is wow the best MMORPG ever?

[funhorroryes]

guys i am starting to think that WOW is the best and only MMORPG that will ever have a huge consistant player base.

i personally played it 1 - 60 and loved it, i quit after however because i couldnt be bothered going through the whole re gear after each expansion that i'd been through several times with EQ.

i know you are all going to start bagging WOW, but seriously, think about it.. it has so many players, it even has online dating websites for people aimed towards WoW players.

every time a new MMORPG comes out and fails people just say 'it copied wow too much' what if it isnt insanely possible to make an MMORPG that isn't virtual reality because it just copies wow all the time because bliz literally just made the best MMORPG ever?

think about it.

[Urbanzkopf]

If it was the best MMO they wouldn't be doing everything in their power to draw the people who left back ;). Free cataclysm, free level 80, free name change, free server Xfer etc etc.

It will take a long time... but it will eventually spiral into a lot smaller playerbase. Plus they are working on a new MMO but not a lot of info about it out there atm.

EDIT: I do agree though WoW 1-60 was darn good... even TBC was actually really neat... Wotlk was when things turned sour for me.

[Swish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-TiYRBSkK0

Watch that just to be sure.

[Swish]

Also, Death Knights killed PvP...whatever that grab move was, they didn't think it through. Turned large scale PvP into a joke for all the melee classes.

Then making the Kung Fu Panda expansion - there's no coming back from that.

[waldo]

in my opinion no wow isn't the best mmo. It just came around at the right time and utilized the casual gamers. It was a whole different style than i like to play.

[SamwiseBanned]

eq1 definately the best mmo overall however wow vanilla had some of the best world pvp I've ever seen. city raids, huge battles at windmills, rip vanilla wow.

[Slave]

WoW was EverQuest For Dummies, which as it turns out, there are a lot of. You will never go broke appealing to the lowest common denominator.

[Clark]

EQ1 and Shadowbane for sure

[Bruman]

Depends on how you define best. It's going to mean different things to different people, obviously, but if you're looking at it globally, then you the only real objective thing you can look at is it's success. That would obviously make it high up there as one of the best. I've heard that some Asian MMOs have crazy amounts of subscribers too, but I don't know if they compare to WoW or not.

[MrSparkle001]

Overall I think maybe yeah it was the best. EQ could have had the crown but for a few shortcomings: it didn't incorporate PvP into it's overall gameplay (just having PvP-enabled servers is not the same), and the lack of instancing meant the game became a campfest. You get home from work or school and want to play for a bit and every single dungeon in your level range is camped to hell and back. Ugh.

EQ is a serious close 2nd though, because of it's graphics and art style, 1st person gameplay and faction system (which no game so far has managed to duplicate). I think EQ has better graphics than WoW. Not only are they not cartoony, but they pull off illusion better than any other MMO I've played. Go to gfay or kithicor or feerroot and notice how they cleverly use colored fog and large tree trunks with no tops to give an illusion of density and size. Toxx has a sickly yellowish fog that makes it an unpleasant zone. Verant were masters at these illusions IMO.

EQ still had those two great faults though. If they could have incorporated PvP into the overall game (city vs city or teams vs teams or something similar, like WoW and DAOC did) and solved the camping issue it would easily be #1.

(I think EQ without PvP is silly, even when I first played it over a decade ago. If dark elves and high elves, dwarves and ogres, erudite necros and erudite paladins are mortal enemies, why are they regularly adventuring with each other in game like best friends?)

[nymphloa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-TiYRBSkK0

Watch that just to be sure.

Lmao...thanks bro I needed a good laugh :)

Peace,

[Namegen_Isterrible]

Shadowbane

Mmm, shadowbane. Good memories. I jumped into that right after I got tired of EQ in the... I guess it was like PoP era?

Imo if there were a fantasy version of eve-online, it would be the best MMO ever hands down.

[maahes]

guys i am starting to think that WOW is the best and only MMORPG that will ever have a huge consistant player base.

i personally played it 1 - 60 and loved it, i quit after however because i couldnt be bothered going through the whole re gear after each expansion that i'd been through several times with EQ.

i know you are all going to start bagging WOW, but seriously, think about it.. it has so many players, it even has online dating websites for people aimed towards WoW players.

every time a new MMORPG comes out and fails people just say 'it copied wow too much' what if it isnt insanely possible to make an MMORPG that isn't virtual reality because it just copies wow all the time because bliz literally just made the best MMORPG ever?

think about it.

It really depends what you are exactly asking or stating. Are you stating that it is the most successful MMO of all time? Well clearly it is. Some of your points you mention fully support this. With the revenue Blizzard (Now Activision) generated and is generating, no other MMO even deserves to be in the same conversation. It is not even close. Anyone who argues this point.. bah its not even worth saying.

