2-boxing penalty

[Amelinda]

The penalty for 2-boxing is a ban. it is an INSTA-PERMA ban. Both accounts. No exceptions.

(you MAY message us politely in 4-6 months and request us to reconsider and if you acted quite politely and gracefully when we banned you then we are usually nice enough to let you have one account back -without IP exemption )

Several of you have been popped for 2-boxing on blue or red. How would you feel if I gave someone a second chance for one of the following reasons:

"I knew it was against the rules but didn't realize you would PERMA BAN the accounts. I figured you'd just suspend me."

"I knew it was against the rules but i feel the punishment is too harsh."

*PLEASE NOTE* this is merely a poll to find out the community's opinion on the matter.

[SamwiseRed]

BAN the fuck out of them. Ban should be like joining the NWO, 4 LIFE.

[Harrison]

Why is exploiting raid content 2 week suspension but something as trivial as 2boxing(while bad for server health also) a permaban?\

I am genuinely curious, Amelinda.

Both are blatantly ignoring posted well-known rules by choice, not accident. Both should be equal in punishment.

[fiegi]

yay

[heartbrand]

all depends on the context to me personally. was it someone doing a quick transfer or is it actual use of both chars to exp/pvp etc.

[Amelinda]

Why is exploiting raid content 2 week suspension but something as trivial as 2boxing(while bad for server health also) a permaban?\

I am genuinely curious, Amelinda.

holocaust ban was a 2-week suspension only because they had stolen their strat from another guild that had been doing the same thing for weeks and weeks with no repercussions because of our fault. the fault of the server staff. so we didn't permanently penalize those players.

[Harrison]

I meant in general. This goes way beyond the newest crop of lowlifes on either server.

Don't get me wrong. I am against 2boxing as vehemently as the next, but I don't understand why a more severe infraction is treated so lightly consistently. This may be a question more suited for Rogean and Nilbog, but I don't idle IRC like I used to, to ask them these questions. (too much inane jibberish and racist spam)

[heartbrand]

I meant to vote seems reasonable but I wish there was a third option like situation dependent. Permabans are extreme and I'd like to know more context in each case.

[Palemoon]

If you did not perma-ban two boxers, before you know it everyone would be doing it.

Everyone knows its against the rules , PERMA ban them. Its no question.

[Harrison]

If you did not perma-ban exploiters, before you know it everyone would be doing it.

Everyone knows its against the rules , PERMA ban them. Its no question.

I agree.

[heartbrand]

Boxing should def be illegal on this server I think anyone arguing otherwise is retarded. My only point is a permaban is extreme and I'd like to know the context, are they giving a port with a box? 2 week suspension. Is it to transfer an item? One week suspension. Are they using it for PVE/PVP? Month suspension first offense ban second, something like that.

[Amuk]

Why is exploiting raid content 2 week suspension but something as trivial as 2boxing(while bad for server health also) a permaban?\

I am genuinely curious, Amelinda.

Both are blatantly ignoring posted well-known rules by choice, not accident. Both should be equal in punishment.

He's just trolling Amelinda - did it on blue from what I've been hearing, now doing it on red. He doesn't even play here, and he's just stirring up shit with the easiest trolls possible. Hopefully after a few more months you'll just ban these fuckings retards and move on.

[Ssleeve]

What about /q exemption abuse if there is FRAPS proof should those people get banned too?

[Harrison]

He's just trolling Amelinda - did it on blue from what I've been hearing, now doing it on red. He doesn't even play here, and he's just stirring up shit with the easiest trolls possible. Hopefully after a few more months you'll just ban these fuckings retards and move on.

Amelinda knows how to contact me, and we've spoken before.

I'm not trolling her. I'm being 100% serious.

[quickcheck]

perma bann 1 account suspend other 7 days so we dont lose a player ... should bann the account with the higher toon

[quickcheck]

Boxing should def be illegal on this server I think anyone arguing otherwise is retarded. My only point is a permaban is extreme and I'd like to know the context, are they giving a port with a box? 2 week suspension. Is it to transfer an item? One week suspension. Are they using it for PVE/PVP? Month suspension first offense ban second, something like that.

agreed

[Lazortag]

I think the current system of letting people come back several months later if they're genuinely sorry works fine. I see no reason to be lenient towards some individuals because they feel their punishment was too harsh. For the law to be just it has to apply equally.

[Cymbal]

Boxing should def be illegal on this server I think anyone arguing otherwise is retarded. My only point is a permaban is extreme and I'd like to know the context, are they giving a port with a box? 2 week suspension. Is it to transfer an item? One week suspension. Are they using it for PVE/PVP? Month suspension first offense ban second, something like that.

how about ban urself for obvious boxing

kelgar

kthx BYE

[SamwiseRed]

make them do community service, PL 10 newbs to lvl 20 for each offense

[Ssleeve]

Get rid of exemptions, at least half of the people asking for them are just boxers anyway.

DO IT LIVE

[Morninx]

Questions should be asked.. Perma banning for anything is overboard. There is nothing wrong with a 1 warning system. Not to encourage people to break the rules but it is still just a game.

IMO. Boxing should just be allowed with the population so low ATM. I know it wont happen but I have never seen the big deal with boxing. Someone will need to explain that to me. People complain about buff bots or w.e.. Learn to adapt.. buy a pumice.

[Amuk]

Amelinda knows how to contact me, and we've spoken before.

I'm not trolling her. I'm being 100% serious.

Spamming over and over that cheaters arn't being punished and there's no gm involvement is just as bad as burn it down - ban this fucking moron already.

Every thread degenerates into everyone saying how much Harrison is a complete faggot - you know what bro, maybe you need to fuck off.

[Ssleeve]

Every thread degenerates into everyone saying how much Harrison is a complete faggot - you know what bro, maybe you need to fuck off.

[heartbrand]

how about ban urself for obvious boxing

kelgar

kthx BYE

Is this a joke? I have never heard of this person nor have I ever been in the zone with this person. Thanks.

[fiegi]

Rooted Kelgar for an xp death when he was trying to kill specs the other night while Heartbrand was pvpin in solb at the same time.

Either hes really good, or cymbal aka Fallen's medical condition is kicking in again.

I'll go with the latter this time, it's usually a safe bet.

[Nirgon]

holocaust ban was a 2-week suspension only because they had stolen their strat from another guild that had been doing the same thing for weeks and weeks with no repercussions because of our fault. the fault of the server staff. so we didn't permanently penalize those players.

Come to Maryland, I'll take you out to Morton's for a fine steak dinner.


RMT tho :/?

[Xatava]

perma ban should be PERMA ban. special rules for special people is some extra special bullshit

[inimegalg]

Rooted Kelgar for an xp death when he was trying to kill specs the other night while Heartbrand was pvpin in solb at the same time.

Either hes really good, or cymbal aka Fallen's medical condition is kicking in again.

I'll go with the latter this time, it's usually a safe bet.

chuckster, kelgar = atsuko from ascending dawn.. ring a bell lol

[fiegi]

chuckster, kelgar = atsuko from ascending dawn.. ring a bell lol

ahhhhhhhhh yes

[gnomishfirework]

As long as they get their ip exemption revoked, I see no reason not to allow them access to one account.

Ban them a week or whatever, and that's sufficient punishment. I mean, if they aren't a douche bag id rather have one more ex-boxer than one less player.

It's not like a 2 boxer is trying to cause anyone else problems.

[Ssleeve]

Come to Maryland, I'll take you out to Morton's for a fine steak dinner.


RMT tho :/?

Where j00 at in Maryland, lets get drunk.

[doobiesnizax]

well there needs to be some form of testing to ensure people are actually 2boxing its been said a few times people are banned due to some newb reporting them when someone is afk plvling from the same household or someone has 2 chars from the same household doing a transfer in EC....some people run weird networks that aren't all detected properly by there supposed new software, IE ad-hoc and using laptops and pc's for accesspoints ect
my point being that its a bit harsh to ban people from a server for something as menial as having 2 chars logged in, when there seems to be alot more crap going on in regards to exploiting atm....so u 2box a group and keel a mob, whats the difference if i keel or exp the same mobs solo using a exploit 80% of the server solo's anyways because of the exp penalties some group mates can add. the BS about people not being able to level due to 2boxing is crap pure try finding a group past 2am pst when the server population is 100 and 30 of them are afk in EC

[Ssleeve]

well there needs to be some form of testing to ensure people are actually 2boxing its been said a few times people are banned due to some newb reporting them when someone is afk plvling from the same household or someone has 2 chars from the same household doing a transfer in EC....some people run weird networks that aren't all detected properly by there supposed new software, IE ad-hoc and using laptops and pc's for accesspoints ect
my point being that its a bit harsh to ban people from a server for something as menial as having 2 chars logged in, when there seems to be alot more crap going on in regards to exploiting atm....so u 2box a group and keel a mob, whats the difference if i keel or exp the same mobs solo using a exploit 80% of the server solo's anyways because of the exp penalties some group mates can add. the BS about people not being able to level due to 2boxing is crap pure try finding a group past 2am pst when the server population is 100 and 30 of them are afk in EC

no ones reading that wall of text l2forum

[bigeasy]

I think if somebody with an ip exemption gets caught 2 boxing, the first course of action should be removing the IP exemption + 1-2 week vacation. If the person does not have an IP exemption and is boxing, then they're determined to do so and would believe the action would be a 2-4 week vacation then a perma ban and nothing less

Perma-anything on a server that barely eclipses 100 pop on a busy night is overkill, and detrimental to server's health.

