Would you work a day Pro-Bono? Opinion Pls!

[Loretta]

I'm a graphic designer with some experience in photo studios the past year - Out of college a couple years now been doing mostly freelance since my last job debacle.

The Situation: I Had a 2.5 Hour interview Friday with a photography shop and the owner refused to commit to making a decision on if he was hiring me for real.

Sooo...okay, maybe he needs to think it over. We kind of went over everything enough that I felt any reasonable owner could make a decision on a 12$/hour Part-Time Job (2-3 days a week).

He tells me he would let me know Sunday at like 5pm...the night before I "might" start working.

So he calls me up at 6pm to let me know that he's decided!!! I can come tomorrow to observe while receiving some training - But he doesn't let me know is he isn't paying you for this time spent. And its 9:30am-7pm, which is a full day. - I find out that he is not paying me for my time, and in a way is still avoiding committing to a decision -

With all of this I realize that I can easily say this "its only one day, and what else am i doing anyways" and shrug that off but thats how Ive always been - and because of it, at my previous job (which also ironically happened to be for photography studio) ive continuously been taken advantage of by people who feel they can do that on other stuff too.

So my thinking is that if from the very start of a job ALREADY they arent even being fair for my time-spent its like a bit of a sign to me and raises the red flags - I'm trying to decide if I'm blowing all of this out of proportion, or if these bad vibes are legitimate concerns because i've felt used in the past by my employer.

My take on it is still that he's getting all the advantages, he gets to give me a "test-run" for non-committal day of work -( Wow this guy is really counting his pennies )- At worst I will be the one ending up with a days time wasted, and being quite pissed off because I could be spending that time on EVERQUEST!! (haha well.. maybe, I do have stuff to live for outside this game too) -

Of course where better to find advice on such endeavors than the P99 forums !!! Thanx :).

-L

[President]

The paragraph about him saying whether he is going to pay you or not is a bit confusing. He wants you to come in but told you he wasn't going to pay for the first day? Or he wants you to come in but didn't tell you at all? Or?...

Either way, I don't really think it would be acting like a pushover if you need the job, but if he told you come in and is going to be like "surprise I'm not paying you" then that's a decent problem.


It's going to be hard for anyone to tell you over the internet if hes yanking your chain or actually does want to spend time making the decision to hire someone(you.) I'd say it all comes down to how bad you need a job.

[Loretta]

The paragraph about him saying whether he is going to pay you or not is a bit confusing. He wants you to come in but told you he wasn't going to pay for the first day? Or he wants you to come in but didn't tell you at all? Or?...

Either way, I don't really think it would be acting like a pushover if you need the job, but if he told you come in and is going to be like "surprise I'm not paying you" then that's a decent problem.


It's going to be hard for anyone to tell you over the internet if hes yanking your chain or actually does want to spend time making the decision to hire someone(you.) I'd say it all comes down to how bad you need a job.

He at first didn't tell me if he was paying me or not for my time tomorrow. I didnt' think at the time to ask because I assumed (never assume!! the first rule!) - I kinda just figured he would pay me for it, but I decided to call back and ask and he said. No, he will pay me if he decides after tomorrow to keep me on, which kinda makes me feel alittle annoyed, its only a days pay -

This goes both ways, but so far all I have experienced from this business owner is that his uncanny ability at indecision.

Appreciate your take too :)... I might need to run a few miles to get this off my chest before bed and before deciding if I bite the bullet and yet again compromise my dignity for the almighty dollar. I've got some savings so I could go for a few months while I continue looking, thats my other option -

The temp-agency I've been freelancing for has me in transition now for my next job and hasn't found anything for me in about a week, so its got me a little nervous too.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Consider it a site interview with the people you will be working with/for to see if it is a fit. You're leaving out the part where you get to see if you actually WANT to work there without having to make a commitment to him first.

It's one day. In this economy, some people would bite the bullet a lot harder than that just to have a job. :)

[Hasbinbad]

^/agree

Give it your best and if it doesn't work out, write it off to experience!

[Chewybunny]

As someone who's worked freelancing as a 3D artist you get ripped off a lot.

This is exactly what the guy is trying to do, rip you off.

No pro-bono

No free work

You have to, HAVE TO stick to that rule, don'te let it slip even once

[Pyrocat]

As someone who's worked freelancing as a 3D artist you get ripped off a lot.

This is exactly what the guy is trying to do, rip you off.

No pro-bono

No free work

You have to, HAVE TO stick to that rule, don'te let it slip even once

Confirm.

[Hasbinbad]

As someone who's worked freelancing as a 3D artist you get ripped off a lot.

This is exactly what the guy is trying to do, rip you off.

No pro-bono

No free work

You have to, HAVE TO stick to that rule, don'te let it slip even once
I don't think she is saying that the dude is actually asking her to work for free, sounds more like seeing if they gel as a team?

