Is training mobs completely different?

[Ditka]

So I have this um...friend, who use to train mobs in oasis by using a small nuke on sand giants, and I'm pretty sure mobs would aggro any player close, and I know for sure they would destroy anyone who was meditating. So now if I ran through oasis and I accidentally ran past an sg (they're hard to see) without even landing a spell on it, it won't aggro any player unless I pass them and zone.

So does anyone remember it being different or am I crazy?

[Bumamgar]

I haven't played with the scenario you describe, but I do know that as a warrior, when I pull a mob to camp on p99, it will often turn and whack a sitting caster as it comes in, if I don't build enough agro on it first.

[Myrkskog]

The way I remember it mobs like Sand Giants and Specters would aggro people even if they were chasing someone else only if they had 0 damage done to them by the person they were originally chasing(proximity aggro).

I seem to remember if they took any damage they would concentrate solely on that source of damage.

[Excision Rottun]

The way I remember it mobs like Sand Giants and Specters would aggro people even if they were chasing someone else only if they had 0 damage done to them by the person they were originally chasing(proximity aggro).

I seem to remember if they took any damage they would concentrate solely on that source of damage.

This is correct.

This mechanic is also what makes Bard Swarm Kiting possible.

[Ditka]

The way I remember it mobs like Sand Giants and Specters would aggro people even if they were chasing someone else only if they had 0 damage done to them by the person they were originally chasing(proximity aggro).

I seem to remember if they took any damage they would concentrate solely on that source of damage.

Yeah, that's how I remember it. Save for the damage part but to be honest I'm not 100 percent sure, so it's likely I could be wrong. Like a low damage nuke (maybe it had to resist?) would still cause a mob to aggro if it was close enough. I know when I had an oasis group on this server, I saw some necro run by with an sg on his tail, then noticed the sg took no damage and saw a wizard medding where the sg even touched him without attacking (similar situations like this actually happened a few times).

[taamas]

The way I remember it mobs like Sand Giants and Specters would aggro people even if they were chasing someone else only if they had 0 damage done to them by the person they were originally chasing(proximity aggro).

I seem to remember if they took any damage they would concentrate solely on that source of damage.

I would agree with this, at least from memory.

However in P99 (maybe it's just me though, I dunno), if I only face-pull (proximity aggro) a mob, I'm usually tanking for a couple seconds once I return to camp. My attack is off, I have done zero damage, and others have gotten a few swings off. It's like I pissed in its cheerios and its out to murder me, until it realizes it's losing health from other attackers and switches targets.

On the flip side, when I throw a shuriken and return to camp, the mob usually switches after the first or second swing from someone else.

I don't have any factual data to back this up, just speaking from experience and my perception. Any other pullers notice this? It doesn't quite make sense to me, since I feel the first swing should draw aggro, even if it was a miss (if I'm face-pulling).

[YendorLootmonkey]

Projectile damage seems to add very little "hate" compared to melee damage. Otherwise all of us AM3/Trueshot Disc rangers back in the day would have F'd up a lot of raids.

[Izzni]

The ability to greif groups in Oasis being broken is not something that should be fixed. Unless the GMs suddenly have enough time to babysit Oasis. On live the GMs couldn't even handle the problem, and they were paid to do so.

[Malrubius]

The ability to greif groups in Oasis being broken is not something that should be fixed. Unless the GMs suddenly have enough time to babysit Oasis. On live the GMs couldn't even handle the problem, and they were paid to do so.

I don't think it's that the ability to grief groups in Oasis that is broken. That's just a side-effect of a mechanic that is broken.

The mechanic should be fixed.

[Weekapaug]

This is correct.

This mechanic is also what makes Bard Swarm Kiting possible.

Does this mean that bards cannot swarm kite on this server?

Was also curious if AoE kiting is possible again here, also? That got nerfed on live a while back but was alive and well thru velious, as I recall.

[Weekapaug]

Yeah, that's how I remember it. Save for the damage part but to be honest I'm not 100 percent sure, so it's likely I could be wrong. Like a low damage nuke (maybe it had to resist?) would still cause a mob to aggro if it was close enough. I know when I had an oasis group on this server, I saw some necro run by with an sg on his tail, then noticed the sg took no damage and saw a wizard medding where the sg even touched him without attacking (similar situations like this actually happened a few times).

I played a wiz during the classic era live...I seem to remember times where someone would train SGs past the beach and zone...and when it would come back it would usually go for someone medding even though someone standing might be closer. Although, that could have just been my perception because that someone was often me, medding with book up lol but it seemed like they always loved to go right for the crowd on the dock past the people standing around.

[jilena]

From what I remember a small subset of aggro mobs (undead mostly) would stick on anyone you drug them past regardless of what that person was doing assuming you had done no damage. So if I aggroed a skeleton (or ghoul, mummy, spectre, etc) I could run past someone and instead of chasing me the mob(s) would turn and beat on the new person.

Now for mobs that are aggro but do NOT follow the undead aggro anything view, this works a little different. If you aggro that mob and then run it past someone they get proximity aggro. The mob will not immediately turn and beat on them, but they are now on the mob's hate list. Now if the person who just got proximity aggro then generates a ton of aggro by healing someone or by being healed a large amount, for instance, they could move up the hate list and have the mob turn and come back for them or the person that healed them.

If that makes sense?

[Ditka]

The ability to greif groups in Oasis being broken is not something that should be fixed. Unless the GMs suddenly have enough time to babysit Oasis. On live the GMs couldn't even handle the problem, and they were paid to do so.

While it's true that this can easily be used for griefing, the fact of the matter this was how classic EQ was, provided were right, which I'm pretty sure were at least somewhat.