Also let's put things in perspective people, 2 boxing was legal on live as long as you had the money to pay for another subscription. I would not categorize it in the same boat as exploiting or duping for a clear advantage.

[Nirgon]

Where j00 at in Maryland, lets get drunk.

Lil place called nonna your damn bidness.

[doobiesnizax]

sorry ssleeve its more text then you can comprehend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKL_EpnSp8

[Ssleeve]

Lil place called nonna your damn bidness.

I'm between Baltimore and D.C. don't be scurred.

http://www.avforums.com/movies/images/media/9708/capture3.jpg

[Ssleeve]

sorry ssleeve its more text then you can comprehend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKL_EpnSp8

You're dumb if you think anyone read that. I'm just the one who informed you

[quickcheck]

5 ACCOUNTS!

[Seaweedpimp]

Imo if youre caught boxing one day, or one occasion , 1 week susp on both accounts. Second time it happens strip thier bank and ip exemptions.

[Lazortag]

I think punishments are a bit too lenient in general, and lessening the punishment for 2-boxing would be a step in the wrong direction. If it's done only in a few circumstances then the rules are not being applied equally, which is unfair. I just found out that if you're suspended on one account, you can still play on another (that's what Steaks is doing now. He plays on a mage named Chocobo to pass the time while his warrior is suspended). I think this is ridiculous, I may as well put all of my characters on different accounts so that I can basically exploit with impunity on each of them. I mean here you have a person who clearly has bad intentions, he exploited a mob in a really egregious way because he thought he wouldn't get caught, and his "punishment" is that he gets to level up an alt for the next week. This same person does nothing but spam the forums with borderline unreadable posts that bash the staff. He's also repeatedly defended his actions and said that the server is not coded well enough so it's the devs' fault that he exploited. If a person like this is getting a second chance I hate to see which 2-boxers will be given leniency.

[fiegi]

I think punishments are a bit too lenient in general, and lessening the punishment for 2-boxing would be a step in the wrong direction. If it's done only in a few circumstances then the rules are not being applied equally, which is unfair. I just found out that if you're suspended on one account, you can still play on another (that's what Steaks is doing now. He plays on a mage named Chocobo to pass the time while his warrior is suspended). I think this is ridiculous, I may as well put all of my characters on different accounts so that I can basically exploit with impunity on each of them. I mean here you have a person who clearly has bad intentions, he exploited a mob in a really egregious way because he thought he wouldn't get caught, and his "punishment" is that he gets to level up an alt for the next week. This same person does nothing but spam the forums with borderline unreadable posts that bash the staff. He's also repeatedly defended his actions and said that the server is not coded well enough so it's the devs' fault that he exploited. If a person like this is getting a second chance I hate to see which 2-boxers will be given leniency.

Why would you ever level 2 high characters on the same account anways??? Helps in many situations, specially the ones you said above. Same reason people use banks instead of hiding money under their mattress, not for the awsome .0000000% interest, to protect themselves.

[Lazortag]

Why would you ever level 2 high characters on the same account anways??? Helps in many situations, specially the ones you said above. Same reason people use banks instead of hiding money under their mattress, not for the awsome .0000000% interest, to protect themselves.

I don't actually have or plan to have more than one high leveled character on either server, my point is that it's kind of a weird extra punishment for people who don't use multiple accounts, in addition to being far too lenient on people who do use multiple accounts, since a punishment on only one account is basically meaningless when you have several others. To answer your question though, I guess I'd rather not pester the staff about IP exemptions constantly?

[fiegi]

I don't actually have or plan to have more than one high leveled character on either server, my point is that it's kind of a weird extra punishment for people who don't use multiple accounts, in addition to being far too lenient on people who do use multiple accounts, since a punishment on only one account is basically meaningless when you have several others. To answer your question though, I guess I'd rather not pester the staff about IP exemptions constantly?

/agree

[Koogster]

how many times have you been sitting there waiting for a certain class for example cleric and or enchanter knowing full well one of your groupmates or you could play one and get the exp flowing ?
if you want to talk about hurting exp groups end all the high end drama over raid bosses , you cant even get tmo members to group with IB or vd and u cant get vd or ib members to group with tmo so what are you left with hoping your real life friends are online(we all know we play this Bcuz we have no friends)? I think all the people who say 2boxing limits groups are just mad they cant load 2 windows on there dos puters.

[Ssleeve]

how many times have you been sitting there waiting for a certain class for example cleric and or enchanter knowing full well one of your groupmates or you could play one and get the exp flowing ?
if you want to talk about hurting exp groups end all the high end drama over raid bosses , you cant even get tmo members to group with IB or vd and u cant get vd or ib members to group with tmo so what are you left with hoping your real life friends are online(we all know we play this Bcuz we have no friends)? I think all the people who say 2boxing limits groups are just mad they cant load 2 windows on there dos puters.

Blue forums that way ---------->

Now Beat it.

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/210893_o.gif

[fiegi]

how many times have you been sitting there waiting for a certain class for example cleric and or enchanter knowing full well one of your groupmates or you could play one and get the exp flowing ?
if you want to talk about hurting exp groups end all the high end drama over raid bosses , you cant even get tmo members to group with IB or vd and u cant get vd or ib members to group with tmo so what are you left with hoping your real life friends are online(we all know we play this Bcuz we have no friends)? I think all the people who say 2boxing limits groups are just mad they cant load 2 windows on there dos puters.

oh lord

[Koogster]

it effects both servers equally and there is no post for this poll in the blue forums so ill post where i like , and btw were all tired of your played out MJ gifs

[SamwiseRed]

it effects both servers equally and there is no post for this poll in the blue forums so ill post where i like , and btw were all tired of your played out MJ gifs

gtfo off these forums, men are talking.

[Lazortag]

it effects both servers equally and there is no post for this poll in the blue forums so ill post where i like , and btw were all tired of your played out MJ gifs

Speak for yourself, I like the MJ gif's. Keep them coming.

[Ssleeve]

Speak for yourself, I like the MJ gif's. Keep them coming.

http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/12800000/BEAUTIFUL-MICHAEL-michael-jackson-12873676-690-480.gif

[SamwiseRed]

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lst1n9UxDR1qg39ewo1_500.gif

[Koogster]

by men are you talking about your prepubescent self, btw hows gma's basement working out for you there samwise , all your pvp fraps are you sitting there with 6 other people ganking 1 person.

[SamwiseRed]

honored that bloobs watched my first vids

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly9s8xqwbq1r6hffko1_500.gif

[SamwiseRed]

by men are you talking about your prepubescent self, btw hows gma's basement working out for you there samwise , all your pvp fraps are you sitting there with 6 other people ganking 1 person.

btw if you dont like it

http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/alrightthenp1.gif

[Ssleeve]

by men are you talking about your prepubescent self, btw hows gma's basement working out for you there samwise , all your pvp fraps are you sitting there with 6 other people ganking 1 person.

All his posts outside of this thread are blue p99 EC tunnel posts.

Who gave you directions on how to get in here?

[Cymbal]

holocaust ban was a 2-week suspension only because they had stolen their strat from another guild that had been doing the same thing for weeks and weeks with no repercussions because of our fault. the fault of the server staff. so we didn't permanently penalize those players.

kinda offended at the exaggeration here.

your making it sound like we exploited nagafen 100 times

this is not true, willing to let u post logs publicly to prove it.

did we get a free killl when we discovered the bug (and reported it immediately)? i mean u can take that away but it was an uncontested kill we would have beaten anyways

imo Holocaust is the culprit here. They used 18 of their members to pvp at the zone in while 1 person soloed the dragon.

the fact that we constantly have to bend over backwards, like fight nagafen in lair etc. is bullshit. we have been cleanly killing these dragons for the vast majority of our time here on red 99. if you disagree with this fact you are ignorant, bottom line

[Dullah]

As long as they get their ip exemption revoked, I see no reason not to allow them access to one account.

Ban them a week or whatever, and that's sufficient punishment. I mean, if they aren't a douche bag id rather have one more ex-boxer than one less player.

It's not like a 2 boxer is trying to cause anyone else problems.

This.

If someone boxing is doing something that griefs other players, or is in some way engaged in something that exploits or hurts the server, I can see them being permabanned.


Otherwise, suspend them for a couple weeks and revoke their exemption.

The server is virtually dead at this point. People are probably boxing to make up for the lack of groups.

Suspend/Revoke Exemptions. Permaban those who have been warned or been in trouble in the past.

We can't afford to lose anyone people at this point...

[fiegi]

kinda offended at the exaggeration here.

your making it sound like we exploited nagafen 100 times

this is not true, willing to let u post logs publicly to prove it.

did we get a free killl when we discovered the bug (and reported it immediately)? i mean u can take that away but it was an uncontested kill we would have beaten anyways

imo Holocaust is the culprit here. They used 18 of their members to pvp at the zone in while 1 person soloed the dragon.

the fact that we constantly have to bend over backwards, like fight nagafen in lair etc. is bullshit. we have been cleanly killing these dragons for the vast majority of our time here on red 99. if you disagree with this fact you are ignorant, bottom line

made me lol

1 person can solo nagafen? Dragon regen > pally dps

[Cymbal]

ohh so sorry 2 people

[fiegi]

which is it? Geezus christ get your story straight.

