ip exemptions no longer exist

[Smokey86]

made a request prob 3 months ago and havent gotten an acknowledgement that I exist, Lol. O well . Back to d3.

[Destan]

I know seriously, they need to start allowing you to play at least one account without an IP exemption!

Oh wait...

[shooteneq1]

some people like to play games with whoever else they have living at their house at the same time. I can fully understand playing something else if you cant get the exemption when your trying to play with another person. If my wife liked to play games and we couldnt get the exemption i would be playing something else as well. I know the devs do all this stuff for free and thats nice and appreciated, but with how much population the server has lost since i started playing in january you would think that more energy would be put into things that can increase player base.

[Tiggles]

They stopped doing exemptions when they found out the majority of the wives and friends and brothers are boxers.

P99s boxing detection program is pretty much foolproof and they have to listen to idiots like you lie to them on the daily.

Remember kids you downloaded a program that lets the staff look inside your computer at will.

[Emphase]

d3 is the reason i came back to eq. it fails so hard

[shooteneq1]

ive never asked for an exemption nor do i need one, but your insight that i am a liar is very interesting.

I am sure that there are people that do ask for exemptions that are boxers. There are also legit people that ask for them as well. 12 years ago when i played EQ i had 2 room mates and we all played at the same time. I am sure there are people here that are in the same situation. I would think it would be appropriate to give people the benefit of the doubt before you just start accusing everyone who asks for one a liar. Do you also believe we should just arrest people and make them prove their innocence rather than have evidence of possible guilt first? Its really not that hard to tell if someone in boxing once they are playing.

[Tr0llb0rn]

They stopped doing exemptions when they found out the majority of the wives and friends and brothers are boxers.



pretty much

Now if only they'd stop the selling of accounts/tradeing of accounts. Want a lvl 50 rogue? level one up, should not be allowed to buy one for 5k or wtf they go for.

[Scavrefamn]

I'll never understand why two-boxing scum comes to this server.
Every other server allows and even encourages two-boxing.

Why ply their scummy trade here where it is not allowed?

[Mith0r]

They stopped doing exemptions when they found out the majority of the wives and friends and brothers are boxers.

P99s boxing detection program is pretty much foolproof and they have to listen to idiots like you lie to them on the daily.

Remember kids you downloaded a program that lets the staff look inside your computer at will.

This is all well and fine, if true. But it would be nice to get some kind of acknowledgement or some kind of official confirmation from any one of the staff to officially shut people the fuck up about them.

But no, by all means let's instead have 10 new threads started every day over IP exemptions that turn into flame wars with know-it-all idiots saying "lol box?" after every other post. There can't possibly be two nerdy virgin low-life losers in one house hold at any given time that would want to play EQ together. I mean, the odds must be astronomical.

[envino]

My sons and I have played MMo's together since they were but tykes, it's a family tradition with us. I always have at least two accounts active on any MMO I play. So, naturally I applied for an IP exemption when I started back in February. I'm sure there are plenty of people like me who are legitimate, but who needs the accusations and the trolling. When we play together, we will play something else. Still glad P99 exists, however limited it might be, its still better than no EQ at all.

[Gratal]

Are the previous IP exemptions they allowed still in effect? Because my wife and I are wanting to play again and if we can't get on together I might as well not redownload it.

[gloine36]

My wife and I play together using our IP exemption. So they're still working. They responded to our request fairly quickly, but that was last year. I'm glad they work to combat the boxers. I hated it on live and I hated it in every game I played. When I played EQ2 the boxers ran multiple accounts and macroed them for tradeskill purposes getting all the ground spawns in an area. It got to the point where training those groups was a necessity in order to play the game.

[batkiller]

You guys would be better playing one of the other emu servers to be honest. There are others to choose from. It's a shame because as far as I know, P99 is the only one which limits it to kunark/velious era and keeps everything legit. The others have other expansions (which I don't like) and/or have too loose rules. But if you are desperate to play together, I can recommend those.

Hopefully some day they will do whatever they need to do to get petitions here answered faster.

