Staff - Players - TMO, a Treatise on the Future of the Server

[Safon]

The server seems to be getting healthier, and if we want it to continue to do so until Velious hits then certain trends need to keep happening.

The staff as always are very much appreciated, they work for free and have given us classic Everquest. Ambrotos has been awesome clearing up the forums lately, not too mention his trivia events. Amelinda is helpful and super nice as always. Nilbog seems admirably dedicated to his goal of recreating classic EQ through to Velious, and Rogean and the other devs/staff rock as always for contributing to the project. All we can do is hope they continue to support and love the server, and contribute in any way we can.

The players lately seem to have been in a more cooperative and helpful mood as well. It's great to see guilds coming together for joint raids. The distinct lack of rofl-stomping, cuthroat raiding and flaming on the raid scene is nothing but good for the server. And that brings me to my final concern.

TMO. Good guild with great leadership and many great people. Some members are far too loud and aggressive, yes, but they do not constitute the whole. TMO is in a unique position to be the guild TR should have been. TMO was semi casual once, and they have a much better disposition towards less hardcore guilds than IB/TR did. I sincerely believe they will be they deciding factor regarding where this server ends up throughout the year; they have no real competition anymore. I truly hope that when the current raid suspension ends, they will act in the servers best interests as well as their own. You guys earned the top spot on the server, but please think of the whole as you go forward.

Anyways just some thoughts I had after I came back recently. If recent trends continue I imagine i'll be playing here until well after Velious, as will the friends I came back to play with.

Cheers!

[Corrodith]

You want mobs and loots that you don't have to compete for. You bury it in a lot of other "nice sounding" stuff, why not just bluntly say what you actually want.

[Tiggles]

This server is honestly too small to have two raid guilds.

If one guild becomes dominate the other raid guild dies.

If you want to raid join TMO

if you want to be casual then join BDA

There is no Semi casual when the casual guild tries to takes TMOs raid mobs TMO will race and beat you.

There can no longer be competition because all the good players are in TMO now and the other set of good players left.

it's not hard to understand.

[Speedling]

zerg force =/= good

[Jellybelly]

This server is honestly too small to have two raid guilds.

If one guild becomes dominate the other raid guild dies.

If you want to raid join TMO

if you want to be casual then join BDA

There is no Semi casual when the casual guild tries to takes TMOs raid mobs TMO will race and beat you.

There can no longer be competition because all the good players are in TMO now and the other set of good players left.

it's not hard to understand.


Several guilds have good players. I think the only thing that TMO has up on other guilds is the amount of poopsockers. Saying that TMO is the only guild with good players is just stupid.

[Autotune]

TMO is the only guild with good players.

[Danyelle]

I'm hurt and offended, bro :( </3

lol

[Rasah]

This server is honestly too small to have two raid guilds.

If one guild becomes dominate the other raid guild dies.

If you want to raid join TMO

if you want to be casual then join BDA

There is no Semi casual when the casual guild tries to takes TMOs raid mobs TMO will race and beat you.

There can no longer be competition because all the good players are in TMO now and the other set of good players left.

it's not hard to understand.
So if I understand this correctly from your point of view, if you want a raid mob, either join TMO, or find another server. Did I get that right? Might save some people some time.

[Quizy]

I'm hurt and offended, bro :( </3

lol

Div has alot of good people too@!

[Autotune]

I'm hurt and offended, bro :( </3

lol

yeah, that guy is an ass.

[Lazortag]

Tiggles is very obviously trolling. Obviously there are good players outside of TMO, after all, I'm not in TMO.

[Tiggles]

Tiggles is very obviously trolling. Obviously there are good players outside of TMO, after all, I'm not in TMO.

Just you wait Once IB quits again after BDA folds then when Winter comes again they will group with Divinity and the cycle starts all over.

[Tiggles]

So if I understand this correctly from your point of view, if you want a raid mob, either join TMO, or find another server. Did I get that right? Might save some people some time.

You got that right.

[nilbog]

One huge difference that I've witnessed on p99 compared to my eqlive server experience is the massive amounts of players per raiding guild.

On classic live, I'm not sure if it was the inter-guild conflicts, lack of enough loot to go around, or generally wanting to compete, but there were never guilds this large.


Why so large, raid guilds?


http://foodbeast.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/zerg.jpg

[Pillow Armadillo]

One huge difference that I've witnessed on p99 compared to my eqlive server experience is the massive amounts of players per raiding guild.

On classic live, I'm not sure if it was the inter-guild conflicts, lack of enough loot to go around, or generally wanting to compete, but there were never guilds this large.


Why so large, raid guilds?



Is it possible to code an upper limit to guild size? Say, 60 players? It'd be a hard pill to swallow, but could feasible with a guild management window. Just my opinion, but there's one suggestion on the table if there the development team is weighing in here.

[Tiggles]

One huge difference that I've witnessed on p99 compared to my eqlive server experience is the massive amounts of players per raiding guild.

On classic live, I'm not sure if it was the inter-guild conflicts, lack of enough loot to go around, or generally wanting to compete, but there were never guilds this large.


Why so large, raid guilds?


http://foodbeast.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/zerg.jpg

hard code a 50member max on guilds.

