Malrubius
04-29-2010, 02:19 PM
So I've seen a lot of guesswork and posts about Charisma's effect on various (mostly chanter) spells.
I've gathered a lot (most?) of the classic-era posts/tests around this issue, in the hopes that it helps get us a little closer to classic. Apologies in advance for the formatting and various broken links from long ago...
1 - The following post-classic-era thread links to several classic-era discussions (although those classic sub-links no longer work :/). It gives a very good summary (with comments from Verant itself!) of what impact CHA had on charms, mezzes, and lulls...
http://www.brellrants.net/brell/viewtopic.php?t=3315&sid=95decf464c1c271a163c072341d4df83
Charisma has impact on...
1. Lull Resists (helps determine if you aggro or not)
http://eq.crgaming.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=4882
Quote:
Is the effect resisted?
If the effect is resisted, will the NPC get angry and tell its friends that it's time for a BardSnack(tm), or will it ignore what just happened?
Charisma is the sole determinant in the second check. It doesn't affect (resists).
2. Charm
http://eq.crgaming.com/archives.asp?Day=8&Month=10&Year=1999&ID=4660&Action=View
Quote:
I checked with GZ this morning regardng the effect Charisma has in charming. The answer is that its effect is twofold.
Firstly it effects the chance at resisting the initial charm cast. Secondly, and more importantly, it makes it harder for the charmed NPC's save to successfully roll. This basically means it does effect duration.
3. Mez and Blur
http://eq.crgaming.com/archives.asp?Day=10&Month=11&Year=1999&ID=431&Action=View
Quote:
Spoke with GZ this morning regarding Charisma and its effect in relation to resists.
In summary Charisma effects the resists of Charms, Mesmerises and Blur-Type Spells across all classes.
Boston Fanfaire
http://eq.crgaming.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=4451
Quote:
Is Charisma actually taken into account on mesmerizations and charms?
Yes it is. It varies on a number of spells to its actual usefulness but it does have a use. There are different levels of charisma for different classes. The system does take into account that an Enchanter should have a higher charisma than say a Necromancer. It�s unfair to expect masters of the undead to be entirely charismatic.
GZ ON CHARISMA (SOFT) CAP
http://eq.crgaming.com/archives.asp?Day=19&Month=1&Year=2000&ID=675&Action=View
Quote:
GZ confirmed that the soft cap on Charisma is 200
For those unfamiliar with how a soft cap works, once a stat goes over 200 the actual real benefit diminishes. In practical terms this means an increase of a stat from 190 to 200 gives greater benefit than increasing it from 200 to 210.
GZ = Geoffrey Zatkin
2 - http://www.therunes.net/startingguide.htm (Date: 2000-2002)
Cha- This not only gets you the best prices from vendors, it directly effects things such as Charm, Mezz and Lull. I know there is a lot of debate on the effect of Cha for enchanters, however it was finally confirmed by that company.
-=Webarchive link EQCR=-
October 8, 1999
CHARISMA - THE NATURE OF CHARM
I checked with GZ this morning regardng the effect Charisma has in charming. The answer is that its effect is twofold.
Firstly it effects the chance at resisting the initial charm cast. Secondly, and more importantly, it makes it harder for the charmed NPC's save to successfully roll. This basically means it does effect duration.
Also charm does have a maximum duration. The higher level charm spell you use the longer the maximum duration can be. So there is a good reason to use that Allure spell even though its more mana.
Submitted by Baelish, 6:25 PM
November 10, 1999
WHY DO I NEED CHARISMA?
Spoke with GZ this morning regarding Charisma and its effect in relation to resists.
In summary Charisma effects the resists of Charms, Mesmerises and Blur-Type Spells across all classes.
Charisma will not lower resist rates of debuff spells, slow spells, direct damage spells, or DoT's.
Submitted by Baelish, 3:26 AM
NOVEMBER 5, 2002
CHARISMA & LULLS
Source: The Concert Hall.
3 - http://www.therunes.net/rguidehighlevel2.htm
EQ has always been mysterious in the mechanics department. It took a year before it was even acknowledged that Charisma played a role in Mez and Charm resists. Here are some facts that have been discovered (thanks goes out to Nanyea for this info) on the role that Charisma takes:
"Charm does an initial check that consists of a level of caster vs level of mob modified by MR.
Charisma affects this by adding a modifier to the MR approx 10 percent of your total charisma.. so a 300 chr enchanter gets a bonus neg 30 check. After the initial charm land..theres a per tick check based off the server clock.. ie the clock checks every 6 seconds according to the server and say your charm lands on second 4 of that 6... the mob gets a chance to break again in 2 seconds.. that's how you get instant or early breaks that don't last a full tick."
4 - Also, for the following *limited* test, which was unfortunately PoP-ERA :/, the data indicates the following...
With a 305 cha, and then, a 130 cha - and everything else that is relevant unchanged...
1 - Charm lasts ~10% longer with a 305 cha vs. 130 cha.
2 - Charm cast is completely RESISTED, MUCH more often with a lower cha (this surprised me).
