Raid Petitions / GM CS

[Metallikus]

This is a friendly reminder to the GMs that can answer raid petitions and have the power to act upon a decision. Since there are several raid petitions made that have not seen an answer in several months, would like to remind you guys there are many upset individuals concerned here. We are good people, we wait patiently for your decisions and have provided all the evidence required to move the petition along. We feel slighted and ignored (for months) that the riff raff of the server get over on all of us with impunity. Please for the love, answer the petitions.
Thanks.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Can't stay clean in a mud fight..


if the gm's wont do anything just have to get internet justice...

let the train wars commence.

[Lazortag]

My reimbursement from september still hasn't been granted. Why should a recent raid petition get priority?

[nalkin]

My reimbursement from september still hasn't been granted. Why should a recent raid petition get priority?

l2read

[Flunklesnarkin]

Perhaps there's a lesson in this for the "riff raff."

When swearing, throwing tantrums, rules lawyering, training, disrespecting staff, kill-stealing, screenshot spamming, photoshopping, posting fake logs, creating 78-page forum threads, and lying don't work, there is nothing left to fall back on but what should be done in the first place if a petition response is desired: a polite request.

we all know civility works on the interwebs >_>


nobody ever thought to ask others to be nice... if only people had tried that xD


A+ post.. would read again.

[Maze513]

Amelinda said it best " If you dont like our decisions, Then dont petition"
if that dosnt sum it up for you, Welll Im afraid its gonna be a long hard road on P99

p.s. Unless you wanna be a Unicorn, guides will get right on that one

[Nlaar]

Amelinda said it best " If you dont like our decisions, Then dont petition"
if that dosnt sum it up for you, Welll Im afraid its gonna be a long hard road on P99

p.s. Unless you wanna be a Unicorn, guides will get right on that one

Unfortunately we don't even know what the "decisions" are as the posted petitions have no responses. A lot of us would at least like a "petition denied" post.

[Alkorin]

we all know civility works on the interwebs >_>

Civility works just fine on the interwebs. The problem on this server (and else-webs) is the culture of entitlement that leads people to think they can get away with <whatever>.

[LordFresh]

Civility works just fine on the interwebs. The problem on this server (and else-webs) is the culture of entitlement that leads people to think they can get away with <whatever>.

See the GMs answer petitions then you get retards (tmo member or officer) swearing at them in public channels in front of everyone. Then you come here and complain that nobody is answering your petitions. Maybe if you guys werent acting like asshats all would be fine.

(See post in R&F with fazlazen)

[Alkorin]

Yes, my guild is as guilty as any other, but we're not alone. Don't be that finger-pointing guy, or you're part of the problem.

[bluejam]

Unfortunately we don't even know what the "decisions" are as the posted petitions have no responses. A lot of us would at least like a "petition denied" post.
Too much to ask. Please move along.

[canker]

See the GMs answer petitions then you get retards (tmo member or officer) swearing at them in public channels in front of everyone. Then you come here and complain that nobody is answering your petitions. Maybe if you guys werent acting like asshats all would be fine.

(See post in R&F with fazlazen)

alkorin was merely commenting on a post about internet civility. the OP complaining about petitions is a VD member.

[Zapatos]

Bump for importance!

I can understand how being left in the dark on so many petitions can be frustrating. Whereas a 'petition denied' just says you didn't have enough evidence or you were flat out wrong and move along, leaving it ignored can make one or one's guild feel ignored, confused and lead to a deeper frustration. That can evolve to a sense of lawless-ness that actually encourages people to play in the "KS or be KS'd" style that I think we may be starting to see.

(edit: even on a non-raid level, I've already had plenty of circumstances where groups or individual players would come and out-damage me on a mob I already had been killing just because it had something visible they wanted. The behavior trickles down when players think there are no consequences.)

As for the recent Innoruuk that [I think] resulted in this thread, it would be a pretty big letdown if there wasn't some sort of response to whoever put the petition in, given the circumstances of that encounter (and yet another server first at stake). But more than that, it's the... 3rd or 4th innoruuk that's been claimed to be KS'd/ninja looted/trained in the past couple months that hasn't been resolved (another one involved a server first epic too!). It's more symbolic than anything if these get or don't get addressed.

But that's just my 2cents. I appreciate all the volunteer work the gm's, devs and guides put into the server, as well as any time reading through my potentially badly written post!

[Fazlazen]

See the GMs answer petitions then you get retards (tmo member or officer) swearing at them in public channels in front of everyone. Then you come here and complain that nobody is answering your petitions. Maybe if you guys werent acting like asshats all would be fine.

(See post in R&F with fazlazen)

Am I on your mind ?

[Lishrac]

So if I put in a petition on the forums and I'm missing one little snippet of information because of a simple brain fart (we are human right?) then they will simply ignore my petition without letting me know what they're missing so that whatever it was can be fixed?

Add into this that the stickied post for what is required in a petition is rather...barebones? If you give me an exact list of what you want when dealing with certain circumstances I will provide it. If you give me a one sentence explanation that is open to a lot of interpretation I will probably not know that I'm missing information.

I really do enjoy this server and want to thank the Devs, GMs, Guides, and various other people in positions of power for all that they have done. But when you don't make yourself clear on what you want from us when we need your help then don't ignore or complain about how we ask for that help.

[Fazlazen]

So if I put in a petition on the forums and I'm missing one little snippet of information because of a simple brain fart (we are human right?) then they will simply ignore my petition without letting me know what they're missing so that whatever it was can be fixed?

Add into this that the stickied post for what is required in a petition is rather...barebones? If you give me an exact list of what you want when dealing with certain circumstances I will provide it. If you give me a one sentence explanation that is open to a lot of interpretation I will probably not know that I'm missing information.

I really do enjoy this server and want to thank the Devs, GMs, Guides, and various other people in positions of power for all that they have done. But when you don't make yourself clear on what you want from us when we need your help then don't ignore or complain about how we ask for that help.

No, they do answer petitions. If you have a problem, make a petition and I'm sure it will get answered quickly by the staff.

They are just tired of the endless amount of raiding petitions they get, where it is usually guild B and C complaning about guild A because they didn't get a mob. Guild B and C post a petition that gets no attention. This is what OP is talking about.

Last night for example, guild A pulled Innoruuk and was killing it. Guild B and C tried to fight the mob, but guild A got the xp anyways. OP is in guild B or in guild C. He posted a petition that will never get any attention.

I understand them though, when you raid with 90 people, you have alot of mouths to feed. You can't afford to loose too many times.

[Quizy]

See the GMs answer petitions then you get retards (tmo member or officer) swearing at them in public channels in front of everyone. Then you come here and complain that nobody is answering your petitions. Maybe if you guys werent acting like asshats all would be fine.

(See post in R&F with fazlazen)


Read the thread before you call out your raid partners lol

[YendorLootmonkey]

GMs/Guides would have less raid disputes to handle and less whining to deal with if, as non-classic as it is, the raid target zonewide shouted what player or whose pet, eyeball, wtfever got FTE (or go a step further and shout the guild tag of said player).

This could be reset upon disengage (i.e. someone tags mob then dies to a DT, breaking the chain of aggro when the mob returns to seek mode, then someone else tags the mob and there's another zonewide shout showing new FTE, rendering the previous FTE irrelevant.)

Then it would be indisputable who got the mob, and no GMs/Guides would need to be involved unless the guild who didn't get the zonewide shout got XP (therefore KS'd) and looted, resulting in a clear suspension/ban to be handed out.

[Lishrac]

No, they do answer petitions. If you have a problem, make a petition and I'm sure it will get answered quickly by the staff.

They are just tired of the endless amount of raiding petitions they get, where it is usually guild B and C complaning about guild A because they didn't get a mob. Guild B and C post a petition that gets no attention. This is what OP is talking about.

Last night for example, guild A pulled Innoruuk and was killing it. Guild B and C tried to fight the mob, but guild A got the xp anyways. OP is in guild B or in guild C. He posted a petition that will never get any attention.

I understand them though, when you raid with 90 people, you have alot of mouths to feed. You can't afford to loose too many times.

Thank you for the answer. Wasn't liking the thought of having to read somebodies mind on what exactly I needed to in certain situations.

[Seaweedpimp]

Ouch vd/ib lose ANOTHER inny?

[Kole1]

TMO/IB/VD and general CS would be improved by periodic full repops.(from the various IB/TMO members who I have spoken to, stealin, xanthias, etc, we all agree, and not just for personal gain)

Would decrease animosity, decrease RnF, decrease the need for GM CS-related intervention. Want this shitstorm to decrease? The powers that be have the power.

It would also be more classic.

It would also mean other guilds that are blocked by the raiding guilds, could raid things. No one would care about stuff that is _very_ fun to raid, but taken for granted because of 5-9 day spawns. Or varying degrees of incorrectly coded epic quest mobs.

IB and TMO and VD have a lot in common. At least most of them. We enjoy raids, competition, and are operating under a system where mobs are a lot more rare than they should be on live. Whether this is an attempt to extend the server's life, or was a response to poopsocking, civil discourse IS possible, were the landscape different.

Also this is not RnF. Slippery.

[sawin]

GMs/Guides would have less raid disputes to handle and less whining to deal with if, as non-classic as it is, the raid target zonewide shouted what player or whose pet, eyeball, wtfever got FTE (or go a step further and shout the guild tag of said player).

this sounds like a good idea to me; prove me wrong

[YendorLootmonkey]

this sounds like a good idea to me; prove me wrong

I can't think of a guildleader or guide/GM that would be against the raid encounter automatically giving us the one piece of information we need to police ourselves instead of having to bother staff to pull server logs to determine FTE.

[Autotune]