That would fix every problem.

We could have guild alliances and Treachery and stuff!

[Alarti0001]

One huge difference that I've witnessed on p99 compared to my eqlive server experience is the massive amounts of players per raiding guild.

On classic live, I'm not sure if it was the inter-guild conflicts, lack of enough loot to go around, or generally wanting to compete, but there were never guilds this large.


Why so large, raid guilds?




You seriously don't know why?
Variance

[Tanthallas]

You seriously don't know why?
We are horrible players who want to avoid real competition

[Tiggles]

This is an adult non rnf conversation please exit

[Tanthallas]

What do you think nilbog implied? Did you think he just likes cake?

[Splorf22]

Alarti is dead on with variance of course.

If your model is 'lets get some friends together and kill content a few times a week at set times' then everyone can clear their schedule, the guild has 65% raid attendance, and you need maybe 30 people for EQ raiding so 30/0.65 = 50 people/guild.

If your model is 'lets track 24/7 and batphone 30 people at any given time, then zerg the target down without any particular attempt at strategy because if we take our time the other guild will leapfrog us' then realistically people are going to be working or whatnot (unless they are in TMO, everyone knows TMO is full of 100% unemployed people) then people are going to have more like 35% raid attendance, and you need maybe 40 people for your raid and suddenly your guild has 120 people.

Basically a P1999 raiding guild is a euro guild + an american guild merged together so they can kill stuff 24/7.

[Tiggles]

Alarti is dead on with variance of course.

If your model is 'lets get some friends together and kill content a few times a week at set times' then everyone can clear their schedule, the guild has 65% raid attendance, and you need maybe 30 people for EQ raiding so 30/0.65 = 50 people/guild.

If your model is 'lets track 24/7 and batphone 30 people at any given time, then zerg the target down without any particular attempt at strategy because if we take our time the other guild will leapfrog us' then realistically people are going to be working or whatnot (unless they are in TMO, everyone knows TMO is full of 100% unemployed people) then people are going to have more like 35% raid attendance, and you need maybe 40 people for your raid and suddenly your guild has 120 people.

Basically a P1999 raiding guild is a euro guild + an american guild merged together so they can kill stuff 24/7.


yeah good idea remove variance and eventually TMO will split into 2-3 guilds and then poopsock each other and train and claim FTE.

then you will have to worry about 2-3 guilds of better players stopping you form getting charity dragons.

[Shiftin]

You seriously don't know why?
Variance

Maybe the only time i've agreed with Alarti, so there's probably some merit here Nilbog.

On live, you KNEW what day nagafen and vox were going to spawn. I led pre-kunark raids here and we literally scheduled them on open forums. Usually, we could, even on non patch weeks, go straight from one dragon to another, because they both respawned in a small window that was predictable.

Yes, they had a +/- 6 hours (or whatever depending on the mob, never remotely close to this level), but you could plan raid nights. On Tunare, by late velious / early luclin, we had 4? 5? guilds capable of downing most notable raid targets. They all had 40-50 members, some more casual than others, but you knew what you were getting into when you logged on each night because it was posted right there on our calendars "X Y and Z are probably up tonight, we'll kill some of that then maybe hit Q to farm some stuff".

Variance here forces guilds to be far larger than they truly want to be, because you have to have enough people guilded in enough time zones to respond to mobs that spawned at completely insane times AND have the people to track for those mobs. If you don't, you don't get the mobs. It is a cold war-esque arms race that inevitably escalates to giant guilds sitting 50 people each on VS spawn point when nothing else is "in window" - something that was almost impossible on live because either lots of things could spawn or basically nothing due to patch days that reset spawn timers and small variance windows.

Nilbog, I really hope this was nothing more than a tongue in cheek comment and you actually do understand the sociology of MMOs to some degree. There is more to what you describe as "the classic experience" than the pathing of greater skeletons. It's not a single player game.

To the OP, you're re-writing history. DA/TMO and IB/TR had at least equal parts in the escalation of hostilities. The reason there is effectively 1 raid guild has significantly more to do with rogean, after 6 months of not doing the things he exclusively had the power to do, gave exclusive power to a GM who was more concerned with being liked by players than enforcing the rules in a consistent and accountable way. Going from Uthgaard to no GM to Amelinda getting both servers dumped on her and snapping far overshadowed any fun I was still having killing the same stuff every week.

Everything I've read by ambrotos seems significantly more reasonable and level headed, which is why i'm back to logging in from time to time. I'm all for the server's continued existence, and as soon as velious beta goes live, i'll be right there every night on the test server, just like I was with Kunark, helping to get it ready to go.

Cheers.

[Razdeline]

One huge difference that I've witnessed on p99 compared to my eqlive server experience is the massive amounts of players per raiding guild.

On classic live, I'm not sure if it was the inter-guild conflicts, lack of enough loot to go around, or generally wanting to compete, but there were never guilds this large.


Why so large, raid guilds?


http://foodbeast.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/zerg.jpg

I wonder who hes directing this at? IB was always known for doing more with less players, we downed mobs with 20-40 players consistently.

