Do pets take up XP?

[Sirbanmelotz]

Yes.

No?

[Hailto]

They do unless you do over 50% of the damage yourself, if you do, you get full xp.

[Hawkdog]

Duo with another pet class to eliminate the nerf. Reclaim your pet before mob death to get full xp solo.

[Galaa]

I remembered in live classic, as long as u deal any damage (even 1%), u will get full XP despite the pet dealing 99%. It wasnt till a later expansion (not sure if its Kunark or later) that Verant decided to implement the nerf making u needing to deal more than 50% dmg to get full XP.

Didnt know P99 is going the non classic way of needing more than 50% damage to get full XP, i always though it'll be more classic (any damage for full XP)

[emp82]

I remembered in live classic, as long as u deal any damage (even 1%), u will get full XP despite the pet dealing 99%. It wasnt till a later expansion (not sure if its Kunark or later) that Verant decided to implement the nerf making u needing to deal more than 50% dmg to get full XP.

Didnt know P99 is going the non classic way of needing more than 50% damage to get full XP, i always though it'll be more classic (any damage for full XP)

It was changed according to the timeline to require the 50% damage. On live it was changed back after Luclin was released to only require the 1hp damage for full XP. Sadly, we will not see those days again. In this regard the server is classic.

[bman8810]

It really hurts low level pet classes.

[Galaa]

Q: does being in a group eliminate the pet taking XP? Even if the pet does 90% of the damage and the group deals the other 10%? Or will the 50% damage rule still apply?

[Pyrocat]

Q: does being in a group eliminate the pet taking XP? Even if the pet does 90% of the damage and the group deals the other 10%? Or will the 50% damage rule still apply?

That's a good question, and one I've wondered myself. If anyone has an answer or has done some testing please post and I'll add it to the FAQ.

Do you need to outdamage your pet in a group situation, does your group need to outdamage your pet, or does the pet competition simply disappear when you're grouped?

[webrunner5]

Solo you have to do 51% of the damage to get 100% XP. If you do less than 51% you only get 25% XP.

It has been my experience that in a group the XP pet penality goes away.

But I have totaly stopped playing my Mage solo since the pet nerf. I know that a Mage can still probably solo a bit faster than most classes, it just sucks compared to what it was. If the Fire pet could hold agro then it might not be too bad. But it doesn't and the Earth pet is a pretty big downgrade to a Fire pet. With the Torch Quest the Fire pet has nearly as much HP as the Earth pet.

And try playing one on Red with the nerf. Good luck with that as slow as XP is on there. Solo you pretty much have to have the Earth pet for root in case you get PKed. So even less XP then the Fire pet could help with. Not good.

The pet nerf really hurt Enchanters also solo along with the Twrill till you Hurl nerf. Even effects their Charmed pets also. It has not been too bad on Necros though. Dots usually outdamge their pets.

[wolvesoflegend]

I think if you are grouped it does not matter, but I'm not sure. If pet does more than 50% of damage of group, then I don't think pet takes exp. I dunno tho.

[sbvera13]

My suspicion is that the GROUP has to do more then 50% of the dmg, which should be trivial. I havn't tested it though, since I havn't leveled a pet class up above 10 yet. The only time I can see it mattering if true is with charm.

[mala]

the entire "pet take exp unless you do over 51%" rule is thrown out when your in a group. this was taken advantage of on red where mages would keep someone in group, but out of zone to gain full exp. im not sure if this has been hot fixed yet. but as of a few weeks ago, thats how it worked.

[tristantio]

What about charm?

If a charmed pet does over 50% damage do they take 75% of the xp?

What about in cases where the charm is broken prior to killing the mob?

When killing a previously charmed pet that is taken down to lower than 50% life from mob-damage is there any reduction in xp?

[Flunklesnarkin]

I found the 50% damage rule works for npc's also


I soloed my cleric a lot in the high 20's and low to mid 30's

and I'd run around Firiona Vie and the spiders / goblins / drolvargs would beat on the npc's then die with the monster around 50% health... then I'd root nuke it.

w/e the monster was under 50% health no exp.. over 50% i got exp..

once i got higher in level tho i could just solo them w/o npc help.. but it still nice to have a little extra dps on the side from npc heh.

[Hawkdog]

From my personal experience when duoing with Cleric or Druid, even if they only heal we get the same exp as we would if we dismissed the pet, so being in a group eliminates the nerf.

There was a way to bypass this but it was recently fixed, you could group with someone in another zone and solo and get full solo exp but it was fixed alas.

So to confirm, being grouped with another player in the same zone will eliminate the exp nerf, duo away casters.

