a raid force at any hour to claim that spawn.

...
at any hour

Not in classic.

Regardless, if a Ragefire spawned at 5AM while it was Divinity's/Taken's/BDA's turn in the rotation, and they didn't have enough to engage in a reasonable time frame, then it would just go to whoever was next in line, no? (Or it could just become FTE; my point is that there are mechanisms to deal with those kinds of situations).

As for the situation me and the poster above mentioned, I think it was more the ridiculous lag than the fact that it was so early in the morning that made us call it quits. Or it was a combination of the two. My point is that your post was kind of tangential.

[Dravingar]

Not in classic.

Hate to burst your bubble bro, but this shit isn't classic anymore. Deal with it or shut it. Variance, hoops, mallets, OT hammers, soulbound Vp key, Vp releasing 8 months after launch, charming dragons, guises/manastones/mistwalkers during kunark.

[Dravingar]

Also, gonna post this for shits and giggles and bolding the parts that are valid.

Hello Clerics of Luclin. We have a system in place that has allowed our server to remain civil about Ragefire where others have failed. It is not perfect but it has worked very well. It is a list for individuals, not guilds, that we Clerics continue to make work. Note, that in this list description, the Ragefire spawn that is regulated is the one that rare-spawns in the SKYFIRE zone. The Ragefire in Solb does not follow any hard official rules at this time.

To get on the list you MUST have your Pearl ready to hand in. Once you have received your pearl, you must show a screenshot of it as well. The screenshot must be a normal full screenshot (any of the F10 screens are fine). The screenshot must have the stats of the pearl (displayed by righting clicking the pearl), and the cleric's name on it. (name often found in the upper-right corner of the screen, unless you changed your screen options around a bit)
The screenshot may either be posted to this list if you know how, or if not, then emailed to cayleueq@yahoo.com. Altering the format of the screenshot to jpg or something like that is fine if you wish, to reduce the size of those huge bmp screenshots, but that's it.

*note* it is highly recommended to send your screenshot as a jpg instead of the way the game makes it. See here for a quick tutorial by me on how to do this.

To get on the list AND to remain on the list, you also MUST be at least 50th level. You can then email me at cayleueq@yahoo.com with the screenshot and I will add you to the list when your level is verified. If you would like to send me a tell, or post here, in addition to the emailed screenshot that is fine also, but you need to email me to be certain. In addition, your guild affiliation will be listed with your name, in order to make it easier for others to contact you. In no way will one cleric be weighed or judged better than another on this list by their guild. (Or lack of one, though a guild of friends could certainly make camping Ragefire an easier task) If your guild is incorrectly listed, please let me know by posting, or emailing cayleueq@yahoo.com Finally, if you seriously announce that you are quitting Everquest, and then you do quit playing, you will be removed from the list, and will have to rejoin at the bottom if you change your mind and return to the game.

There will be NO swapping or giving away places on the list. The only exception will be if someone with a Pearl needs to pass on their turn at Rage. They may let the person directly behind them go. (See Comments below the list on Camping Rage) If you do not have your Pearl and your time for Rage comes you will be removed from the list.

Rage should be killed as quickly as possible after he pops. This list is saving you a huge amount of time by giving you as fair a shot at Rage as you will find. The server is not going to wait 8 hours or an entire evening for Rage to die. Do what it takes to get him killed quickly so the next Cleric can get started on theirs. A few hours for you to get home from school or work is fine as long as the person doing the camp for you knows exactly when you will be on. If you know that you will be a little late should Rage pop at a specific time, it is up to you to make sure the clerics on the list will know about it. If the server is due to come down very soon during your camp, you had better be darned sure that you'll be able to take Rage down before a possible spawn is wasted.