[Supaskillz]

I still don't understand the push to eliminate variance. How is it not obvious the problems this would create? On live people were not as dedicated or aware of how raids worked at this point in time or something, because we all know what would happen here with no variance. Multiple guilds would have the spawn timer and be sitting on the spawn point when it spawned. While I agree variance creates an incentive to make large guilds, removing variance creates what in my eyes is a bigger problem.

[Slave]

I still don't understand the push to eliminate variance. How is it not obvious the problems this would create? On live people were not as dedicated or aware of how raids worked at this point in time or something, because we all know what would happen here with no variance. Multiple guilds would have the spawn timer and be sitting on the spawn point when it spawned. While I agree variance creates an incentive to make large guilds, removing variance creates what in my eyes is a bigger problem.

Duuuurrrrrrrr --- FTE shout.

[Supaskillz]

Duuuurrrrrrrr --- FTE shout.

so whoever is lucky enough to be the first one the aggro list of the 100 people sitting under the spawn point gets the kill? cool raid.

[Tarathiel]

Multiple guilds would have the spawn timer and be sitting on the spawn point when it spawned.

this is where a rotation comes in, a classic solution to a classic problem

[Slave]

so whoever is lucky enough to be the first one the aggro list of the 100 people sitting under the spawn point gets the kill? cool raid.

100 times better than variance and tracking for days, batphones, and giant guilds.

[nymphloa]

One huge difference that I've witnessed on p99 compared to my eqlive server experience is the massive amounts of players per raiding guild.

On classic live, I'm not sure if it was the inter-guild conflicts, lack of enough loot to go around, or generally wanting to compete, but there were never guilds this large.


Why so large, raid guilds?


http://foodbeast.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/zerg.jpg

Awesome Star Craft cake bud! Zerg ftw....

[Supaskillz]

this is where a rotation comes in, a classic solution to a classic problem

I would be fine with a rotation, although I balk at a gm organized rotation. I feel this needs to be a player run and policed policy like the ragefire rotation was, but I do not think the community has the will for this and I can sympathize with a desire for competition though I think classic eq is poorly setup to compete for raid mobs and creates issues.

[Lazortag]

So then make the variance shorter? It doesn't need to be 4 days long. No variance would suck, but it would be better than what we have currently.

One huge difference that I've witnessed on p99 compared to my eqlive server experience is the massive amounts of players per raiding guild.

On classic live, I'm not sure if it was the inter-guild conflicts, lack of enough loot to go around, or generally wanting to compete, but there were never guilds this large.


Why so large, raid guilds?


http://foodbeast.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/zerg.jpg

I'm sure this has been said but the main reason is the time investment required to compete on this server vs. eq live. Tracking a raid mob for the entire duration of its window can take as long as 4 days, whereas on Live the variance for mobs was markedly shorter if not nonexistent. One person simply can't do this alone without either (a) wasting insane amounts of time or (b) missing several hours of tracking where the mob in question may have spawned. So the easiest way to track a mob for its whole window (and therefore have a higher chance of getting that mob) is to have a large number of people taking smaller tracking shifts. This leads to larger guilds being competitively far more successful than smaller guilds.

Also, if spawn times are unpredictable then having more players allows you to mobilize faster. If guild A has 200 players and guild B has 20, then assuming players in both guilds are equally skilled and equally good at mobilizing, then guild A mobilizes ten times faster simply because they have more players. In the time it takes for guild B to get 2 players to skyfire to kill talendor, guild A already has an entire raid force.

TLDR: The variance is entirely at fault for every single problem with the raid scene, ever.

[Tanthallas]

People also make the server what it is, don't forget....

[nilbog]

TLDR: The variance is entirely at fault for every single problem with the raid scene, ever.

Did you happen to see the raid scene prior to variance? I mean.. ultimately we would have everything we could 100% classic with no changes.. but there's a reason it was instituted in the first place.

this is where a rotation comes in, a classic solution to a classic problem

Rotations - Cool, whatever you guys decide, but not GM-enforced rotations. It should be a player decision.

Duuuurrrrrrrr --- FTE shout.

Not to discount that FTE shout is a good idea in itself, but the responses to this are correct. LvL 1 gnome enchanter, sitting down, first in zone, sitting there for days. Should that really be the deciding factor of a claim?


The players themselves have opportunities to change the raiding scene. They do not.

[Versus]

I'm pro no long variance windows
I'm against shitsocking and carebear rotations.

What's the greater evil?


I know it's been said a dozen times, but with the release of Velious and simulated patch days every week or two, it would alleviate the need for a lot of this rotation talk or variance windows. One guild can only do so much when everything is up. Especially once Velious drops. Once Winter comes, every Kunark encounter will be FFA and whoever the top dog is will be relegated to a few select boss options. Velious bosses have more HP and take longer, it won't be a roflstomp like it is now.

Also, simulated patch days are classic.

[Lazortag]

Did you happen to see the raid scene prior to variance? I mean.. ultimately we would have everything we could 100% classic with no changes.. but there's a reason it was instituted in the first place.

