5 Man Group Coming Up!

[Rabkorik]

So I told my friends (who have never played Everquest before) about this server and they agreed to play. After this week (finals week) we are going to hopefully get rolling! Looking forward to some good times and showing them what an actual game is (they've played WoW and that's it for online).

Our group is looking like it's going to be:
Monk / Bard
Wizard
Shaman
Rogue
(Not sure here, maybe Shadowknight)

I have a few questions. If we don't have a real tank, would the monk be able to tank the majority of group content? And, if we do end up having our fifth slot as a tank, would a monk or a bard be a better choice? I'll be playing the monk or the bard so I can handle the pulling and the guiding.

Also, without trying to beg, would anyone be willing to throw out a few ports and binds for us to get us together (telling them where to go for the first time would be a nightmare!)?

Thank you everyone, and a big thank you to the dev team. I am looking forward to showing my friends a good time!

[Malrubius]

Should be able to get binds np. Ports? Ehh, level to 3 or 4 and hoof it - that can be the hazing ritual ;)

Send Talos a tell if he's online and he can bind y'all at the city you choose (I'd suggest FP for the central location).

Yes, you will probably want a main tank (SK is fine).

The big gap I see above is CC. Bard can help, but it's not pwnage CC like an Enchanter. A Chanter can really help a TON for single-group content, especially if dungeon crawling. CC, slow, haste, stuns, crack, and so on.

[Lonedrahon25]

You need a cleric, the shammy will be constantly OOM with no real tank.

[Pyrocat]

Monk/Bard will be hard pressed to keep aggro with a rogue and wizard in the group. Wizard would have to wait to nuke until like 50% or lower, and the rogue would have to have crappy DPS or learn to offtank well :)

[Pyrocat]

I would disagree that you NEED an enchanter, bards can CC quite well actually, and if they're played well a bard can keep several mobs mezzed at the same time and take hits much better than an enchanter when mez breaks.

[Rabkorik]

So if we made our group like so:

Bard
Wizard
Rogue
Shaman
Shadowknight / Paladin / Warrior

Would the Shaman be able to stay on top of heals then?

[L2Phantom]

Potentially, its a tough call. If he is primarily healing, his usefullness in other departments will be limited. It also depends on the gear your tank will have available and your puller.

[mgellan]

Personally I'd say you need a war/sk/pally then the bard can twist healing to help out the shammy, whose healing spells are a little limited - with a wizzy and a rogue you have dps so I'd go bard... if an SK you have fd pulling as well which will help out the bard to not need as much CC...

Regards,
Mg

[Dantes]

Good luck, tried to same thing and all but 2 of my friends backed out. The problem is, one of those remaining 2 is leveling 3 times faster than me so we can't group anyway, the other one is starting to leave me in the dust too. But it was a nice thought.

[Skope]

you have 5 people and not 1 is a cleric?

Cleric, pally/Sk, etc. etc. :P

[Gaimcap]

Speaking from my limited experience (21 levels) of shamanism... Maybe.

If you wanna go smoothly you'll all have to do your roles very well. Otherwise you risk wiping when stuff gets hairy and you'll have a lot of downtime :(. Unfortunately I really do think you need another OH or a MH if you intend to have a group that can keep on rolling w/o having to stop for healer mana too often. That or else just be able to instagib and split pull everything (I've had a group with 2 mages, 1 enchanter, 1 monk, and a wiz that worked even though we didn't have a tank because stuff just DROPPED like mad)

[astarothel]

What I would go with for an ideal 5 man:

Cleric
Enchanter
SK/Warr
Shaman
Wizard/Druid

[guineapig]

Just keep in mind that your shaman won't get a 300hp heal till around level 29.
Granted your DPS looks to be really good but in the case of taking on red conned named mobs and bad pulls it might get dicey.

[AR3151]

man if they have only played wow this will be alot on them....

and no cleric?

i would go with what astarothel said, that combo is probably your best.

[guineapig]

(they've played WoW and that's it for online).




Just noticed this. You need to let them know that class balancing is much more strict in EQ than it was in WoW and as such all healers are not equal at healing. All tanks are not equal at tanking. etc...