[envino]

You guys would be better playing one of the other emu servers to be honest. There are others to choose from. It's a shame because as far as I know, P99 is the only one which limits it to kunark/velious era and keeps everything legit. The others have other expansions (which I don't like) and/or have too loose rules. But if you are desperate to play together, I can recommend those.

Hopefully some day they will do whatever they need to do to get petitions here answered faster.


I've thought about playing on another emu but to be honest its not worth the trouble to me...setting up a whole 'nother version of eq and so forth. Just keeping p99 running on my tower and my mac is a job in itself sometimes. So, in the meantime we've just been playing a bit o' the swtor.

To be honest I'm with the original poster, I think that the length of time that has gone by since the last IP exemptions were granted points more towards the admins not wishing to grant exemptions rather than any other reason. I can see why, with all the boxing problems. It's just a shame it has to be that way.

[batkiller]

Yup shame, probably another case of the few spoiling something for the many.

[Destan]

some people like to play games with whoever else they have living at their house at the same time. I can fully understand playing something else if you cant get the exemption when your trying to play with another person. If my wife liked to play games and we couldnt get the exemption i would be playing something else as well. I know the devs do all this stuff for free and thats nice and appreciated, but with how much population the server has lost since i started playing in january you would think that more energy would be put into things that can increase player base.

I wasn't suggesting that people don't enjoy playing together. My fiance and I play together all the time (outside of EQ, which she can't get into). My point was that it's not like you can ONLY play EverQuest at the same time to enjoy it. Rather than saying "No exemption, oh well good bye" you can take turns, play on off days, etc so that you still get to enjoy the game while you wait for your exemption to go through.

Honestly, that's more classic EQ than playing together. I remember having three of us huddled around the computer, taking hour shifts so that we could 'play together'. It was still enjoyable back then, I'm sure it could be again.

Unless of course, the reason for the exemption is the 'wife' who 'doesn't type, talk, or play with anyone else just enjoys duoing everything with me'. Which usually ends up being Captain Lonely and his two-boxing setup. I could see why that guy would refuse to play until his exemption went through...

[Ambrotos]

They are still working. At this moment Amelinda only does them. I'm not sure how they process it, but it is something I wouldn't mind helping on so they get done quicker.

Don't listen to the trolls.

[Slave]

it is something I wouldn't mind helping on so they get done quicker.

Whose [pet] do we have to [buff] around here to make this happen?

[webrunner5]

They are still working. At this moment Amelinda only does them. I'm not sure how they process it, but it is something I wouldn't mind helping on so they get done quicker.

Don't listen to the trolls.

This needs to happen!! We are losing new people that can make this server last.

[Maze]

They stopped doing exemptions when they found out the majority of the wives and friends and brothers are boxers.

P99s boxing detection program is pretty much foolproof and they have to listen to idiots like you lie to them on the daily.

Remember kids you downloaded a program that lets the staff look inside your computer at will.

[Harazzer]

Its been 60 days since i posted my request for an exemption. My roommate has to use his cell as a 2nd IP so we can play at the same time.

[colleekitty]

FYI Amelinda posted this (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=627799&postcount=121) about a week ago in the two-boxing thread. I bet there is large number of exemptions to go through, but it will happen soonish.

PS: To the people worried about ip exemptions, it's coming. real life & other stuff has gotten in the way. also computer problems got in the way.

just please be patient and do not pm me about them.

*EDIT*
Guess that was over 5 weeks ago, my bad =/

[Slave]

FYI Amelinda posted this (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=627799&postcount=121) about a week ago in the two-boxing thread. I bet there is large number of exemptions to go through, but it will happen soonish.

That was actually over 5 weeks ago.

[colleekitty]

That was actually over 5 weeks ago.

lol what month is this again? Fail reading skills on my part.

Well it sounds like she needs assistance or somethings not right.

[DoucLangur]

Now if only they'd stop the selling of accounts/tradeing of accounts. Want a lvl 50 rogue? level one up, should not be allowed to buy one for 5k or wtf they go for.
this!