No, but I imagine it was full of poopsocking. I guess I didn't make this clear but I don't think the variance should be removed entirely. The main reason I say this is because this is an international server, and european players would be screwed if everything spawned at 6 in the morning for them. What I don't understand is why the variance is 96 hours long for 7 day spawns, when a 24 hour window would accomplish the same goals? A mob is just as likely to spawn at 8PM if the window is 24 hours long vs. 96 hours long, it just changes the day on which it might spawn at that time, and also makes it mind numbingly harder for casual players and smaller guilds to compete.

I think either the variance should be shortened substantially, or there should be simultaneous repops, or both.

[Razdeline]

Did you happen to see the raid scene prior to variance? I mean.. ultimately we would have everything we could 100% classic with no changes.. but there's a reason it was instituted in the first place.



Rotations - Cool, whatever you guys decide, but not GM-enforced rotations. It should be a player decision.



Not to discount that FTE shout is a good idea in itself, but the responses to this are correct. LvL 1 gnome enchanter, sitting down, first in zone, sitting there for days. Should that really be the deciding factor of a claim?


The players themselves have opportunities to change the raiding scene. They do not.

Well when internet anonymity comes into play, primal human nature comes out. People are greedy at heart, and have less inhibitions when sharing these bad traits with others.

Similar to a riot being civil, to going more and more out of control

[Shiftin]

Did you happen to see the raid scene prior to variance? I mean.. ultimately we would have everything we could 100% classic with no changes.. but there's a reason it was instituted in the first place.


For probably the 10th time directly addressing this point at you, there was minor variance on live. No variance with 4 raid targets in pre-kunark with a server of 800 average players on a night was insane. There are now many raid targets on both 3 and 7 day respawns.

4 day variance is insane on any server, ever.

You could actually be classic AND make people happy. The solution is an incredibly simple one of significantly reduced variance and at least bi-weekly simulated patches. It's impossible for 1 guild to get everything on a patch or pseudo patch and having most or nothing in window forces guilds to choose and allows more than the top 1-2 guilds to get stuff even on non patch days. It also burns people who choose to pursue raiding out much slower because they get off days.

Why do you completely ignore cogent arguments like this that have a tremendous amount of player support AND bring your classic server more in line with the classic EQ experience?

[nilbog]

For probably the 10th time directly addressing this point at you

You could actually be classic

Why do you completely ignore cogent arguments like this

By responding to this thread, last week mentioning I was looking into ways to fix the raid scene, and pointing out a few flaws of suggestions here, I'm completely ignoring you.

No response is better than responding? Gotcha.

You're not ignored.

[Razdeline]

For probably the 10th time directly addressing this point at you, there was minor variance on live. No variance with 4 raid targets in pre-kunark with a server of 800 average players on a night was insane. There are now many raid targets on both 3 and 7 day respawns.

4 day variance is insane on any server, ever.

You could actually be classic AND make people happy. The solution is an incredibly simple one of significantly reduced variance and at least bi-weekly simulated patches. It's impossible for 1 guild to get everything on a patch or pseudo patch and having most or nothing in window forces guilds to choose and allows more than the top 1-2 guilds to get stuff even on non patch days. It also burns people who choose to pursue raiding out much slower because they get off days.

Why do you completely ignore cogent arguments like this that have a tremendous amount of player support AND bring your classic server more in line with the classic EQ experience?

Abrasiveness aside, this sounds like a great idea.

[Shiftin]

It's the same set of basic ideas to fix the raid scene that have been offered for over a year and a half. I've never seen you respond to them. Every single time the thread comes up of "how do we fix the raid scene??" the answer from people who raid is always "patch days or fake ones that bunch up mob spawns and reduce the variance".

Every.

Time.

[Tanthallas]

Shiftin is mad that he didnt get enough weapons in VP this week imo

[Autotune]

The solution is an incredibly simple one of significantly reduced variance and at least bi-weekly simulated patches. It's impossible for 1 guild to get everything on a patch or pseudo patch and having most or nothing in window forces guilds to choose and allows more than the top 1-2 guilds to get stuff even on non patch days. It also burns people who choose to pursue raiding out much slower because they get off days.


I've mentioned this so many times now it's not even funny, both on the forums and on IRC. It's never once been commented on or replied to or, afiak, given any thought by the staff.

Changing the variance to 2 or 3hrs, and doing bi-tri weekly repops is probably the best fix for the raiding scene and has been the best that I've seen out of all the suggestions given.

you could possibly even make all raid targets have the same respawn window, forcing guilds to have more choices. Which means higher guilds can block less targets. Then the small guilds to large guilds all have a chance at targets. Even if a guild chooses to sock a raid target, they take the risk of having to wait an hour or so while other targets spawn.

I also think the bi/tri weekly respawns be somewhat random and not the same time/day predictably.

[Razdeline]

But I understand where Nilbog may be a little hesitant, by making any changes he would be walking a tight-rope that could affect the balance of the server.

Although, the only way to know if anything will work is to try. Similar to the development cycle of any software program.

[Ele]

Not to discount that FTE shout is a good idea in itself, but the responses to this are correct. LvL 1 gnome enchanter, sitting down, first in zone, sitting there for days. Should that really be the deciding factor of a claim?

An FTE shout, while "not classic", would obviate the need to bring GMs in to determine which raid had a right to first engage/loot after a contested boss dies. Granted there might be other issues such as training, but trying to figure out who had FTE is nerve racking when two raids think they had it without getting a GM involved.