[formallydickman]

What about charm?

If a charmed pet does over 50% damage do they take 75% of the xp?

What about in cases where the charm is broken prior to killing the mob?

When killing a previously charmed pet that is taken down to lower than 50% life from mob-damage is there any reduction in xp?

Yes.

If charm breaks you should get full credit.

If the mob who dealt the damage to the previously-charmed pet is dead you should get full credit.

[Widan]

Pet aggro still doesn't work so this change seems pretty fucking dumb

[Pyrocat]

Pet aggro still doesn't work so this change seems pretty fucking dumb

It's been a long standing policy on this server to make things as classicly as possible. Changing something to be un-classic (removing pet exp nerf) to fix something that isn't classic goes against that policy. There are some rare exceptions such as mob variable, but they are pretty hard line about it.

[Widan]

This change actually doesn't have the same effects of the classic change because of the pet aggro problems among other things, so the 'classic' argument doesn't work here anyways.

[Galaa]

From my personal experience when duoing with Cleric or Druid, even if they only heal we get the same exp as we would if we dismissed the pet, so being in a group eliminates the nerf.

There was a way to bypass this but it was recently fixed, you could group with someone in another zone and solo and get full solo exp but it was fixed alas.

So to confirm, being grouped with another player in the same zone will eliminate the exp nerf, duo away casters.

what about grouping with someone in the same zone, but the other player is too far to get any XP? Will the magi still get full XP?

[Galaa]

It's been a long standing policy on this server to make things as classicly as possible. Changing something to be un-classic (removing pet exp nerf) to fix something that isn't classic goes against that policy. There are some rare exceptions such as mob variable, but they are pretty hard line about it.

there are many un-classic changes in P99, such as meditating without spellbook for casters below lv 35, as well as total night blindness for humans and barbarians...

So if P99 is really strict about being classic, they should have reverted these changes.

[Raavak]

there are many un-classic changes in P99, such as meditating without spellbook for casters below lv 35, as well as total night blindness for humans and barbarians...

So if P99 is really strict about being classic, they should have reverted these changes.

I used to say that P99 was EQ as it should have been. But some things like hybrid exp penalty and pets stealing exp discussed here really should be "fixed" as well to qualify for that. But there are probably hundreds of things that fall into that category. Devs drew a line and some things didn't meet their vision. Oh well.

[Craigmandu]

As a low necro...no way can I do more dmg than my pet on a blue/even con mob without blowing most of my mana bar on one creature. I just can't do 51%. And I'm not about to start reclaiming right before a mob dies and resummoning...that would eat up mana like crazy too. It's not that big of a deal to me though...I lived with it as a necro on live in 2000, I can live with it here...although it was sweet when they removed it.

For me right now, the pet aggro is a real problem...I can send in a pet and let it do 30% damage to a creature, and one spell....blam it's on me and won't get off. It was not like that on live as I recall.

[utenan]

there are many un-classic changes in P99, such as meditating without spellbook for casters below lv 35, as well as total night blindness for humans and barbarians...

So if P99 is really strict about being classic, they should have reverted these changes.


If I a may quote Nilbog :

"All of these demands have been on a list of requested classic mechanics/features since the beginning of the project. This list is comprised of source requests and as far as we know, "unfixable" issues.

Only recently have we devised any chance of fixing some of it. That's why the .dll files came into the picture. If you noticed, we have been adding client features which have long been missing or non-classically persistent. (brown skeletons, gypsy women models, spellset removal, 'new era' tradeskill recipe window interface bypasses directly to experiment mode for combine containers)

I detect heavy sarcasm from this thread, but I will take it as it is. With that being said, the rest of this thread will be in response to as if you were serious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doors View Post
If you're going to go all out, stop cherry picking features and actually do it.

They aren't cherry picked. Fixes are created when we have the means to do so. Like the community often commands, "why fix stupid faces when you can fix Y or Z".. and that's what we do. If there are crashes or any type of exploitation, those issues take priority over the removal of say...item links.

If you have these fixes, please give. If you have a way to completely and immediately convert the project to classic, please do. I would love to play instead of develop. Otherwise, make bug reports, research and post as much information as possible, and chill out. That's the best you can do unless you pick up development and submit fixes.

I'm with you. Let's make it as classic as possible."

[nalkin]

If you let a pet do 90% of the damage to a mob, then dismiss the pet and resummon a new one, then let that pet do 9% and you do 1%, do you get full xp or not?

In the scenario above again, say after you get a new pet you do 6% and the pet does 4%, do you get full xp?