[Cymbal]

GEEEEEZUS

[fiegi]

You would be terrible on the witness stand

[Nirgon]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBwfvNtM0v-xrE7-_XkEar-TXYmM3wHyNtBW4SQEH9w9EHGAg7L99NIUcBtA

[fiegi]

Fallen would fall asleep on the witness stand, then contradict himself about 14 different times upon waking up

[Harrison]

which is it? Geezus christ get your story straight.

Fiegi, sorry, I forget sometimes.

Was it your guild (Holocaust) that was caught exploiting Nagafen too?

Why should anyone listen to what you, or anyone in your guild caught exploiting, have to say?

[Diggles]

Fiegi, sorry, I forget sometimes.

Was it your guild (Holocaust) that was caught exploiting Nagafen too?

Why should anyone listen to what you, or anyone in your guild caught exploiting, have to say?

http://i.imgur.com/A0Z2F.jpg this is coming from the guy who was in a guild with one of the most infamous people on blue

Why should anyone listen to what you, or anyone who associated with Abacab, have to say?

[fiegi]

fuk stop quoting that deli meat slicer

[The Neck Beard]

Allow boxing. It's a red pvp server. From experiences nearly a decade ago, it's almost impossible to play 2-3 characters in a pvp environment effectively. Any competent player will realize a boxer is playing only 1 character 'really' in an engagement.

Furthermore, if someone can manage to 2-3 box in a raid vs raid, group vs group, and defend against a gank......you'd have to tip your hat to that individual.

[Ssleeve]

Allow boxing.

Not going to happen.

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/24700000/michael-gifs-michael-jackson-24753932-333-258.gif

[Harrison]

http://i.imgur.com/A0Z2F.jpg this is coming from the guy who was in a guild with one of the most infamous people on blue

Why should anyone listen to what you, or anyone who associated with Abacab, have to say?

Lol abacab wasn't in my guild on blue, he was permabanned

You're WAY too new to know shit about blue, kid.

[Silikten]

I believe if caught 2-boxing it should scale to the crime and amount of "strikes" on said account. First offense, 1 week. Second, 1 month. Etc. If the account has already been 1 week susp. then it bumps to 1 month.

[Diggles]

was talking about grindcore you fucking idiot

[Diggles]

guy who was in a guild (grindcore)

most infamous people on blue (Abacab)

keep up on your reading comprehension

[Rutaq]

Allow boxing. It's a red pvp server. From experiences nearly a decade ago, it's almost impossible to play 2-3 characters in a pvp environment effectively. Any competent player will realize a boxer is playing only 1 character 'really' in an engagement.

Furthermore, if someone can manage to 2-3 box in a raid vs raid, group vs group, and defend against a gank......you'd have to tip your hat to that individual.

2 Boxing is lame, it will just raise the minimum requirements for ALL players.

Boxing will put the competent character at a disadvantage even with just a spam heal marco running.

Even with simple macro programs like Auto-It, you can automate the spells for simple healing and focus firing of nukes.

[Amelinda]

perma ban should be PERMA ban. special rules for special people is some extra special bullshit

This is my personal opinion :P

[heartbrand]

kinda surprised to see the poll this in favor of leniency, but I guess given the state of server pop should be expected

[Amelinda]

ITT: Giegue solves a VERY important mystery for me. Also: People guilty of 2-boxing.

I think punishments are a bit too lenient in general, and lessening the punishment for 2-boxing would be a step in the wrong direction. If it's done only in a few circumstances then the rules are not being applied equally, which is unfair. I just found out that if you're suspended on one account, you can still play on another (

Oh don't worry. People are confused. I am not looking for suggestions on whether or not to reduce the boxing penalty at all. I really only wanted to know how people would feel if leniancy was shown to other players. Because those are actually two excuses i've had this week. Both players knew it was wrong but figured they'd do it anyway.

Allow boxing..

Never. That is not something we will ever allow on red or blue. If you absolutely HAVE to box then go to THF or ez server.

[Nizzarr]

With the current exp bonus, id be looking even more for boxers.

Ban them.

[Hovis]

i personally know people who have been banned for 2boxing when it isnt the one persons fault.. when u trust a friend or guildy with your info because they need to use your toon for something -- they didnt know they would be boxed. in my honest opinion the person that wasnt boxing shouldn't be banned. (although his toon was used in boxing - it was not him that did the crime)

[Palemoon]

With the current exp bonus, id be looking even more for boxers.

Ban them.


And the ones you busted this week knew it was wrong but did it anyways? double ban them.

[Palemoon]

i personally know people who have been banned for 2boxing when it isnt the one persons fault.. when u trust a friend or guildy with your info because they need to use your toon for something -- they didnt know they would be boxed. in my honest opinion the person that wasnt boxing shouldn't be banned. (although his toon was used in boxing - it was not him that did the crime)

dont share info then

[Rutaq]

With the current exp bonus, id be looking even more for boxers.

Ban them.

^

[bigeasy]

the point of this thread is not to discuss boxing, it's illegal on this server and that's been discussed many times over. rather it's a poll to see how the community would feel (as a new community) seeing as red99 is only 3-4 months old, if people that have been perma banned for this would receive one time leniency and be able to access their accounts again.

i dont think its unreasonable, i couldn't say how many people were affected by this, but with the current state of the pop any negative to our playerbase is bad. i say give them their shot, and watch them closely, if they're stupid enough to do it again, ban for life.

[SamwiseRed]

nah people knew what would happen. they just playin stupid. ban them or invite a shitload more boxers to the community. as for the people who didnt know their account info would be used for boxing, sorry maang sharing info comes with a risk and you/they took it.

[Palemoon]

ban them or invite a shitload more boxers to the community.


This

[Beastro]

How would you feel if I gave someone a second chance for one of the following reasons:

"I knew it was against the rules but didn't realize you would PERMA BAN the accounts. I figured you'd just suspend me."

"I knew it was against the rules but i feel the punishment is too harsh."


How bouts you guys treat other violations like exploiting/hacking/general dickishness more like this and bring in a 2 box suspension to 1 month (or give the person the option as to which account they'd like perma banned) and a second violation be a perma ban.

I can understand why you guys crack down hard on it, just as I recognize that it's an easier thing to crack down on as oppose to all the subjective crap around hacking accusations and the usual PvP squabbling over training and other shit, but this is one of the least harmful violations any server can have.

Start working hard against the things that actually depopulate servers, the things that this distilled group of scum PvPers are infamous for or everything else will be window dressing.

VZTZ and every other PvP emu server I've played on didn't die because of two boxing, it died because of rampant hacking and people letting their competitive nature and penchant for griefing drive everyone else off the server, including themselves (once it was only them left), and create a general corrosive atmosphere that all but they can tolerate.

[Hovis]

How bouts you guys treat other violations like exploiting/hacking/general dickishness more like this and bring in a 2 box suspension to 1 month (or give the person the option as to which account they'd like perma banned) and a second violation be a perma ban.

I can understand why you guys crack down hard on it, just as I recognize that it's an easier thing to crack down on as oppose to all the subjective crap around hacking accusations and the usual PvP squabbling over training and other shit, but this is one of the least harmful violations any server can have.

Start working hard against the things that actually depopulate servers, the things that this distilled group of scum PvPers are infamous for or everything else will be window dressing.

VZTZ and no other PvP emu server I've played on didn't die because of two boxing, it died because of rampant hacking and people letting their competitive nature and penchant for griefing drive everyone else off the server, including themselves (once it was only them left), and creative a general corrosive atmosphere that all but they can tolerate.

A++ post sir

[Nirgon]

With the current exp bonus, id be looking even more for boxers.

Ban them.

No mercy for them imo, agree.

I could be boxing Bundy while farming money and shit.

So I get caught after 2 weeks? Big deal, I get a week off and he's got +2lvls.

BAN.

[SamwiseRed]

Amelinda your hard stance you have taken lately will be a pile of mash potatoes if you go easy on these dirtys.
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzj083sSxB1qg39ewo1_500.gif

[Bruno]

Back when I was a noob on this server (March 2010) I had two of my accounts banned by Secrets for two boxing. At the time I didn't realize how serious the server was about it, but I'm fully aware now, given the accounts haven't been unbanned for going on 2 years. As much as I now accept and respect the server's rules, I feel boxing is enforced way harder than other offenses such as mq, exploiting, and ninja looting, and there's something wrong with that in my mind.

[Nirgon]

Depends what you're 2 boxing..

Give me a chanter + cleric in howling stones.

[CallnOutTheNubs]

Im with the three strike rule personally,

1st time 1-2week suspend
2nd time 1month
3rd perma ban

Sadly I know of afew that are on there 5-6ths and they still play.

This is a total bullshit slap to are faces, the people who play legit everyday.

Perun should be perma banned and i know im not alone on this one.
everday i see this kid ingame makes me feel like the gms here are complete and utter idoits or theres some bribing going on behind the scenes.

Being a guild leader should not buy you a free pass to exploit/MQ/train/ninjaloot ect ect ect.

[Nirgon]

How about read the rules and take them seriously?

Who's getting slapped in the face when people post for an IP exemption then do this?

You can try to insult me, my friends or my guild, but you will not make an attack on the Queen.

http://i40.tinypic.com/b5puu1.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zIm1jXslLI

[SamwiseRed]

Im with the three strike rule personally,

1st time 1-2week suspend
2nd time 1month
3rd perma ban

Sadly I know of afew that are on there 5-6ths and they still play.