The other side of the statement, which most people will comment on in this forum is a matter of opinion. To me EQ PoP was the golden era of MMO's. But that is just my opinion. And everyone has one of those!

[nego1620]

EQ allows me to go afk far more to do things other than grind for pixels while I grind for pixels. It probably has allowed for afk time than any other MMO I've played, which instantly makes it better than any other MMO that I've played.

[hdawg06]

Population wise and longevity there is no better MMO than WoW. I really don't see anybody developing a WoW "killer" like every company seems to be trying to do. WoW will eventually kill itself off, but probably not for at least another 5 years...

[maahes]

Population wise and longevity there is no better MMO than WoW. I really don't see anybody developing a WoW "killer" like every company seems to be trying to do. WoW will eventually kill itself off, but probably not for at least another 5 years...

Agreed. WoW will reign as king for at least another 5 years. Before it waxes itself with its next IP or who knows maybe machine gun wielding cobra snakes.

[godbox]

dont care what anyone says (in vanilla wow at least stopped at first expansion) instances were and still are great. they were well thought out required tactics and like any good video game had a nice gear reward at the end through several mini bosses and an instance boss. It wasnt just the same strat of single pull>mez add>slow>autoattack>afkheal repeat. Almost every part of a dungeon had 3-6 mobs to deal with at a time and the AI was much better so you had to think as you moved through dungeons.
And everything being soulbound meant you were always on equal playing field with people in your level range one person wasnt going to be amazingly better geared than somone else unless they had already put in the time to do quests and instances to get geared in that lvl bracket.
I like eq (obvy since i play here) but I like a dungeon crall any day over a campfest and ive only been in a dungeon crall group one time on p99 (dalnir) was fun.

[Grumble]

Overall I think maybe yeah it was the best. EQ could have had the crown but for a few shortcomings: it didn't incorporate PvP into it's overall gameplay (just having PvP-enabled servers is not the same), and the lack of instancing meant the game became a campfest. You get home from work or school and want to play for a bit and every single dungeon in your level range is camped to hell and back. Ugh.

EQ is a serious close 2nd though, because of it's graphics and art style, 1st person gameplay and faction system (which no game so far has managed to duplicate). I think EQ has better graphics than WoW. Not only are they not cartoony, but they pull off illusion better than any other MMO I've played. Go to gfay or kithicor or feerroot and notice how they cleverly use colored fog and large tree trunks with no tops to give an illusion of density and size. Toxx has a sickly yellowish fog that makes it an unpleasant zone. Verant were masters at these illusions IMO.

EQ still had those two great faults though. If they could have incorporated PvP into the overall game (city vs city or teams vs teams or something similar, like WoW and DAOC did) and solved the camping issue it would easily be #1.

(I think EQ without PvP is silly, even when I first played it over a decade ago. If dark elves and high elves, dwarves and ogres, erudite necros and erudite paladins are mortal enemies, why are they regularly adventuring with each other in game like best friends?)

What is it with PvPers that they love it so much that they feel that they must impose it on people who have no interest in PvP whatsoever? I have no interest in getting ganked for no reason just minding my own business going from point a to point b.

[Kevlar]

I just had an awesome dungeon krawl in kaesora last night on Al'Kabor. 4 boxed my bard cleric warrior chanter down to the library got 3 spirit tomes and a ton of vendor loot and crawled back out. My toons are all level 35-38 in black iron armor or quested noobie gear mostly so it was challenging and fun. Especially using bard snare. Ugh I need a snare whip or an anklesmasher bad.

[godbox]

i dont count playing by urself on 4 chars might as well play final fantasy =/

[maahes]

dont care what anyone says (in vanilla wow at least stopped at first expansion) instances were and still are great. they were well thought out required tactics and like any good video game had a nice gear reward at the end through several mini bosses and an instance boss. It wasnt just the same strat of single pull>mez add>slow>autoattack>afkheal repeat. Almost every part of a dungeon had 3-6 mobs to deal with at a time and the AI was much better so you had to think as you moved through dungeons.
And everything being soulbound meant you were always on equal playing field with people in your level range one person wasnt going to be amazingly better geared than somone else unless they had already put in the time to do quests and instances to get geared in that lvl bracket.
I like eq (obvy since i play here) but I like a dungeon crall any day over a campfest and ive only been in a dungeon crall group one time on p99 (dalnir) was fun.

I am not knocking WoW at all, but I kind of disagree with each dungeon requiring a tactic. We used to zerg, zerg, zerg every dungeon in WoW. Infact people I ran with would always say "this is NOT EQ, ZERG!!!!" However, I do agree with a couple of your points. The dungeons were very well designed. (mini,mini,mini,boss) But than again, EQ dungeons used to scare the shit out of me..... which is why i miss their style of dungeon crawls.

