aliens?!

[Yellow]

Whats everyones thoughts on hawkings latest alien fits?

[Jete]

Helps to give people some background!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hoWW144NaE

[Omnimorph]

I already believe in the existence of aliens. A logical person would agree with me.

What's funnier is that people think contact with them would be like in science fiction. Either their development as a species would be completely primitive to ours, in which case communication or interaction in general would be impossible (like single celled organisms etc) or they'd be more advanced than us, in which case I can't see them wanting much to do with us at all.

Factor in the vastness of space, the limits of travel (for us at least) and contact with them seems very unlikely.

In terms of the existence of extraterrestrial life, consider the amount of solar systems in the universe, coupled with the diversity of life we see JUST on our planet (lifeforms existing without light at the bottom of the sea bed etc.) and the probability of life existing on at least one other planet seems a practical certainty.

[Jete]

Well I'd like to point a few things out-

First, anyone saying "Any logical person believes like I do," is the reason why we thought the world was flat for so long.

Second, it is illegal in the U.S. to make contact with an Extra-Terrestrial. http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/etlaw.html

And lastly, we would most likely disease the E.T.s and wipe them out. Just AIDs them up!

[YendorLootmonkey]

One interesting (yet depressing) theory, and I can't remember what it's called, is that the reason we have not been visited by intelligent life after billions of years during which other civilizations could have advanced, is that there is always some sort of point at which civilizations wipe themselves out before getting to the point where they can perform interstellar travel. Part of this theory is that before they get to that point, civilizations wipe themselves out due to:

a) depletion of resources (via war, famine, disease, etc), or

b) planetary catastrophe during technological/scientific advancement.

Now the most interesting thing about b) is that it has been postulated that, if finding the Higgs-Boson particle is a pre-requisite for the understanding of physics necessary to develop interstellar travel, every civilization could advance to the point where they search for Higgs-Boson and create their equivalent of the Large Hadron Collider, at which point something goes horribly wrong and they create a black hole that devours their entire planet.

Taking that theory even further, it could be theorized that at least some black holes that we have detected are the results of past civilizations getting to that point and then inadvertantly creating a black hole on themselves.

[Shannacore]

http://www.famouspictures.org/mag/images/1/12/Office.jpg

Mulder and I have the same poster!

[Rogean]

lol black holes NOMNOMNOMNOM

[Ihealyou]

One interesting (yet depressing) theory, and I can't remember what it's called, is that the reason we have not been visited by intelligent life after billions of years during which other civilizations could have advanced, is that there is always some sort of point at which civilizations wipe themselves out before getting to the point where they can perform interstellar travel. Part of this theory is that before they get to that point, civilizations wipe themselves out due to:

a) depletion of resources (via war, famine, disease, etc), or

b) planetary catastrophe during technological/scientific advancement.

Now the most interesting thing about b) is that it has been postulated that, if finding the Higgs-Boson particle is a pre-requisite for the understanding of physics necessary to develop interstellar travel, every civilization could advance to the point where they search for Higgs-Boson and create their equivalent of the Large Hadron Collider, at which point something goes horribly wrong and they create a black hole that devours their entire planet.

Taking that theory even further, it could be theorized that at least some black holes that we have detected are the results of past civilizations getting to that point and then inadvertantly creating a black hole on themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

Its some pretty depressing stuff, but not all of it is that bad. One of the theories that seems to make sense is a civilization has a relatively short "radio age" where they are broadcasting signals that we can pick up. Already we are moving away from radio waves, replacing analogue tv with digital, and internet tv for example. We've only been broadcasting radio waves for maybe 100 years now, and even if it takes another 100 or more before they're gone, its still a drop in the bucket when you're talking about the lifespan of a civilization.

Another not depressing theory is that we're just too far away from any aliens to communicate. We're sending a signal to stars 24,000 light years away. Assuming that there are aliens there, what are the chances that they are still listening? Even if they are listening, we would have to wait another 24,000 years to hear a response, and much longer if we were to expect some kind of visit or other contact.

[Hasbinbad]

It never ceases to amaze me how basic math evades even the smartest amongst us. Light travels at an insanely fast speed, and yet there are billions of stars which will nova and then wink out of existence before the first photons start being perceived by our best telescopes. The fact that some people think that in the time frame of the universe, "aliens" could evolve, develop civilization, develop intergalactic travel, and then possibly beat that light to here.. ..is amazing.

Two words: light years.

[Hasbinbad]

Another not depressing theory is that we're just too far away from any aliens to communicate. We're sending a signal to stars 24,000 light years away. Assuming that there are aliens there, what are the chances that they are still listening? Even if they are listening, we would have to wait another 24,000 years to hear a response, and much longer if we were to expect some kind of visit or other contact.
That would be true if radio waves traveled at the speed of light.

[Ihealyou]

That would be true if radio waves traveled at the speed of light.