This is a total bullshit slap to are faces, the people who play legit everyday.

Perun should be perma banned and i know im not alone on this one.
everday i see this kid ingame makes me feel like the gms here are complete and utter idoits or theres some bribing going on behind the scenes.

Being a guild leader should not buy you a free pass to exploit/MQ/train/ninjaloot ect ect ect.

no idea who the fuck Perun is but sounds like a scrub. BAN THEM STRAIGHT TO HELL AMELINDA

Reasoning: I barely use a custom UI and boxing/exploiting ruins my immersion

[Nirgon]

2 boxing punishment = You go to hell, you go to hell and you die.


The "worst" thing that happens is examples are made.

Get this through your fucking heads, DON'T DO IT.

[SamwiseRed]

Ban the offenders entire subnet. If one person in a city 2 boxes, you can be god damned sure somebody else there does too.

[bamzal]

2 boxers should perish !!!!

[Amelinda]

Comment to the individual who feels it's not fair to the person who shares his account info and gets his account banned.

When I was a player I was friends with 2 guys on the blue server. We all had each other's info. Till the day i saw one of the guys boxing our druid friend's account. I called our druid friend and his PW and my pw changed that night.

When you give your password to someone that makes you ultimately responsible for their actions while using your character. So that means if you share your info with someone and he ninja loots a corpse. Your character will probably eat a ban on your account and the person who was playing the character will eat a ban on their main.

So if you give your password to Nirgon and he chooses to 2-box your character then i catch him....i'm going to ban both accounts. and I hear it all. believe me. "But it wasn't my choice to 2-box. I did not CHOOSE to do this." You made your choice. You gave your account information to someone and s/he fucked you over.

I can tell you that nirgon is right. 100%. Each IP exemption takes me probably 3 minutes of time to do (Or more. Depending on how many accounts I am looking at) So I did 200 IP exemptions last week over the course of 2 evenings. Inevitably at least 2 of those accounts are going to show up being boxed. Because people as a rule are greedy and they think i'm stupid.

When you 2-box I see it as an incredible slap to the face anyway. But if you 2-box on an ip-exemption that *I* Granted then I see it as you basically spitting in my face then back handing me. I take it as a serious sign of lack of respect for the server staff and the work that we do here. If you 2-box on an ip exemption here then I feel that you obviously do not respect me, the server rules or the time and effort that we put forth to bring you the server.

That is exactly how i see it.

Some people feel this is too harsh. I think honestly the ones who feel it is too harsh are the ones who either (A) want to 2-box, (B) already secretly 2-box and haven't been caught yet or (C) have been busted 2-boxing.

and yes. I am this harsh on MQ and exploiting. but that's not what this thread is about.

[Nirgon]

^ Give your account to Ser Nirgon for demonstration of above.

This is great and it removes what idiots think are actually fucking grey areas here!

[bigeasy]

Comment to the individual who feels it's not fair to the person who shares his account info and gets his account banned.

When I was a player I was friends with 2 guys on the blue server. We all had each other's info. Till the day i saw one of the guys boxing our druid friend's account. I called our druid friend and his PW and my pw changed that night.

When you give your password to someone that makes you ultimately responsible for their actions while using your character. So that means if you share your info with someone and he ninja loots a corpse. Your character will probably eat a ban on your account and the person who was playing the character will eat a ban on their main.

So if you give your password to Nirgon and he chooses to 2-box your character then i catch him....i'm going to ban both accounts. and I hear it all. believe me. "But it wasn't my choice to 2-box. I did not CHOOSE to do this." You made your choice. You gave your account information to someone and s/he fucked you over.

I can tell you that nirgon is right. 100%. Each IP exemption takes me probably 3 minutes of time to do (Or more. Depending on how many accounts I am looking at) So I did 200 IP exemptions last week over the course of 2 evenings. Inevitably at least 2 of those accounts are going to show up being boxed. Because people as a rule are greedy and they think i'm stupid.

When you 2-box I see it as an incredible slap to the face anyway. But if you 2-box on an ip-exemption that *I* Granted then I see it as you basically spitting in my face then back handing me. I take it as a serious sign of lack of respect for the server staff and the work that we do here. If you 2-box on an ip exemption here then I feel that you obviously do not respect me, the server rules or the time and effort that we put forth to bring you the server.

That is exactly how i see it.

Some people feel this is too harsh. I think honestly the ones who feel it is too harsh are the ones who either (A) want to 2-box, (B) already secretly 2-box and haven't been caught yet or (C) have been busted 2-boxing.

and yes. I am this harsh on MQ and exploiting. but that's not what this thread is about.

seems to me that the majority of the people that voted think the penalty on a first time offense is too harsh, but amelinda has clearly made her feelings clear on this thread several times, so the purpose of the poll is over my head since her feelings are the only one that counts as the server admin?

i seen stories in this thread about people being banned for 2 years for boxing but on various instances seen multiple players caught for exploiting and other cheats unbanned or slapped on the wrist with a suspension. clearly both are not treated the same.

confused. integrity of the server is important, but there seems to be quite a range of punishment here. there is no scaling, its either you get suspended for a week, or you get perma banned instantly without a suspension. perma banning accounts that have never been suspended is ludicrous, especially considering the dwindling population on this server.

[bounky37]

Comment to the individual who feels it's not fair to the person who shares his account info and gets his account banned.

When I was a player I was friends with 2 guys on the blue server. We all had each other's info. Till the day i saw one of the guys boxing our druid friend's account. I called our druid friend and his PW and my pw changed that night.

That is exactly how i see it.


Not trying to take things out of context with this quote, the bolded part seemed like it was for your entire post.

Now when it comes to the person who was dual boxing your friend, you didn't do the right thing and report the dual boxer to get both accounts banned. Why would you go against the rules that you now strictly follow? At the time did they seem harsh for this situation?

My point being that in your own personal situation you could see that both accounts didn't deserve a ban. You do say that you were a player at the time so I get that you couldn't do it yourself, but the fact stays that in your personal situation with someone dual boxing someone you felt that a ban was not warranted.

[Bruno]

i seen stories in this thread about people being banned for 2 years for boxing but on various instances seen multiple players caught for exploiting and other cheats unbanned or slapped on the wrist with a suspension. clearly both are not treated the same.

/confused

That's how I feel. I'm not really counting on my accounts ever being unbanned, seeing as it's been that long, but watching all of these people get leniency for what I consider significantly worse offenses is kind of annoying. Especially since besides the occasionally forum trolling, I help out the community in game and have donated to the server. These other people are exploiting, using MQ, training, ninja looting, and they received a de-level or weeks suspension. My feeling is if the admins are going to be strict on this policy, be strict across the board.

[bigeasy]

only in a game is it possible for a rule to be so strictly imposed and enforced upon on a community's opinion that is split half / half on

id like to see the government try to impose a new law that has a 50/50 split and see how well that goes over

[Bruno]

only in a game is it possible for a rule to be so strictly imposed and enforced upon on a community's opinion that is split half / half on

id like to see the government try to impose a new law that has a 50/50 split and see how well that goes over

Hehe well this isn't exactly a democracy by any means, but the forums are here to voice reasonable opinions. If they want to take them into account or just tell us to go fuck ourselves, that's their right. We have no rights here.

[Amelinda]

Here is a loose breakdown of punishments. but each punishment is individual and we don't want to give you a "get out of jail free" card. (IE: I am not going to give you tons of details so you know what to tell me to get out of punishments in the future. that would be stupid)

Training: 1st offense is usually 3 days, 2nd 7-10 days, 3rd ban
*note* I have to see the train or have an undeniable fraps. but to ban i'm pretty much gonna need to see the train.
Exploiting pathing: 1st offense is generally 7 days.
Duping plat or items: permaban
Macroquest or ShowEQ usage: Permaban
other hacking: permaban

[Szeth]

Amelinda very serious question. If I give my account info to someone, who then without my permission gives it to a third party without my knowledge.... and the third party does something against the rules...

Should I still be punished?

Not that this happened...

[Slave]

"For children are innocent and love justice, while most of us are wicked and naturally prefer mercy."

you didn't do the right thing and report the dual boxer to get both accounts banned. Why would you go against the rules that you now strictly follow? At the time did they seem harsh for this situation?

My point being that in your own personal situation you could see that both accounts didn't deserve a ban. You do say that you were a player at the time so I get that you couldn't do it yourself, but the fact stays that in your personal situation with someone dual boxing someone you felt that a ban was not warranted.

I am personally against harsh punishments for dual-boxing (especially in a non-experiencing or camping capacity) because of the way that far more egregious violations of MQ hax and exploits have been handled on this server.

In the example above, I would have been for a ban. Sharing account information is not something that should be protected this way, in my opinion. Amelinda herself did not properly report the problem in this situation, yet she says she'd love to permaban anyone caught transferring an item to an alt.

The lack of consistency and obvious favoritism on P99 is really beginning to come to the forefront and cause a lot of unnecessary drama. It almost feels like we're going to need new blood at the upper levels soon to get the kind of transparency and justice that all the gamers who have devoted their time here in good faith deserve.

[bigeasy]

"For children are innocent and love justice, while most of us are wicked and naturally prefer mercy."



I am personally against harsh punishments for dual-boxing (especially in a non-experiencing or camping capacity) because of the way that far more egregious violations of MQ hax and exploits have been handled on this server.