[godbox]

I maybe stopped before zerg was possible. youd 5man everything except the big raid spots the 20man raids just opened up (zg I think it was called) and that was the first time it started feeling like you didnt need the whole zone full to win. First time we did ony and MC on firetree though was pretty hard even with the full 40. later as people learned you could do it smart and geared well with like 20 people I was probly long gone.

[formallydickman]

The only time I seriously played WoW PvE was in Vanilla. I was on a pretty low pop server and banding all the guilds together to make the server's first raiding guild was an awesome experience. Nothing in Molten Core was hard, but I remember that first fight in BWL was a nightmare to orchestrate, at least for Horde. Even doing a Stratholme timed run with 5 people was tough before everyone got geared. It was good times for me.

[gloine36]

Oh good grief. WoW is not half of what EQ was. All MMO's have their faults. You want the best Pvp, go play Dark Age of Camelot.
I personally think EQ2 was the best MMO from about the six month period up to the Kunark release. Unfortunately the WoW money wave got into the heads of the SOE people who valued massive amounts of money over steady profit and a good product.
Original EQ though was awesome. I think it was because it was the first real online game of its kind that I played. It held me in its thrall. Dark Age of Camelot and EQ2 did that. WoW never did.
I'll give Lord of the Rings Online a nod for good game as well, but it wasn't as good as EQ2. The ability to play music in LOTRO was a great treat.

[Atmas]

I had a lot of fun playing WoW before the battlegrounds. To this day I still think it is the most polished MMO out there. EQ had so many broken quests and buggy scripts, which was forgivable because it was a new type of venture.

But lets be honest
success =\= Best

Beta was superior quality to VHS but lost a marketing war.

In general best is a subjective thing. I think WoW is the best at what it is intended to be now, a wide range appealing MMO that caters to very casual players. EQ imo was much more immersive.

[Sularys]

Lol... WoW the best MMORPG ever? Not even close... if you want simple, no skill almost auto level playstyle with most everything handed to you on a silver platter, maybe it is the best.

WoW is a joke and has been since 1.9. The expansions only made to game easier and a whole let less fun. Just look at the next expansion... Pokemon and Panda's, 'nough said.

Sad really.. I absolutely loved WoW in beta and all the way up to just before BC release. Was an awesome game with alot of great ideas thrown into one game. But they got carried away and now it's just to easy and entirely too dumbed down.

[Hitpoint]

Most popular =/= best.

[Nuggie]

guys i am starting to think that WOW is the best and only MMORPG that will ever have a huge consistant player base.

i personally played it 1 - 60 and loved it, i quit after however because i couldnt be bothered going through the whole re gear after each expansion that i'd been through several times with EQ.

i know you are all going to start bagging WOW, but seriously, think about it.. it has so many players, it even has online dating websites for people aimed towards WoW players.

every time a new MMORPG comes out and fails people just say 'it copied wow too much' what if it isnt insanely possible to make an MMORPG that isn't virtual reality because it just copies wow all the time because bliz literally just made the best MMORPG ever?

think about it.


If "best ever" means most widely played, highest pop, probably longest lasting, then yes. I think a lot of the people here who say otherwise just fall outside of the target group. Not their cup of tea.

(Disclaimer, i didnt' read anythign other than the OP)

[sox7d]

guys i am starting to think that McDonalds is the best and only restaurant that will ever have a huge consistant customer base.

i personally ate there every week for a year and loved it, i stopped after however because i couldnt be bothered going through the whole rememorization of their menu every time they changed that i'd been through several times with <5 star local restaurant>.

i know you are all going to start bagging McDonalds, but seriously, think about it.. it has so many customers, it even has it's own online video game.

every time a new restaurant comes out and fails people just say 'it copied McDonalds too much' what if it isnt insanely possible to make an restaurant that isn't virtual reality because it just copies McDonalds the time because Ray Kroc literally just made the best restaurant ever?

think about it.

[Tuffpuppy]

I was in the closed beta test for WOW and played it through till release. I never had any interest in purchasing the game. I played EQ and DAOC both from release and WOW just didn't seem right, or enjoyable to me.

[Tarathiel]

having a largest player base does not make it the "best" nor does its longevity.

[porigromus]

I wish there was an authentic, dedicated, intelligent group of developers like the ones we have for Project 1999 making a Project 2004. :) I would be able to play the best created MMOs ever!

Usually when you get a Vanilla WoW server it has very few people on it, stupid custom changes, item/equipment vendors etc. Live WoW has the same issue as live EQ, they both are garbage.

[Fists]

http://www.q-gaming.org/index.php

^ winning.

[Nuggie]

~

[SamwiseBanned]

another emu? I thought Rebirth was a good wow vanilla emu but 200 players is not enough for world pvp.

[SamwiseBanned]

http://www.q-gaming.org/index.php

^ winning.