------Current list as of 8/19/02-----

Rauntek (Nocturnal Sun)
Lusena (Praxiums)
Rennix (Glorious Rising)
Kakmer (Praxiums)
Niggon (War Council of Dune)
Banddage (Heroes)
Sarrina
Jillie (Nemesys)
Auntiem (5R)
Ailex (Nemesys)
Kalodan (Glorious Rising)
Lexxus (Glorious Rising)
Goldenmad (Blood Alliance)
Catlynn (Veeshan's Talons)
Pranav (IB)
Falilx (Praxiums)
Hotti (Heroes)
Landail (Titans)
Annastacy
Elistann
Adassya (VoS)
Rebosado (VoS)
Redmace (Titans)
Medious (IB)
Luxor (IB)
Clermont (VL)
Bristorn (VoS)
Jullianna (Glorious Rising)
Moonrea (Titans)
Ainna
Nendain (CoS)
Jantus (Titans)
Shaline (Blood Alliance)
Kaerik (Triad)
Iyah (Epic Courage)
Tresoom (Veeshan's Talons)
Rehtaeh (Valor's Companions)
Balar (Praxiums)
Shinfaen (Glorious Rising)
Silverrane (Endorean)
Qttie (VoS)
Kaplan
Chatte (Heroes)
Atrina (Heroes)
Youhou (CJ)
Fumata (VoS)
Karj (Tribal Rage)
Nematoad (Glorious Rising)
Falamar (IB)
Sindela (Glorious Rising)
Vallyn (IB)
Shannaria (IB)
Qwiny (Triad)
Ivanoe (Triad)
Ambrerle (CJ)
Baldder (Tribal Rage)
Tabbykat (CJ)
Xestis
Teffun (Nocturnal Sun)
Restandre
Soulprovider (Fearless Crusaders)

status offlineJullianna Shininglight Re: Old Ragefire list #3 [-]

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Posts: 433

(02/18/03 03:50:11)

Hug me! I'm a nice cleric!

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If that list was in effect still, I would have gotten my sprinkler last month. :(

[Motec]

Hi.

It is an epic quest.

All of you whinging bitches of clerics and the door knob fellating spastic friends of yours do not and will not get an epic, because it is an epic.

Put in epic commitment, make epic friendships, have epic guildmates or friends, have an epic ability to play long hours and have an epic persona that precludes you from being one of the dull masses lets you earn an epic.

This is not a 'right', its a privilege. Its not a right of passage, the right of passage is months or years of establishing yourself as someone worthy of having 20 people stop everything at 3am to kill a mob in a game for you. Dont have those kind of friends and connections, then you dont get an epic. You get a tainted battleworn morningstar.

The fiery avenger style particle quests were not put in so everyone gets one, they are not class defining, as this stage in the game they are for the best of the best and some scrubs that scrape by. Not for the bleeding heart and ignorant.

[Motec]

Also rotations that stop us being dicks to eachother are excellent. Well played.

[Heebee]

Motec confirmed scrub.

[Tasslehofp99]

wtb rotation for VS too pls :(

[Motec]

scraping by with class and attitude!

[visage]

LOL Nerds crying to eachother about taking turns wasting hours of their life on a mob. Lol the fact you want to claim a mob for certain people and let others have it after is funny at best. Seriusly you should let the rest of the server camp rage fire and go last for good sport. Considering your powerhouse guilds have dominated the rest of the continent making us wait. Take a sit for a change. Otherwise keep crying about how others are ruining your shit stocking exp

[Jimes]

Hi.

It is an epic quest.

All of you whinging bitches of clerics and the door knob fellating spastic friends of yours do not and will not get an epic, because it is an epic.

Put in epic commitment, make epic friendships, have epic guildmates or friends, have an epic ability to play long hours and have an epic persona that precludes you from being one of the dull masses lets you earn an epic.

This is not a 'right', its a privilege. Its not a right of passage, the right of passage is months or years of establishing yourself as someone worthy of having 20 people stop everything at 3am to kill a mob in a game for you. Dont have those kind of friends and connections, then you dont get an epic. You get a tainted battleworn morningstar.

The fiery avenger style particle quests were not put in so everyone gets one, they are not class defining, as this stage in the game they are for the best of the best and some scrubs that scrape by. Not for the bleeding heart and ignorant.

It's rite of passage, not right of passage you ignorant pleb. But everything you said is correct. A lot in this thread come across as entitled whiners who think that because they exist they deserve the same things that those who put in 10x the time. Occupiers. . .

[relapsee69]

Grats Xeli (tmo) on your epic bro!

[Autotune]

Grats Xeli (tmo) on your epic bro!

confirmed 100% relapsee next.

[Jarnauga]

http://i.imgur.com/4U0Y3.png

over 10 hours on paint.