In the example above, I would have been for a ban. Sharing account information is not something that should be protected this way, in my opinion. Amelinda herself did not properly report the problem in this situation, yet she says she'd love to permaban anyone caught transferring an item to an alt.

The lack of consistency and obvious favoritism on P99 is really beginning to come to the forefront and cause a lot of unnecessary drama. It almost feels like we're going to need new blood at the upper levels soon to get the kind of transparency and justice that all the gamers who have devoted their time here in good faith deserve.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=46654

they say they perma ban over showeq/macroquest but they gave hundreds of people a get out of jail free card for using this very exact thing, why? because it affected a large amount of the population

so to that i say, red 99 barely has over 100 peak, not sure how many accounts you popped for dual boxing, but if it's double digits, i think applying the same kind of leniency is in order.

[Silentone]

Comment to the individual who feels it's not fair to the person who shares his account info and gets his account banned.

When I was a player I was friends with 2 guys on the blue server. We all had each other's info. Till the day i saw one of the guys boxing our druid friend's account. I called our druid friend and his PW and my pw changed that night.

When you give your password to someone that makes you ultimately responsible for their actions while using your character. So that means if you share your info with someone and he ninja loots a corpse. Your character will probably eat a ban on your account and the person who was playing the character will eat a ban on their main.
So if you give your password to Nirgon and he chooses to 2-box your character then i catch him....i'm going to ban both accounts. and I hear it all. believe me. "But it wasn't my choice to 2-box. I did not CHOOSE to do this." You made your choice. You gave your account information to someone and s/he fucked you over.

I can tell you that nirgon is right. 100%. Each IP exemption takes me probably 3 minutes of time to do (Or more. Depending on how many accounts I am looking at) So I did 200 IP exemptions last week over the course of 2 evenings. Inevitably at least 2 of those accounts are going to show up being boxed. Because people as a rule are greedy and they think i'm stupid.

When you 2-box I see it as an incredible slap to the face anyway. But if you 2-box on an ip-exemption that *I* Granted then I see it as you basically spitting in my face then back handing me. I take it as a serious sign of lack of respect for the server staff and the work that we do here. If you 2-box on an ip exemption here then I feel that you obviously do not respect me, the server rules or the time and effort that we put forth to bring you the server.

That is exactly how i see it.

Some people feel this is too harsh. I think honestly the ones who feel it is too harsh are the ones who either (A) want to 2-box, (B) already secretly 2-box and haven't been caught yet or (C) have been busted 2-boxing.

and yes. I am this harsh on MQ and exploiting. but that's not what this thread is about.

So, Perun will suffer the same penalty as the person who ninja looted the RageFire cleric epic , right Amelinda?

i'm going to pretend that you didn't ask this in this thread.

[Bruno]

Here is a loose breakdown of punishments. but each punishment is individual and we don't want to give you a "get out of jail free" card. (IE: I am not going to give you tons of details so you know what to tell me to get out of punishments in the future. that would be stupid)

Training: 1st offense is usually 3 days, 2nd 7-10 days, 3rd ban
*note* I have to see the train or have an undeniable fraps. but to ban i'm pretty much gonna need to see the train.
Exploiting pathing: 1st offense is generally 7 days.
Duping plat or items: permaban
Macroquest or ShowEQ usage: Permaban
other hacking: permaban

These must be new punishments because I know of some people on my friend's list that had some leveling up to do from their de-level from the mq de-level wave that went through. I remember specifically asking them both if they were level 60 and they both said yes and admitted to being de-leveled for using mq on blue. At any rate, I hope it's being enforced now with the above punishments.

[Amelinda]

I ratted my friend out to my other friend after 5 minutes of boxing in december of 2010. I became a guide on April 15, 2011. I didn't even really know the rules beyond knowing that boxing wasn't allowed.

Ideally i should have turned my friend in. and honestly - if you warn your friend for being a dumbass and boxing - more powre to you. I don't LIKE to ban people. I do not enjoy it. It generates a fuck ton of annoyance in my life and i don't need it. Last night I missed most of "The Walking Dead" because i had two people aggravating me about their fucking boxing-bans. and it wasn't even "oh. but amelinda. i didn't box i swear!" it was "I know i boxed but i feel like your punishment is too harsh." and "Can't you unban me? why can't you unban me? please unban me."

All i care about is that people don't box on the server. I don't care if i ban them or if you tell them to behave and they do it. Fact of the matter is there is always some jackass who thinks he's better than everyone else. Someone who will just keep doing what he's doing even if you bust him.

and undrea - can you please tell me who gets favoritism from me? because i'm pretty sure on p99 both IB and TMO hate me right now.

[Nirgon]

So, Perun will suffer the same penalty as the person who ninja looted the RageFire cleric epic , right Amelinda?

Let me help you.

YOUR GUILD ISNT SUPPOSED TO KNOW WHO PLAYS HERE.

ALSO


GO TO THE BLUE RNF


-THANKS,
SER NIRGON

[Szeth]

I have nothing but love for you.

[SamwiseRed]

P99 a bunch of sissy-eyed tweety birds . Amelinda for the love of raptor Jesus quit suspending exploiters/ boxers and ban the shit out of them. Already 1/3rd of server in one guild no need to further fuck the minority

[Silentone]

and undrea - can you please tell me who gets favoritism from me? because i'm pretty sure on p99 both IB and TMO hate me right now.

Perun not banned for looting server first wizard epic off of CT, in order to hold you accountable for petitions. Terroism on the server at its best

and i dont hate you for the raid suspension, if you felt it was just then so be it.

[Silentone]

Let me help you.

YOUR GUILD ISNT SUPPOSED TO KNOW WHO PLAYS HERE.

ALSO


GO TO THE BLUE RNF


-THANKS,
SER NIRGON

for someone who cries for the servers health and more people to play you sure have a negative attitude, im only curious why the punishments arent even.

PS i do play on red..., and you loging in twice a month doesnt make u part of the community.

[Nirgon]

So your guild does know who plays here.

OK, I can't keep your made up shit straight. Sorry!

[Oadina]

I think perma-banning for *anything* on this particular server is way harsh. I can't help but to wonder, are you, (you being devs, guides, other players),
Are you looking for the current player base to respect the current rules, or do you really just want them gone, for good?

[Silentone]

So your guild does know who plays here.

OK, I can't keep your made up shit straight. Sorry!

You seem mad about an unrelated post, im sorry about that.

[Amelinda]

These must be new punishments because I know of some people on my friend's list that had some leveling up to do from their de-level from the mq de-level wave that went through. I remember specifically asking them both if they were level 60 and they both said yes and admitted to being de-leveled for using mq on blue. At any rate, I hope it's being enforced now with the above punishments.

was was stated at the time (but people obviously didn't bother reading) that was a ONE TIME lessening of the punishment.

[SamwiseRed]

for someone who cries for the servers health and more people to play you sure have a negative attitude, im only curious why the punishments arent even.

PS i do play on red..., and you loging in twice a month doesnt make u part of the community.

Your guild has the smell of puss and rmt all over gtfo out of our forums

[Ssleeve]

Let me help you.

YOUR GUILD ISNT SUPPOSED TO KNOW WHO PLAYS HERE.

ALSO


GO TO THE BLUE RNF


-THANKS,
SER NIRGON

[Ssleeve]

I think perma-banning for *anything* on this particular server is way harsh. I can't help but to wonder, are you, (you being devs, guides, other players),
Are you looking for the current player base to respect the current rules, or do you really just want them gone, for good?

Sounds like a 2-boxer, perma ban inc.

[SamwiseRed]

My computer desk consists of 2 boxes and a milk crate. Permaban me. I am not drinking at Applebee's

[Supreme]

Since training and other douchbagry is allowed/suspension i think two-boxing should only be a suspension.

[Ssleeve]

Y'all soft on 2-boxing because y'all doing it.

[Zereh]

Whining, crying, rule-lawyering in the right ear(s) has been repeatedly proven to be quite productive; if you're tired of hearing it, quit rewarding people for doing so.

Ambiguity on rules leads to fucked up server situations. See Blue if you've any questions about how well waffling on the "rules" (or inconsistency in enforcing them) works out for the overall health of a server.

[SamwiseRed]

Coming from A guild who boxes on raids, I see y u take that stance

[Knuckle]

Whining, crying, rule-lawyering in the right ear(s) has been repeatedly proven to be quite productive; if you're tired of hearing it, quit rewarding people for doing so.

Ambiguity on rules leads to fucked up server situations. See Blue if you've any questions about how well waffling on the "rules" (or inconsistency in enforcing them) works out for the overall health of a server.

whoa look at that angry red eye, are you playing on red99?

[Nirgon]

Since training and other douchbagry is allowed/suspension i think two-boxing should only be a suspension.

Advocating gentler enforcement of rules.... shocker!


But seriously,

I think RMTing should also be rewarded for spurring the in game economy.

http://i40.tinypic.com/10ynss3.jpg

[Farvinpop]

Pieces of shit who break the rules should be PERMABANNED. No acceptions for people who feel 'really sorry'. Some of us have never exploited or broken the rules ONCE, why the hell would you let other people get away with it?

[Nirgon]

^ thanks!

[Harrison]

There is zero reason to be lenient on people who knowingly break the rules. They knew them coming in. They chose to break them.

[CallnOutTheNubs]

was was stated at the time (but people obviously didn't bother reading) that was a ONE TIME lessening of the punishment.