If you have a druid, a chanter and a paly then you have every ability in the game available to you at one point or another while leveling up (except for FD).

If you replace the paly with a shadow knight then you absolutely need to add a cleric to the mix because you will loose the ability to rez in your group.

The goal should be to have all abilities available in your group and double up on the most important ones (in this case having a backup healer).

The abilities to think of are:

heal, slow, haste, mez, charm, snare, invis, root, FD, rez, port, sow, invis vs. undead, etc...
You get the idea.

[Weekapaug]

So if we made our group like so:

Bard
Wizard
Rogue
Shaman
Shadowknight / Paladin / Warrior

Would the Shaman be able to stay on top of heals then?

I'm jealous...I wish I could get 4 of my friends from the old days to come play! Might have one in the bag but I'll believe it when I see it. lol

You will save yourself infinate headaches by including a cleric somehow. You just can't beat their raw healing power and buffs, not to mention rezzes and they only get more powerful as the game progresses. Hell, just having a perma-rezzer at your disposal for 5 people alone, is like gold. Besides, you have the luxury of rolling with a whole crew of RL friends. Why stretch yourself thin with healing when you are about to be in a position to be able to do anything any other group can do, but with just your friends?

Given your setup, as much as I love bards, personally, I would trade the bard for a cleric. Sure you lose your CC and dedicated puller, but SKs are fantastic pullers and have FD. Clerics have the Lull line of spells which can also be used for breaking camps, so you can work around not having a monk/bard do it, even if your tank chooses a war or pally. Actually, pallys get Lulls too, but I think they are lower level than the cleric's.

You lose some of the utility of the bard, but look at it this way...you have a 5 man group with a slot for a 6th you can find from the general playerbase....You will have a much easier time recruiting a bard / monk/ chanter...whatever you want...day in and day out than you will a cleric or a tank. And my experience in the past in this and other games is when you are running a perma group with friends that has a slot or two available, most often you wind up finding someone who plays the same times with you to consistently fill that spot anyway. Who wouldn't want to?

[AR3151]

Just noticed this. You need to let them know that class balancing is much more strict in EQ than it was in WoW and as such all healers are not equal at healing. All tanks are not equal at tanking. etc...

If you have a druid, a chanter and a paly then you have every ability in the game available to you at one point or another while leveling up (except for FD).

If you replace the paly with a shadow knight then you absolutely need to add a cleric to the mix because you will loose the ability to rez in your group.

The goal should be to have all abilities available in your group and double up on the most important ones (in this case having a backup healer).

The abilities to think of are:

heal, slow, haste, mez, charm, snare, invis, root, FD, rez, port, sow, invis vs. undead, etc...
You get the idea.


to this, listen WOW was fast paced and easy, this classic is not easy and not fast paced for people who only know WOW.

[vinx]

Go with 4 mages and a cleric :D

[Fawqueue]

I have to wish you better luck than I've had with this endeavor. If you'd said "I have five friends, all of us long-time, solid classic EQ fans" then you'd have a better chance of everyone sticking it out. My last attempt, a buddy of mine was all stoked and talking shit to our other friends about how much better EQ is than all the current MMO's and acting tough (he'd played EQ during PoP). He madea toon, took a five minute run from Kelethin to Butcherblock, then told me "I don't think I can play this game". I haven't seen him online since. So before you start, make sure your buddies have realistic expectations of EQ! (It's hard, the graphics suck, leveling isn't accomplished in two weeks, etc)

[maultar]

Problem with mages and cleric is the clerics ability to target the pet for heals. Is there a UI or some preffered way for the cleric to target a pet since they dont show up in group window? Just have a /target xxxxx macro and change the name every day? Surely there is something better.

[CPTMULLER]

Isn't it double tap the F# key of the player?

[Lonedrahon25]

Just double tap whatever F# they are twice, it auto targets the players pet.

[maultar]

Thanks guys, so yes all mages and a cleric would kick serious ass. Who needs CC at that point.