EM radiation travels at the speed of light in a vacuum you silly goose.

[Hasbinbad]

EM radiation travels at the speed of light in a vacuum you silly goose.
Sure, in a theoretical vacuum.

"Space" is not a perfect vacuum. If the signals were transmitted from space, this would be nearly true, but there is quite a bit of interference between earth and "space," causing that signal to slow down quite a bit before it gets to that near-vacuum point.

Or did I miss that day in physics?

[NotInventedHere]

Jete, are you advocating Captain Kirk-like sexing of hot alien womens?

[Hasbinbad]

Jete, are you advocating Captain Kirk-like sexing of hot alien womens?
Canadians: ruining the galaxy with AIDS, one hot alien womens at a time.

[Shannacore]

^ alleyoop!

[Jete]

That would be true if radio waves traveled at the speed of light.

Radio waves are a form of light.

[Kraftwerk]

Couldn't they just use their TARDIS?

[Excision Rottun]

Radio waves are a form of electromagnetic radiation.

Fixed.

[mirko]

Sure, in a theoretical vacuum.

"Space" is not a perfect vacuum. If the signals were transmitted from space, this would be nearly true, but there is quite a bit of interference between earth and "space," causing that signal to slow down quite a bit before it gets to that near-vacuum point.

Or did I miss that day in physics?

No you just missed that web page when you googled it. OHH BURN!!! sorry I could not resist the temptation to troll. Ignore me. :p

[Hasbinbad]

Mirko if you are challenging me to a discourse on our relative knowledge of science, I accept. If you think I'm googling, let's do it in a voice chat so the pace is much faster, and we can see who knows a little about a little and who doesn't. Sound fun?

[Shannacore]

Can i sit in on this convo?

[Hasbinbad]

http://www.busywomensfitness.com/images/popcorn.jpg

[mirko]

Mirko if you are challenging me to a discourse on our relative knowledge of science, I accept. If you think I'm googling, let's do it in a voice chat so the pace is much faster, and we can see who knows a little about a little and who doesn't. Sound fun?

So defensive!! Guess you missed the part where I said "ignore me". I have no desire to sit with you in voice chat and speak to you, nor have I ever claimed I knew more about something than you did. What was intended as a funny little jab got turned into something along the lines of "my cock is bigger than yours, let's whip em out and compare". This was not my intention. So quick to start a pissing match huh Hasbin?

[YendorLootmonkey]

Meanwhile, while you guys are busy whipping out your miniscule cocks with forceps to compare, the alien invasion fleet is fast approaching. The human civilization will just become a historical footnote in the Milky Way galaxy: "if they weren't all busy measuring their e-peens, maybe they could have put up a fight..."

[mirko]

I lol'd. Do you think aliens measure their intergalactic space peens?

[YendorLootmonkey]

After they catch us all off guard with our dicks and rulers in our hands, they'll enslave the human race and make us measure their intergalactic space peens for them.

[Shannacore]

I will not be caught off guard, for I do not have a dick to hold and/or measure!

I win!

[mirko]

yea you measure your eboobs!

[YendorLootmonkey]

I will not be caught off guard, for I do not have a dick to hold and/or measure!

I win!

If you're lucky, you will be dressed in a Princess Leia slave outfit and have to clean out the aliens' litter box. I hear they shit five times their own body weight. I hardly call that winning.

[Yellow]

me and a friend did some theory crafting and i forgot the equations we built but we were assuming many things but hell in theory crafting its all assumption. well we figured that at the speed of radio waves there is a chance that they have yet to even go very far in space relatively... like possibly not even out of our solar system and for sure not into another.

[nilbog]

well i have lost faith that governments will be able to do anything. support privatized space and lets go find the aliens.

http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/lunar/about-the-prize

[Excision Rottun]

me and a friend did some theory crafting and i forgot the equations we built but we were assuming many things but hell in theory crafting its all assumption. well we figured that at the speed of radio waves there is a chance that they have yet to even go very far in space relatively... like possibly not even out of our solar system and for sure not into another.

http://www.geekologie.com/2009/07/02/alien%20tv%202.jpg

[YendorLootmonkey]

I hope alien civilizations don't watch our shows like Star Trek: TNG and they're like "Shit... these guys are a serious threat with their starships and photon torpedoes, we better go blow up their planet before they find us."

[mgellan]

me and a friend did some theory crafting and i forgot the equations we built but we were assuming many things but hell in theory crafting its all assumption. well we figured that at the speed of radio waves there is a chance that they have yet to even go very far in space relatively... like possibly not even out of our solar system and for sure not into another.

