ogre or troll shaman? starting stats

[daren]

Starting a shaman alt. Not sure if I want a troll shaman (regen + snare neck) or ogre shaman (higher stats & frontal stun immunity) The shaman will be used for soloing & farming.

Also, should I just all my bonus points in wisdom then sta? not sure what to do with my bonus points.

Any help would be appreciated, thanks!

[Skope]

Both are great. It's a matter of preference, I can tell you the differences between the two are negigible at 60.

Put your stats into wis and the rest into stam. you can quite easily max out the rest with buffs, and will need to load up on +HP gear anyway.

[Brut]

About ogre frontal stun immunity (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3144&highlight=frontal+stun)...

The stats that ogres/trolls have high (str, sta) aren't that tough to get high up there since you get wicked stats-buffs and eventually gear that provides plenty.

And yea, wis then sta.
If you go troll don't forget to pick Innoruuk as your deity or no necklace for joo. =X

[Omnimorph]

If stun immunity worked i'd say ogre, but as things are i think troll regen might be the most beneficial at the moment.

[daren]

sounds like from reading the link, that frontal stun immunity is now working properly. no?


About ogre frontal stun immunity (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3144&highlight=frontal+stun)...

The stats that ogres/trolls have high (str, sta) aren't that tough to get high up there since you get wicked stats-buffs and eventually gear that provides plenty.

And yea, wis then sta.
If you go troll don't forget to pick Innoruuk as your deity or no necklace for joo. =X

[Brut]

Judging from fighting specs that interrupted me 50/50 chance with normal melee... Nope.

[Omnimorph]

Judging from fighting specs that interrupted me 50/50 chance with normal melee... Nope.

Interrupted, or stunned? Just because you have frontal stun immunity doesn't mean you can channel through anything just beating on you :)

Example, when they bashed you did it say "you have been stunned!"

I don't play an ogre so i have no clue :)

[Brut]

with normal melee

Observed it plenty of times; something double-attacks during a round of melee, misses one hit, misses bash/kick, hits once... and I'm interrupted. It doesn't have to be bash. Normal melee does it as well. And it does it awful lot.

Ogres won't get stun messages unless they attack you from behind/sides. The spell doesn't get interrupted (as in cut short while still casting) if you get bashed, but you just get the interrupt-message once finished as if you had moved alot or something. Guess it's to count the whole pushback-thing which doesn't work proper on emu. Backing against a wall won't help, you just get interrupted frequently by normal melee.

[girth]

Which is brutal. I can't ever get FD off with more than 1 or 2 mobs on me. Their interrupt chance is ridiculously high thru normal melee, and it hurts BADLY.

[Omnimorph]

Pretty sure this is as it's intended. Normal melee always has a chance to interrupt you when casting, i don't know the formulae involved, but it will go against your channeling and some other things probably.

Frontal stun immunity means just that, you won't get stunned ("you have been stunned!"), but interrupting your casting is still possible (I mean, you're an ogre for christ's sake! someone flashes you something shiny should interrupt your casting...)

At higher levels with higher channeling you can probably channel through alot more, where as a darkelf enchanter i can still get stunned by greenies :/

[Brut]

Which is where ogres had their advantage, they'd get far less interrupts than rest of the races. Most folks who played one can vouch that they hardly ever had to worry about interrupts, especially if they backed into a corner. If you moved backwards, THEN you got interrupted.

Personally I remember clearly occasions of having 5+ mobs on me due to bad pulls, and casting Gate. I wasn't worried if I'd get interrupted by their melee - I was worried if I'd stay alive long enough to finish casting it.

[guineapig]

Personally I prefer Troll for shaman due to their added regen which benefits our Canni ability and the previously mention Inny snare necklace we can get.

I think being able to snare kite mobs for a class that normally can't do that is a huge benefit!

[girth]

What made melee interrupt spells was the push back.

As stated by a dev IIRC, NPC melee does not push like on Live, so they implemented a base chance on npc melee to interrupt your spell cast. This is horrible though for ogres who are used to backing against a wall or corner, which on live would basically make you immune from push back interrupts which let you cast all day long since you cannot be stunned either unless its a spell stun.

Also, because of the way this works currently, I cannot tell if I can cast through a bash yet or not. I take damage from npc bash but I cannot tell what causes interrupts so yeah its brutal as an Ogre tank currently.

[Skope]

the cast time (6 seconds) on the necklace and the low % of snare/dmg means that recasts (even with a shammy SoW) will be a little difficult unless rooted. If the mob dies within that time frame then the snare necklace wasn't needed in the first place. It's a nice tool, but don't pick a race b/c of an overrated item. It's fantastic to start off a 1v1 encounter with a mob, but that's essentially where it's use ends.