8 times xp is a lot for a vanilla server, i think rebirth has xp events but not a perma increase xp bonus.

edit: oh wow this sever launches in 3 days. you know ive never played a game from launch (correction never played a mmo from launch), this actually sounds cool. my gaming time has significantly dropped because its summer and my son wants to be outside all day but I might check this out.

[DarkwingDuck]

WoW was EverQuest For Dummies, which as it turns out, there are a lot of. You will never go broke appealing to the lowest common denominator.

This.

[DarkwingDuck]

guys i am starting to think that McDonalds is the best and only restaurant that will ever have a huge consistant customer base.

i personally ate there every week for a year and loved it, i stopped after however because i couldnt be bothered going through the whole rememorization of their menu every time they changed that i'd been through several times with <5 star local restaurant>.

i know you are all going to start bagging McDonalds, but seriously, think about it.. it has so many customers, it even has it's own online video game.

every time a new restaurant comes out and fails people just say 'it copied McDonalds too much' what if it isnt insanely possible to make an restaurant that isn't virtual reality because it just copies McDonalds the time because Ray Kroc literally just made the best restaurant ever?

think about it.


Double this ^

[SamwiseBanned]

This.

pve is for dummies in general, you can practically look up any mob in anygame and know its moveset, exact hps, best strategy to use, ect. unless you are playing first time without any wiki, all mmos are easy mode. what set WoW apart for me was the pvp. no game has come close to the world pvp wow had in vanilla. that being said eq the best mmo overall but not in the pvp dept.

[Slave]

no game has come close to the world pvp wow had in vanilla.

Shadowbane, EVE Online, Darkfall, Star Wars Galaxies, every one was or is better in world pvp.

[Bodeanicus]

Oh good grief. WoW is not half of what EQ was. All MMO's have their faults. You want the best Pvp, go play Dark Age of Camelot.
I personally think EQ2 was the best MMO from about the six month period up to the Kunark release. Unfortunately the WoW money wave got into the heads of the SOE people who valued massive amounts of money over steady profit and a good product.
Original EQ though was awesome. I think it was because it was the first real online game of its kind that I played. It held me in its thrall. Dark Age of Camelot and EQ2 did that. WoW never did.
I'll give Lord of the Rings Online a nod for good game as well, but it wasn't as good as EQ2. The ability to play music in LOTRO was a great treat.

I've always felt LOTRO, while obviously a WoW clone in some ways, was a better game than WoW. On the other hand, EQ2 at realease, and for a good time afterward, was fucking terrible. I distinctly remember the frustration of mobs warping into the walls and being able to hit you, but you couldn't hit them back. It was due to the designers making multiple mobs fan out evenly in front of you instead of being clumped up like in EQ1. Instant warping into walls. And the game still sucks.

[sox7d]

I'm gonna get a lot of shit for this, but WoW is the Mac computer of MMORPGs.

Sure, it's shiny, accessible and not confusing, but people that are tech-smart aren't typically using them.

[Fists]

8 times xp is a lot for a vanilla server, i think rebirth has xp events but not a perma increase xp bonus.

edit: oh wow this sever launches in 3 days. you know ive never played a game from launch (correction never played a mmo from launch), this actually sounds cool. my gaming time has significantly dropped because its summer and my son wants to be outside all day but I might check this out.

I played scriptcraft earlier this year, a blizzlike if not scripted harder server excluding the 1-8x leveling as well. That server started at about 300 peak players and after a reddit post we were at 1500-2k peaks until the server shut down (donation scams.) I feel like some sort of exp bonus is necessary man, I've done hybrids here and hit end game multiple times on WoW, exp is multipled (optional), but tradeskill, faction, are all blizzlike.

[Arclanz]

WoW had huge numbers because of the Blizzard brand name; and they practically gave the game away in China (which was a huge Blizzard follower to begin with). WoW is also anime-cartoony which appeals to Asians as well. So now Blizzard can claim they have millions of customers because of the millions of Chinese players who pay 3 cents per month....Then Blizzard advertises EVERYWHERE about how they have millions of players. Others wonder "hey what is the game that millions of players are playing"... Viral marketing FTW.

WoW's success has FAR MORE to do with marketing than it does with game play. SOE are absolute retards/failures when it comes to marketing and leveraging intellectual property.

[mwatt]

WoW had huge numbers because of the Blizzard brand name; and they practically gave the game away in China (which was a huge Blizzard follower to begin with). WoW is also anime-cartoony which appeals to Asians as well. So now Blizzard can claim they have millions of customers because of the millions of Chinese players who pay 3 cents per month....Then Blizzard advertises EVERYWHERE about how they have millions of players. Others wonder "hey what is the game that millions of players are playing"... Viral marketing FTW.

WoW's success has FAR MORE to do with marketing than it does with game play. SOE are absolute retards/failures when it comes to marketing and leveraging intellectual property.