[Wed Feb 15 16:25:51 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:25:51 2012] A forsaken revenant pet hits Eye of Hokushin for 56 points of damage.
[Wed Feb 15 16:25:51 2012] Eye of Hokushin has been slain by a forsaken revenant pet!
[Wed Feb 15 16:25:54 2012] Jjlent looks tougher.
[Wed Feb 15 16:25:54 2012] Transience begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:25:58 2012] You are thirsty.
[Wed Feb 15 16:25:58 2012] You are hungry.
[Wed Feb 15 16:25:58 2012] You are out of food and drink.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:00 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:01 2012] Transience begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:02 2012] Zagum begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:02 2012] Eras steps into a mystic portal.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:03 2012] Necroma regains concentration and continues casting.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:03 2012] Tetragrammaton looks dead.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:03 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:03 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] ---------------------------
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Ingrid <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Cyryllis <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [60 Phantasmist] Zenorek (Gnome) <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Shamewow <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Zagum <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [54 Elementalist] Pennand (Gnome) <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Elethia <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Raxx <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Auelin <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Utalnayan <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kelendil <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Phisting <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [60 Grandmaster] Jjlent (Human) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Darkdeath <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Imgunna <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Stealin <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] There are 16 players in The Plane of Hate.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] Phisting tells the group, 'wanna try to bring it down? he bugged out last time'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:06 2012] Hokushin fades away.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:06 2012] Brollan's spell fizzles!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:07 2012] Jjlent says, 'Hail, Cyryllis'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:07 2012] Brollan begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:10 2012] Jjlent shines with a primal aura.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:10 2012] Darkdeath tells the group, 'lets try'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:13 2012] Cyryllis begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:14 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:15 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:15 2012] Transience begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:16 2012] Cyryllis has joined the group.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:17 2012] Zagum's image shimmers.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:17 2012] Transience's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:17 2012] Transience begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:18 2012] Zagum begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:18 2012] Tetragrammaton begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:18 2012] Lilyanna begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:19 2012] You tell your party, 'we have half our force at entrance don't we'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:19 2012] Phisting's body pulses with the spirit of the Shissar.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:19 2012] Zagum winces.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:19 2012] a forsaken revenant's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:20 2012] Olympia begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:20 2012] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:22 2012] Cyryllis begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:22 2012] Freddy fades away.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:22 2012] Tetragrammaton is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:22 2012] Zagum begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:23 2012] Shamewow says, 'LFG'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:23 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:24 2012] Zagum winces.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:24 2012] Phisting tells the group, 'of course'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:25 2012] Transience begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:26 2012] Auelin says, 'Hail'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:27 2012] Zagum begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:28 2012] Jjlent is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:28 2012] You feel protected from magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:28 2012] Imgunna is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:28 2012] Phisting is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:28 2012] Cyryllis is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:28 2012] Innoruuk shouts 'STRONGSAD'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:29 2012] Zagum winces.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:30 2012] Transience begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:30 2012] Drippin steps into a mystic portal.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:32 2012] Zagum begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:33 2012] Cyryllis begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:34 2012] Brollan begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:34 2012] Zagum winces.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:34 2012] Transience looks very tranquil.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:35 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:36 2012] Enorm begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:37 2012] Olympia begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:37 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:37 2012] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:37 2012] Zagum begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:39 2012] Jjlent's body pulses with the spirit of the Shissar.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:39 2012] Zagum winces.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:39 2012] Olympia's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:39 2012] a forsaken revenant's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:41 2012] Olympia begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:41 2012] Eras begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:42 2012] Darkdeath begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:42 2012] Auelin tells the guild, 'inny DTd'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:43 2012] Darkdeath dies.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:44 2012] You are thirsty.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:44 2012] You are hungry.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:44 2012] You are out of food and drink.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:45 2012] Eras looks very tranquil.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:46 2012] Xzerion begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:46 2012] Nlaar begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:47 2012] Olympia's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:47 2012] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:50 2012] Lilyanna begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:50 2012] Nlaar fades a little.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:51 2012] Shiftin says, 'Hail, Travaris's corpse'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:52 2012] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:52 2012] Enorm begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:53 2012] Cyryllis begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:53 2012] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:54 2012] Jeneker says 'At your service Master.'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:54 2012] Jeneker begins to radiate with an aura of Elemental Mastery.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:54 2012] Coldblooded begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:55 2012] Noobs tells the guild, 'who?'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:55 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:55 2012] Sussy's spell fizzles!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:55 2012] Coldblooded is enveloped by the Aegis of Ro.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:55 2012] Eras is enveloped by the Aegis of Ro.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:55 2012] Nlaar is enveloped by the Aegis of Ro.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:55 2012] Lilyanna is enveloped by the Aegis of Ro.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:57 2012] Cyryllis fades a little.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:57 2012] Innoruuk slashes Eye of Darkdeath for 400 points of damage.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:57 2012] Eye of Darkdeath has been slain by Innoruuk!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:58 2012] Sussy begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:58 2012] Shamewow tells the guild, 'any c2 in hate?'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:58 2012] Eras begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:59 2012] Nlaar fades away.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:59 2012] Lilyanna begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:00 2012] Jjlent tells the guild, 'people camped at zone in?'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:03 2012] Raxx tells the guild, '23VD 16IB'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:03 2012] an abhorrent says 'Hold still, this will only hurt for an eternity'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:03 2012] a forsaken revenant says 'Hssst. Foolish mortal! You can not kill the dead!'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:03 2012] a forsaken revenant says 'Your foul deeds have earned my contempt.'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:04 2012] Necroma begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:04 2012] Coldblooded is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:04 2012] Lilyanna is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:04 2012] Nlaar is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:04 2012] Eras is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:05 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:05 2012] Silentone tells the guild, 'anyone coming to OT?'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:05 2012] Brollan begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:07 2012] Darkdeath begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:08 2012] Darkdeath regains concentration and continues casting.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:08 2012] Darkdeath has been surrounded by the Quivering Veil of Xarn.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:08 2012] Enorm begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:08 2012] Jabobtik says 'At your service Master.'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:09 2012] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:10 2012] Sussy begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:10 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:11 2012] Pennand begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:12 2012] a loathling lich's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:13 2012] Necroma's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:15 2012] Transience begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:15 2012] Innoruuk slashes Olympia for 273 points of damage.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:16 2012] Pennand fades away.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:16 2012] Sussy's feet leave the ground.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:16 2012] Innoruuk slashes Olympia for 100 points of damage.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:16 2012] Innoruuk slashes Olympia for 178 points of damage.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:17 2012] Innoruuk shouts 'OLYMPIA'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:17 2012] Olympia has been slain by Innoruuk!



Some things to note.

1) The time between Inny's DT and when DD's eye was personally killed by Inny himself.

2) Hokushin (who I was told by a VD had FTE) Had an eye die well before Strongsad took the DT. If he had any aggro on Inny, he would have been DT'd. His eye clearly dies to a rev's pet.

3) Inny goes for Oly after he already started down the ramp for the entrance. (mallet dump)

The ones who tried to KS, were you, not us. You can keep thinking those raid leaders are being honest if you want. They are lying. Get pissed at me, send me tells stating so, I don't care and it just makes you sound like sheep.

Everyone who ran logs, who were at the ramp "safe house", will have this on their logs (-guildchat /commands). If they tell you that they don't have it, they are lying, I was at the very back of the safehouse, furthest from inny's spawn and still picked it up. I know a few others who have it as well.

4) don't tell me that we managed to out aggro Inny with a fucking eye. Hilarious as that is, it's beyond stupid.

[YendorLootmonkey]

[Wed Feb 15 16:26:03 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] ---------------------------
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Ingrid <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Cyryllis <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [60 Phantasmist] Zenorek (Gnome) <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Shamewow <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Zagum <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [54 Elementalist] Pennand (Gnome) <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Elethia <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Raxx <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Auelin <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Utalnayan <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kelendil <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Phisting <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [60 Grandmaster] Jjlent (Human) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Darkdeath <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Imgunna <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Stealin <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] There are 16 players in The Plane of Hate.



[Wed Feb 15 16:26:19 2012] You tell your party, 'we have half our force at entrance don't we'



Sounds more like you're trying to slyly tag Inny for FTE since you only have 8 people at him, using the VD/IB force to do your work for you. Or are we saying 8 people can take down Inny on their own and manage the mobs in his room simultaneously? Hard to believe, but okay.

If there were a hypothetical zonewide shout stating that TMO had FTE, like what should be implemented, then we would have camped out and left Inny and the rest of the mobs for your 8 guys on 2nd floor to deal with while the other half of your raid force was scrambling to get to you.

[Autotune]

Sounds more like you're trying to slyly tag Inny for FTE since you only have 8 people at him, using the VD/IB force to do your work for you. Or are we saying 8 people can take down Inny on their own and manage the mobs in his room simultaneously? Hard to believe, but okay.

yeah, because we control what you guys do. It's not our fault you decided to engage him before we ported up our people to the entrance.

It's no different than the many times fay was pulled to an empty camp and killed Or talendor being pulled to an empty camp.


Keep trying to excuse your KS attempt.


If there were a hypothetical zonewide shout stating that TMO had FTE, like what should be implemented, then we would have camped out and left Inny and the rest of the mobs for your 8 guys on 2nd floor to deal with while the other half of your raid force was scrambling to get to you.

Or you could have easily realized that none of you pulled inny, therefore having tanks jump on him was idiotic and was a KS attempt to prevent inny from getting to entrance where we were porting up people.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I'm just making the case for implementation of a zonewide FTE announcement, instead of people relying on the confusion of "who got FTE? can't risk it being us and not kill the mob... attack! okay, let the GM sort it out!" all the time.

[Kole1]

the FTE problem is advantageous to whichever guild rule lawyers it to snake a FTE and let the other guild do their work for them.It will never change as long as spawns are contested. It could have just not been tagged out if there was a question to who was made the train.

You can spin this however you want "u mad", "lose another inny"? "obviously the only conclusion is you tried to KS".....because that helps intelligent discussion of a problem.

Or we could post a "u mad about not getting VS the past 2 weeks"?

The reason no one cares to address this stuff is because you all seem to think people can only interpret things the way you see them. ,You are here posting logs that are meaningless to 99% of the people who read this forum, to prove something to 4 people. stop putting this shit in here, you wasting everyone's time.

p.s. gratz darkdeath and stealin on epic pieces

[Autotune]

the FTE problem is advantageous to whichever guild rule lawyers it to snake a FTE and let the other guild do their work for them.It will never change as long as spawns are contested. It could have just not been tagged out if there was a question to who was made the train.

You can spin this however you want "u mad", "lose another inny"? "obviously the only conclusion is you tried to KS".....because that helps intelligent discussion of a problem.

Or we could post a "u mad about not getting VS the past 2 weeks"?

The reason no one cares to address this stuff is because you all seem to think people can only interpret things the way you see them. ,You are here posting logs that are meaningless to 99% of the people who read this forum, to prove something to 4 people. stop putting this shit in here, you wasting everyone's time.

p.s. gratz darkdeath and stealin on epic pieces

I only posted it, because it seemed a few people thought there was a problem. There was no problem with the last inny imo. I posted the logs for them, not to try and snag a response from a dev/gm that will not respond to this reincarnation of a thread that has been posted 10x before.