[Weekapaug]

I have to wish you better luck than I've had with this endeavor. If you'd said "I have five friends, all of us long-time, solid classic EQ fans" then you'd have a better chance of everyone sticking it out. My last attempt, a buddy of mine was all stoked and talking shit to our other friends about how much better EQ is than all the current MMO's and acting tough (he'd played EQ during PoP). He madea toon, took a five minute run from Kelethin to Butcherblock, then told me "I don't think I can play this game". I haven't seen him online since. So before you start, make sure your buddies have realistic expectations of EQ! (It's hard, the graphics suck, leveling isn't accomplished in two weeks, etc)

I've had this kind of thing happen at least 3 or 4 times over the last 5-8 years with old friends who PLAYED EQ during the classic era. And this was during later expansions when everything got all dumbed down. The thing is, as easy as things like travel and whatnot got, the game is still harder (or was last time I played 3 years ago) than pretty much every game out there, so far as I know. They just can't handle the challenges anymore after playing on ezmode for so long.

[maultar]

It's amazing I've stopped playing spoonfed EQ2 for this. I like EQ2 though. It's better than WoW. Was neat to see redone zones. Quests in Chardok were fun. But nothing beats the original.

[Rabkorik]

Haha thanks guys we are currently talking and deciding which roll everyone would like to perform with a cleric for sure being in the mix. The reason I wanted to play as a bard or monk was because pulling would be difficult for people that don't know the game. And as a bard, I can add a little CC in the mix as well. Also, I realize that this probably won't work out in the end but it's fun to dream isn't it?!

Also, they know what EQ is about, they've heard the horror stories :P

[ulrich]

I would suggest everyone picks the class that sounds good to them after reading the descriptions at character creation.

If you want the most powerful group it is obviously 5 mages chaining pets. maybe 4 mages + cleric for rezes. You could argue 4 enchanters + 1 cleric. Or 4 necros + 1 cleric.

I would play the game for the fun of it though and not to be the most powerful like everyone else does.

[Rabkorik]

I would suggest everyone picks the class that sounds good to them after reading the descriptions at character creation.

If you want the most powerful group it is obviously 5 mages chaining pets. maybe 4 mages + cleric for rezes. You could argue 4 enchanters + 1 cleric. Or 4 necros + 1 cleric.

I would play the game for the fun of it though and not to be the most powerful like everyone else does.

I like the thought of this but I want to be able to do some group content (dungeons) and not have our experience downplayed by lack of a certain role.

[Malrubius]

I like the thought of this but I want to be able to do some group content (dungeons) and not have our experience downplayed by lack of a certain role.

Keep in mind too that there's always some people who will play (much) more than others. To keep in-level with the rest of the group, you should agree ahead of time that if somebody starts getting too far ahead, that they start ramping up an alt.

Having a couple of guys with more than one like-level character will then give your group more flexibility to plug-and-play based on the needs of a particular zone.

[Tallenn]

Here is my recommendation:

Cleric - Heals
Enchanter - CC, buffs, slows
Druid - just all around LOTS of utility- too much to list
War/SK/Pal - tank
Mag/Nec - major DPS

Out of those, several possibilities for pulling: SK, Enc, Necro, even druid all make good pullers.

I should have the ability to port by tomorrow some time, if not tonight. Be happy to help out.

[L2Phantom]

My ideal setup would be:

Warrior - Solid Tank
Cleric - Solid Healer w/Rez HP Buffs
Bard - Lull/Mez/Mana Song/Heal Song/Selo's/Group Invis/Group Buffs, etc.
Mage - Amazing DPS/Pet OT, Mod Rods
Druid - Ports, backup heals, snare, DPS, root, etc.

[taamas]

Here would be my suggestion for a great 5 man dungeon crawling group, for whatever it's worth to you. It really depends on the type of players you guys are though, so I split it up into two separate groups.

Casual gamers:
SK/Paladin
Cleric
Enchanter
Mage
Wizard/Rogue or Druid

More hardcore gamers, looking to join a raid guild:
Warrior
Cleric
Bard
Wizard
Shaman/Druid

Again, that just my two cents. But after all, it really comes down to whatever *you* want to play.

[Rabkorik]

I think we decided on something like this:

Tank (not sure what kind yet, suggestions?)
Bard
Cleric
Wizard
Rogue

The Wizard and the Rogue are very flexible and said they didnt care what they played. Also I felt a Bard would be more versatile than an Enchanter but wasn't sure if an Enchanter would make THAT much of a difference with superior CC.