You guys that think you're awesome because you kill everything on a 12 years old game where everything is documented, maps, spawnpoints, respawn time, full walkthrough with screenshots, and so on..

Me too guys, im a badass, i know the konami code by heart !

That's pathetic. Even freaking farmville must be harder than that. and even more fun.

[Autotune]

http://i.imgur.com/4U0Y3.png

over 10 hours on paint.

You guys that think you're awesome because you kill everything on a 12 years old game where everything is documented, maps, spawnpoints, respawn time, full walkthrough with screenshots, and so on..

Me too guys, im a badass, i know the konami code by heart !

That's pathetic. Even freaking farmville must be harder than that. and even more fun.

must hurt your feelings you can't kill pixels where everything is documented, maps, spawnpoints, respawn time, full walkthrough with screenshots, and so on..


Pls, deposit your tears and we will comfort you.

[Jimes]

http://i.imgur.com/4U0Y3.png

over 10 hours on paint.

You guys that think you're awesome because you kill everything on a 12 years old game where everything is documented, maps, spawnpoints, respawn time, full walkthrough with screenshots, and so on..

Me too guys, im a badass, i know the konami code by heart !

That's pathetic. Even freaking farmville must be harder than that. and even more fun.

How does it feel to not be able to kill everything in a 12 year old game?

[Caridry]

All things aside, its good to see feuding guilds get along at least for something....

[Lazortag]

Yeah, make no mistake, I think it's great that the three big guilds agreed to work something out. Anything that makes their members suffer less is an improvement for the server, and I doubt anyone wishes more suffering on the people who've wasted dozens of hours of their life in the same zone just for the chance at a ragefire. But what happens next? Do you really want the casual guilds to step in, one by one, and poopsock the spawn so that the rotation agreement has to keep being rewritten? Why not skip that part since we all recognize, especially IB/TMO, how much of a waste of time it is to "compete" over this spawn?

I keep asking this question but all I get are red herrings about how (a) small guilds are not skilled enough to kill Naggy (which is both untrue and irrelevant) and (b) small guilds will just leave Ragefire up for 15 hours straight and waste everyone's time (which no one is defending). Really?

[Llabak]

I'm glad you folks got things worked out. I'm going to go masturbate to the belief that my suggestion in the other thread spurred this to happen.

[Xeliso]

Grats Xeli (tmo) on your epic bro!

<3 Good luck on next one. Let's see who walks out victorious!

[Motec]

bump

[Fromage]

Bumping this!

"At the same time, we would like to have a 3 day festival for Ninik's Epic Poopsock when the time comes"

Both raid guilds suspended? The time has come IMO

[relapsee69]

Nirron finished up the first 5 last week. Last i heard Vd killed naggy and 5 hours later Ragefire spawned Maultriss from VD finished hers. If ragefire was fixed with this patch means another one is in window right now. GL niknik i doubt anyone will contest you getting one next untill the people who made the agreement works something out for everyone.

[Lanuven]

GL niknik i doubt anyone will contest you getting one next untill the people who made the agreement works something out for everyone.

This is not the case atm..sad day tbo.

[zahlia]

Nirron finished up the first 5 last week. Last i heard Vd killed naggy and 5 hours later Ragefire spawned Maultriss from VD finished hers. If ragefire was fixed with this patch means another one is in window right now. GL niknik i doubt anyone will contest you getting one next untill the people who made the agreement works something out for everyone.

I wuz dere when Naggy died, an' I campded dere (dint wants click 'gainst Maultriss, VD also dint has none cleric epics yet an' Maultriss very active an' also VERYVERY NICE NOTAGNOME) so I camed back when human Ragefire spawnded to offers helps squish dragon an' to start mine's camp fer nex' one, cuz I thoughted mebbe now mine's turn. I was tellded dat not only nex' one not mine's turn, but none all week. I stayded fer liddle while an' thoughted 'bout clickin' 'gainst the folks who wuz dere, but after talkin' to some folks, an' thinkin' 'bout alla stuffs I've learnded dis week 'bout how dis server works, I realizeded dat I wuz miser'ble sittin' dere. As I allays saided 'bout dis game, iffin you is not havin' fun, you is doin' it WRONG! So I leaved. Not decided yet wut I am wants to do nex'. All I know fer sure is dat playin' a game s'posedta be FUN, an' gettin' epic supposedta be LOTSA FUN! I wuz doin' somethin' wrong.