I'll never understand why two-boxing scum comes to this server.
Because you have no advantage doing stuff where it is allowed. Only by being a stupid c*nt breaking the rules while the majority abides by them can you get an unfair advantage on pixels. Pathetic, but that is how cheaters are.

..

Slozem

[Weekapaug]

My gf and I got our exemption two years ago in fairly short order....about a week I think. We did not really play until we got it.

Last summer I reactivated my 4 daoc accounts and she started her own under the 2 week trial deal. She took to rvr like a fish to water, didn't mind boxing for pve (levelling in that game is mind numbing and is just something you do for rvr...and it goes much better if you box main, alts, and bots together I have found) , which was a first for her. When the two weeks were up, we were happily ready to subscribe all 5 accounts, except mythic, with the 300 player pop that game has at peak, had put a block on that only lets one account to be subscribed to per day from the same IP, ostensibly to fix a problem they had with credit card fraud they'd had or something. We had multiple toons set up to level together, free level timers to deal with, and this was all in the 40s when those things mattered. It was going to take a week to get back on track. Brilliant fix. We found something else to play and have never touched daoc since, much less ever subscribed.

I spent a decade in the post production side of the motion picture and tv industries, and honestly, this is really why techhie people aren't left in charge of major design decisions and things that directly affect the consumer. They have a tendency to fix broken arms by cutting the arm off...whatever is easiest for them rather than what works best for regular people. Not giving exemptions at all, or the net effect of that if people are waiting months, is arguably not the best fix for people boxing.

The devs and staff here have done a wonderful job and do the best they can with what they have to work with, and I'm sure they do it out of pure love of the project. And I'm sure there are good reasons for the delays. None of this is a slam on them. But it's silly to suggest that not giving exemptions in timely fashion doesn't affect weather or not people play. I can tell you first hand that it does.

If right now was 2 years ago, I have zero doubt that we would have headed to eqmac to play probably the 2nd day we were waiting for our exemption. When you have time to play together, you want to play. Not "make due." People play games for fun, not because they have to....Throw up roadblocks to the fun then don't be surprised when people find other options rather quickly.

[azxten]

whatever is easiest for them rather than what works best for regular people

I have mentioned this many times to the devs. That customer support is absolutely horrible here and is the primary reason that the population suffers. The response is always, "We don't have to do this. We do this on our free time. Be grateful, etc." However, this still ignores that it is a problem that could be solved by expanding the staff to include specific positions that don't need to be trusted with a whole lot.

There could be 2 people brought onto staff who do NOTHING but IP exemptions following a specific script created by Rogean/Nilbog with auditing procedures.

It's really the same reason most small businesses fail. The owner/creator refuses to relinquish control over some aspects of the business so that they can make time for growth. They can't stop working IN the business instead of ON the business and that is what has happened with P99.

I wish P99 had a streamlined method for working on the code base but this won't happen because the source code is so closely guarded. When asking about assisting with the code the response is usually to download EQemu code and then fork it to include your changes. However, there is no official outline on how to submit code changes, bug lists, etc.

I wish P99 allowed more guides who handled IP exemptions, community interaction, etc. People who have very little abusable powers but significantly lighten the load on higher tier staff members so they can focus on more important issues. It is always incredibly disheartening to hear "I WOULD be making Velious if I didn't have to deal with all the crying from raid guild disputes!" or whatever. Developers shouldn't be dealing with raid disputes in the first place so it's a moot point.

Basically, it sucks that there are literally hundreds of applicants in the guide section on these forums and still only a grand total of like 4-5 people on staff here while it takes months to get something as simple as an IP exemption.

As always, I'm grateful for the project but in my opinion it would benefit significantly from allowing more community participation on the management side of things. Currently I view P99 as very much in a dying state rather than thriving. The economy has crashed, playerbase is shrinking, and it now takes longer to get basic services like IP exemptions than it did years ago.