Given radio waves are essentially photons (to give it the particle name in the wave particle duality) travelling at the speed of light with wavelengths about 30cm and up, they would most certainly have left in the solar system in the approx. 90 years we have been broadcasting them. The closest 50 stars indeed lie within 16 ly of the Sun so they'll be currently getting blasted by 1994 hits like "The Sign" by Ace of Base and "The Power of Love" by Celine Dion (shudder!) at 100000 watts on the AM band. Since the strength of the signal declines as 1/r^2 then 100000 watts radiated power at say 1km from the transmitter would be 1/(16ly*9,460,800,000,000km/ly)^2 = 6.6x10^-15W when they are received, assuming no intervening dust - given there are amateur SETI receivers that can receive in the order of 10^-23 watts/sq meter I'm sure any aliens with a basic radio astronomy set would be blown out of their seat.

While interstellar dust will block radio (so anyone in line of sight of earth but behind a dust cloud won't see it) it won't 'slow it down' by any measurable amount. In fact the radio would have travelled the roughly 100AU = 1.58128588 × 10-3 ly to the heliopause in about 83 minutes...

That being the case, the multi-steller combined battle fleet should be arriving at any moment to destroy any lingering trace of Celine Dion from the Universe, which in my opinion is fully justified.

Regards,
Mg

PS Can you tell work is a little slow this afternoon? :)

[Hasbinbad]

90 light years is miniscule compared to the galaxy, let alone the universe..

The disk (http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/dict_ad.html#disk) of the Milky Way galaxy (http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/dict_ei.html#galaxy) is about 100,000 light years in diameter (one light year is about 9.5 x 1015 meters (http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/dict_jp.html#meter)), but only about 1000 light years thick.

There are billions? trillions? of galaxies?? The space between them is immense relative to the space between stars intragalactically?

I don't think you're going to find a scientist worth his salt that would postulate that interstellar extraterrestrial life can be found within the milky way..

Nobody is listening to the original broadcast of war of the worlds guys.
That being the case, the multi-steller combined battle fleet should be arriving at any moment to destroy any lingering trace of Celine Dion from the Universe, which in my opinion is fully justified..
I lol'd irl.

[dojo420]

somewhat related:
for anyone interested (and nerdy) enough i highly recommend "Understanding the universe" by Alex Filippenko. It's 96 video episodes 30 mins each of classroom style astronomy. it is very well done though and has plenty of examples, graphics etc.
topics discussed can be seen here under "course lecture titles":
http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=1810

i just watch it during long camps.

[Omnimorph]

... so... where's the mass effect relays in that picture dammit?

wanting some asari action!! :3

[Yellow]

I hope alien civilizations don't watch our shows like Star Trek: TNG and they're like "Shit... these guys are a serious threat with their starships and photon torpedoes, we better go blow up their planet before they find us."

:]

[Hasbinbad]

somewhat related:
for anyone interested (and nerdy) enough i highly recommend "Understanding the universe" by Alex Filippenko. It's 96 video episodes 30 mins each of classroom style astronomy. it is very well done though and has plenty of examples, graphics etc.
topics discussed can be seen here under "course lecture titles":
http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=1810

i just watch it during long camps.
Thanks for the tip!
From the looks of the TTC vids, and knowing of many of these professors, this is a great (and very expensive) resource!
<3 tpb is all I have to say.

[guineapig]

By the way, that law mentioned on the first page is a rumor that was debunked a long time ago:

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/a/aliens.htm

http://tafkac.org/faq2k/legal_2006.html

http://www.snopes.com/legal/et.asp

[Ihealyou]

By the way, that law mentioned on the first page is a rumor that was debunked a long time ago:

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/a/aliens.htm

http://tafkac.org/faq2k/legal_2006.html

http://www.snopes.com/legal/et.asp

But now police in Arizona have to question anyone they think is an alien~

[km2783]

I like how Hasbin's tone changed and he started using words like "discourse". fun fun :D

Thanks for the tip!
From the looks of the TTC vids, and knowing of many of these professors, this is a great (and very expensive) resource!
<3 tpb is all I have to say.

It's actually pretty inexpensive from a quantity standpoint, really. Way more content than several seasons of one's favorite TV series.

Back to the topic-ish, I for one welcome our new alien overlords. I'd like to remind them that-... oh, wait. No...

Now back to topic-ish. As I really don't know where exactly we are in the universe (and don't feel like looking it up just this moment), I can only wonder at just how many civilizations would/could have had enough of a head start on us after the creation of it all to be advanced enough to travel here in the first place. But then again, if the universe is about 14 billion years old, our sun is "only" 4 or 5 billion, and there are stars in our galaxy in the 10+ billion year range, that's a long time for other civilizations to develop ahead of us.

Here's a fun thought to ponder. Notice how much the number of "UFO sightings" has gone down with the age of nearly idiot-proof point and shoot digitial cameras? No more excuses for blurry pictures, and suddenly these sightings nearly dry up. Surely, it is just that the aliens are trying harder! Surely... :rolleyes: I'm not saying the planet has never been visitied. It just seems... fishy... to me that we don't have better pictures these days.