Ogre frontal stun immunity means that you can have an easier time in between slowed swings. For anyone that's played a shammy at high end, you'll know what i mean. You time your spells after the mob swings so to hit without being interrupted/stunned. Ogres don't have to worry about the latter and thus have a somewhat easier time nailing those casts on the first attempt. Post-classic shammies will rarely root a mob considering their slows are so powerful, therefore melee shammies really start to bloom during kunark and an ogre's frontal stun immunity is a decent benefit.

Troll regen is fantastic in that it scales with level. But with a Fungi and shammy spell regens the Troll regen is just an added bonus and not game-breaking.

I meant what i said, the differences are negligible at 60. Pick what you'd like to look at, because personally I avoided them both simply b/c i can't stand the graphic :P

[AstyTZ]

I played a 65 troll shaman until mid-PoP on live, and then a 60 troll shaman one of the live progression servers (cant remember which one I was on). My 65 shaman had the snare necklace... I accidentally rolled CT on the other shaman, and honestly I dint miss the necklace at all. I can attest to Skopes post... The cast time is long, the duration is short (48 seconds maybe?) and the snare % is not very great. The only time I really found it useful was root rotting frogs in PoStorm, because they hit like trucks. As stated earlier, shamans can tank a mob fairly well with a slow, and root rotting isnt used as much later on as it is in the classic era.

Oh, and I had a 60 barb shaman on VZ/TZ. Not that it makes a huge difference, but Im sticking to troll or ogre from now on. I rolled ogre this time around and Im very satisfied. I always wished i had the stun immunity on my trolls, and now i finally have it. Extremely useful for when you get a slow resist in dungeons/planes and you need to channel another one asap.

[AstyTZ]

Sorry if my last post is hard to read, Im posting from my crappy phone. It doesnt even give me an apostrophe on the browsers touch keyboard.

The troll regen is a nice bonus, but not gamebreaking like mentioned above. One thing that is really awesome about rolling an Inny shaman though is the repeatable halfling illusion mask. Honestly, that was ten times better than the snare necklace to me. I was amazed at the amount of people that had no idea about that item. When I joined my first endgame raiding guild, I used the mask and many people flipped out, and these were some of the premiere players on my server. And let me just mention, a halfling with a Spear of Fate looks amazing lol.

[AstyTZ]

Oh, one more thing that I found useful about the neck was stopping running mobs in dungeons. If your dot wears off when the mob is at 4%, having to waste mana on a nuke/root/dot is quite annoying, but you gotta kill them before thy wander down to another mob. Hit them with the necklace and then you can melee it down and save your mana. Since I played on TZ originally, I didnt have the luxury of grouping with a ranger, bard, or druid, so a lot of times we had a group with no snarer in a dungeon, and Id use the necklace for the sam purpose. But this is more a luxury than a necessity, so really your decision should be regen (and the mask lol) vs frontal stun immunity and much greater sta. And whichever you think looks cooler.

[WailinOndem]

I played a Rallos Zek Ogre Shaman from the get go.The no frontal stun appealed to me along with the toughness of ogres but in all honesty the no stun bonus really didnt start to shine until Velious raiding.Sure the Trolls had better regen and levelled a bit faster because of it over the yrs i played,but once Velious came along there were many,many encounters where all the troll shaman were laying dead on the ground while I was still standing,facing a mob and happily casting away. In the beginning though I mostly chose the Ogre because he was a big,badass, intimidating looking beast and not alot were around.7 1/2 years into the game and I was the only RZ Shaman on my server(ogre cultural armors with imbued jades).You'd think more would have been around for the no stun ability and its usefulness on raids,but Kunark brought about Iksar shaman that regen'd hps even faster then trolls and better starting stats so there were alot of leezurds running about

[bionicbadger]

... Kunark brought about Iksar shaman that regen'd hps even faster then trolls

I thought the regen rate was the same on iksar and trolls?

[Gweed]

Sorry if my last post is hard to read, Im posting from my crappy phone. It doesnt even give me an apostrophe on the browsers touch keyboard.

The troll regen is a nice bonus, but not gamebreaking like mentioned above. One thing that is really awesome about rolling an Inny shaman though is the repeatable halfling illusion mask. Honestly, that was ten times better than the snare necklace to me. I was amazed at the amount of people that had no idea about that item. When I joined my first endgame raiding guild, I used the mask and many people flipped out, and these were some of the premiere players on my server. And let me just mention, a halfling with a Spear of Fate looks amazing lol.

I assume you mean the mask you get while doing the necklace quest? I didn't know that was repeatable. That makes me giggle

[WailinOndem]

it is now...but for first few months of Kunark there was some code they had a hard time nailing down(typical SOE/Verant foot dragging) that gave Iksar like +2 more regen and IIRC there was an iksar only item through quests that improved the regen even more. I didnt care 1 way or the other since if I was depending on a server tick of regen time to save my butt I was probably dead already with Lag issues back then and 5000+ people on a server

[bionicbadger]

I assume you mean the mask you get while doing the necklace quest? I didn't know that was repeatable. That makes me giggle

Yeah its neat to have, but doing that part over and over again, lowers your faction with the dead, so you have to do something to bump it up again because you don't want to get KOS to them, but getting dead faction is pretty easy too

[ciggwin]

i picked Barbarian... lower exp penalty iirc.