[Widan]

If I a may quote Nilbog :
They aren't cherry picked. Fixes are created when we have the means to do so. Like the community often commands, "why fix stupid faces when you can fix Y or Z".. and that's what we do. If there are crashes or any type of exploitation, those issues take priority over the removal of say...item links.


But the fixes should be cherry picked. We are playing on an emulated server that has a lot of broken basic mechanics, so when you implement a 'classic' change you first have to look at what effects the change will have. Some classic changes, when implemented, actually make this server less classic, because the broken mechanics cause the 'classic' changes to have completely different effects than they did on live servers. Anyone trying to solo on a low level pet class can see this easily today.

[Elissa]

But the fixes should be cherry picked. We are playing on an emulated server that has a lot of broken basic mechanics, so when you implement a 'classic' change you first have to look at what effects the change will have. Some classic changes, when implemented, actually make this server less classic, because the broken mechanics cause the 'classic' changes to have completely different effects than they did on live servers. Anyone trying to solo on a low level pet class can see this easily today.

I agree. I've always been okay with keeping to the classic timeline as far as content releases, item removals/changes, etc. But when it comes to actual interface improvement, classic graphic improvements, modern conveniences like linking items, etc., I don't see why anyone would support going back to clearly inferior iterations unless the modern version trivializes or breaks the game. For example, removing the target ring for the sake of being more "classic" was something I think was a mistake. I don't see how its removal enhances the "classic" experience at all and it certainly didn't trivialize combat, targeting or anything else. On the other hand, removing global chat in order to encourage the revival of EC (which everyone will agree is a staple of "classic" everquest despite being, in some cases, less convenient than being able to "sell anywhere"), was a great decision. Obviously, each non-classic issue should be considered on a case-by-case basis.

Class "balancing" is a grey area, I think. Does this pet/exp change fundamentally change how most pet classes (especially magicians) are played, in a way that makes them less fun? Yes, sort of. Given that you can just sac the pet (which higher level magicians tend to do anyway), it's more of an inconvenience than anything. But it certainly does make the class less fun, more difficult, and since the change was ultimately reverted... why put the magician class in an inferior, less fun state when the class was definitely not broken before? If it was a necessary nerf for an overpowered class problem, I'd understand. But that's not the case here. Absent that, I just don't see how it enhances the "classic" experience when for the first 2 years of classic it was okay, but now its not, just because Verant did it that way (and we know they ultimately decided that was a mistake).

[wolvesoflegend]

From my personal experience when duoing with Cleric or Druid, even if they only heal we get the same exp as we would if we dismissed the pet, so being in a group eliminates the nerf.

There was a way to bypass this but it was recently fixed, you could group with someone in another zone and solo and get full solo exp but it was fixed alas.

So to confirm, being grouped with another player in the same zone will eliminate the exp nerf, duo away casters.

Thanks!

[Widan]

Class "balancing" is a grey area, I think. Does this pet/exp change fundamentally change how most pet classes (especially magicians) are played, in a way that makes them less fun? Yes, sort of. Given that you can just sac the pet (which higher level magicians tend to do anyway), it's more of an inconvenience than anything. But it certainly does make the class less fun, more difficult, and since the change was ultimately reverted... why put the magician class in an inferior, less fun state when the class was definitely not broken before? If it was a necessary nerf for an overpowered class problem, I'd understand. But that's not the case here. Absent that, I just don't see how it enhances the "classic" experience when for the first 2 years of classic it was okay, but now its not, just because Verant did it that way (and we know they ultimately decided that was a mistake).

I understand, but my point was more that you have to consider the total results of these changes + the things that are broken. So since you used mage let's take low-mid level mages for our example:

Before this exp change mages were already gaining less exp than their live realm counterparts because of pet aggro not working. As a low mage you are forced to just sit there with a full mana bar because if you nuke you will instantly take aggro from your pet, so this directly slows down mage experience. Now the classic nerf that is supposed to take exp down to 25% actually lowers it to some value below 25% since the non classic mechanic of pet aggro not working has already lowered the rate at which mages gain exp. The final result ends up being a larger nerf than what was intended by classic.

[wolvesoflegend]

It's been a long standing policy on this server to make things as classicly as possible. Changing something to be un-classic (removing pet exp nerf) to fix something that isn't classic goes against that policy. There are some rare exceptions such as mob variable, but they are pretty hard line about it.