[Slave]

There are two amazingly insightful posts above mine; everyone do yourselves a big favor and peruse them carefully. Then ask yourselves, can we not do better? This is an amazing game, easily one of the best ever made. It should be overflowing with players right now, but somehow isn't, largely for the reasons outlined above.

[Hitchens]

There probably should be more people on the management side, but I can understand their reluctance to bring more people on board. It's hard to really vet people when your contact with them is solely through the Internet and the Internet is full of unstable weirdos.

[azxten]

It's hard to really vet people when your contact with them is solely through the Internet and the Internet is full of unstable weirdos.

This is why you use them for positions that can't do any real damage, like IP exemptions. Sure, some boxers might get IP exemptions faster but that's why you have auditing. Track who granted the IP exemptions and then when you're banning boxers you occasionally check how many bans were associated with specific IP exemption granters. Establish an average across all the people in the position and remove people who are higher than the average.

[fadetree]

It may be hard to give someone the ability to 'do ip exceptions' without giving them ability to do a lot of other stuff. You are assuming that control is fine grained enough to protect areas; in my experience things usually boil down to editing source or config files or tables directly.

[Atmas]

There are two amazingly insightful posts above mine; everyone do yourselves a big favor and peruse them carefully. Then ask yourselves, can we not do better? This is an amazing game, easily one of the best ever made. It should be overflowing with players right now, but somehow isn't, largely for the reasons outlined above.

The unfortunate thing about those posts is that they compare P99 to a business, which it is not. They actually use the words "business" and "customer support" as well as make comparisons to exisitng businesses. People acknowledge that this server is produced by people with other real world obligations, but they don't really.

First off, though I have no doubt it contributes, I really don't think the IP exemption issue is the major factor in server population decline. I think that can more likely be attributed to the large amount of time between expansion releases. People know more now and were able to level faster but have been given less content over the span of time they have been playing as compared to live. There are also many new games out there and it seems odd that everyone would expect a 13 year old game to be played indefinitely.

Secondly, it doesn't take much to f up the server. IP exemeptions are probably not even in the top 5 issues for server population. I think we have lost more accounts do to MQing and RMT bans and penalties. Which in a round about way that may only make sense to my own non-linear mind is why you really have to be careful to avoid allowing rule breaking to happen. While I think cheaters should be punished I can't help but lament how the server population gets diminshed. I think many of them would still be playing if they were never able to cheat in the first place.

[azxten]

It may be hard to give someone the ability to 'do ip exceptions' without giving them ability to do a lot of other stuff. You are assuming that control is fine grained enough to protect areas; in my experience things usually boil down to editing source or config files or tables directly.

Yes, but this is what I mean about working on a business instead of in it. Instead of continually doing work that will always need to be done you should be working on eliminating or off loading work to free up your time.

It's kind of like imagining the manger of a McDonalds being too busy cooking fries to do anything else because it's "too hard to protect the cash drawer" to trust anyone to cook the fries. No, it's not too hard to protect the cash drawer if you take the time to put a safe in the store and instruct the people cooking fries to put their money in the safe every 2 hours. Then you find that you have the time to work on more important things than cooking fries and the cash drawer safety issue has been eliminated because only you have access to the safe.

[Slave]

I was actually going to post "inb4 this isn't a business" but I thought I'd go the intellectual and positive route instead.

[azxten]

The unfortunate thing about those posts is that they compare P99 to a business, which it is not. They actually use the words "business" and "customer support" as well as make comparisons to exisitng businesses. People acknowledge that this server is produced by people with other real world obligations, but they don't really.

It is a project that relies heavily upon a community being interested in the project and the same rules apply to this that apply to a business. The whole "real world obligations" thing falls flat when you remember that you have hundreds of volunteers for a community with thousands of members that has a current staff size of 4. It's purely a lack of focusing on allowing those volunteers to contribute instead.

There could easily be a 10 person development team, 20 guides, multiple server technicians to resolve login server down, etc. I'm so sick of hearing about "they have real world obligations so they're too busy to take advantage of all the volunteers offering to reduce that load."