[daren]

Seems like the Ogre shaman is a good bet but depends on the frontal stun immunity which isn't entirely working...anyone know if this is going to be completely fixed?

Thanks for all the comments!

[km2783]

i picked Barbarian... lower exp penalty iirc.

I've been told there are no race penalties on this server? But usually, yes. According to the FAQ it'd be 5% for Barbarians, 15% for Ogres and 20% for Trolls.

[Malrubius]

I've been told there are no race penalties on this server? But usually, yes. According to the FAQ it'd be 5% for Barbarians, 15% for Ogres and 20% for Trolls.

There are race penalties on this server. The FAQ is correct.

[km2783]

Cool, figured someone would correct me if it was wrong.

Wish I knew who was spreading the misinformation, though, I only have it on hear-say anyway :rolleyes:

[Kazzok]

it is now...but for first few months of Kunark there was some code they had a hard time nailing down(typical SOE/Verant foot dragging) that gave Iksar like +2 more regen and IIRC there was an iksar only item through quests that improved the regen even more. I didnt care 1 way or the other since if I was depending on a server tick of regen time to save my butt I was probably dead already with Lag issues back then and 5000+ people on a server

Actually, I think the regen here is bugged like that as well. From what I remember of classic it was 2 sitting 4 standing for a troll at level 1, then 4 standing and 6 sitting (maybe 3/6) at level 20. Here, it is 4/6 at level 1.

[PhilPhans]

Seems like the Ogre shaman is a good bet but depends on the frontal stun immunity which isn't entirely working...anyone know if this is going to be completely fixed?

Thanks for all the comments!

looks fine to me. Spell interupts and actually getting stunned are two different things.

[WailinOndem]

Yeah,the 1 thing I forgot to post in my last post was that not being stunned was more valuable to me then few extra regen.As 1 person said,spell interupts are different then being stunned or at least it was when i played.Interupts were caused by 2 things back then,getting attacked and not having the particular spell class maxxed yet you were trying to cast.Being stunned meant you couldnt do anything at all including casting a next spell or run.Interupt you hit the button again and with maxxed casting skillz not being interuptable with a stun was priceless.Hope that made sense

[kevincheese]

Actually, I think the regen here is bugged like that as well. From what I remember of classic it was 2 sitting 4 standing for a troll at level 1, then 4 standing and 6 sitting (maybe 3/6) at level 20. Here, it is 4/6 at level 1.

I get maybe 10 sitting in troll illusion in the mid 20s as an enchanter, too.

Good stuff.

[girth]

looks fine to me. Spell interupts and actually getting stunned are two different things.

You are kinda right and kinda wrong. Our racial is pretty much shit at the moment. STUN immunity is working correctly it seems, but the current motion interrupt system on p1999 makes an Ogre have almost no advantage when it comes to getting a cast off.

We(ogres) should be able to cast all day long by negating the push such as standing in a corner or against a wall, but since its npc melee attacks and not their push that interrupts on p1999, we get interrupted even in a corner.

This severely impacts Ogres as we are used to combining no stuns with corners to be non interrupt-able machines basically.

Haynar knows this and is looking to implement some sort of fix sometime hopefully after finals. << taken from other thread

[PhilPhans]

i can't speak to 1999. cause i wasn't playing til late 2001. but it is acting no different on p1999.. then when i started with an ogre shaman in luclin on live. I still had to stand on walls and stuff not to get interupted.. channeling helped once it went up.

wait are you saying if i stand on a corner i will still get interupted?

[taamas]

i can't speak to 1999. cause i wasn't playing til late 2001. but it is acting no different on p1999.. then when i started with an ogre shaman in luclin on live. I still had to stand on walls and stuff not to get interupted.. channeling helped once it went up.

wait are you saying if i stand on a corner i will still get interupted?

Correct. It's been documented by the devs that they took out the melee push ability because it wasn't working right or something. If you played classic EQ you'll remember raid leader yelling at the melee to PUSH the mob into a corner/up against a wall hahahah. This "pushing" movement is what did the actual interrupting, not the melee attacks themselves. In P99, the "pushing" ability was taken out like I said, and the devs instead replaced it with melee attacks interrupting spells.

So Ogre frontal stun immunity is working, but because the melee attacks can interrupt now, it doesn't matter where you stand you'll still get interrupted.

[AstyTZ]

Indeed. Even after youve done the quest, you can go out and kill Master Whoopal or whatever his name is and turn his head in to the npc in Neriak Commons to get another mask. I probably did it at least 25 times on my old shaman lol.