[Kole1]

i meant more like wasting my time because i looked through them. i was mad. I expected guildchat

[Metallikus]

[Wed Feb 15 16:25:51 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:25:51 2012] A forsaken revenant pet hits Eye of Hokushin for 56 points of damage.
[Wed Feb 15 16:25:51 2012] Eye of Hokushin has been slain by a forsaken revenant pet!
[Wed Feb 15 16:25:54 2012] Jjlent looks tougher.
[Wed Feb 15 16:25:54 2012] Transience begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:25:58 2012] You are thirsty.
[Wed Feb 15 16:25:58 2012] You are hungry.
[Wed Feb 15 16:25:58 2012] You are out of food and drink.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:00 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:01 2012] Transience begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:02 2012] Zagum begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:02 2012] Eras steps into a mystic portal.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:03 2012] Necroma regains concentration and continues casting.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:03 2012] Tetragrammaton looks dead.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:03 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:03 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] ---------------------------
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Ingrid <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Cyryllis <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [60 Phantasmist] Zenorek (Gnome) <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Shamewow <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Zagum <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [54 Elementalist] Pennand (Gnome) <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Elethia <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Raxx <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Auelin <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Utalnayan <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Kelendil <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Phisting <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [60 Grandmaster] Jjlent (Human) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Darkdeath <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Imgunna <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Stealin <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] There are 16 players in The Plane of Hate.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:04 2012] Phisting tells the group, 'wanna try to bring it down? he bugged out last time'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:06 2012] Hokushin fades away.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:06 2012] Brollan's spell fizzles!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:07 2012] Jjlent says, 'Hail, Cyryllis'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:07 2012] Brollan begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:10 2012] Jjlent shines with a primal aura.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:10 2012] ]Darkdeath tells the group, 'lets try'[/COLOR]
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:13 2012] Cyryllis begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:14 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:15 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:15 2012] Transience begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:16 2012] Cyryllis has joined the group.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:17 2012] Zagum's image shimmers.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:17 2012] Transience's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:17 2012] Transience begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:18 2012] Zagum begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:18 2012] Tetragrammaton begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:18 2012] Lilyanna begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:19 2012] You tell your party, 'we have half our force at entrance don't we'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:19 2012] Phisting's body pulses with the spirit of the Shissar.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:19 2012] Zagum winces.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:19 2012] a forsaken revenant's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:20 2012] Olympia begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:20 2012] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:22 2012] Cyryllis begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:22 2012] Freddy fades away.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:22 2012] Tetragrammaton is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:22 2012] Zagum begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:23 2012] Shamewow says, 'LFG'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:23 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:24 2012] Zagum winces.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:24 2012] Phisting tells the group, 'of course'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:25 2012] Transience begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:26 2012] Auelin says, 'Hail'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:27 2012] Zagum begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:28 2012] Jjlent is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:28 2012] You feel protected from magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:28 2012] Imgunna is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:28 2012] Phisting is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:28 2012] Cyryllis is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:28 2012] Innoruuk shouts 'STRONGSAD'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:29 2012] Zagum winces.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:30 2012] Transience begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:30 2012] Drippin steps into a mystic portal.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:32 2012] Zagum begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:33 2012] Cyryllis begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:34 2012] Brollan begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:34 2012] Zagum winces.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:34 2012] Transience looks very tranquil.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:35 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:36 2012] Enorm begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:37 2012] Olympia begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:37 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:37 2012] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:37 2012] Zagum begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:39 2012] Jjlent's body pulses with the spirit of the Shissar.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:39 2012] Zagum winces.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:39 2012] Olympia's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:39 2012] a forsaken revenant's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:41 2012] Olympia begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:41 2012] Eras begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:42 2012] Darkdeath begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:42 2012] Auelin tells the guild, 'inny DTd'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:43 2012] Darkdeath dies.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:44 2012] You are thirsty.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:44 2012] You are hungry.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:44 2012] You are out of food and drink.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:45 2012] Eras looks very tranquil.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:46 2012] Xzerion begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:46 2012] Nlaar begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:47 2012] Olympia's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:47 2012] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:50 2012] Lilyanna begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:50 2012] Nlaar fades a little.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:51 2012] Shiftin says, 'Hail, Travaris's corpse'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:52 2012] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:52 2012] Enorm begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:53 2012] Cyryllis begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:53 2012] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:54 2012] Jeneker says 'At your service Master.'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:54 2012] Jeneker begins to radiate with an aura of Elemental Mastery.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:54 2012] Coldblooded begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:55 2012] Noobs tells the guild, 'who?'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:55 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:55 2012] Sussy's spell fizzles!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:55 2012] Coldblooded is enveloped by the Aegis of Ro.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:55 2012] Eras is enveloped by the Aegis of Ro.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:55 2012] Nlaar is enveloped by the Aegis of Ro.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:55 2012] Lilyanna is enveloped by the Aegis of Ro.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:57 2012] Cyryllis fades a little.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:57 2012] Innoruuk slashes Eye of Darkdeath for 400 points of damage.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:57 2012] Eye of Darkdeath has been slain by Innoruuk!
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:58 2012] Sussy begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:58 2012] Shamewow tells the guild, 'any c2 in hate?'
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:58 2012] Eras begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:59 2012] Nlaar fades away.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:59 2012] Lilyanna begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:00 2012] Jjlent tells the guild, 'people camped at zone in?'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:03 2012] Raxx tells the guild, '23VD 16IB'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:03 2012] an abhorrent says 'Hold still, this will only hurt for an eternity'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:03 2012] a forsaken revenant says 'Hssst. Foolish mortal! You can not kill the dead!'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:03 2012] a forsaken revenant says 'Your foul deeds have earned my contempt.'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:04 2012] Necroma begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:04 2012] Coldblooded is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:04 2012] Lilyanna is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:04 2012] Nlaar is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:04 2012] Eras is resistant to magic.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:05 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:05 2012] Silentone tells the guild, 'anyone coming to OT?'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:05 2012] Brollan begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:07 2012] Darkdeath begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:08 2012] Darkdeath regains concentration and continues casting.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:08 2012] Darkdeath has been surrounded by the Quivering Veil of Xarn.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:08 2012] Enorm begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:08 2012] Jabobtik says 'At your service Master.'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:09 2012] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:10 2012] Sussy begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:10 2012] a forsaken revenant begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:11 2012] Pennand begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:12 2012] a loathling lich's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:13 2012] Necroma's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:15 2012] Transience begins to cast a spell.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:15 2012] Innoruuk slashes Olympia for 273 points of damage.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:16 2012] Pennand fades away.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:16 2012] Sussy's feet leave the ground.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:16 2012] Innoruuk slashes Olympia for 100 points of damage.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:16 2012] Innoruuk slashes Olympia for 178 points of damage.
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:17 2012] Innoruuk shouts 'OLYMPIA'
[Wed Feb 15 16:27:17 2012] Olympia has been slain by Innoruuk!



Some things to note.

1) The time between Inny's DT and when DD's eye was personally killed by Inny himself.

2) Hokushin (who I was told by a VD had FTE) Had an eye die well before Strongsad took the DT. If he had any aggro on Inny, he would have been DT'd. His eye clearly dies to a rev's pet.

3) Inny goes for Oly after he already started down the ramp for the entrance. (mallet dump)

The ones who tried to KS, were you, not us. You can keep thinking those raid leaders are being honest if you want. They are lying. Get pissed at me, send me tells stating so, I don't care and it just makes you sound like sheep.

Everyone who ran logs, who were at the ramp "safe house", will have this on their logs (-guildchat /commands). If they tell you that they don't have it, they are lying, I was at the very back of the safehouse, furthest from inny's spawn and still picked it up. I know a few others who have it as well.

4) don't tell me that we managed to out aggro Inny with a fucking eye. Hilarious as that is, it's beyond stupid.



better things to note:

TMO talking in group chat on how to bug out Inny and exploit rather than fight the encounters as intended.


Darkdeath being Feigned death when his eyeball was killed.

Hokushin's agro was still at top of list FTE after the DT

[Autotune]

better things to note:

TMO talking in group chat on how to bug out Inny and exploit rather than fight the encounters as intended.


Darkdeath being Feigned death when his eyeball was killed.

Hokushin's agro was still at top of list FTE after the DT

lol, he bugged out, not in a good way. I suppose you wouldn't understand what he is talking about. The, "let's try" is to get him to come straight down to entrance and not "bug out" where he path's like a retard at the top of the ramp.

The part where DD fd's proves your even more of an idiot. I'll let your guild catch you up on game mechanics tho.

[john_savage1982]

Everybody knows GMs are biased. Don't like it? Don't play. They don't care either way.

[Versus]

Just want to point this out....

He FD'd...then later he got agro....whos to say he didnt stand up between that time? o.O

[YendorLootmonkey]

The part where DD fd's proves your even more of an idiot. I'll let your guild catch you up on game mechanics tho.

Here's all I can find:

http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-8629.html

Now if, once you cast the spell you then immediately FD, when the eye dies you will be just as though you had FD’d after throwing a weapon at the mob (ie, indifferent). The mob will NOT come for you as long as you stay FD

All your logs show is that Darkdeath is FD before his eye is attacked and killed by Inny. Assuming the above quote is how the mechanics work (sorry, i don't play a FD class or use stalking probes, so please school me), then Darkdeath never had aggro once his eye died. The next aggro in your logs is shown to be Olympia.

So, would rather wait for the GMs to pull the encounter log on this.

[Autotune]

Here's all I can find:

http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-8629.html



All your logs show is that Darkdeath is FD before his eye is attacked and killed by Inny. Assuming the above quote is how the mechanics work (sorry, i don't play a FD class or use stalking probes, so please school me), then Darkdeath never had aggro once his eye died. The next aggro in your logs is shown to be Olympia.

So, would rather wait for the GMs to pull the encounter log on this.

yeah, DD never had aggro, his eye just happened to get killed mysteriously.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Just want to point this out....

He FD'd...then later he got agro....whos to say he didnt stand up between that time? o.O

So, just to recap, your entire claim to FTE is based on speculation that Darkdeath stood up before his eye died to retain aggro, which chat/combat logs aren't going to show us?

[Metallikus]

besides yesterdays fiascal, how bout the time that Amelinda shouted we had FTE, but your guild KS'd Inny anyways and kept the loot.

Why would that petition go unanswered for months ?

These specifics could go on and on. My problem is why won't the GMs answer the petitions and do something?

[YendorLootmonkey]

yeah, DD never had aggro, his eye just happened to get killed mysteriously.

Now if, once you cast the spell you then immediately FD, when the eye dies you will be just as though you had FD’d after throwing a weapon at the mob (ie, indifferent). The mob will NOT come for you as long as you stay FD

[Autotune]

So, just to recap, your entire claim to FTE is based on speculation that Darkdeath stood up before his eye died to retain aggro, which chat/combat logs aren't going to show us?

quoting this for the lulz.

[Mcbard]

If you GMs need any player logs or screenshots/videos to help you figure out some of these things feel free to send me a message and I will provide you with what I can if I was around for it (january you're pretty out of luck! :P ).

Other than that, keep fighting the good fight, and thank you for donating your time!

[YendorLootmonkey]

quoting this for the lulz.

I'm just saying your log you posted doesn't prove FTE like you think it does, from what I understand:

1) Darkdeath is shown FD before his eye is killed by Inny.

2) Based on the mechanics quoted above, the mob cons indifferent if the eye dies while you are FD, therefore NOT aggro.

3) Your log is not able to show Darkdeath standing up before his eye dies to retain aggro.

As for who actually had FTE, I cannot tell from that log that you posted as verifiable proof.

[Autotune]

I'm just saying your log you posted doesn't prove FTE like you think it does, from what I understand:

1) Darkdeath is shown FD before his eye is killed by Inny.

2) Based on the mechanics quoted above, the mob cons indifferent if the eye dies while you are FD, therefore NOT aggro.

3) Your log is not able to show Darkdeath standing up before his eye dies to retain aggro.

As for who actually had FTE, I cannot tell from that log that you posted as verifiable proof.

lol

[YendorLootmonkey]

lol

Please, enlighten me. Instead of explaining where I am wrong, all you're doing is "lulz" this and "lol" that. School me, oh great one, on how your log shows FTE by Darkdeath in light of what I've posted. I've already claimed to not play a FD class or use stalker probes.

[Daliant17447]

Nothing will agro an eye while the player is FD.

[Wed Feb 15 16:26:57 2012] Innoruuk slashes Eye of Darkdeath for 400 points of damage.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:57 2012] Eye of Darkdeath has been slain by Innoruuk!