It obviously doesn't just change the game because of griefing, it gives players more fear, and keeps them on the look out for trains, where in this server they have plenty of warning and can zone out for the most part. This can easily be accidental as much as it can be on purpose and sometimes the player is just flat out in the way and there's no other option.

[Myrkskog]

Now for mobs that are aggro but do NOT follow the undead aggro anything view, this works a little different. If you aggro that mob and then run it past someone they get proximity aggro. The mob will not immediately turn and beat on them, but they are now on the mob's hate list. Now if the person who just got proximity aggro then generates a ton of aggro by healing someone or by being healed a large amount, for instance, they could move up the hate list and have the mob turn and come back for them or the person that healed them.


I can't remember if the healing causing higher aggro triggers from only healing the primary target of the mob or if it is anyone who is on the proximity aggro list. I seem to remember that only healing the primary target would cause the kind of aggro you are talking about.

[Abacab]

None of this works, my raid can be pulling everything in fear which is obviously KoS and I can stand right in front of the mobs as everyone beats on them but I'll get ZERO proximity aggro.

Even better example, we could break fear and if we sent someone in the zone to aggro the pathers they can stand right next to me getting beat and I can click hide and after that person dies I'll get zero aggro from the mobs even though I was standing on top of them prior to hide.

So at the moment it's impossible to give random people proximity aggro by running mobs past them, you'll have to die at their spot or zone and hope it paths back, cause aggro now works with priority on a hate list.

[Jify]

Please see my response to this thread:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5819&page=2

[jilena]

None of this works, my raid can be pulling everything in fear which is obviously KoS and I can stand right in front of the mobs as everyone beats on them but I'll get ZERO proximity aggro.

See that's weird, cuz if I am doing Sol B on Zar in BnB and some asshole tries to be cool and snipe the Nox spider for instance... If they pull it through my group. I can just be a dick and chain heal the shit out of one of my group members... And the spider will come right back to me no matter what they have done to it..

[doacleric]

From what I remember a small subset of aggro mobs (undead mostly) would stick on anyone you drug them past regardless of what that person was doing assuming you had done no damage. So if I aggroed a skeleton (or ghoul, mummy, spectre, etc) I could run past someone and instead of chasing me the mob(s) would turn and beat on the new person.

Now for mobs that are aggro but do NOT follow the undead aggro anything view, this works a little different. If you aggro that mob and then run it past someone they get proximity aggro. The mob will not immediately turn and beat on them, but they are now on the mob's hate list. Now if the person who just got proximity aggro then generates a ton of aggro by healing someone or by being healed a large amount, for instance, they could move up the hate list and have the mob turn and come back for them or the person that healed them.

If that makes sense?

This is more or less correct, at least from my memory. In general, if you were standing around and someone trained an NPC by you, that NPC would add you to its hate list if you:
1.) Were fighting a mob that is on an assist faction to the NPC running by you.
2.) Cast a heal/buff/positive spell on the person doing the training
3.) Were sitting down (maybe?)
4.) I cast a negative spell or damage the NPC being trained

There were some exceptions to this rule, namely with undead like regular skeletons which would add any players to their hate list as long as they were in proximity. This is usually why Unrest was a bit more deadly than your average dungeon. Its possible this rule also applied to plane mobs, but I can't say for certain.

I do remember standing idly around on the bridge in Karnors, having a huge train run by me. I would run to one of the sides and keep a safe distance, and once the trainer zoned, the npc's would walk back to their spawn points, without having added me to their hate list. IF I was fighting another drovlarg while they trained by me, THEN they would have added me to their list.

If anyone else has other specifics, please feel free to post.

[Omnimorph]

This is more or less correct, at least from my memory. In general, if you were standing around and someone trained an NPC by you, that NPC would add you to its hate list if you:
1.) Were fighting a mob that is on an assist faction to the NPC running by you.
2.) Cast a heal/buff/positive spell on the person doing the training
3.) Were sitting down (maybe?)
4.) I cast a negative spell or damage the NPC being trained

There were some exceptions to this rule, namely with undead like regular skeletons which would add any players to their hate list as long as they were in proximity. This is usually why Unrest was a bit more deadly than your average dungeon. Its possible this rule also applied to plane mobs, but I can't say for certain.

I do remember standing idly around on the bridge in Karnors, having a huge train run by me. I would run to one of the sides and keep a safe distance, and once the trainer zoned, the npc's would walk back to their spawn points, without having added me to their hate list. IF I was fighting another drovlarg while they trained by me, THEN they would have added me to their list.

If anyone else has other specifics, please feel free to post.

Undead definitely just trained onto anyone in the way. I *think* the same applied to the sentrys (the smaller ones who were always on kos faction) in karnor.

Then there were the faction drolvs who assisted the others but with initial faction weren't kos (to a DE ench)

[Ditka]

This is more or less correct, at least from my memory. In general, if you were standing around and someone trained an NPC by you, that NPC would add you to its hate list if you:
1.) Were fighting a mob that is on an assist faction to the NPC running by you.
2.) Cast a heal/buff/positive spell on the person doing the training
3.) Were sitting down (maybe?)
4.) I cast a negative spell or damage the NPC being trained

There were some exceptions to this rule, namely with undead like regular skeletons which would add any players to their hate list as long as they were in proximity. This is usually why Unrest was a bit more deadly than your average dungeon. Its possible this rule also applied to plane mobs, but I can't say for certain.

I do remember standing idly around on the bridge in Karnors, having a huge train run by me. I would run to one of the sides and keep a safe distance, and once the trainer zoned, the npc's would walk back to their spawn points, without having added me to their hate list. IF I was fighting another drovlarg while they trained by me, THEN they would have added me to their list.

If anyone else has other specifics, please feel free to post.

Would giants like sand giants be different than the average mob? I can't say for certain about regular mobs, but I know sand giants would kill anyone meditating and most likely anyone real close.