It would also provide immediate notice for the raid without FTE to either stop attacking and back off or to provide assistance. The lvl 1 gnome wouldn't get far if the other raid backed out. At the same time I could see arguments made that the lvl 1 gnome could get lucky and sneak it in and trying to camp a raid at that point would result in a wipe.

[Razdeline]

..........

[Razdeline]

Not to discount that FTE shout is a good idea in itself, but the responses to this are correct. LvL 1 gnome enchanter, sitting down, first in zone, sitting there for days. Should that really be the deciding factor of a claim?


The players themselves have opportunities to change the raiding scene. They do not.

Mob shouts the first few people to attack it, if anyone is not of appropriate level getting the FTE it obv~ wouldn't count.

[Visual]

Why so large, raid guilds?


http://foodbeast.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/zerg.jpg

We have killed numerous targets with ~20 players lately due to low turnout. Some of these like Talendor were up for some time before we even recognized it due to spot checking.

There has been plenty of opportunities for other guilds to get raid mobs.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Not to discount that FTE shout is a good idea in itself, but the responses to this are correct. LvL 1 gnome enchanter, sitting down, first in zone, sitting there for days. Should that really be the deciding factor of a claim?


The players themselves have opportunities to change the raiding scene. They do not.

you are right about FTE being a bad idea to enforce on low level characters... so simply make it a raid rule that a player must be a certain level before being allowed FTE.

This in no way limits lower level players from participating in raids.. just claiming FTE.


you are also right that players have an opportunity to change the raid scene themselves..


but just like any other unregulated human endeavor.. people strive to get better and better.. eventually one group/business/person becomes powerful enough to crush the competition and it makes sense that they would do what is necessary to stay on top because its by no means easy to get there.


competition cannot exist in a free market unless it is forced to exist.. the US government realized this over 100 years ago with monopoly busting.. I'm sure the same sort of sentiment can be applied here.. no meaningful competition can exist when there is one overly dominant player.

[Danyelle]

Lower spawn variance to anywhere between 2 hours to 1 day MAX (max variance length dependent upon difficulty of encounter).

Simulated "patch" days anywhere from 2 weeks to a month apart. Don't schedule them, at least not often, make it a surprise. Hell, make up some bullcrap "we fixed this" excuse. Or even just post old patch notes from Live. Could even have the EQEmu launcher update eqlsnews.txt and force the News window to display upon patch like Live did/does if you want to emulate legitimacy.

Don't limit guild sizes. It's just stupid imo. In fact, I can only see that making this worse.

Don't GM enforce rotations. But the players SHOULD take it upon themselves to set these up from time to time, and not just on an epic mob or two, and they shouldn't be permanent when set up. Maybe a month or two at a time before it goes back to FTE.

Done.

[Danyelle]

Also if you're worried about the newb trash toon thing on the FTE shout:

sub EVENT_AGGRO{
if($ulevel > 44){
quest::shout("$name has engaged.");
}
}

[Autotune]

should change the variance to 2hrs put all raid targets on a 7day timer and then do bi weekly repops.

This way, you'll have all mobs spawned, they will all be killed within a few hours of each other, which means that a week from then they will all spawn in a block of a few hours.

Now if a guild chooses to poopsock a mob prior to windows, they take a risk of it spawning late and losing other targets. Even if a guild can poopsock and mobilize for other targets, they are still limiting what they could do normally. It would also allow other guilds to sit for a few hours and pick up raid targets as well if nothing else, giving them targets that they normally wouldn't be able to get.

With a bi weekly repop the targets wouldn't get too far apart in windows as well, keeping things close. This would also free up huge tracking hours that raid guilds put in that causes burn out and allow them to actually play alts and help the server they play on.

this is the last time i brought it up, time before that was a day or so before i posted when i mentioned it in IRC during a discussion about it. I had also mentioned it in IRC a few days before that discussion. Everytime it's either ignored, kills the discussion or, by some divine hand, is somehow just not seen.

[Asedo]

Here is the problem on the server. You have one guild that is willing to do whatever it takes to get a dragon killed. The other 90% of the server feel that RL is more important then pixels. We have lots and lots of people that would love to see end game pixels. I can pretty much say that most of the server would love a rotation but without TMO leadership talking to the other guilds it will never happen. Cause without all guilds agreeing to some type of rotation. The one guild will through it all off. Another thing to think of is the more guilds fight over pixels the less work gets done on velious and the longer it takes. Cause really TMO needs nothing and is just killin the mobs to cock block all the other guilds. Lets just enjoy the population boost and the week left til everything goes back to normal with a population back down to about 150. So til TMO decides to play nice the server will suffer. Changing spawn times and all that type of junk will solve nothing. Respawning raid mobs all bi or tri weekly will all be killed by tmo and would ruin the marketplace in game. So i say leaving everything as is and we just pray that TMO will decide to stop acting like a bunch of little kids about it.