Those logs are proof that he did in fact stand up, after moving his eye to Innoruuk

[Autotune]

Please, enlighten me. Instead of explaining where I am wrong, all you're doing is "lulz" this and "lol" that. School me, oh great one, on how your log shows FTE by Darkdeath in light of what I've posted. I've already claimed to not play a FD class or use stalker probes.

what fun is there in that. You have an entire guild (actually 2) that could explain this phenomenon to you.

Edit: Daliant, :(

[YendorLootmonkey]

Nothing will agro an eye while the player is FD.

[Wed Feb 15 16:26:57 2012] Innoruuk slashes Eye of Darkdeath for 400 points of damage.
[Wed Feb 15 16:26:57 2012] Eye of Darkdeath has been slain by Innoruuk!

Those logs are proof that he did in fact stand up, after moving his eye to Innoruuk

Okay, fair enough... then the mechanic I posted from the monkly business site does not work in the same way here. It seemed to imply that you could get the eye killed while remaining FD.

[Bruman]

"Hey guys, lets continue to bicker and argue over old ass shit, just like we have every fucking day for the past year or more"

GG

[dozens12]

Wow this train got stopped right in its tracks. Maybe control your pet and it would cause less trouble for the queen amelinda ?

http://i.imgur.com/3t2zS.jpg

[Amelinda]

Everybody knows GMs are biased. Don't like it? Don't play. They don't care either way.

Actually we are all very unbiased. The only people who even look at raid petitions are Rogean and myself and neither he nor i care whcih pixels go where.

Ambrotos & Gratis are both excellent guides who do not handle raid level petitions but have been nothing but fair in answering all other petitions that i've seen.

SO to say that the staff is Biased is...I think....unfair.

"Hey guys, lets continue to bicker and argue over old ass shit, just like we have every fucking day for the past year or more"

GG

This is true.

Not gonna address the most recent Inny in detail because i'll do that in the petition section and have already done it in detail with the IB folks who petitioned. Here is the top 5 for the encounter log:

http://pastebin.com/PCjauCe8

TMO had FTE with darkdeath's eye and darkdeath. Darkdeath was engaged for the entire fight (73 seconds).

Unfortunately I wasn't there so didn't see any shenanigans.

To the OP/ On to the MEAT of the post:

The simple fact of the matter is that there are really only 3 individuals who are empowered to make raid decisions. Nilbog, Rogean and myself.

I can definitely sympathize and understand your frustrations. However, do please realize that all 3 of us have real lives and stuff happens in those real lives.

People get sick. People have real life emergencies. I do understand that you get aggravated not hearing anything. But realize that it is rare for me to stand up and announce things publically.

I actually intended to do something about a few of the raid petitions a few weeks ago but have been dealing with being ill and then my father had emergency surgery. I see my logs and realize i miss tons and tons of tells because i leave my characters on pretty much non-stop.

I realize I could have been more communicative and I apologize for that. The best explanation that I can give you is that my plate and hands have been pretty full lately. Just when i think things have settled down and I can get to the raid petitions something else explodes in my face. (Which is not your fault or issue but it does affect you and for that I am sorry)

Let's place responsibility where it is due though:

ALL parties involved need to be more responsible about their own actions and need to behave more in the way they would like to be treated than "what will the rules let me get away with"

The intentional training bullshit needs to stop (Do I really need to name names? I can. and i'm sure we'd all have a big laugh) (KNOWING that you are a big ole trainer and being able to prove it are two different things. Unfortunately)

The poopsock race makes shit 10x more difficult than it has to be. I hope you realize that.
The intentional griefing of each other in all aspects is just ridiculous. can't tell you how many times i get petitions from all sides that aren't petitioning individuals. "TMO just took my pawbuster" "IB Is here ksing me in Droga" "VD is trying to steal my AC Spawn" "BDA is stealing my Fungus king camp" "Divinity is here boxing"

Whenever i see those petitions or get those sorts of tells I shake my head and just want to respond and be a smarty pants. "Really? so one person is boxing an entire guild?" "TMO is raiding paw buster now? IB raiding droga? VD having mass OOT raid!! Film at 11!!"

It's a vicious nasty cycle. People are blaming entire guilds for the douchey actions of a few people. Then they are turning around and perpetuating the douchebaggery by griefing and dicking over other, unrelated (except by guild tag) people at other points outside of raid situations. That then causes THOSE people to be angry at you and they retaliate. Then you have to 1 up them and it just keeps perpetuating itself. All very 3rd grade bully crap. AND ALL SIDES ARE BULLYING.

If people would grow up and let things go then there wouldn't be quite so much douchebaggery floating around the server :P

anyway. enough of my commentary. Do expect to see action taken in the coming days.

The days of thinking you can get by with shit are over.

[Bruman]

ALL parties involved need to be more responsible about their own actions and need to behave more in the way they would like to be treated than "what will the rules let me get away with"

...snip...

It's a vicious nasty cycle. People are blaming entire guilds for the douchey actions of a few people.

...snip...

If people would grow up and let things go then there wouldn't be quite so much douchebaggery floating around the server :P

I think I've been saying the same stuff for a while now myself. Noone really cares, the only thing that matters is their pixels. They'll continue to be grown man-children until the server dies.

I don't know why the GMs bother anymore, and I'm amazed you guys still try. More power to you - I would've thrown in the towel by this point (in response to the raid stuff that is, I'd continue helping the rest of the server).

I've long wondered what the GMs could do to end it. If you guys just stopped paying attention altogether, it'd turn into a griefing trainfest (even more-so than it is currently). If you just started banning both involved parties, then opposing guilds would intentionally start things even if they were clearly no able to handle a mob (in a "if I can't get it, noone can" move). The only thing I can think of that'd work would be to get rid of variance, and introduce a GM enforced rotation. If mob isn't down by X time, then it's FFA, and whoever has the KS group wins.

[falkun]

Bruman, I cannot agree with you that its all about pixels. I'm a bard, besides an instrument*, I don't need raid loot. I enjoy the chase, the kill, the game of it.

We all know the best game is a fair game. For instance, the NFL with salary caps is much better than MLB with lol-salary caps. The game as a whole is better due to being "more fair". So its sad to see "the other team" win via less-than-fair tactics. For all the times "the other team" has outmobilized "my team", pulled faster, pulled cleaner, whatever, I congratulate them. It provides me a reason to hone my own skills so that I may rise to the challenge. For all the times the "other team" has purposely trained "my team", KSed, or whatever, the game has become less fun. Likewise, for any times "my team" has purposely trained, KSed, or whatever, I feel the reputation of "my team" has been tarnished with respect to the game, disregarding the reputation of the "other team" the action was done to.

* Note: Even instrument upgrades are marginal, cheap ass instruments offer 80+% of the effectiveness of their more powerful brethren for much less effort. Also, if you want to make the dragon scales argument for epics, remember that Trak guts aren't dropping yet, so that point is moot.

[Bruman]

Bruman, I cannot agree with you that its all about pixels. I'm a bard, besides an instrument*, I don't need raid loot. I enjoy the chase, the kill, the game of it.

Maybe for you, but that's still not the majority's case. I don't disagree that many people enjoy it for the race, but if that was the real case, then the GMs wouldn't be busy. People don't petition to the GMs over "they killed our mob", it's "they kill our mob and we want the loot".

At the end of the day, if it wasn't just about the loot, then the GM petitions would be almost nil. The mob would die, then the loot would rot.

It's about pixels.

[arsenalpow]

The intentional griefing of each other in all aspects is just ridiculous. can't tell you how many times i get petitions from all sides that aren't petitioning individuals. "TMO just took my pawbuster" "IB Is here ksing me in Droga" "VD is trying to steal my AC Spawn" "BDA is stealing my Fungus king camp" "Divinity is here boxing"

Usually, it's more along the lines of "we were at king with two people and wiped/gated/AfkForLattes and now BDA is moving into the camp and we want it back"

Just saying. /derail

[Zapatos]

The response is much appreciated, Amelinda!

[Splorf22]

Thanks for answering Amelinda.

I know I had this chat with you earlier and that there are some problems with the idea, but I really think we need to implement something where the raid mob shouts to the zone when he gets aggro, and when he's cleared. It's not perfect. It doesn't control kiting or things like that (I guess TMO intended to port back to the zone in, have darkdeath FD/hide/stand up to single pull inny there?) but at least its a huge step in the right direction. The problem we have right now is that encounters are judged on a metric we as players cannot observe.

Also I did a thread earlier and the overwhelming support was for some random server reboots every few weeks. Its 100% classic, adds a few more items to the game, and plus server reboot days are the most fun ever. Legit bragging rights imo.

[Nlaar]

The response is much appreciated, Amelinda!

[Lazortag]

Also I did a thread earlier and the overwhelming support was for some random server reboots every few weeks. Its 100% classic, adds a few more items to the game, and plus server reboot days are the most fun ever. Legit bragging rights imo.

I think there'd be more support for an actual patch every once in a while than a random "simulated" server reboot every few weeks. My point is that someone like Rogean would probably need to manually do it every time, and if he doesn't have time to patch the server, I doubt he has time to do that. Not saying it's necessarily a bad idea though! Whenever all mobs popped at once, rare as it happened, I thought it was way more fun and meritocratic and actually did rely on mobilization. Anyone calling it "mobilization" when a mob spawns at 2AM and your mains are already afk/camped near their room is just being silly.

I know I had this chat with you earlier and that there are some problems with the idea, but I really think we need to implement something where the raid mob shouts to the zone when he gets aggro, and when he's cleared. It's not perfect. It doesn't control kiting or things like that (I guess TMO intended to port back to the zone in, have darkdeath FD/hide/stand up to single pull inny there?) but at least its a huge step in the right direction. The problem we have right now is that encounters are judged on a metric we as players cannot observe.

Instead of FTE it should really be "first to damage to the point where it starts summoning". In cases where that's really unclear it should just be awarded to whoever's group gets the experience. I don't think there is anything meritocratic about engaging something 0.001 seconds before another guild, but there is merit involved in doing it 5 seconds before, or even a minute before. Note that I'm not supporting KSing - if guild A engages Inny, is having trouble, has him down to 20% but all their DPS is dead (somehow), and they could still plausibly win, then it's not okay for guild B to storm in with 6 rogues and steal the kill, even if their group would get the exp. However, if two guilds are poopsocking something and it's unclear who engaged first, then whoever gets the kill should be awarded it. I think this would cut down on a lot of the work GM's have to do.

I don't think the current rules are adequate and I don't think something as simple as FTE is the best solution. Like you said it requires the players to request GM assistance and in cases of loot that you might turn in for other items and server firsts, the players start to expect the GM's to be "on call" for them when that's simply unrealistic.

[Amelinda]

mama liek:
However, if two guilds are poopsocking something and it's unclear who engaged first, then whoever gets the kill should be awarded it. I think this would cut down on a lot of the work GM's have to do.

the main issue i see with this though is then petitions would STILL come in:

We had FTE on Inny and TMO says they couldn't tell who was FTE.

So then we'd have to have a set of rules that would enforce this such as:

If the first player from guild B that engages the mob is more than 5 seconds after the first person from guild A then guild B is interfering with the raid. etc.

GRANTED it would likely only take one raid interference suspension to make people act right. but then one guild would be miserable for 2 weeks and i guarantee you my tell box would be non-stop scrolling about what a bitch I am for raid suspending whichever guild fucked up.

i like this idea but i can't figure out a way to implement it where it would actually cut down on my work.