I must say, Amelinda i think your new way of thinking is great and what this server needs dont let anyone tell you different.

But then it always comes back to "Perun"

This guy has been caught using MQ/Training raids/ and now recently Ninja looting a epic 1st does this not = a perma ban already?

Love how the gms are finally stepping up to enforce there rules but knowning this peice of shit is still around and doing these things is beyond me.
And it really does show that you guys dont enforce rules to these "special people" it seems

When i think about exploiters/cheaters/ninja looters Perun is the first person that comes to my mind that has done it and gotten away with it EVERY GODDANM time.

Is he sucking rogean off or something im missing??
And rogean tells you not to punish his boyfriend?

[Szeth]

^^ Y so anon?

[CallnOutTheNubs]

Pieces of shit who break the rules should be PERMABANNED. No acceptions for people who feel 'really sorry'. Some of us have never exploited or broken the rules ONCE, why the hell would you let other people get away with it?

I feel the same way.

[SamwiseRed]

amelinda should do a few lines of coke and just go on a ban hammering spree. I hope im first to take the plunge

[LizardNecro]

First of all, let me say that I'm a big proponent of the no boxing rule. I'll also say that I don't play on red, only on blue 99. I agree with the people in the thread saying that a 1 week suspension doesn't really stop people from boxing, as the xp gain they get is worth it.

One thing I considered was a doubling penalty. The suspension time could double every time.

1st offense: 2 week suspension
2nd offense: 4 week suspension
3rd offense: 8 week suspension
etc.

The advantage of this system is that it gives a grace period for people that really didn't know/ are very sorry / had a friend do it, etc. That person takes a stiff but not unbearable punishment and can keep playing. Another advantage is that is stops the serial boxers who knowingly try to get around the rules, because the penalty quickly escalates to extremely severe.

This system attempts to cut slack for one time offenders, while getting rid of people that make a habit out of it.

Thoughts?

[Ssleeve]

no you're a faggot and we need to permanently ban the user and his entire subnet. One cheater in a city, they're all fucking cheaters. Scorched earth tbqh.

^

He gets it. Y'all are two-boxing like assholes and it's obvious from these opinions.

It's hard to catch someone 2-boxing due to limited staff, so if you do get caught you were most likely doing it really often and very obviously.

Just ban them if they did it enough to get caught they were doing it too much, we don't have the staff to monitor these people after each suspension to make sure they aren't doing it again.

http://cdn.pimpmyspace.org/media/pms/c/j4/49/9x/314uon6.gif

[Krissdu64]

So, Perun will suffer the same penalty as the person who ninja looted the RageFire cleric epic , right Amelinda?

i'm going to pretend that you didn't ask this in this thread.

[Ssleeve]

Take your faggy bluebie Perun complaints to your RnF where it belongs.

Here Perun woulda been dead.

Goodbye

[Krissdu64]

i'm not talking to you.

[Mrcurtloco]

Last night I missed most of "The Walking Dead" because i had two people aggravating me about their fucking boxing-bans.

well they catch up to em half a mile down the road and slit his throat, it was a good one.

[SamwiseRed]

Amelinda is not a cokehead to trying to catch all you bastards is impossible. once caught ban ban ban ban ban. theyll re-roll cuz we all addicts so dont worry about pop dropping.
http://msfstat.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/carlton-dancing-gif.gif

[Ssleeve]

i'm not talking to you.

Then PM it, quit shitting up our threads whining about a player from a different server.

Seen this random bluebs name in our threads too often.

[SamwiseRed]

"What!? No perma ban on boxing? Interesting...."

http://i46.tinypic.com/30catrk.jpg

[Lulz Sect]

http://cdn.pimpmyspace.org/media/pms/c/j4/49/9x/314uon6.gif

[Gwindor]

If nick Coats aka Rich girl is running a whole RMT website and is not banned i dnt see why 2 boxers get banned lol...kinda weird

[SamwiseRed]

If nick Coats aka Rich girl is running a whole RMT website and is not banned i dnt see why 2 boxers get banned lol...kinda weird

link so i can fling poo at it.

[Gwindor]

http://project1999rmt.com/portal.php?sid=51edc741c45ec1511520f3d51a667e64

thread will prolly be locked and us banned now tho...richgirl got this shit on LOCK son...

[Harrison]

Site is a troll site. Real RMT done in secret not openly.

Leaving a trail is fucking stupid.

[Gwindor]

nah dude nah........100% works...try it out for yourself if you dont beileve it ..you might get banned but "plat lord" (richgirl) wont

[SamwiseRed]

lol at newest member list

troriste 20 Feb

[SamwiseRed]

troll or stupid lol

http://project1999rmt.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=231

[Harrison]

It's a troll.

No one is dumb enough to register with their name ingame on the forums that the staff are aware of that "supposedly" sells RMT for their servers.

I can just imagine how witty the little kid is who registered as someone they dislike thinking, "LOL I AM SO SMERT Y0 THEY NEVER NO"

[purest]

obese deli slicer cares a lot about a server he's too scared to play on

[Giovanni]

I think it would be much more entertaining if the following happened to your character:

1) You can no longer go anon.
2) You lose an entire level each time you die in pvp.
3) Your toon is permanently drunk.

Let loose the bounty hunters!

[Nirgon]

You have to wear a Nihilum tag

[Vermouth]

I think perma bans are harsh but people should be suspended for atleast a month for it.

[Koogster]

so question why is 2-boxing such a horrible offense? your not hurting anyone your not exploiting , your not hacking, your not duping your not training your not ninja looting so why the is it so bad ? lets hear some real reasons other then the pointless argument that it inhibits groups because it doesn't and we all know it so why its so terrible ?

[Amelinda]

If you have proof of someone RMTing please please please post it in petition/exploits forum. Soon as i get another guide - RMTers i'm coming for you :) don't worry. you'll ge tyour turn.

[Ssleeve]

If you have proof of someone RMTing please please please post it in petition/exploits forum. Soon as i get another guide - RMTers i'm coming for you :) don't worry. you'll ge tyour turn.

http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/79397_o.gif

[SamwiseRed]

i applied to be a guide as well but honestly I think being a guide on live screwed that to hell, we didnt handle much but at least we had some fun :)

[SamwiseRed]

If you have proof of someone RMTing please please please post it in petition/exploits forum. Soon as i get another guide - RMTers i'm coming for you :) don't worry. you'll ge tyour turn.

http://comingforyou.ytmnd.com/
http://comingforyou.ytmnd.com/
http://comingforyou.ytmnd.com/
http://comingforyou.ytmnd.com/
http://comingforyou.ytmnd.com/
http://comingforyou.ytmnd.com/

[SamwiseRed]

RMTers (Nihilum), IM COMIN FOR U N*GGA

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/661659_o.gif

[Cfullard]

As someone who gave the fuck up on this server due to hackers / exploiters lemme put my 2 cents in. If you exploit, then you exploit. Doing it once doesn't make it any better, you cheated and thus deserve to GTFO the server. That's like saying Oh I only got fucked in the ass once, that doesn't mean i'm gay. The fuck it don't.

Second, if you two box, then guess what? You broke the rules. Fucking servers got a rules list, and if your school didn't give you a good enough education to read that shit, i'm sure you can pay someone to skype it to you.

Some of you people are about as dumb as a skinhead in a NAACP meeting.

Perma ban boxxers, MQ users, and exploiters. Garbage stays out. I might come back if this all gets un-fucked but i'm not holding my breath.

[Nirgon]

2 boxers should perish !!!!

2 boxers shouldn't get fingered.

They need to get fucked.

[fishingme]

It's ridiculous to ban any person for 2boxing until others whom were caught cheating are banned (i.e the 365 accounts that were using MQ.) Until that happens there really isn't any room to say who should and shouldn't be banned. (waiting for Secrets to post)

[Autotune]

It's ridiculous to ban any person for 2boxing until others whom were caught cheating are banned (i.e the 365 accounts that were using MQ.) Until that happens there really isn't any room to say who should and shouldn't be banned. (waiting for Secrets to post)

fucking glass all their accounts/characters and they will

A) stop cheating/boxing/breaking rules

B) stop playing p99

C) Kill themselves (all of the above)

[Beastro]

Im with the three strike rule personally,

1st time 1-2week suspend
2nd time 1month
3rd perma ban

This community is beyond three strikes.

You fuck up once, you get a long suspension, you fuck up twice and you start over.

At I think the best thing for Emu PvP right now is for it to die and hibernate for a few years so as many of the utter trash move on. It'll also allow the taint that surrounds every PvP server and makes it avoided by most nostalgia seekers to disperse so they won't immediately be deterred by the trash.

I don't know what the hell it is, but there seems to be a tight core of assholes that just drift from server to server and seek to burn it down and both complain when they die and take perverse pleasure in seeing them ruined.

I mean as it is, this community is like the SZ Jihad chain of boards that were funny to read for a short while, then become oddly interesting because of all the demented and vicious personalities tear at one another to becoming stall and a bore because every second thread and every second word in every thread was n*gger as if the taboo around that word still made it funny to say.

It's hardly surprising that several SZ Jihad personalities have been active in Emu-dom all these years.

What this community needs is no longer banning, but ostracism. You don't simply lose your account and start over, you get prevented from ever playing on the server again.

The novelty of that is that is doesn't have to be an absolute barrier because if they come back hiding their identity they either get had in time and shit canned or they're forced to cut the crap, fly under the radar and lose the most precious thing they have: their EQ-personality/schitck. They either give it up to get their nostalgia fix or they play account Sisyphus over and over once they get discovered.