You then go on to claim IP exemptions don't matter, it's the lack of expansion, etc. Well, how much farther would that be along if Rogean/Nilbog/Amelinda never had to do an IP exemption? Lack of focus on the small things, the details, will always kill projects.

There is a reason why this server never grows beyond 1,000 players. It's because there is only so many players a team of 4, with really 2 of them having any power, can support.

Every time the population surges guild disputes explode over raid content, developers stop producing content and start policing the server, the petition queue explodes. Everything reaches critical mass until enough people get sick of it and quit and then finally the population shrinks back to a manageable size for the size of management.

You can use the whole "not a business line" all you want but this is still a project, with users, that requires management and that management refuses to grow with the user base and so the user base will never grow.

[Hitchens]

The problem with looking at it from a business perspective is that a business cannot exist without customers, but an emulated server can continue existing regardless of whether anyone actually plays on it. All that is required is the owner continue paying the bills.

[azxten]

The problem with looking at it from a business perspective is that a business cannot exist without customers, but an emulated server can continue existing regardless of whether anyone actually plays on it. All that is required is the owner continue paying the bills.

You would be surprised how many businesses exist with no customers following that same logic. :)

Of course, they aren't successful if you consider success to be making money and neither would an emulated server with no players on it be a success if you consider success to be having a user base. Hell, maybe Nilbog doesn't want a large project. That's respectable, it's a lot of work to step back and manage a larger project. He may intentionally want to keep this server at a low population to reduce work load. It is still his project.

[Hitchens]

You would be surprised how many businesses exist with no customers following that same logic. :)

Not in the context you provided with the McDonald's example. ;)

There's most likely differing definitions of what defines a successful server and that's why this discussion happens rather frequently.

[Atmas]

It is a project that relies heavily upon a community being interested in the project and the same rules apply to this that apply to a business. The whole "real world obligations" thing falls flat when you remember that you have hundreds of volunteers for a community with thousands of members that has a current staff size of 4. It's purely a lack of focusing on allowing those volunteers to contribute instead.

There could easily be a 10 person development team, 20 guides, multiple server technicians to resolve login server down, etc. I'm so sick of hearing about "they have real world obligations so they're too busy to take advantage of all the volunteers offering to reduce that load."

You then go on to claim IP exemptions don't matter, it's the lack of expansion, etc. Well, how much farther would that be along if Rogean/Nilbog/Amelinda never had to do an IP exemption? Lack of focus on the small things, the details, will always kill projects.

There is a reason why this server never grows beyond 1,000 players. It's because there is only so many players a team of 4, with really 2 of them having any power, can support.

Every time the population surges guild disputes explode over raid content, developers stop producing content and start policing the server, the petition queue explodes. Everything reaches critical mass until enough people get sick of it and quit and then finally the population shrinks back to a manageable size for the size of management.

You can use the whole "not a business line" all you want but this is still a project, with users, that requires management and that management refuses to grow with the user base and so the user base will never grow.

I did not say IP exemptions do not matter. To concatenate what I wrote: I think it contributes but is not one of the top 5 issues influencing server population.

The number of volunteers isn't the only relevant factor. I'm sure if you have been involved in a hiring process you understand that. I can definitely understand after putting hundreds of hours into a project not being overly willing to give access to people who you only have brief online contact with the ability to destroy it.

Also if I am incorrect about population being tied to new content, explain why the biggest surge in numbers came after Kunark was released? Do you really think if IP exemptions were handled and whatever other unnamed issues you have with support were resolved but no new content came out the population would never decrease?

I can use the "not a business line" because their motives aren't financial. If they add more people to the deveopment team, in addition to more coordination being necessary there is a loss of control. If they don't want to lose that control it is their choice.

[fadetree]

Yes, but this is what I mean about working on a business instead of in it. Instead of continually doing work that will always need to be done you should be working on eliminating or off loading work to free up your time.