I dunno. Seems like one day isn't so bad to get your foot in the door?

Listen to the vets over me tho, I've only ever done graphics for free or based on a specific commission.

[Chewybunny]

Experience is wonderful, yes.

However, a lot of times these guys will play you foul. And you'd think you are getting exp out of it which isn't the mentality you should have. Plus, is professional, he would pay her, no matter what. Otherwise he isn't testing her, just getting free labor. And that usually means poor business anyway, nothing you'd like to jott down on your resume for.

[YendorLootmonkey]

To everyone saying he's getting "free labor" or making her "work for free", from her original post:

"I can come tomorrow to observe while receiving some training"

Nowhere did she mention he expected her to do any graphic design work or anything. She is just coming in to observe and receive training. She can use that opportunity to decide if she likes the work and the people she's working with. If she is asked to do work, she can refuse at that point and remind them she's only there to observe per his original expectations for her. If they give her crap at that point, THEN she can choose to leave out of fear of being used. Until then, she has a great opportunity to see what the work is like and make her own decision about whether she would want to work there.

[Omnimorph]

Well, I'd say go in, just to observe if for nothing else.

Keep in mind this is from someone who works in an office at the same level as a bunch of other people, and because i have programming experience i blatantly get asked to do things that aren't in my remit according to my job description. I get taken advantage of, and at first i just chalked it up to the old "hey, i'm getting experience here...", but after a while that becomes just an excuse.

Now i don't do anything extra for the company. :p

[Lill-Leif]

If I was desperate for a job I would probably go through the day without getting paid.
But since I ain't.. I would refuse :)

[Onadan]

He might be trying to take advantage of the economic climate. I definitely wouldn't do any work for them or offer up any creative insight. Also, I'm a firm believer in time is money. If they want your time, they should pay you.

[MrB]

Training on what?

if it is proper training then it could be useful if you haven't worked at that kind of place but wanted to.

As long as you are benefiting from training and not giving them free work, I would go.

if there was not a job at the end of it or I thought the owner was messing me around i would not go.

[YendorLootmonkey]

When I got this job I'm currently at 8 years ago, I had a series of interviews at the corporate office (which took all day), followed by a site visit the next day to the actual facility I was going to be working at to do something similar to what she is being asked to do... observe what goes on, sit-in and receive some training, interact with my potential co-workers, etc.

I didn't consider it "work without pay". I didn't do any work. They were evaluating my fit with my co-workers and the team just as much as I was evaluating whether I wanted to work there or had any interest in doing the job I was observing. The point was... I wanted a job, and it was worth my time to pursue it.

Everyone is just automatically speculating this guy is trying to get work out of people for free for some reason. Well, here's the other side of that speculation: Maybe the guy that is hiring her had a bad experience with a bad "culture fit" at his shop, or he keeps losing people because they didn't quite know what they were getting into when he hired them, and now finds it important to bring someone in for a site visit so everyone can do some mutual evaluation.

As a manager, I would love to have the opportunity to a) make sure my co-workers will get along with a potential new hire before I make the decision to hire, and b) make sure the potential new hire is fully aware of what they are getting themeselves into by spending a day observing before I hire them, potentially lose the other applicants, and then that person decides a week later they hate the place and it's not for them. Especially if I have been burned in the past by either of the two scenarios.

[Loretta]

Thanx for the advice everyone! - I decided to not go with the work for free concept because he should of been able to make a decision after a 2.5 hour interview, where I showed my portfolio and what I was capable of, which leads me to believe he is a very strange employer and likely just wanted a days work out of me with no obligations.

If he then didn't like my work or we didn't mesh after a day or two he could always just fire me at that point and so what, he would of invested a little $ while I would of invested my time - My time is worth something and any professional employer realizes this of their employee's. I doubt I would want to even work there if he offered me a job at this point.

[Dantes]

Yeah, or he could have contracted you on a job or two instead of immediately doing a full time hire. Most legitimate agencies will contract with a person if they aren't 100% sure they want to hire them. Sounds pretty shady, it's a good thing you didn't go for it.

Nothing is free, unless you are helping out a non-profit for a good cause. :)

[YendorLootmonkey]

If he then didn't like my work or we didn't mesh after a day or two he could always just fire me at that point and so what, he would of invested a little $

Uh, depending on your state, then he would be on the hook to pay out unemployment... so it may not have been as trivial for him as you suspect.

[Loretta]

In new york you have to make a certain amount of hours/$ over the course of 2 quarters in the year... so I think unless hes super paranoid that i'd sue him for discrimination or something else, and isnt really applying in this case. We're talkin about one day here.

[magic]

I've got a job for you.. RIGHT HERE