The nice thing about that is they either act properly or they finally stop playing this fucking game and remove one more person that has been driving countless others away for years.

[Zereh]

This community is beyond three strikes.

You fuck up once, you get a long suspension, you fuck up twice and you start over.

At I think the best thing for Emu PvP right now is for it to die and hibernate for a few years so as many of the utter trash move on. It'll also allow the taint that surrounds every PvP server and makes it avoided by most nostalgia seekers to disperse so they won't immediately be deterred by the trash.

I don't know what the hell it is, but there seems to be a tight core of assholes that just drift from server to server and seek to burn it down and both complain when they die and take perverse pleasure in seeing them ruined.

I mean as it is, this community is like the SZ Jihad chain of boards that were funny to read for a short while, then become oddly interesting because of all the demented and vicious personalities tear at one another to becoming stall and a bore because every second thread and every second word in every thread was n*gger as if the taboo around that word still made it funny to say.

It's hardly surprising that several SZ Jihad personalities have been active in Emu-dom all these years.

What this community needs is no longer banning, but ostracism. You don't simply lose your account and start over, you get prevented from ever playing on the server again.

The novelty of that is that is doesn't have a be an absolute barrier because if they come back hiding their identity they either get had in time and shit canned or they're forced to cut the crap, fly under their radar and lose the most precious thing they have: their EQ-personality/schitck. They either give it to get their nostalgia fix or they play account Sisyphus over and over once they get discovered.

The nice thing about that is they either act properly or they finally stop playing this fucking game and remove one more person that has been driving countless others away for years.

omgawd yes ^^ This.

[Salty]

I play a caster because I for goddamn sure ain't gonna play a melee with shit xp and no box.


Fo rlz




nihilum didn't get shit on for cheating. Holo got shit on for cheating. Amelinda even stated that Holo cheating was a strat stolen from Nih cheating.

So given that jack shit happened to Nih, the very point of this thread is beyond retarded.

Boxers gonna box. It's gonna happen regardless.


A couple people being banned doesn't mean everyone is banned. The percentage of boxers is huge, and it's mostly the people who sit in plane of fear gearing people who are offline. So it's not like Amelinda is going to find the bulk of them.

[taysk8]

As long as they get their ip exemption revoked, I see no reason not to allow them access to one account.

Ban them a week or whatever, and that's sufficient punishment. I mean, if they aren't a douche bag id rather have one more ex-boxer than one less player.

It's not like a 2 boxer is trying to cause anyone else problems.

.

[Filthed]

holocaust ban was a 2-week suspension only because they had stolen their strat from another guild that had been doing the same thing for weeks and weeks with no repercussions because of our fault. the fault of the server staff. so we didn't permanently penalize those players.

nihilum cheaters for weeks n weeks,, plz remove all dragon loots from that guild,, they have exploited in all games since the dawn of mmos,, some1 step up and permaban these cheaters,,

[Salty]

3 months later, ain't gonna happen filthed

[fiegi]

Heard killjoy/ozer was the first victim of this new policy

[Autotune]

this is just asking for more people to box imo.

Oh, no harsh punishment from boxing you say? Well, i should at least attempt to get away with it.

The worst that happens is i get put back on the same level as everyone else after a week or two...


same thing with MQ and SEQ. The people you screw are the people that don't use them.

[Casey]

NWO, 4 LIFE.

[Rutaq]

this is just asking for more people to box imo.

Oh, no harsh punishment from boxing you say? Well, i should at least attempt to get away with it.

The worst that happens is i get put back on the same level as everyone else after a week or two...


same thing with MQ and SEQ. The people you screw are the people that don't use them.


I agree. None of things you are talking about can happen to an innocent person. Boxing, MQ, SEQ all require that you knowingly break the rules or give someone your password so they can break the rules for you.

This server is being run for us by a small set of volunteers and anyone that willingly cheats doesn't deserve to be here.

Just Permaban them and move on, in the end more new people will try RED knowing that it has strict rules and that they won't commonly have to compete with players that "cheat" to win.

[SamwiseRed]

Heard killjoy/ozer was the first victim of this new policy

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8kel8eAEL1qddjb4o1_400.gif

[gnomishfirework]

people arent evil for 2 boxing. i mean, really, you guys take this stuff too seriously.

relax. its just a game. if people are being malicious, perma ban seems reasonable. if someone is just being an idiot and thinks they can get away with 2 boxing, they are just a little impatient/selfish.

one chance for polite people won't cause a negative impact on the server. if people are trying to use it to get around the perma ban, the GMs arent stupid. they will realize when every boxer says they didnt realize it would result in a ban.

[SamwiseRed]

Amelinda listens to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XstrpkqT6dw&feature=related while she smites ze boxers from ze server

[Peppers]

Over the holiday weekend Federal R99 Chairwoman Amelinda asked a question that sent a shot across the bow of all fair-minded players who have been playing by the rules.

Just the mention of leniancy has Tuesday's morning pre-market futures soaring in the 2-boxing sector. Jeff Sancy, a 2-box consultant in Chicago said his backlog of 2-box requests has grown 8% over the weekend alone.

(R99X2) the exchange traded 2-box ETF was up 17% pre-market Tuesday morning. Sally Simmons, a trader on the floor of the Chicago Exchange said she noticed a 5-1 ratio in advancers vs. decliners.

New Egg, a leader in online 2-box orders says their inventory will not keep up with the new demand of 2-boxers flooding the market. Expect low inventories to contribute to rising prices and R99X2 stock to explode over it's 50 day moving average.

Mike Lott CEO of Consultants in a Box, says this news sends the message loud and clear that there is no clear leadership at the helm of R99. "The leadership that IS there, seems to be clueless as to the repercussions of it's actions. The boat is rudderless and adrift." Mr. Lott also included that as the R99X2 ETF rises the R99 stock will fall conversely.

[SamwiseRed]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/423580_297231003676312_268330443233035_817635_1700 119837_n.jpg

[Nizzarr]

imo, banning trainers is more important than boxers.

[Slathar]

imo, banning trainers is more important than boxers.

I agree. Nihilum trains non-stop and then whines when someone brings a couple mobs accidentally. Ban Nizzarr, Beovvulf (or was he banned for MQ already?), and Natural. All of them train on a regular basis since they are bad at player versus player Everquest.

LONG LIVE MAGISTRATE UTHGAARD

[Labanen]

imo, banning trainers is more important than boxers.I agree.does that mean you ll stop Slathar ?

[Amelinda]

Heard killjoy/ozer was the first victim of this new policy

New policy? Not a new policy. this has been the policy. period.

[Rutaq]

people arent evil for 2 boxing. i mean, really, you guys take this stuff too seriously.

relax. its just a game. if people are being malicious, perma ban seems reasonable. if someone is just being an idiot and thinks they can get away with 2 boxing, they are just a little impatient/selfish.

one chance for polite people won't cause a negative impact on the server. if people are trying to use it to get around the perma ban, the GMs arent stupid. they will realize when every boxer says they didnt realize it would result in a ban.

Cheaters aren't all evil but I don't want to play with them. Maybe the Cheaters should get together and build their own EQ server then they can all break the rules together :)

I think the reason players take cheating seriously is because the game is competitive and requires a HUGE amount of time investment and endurance. 2 Boxing directly impacts others because it allows people to level without the similar time investment, the EQ level grind is a big part of the game and most people can't handle the work it takes so they never get to high level.

There is no polite way to Cheat, 2 Boxing doesn't happen by mistake. You decided that the rules don't apply to you and hoped that you could fly under the radar.

2 Boxing impacts everyone:


It screws with the economy since it quickly creates more high level farmers.

It screws with PvP since it creates more high level characters to quickly fill guild ranks.

It screws with the game, since it allows solo players to more quickly level without the need for other players.


And finally it encourages more cheating since with a single GM it is unlikely that she could catch everyone and a slap on the wrist punishment is worth it for the possible HUGE gain in levels.

I can't be the only other player that has seen a PvP game go down the drain due to casual cheating, duping,etc. With the lame justifications that "its not really cheating everybody does it" , "Dude you have to cheat to keep up with all the cheaters" , " who cares it's not like I am hurting anybody else" ...

Be happy with the XP gains on RED and let the Cheaters be Banned.

[LordFresh]

Why not have fun with cheaters. give them a 3 month period that you change there name to sosoandsoso THE SHAMED BOXER. remove all there /tell privledges making it annoying as hell to play lol. Make exp at -neg 200%.. Why loose another player

[SamwiseRed]

Holy shit well said good rutaq

[Amelinda]

Over the holiday weekend Federal R99 Chairwoman Amelinda asked a question that sent a shot across the bow of all fair-minded players who have been playing by the rules.

Just the mention of leniancy has Tuesday's morning pre-market futures soaring in the 2-boxing sector. Jeff Sancy, a 2-box consultant in Chicago said his backlog of 2-box requests has grown 8% over the weekend alone.

(R99X2) the exchange traded 2-box ETF was up 17% pre-market Tuesday morning. Sally Simmons, a trader on the floor of the Chicago Exchange said she noticed a 5-1 ratio in advancers vs. decliners.

New Egg, a leader in online 2-box orders says their inventory will not keep up with the new demand of 2-boxers flooding the market. Expect low inventories to contribute to rising prices and R99X2 stock to explode over it's 50 day moving average.