I couldn't agree more. We are here for the classic experience in the first place. :)

[Elissa]

I understand, but my point was more that you have to consider the total results of these changes + the things that are broken. So since you used mage let's take low-mid level mages for our example:

Before this exp change mages were already gaining less exp than their live realm counterparts because of pet aggro not working. As a low mage you are forced to just sit there with a full mana bar because if you nuke you will instantly take aggro from your pet, so this directly slows down mage experience. Now the classic nerf that is supposed to take exp down to 25% actually lowers it to some value below 25% since the non classic mechanic of pet aggro not working has already lowered the rate at which mages gain exp. The final result ends up being a larger nerf than what was intended by classic.

Right, again, I agree. My point was that the change is stupid, regardless. lol. Glad I'm not a lowbie mage anymore.

[Elissa]

I couldn't agree more. We are here for the classic experience in the first place. :)

Better move into a crappy apartment, quit your job (or ditch class if you're in college), live off ramen noodles, play on a 14" monitor at 800x600, connect on a 14.4k modem and listen to Soundgarden if you want the true classic experience. Oops, maybe that was just me. Still, I think most will agree some elements that contributed to the classic experience are better off improved =P

[yraapt]

If you let a pet do 90% of the damage to a mob, then dismiss the pet and resummon a new one, then let that pet do 9% and you do 1%, do you get full xp or not?

In the scenario above again, say after you get a new pet you do 6% and the pet does 4%, do you get full xp?

I'd be curious to know the answer to this if anyone knows.

[formallydickman]

If you let a pet do 90% of the damage to a mob, then dismiss the pet and resummon a new one, then let that pet do 9% and you do 1%, do you get full xp or not?

In the scenario above again, say after you get a new pet you do 6% and the pet does 4%, do you get full xp?

Just tried this to double check.

If the first pet does 90%, I do 1% and the new pet does 9% you DO NOT get the full xp.

If you try your other scenario where the first pet does 90%, I do 6% and the pet does 4% then, yes, you DO get the full xp.

[wolvesoflegend]

Better move into a crappy apartment, quit your job (or ditch class if you're in college), live off ramen noodles, play on a 14" monitor at 800x600, connect on a 14.4k modem and listen to Soundgarden if you want the true classic experience. Oops, maybe that was just me. Still, I think most will agree some elements that contributed to the classic experience are better off improved =P

Oops maybe it was just you. I do well, don't need an apartment (my large house will do for now), but thanks. I meet the true classic experience quite well and live a good life too, oh my.:D Improvements are great, but easy games are plentiful. There is WoW and many other servers out there, but why should classic eq join the ranks? The only difficult server in mmo is right here. Why complain. :rolleyes:

[Elissa]

Oops maybe it was just you. I do well, don't need an apartment (my large house will do for now), but thanks. I meet the true classic experience quite well and live a good life too, oh my.:D Improvements are great, but easy games are plentiful. There is WoW and many other servers out there, but why should classic eq join the ranks? The only difficult server in mmo is right here. Why complain. :rolleyes:

Pretty sure it wasn't just me who was a broke college student in 1999 skipping classes to play EQ, but I'm glad you were apparently living it up and have a "large house" now...lol. And thanks for what, exactly? Also, has anyone in this thread been asking for the game to be made "easy"? Just wondering cause I may have missed that post :) I thought we were talking about pet exp?

[nalkin]

Just tried this to double check.

If the first pet does 90%, I do 1% and the new pet does 9% you DO NOT get the full xp.

If you try your other scenario where the first pet does 90%, I do 6% and the pet does 4% then, yes, you DO get the full xp.

Awesome, thanks for checking. This is good to know

[wolvesoflegend]

Awesome, thanks for checking. This is good to know

Yes, that is good to know. Thanks.

[Craigmandu]

My only problem with it, is that I can't outdps the pet without dying. Because the pet doesn't hold any aggro at all....I've let the pet get the creature down to UNDER 50% and then cast two lvl 1 nukes and pulled (I'm level 7 atm)...if the pet held any sort of aggro, I wouldn't have an issue with it, as I'd be able to throw enough to get marginally above him on dmg for the fights....

The only recourse I really see is multiple pets per creature, that's a really cheesy thing to have to do...or never solo....or solo and kill 4x the creatures anyone else has to for the same result....either way that's the problem I have with the pet xp thing. At least for low levels.

[fischsemmel]

Bottom line, imo, is that this mechanic breaks the way pet classes are supposed to be played.

But it's classic, oh well. That's why I quit my necro and now kill stuff with the magic of song!

[Lazortag]

My only problem with it, is that I can't outdps the pet without dying.

I don't think you're really supposed to outdps the pet, that's not the point of the nerf. The point of the nerf is to make mages take twice as long to level. Other classes that level fast had an exp penalty in classic (Bards), why not mages too?