[Zephyrus]

Wouldn't implementing a raid encounter shout of FTE like others have suggested eliminate most of the issues and then require no more rules Amelinda?

[Splorf22]

I actually like Giegue's idea a lot. It not only fixes hard-to-determine FTE with eyes and pets, but it also solves issues like kiting. If someone is running dragon x around with a bard, the other guild can just nuke him with a wizard and claim him.

[Fountree]

More simulated patch day repops will help the with the mental health of p99s raiding guilds...and it's classic. FTE should still be implemented imo but if a mob is down to <18 hours left or so, thats when it starts getting really socky. Maybe different rules to address late spawns?

[Splorf22]

As much as I hate variance, I think I would actually prefer full variance to partial variance, i.e. all mobs in window all the time or equivalently Nagafen with 0-14 days of respawning rather than 7 +/- 3.

My big point here is that the players and GMs need to sit down and work out a better system for when to repop mobs and how to decide who wins. We can do better than what we have right now.

[bluejam]

I can't think of a guildleader or guide/GM that would be against the raid encounter automatically giving us the one piece of information we need to police ourselves instead of having to bother staff to pull server logs to determine FTE.
This has been suggested months ago and ignored.

[Kawai]

well i know many will dislike what i am gonna say but i believe to basically eradicate all the poopsocking (wich is retard imo) you will have to make all raid mobs variance change to 1H to 7 days.
I know this will add a few more items , and i know it will piss all the players tracking mobs over and over but unless the mob is hitting the last part of his window (wich should be rare) , you won't be able to poop it .... unless you decide to skip many others raid targets. And without poopsocking you barely have rarely 2 guilds (or more) sitting in a spot waiting to FTE it.

K

ps : this is a personnal idea not reflecting what my guild , guildleadership or members believe.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Could just have leaders of each raid force random for the opportunity to fight.


set standards for size of raid force allowed to random upon spawn... if nobody is there and its a rush.. then first come first serve



of course there will be mouthbreathers who don't want to random and just engage.. but i think a round of suspensions would help people see that there are actually rules on the server.. not that i expect that to ever happen >_>


either way i say there should be rules... or there shouldn't be rules... not some inbetween loosely enforced rule set.

[john_savage1982]

I'll reiterate:

GM decisions are unfair.
They don't care.
Don't like it then don't play.
They really don't care either way.

[Lazortag]

I'll reiterate:

GM decisions are unfair.
They don't care.
Don't like it then don't play.
They really don't care either way.

They literally just read from encounter logs who aggroed first. That's about as objective as you can get.

[Autotune]

wtb weekly full pops as per classic.

Want all headaches gone? make it classic.

[Flunklesnarkin]

They literally just read from encounter logs who aggroed first. That's about as objective as you can get.

yah pretty objective i would say


but i don't think its the best way to play an mmo lol... hundreds of people spamming open air.. or more likely auto fire botting to get FTE



I think it would be much better if people randomed before hand then gave space to the guild that won first shot at the raid target.

[Zapatos]

Simulated patch day, patch days, aka full server repops won't solve anything. That will just lead to larger chance of petitions, drama, etc. Granted they are classic, but that's a different issue for a different post.

A zonewide shout isn't classic, but it's a GREAT idea. I mean there a mobs that say "how dare you interfere with me PLAYER X"... in a raid scene that would save Amelinda the trouble of having to attend every crazy contested kill where 60 people are sitting on a spawn fighting for fte (see last VS). It would also solve the issue like with the recent Innoruuk or raid pulls in general, where the average raider has no clue what's happening on the puller's end and just takes their word on it (no need to suspend an entire guild for interference when it's just the pullers being bad). But anyways, spawn variance isn't classic but it was decided to be healthy for the server, why not fte shouts?

Granting the kill whoever gets exp is just bad, because that further enforces straight up Kill Stealing.

And while I'm still on a tangent: it just feels like the raid scene is deteriorating rapidly. Now instead of stall kiting it seems like the new cool thing to do is stall tank.. engage instantly and hold with a tank/healer while the rest of the raid force arrives. That in turn prompts more poopsocking, which in turn results in more FTE fights, which results in more petitions.

[Alkorin]

but i don't think its the best way to play an mmo lol...

It's not the best way to play. It's ridiculous. It's why I stopped playing.

However, it's reality on this server, because folks can't/don't want to share amongst themselves. I mean, this is likely why instancing was born in the first place -- paid SOE employees were spending the majority of their time dealing with petty PnP disputes about who stole whose Cloudsong.

Problem is, these GMs aren't paid. They're doing this because they enjoy it, and some of the players here are intent on making them suffer for it through their unbelievably selfish actions. That's life.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Most of the confusion/disagreements happen because no one can instantly tell who has rights to the raid encounter via FTE. This is what requires GM intervention to look at the server logs for the encounter after the fact.

Code the mobs to zonewide shout the FTE. Or zonewide shout the first person to get summoned by it. Whatever metric works best. But give us the tools (however non-classic) to determine this ourselves. If Innoruuk shouts "The Mystical Order must be destroyed!!" then other raid forces know to disengage and port out. If other forces see that and ninjaloot, KS, or otherwise interfere with the raid, raid-suspend them for a week. You'll see the drama about who got FTE when decrease pretty quick, I would imagine.

Bruman, its more about the time spent than it is the pixels, to be honest. How would you like it if your guild spent some time waiting for Fay to complete a druid epic, pull it, kill it, hand out the loot, then find out later it wasn't your kill because someone from the raid force at the chessboard had aggroed it with a Eye of Zomm a second before your puller tagged it?

[Autotune]

Simulated patch day, patch days, aka full server repops won't solve anything. That will just lead to larger chance of petitions, drama, etc. Granted they are classic, but that's a different issue for a different post.

A zonewide shout isn't classic, but it's a GREAT idea. I mean there a mobs that say "how dare you interfere with me PLAYER X"... in a raid scene that would save Amelinda the trouble of having to attend every crazy contested kill where 60 people are sitting on a spawn fighting for fte (see last VS). It would also solve the issue like with the recent Innoruuk or raid pulls in general, where the average raider has no clue what's happening on the puller's end and just takes their word on it (no need to suspend an entire guild for interference when it's just the pullers being bad). But anyways, spawn variance isn't classic but it was decided to be healthy for the server, why not fte shouts?

Granting the kill whoever gets exp is just bad, because that further enforces straight up Kill Stealing.

And while I'm still on a tangent: it just feels like the raid scene is deteriorating rapidly. Now instead of stall kiting it seems like the new cool thing to do is stall tank.. engage instantly and hold with a tank/healer while the rest of the raid force arrives. That in turn prompts more poopsocking, which in turn results in more FTE fights, which results in more petitions.

more patch day repops pls, this person is clueless.

Most of the problems we have is that every raid target is rare. Meaning it has that much more value.

We are nothing but stray dogs and rogean throws us scraps randomly to watch us fight and rip each other apart.

[Alkorin]

Stall tanking? My god, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. If you have a tank on a mob, and the tank's not dying, you're TANKING THE MOB.

Incredible...

[Fountree]

Yendor, your example sounds exactly what happened to us on Fay at the hands of your friends a few weeks back lol. Nothing was done...but alas we moved on.

[Fountree]

Lol I totally agree Alkorin. Some of these VD arguments are entertaining.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Stall tanking? My god, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. If you have a tank on a mob, and the tank's not dying, you're TANKING THE MOB.

Incredible...


yah some people kill a monster slowly in mmo's if they are on non-24 hour timers like say a 16 hour timer


if you hold it for an hour or so you can control when the respawn window will start.

[Feminem]

I'll reiterate:

GM decisions are unfair.
They don't care.
Don't like it then don't play.
They really don't care either way.


The GMs are only here because they care about the server. Why in the world would anyone want to spend their time handling all these silly complaints and petty disputes?

It seems obvious that you should NOT be blaming the GMs for an issues that are purely the players' decisions. They are clearly making an effort to help mediate issues that the players should be able to mediate on their own.

Just a thought. I hate it when people who already have difficult and thankless jobs get the finger pointed at them, as well.

[Zapatos]

more patch day repops pls, this person is clueless.

Most of the problems we have is that every raid target is rare. Meaning it has that much more value.

We are nothing but stray dogs and rogean throws us scraps randomly to watch us fight and rip each other apart.

Then you greatly underestimate how much people will race and compete for raid pops given the chance. More pops will mean less waiting around and more fighting/drama. (edit: with the current system)

And stall tanking.. I don't know what you'd call it, but that 2 players, being the only 2 of that guild in a zone, can get FTE and hold a mob with no chance of killing it until the rest of the guild arrives is not good. I see that as equivalent to someone kiting a mob until the guild arrives. I've seen this happen at Venril Sathir and that is why all the guilds are now sitting in the room instead.

[arsenalpow]

I think simulated patch days are the fix to make everyone happy (no rolling restarts, everything up all at once)

It requires guilds to make a strategic choice for targets, and it removes the soul crushing sockfest that is really killing the end game experience.

[Versus]

I think simulated patch days are the fix to make everyone happy (no rolling restarts, everything up all at once)

It requires guilds to make a strategic choice for targets, and it removes the soul crushing sockfest that is really killing the end game experience.

[Bruman]

Bruman, its more about the time spent than it is the pixels, to be honest. How would you like it if your guild spent some time waiting for Fay to complete a druid epic, pull it, kill it, hand out the loot, then find out later it wasn't your kill because someone from the raid force at the chessboard had aggroed it with a Eye of Zomm a second before your puller tagged it?

That's still about loot, you said it yourself - you're trying to complete a druid epic.

The only reason to kill any of these mobs from the big guilds is to get their loot (even if 99% of it they don't care about anymore). Noone cares about actually being able to kill the mob. I don't blame you guys - you've all done it 5000 times.

I mean, I understand what you're saying - every time the GMs come up with a new rule, someone will find a way to cheat it. Eye of Zoom is the current stupid thing in a long list of nonsense that's being used. But the only reason you'd spend that much time waiting on Fay, again, is for the loot.

No variance and patch-day repops would help, because more mobs = more loot = less people crying about loot, but seriously, a lot of these mobs have been on farm for a year or more, everyone knows the big guilds have banks full of pp and items rotting, so it's more of a bandaid. Nothing but clear-cut un-contestable rules will work, such as a rotation with a set time limit, or it becomes FFA / KS group wins.

[Zapatos]

It also sets a time that the ENTIRE server is aware of bosses popping. In that situation, you don't just have the guilds who dedicate trackers and know the windows of those mobs getting them, you have EVERYONE making for a lunge at something. That does not at all in any way or form address the problem people having fighting over FTE when guilds go for the same 'high priority' target, which will happen still no differently than it does now.

[baub]

Stall tanking? My god, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. If you have a tank on a mob, and the tank's not dying, you're TANKING THE MOB.

Incredible...

Starting toward the end of 2010, if the mob's HP wasn't dropping, this was viewed as stalling. IB and DA each were forced to forfeit a couple Nagafen's for trying this.

Just figured I'd share, since new raiding guilds like yours don't seem to know about things like this and fighting Vox in her lair =)

[Bruman]

It also sets a time that the ENTIRE server is aware of bosses popping. In that situation, you don't just have the guilds who dedicate trackers and know the windows of those mobs getting them, you have EVERYONE making for a lunge at something. That does not at all in any way or form address the problem people having fighting over FTE when guilds go for the same 'high priority' target, which will happen still no differently than it does now.