Mike Lott CEO of Consultants in a Box, says this news sends the message loud and clear that there is no clear leadership at the helm of R99. "The leadership that IS there, seems to be clueless as to the repercussions of it's actions. The boat is rudderless and adrift." Mr. Lott also included that as the R99X2 ETF rises the R99 stock will fall conversely.

I thought this post was hilarious. Although I do want to clear up the last paragraph. You idiots (and i use that word as lovingly as possible) seem to think that because i posted this poll that i'm going all strawberries, rainbows and sunshine on people caught 2-boxing. I hate to break it to you. I'm a hard-ass. I don't really believe in leniency at all. I do have a good heart but the chance of be NOT banning someone or just giving a suspension for boxing is very very miniscule. EXTREMELY miniscule. almost non-existant. I think out of the over 100 people i've banned for boxing I have lifted the bans or shown leniency on MAYBE 10 accounts. and that's a liberal estimate.

I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt but we all make choices in life and need to face consequences for our choices. I feel that makes us better people in general. You may feel that is unfair. I feel it is upholding the law. And no - everything is NOT seen in black and white by me but I do expect you all to play by the rules.

[Nirgon]

People who will break one rule will break any rules. Bans.

[Harrison]

I thought this post was hilarious. Although I do want to clear up the last paragraph. You idiots (and i use that word as lovingly as possible) seem to think that because i posted this poll that i'm going all strawberries, rainbows and sunshine on people caught 2-boxing. I hate to break it to you. I'm a hard-ass. I don't really believe in leniency at all. I do have a good heart but the chance of be NOT banning someone or just giving a suspension for boxing is very very miniscule. EXTREMELY miniscule. almost non-existant. I think out of the over 100 people i've banned for boxing I have lifted the bans or shown leniency on MAYBE 10 accounts. and that's a liberal estimate.

I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt but we all make choices in life and need to face consequences for our choices. I feel that makes us better people in general. You may feel that is unfair. I feel it is upholding the law. And no - everything is NOT seen in black and white by me but I do expect you all to play by the rules.

Yet, holocaust was caught blatantly exploiting raid content in your guys' faces and they got a "bad boy!" and a swat on the nose with newspaper.

[Nirgon]

does that mean you ll stop Slathar ?

He fears your pets.

I won't spoiler how to remedy this.

[Labanen]

He fears your pets.

I won't spoiler how to remedy this.i prolly wouldnt be able to remedy it if you told me how to... im a cleric

[Nirgon]

Heavens to Betsy.

[bigeasy]

P1999 is firm in their belief, but again will reiterate that perma banning without a suspension first is an abnormality in the MMORPG community, and even in the game they choose to "emulate"

This isn't to argue whether boxing should be allowed, they're set in their ways even if it goes against the grain of every MMORPG out in the market now and the very one they emulate on their servers. But for that fact, and that fact alone, is why perma banning with no prior suspensions on an account should be frowned upon.

Ignore the facts all you want, but they're distinctly the minority so not expecting players to bitch and complain when they are removed from the game on a first act is a little naive on their part.


"Multiboxing is generally allowed by MMORPG End User License Agreements, because the characters are still subject to all the normal rules of the game world and are controlled by the player directly. This is in contrast to bots that partially or fully control the characters, which are against the terms of service of most online games.[3]

Most MMORPGs only allow a single character per account to be logged in at once, so multi-boxers need a separate account for each character they want to play simultaneously. In subscription based services, this means paying multiple monthly fees, and buying several copies of game expansions. However, with trial accounts, multiboxing for free is possible. Using World of Warcraft: Starter Edition is one example which has unlimited play for free, albeit with certain in-game limitations surrounding maximum level, currency accrual, etc.[4]

Most game developers allow multiboxing in their games. To date, Age of Conan, Aion, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dungeons and Dragons Online, EVE Online, Lord of the Rings Online, EverQuest, EverQuest II, Lineage, Lineage II, Ultima Online, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Warhammer Online and World of Warcraft all allow multiboxing. The Chronicles of Spellborn and Rift allow hardware multiboxing, but prohibit software multiboxing. Game publishers do not provide technical support for multiboxing, so while it may be allowed, you may find certain games are not designed to be multiboxed.[5] [6]"

[SamwiseRed]

bigeasy banned for boxing and hoping to overturn said ban. fat,mad,sad,bad

[Nirgon]

Ask for IP exemption.

Amelinda spends her FREE TIME TO MAKE YOUR EXPERIENCE MORE ENJOYABLE.

YOU TAKE A SHIT ON THE COMMUNITY.

BYE

[SamwiseRed]

wtf just said almost the same shit in another thread, great minds think alike

[Peppers]

A list has been compiled of 2-boxers. These players have engaged in play that has been deemed detrimental to the server. Many man hours have been spent to compile, confirm and reconfirm their guilt.

Alas, many spies died to bring you this information. I hope you will respect their sacrifices.

Seems reasonable.
Aenor, Albane, Amuk, Asfasfos, bamzal, Basso, BellowingBrute, bionicbadger, Boden, bollo, boss, bounky37, Bromontana, BruizeLee, Bruno, Burt, CallnOutTheNubs, Casey, chtulu, Dacuk, Daemrius, Darwoth, deneauth, Diggles, dkling, doobiesnizax, Doors, drudgephenom, Dullah, Faywind, Filthed, Firrewhisper, Flunklesnarkin, Gert Groinwounder, gnomishfirework, Greenkrak, Hairybuttwhole, Herb9, hijinks, inimegalg, jballe3, jeffd, JerseyFresh609, Jessie, jjgerman, Jjlent, Judge, Juugox2, Karorn, Kimm Barely, Koogster, larti, loneless999, LordFresh, Lulz Sect, Maelzai, mgellan, Mingo, Morninx, mreynert, Muck, Nerfbat, Niadissa, Nizzarr, oldfish, Omarley, Ordaga, paulcass77, r99enc, Raavak, Secrets, Silentone, Silikten, Skrimp, Slave, Slug, Ssleeve, steaks4, Supreme, SyanideGas, Szeth, Tajin, Tarnot, tefog, Tripped, Truth, Vermouth, veto, webrunner5, Wildino, Woosa, Xebsis, Yinaltin, Younggotti, Zalaerian

[kprobe]

Permaban is never appropriate for a first infraction.
Make the suspensions long (1month+), or better yet additionally de-level both characters by 50% and delete any plat.

Make it harsh, let them take a hard loss and mull over it for a while, but let journey continue.

Successful countries with low crime rates nearly always operate rehabilitative penal system, not only because it rehabilitates, but at its core because leniency allows the full context of the law to operate. Nothing is black and white, its always a range, seeing it so, allows for a measured and appropriate response.

However, laws are not only what is written but what is enforced, any deviation in terms of consistency, will cause the actual communally perceived laws to change. It's for this very reason training is still very common. Whatever the balanced approach is, it has to be consistent and expected.

[Nirgon]

A list has been compiled of 2-boxers. These players have engaged in play that has been deemed detrimental to the server. Many man hours have been spent to compile, confirm and reconfirm their guilt.

Alas, many spies died to bring you this information. I hope you will respect their sacrifices.

Seems reasonable.
Aenor, Albane, Amuk, Asfasfos, bamzal, Basso, BellowingBrute, bionicbadger, Boden, bollo, boss, bounky37, Bromontana, BruizeLee, Bruno, Burt, CallnOutTheNubs, Casey, chtulu, Dacuk, Daemrius, Darwoth, deneauth, Diggles, dkling, doobiesnizax, Doors, drudgephenom, Dullah, Faywind, Filthed, Firrewhisper, Flunklesnarkin, Gert Groinwounder, gnomishfirework, Greenkrak, Hairybuttwhole, Herb9, hijinks, inimegalg, jballe3, jeffd, JerseyFresh609, Jessie, jjgerman, Jjlent, Judge, Juugox2, Karorn, Kimm Barely, Koogster, larti, loneless999, LordFresh, Lulz Sect, Maelzai, mgellan, Mingo, Morninx, mreynert, Muck, Nerfbat, Niadissa, Nizzarr, oldfish, Omarley, Ordaga, paulcass77, r99enc, Raavak, Secrets, Silentone, Silikten, Skrimp, Slave, Slug, Ssleeve, steaks4, Supreme, SyanideGas, Szeth, Tajin, Tarnot, tefog, Tripped, Truth, Vermouth, veto, webrunner5, Wildino, Woosa, Xebsis, Yinaltin, Younggotti, Zalaerian

Tibberz + Bamzal shame on you.

The rest, carry on. Nihilum member forum accounts successfully detected.

[Autotune]

Multi-boxing is not allowed. Players are only allowed to play one client per RL person. We will be enforcing this rule and we ask for everyone’s co-operation to just abide by our wishes. Breaking this rule will result in a ban.

i think the server should follow it's own rules.

[Autotune]

I like this one too

Any type of program or script that gives you an unfair advantage (eg. MacroQuest, ShowEQ or packet modification) will result in an instant ban with no lenience. Cheating will be ruled with an iron first regardless of who you are.

[Autotune]

Looks like these iron fists and hammers are more like fluffy bunnies and rainbows as of late.

[oldfish]

I wonder how many people voted for the wrong thing, like i did

[Rikimeru]

leave penalty as it is. the no boxing rule and penalty for doing it is no secret, and if you box you know whats comming and deserve the permaban.