[Autotune]

Here is the problem on the server. You have one guild that is willing to do whatever it takes to get a dragon killed. The other 90% of the server feel that RL is more important then pixels. We have lots and lots of people that would love to see end game pixels. I can pretty much say that most of the server would love a rotation but without TMO leadership talking to the other guilds it will never happen. Cause without all guilds agreeing to some type of rotation. The one guild will through it all off. Another thing to think of is the more guilds fight over pixels the less work gets done on velious and the longer it takes. Cause really TMO needs nothing and is just killin the mobs to cock block all the other guilds. Lets just enjoy the population boost and the week left til everything goes back to normal with a population back down to about 150. So til TMO decides to play nice the server will suffer. Changing spawn times and all that type of junk will solve nothing. Respawning raid mobs all bi or tri weekly will all be killed by tmo and would ruin the marketplace in game. So i say leaving everything as is and we just pray that TMO will decide to stop acting like a bunch of little kids about it.

I've read your opinion and have decided that it is actually worthless.

[Joroz]

One huge difference that I've witnessed on p99 compared to my eqlive server experience is the massive amounts of players per raiding guild.

On classic live, I'm not sure if it was the inter-guild conflicts, lack of enough loot to go around, or generally wanting to compete, but there were never guilds this large.


Why so large, raid guilds?


http://foodbeast.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/zerg.jpg

pixels are only valuable on p99 if you collect them all...

[Xadion]

as for guild size on live I was in a 2nd tier guild on veeshan while dealing with foh coe cd etc and we often had 50 to 72... 72 being the max number on the in game raid window. I have seen 100 strong fear raids in classic...

what people consider zerg vary greatly depending on what they think raids should be.

[Splorf22]

Shiftin is being a little rude but I can see where he is coming from. We've had a ton of discussion (and more flaming, hehe) but just about everyone has come to the conclusion that simultaneous repops/server resets is the the best combination of classic and reasonable. There have been at least 10 major threads on this. I personally have been arguing for this since January. So has Giegue. It kinda feels like you have been a bit out of touch with just how sucky the raid scene has been for the past 6+ months and only started actually caring when the population dropped like a rock.

[Corrodith]

competition cannot exist in a free market unless it is forced to exist.. the US government realized this over 100 years ago with monopoly busting.. I'm sure the same sort of sentiment can be applied here.. no meaningful competition can exist when there is one overly dominant player.

^^ knows nothing of economics. please don't come on here and spread your government school filth. thanks.

[Greeedy]

^^ knows nothing of economics. please don't come on here and spread your government school filth. thanks.

Go read more Hayek and gtfo please.

[Tasslehofp99]

Here is the problem on the server. You have one guild that is willing to do whatever it takes to get a dragon killed. The other 90% of the server feel that RL is more important then pixels. We have lots and lots of people that would love to see end game pixels. I can pretty much say that most of the server would love a rotation but without TMO leadership talking to the other guilds it will never happen. Cause without all guilds agreeing to some type of rotation. The one guild will through it all off. Another thing to think of is the more guilds fight over pixels the less work gets done on velious and the longer it takes. Cause really TMO needs nothing and is just killin the mobs to cock block all the other guilds. Lets just enjoy the population boost and the week left til everything goes back to normal with a population back down to about 150. So til TMO decides to play nice the server will suffer. Changing spawn times and all that type of junk will solve nothing. Respawning raid mobs all bi or tri weekly will all be killed by tmo and would ruin the marketplace in game. So i say leaving everything as is and we just pray that TMO will decide to stop acting like a bunch of little kids about it.



Yeah good post, and agree with you on many of your points. Its just unfortunate the raid scene has gotten so unbearable that people actually quit playing.

[Alarti0001]

but just like any other unregulated human endeavor.. people strive to get better and better.. eventually one group/business/person becomes powerful enough to crush the competition and it makes sense that they would do what is necessary to stay on top because its by no means easy to get there.


competition cannot exist in a free market unless it is forced to exist.. the US government realized this over 100 years ago with monopoly busting.. I'm sure the same sort of sentiment can be applied here.. no meaningful competition can exist when there is one overly dominant player.

.....You contradicted yourself here

[Slave]

Did you happen to see the raid scene prior to variance? I mean.. ultimately we would have everything we could 100% classic with no changes.. but there's a reason it was instituted in the first place.

Everyone here has seen the raid scene after variance, and evidenced by the huge die-off of population, the server has determined that it is not acceptable that one guild get 90% of the targets through a mechanic that is not even Classic to begin with.


Not to discount that FTE shout is a good idea in itself, but the responses to this are correct. LvL 1 gnome enchanter, sitting down, first in zone, sitting there for days. Should that really be the deciding factor of a claim?


If this is the best reason you can come up with to deny the FTE shout addition to raids, then

sub EVENT_AGGRO{
if($ulevel > 44){
quest::shout("$name has engaged.");
}
}

and let's get it done!

It's an exciting time to be on P99 when the developers are here in forums and concerned about what is happening. The grand majority of us are very much looking forward to your solutions regarding this mess that variance has made. Thank you for all your time and effort on P99, Nilbog. It's probably the best game ever made.

[Supaskillz]

sub EVENT_AGGRO{
if($ulevel > 44){
quest::shout("$name has engaged.");
}
}[/CODE]

and let's get it done!

.
Why is a lvl 44 person afk for days better than a lvl. 1?