Which requires everyone to get their head out of their ass and come up with a more amicable solution, instead of complicated rules and relying on GM intervention. There's a reason rotations, and eventually instancing, became commonplace.

Making decisions and trying new things based solely on the worst possible outcome is a horrible way to go about things.

Not to mention, at least then it'd be classic.

[Flunklesnarkin]

more spawns doesn't solve the problem of FTE


it just makes it occur more often.

[Splorf22]

Look Bruman, I had a huge thread earlier about getting more simulated patch days. I still think its a good idea (my favorite would be 2 per month, 1 random and 1 on say the first of every month) and utterly classic. I think we should implement it tomorrow. But the real problem here is that EQ is designed to make players fight over a limited number of raid mobs. Meanwhile our server is populated almost entirely by people who played on live before, and were good at it, i.e. they played a lot, so the server is extremely top heavy. In other words, the supply is low, the demand is high, and the payment will come in time.

Again, I like the Giegue/Loraen plan: to claim FTE, your guild must have the raid boss at 99% HP or less, and one of your players summoned by the raid mob within the past 30 seconds. If you are legitimately killilng the mob, this is easy anyway: as soon as the main tank sees the target's HP at 99%, just run away until you get summoned. Actually I think TMO/IB/VD should just sit down and agree to this anyway.

This is easy to verify because mobs currently shout to the zone when they summon players. It eliminates all forms of kiting or stalling or whatever.

[Flunklesnarkin]

one spawned one randomed could work


but that would just make it difficult for people to keep track of which is which


seems to add another layer of complexity on something that should probably be kept simple.

[Autotune]

no 2 guilds are going to sock a mob they know is going to spawn if there are 10 others about to pop as well.

A decision will be made and there will be no FTE battle. The high priority problem mobs will be killed first with no competition. the final mob/s will be low priority mobs that no guild will care about. /waves at gore

It solves problems.

This happens every single time.

[Xatava]

Look Bruman, I had a huge thread earlier about getting more simulated patch days. I still think its a good idea (my favorite would be 2 per month, 1 random and 1 on say the first of every month) and utterly classic. I think we should implement it tomorrow. But the real problem here is that EQ is designed to make players fight over a limited number of raid mobs. Meanwhile our server is populated almost entirely by people who played on live before, and were good at it, i.e. they played a lot, so the server is extremely top heavy. In other words, the supply is low, the demand is high, and the payment will come in time.

Again, I like the Giegue/Loraen plan: to claim FTE, your guild must have the raid boss at 99% HP or less, and one of your players summoned by the raid mob within the past 30 seconds. If you are legitimately killilng the mob, this is easy anyway: as soon as the main tank sees the target's HP at 99%, just run away until you get summoned. Actually I think TMO/IB/VD should just sit down and agree to this anyway.

This is easy to verify because mobs currently shout to the zone when they summon players. It eliminates all forms of kiting or stalling or whatever.

I've seen some stupid suggestions before, but it's going to be very difficult to top this one.

[Flunklesnarkin]

no 2 guilds are going to sock a mob they know is going to spawn if there are 10 others about to pop as well.

A decision will be made and there will be no FTE battle. The high priority problem mobs will be killed first with no competition. the final mob/s will be low priority mobs that no guild will care about. /waves at gore

It solves problems.

This happens every single time.

it solves problem on less desirable raid targets


still FTE spam fest on the most desired ones.

[Lazortag]

no 2 guilds are going to sock a mob they know is going to spawn if there are 10 others about to pop as well.

A decision will be made and there will be no FTE battle. The high priority problem mobs will be killed first with no competition. the final mob/s will be low priority mobs that no guild will care about. /waves at gore

It solves problems.

This happens every single time.

I'd be interested in wondering what the experiences are of GM's who've had to deal with full repops, when they did happen (specifically whether there were less disputes). From the fights I took part in, FTE was never contested and there was much more emphasis on mobilization.

[Autotune]

I'd be interested in wondering what the experiences are of GM's who've had to deal with full repops, when they did happen (specifically whether there were less disputes). From the fights I took part in, FTE was never contested and there was much more emphasis on mobilization.

this is what happens. Instead of a race to tag each mob, it's a race of who can kill the most.

every time there are repops we avoid each other like the plague on high priority targets. Mainly cause it's a waste of time to bother with FTE bullshit.

Like I said, no guild will bother trying to FTE high priority mobs, there is more than 1. 5 total atm.

Who is going to go to hate to contest a mob against a guild already mobilized for it when Trak, CT, VS, Fay are still up?

No one.

Edit: There is not a single good reason for not implementing this.

[YendorLootmonkey]

That's still about loot, you said it yourself - you're trying to complete a druid epic.

The only reason to kill any of these mobs from the big guilds is to get their loot (even if 99% of it they don't care about anymore). Noone cares about actually being able to kill the mob. I don't blame you guys - you've all done it 5000 times.

I mean, I understand what you're saying - every time the GMs come up with a new rule, someone will find a way to cheat it. Eye of Zoom is the current stupid thing in a long list of nonsense that's being used. But the only reason you'd spend that much time waiting on Fay, again, is for the loot.

Next time I inspect you, you better not have anything in your equipment slots then, especially planar/raid gear. Of course people want to achieve some sort of reward for their time/effort.

How does the zonewide FTE shout idea keep getting swept under the rug? It's almost like people would rather have the confusion/drama/GM intervention...

[Zapatos]

The zonewide fte shout is the best and simplest thing that can be added to the game right now that would prevent Amelinda, guides, etc to have to be flooded with FTE petitions. It would make the raiding part of the game more manageable with less GM oversight. It's not classic (nor is variance), but it would supplement the need for constant GM involvement.

Training, blatent kill stealing, ninja looting, stalling, etc etc are all other things. This is just a solution to one (though one of the most frequent raid problems)

[Flunklesnarkin]

The zonewide fte shout is the best and simplest thing that can be added to the game right now that would prevent Amelinda, guides, etc to have to be flooded with FTE petitions. It would make the raiding part of the game more manageable with less GM oversight. It's not classic (nor is variance), but it would supplement the need for constant GM involvement.

Training, blatent kill stealing, ninja looting, stalling, etc etc are all other things. This is just a solution to one (though one of the most frequent raid problems)

+1 for zonewide FTE shout until better ideas come up that GM's will implement.

[Bruman]

Next time I inspect you, you better not have anything in your equipment slots then, especially planar/raid gear. Of course people want to achieve some sort of reward for their time/effort.

You're not making any sense. You're the one who has to defend his "it's not about the loot" stance.

-Someone says "It's not about the loot"
-Bruman says "Yes it is"
-Yendor says "No, it's really not, it's about time invested"
-Bruman says "The only reason you invest time is still for the loot"
-Yendor says "Of course it's about the loot"

Bunny pancake? Why would I not have any planar gear? I never insinuated or implied there was anything wrong in playing for loot (although it's on the minor side of why I play, personally, but it's there).

I was calling bullshit (and rightly so) on the argument that people just want to kill the mob for competition. If that's the case, then any arbitrary mob could be raced for to get the same thing. First to kill Emperor Crush wins EQ! (Just kidding, BDA has it locked down, noone has any chance).

[Bruman]

How does the zonewide FTE shout idea keep getting swept under the rug? It's almost like people would rather have the confusion/drama/GM intervention...

D'oh sorry for the double-post - anyways, I have no idea. It's a decent idea, but is only treating a symptom, not the root of the problem. It'd still be an improvement over what we have now.

But the GMs seem unwilling to respond to anything regarding the current state of raiding, hence why the topic keeps coming up every two weeks.

[Silentone]

We need server repops, we need the FTE shout to be put in...hell if you can lock a target to a guild tag, do it.

[Szeth]

We need server repops, we need the FTE shout to be put in...hell if you can lock a target to a guild tag, do it.

For a varied amount of max time per mob? Or is FTE on world dragons now an invitation to kite for as long as needed?

[Autotune]

For a varied amount of max time per mob? Or is FTE on world dragons now an invitation to kite for as long as needed?

who cares, i want targets to say my name.

[tekniq]

cant we just make raid targets like 10x harder? i think it would make this much more fun.

[Silentone]

For a varied amount of max time per mob? Or is FTE on world dragons now an invitation to kite for as long as needed?

By saying put the FTE shout in, I wasnt implying to throw out current rules and considerations.

[Szeth]

Was referring to locking mobs to a guild, can't look at your own post so narrowly.

[Xatava]

hell if you can lock a target to a guild tag, do it.

no thanks. if people want to play world of warcraft they can go play world of warcraft

[Shiftin]

The simple fact of the matter is that there are really only 3 individuals who are empowered to make raid decisions. Nilbog, Rogean and myself.

I can definitely sympathize and understand your frustrations. However, do please realize that all 3 of us have real lives and stuff happens in those real lives.

This, and the resulting commentary, are an awesome (not in a good way) microcosm of the actual problem that led to this OP and what you know i'm ready to unload.

What happenned here? One person posted a legitimate problem. Immediately, people who are on the other side of the most recent issue that highlighted the problem (stealin, etc) jumped in and tried to muddy the waters / confuse the actual problem. IB folks responded taking the bait and going off the point. Then people who weren't even involved gave their fourty two cents. Things devolved rapidly, and the rules (of the forum in this case) were slowly then blatanly violated as things got worse. Then, 3 days later, someone with authority chimed in and tried to address the real issue, way too late.

It should be a very familiar pattern. It's not a slam on TMO, or IB, or VD, or BDA, or the dozen people who have never even raided here who think they have a valid opinion, it's just the very predictable cycle of events that happens on the server on an almost daily basis.

There are 3 people empowered to address issues, and 1 person who does, you. It's not fair to you and it's not fair to the people who play here in good faith under a very clear posted set of rules.

Amelinda, i've said this to you privately and now i'm saying it publicly. You cannot be the only person addressing these rules given the tools available to you and the expectation that we follow the rules. There aren't actually 3 people who deal with the issues and that hasn't been close to true for a long time.

We can:
a) scrap the rules, go wild west style
or
b) empower more people to actually handle problems, with a transparent appeals process and data available publicly to shut up these he said/she said that come about every week.

There's no in between. There can't be. We've tried that for 6 months and it's a complete and utter failure. You have a real life and real problems - and this *isn't your job*. Rogean doesn't respond to raid petitions and hasn't given a crap about them for a very long time - again, this is his hobby, so that's his prerogative. If that wasn't true, we've had back the loot from *last july* that he promised us and we've bumped the petitions regarding repeatedly.

This is not a status quo that works. Drastic things have to happen, whether that's scrapping the rules entirely or adding non-classic (mob shouting FTE, etc) mechanics.

edit: +1 for it being completely asinine that the variance is still 4 days on mobs with no patch days. It inevitably separates high value targets and absolutely encourages these FTE poopsock sessions.

[Autotune]

What happenned here? One person posted a legitimate problem. Immediately, people who are on the other side of the most recent issue that highlighted the problem (stealin, etc) jumped in and tried to muddy the waters / confuse the actual problem.

ah yes, I immediately ( 20hrs later immediately ) jumped on this thread to muddy the waters and confuse the actual problem.

It's quite apparent to every stupid fuck on the forums.