^ This, plus catering to the lowest common denominator in both hardware and game play has made WoW the most popular MMPROG so far. As for "best", well that is a rather ambiguous designation and wholly subjective.

For my money, EQ is the best game ever created by mankind, outside of Chess.

[Anesthia]

Most successful ever. That's objectively verifiable.
Best ever? That's a subjective matter.

Cataclysm is the space kitty expansion of WoW, so I stopped playing live.

I'm still tooling around on Molten WoW in denial. Eventually I'll get my ass back to the One True MMO on P99. In other words, the best ever.

[Arclanz]

~ give me a large old school fantasy MMORPG, make it PVE, and hold the voice chat ~

Not to derail, but I agree. Vent ruins immersion. I have no desire to hear snot-nosed kids and frail grandmas and doods playing sexy woodelves. I raided EQ in 1999 and we never needed Vent. The only reason I joined Vent was at the insistence of Planetside clans, who, shortly after joining, I quit because of the reasons already stated.

/edit props to whoever made the McDonalds comparison; it was spot on!

[lawll]

EQ is made for the top 1% elite and most of the people in the game never even saw most of the content. Wow on the other hand made content that almost everyone can get into and enjoy (also having content only the 1% will see). EQ wasted tons of developer time and money on content no one will see. They also had tons of gimmicks to slow down progression of players for the lack of mid game content. Also I still don't understand how people think time sinks and pointless grinds are a challenge? EQ was never a hard game you just had to put a lot of time into it. Wow's raid mechanics had a lot bigger learning curve then just tank and spank CH chain and OP slows. Just look at wow warrior tank and EQ warrior tanking and please tell me witch one is crazy dumbed down. Soon as we got to velious most people had the basic idea on how mmos work and gear was getting crazy op with stats. Engage then go afk as the CH chain is running no way you could lose unless someone trying to train onto you. I guess in some peoples minds corpse runs, elite status, cock block raid mobs and no instances = super hardcore game.

EQ was never a hard game get over it.

[Slave]

And can I ask what level you are now in P99 sir? lol

[falkun]

lawll, the other issue between P99/EQ and WoW is voice chat and User Interface. WoW may have had more complicated raid mechanics, but their fighting this never-ending arms race with boss counter mods. Classic EQ doesn't have a BIG RED SCREEN that will tell you you are STANDING IN THE BAD, you just get hit by it unless you know how to LOS or know the range.

Also, classic EQ had the entire raid force talking via typing, which is like 10x SLOWER than voice chat. Try doing non-farm bosses in WoW without boss counter mods and voice chat, the game would be much more difficult.

The difference now is we have P99 and voice chat and boss abilities are known (even if they can't make UI elements for them). You are getting virtually the convenience of WoW with the difficulty of EQ, making EQ easier than intended.

[lawll]

lawll, the other issue between P99/EQ and WoW is voice chat and User Interface. WoW may have had more complicated raid mechanics, but their fighting this never-ending arms race with boss counter mods. Classic EQ doesn't have a BIG RED SCREEN that will tell you you are STANDING IN THE BAD, you just get hit by it unless you know how to LOS or know the range.

Also, classic EQ had the entire raid force talking via typing, which is like 10x SLOWER than voice chat. Try doing non-farm bosses in WoW without boss counter mods and voice chat, the game would be much more difficult.

The difference now is we have P99 and voice chat and boss abilities are known (even if they can't make UI elements for them). You are getting virtually the convenience of WoW with the difficulty of EQ, making EQ easier than intended.

Thats my point EQ was only hard because of dialup, 3d mmo's was a new thing, and the clunky UI. Wow took all the pointless grinds from EQ out of the mmo world and made it fun not a time sink. Every time someone says EQ was a hard game it's because of the endless grinds that held back progression. EQ did a lot for the mmo market they showed us what not to do in a mmo game. Wow also has a in house game engine that allows them to customize and change so much without the limits of a 3rd part game engine (almost every new mmo has a damn 3rd party game engine). Bliz is a well oiled money making machine and the top 1% doesn't bring it in.

[Arclanz]

Iawll, you say EQ is made for 1% of players then go on to say how much easier it is than WoW. Then you say that all WoW players get to see most of the WoW content. But everyone knows WoW is a stupid-easy game, which is why 11 year old kids play it.

Patience, determination, and perseverance are important traits; and players who exhibit them (EQ players) deserve credit. Heck, real life is easy too...success is more a factor of these traits rather than being "difficult."

So, if you have a kid; I'd encourage them to Play EQ rather than WoW. The former teaches important life skills; the latter breeds a welfare mentality of being handed rewards for nothing.

This difference aside, I totally agree with your post and that SOE wasted zounds of dev time on content very few (including myself) will ever see.