[Xeliso]

I wuz dere when Naggy died, an' I campded dere (dint wants click 'gainst Maultriss, VD also dint has none cleric epics yet an' Maultriss very active an' also VERYVERY NICE NOTAGNOME) so I camed back when human Ragefire spawnded to offers helps squish dragon an' to start mine's camp fer nex' one, cuz I thoughted mebbe now mine's turn. I was tellded dat not only nex' one not mine's turn, but none all week. I stayded fer liddle while an' thoughted 'bout clickin' 'gainst the folks who wuz dere, but after talkin' to some folks, an' thinkin' 'bout alla stuffs I've learnded dis week 'bout how dis server works, I realizeded dat I wuz miser'ble sittin' dere. As I allays saided 'bout dis game, iffin you is not havin' fun, you is doin' it WRONG! So I leaved. Not decided yet wut I am wants to do nex'. All I know fer sure is dat playin' a game s'posedta be FUN, an' gettin' epic supposedta be LOTSA FUN! I wuz doin' somethin' wrong.


Kinda disappointed on people basically telling Ninik to "fuck off" seriously.

[Rais]

Kinda disappointed on people basically telling Ninik to "fuck off" seriously.

Kind of like TMO and IB have done towards the entire server? Yea, I agree

[Dravingar]

Kinda disappointed on people basically telling Ninik to "fuck off" seriously.

I think it's because most people skip over her messages because they are horribly painful to read, like I've tried three different times and I get past the first sentence and my brain hurts.

[Autotune]

I wuz dere when Naggy died, an' I campded dere (dint wants click 'gainst Maultriss, VD also dint has none cleric epics yet an' Maultriss very active an' also VERYVERY NICE NOTAGNOME) so I camed back when human Ragefire spawnded to offers helps squish dragon an' to start mine's camp fer nex' one, cuz I thoughted mebbe now mine's turn. I was tellded dat not only nex' one not mine's turn, but none all week. I stayded fer liddle while an' thoughted 'bout clickin' 'gainst the folks who wuz dere, but after talkin' to some folks, an' thinkin' 'bout alla stuffs I've learnded dis week 'bout how dis server works, I realizeded dat I wuz miser'ble sittin' dere. As I allays saided 'bout dis game, iffin you is not havin' fun, you is doin' it WRONG! So I leaved. Not decided yet wut I am wants to do nex'. All I know fer sure is dat playin' a game s'posedta be FUN, an' gettin' epic supposedta be LOTSA FUN! I wuz doin' somethin' wrong.

I should cleanse solb.

[Xeliso]

Kind of like TMO and IB have done towards the entire server? Yea, I agree

You are entirely wrong btw. We've said in the past we didn't mind Ninik taking an epic, and we'd even help her kill Ragefire. We made a rotation between the initial 5 clerics because of time spent in lair. Once the rotation was finished it was to be decided how we'd continue.

So if you just drove Ninik to basically quit because of your guilds intentions, you guys are responsible.

[Autotune]

Kind of like TMO and IB have done towards the entire server? Yea, I agree

Aye, justify your actions with the actions of others. Real mature.


TMO and IB can decide on a rotation, yet the rest of the server can't? Or is it just VD being greedy?

[ownrage]

I wuz dere when Naggy died, an' I campded dere (dint wants click 'gainst Maultriss, VD also dint has none cleric epics yet an' Maultriss very active an' also VERYVERY NICE NOTAGNOME) so I camed back when human Ragefire spawnded to offers helps squish dragon an' to start mine's camp fer nex' one, cuz I thoughted mebbe now mine's turn. I was tellded dat not only nex' one not mine's turn, but none all week. I stayded fer liddle while an' thoughted 'bout clickin' 'gainst the folks who wuz dere, but after talkin' to some folks, an' thinkin' 'bout alla stuffs I've learnded dis week 'bout how dis server works, I realizeded dat I wuz miser'ble sittin' dere. As I allays saided 'bout dis game, iffin you is not havin' fun, you is doin' it WRONG! So I leaved. Not decided yet wut I am wants to do nex'. All I know fer sure is dat playin' a game s'posedta be FUN, an' gettin' epic supposedta be LOTSA FUN! I wuz doin' somethin' wrong.

who told you all this? what's the source?