[LizardNecro]

The players themselves have opportunities to change the raiding scene. They do not.

I would respectfully disagree with you. There have been multiple open raids for the most desirable targets (Trak) recently. Many targets have been left up for days, and guilds that have wanted tries at targets have gotten those tries without interference. The players have had the opportunity to change the scene and have done so.

[Shiftin]

Why is a lvl 44 person afk for days better than a lvl. 1?

at which spawn in kunark or classic can a level 44 sit afk without dying?

All 4 kunark dragons have either pathing see invis mobs or water making this impossible.

Trak and VS lair are full of mobs. Fear and hate have see invis pathers.

[Supaskillz]

at which spawn in kunark or classic can a level 44 sit afk without dying?

All 4 kunark dragons have either pathing see invis mobs or water making this impossible.

Trak and VS lair are full of mobs. Fear and hate have see invis pathers.

You only have to be at the spawn point rigth when it spawns when all of the raids will be there also. Also Trks lair is hardly full of see invis mobs, about one in 10 juggs has see invis. Either way I don't see how a fte shout means you can have zero variance without serious problem. I would personally be in favor of shorter windows to reduce tedium in the raid scene, though they cannot be so short as to entice poopsocking I think

[Splorf22]

This is why the big idea is server reboots and the small idea is FTE shouts.

[kaev]

.....You contradicted yourself here

No, he didn't. Competition ends when there is a winner, barring an imposed reset imposed by mutually agreed rules (new season in sports competitions, for example), or by an outside rulegiver, doesn't matter. Pretending that sitting on the others' head after achieving a dominant position constitutes some sort of competition is bullshit, aka a flat-out lie.

[Danyelle]

at which spawn in kunark or classic can a level 44 sit afk without dying?

All 4 kunark dragons have either pathing see invis mobs or water making this impossible.

Trak and VS lair are full of mobs. Fear and hate have see invis pathers.

Well the point is you wouldn't want people doing that. But I just picked a random level anyway, one that's high but not max level. That would indicate the toon was worked on and not rolled for the sole purpose of defecating in footwear. The level, of course, would be subject to debate. The fact is, the script works.

[Alarti0001]

No, he didn't. Competition ends when there is a winner, barring an imposed reset imposed by mutually agreed rules (new season in sports competitions, for example), or by an outside rulegiver, doesn't matter. Pretending that sitting on the others' head after achieving a dominant position constitutes some sort of competition is bullshit, aka a flat-out lie.

IB was the winner we came competed and won. Anyone else can come compete just start round 2?

[deneauth]

Alarti, when TMO's suspension is over are you guys going to roflstomp the server or not? Just curious is all. I haven't been playing all that much in the past two weeks but the atmosphere on the forums has changed it would seem. Care to comment?

[Alarti0001]

Alarti, when TMO's suspension is over are you guys going to roflstomp the server or not? Just curious is all. I haven't been playing all that much in the past two weeks but the atmosphere on the forums has changed it would seem. Care to comment?

gonna do what tmo always does. win

[deneauth]

Haha that will make for an interesting read later, thanks for the update :)

[bylbob]

Maybe we will not have to wait 4 months for next tap on the wrist errr i mean temporary ban.

[Autotune]

Maybe we will not have to wait 4 months for next tap on the wrist errr i mean temporary ban.

oh look, one of those shitty players from a shitty guild that died. Wonder why he so upset.

[Liukang]

gonna do what tmo always does. win

i just gotta know a few things .....why didnt any of the top guilds on my live server 12 years ago ever get raid suspended ? they killed the same mobs your killing now ? how do you get raid suspended on a 12 year old game ?
how do you get raid suspended when your zerging every mob you attempt ? sounds kinda weak and pathetic if you sit back and think about it . your fighting these mobs over and over and over with twice as many people as you need and u still have to do something to cross the line to defeat them ? why ???? just wondering ..... so figured id ask .... its starting to smell like ass and cigarettes so im sure stealin is somewhere close by to open his mouth

[Safon]

Give TMO a chance to prove they are not TR, we will see what happens when the 28th rolls around

[Arteker]

i just gotta know a few things .....why didnt any of the top guilds on my live server 12 years ago ever get raid suspended ? they killed the same mobs your killing now ? how do you get raid suspended on a 12 year old game ?
how do you get raid suspended when your zerging every mob you attempt ? sounds kinda weak and pathetic if you sit back and think about it . your fighting these mobs over and over and over with twice as many people as you need and u still have to do something to cross the line to defeat them ? why ???? just wondering ..... so figured id ask .... its starting to smell like ass and cigarettes so im sure stealin is somewhere close by to open his mouth
unless gms where watching a raid they wouldnt do a shit and most where guides with no real power.

[Xadion]

i just gotta know a few things .....why didnt any of the top guilds on my live server 12 years ago ever get raid suspended ? they killed the same mobs your killing now ? how do you get raid suspended on a 12 year old game ?
how do you get raid suspended when your zerging every mob you attempt ? sounds kinda weak and pathetic if you sit back and think about it . your fighting these mobs over and over and over with twice as many people as you need and u still have to do something to cross the line to defeat them ? why ???? just wondering ..... so figured id ask .... its starting to smell like ass and cigarettes so im sure stealin is somewhere close by to open his mouth

p99 GMs do not = live GMs

on live they where very light on any banning etc because it caused PAYING customers to stop paying etc etc so that imo is a poor relation to make- and as stated by the admins, there are many MANY more tools available for them to police player activity now than ever on live.