It's kind of like imagining the manger of a McDonalds being too busy cooking fries to do anything else because it's "too hard to protect the cash drawer" to trust anyone to cook the fries. No, it's not too hard to protect the cash drawer if you take the time to put a safe in the store and instruct the people cooking fries to put their money in the safe every 2 hours. Then you find that you have the time to work on more important things than cooking fries and the cash drawer safety issue has been eliminated because only you have access to the safe.

True enough, its just that building out a system whereby you can safely farm out certain edits and classes of jobs/tasks is usually not a simple matter. You need a system of permissions, data that describes these permissions, user structures that work with these permissions, web interfaces to allow protected edits to various entities...all wrapped on top of what is essentially a big set of code files and some db tables that have no intrinsic protections. Its often not as simple as just buying a safe and instructing people.

[nilbog]

IP exemptions are being completed. There are plans in the works to alleviate this issue for the future.

Amelinda currently does the exemptions. Long ago, I did them, and let me tell you... it is time-consuming. Rogean created an alternate in-game command which helps speed this along.

Anyways, IP exemptions do exist and I am in the process of decreasing the wait time.

[Mith0r]

Tyvm!

[Lazortag]

I just got the most recent exemption I requested a couple hours ago, so they are being done. This one batch seemed to take a very long time but every other exemption I requested (I have lots of accounts) took less than 2 weeks. I think one reason it's time consuming is that they have to check every account for hacks.

[envino]

I just got mine :) :) :) yes yes YES!

[Lagaidh]

I'll never understand why two-boxing scum comes to this server.
Every other server allows and even encourages two-boxing.

Why ply their scummy trade here where it is not allowed?

Because if they can pull it off while on this server, they have a distinct advantage over non-boxers. If they box on another server, they're just staying even with the pack.

Of course, boxers normally are rooted out- so it's only a temporary thrill.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

2 boxers, or whatever aren't 'scum'. Quit being dramatic.

[Weekapaug]

IP exemptions are being completed. There are plans in the works to alleviate this issue for the future.

Amelinda currently does the exemptions. Long ago, I did them, and let me tell you... it is time-consuming. Rogean created an alternate in-game command which helps speed this along.

Anyways, IP exemptions do exist and I am in the process of decreasing the wait time.

That's awesome, Nilbog. Thank you for everything you guys are doing.

I've not applied in the guides section, which I should do, but I have offered publicly and privately my time if there is anything you guys need help with...I've always thought of it in terms of testing since I've been in a few betas in my time, but if there is anything at all you guys need help with, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm an original 99er from live, a gamer of 30 odd years in its various forms, and I have no major guild affiliations here (for the moment)....I'm a 42 year old adult who has largely played casually here for two years off and on. I've loved what you guys have done here since I first stumbled on the website 2 years ago...Not to mention, I'll always be grateful for your creating a classic experience so my girlfriend could see it for herself. If there is anything at all, please don't hesitate.

[achtung]

Let this man share in the groove.

And thanks Nilbog!

[Fuma]

glad to hear this is being worked out, been waiting on exemption since early april. we've been playing on other servers but we'd definitely would like to play together on this server. for those who got their exemptions when did you first petition it?

[Mith0r]

glad to hear this is being worked out, been waiting on exemption since early april. we've been playing on other servers but we'd definitely would like to play together on this server. for those who got their exemptions when did you first petition it?

Glad to hear there's progress here as well, and I'm also curious as to when those who've been approved for their exemptions put in their petition. Mine wasn't granted yet either (for my brother, LOL BOX?) <--being sarcastic of course ..... But I've only just put my petition in about a month ago.

[Weekapaug]

Let this man share in the groove.

And thanks Nilbog!

Hell ya!

--Weekapaug Gruvin (that's Dr. Cactus, to you nubs :P)

[Uthagain]

They stopped doing exemptions when they found out the majority of the wives and friends and brothers are boxers.

P99s boxing detection program is pretty much foolproof and they have to listen to idiots like you lie to them on the daily.

Remember kids you downloaded a program that lets the staff look inside your computer at will.

I thought they pulled that after rogean got spooked when people started threatening over privacy laws? Especially since it is sort of illegal to collect that information without consent.