Shiftin proves once again, he can not make a point/statement without trying to throw in a petty jab here or there.

[Shiftin]

I appreciate you bolstering my point by ignoring the meat of what I wrote and trying to divert attention from the real problem. Wonderfully self aware of you and not at all what I was referring to.

[Metallikus]

This, and the resulting commentary, are an awesome (not in a good way) microcosm of the actual problem that led to this OP and what you know i'm ready to unload.

What happenned here? One person posted a legitimate problem. Immediately, people who are on the other side of the most recent issue that highlighted the problem (stealin, etc) jumped in and tried to muddy the waters / confuse the actual problem. IB folks responded taking the bait and going off the point. Then people who weren't even involved gave their fourty two cents. Things devolved rapidly, and the rules (of the forum in this case) were slowly then blatanly violated as things got worse. Then, 3 days later, someone with authority chimed in and tried to address the real issue, way too late.

It should be a very familiar pattern. It's not a slam on TMO, or IB, or VD, or BDA, or the dozen people who have never even raided here who think they have a valid opinion, it's just the very predictable cycle of events that happens on the server on an almost daily basis.

There are 3 people empowered to address issues, and 1 person who does, you. It's not fair to you and it's not fair to the people who play here in good faith under a very clear posted set of rules.

Amelinda, i've said this to you privately and now i'm saying it publicly. You cannot be the only person addressing these rules given the tools available to you and the expectation that we follow the rules. There aren't actually 3 people who deal with the issues and that hasn't been close to true for a long time.

We can:
a) scrap the rules, go wild west style
or
b) empower more people to actually handle problems, with a transparent appeals process and data available publicly to shut up these he said/she said that come about every week.

There's no in between. There can't be. We've tried that for 6 months and it's a complete and utter failure. You have a real life and real problems - and this *isn't your job*. Rogean doesn't respond to raid petitions and hasn't given a crap about them for a very long time - again, this is his hobby, so that's his prerogative. If that wasn't true, we've had back the loot from *last july* that he promised us and we've bumped the petitions regarding repeatedly.

This is not a status quo that works. Drastic things have to happen, whether that's scrapping the rules entirely or adding non-classic (mob shouting FTE, etc) mechanics.

edit: +1 for it being completely asinine that the variance is still 4 days on mobs with no patch days. It inevitably separates high value targets and absolutely encourages these FTE poopsock sessions.

Good points

[Flunklesnarkin]

monster /shout name of first to engage.. nuff said.

[Autotune]

I appreciate you bolstering my point by ignoring the meat of what I wrote and trying to divert attention from the real problem. Wonderfully self aware of you and not at all what I was referring to.

The lack of response to the rest of your post does not mean I ignored it. I simply had nothing to add or respond to. Can't see past your own little jabs can you?

The first post i made was a response to the QQ that ill informed people were making.

The response to you was personal, as you made it personal.

The main point of this thread has been done to death, it does not warrant a full response of it's own. There is a forum search function after all.

[Joroz]

shout fte is a good start to keep gm's from being tied up with this junk... but after being to some of these guild camp on spawn raids fte kinda allows 1 person to get fte with all his buddies sleeping while everyone else does the work. mob is half dead before anyone is awake at keyboards. maybe you should need 10 or 15 of your guild on the hate list for a fte to be called. /who lists don't tell you anything about who is actually in the area or at the zone in.

[Metallikus]

The degredation of the first to engage rule is its own problem. For example:

Throwing a javelin at a mob when your force isnt even in zone but you see the other guild is about to pull. You think "ha, I'll throw my javelin as they are about to engage and if I get on the agro list first I can get a cheap victory even tho we got beat to the mob".

or
I'm a SK, so I'll have my pet on spawn and be FD. If some other guild appears to be about to engage I'll stand up real quick just to get a cheap FTE no matter how ready my guild. The action either serves its purpose for a cheap FTE, or it trains the mob over the force that is about to pull, or you try to kite it around while your force mobilizes....

or
I got a real cute eyeball trick where I make an eyeball, FD, send this eyeball past a bunch of mobs, stand up when its at Inny's feet because I see there is another guild trying to pull with a force of 40 in zone while I only have 7. I can pull this mob past their camp with a huge ass train, and even if someone picks the mob out of the train for FTE, its still mine because I am running to the zone in to train everyone there with all the mobs in the zone.

I mean, what happened to the Draco rule? That if you are kiting around a bunch of mobs with draco in the mix, that doesn't count as an engage - the team that pulls draco out of the train and into a camp with theforce to kill it was the team with FTE. Shouldn't that apply to the Inny pull where you are kiting Inny + 30 mobs to the zone in but someone else pulled Inny out of your train?

[Flunklesnarkin]

shout fte is a good start to keep gm's from being tied up with this junk... but after being to some of these guild camp on spawn raids fte kinda allows 1 person to get fte with all his buddies sleeping while everyone else does the work. mob is half dead before anyone is awake at keyboards. maybe you should need 10 or 15 of your guild on the hate list for a fte to be called. /who lists don't tell you anything about who is actually in the area or at the zone in.

would be simple enough.. if your guild isn't FTE just disengage and wait for wipe


then take your shot.

[Autotune]

I mean, what happened to the Draco rule? That if you are kiting around a bunch of mobs with draco in the mix, that doesn't count as an engage - the team that pulls draco out of the train and into a camp with theforce to kill it was the team with FTE. Shouldn't that apply to the Inny pull where you are kiting Inny + 30 mobs to the zone in but someone else pulled Inny out of your train?

seems that results in a 1 week suspension.

[Metallikus]

seems that results in a 1 week suspension.

Referring to last draco I presume..

The way I understand it: IB/VD had a large force in fear, kited a train of mobs, tagged draco to bring to camp. meanwhile 1 TMO guy in zone, overagros draco and proceeds to run him north to cause a wipe on IB/VD by agroing temple mobs in order to buy time for TMO's raid force to get to fear.

Raid interference, he is lucky only 1 week suspended.

[Lazortag]

The degredation of the first to engage rule is its own problem. For example:

Throwing a javelin at a mob when your force isnt even in zone but you see the other guild is about to pull. You think "ha, I'll throw my javelin as they are about to engage and if I get on the agro list first I can get a cheap victory even tho we got beat to the mob".

or
I'm a SK, so I'll have my pet on spawn and be FD. If some other guild appears to be about to engage I'll stand up real quick just to get a cheap FTE no matter how ready my guild. The action either serves its purpose for a cheap FTE, or it trains the mob over the force that is about to pull, or you try to kite it around while your force mobilizes....

or
I got a real cute eyeball trick where I make an eyeball, FD, send this eyeball past a bunch of mobs, stand up when its at Inny's feet because I see there is another guild trying to pull with a force of 40 in zone while I only have 7. I can pull this mob past their camp with a huge ass train, and even if someone picks the mob out of the train for FTE, its still mine because I am running to the zone in to train everyone there with all the mobs in the zone.


Exactly, it's a ridiculous rule. It should be "first to damage until it summons". Good luck kiting it then.

[Autotune]

Referring to last draco I presume..

The way I understand it: IB/VD had a large force in fear, kited a train of mobs, tagged draco to bring to camp. meanwhile 1 TMO guy in zone, overagros draco and proceeds to run him north to cause a wipe on IB/VD by agroing temple mobs in order to buy time for TMO's raid force to get to fear.

Raid interference, he is lucky only 1 week suspended.

I think it is pretty clear if VD loses a mob to another guild, they are going to complain about something.

Eye fte = omg exploit
Pulling to camp when camp is empty = omg exploit
tagging a mob being kited = omg exploit
FDing with a pet for fte = omg exploit

BTW, most (if not all) of this has been done by both tmo and ib. Welcome to raiding, random VD member #430382.

[Gratis]

Or you people could quit being children and stop treating minor issues as major infractions. There are tons of petitions coming in for reasons that can actually be resolved quickly and don't culminate in a message board brawl by a bunch of adults acting like brats.

Mob loot gets flipped between raid guilds almost every spawn yet somehow three days can't go by without you guys screaming foul on the forums or texting Amelinda in the middle of the night. That's pathetic.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Or you people could quit being children and stop treating minor issues as major infractions. There are tons of petitions coming in for reasons that can actually be resolved quickly and don't culminate in a message board brawl by a bunch of adults acting like brats.

Mob loot gets flipped between raid guilds almost every spawn yet somehow three days can't go by without you guys screaming foul on the forums or texting Amelinda in the middle of the night. That's pathetic.

but this is all i have :(

[Metallikus]

Or you people could quit being children and stop treating minor issues as major infractions. There are tons of petitions coming in for reasons that can actually be resolved quickly and don't culminate in a message board brawl by a bunch of adults acting like brats.

Mob loot gets flipped between raid guilds almost every spawn yet somehow three days can't go by without you guys screaming foul on the forums or texting Amelinda in the middle of the night. That's pathetic.

I blame the leadership.
There is a forum set up on here for the leaders of the raid guilds to discuss these issues. There seems to be 1 post on it. We could rotate certain pain in the ass encounters but the leadership refuse to come to terms.

The reason certain leadership won't come to the table and talk is because their guild is allowed to get away with raid interference and they benefit from the petitions not being answered.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I blame the leadership.
There is a forum set up on here for the leaders of the raid guilds to discuss these issues. There seems to be 1 post on it. We could rotate certain pain in the ass encounters but the leadership refuse to come to terms.

The reason certain leadership won't come to the table and talk is because their guild is allowed to get away with raid interference and they benefit from the petitions not being answered.

We don't take kindly to yer logic 'round here >:U



seems like amelinda gonna start policing stuff better (check sticky)... watch out for the flames ;p

[Joroz]

actually the eye thing is an exploit. being feign should not be making the "eye" non kos even though the caster is feign. Dot pulling is also an exploit, your suppose to be cleared from the hate list when coth and your continued dot damage should not be going as damage from you, sort of like when the client doesn't know who damaged you; you get hit by pain and suffering. A single mob chasing a person invisible around the zone without out picking up buddies on the same faction is also a bug that is exploited a lot to accomplish "questionable" pulls.

p99 strives to be like live back in the day but has holes, when these holes are used they are exploits regardless of whether all the raiding guilds use the tactic or not.

[Maze513]

If there really were server rules Perun would be banned... facts are facts

[Autotune]

actually the eye thing is an exploit. being feign should not be making the "eye" non kos even though the caster is feign. Dot pulling is also an exploit, your suppose to be cleared from the hate list when coth and your continued dot damage should not be going as damage from you, sort of like when the client doesn't know who damaged you; you get hit by pain and suffering. A single mob chasing a person invisible around the zone without out picking up buddies on the same faction is also a bug that is exploited a lot to accomplish "questionable" pulls.

p99 strives to be like live back in the day but has holes, when these holes are used they are exploits regardless of whether all the raiding guilds use the tactic or not.

if it's a bug, report it. I never played live EQ much.

[Lazortag]

actually the eye thing is an exploit. being feign should not be making the "eye" non kos even though the caster is feign. Dot pulling is also an exploit, your suppose to be cleared from the hate list when coth and your continued dot damage should not be going as damage from you, sort of like when the client doesn't know who damaged you; you get hit by pain and suffering. A single mob chasing a person invisible around the zone without out picking up buddies on the same faction is also a bug that is exploited a lot to accomplish "questionable" pulls.