[Kevlar]

Iawll, you say EQ is made for 1% of players then go on to say how much easier it is than WoW. Then you say that all WoW players get to see most of the WoW content. But everyone knows WoW is a stupid-easy game, which is why 11 year old kids play it.

Patience, determination, and perseverance are important traits; and players who exhibit them (EQ players) deserve credit. Heck, real life is easy too...success is more a factor of these traits rather than being "difficult."

So, if you have a kid; I'd encourage them to Play EQ rather than WoW. The former teaches important life skills; the latter breeds a welfare mentality of being handed rewards for nothing.

This difference aside, I totally agree with your post and that SOE wasted zounds of dev time on content very few (including myself) will ever see.

EQ is not a game built for mass appeal. It is like old school dungeons and dragons if you played it the way it was meant to be played. It was hard. Very little instant gratification. Hell 75 percent of the classes can not even play the game on their own. Who wants to play a warrior who has to sit and wait 30 entire minutes to get his health back, and who can barely solo kill a light blue mob with full health?

That isn't patience and determination, its masochism.

[kaev]

Why do people always argue matters of purely personal taste as if there were some sort of grand universal truth involved?

WoW is the "best MMORPG ever", for YOU, if you believe that to be true.

IMO, this entire discussion is as stupid and pointless as those terribad "less filling" "tastes great" beer commercials of yesteryear, which (again IMO) ought to embarrass the hell out of all of you for having participated in it. In other words, troll succeeds, mission accomplished, gratz to the OP (unless he is serious, in which case he should be even more embarrassed than the rest of you.)

[lawll]

Iawll, you say EQ is made for 1% of players then go on to say how much easier it is than WoW. Then you say that all WoW players get to see most of the WoW content. But everyone knows WoW is a stupid-easy game, which is why 11 year old kids play it.

Patience, determination, and perseverance are important traits; and players who exhibit them (EQ players) deserve credit. Heck, real life is easy too...success is more a factor of these traits rather than being "difficult."

So, if you have a kid; I'd encourage them to Play EQ rather than WoW. The former teaches important life skills; the latter breeds a welfare mentality of being handed rewards for nothing.

This difference aside, I totally agree with your post and that SOE wasted zounds of dev time on content very few (including myself) will ever see.

EQ is for the top 1% dedicated raid players. To be the top 1% dedicated raid guild in classic EQ you had to have numbers and poopsock spawns. WoW just cut out all of the grind in the game and made everything straight to the point. Also do you know 11 year old players that run in heroic raids? Wow is still a changeling game it's just not unforgiving all the time like EQ was.

[Kevlar]

EQ is for the top 1% dedicated raid players. To be the top 1% dedicated raid guild in classic EQ you had to have numbers and poopsock spawns. WoW just cut out all of the grind in the game and made everything straight to the point. Also do you know 11 year old players that run in heroic raids? Wow is still a changeling game it's just not unforgiving all the time like EQ was.

It may very well be for a certain 1% segment of the MMO players, but it isn't the "top" 1%, just a very ornery 1%. EQ had a lot more appeal for the cybor whores and trade skillers than it did the raiders. There were a lot more of those long after the raiders left to play other games.

A certain segment of players stick to all games. If you wanted to play a really hard game you would have stuck with Ultima Online. That was like playing everquest but with a level cap of like 10, where a couple of hits from anything would always kill you, and when a player jumped you they could loot everything you own, and sometimes steal your whole house if you were dumb and had a teleport rune on you. Corp por! Corp por!

[porigromus]

< > is the best MMORPG ever! Best is subjective to who is making the statement. Fill in the space with YOUR correct answer. You can never determine the best MMORPG or anything else for someone else.

[Gringo]

pve is for dummies in general, you can practically look up any mob in anygame and know its moveset, exact hps, best strategy to use, ect. unless you are playing first time without any wiki, all mmos are easy mode. what set WoW apart for me was the pvp. no game has come close to the world pvp wow had in vanilla. that being said eq the best mmo overall but not in the pvp dept.

Man those AV battles that lasted 3 days to a week before one side would win were EPIC. I miss the raids on Ironforge, Stormwind and Southshore

[Kimm Barely]

EQ was my first and I will never forget, but let's face it - Vanilla WoW was the pinnacle of MMORPGs.

The next level of MMORPG won't be reached until virtual reality or brain implant gaming.

[Harmonium]

How is this question any different than asking if your favorite song is the best song ever?

This thread needs to die.

[Danyelle]

How is this question any different than asking if your favorite song is the best song ever?

This thread needs to die.

This is P99, no one here acknowledges opinions.






































http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/19/EverQuest_-_The_Shadows_of_Luclin_Coverart.png

[lawll]

Vanilla WoW was not the pinnacle of MMORPGs. It was the only game of its kind in town at the time. And it was HOT. Unlike classic WoW, EQ did the MMO thing first and claims the nostalgia title. You can cite DAoC and Meridian 59, but EQ did it first on a public-friendly, mass-appeal scale.