[Glitterati]

I wuz dere when Naggy died, an' I campded dere (dint wants click 'gainst Maultriss, VD also dint has none cleric epics yet an' Maultriss very active an' also VERYVERY NICE NOTAGNOME) so I camed back when human Ragefire spawnded to offers helps squish dragon an' to start mine's camp fer nex' one, cuz I thoughted mebbe now mine's turn. I was tellded dat not only nex' one not mine's turn, but none all week. I stayded fer liddle while an' thoughted 'bout clickin' 'gainst the folks who wuz dere, but after talkin' to some folks, an' thinkin' 'bout alla stuffs I've learnded dis week 'bout how dis server works, I realizeded dat I wuz miser'ble sittin' dere. As I allays saided 'bout dis game, iffin you is not havin' fun, you is doin' it WRONG! So I leaved. Not decided yet wut I am wants to do nex'. All I know fer sure is dat playin' a game s'posedta be FUN, an' gettin' epic supposedta be LOTSA FUN! I wuz doin' somethin' wrong.

This makes my heart sad =(

<3 you Ninik!

[bizzum]

Kind of like TMO and IB have done towards the entire server? Yea, I agree

And now instead of being a better person you are being just as giant of a shithead as we were.

I also believe it was one of those guilds members (read: me) who suggested that she be considered because of her contributions to the server and garnered some support until it was shot down by a select few.

Anyways thats still all in the past, Ninik for epic president still imo! :)

[Kole1]

i mean if we can do ragefire within the suspension rules....i dont think anyone in IB minds if we come together and help Ninik.

TMO/IB/VD had reached a tentative solution regarding the next few pre-patch epics, but upon a patch we had figured we could expand this and work something out getting other guilds in

This just happened at a time when people are stepping away for a few days because of the suspension...so we havent had any further discussions....

I think that a rotation has been viewed as "fair" and the "right way" to approach ragefire...and really the only risk of someone leaving ragefire up is just wasting time.
If a cleric in IB or TMO or VD or whatever is not up for that particular ragefire but tracks periodically and sees a zordak up...why not just batphone, show up in force, and see if the cleric will admit they cant muster a force in time and take it that way.... I'm not saying give the cleric a half hour at any time of day, but at the same time...on live you didnt schedule a ragefire--My first one on live was at 5 am and i had to call every single person that showed up for them to log in.

Work out a rotation, if you cant muster a force at an off hour, you get pushed back, and if you wipe, well whatever the server rules are if you wipe.

Ragefire isn't "easy" for a guild that doesn't kill dragons routinely. Not that he can't be killed--he can. But ragefire has NEVER, except maybe on new servers, been the type of thing you have the luxury of scheduling or timing.

On the other hand, he spawns more frequently, so whatever.

I think there should be a rotation of guilds, subject to the serve rules

[Rais]

Yes clearly VD is the bad ones for wanting 2 epics.

Justify? How about killing naggy in the first place to even let him spawn. Hell be up a few times this week before the TMO/IB clickfest starts all over again. So I'm pretty sure she'll get it. So I wouldn't stress it.

If you were hell bent on getting Nin her epic, you could have let her have your spot. Seeing as you didn't, you didn't care.

[bizzum]

Yes clearly VD is the bad ones for wanting 2 epics.

Justify? How about killing naggy in the first place to even let him spawn. Hell be up a few times this week before the TMO/IB clickfest starts all over again. So I'm pretty sure she'll get it. So I wouldn't stress it.

If you were hell bent on getting Nin her epic, you could have let her have your spot. Seeing as you didn't, you didn't care.

I didnt have a spot to give up, or honestly, I would have. I got the easy way out with a Shaman epic though, sorry! If she gets it, Ill be happy, if not, maybe Ill try to do something to help her.

I didn't say you were bad for wanting epics, you certainly waited your turn, but I had no part in making the agreement, all I did was stir things up trying to get a little gnome her epic =P. I just wish things were different.

Edit: BTW Koleviis post was too long i didn't read it don't know if you were talking to me or not =)