3 - The guy's conclusion that #1 above corresponds to "almost no effect" is bogus imo. 10% is huge over time.
http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1148&sid=2e6bca7945bf6bcb2b735fa34e9b4a0f
I've gathered a lot (most?) of the classic-era posts/tests around this issue, in the hopes that it helps get us a little closer to classic. Apologies in advance for the formatting and various broken links from long ago...
1 - The following post-classic-era thread links to several classic-era discussions (although those classic sub-links no longer work :/). It gives a very good summary (with comments from Verant itself!) of what impact CHA had on charms, mezzes, and lulls...
http://www.brellrants.net/brell/viewtopic.php?t=3315&sid=95decf464c1c271a163c072341d4df83
Charisma has impact on...
1. Lull Resists (helps determine if you aggro or not)
http://eq.crgaming.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=4882
Quote:
Is the effect resisted?
If the effect is resisted, will the NPC get angry and tell its friends that it's time for a BardSnack(tm), or will it ignore what just happened?
Charisma is the sole determinant in the second check. It doesn't affect (resists).
2. Charm
http://eq.crgaming.com/archives.asp?Day=8&Month=10&Year=1999&ID=4660&Action=View
Quote:
I checked with GZ this morning regardng the effect Charisma has in charming. The answer is that its effect is twofold.
Firstly it effects the chance at resisting the initial charm cast. Secondly, and more importantly, it makes it harder for the charmed NPC's save to successfully roll. This basically means it does effect duration.
3. Mez and Blur
http://eq.crgaming.com/archives.asp?Day=10&Month=11&Year=1999&ID=431&Action=View
Quote:
Spoke with GZ this morning regarding Charisma and its effect in relation to resists.
In summary Charisma effects the resists of Charms, Mesmerises and Blur-Type Spells across all classes.
Boston Fanfaire
http://eq.crgaming.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=4451
Quote:
Is Charisma actually taken into account on mesmerizations and charms?
Yes it is. It varies on a number of spells to its actual usefulness but it does have a use. There are different levels of charisma for different classes. The system does take into account that an Enchanter should have a higher charisma than say a Necromancer. It�s unfair to expect masters of the undead to be entirely charismatic.
GZ ON CHARISMA (SOFT) CAP
http://eq.crgaming.com/archives.asp?Day=19&Month=1&Year=2000&ID=675&Action=View
Quote:
GZ confirmed that the soft cap on Charisma is 200
For those unfamiliar with how a soft cap works, once a stat goes over 200 the actual real benefit diminishes. In practical terms this means an increase of a stat from 190 to 200 gives greater benefit than increasing it from 200 to 210.
GZ = Geoffrey Zatkin
2 - http://www.therunes.net/startingguide.htm (Date: 2000-2002)
Cha- This not only gets you the best prices from vendors, it directly effects things such as Charm, Mezz and Lull. I know there is a lot of debate on the effect of Cha for enchanters, however it was finally confirmed by that company.
-=Webarchive link EQCR=-
October 8, 1999
CHARISMA - THE NATURE OF CHARM
I checked with GZ this morning regardng the effect Charisma has in charming. The answer is that its effect is twofold.
Firstly it effects the chance at resisting the initial charm cast. Secondly, and more importantly, it makes it harder for the charmed NPC's save to successfully roll. This basically means it does effect duration.
Also charm does have a maximum duration. The higher level charm spell you use the longer the maximum duration can be. So there is a good reason to use that Allure spell even though its more mana.
Submitted by Baelish, 6:25 PM
November 10, 1999
WHY DO I NEED CHARISMA?
Spoke with GZ this morning regarding Charisma and its effect in relation to resists.
In summary Charisma effects the resists of Charms, Mesmerises and Blur-Type Spells across all classes.
Charisma will not lower resist rates of debuff spells, slow spells, direct damage spells, or DoT's.
Submitted by Baelish, 3:26 AM
NOVEMBER 5, 2002
CHARISMA & LULLS
Source: The Concert Hall.
3 - http://www.therunes.net/rguidehighlevel2.htm
EQ has always been mysterious in the mechanics department. It took a year before it was even acknowledged that Charisma played a role in Mez and Charm resists. Here are some facts that have been discovered (thanks goes out to Nanyea for this info) on the role that Charisma takes:
"Charm does an initial check that consists of a level of caster vs level of mob modified by MR.
Charisma affects this by adding a modifier to the MR approx 10 percent of your total charisma.. so a 300 chr enchanter gets a bonus neg 30 check. After the initial charm land..theres a per tick check based off the server clock.. ie the clock checks every 6 seconds according to the server and say your charm lands on second 4 of that 6... the mob gets a chance to break again in 2 seconds.. that's how you get instant or early breaks that don't last a full tick."
4 - Also, for the following *limited* test, which was unfortunately PoP-ERA :/, the data indicates the following...
With a 305 cha, and then, a 130 cha - and everything else that is relevant unchanged...
1 - Charm lasts ~10% longer with a 305 cha vs. 130 cha.
2 - Charm cast is completely RESISTED, MUCH more often with a lower cha (this surprised me).
3 - The guy's conclusion that #1 above corresponds to "almost no effect" is bogus imo. 10% is huge over time.
http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1148&sid=2e6bca7945bf6bcb2b735fa34e9b4a0f