WoW is the pinnacle of MMORPG game engines. It has the most responsive smooth game engine than any mmo even to this day. WoW is so big because of that and from day one everyone knew the engine had such potential. Only if new mmos would use WoWs game engine as a standard to develop their own.

[azeth]

WoW is the pinnacle of MMORPG game engines. It has the most responsive smooth game engine than any mmo even to this day. WoW is so big because of that and from day one everyone knew the engine had such potential. Only if new mmos would use WoWs game engine as a standard to develop their own.

I agree with this. WoW has in game goings on down pretty perfectly. It's game direction and decision making that propels Verant & Sony to the top though.

[Atmas]

WoW is the pinnacle of MMORPG game engines. It has the most responsive smooth game engine than any mmo even to this day. WoW is so big because of that and from day one everyone knew the engine had such potential. Only if new mmos would use WoWs game engine as a standard to develop their own.

I have to agree, the engine was/is awesome.

[lawll]

The engine is also 10 years old as it started with warcraft3. Now it supports DX11 and still looks/feels amazing. They stuck to good engine and perfected it I don't know why more people don't do this. Seems like game engines last for 3-4 years before they scrap it and start over. Bliz can adapt to any change in the tech/mmo world and thats what keeps you on top. Bliz also did a lot for the mmo world I don't know why people don't give them more credit. WoW set standards on how MMOs should be and stopped all the half assed MMOs from getting any fame. Than again soon as you beat all your competition and your way above everyone else in the market. You have no idea where to go from there and just start testing new ideas to bring in new subs (what we are seeing now).

[Slave]

Every new larger-scale mmorpg has used something like it and 'the engine' was never very good to begin with. Are you guys serious? They made a few bucks because WoW was easy compared to EQ and suddenly every game in town looked like it. It's basically shit on a screen. The graphics are terrible, the art direction is crap. The mash-buttons-to-win you could get in Space Invaders but that takes more skill. It's basically the reason why people don't get into MMOs. Can you honestly say that WoW is more immersive than EverQuest? It's mass-produced garbage for the undiscerning masses.

[lawll]

Every new larger-scale mmorpg has used something like it and 'the engine' was never very good to begin with. Are you guys serious? They made a few bucks because WoW was easy compared to EQ and suddenly every game in town looked like it. It's basically shit on a screen. The graphics are terrible, the art direction is crap. The mash-buttons-to-win you could get in Space Invaders but that takes more skill. It's basically the reason why people don't get into MMOs. Can you honestly say that WoW is more immersive than EverQuest? It's mass-produced garbage for the undiscerning masses.

Lol you just dislike WoW so this reply is very bias. Also we aren't talking about the WoW game content just the game engine. If you know a better game engine then WoW's please enlighten us all. EQ's game play was very slow and clunky. Again CH chains, OP slows and tank/spank raid mobs isn't a hard game. You just need numbers and people to poopsock spawns. Also EQ is a game based off D&D so the game play reflects that. WoW on the other hand is based of diablo's fast gameplay (at that time) and EQs MMO roots. That's why older gamers hate wow because D&D wasn't a fast paced game. The ONLY thing that makes EQ a harder game then WoW is the time sink grind for everything. Also about the art direction you said that "sucked". Every MMO out there that uses a some what real looking engine has tons of bugs for whatever reason (EQ2, vanguard). The art direction they took worked very well in favor of FPS and your ping.

[Atmas]

Every new larger-scale mmorpg has used something like it and 'the engine' was never very good to begin with. Are you guys serious? They made a few bucks because WoW was easy compared to EQ and suddenly every game in town looked like it. It's basically shit on a screen. The graphics are terrible, the art direction is crap. The mash-buttons-to-win you could get in Space Invaders but that takes more skill. It's basically the reason why people don't get into MMOs. Can you honestly say that WoW is more immersive than EverQuest? It's mass-produced garbage for the undiscerning masses.

The last couple of posts were about the engine not the target audience. I mentioned in previous posts that WoW is good at the wide range easy to advance style it aims at. I mentioned also that I definitely found EQ more imersive. As far as the art goes I was never a big fan of WoW's cartoonish characters but they also did well for what they were shooting at.

I liked vanilla WoW, but not as much as EQ. Original EQ will probably forever be my best MMO gaming experience. However, this does not perclude me from saying that WoW is a very well made game.

[gloine36]

WoW used an engine that was not utilizing cutting edge graphic technology which made it possible to play the game on older PCs. EQ2 screwed up big time by going with an engine that was hard on older PCs if they were even able to play it. I think that's why EQ2 really lost out. Wow was not nearly as good as EQ2, but you didn't have to have a new PC with a top of the line 3D card and a ton of RAM to play it like you did EQ2.