None of the things you mentioned are exploits. The eye takes on the faction of the user and you could always use dots after coh to continue getting aggro, just because it wipes aggro doesn't mean you can't reaggro it. The dot pulsing again is no different from you going up to the mob and hitting it again. If you think this isn't how it worked in classic, find evidence for it.

[john_savage1982]

Easy fixes:

1) Make raid mobs significantly harder so that for any given encounter the possibility of failure regardless of flawless execution is still relatively high. This would make guild competition dynamics more interesting since now there'll be a trade-off between preparation and first to engage instead of basically being guaranteed the kill if you are first to engage.

2) Get rid of variance and simulate server resets once a week. This will force guilds to prioritize targets and mobilization strategies to try and get the most/best targets since all the targets will be up at once. This solution will also allow more guilds to participate in raiding and is the most classic solution (in fact this is classic).

3) Enforce rotation - boring but it makes the rules easier to enforce.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The devs can easily implement any one of these systems (one of which there's no arguments that it's not classic). However, the fact they haven't for the years of this server indicates to me they have no intention of ever changing the system regardless that the current set of rules are ineffective. "Why?" is the question.

I don't see what the aversion is to a simulated reset once a week.

[Slave]

Easy fixes:

1) Make raid mobs significantly harder so that for any given encounter the possibility of failure regardless of flawless execution is still relatively high. This would make guild competition dynamics more interesting since now there'll be a trade-off between preparation and first to engage instead of basically being guaranteed the kill if you are first to engage.

This is the opposite of Classic. I see no reason for this of any kind.


2) Get rid of variance and simulate server resets once a week. This will force guilds to prioritize targets and mobilization strategies to try and get the most/best targets since all the targets will be up at once. This solution will also allow more guilds to participate in raiding and is the most classic solution (in fact this is classic).

Only a real P99 noob could possibly disagree with you here. Even so... once a week seems like it could be too much with natural mob spawn times; we could be getting 2 or 3 of something every 7 days that statistically you'd normally only have one drop on the server otherwise. So more like every 2 weeks might be the best time period.


3) Enforce rotation - boring but it makes the rules easier to enforce.

Get out of this forum, it is for P99 players only. :P


I don't see what the aversion is to a simulated reset...

^^^^^ tl;dr ^^^^^

[Joroz]

None of the things you mentioned are exploits. The eye takes on the faction of the user and you could always use dots after coh to continue getting aggro, just because it wipes aggro doesn't mean you can't reaggro it. The dot pulsing again is no different from you going up to the mob and hitting it again. If you think this isn't how it worked in classic, find evidence for it.

Go ahead and argue pulling a god/boss through his zone with no adds to the zone in using any of these methods is as intended.

[Reptak]

Lots of the mechanics in EQ are used "not as intended." Look at FD pulling for example.

Edit: Not saying I completely disagree with you. But using the mechanics of the server to your advantage has always been a part of EQ and lots of times there are unintended methods available. This does not automatically scream exploit and in many ways is classic. Now if you have evidence of something not working the way it did on live, then petition it. I would like a classic experience even if it means losing some technique that is currently used. I think in many cases, we just have a lot more information than we did at the time on live. I for one don't remember farming invis rings, midnight mallets, root nets and getting stalking probes back then. Maybe we just didn't know better?

[Joroz]

p99 uses the patch time lines to make changes... what this doesn't account for is the time gm/guides had to enforce issues the developers didn't have fixes for. not being live code p99 is going to develop its own problems that will need to be addressed. general rule is if the trick you are doing turns the pull or encounter into something trivial or eliminates the risk its probably not as intended.

[Lazortag]

Go ahead and argue pulling a god/boss through his zone with no adds to the zone in using any of these methods is as intended.

Evidence?

[Alkorin]

Not to derail, but mallets weren't easily farmable on Live. That's why you didn't do it.

Either way, who cares? Top guilds will always collect these sorts of things to give themselves an advantage in any game. It's why they're the top guilds.

[Joroz]

Evidence?

play any live server. what needs to be proved is when it was ever changed from the state it is on p99 or its just a p99 bug.

[Alkorin]

play any live server. what needs to be proved is when it was ever changed from the state it is on p99 or its just a p99 bug.

Are you trying to say that nothing was ever pulled through a zone on Live by people who FD'd off adds and had people tag?

Sorry, what?

[Joroz]

Are you trying to say that nothing was ever pulled through a zone on Live by people who FD'd off adds and had people tag?

Sorry, what?

no, not what's being said. a feign puller is taking risk on pull... pulling a mob through a populated zone is risk to raid with all the adds... a feign split is skill. using game dynamics to avoid that risk is what we are talking about.

[john_savage1982]

This is the opposite of Classic. I see no reason for this of any kind.



Only a real P99 noob could possibly disagree with you here. Even so... once a week seems like it could be too much with natural mob spawn times; we could be getting 2 or 3 of something every 7 days that statistically you'd normally only have one drop on the server otherwise. So more like every 2 weeks might be the best time period.



Get out of this forum, it is for P99 players only. :P



^^^^^ tl;dr ^^^^^



I don't quite understand what you mean by "getting 2 or 3 of something every 7 days that statistically you'd normally only have one drop on the server otherwise". Please be more clear.

However, I think I understand what you're hinting at. Because not every raid mob is on the same timer length (3day, 7day, 10day, etc) then it's unlikely we could pick a simulated reset timer that wouldn't increase the frequency of spawns. (seeing a 10 day spawn every 7 days, for instance)

Since spawn variance is already not classic, there are several tweaks/ideas we could think about to remedy this problem.

1) Introduce spawn probability into the simulated reset. In this case, there is a single time that all raid targets could or could not spawn. This will make it so guilds that bank on single targets may walk away empty handed, effectively encouraging strategies of mobilization rather than poop-socking for optimization of loot acquisition. If a mob does not spawn at the simulated reset, then it will spawn on it's normal timer. In this case, making the reset a non-raid-target interval makes sense to create the most randomness (also to constantly rotate the day of the week which the event occurs to include the most people - 6 days is nice).

2) Make multiple resets for each raid-target family which share the same spawn timer. This will make it so every 3-day raid target will spawn at the same time, every 7-day raid target will spawn at the same time, and so forth. This way we don't increase the frequency of spawns for any one mob while also accomplishing the goal of having multiple targets up at once for guilds to compete over which one(s) to go for.

[Alkorin]

no, not what's being said. a feign puller is taking risk on pull... pulling a mob through a populated zone is risk to raid with all the adds... a feign split is skill. using game dynamics to avoid that risk is what we are talking about.

So, instead, you're saying that CoH pulling didn't work on Live the way it does on P99? I'm still a bit confused here, because I remember it being exactly the same. It's been a long time.

[Flunklesnarkin]

his statement makes sense to me.. i think he's trying to say you can change the feel of a game by changing the rarity of certain items.


If everybody was running around with fungi tunics game would be a lot different for example.


how much making stuff spawn more frequently would change the game is up for discussion i'd assume..


but either way.. i dont see how making stuff spawn more often would fix FTE... making stuff more difficult.. i could see that


and for sure need the monster /shout name of FTE added to game would be helpful.

[Joroz]

So, instead, you're saying that CoH pulling didn't work on Live the way it does on P99? I'm still a bit confused here, because I remember it being exactly the same. It's been a long time.

sorry you are correct about the dot tick causing agro again, what is not correct is the dotted mob coming without everything in its path when certain things are done to the puller.

[Dravingar]

CotH pulling works right here as does invis/IVU pulling. Just people were really really bad at live(and still are at p99). Like people who thinks mobs summon at 99%.

[bman8810]

You aren't going to introduce a fix that addresses all of the issues at hand, it is going to take multiple fixes of some type. As such, and as someone who is relatively unbiased here, zonewide FTE combined with simulated patch days would likely be a good first step.

On another, yet similar, note - classic mechanics that allow for the trivialization of content need to be addressed regardless of whether they are "classic" or not.

[Lazortag]

Just a thought I had for those who were saying we should have server repops every week. Why not just agree to not engage any raid mobs until all of them have spawned, and then we can have a "simulated" repop every week, without having to involve the staff?

edit: this only concerns the 7 day spawns, obviously

[bman8810]

Just a thought I had for those who were saying we should have server repops every week. Why not just agree to not engage any raid mobs until all of them have spawned, and then we can have a "simulated" repop every week, without having to involve the staff?

edit: this only concerns the 7 day spawns, obviously

Considering the issues at hand do you really think this would work? I guess you could draft some type of rule set with the GMs saying that any guild caught violating the rules by not allowing a boss to stay spawned would be suspended and lose all loot gained. But you are asking people to keep their baser desires in check when they can't do it now.

Also, you would be reducing the number of spawns over time by making guilds wait (the longer a mob stays spawned the longer it takes to start its respawn counter). Plus, I feel like this is kind of counter to what was EQ raiding.

[Lazortag]

Considering the issues at hand do you really think this would work? I guess you could draft some type of rule set with the GMs saying that any guild caught violating the rules by not allowing a boss to stay spawned would be suspended and lose all loot gained. But you are asking people to keep their baser desires in check when they can't do it now.

Also, you would be reducing the number of spawns over time by making guilds wait (the longer a mob stays spawned the longer it takes to start its respawn counter). Plus, I feel like this is kind of counter to what was EQ raiding.

I guess my point was that we could easily have simulated repops without involving the staff. I disagree that this is counter to what EQ raiding was like (I mean, do you really think 96 hour windows on mobs is closer to what it was like? :p). Obviously you're right that it would mean less loot going into the server, so it's not a perfect solution, it was more just to illustrate what we could do without having the rules formally changed by the staff, if we all just agreed on a set of self-imposed rules.

[Shiftin]

except that you essentially move mobs back on 7 day timers to 9 day timers. we've had 1 mob per cycle spawn in the last 6 hours of it's possible lifespan almost every week. The last thing the server needs is *less* mob spawns.

[Lazortag]

except that you essentially move mobs back on 7 day timers to 9 day timers. we've had 1 mob per cycle spawn in the last 6 hours of it's possible lifespan almost every week. The last thing the server needs is *less* mob spawns.

Yes this was acknowledged already, I didn't really think of that when I made my post. If not for this I think it would be a great idea.

[bman8810]

Add in a multiplier for every raid mob up for each variable spawn rate -

Example - 10 mobs with 10 days spawns with +/- 3 days with a linear increase in spawn chance from day 7 to day 10 (day 0 = day 7, and day 3 = day 10 for the following equation) & each spawned boss gives a 1.5x multiplier. So:

P(day) = 0.317*day + 0.05 <--- 5% chance initially, increases by 31.7% per day

1 boss up on day 0.5, other bosses have a:

P(0.5) = 0.2085 * 1.5 (the multiplier) = 0.31275 or 31.275% chance to spawn.

5 bosses up on day 2:

1.5^5*P(2) = 1.5^2 * 0.684 = 7.59*0.684 = 519% chance to spawn

Ok, so the numbers aren't exact but you get the idea. However, this seems like a lot of non-Classic work for something that a random simulated patch day could do. Plus, I doubt the code even allows for something like this. Would be pretty cool, though I'm sure it lead to some interesting (or dbaggish strats) im sure.

[Maze513]

or just ban perun

[Metallikus]

gimme a fucking break with the lack of justice on this damn server.