[Jete]

Bard is where its at. And really you guys are fine with any set up. 4 of anything + 1 healer could take down anything. Just play what you will stick with and enjoy the classic experience! BTW...

Welcome to the server!

[astarothel]

I think we decided on something like this:

Tank (not sure what kind yet, suggestions?)
Bard
Cleric
Wizard
Rogue



With that set up _unless_ you take a warrior, your tank will be behind the curve due to exp penalty. You also don't have a heck of a lot of party buffs, but that's less of a big deal.

[nalkin]

Best 5 man set up:
mage
mage
mage
mage
mage

But if you are going to do the route you said, get an SK for sure. Best tanks for groups hands down.

Also, since the wizard is flexible I would have him go mage instead. Alot higher dps.

[nalkin]

With that set up _unless_ you take a warrior, your tank will be behind the curve due to exp penalty. You also don't have a heck of a lot of party buffs, but that's less of a big deal.

And true... didn't think of that. Also bard will have a bit of an xp penalty

[aVoided]

Wizard would have to wait to nuke until like 50%

Shouldn't they do this anyway? Let the mana free dps take care of it. Nothing annoys me worse than a wizard that's click happy and oom every other pull. I mean, really a wizard should toss in its one hammer nuke at 30-40% and take a seat. Now in a bad pull where lives are at stake, hell yeah having a wizzy unload is godly and group saving, but no need to blast every pull to pieces. A good wizzy will contain themselves unless it's an emergency. Just my 2 bits.

[Uaellaen]

I like the thought of this but I want to be able to do some group content (dungeons) and not have our experience downplayed by lack of a certain role.

there is absolutley Z E R O content you cant do with 4 mages and 1 cleric ... its basicly ripping trought every zone there is ... air pets come close to good equiped rogues DPS wise in classic ... the damage shields, best healer / HP buffer in game ...

hands down, you could do anything with that, there is no content excistant yet that you couldnt bring down with that ... besides death touching mobs because you will run out of people before the 32k hp are up :p (DTs hit the owner, not the pet)

it would be boring as heck thou, i would stick to a real group like you are planing to ...

warrior is awesome, a bit weak on agro holding in classic, only fixable with highend gear ... and the only true mana efficient raid tank, and even more so in kunark when defensive discipline is released ...

SK is a great agro holder, and for groups acceptable tank... but as raid tank ... nuh uh >< takes so much mana to keep those up ... you wont belive it ...

Paly good tank, also not so bad in holding agro when healing him self a bit / blinding / stunning mobs, all 3 good agro generators ... also rezing is a nice side effect, but will only become "good" once kunark is released since 90% rez is a lvl 59 paly spell ...

if you wanna tank on raids ever, go for a warrior ... if you wanna do group content, and participate in raids etc. pick what you like best ...

[Uaellaen]

oh forgot to add ... i realy like the rogue in your setup ...

a) very good scout, almost nothing can see trought stealth
b) very good for CRs, again, almost nothing can see trought sneak / hide ..
c) very good DPS, and the only DPS besides monk that can reduce the agro on them with a skill (rogues sneak / hide out of combat to reduce theyr hate, monks FD) even wizards need to wait till kunark for concussion ...

[Weekapaug]

oh forgot to add ... i realy like the rogue in your setup ...

a) very good scout, almost nothing can see trought stealth
b) very good for CRs, again, almost nothing can see trought sneak / hide ..
c) very good DPS, and the only DPS besides monk that can reduce the agro on them with a skill (rogues sneak / hide out of combat to reduce theyr hate, monks FD) even wizards need to wait till kunark for concussion ...

Totally. To me, so much of classic thru velious is about reducing downtime. The original designers were all about risk versus reward, so they stuck many of the best rewards deep in nasty dungeons that you have to travel thru massive zones (plural sometimes) just to get to. Kunark brought this to EQ in a big way and it continued in Velious.

Rogue + Cleric = Fast recovery from a full wipe in a bad place. Having the bard will help with that too some depending on where you are. You won't regret having both to work with the cleric on CRs when the massive Kunark zones are available and in dungeons alike.