[lawll]

The last couple of posts were about the engine not the target audience. I mentioned in previous posts that WoW is good at the wide range easy to advance style it aims at. I mentioned also that I definitely found EQ more imersive. As far as the art goes I was never a big fan of WoW's cartoonish characters but they also did well for what they were shooting at.

I liked vanilla WoW, but not as much as EQ. Original EQ will probably forever be my best MMO gaming experience. However, this does not perclude me from saying that WoW is a very well made game.

I don't get why people get so mad about just killing the grind in the game and making everything straight to the point. Vanilla WoW was really bad and incomplete but had the engine to build on. Take a raid of 25 EQ players and drop them in a WoW heroic raid to see how advanced of a mmo player that are. EQ was immersive because of the grind to make the game close to real life as posible. Sony knew this wasn't bringing in money and keeping the player base happy (only the 1% were happy). That's why SoL changed a lot of the grind in EQ to advance the mmo market to the next level.

[lawll]

WoW used an engine that was not utilizing cutting edge graphic technology which made it possible to play the game on older PCs. EQ2 screwed up big time by going with an engine that was hard on older PCs if they were even able to play it. I think that's why EQ2 really lost out. Wow was not nearly as good as EQ2, but you didn't have to have a new PC with a top of the line 3D card and a ton of RAM to play it like you did EQ2.

EQ2 was full of bugs and couldn't develop fast enough to keep up with bliz. Also WoW's game engine scales very well with graphic settings. Very low can run on any PC but run everything on max and you will see a very beautiful game. Sony also rushed EQ2 but bliz delayed WoW a few times to polish every aspect of the game.

[jballe3]

i'll honestly say, that if you're looking for a WoW emu, vanilla style, therebirth.net is probably by far, the best. although the population has taken a hit because of other servers, this one still stands. they don't accept donations, so you know it isn't a potential donation scam, like scriptcraft was. i wouldn't be surprised if this new server coming up for WoW vanilla is run by the same guy.

[lawll]

i'll honestly say, that if you're looking for a WoW emu, vanilla style, therebirth.net is probably by far, the best. although the population has taken a hit because of other servers, this one still stands. they don't accept donations, so you know it isn't a potential donation scam, like scriptcraft was. i wouldn't be surprised if this new server coming up for WoW vanilla is run by the same guy.

I don't get why people like vanilla so much.. WoW has improved so much for the better since 2004.

[Atmas]

I don't get why people like vanilla so much.. WoW has improved so much for the better since 2004.

It depends on what you would define as an improvement. Here are some reasons I like vanilla WoW better than the state of the game when I stopped, a little after Cataclysm launched.

1. The player base was better (in my opinion) in vanilla. A lot more former EQ players and just adults in general. As time progressed and things got easier you saw a bunch of couthless social inepts who lacked any ability to function with proper etiquette. Mainly because a person could progress to end game never learning basic MMO social skills.
2. PvP, prior to even the battlegrounds Open world PvP was random unscripted and fun. Also it wasn't just the cluser-f%$# of cooldowns it became, you actually needed strategies against other classes.
3. No automated dungeon finder tool. While the tool itself is awesome engineering, it really messed up the game. I had groups were we would do the daily random without anyone saying a word. MMOs are intended to be social , you meet and make friends with reliable tanks/healers/dps. They become some of your go to people when you are starting a group.
4 The ease of leveling increased. This ties back in with point 1, you get people who can't play their class and have no social skills because they got to end game without having to learn anything.
5. Changes to the talent system. The last one I was there for really irked me. Basically the system was dumbed down to force a player to allocate points with a high majority in one tree and maybe a few in another? I understand why they did it, to prevent people who did no research or had no understanding from distrubting points too wildly. However, this also prevented unique talent setups that allowed some players who knew what they were doing to excel.
5.5 Talents and meters. This is partly player and partly developer issues. The talent systems which once gave people the oppurtunity to make some varied choices basically became frowned upon as specific specs were detailed for maximizing effectiveness. Essentially you had to have a certain point distrubution or you had a stigma.
6. Catering to hybrids. This one really frustrated me as a mage. Palies and Deathknights doing max damgage on fights over rogues/mages was kind of ridiculous from a classical fantasy stand point. Unfortunately Bliz thought they would alienate poeple by limiting their hybrid classes from being able to top the charts in any role they wished to play. They failed to realize while they were trying to avoid penalizing people who played hybrids they were screwing pures who only had one function and became somewhat obsolete when they were outdone in their target role by people who could do the same function and more. The term for mages being "Sunwelled" comes to mind.

[jballe3]

lawll, probably the same reason why you enjoy classic EQ over the 200 expansions that everquest has put out over the years :)

opinions are opinions.