[Alarti0001]

Give TMO a chance to prove they are not TR, we will see what happens when the 28th rolls around

We aren't TR we proved that by beating them, then giving back to the server, you guys just cried about your handouts.

Its like you waited in the welfare line and when they gave you soup, you demanded a filet.

[deneauth]

When I asked that question yesterday I was looking for a more serious answer than Alarti gave but got the answer I expected. I would like to know if TMO will come back with a chip on their shoulder like the old days or are they going to try something different. It doesn't mean much saying TMO will do what hey always do, win because they already won, for lack of a better description. If the server got steam rolled it would pretty much be out of spite. It's just my opinion and I don't mind one way or another how it all turns out but I am genuinely curious and I bet others are too.

[Bruman]

What people fail to realize is that the majority of the server just isn't interested in playing how TMO plays.

EQ is a poor game to try be competitive in. It's just not designed for it. The challenge is in downing the mob, anything after that is artificial and generally silly to care about.

Everyone knows there are several guilds that can kill most raid targets, and at least TMO and BDA can handle the top end stuff too (like Gore, Trak, and honestly after VP keys are finished for the teeth we have, VP shouldn't be a problem either). So at that point the game becomes "who can train better in VP" and "who can wake up more raiders to log on at all hours", which is a really stupid game to play.

[deneauth]

What people fail to realize is that the majority of the server just isn't interested in playing how TMO plays.

EQ is a poor game to try be competitive in. It's just not designed for it. The challenge is in downing the mob, anything after that is artificial and generally silly to care about.

Everyone knows there are several guilds that can kill most raid targets, and at least TMO and BDA can handle the top end stuff too (like Gore, Trak, and honestly after VP keys are finished for the teeth we have, VP shouldn't be a problem either). So at that point the game becomes "who can train better in VP" and "who can wake up more raiders to log on at all hours", which is a really stupid game to play.

I have seen the excuse for the last paragraph of your post before, the answer was they put up with it from IB and thus so should you from them. Which is a terrible way to look at anything and in real life situations that argument holds no water. The server could use a fresh new take on endgame raiding then perhaps casuals like myself might even try to raid again. I am completely indifferent about raiding right now because there is no point wasting energy getting upset over something so silly but I would enjoy seeing content I never got to see on live. If I ever got a VP key no way would I want to go into that zone and get trained for 8 hours straight. Not fun at all. Fun for the trainers I suppose but its a waste of my time.

[Wolfleader]

Let's just call it like it is. Raiding is "broken" on P99 because of a handful of dildos who refuse to just play nice. If you remove said dildos, your buttholes won't hurt so much. Just sayin'.

[Tr0llb0rn]

lots of content waiting to be raided on red99, come get some, problem solved.

fight others for the content instead of sitting around waiting on variance? ditto with item camps,etc.

[Onshuu]

Redistribute the raid mobs! We the 99%! Occupy EC!

TMO beats you to raids, y u mad tho?

[Alarti0001]

I have seen the excuse for the last paragraph of your post before, the answer was they put up with it from IB and thus so should you from them. Which is a terrible way to look at anything and in real life situations that argument holds no water. The server could use a fresh new take on endgame raiding then perhaps casuals like myself might even try to raid again. I am completely indifferent about raiding right now because there is no point wasting energy getting upset over something so silly but I would enjoy seeing content I never got to see on live. If I ever got a VP key no way would I want to go into that zone and get trained for 8 hours straight. Not fun at all. Fun for the trainers I suppose but its a waste of my time.

I in no way speak for guild leadership but I fully expect TMO to come back and kill everything, we are a raid guild who hasnt raided in two weeks for you to expect anything different is naive. How long we will continue to track and kill less important targets is the question. I dont have an answer to that

[deneauth]

I in no way speak for guild leadership but I fully expect TMO to come back and kill everything, we are a raid guild who hasnt raided in two weeks for you to expect anything different is naive. How long we will continue to track and kill less important targets is the question. I dont have an answer to that

I do understand, I am not naive, I guess I was stirring the pot and for that I apologize. I just want to get some brainstorming started on where we can all go from here. It's not like I was trying to say you all should refrain from raiding altogether because that is just unreasonable. The targets you all kill that you don't need anymore might as well be left up for others to kill beacuse what would the point in killing them be anyway? But yeah it's not like I am speaking for anyone in particular other than myself right now, just throwing some opinions out there you know?

[Alarti0001]

I do understand, I am not naive, I guess I was stirring the pot and for that I apologize. I just want to get some brainstorming started on where we can all go from here. It's not like I was trying to say you all should refrain from raiding altogether because that is just unreasonable. The targets you all kill that you don't need anymore might as well be left up for others to kill beacuse what would the point in killing them be anyway? But yeah it's not like I am speaking for anyone in particular other than myself right now, just throwing some opinions out there you know?

Sorry my "you" was meant for the general populace not a direct response.

Imo release an optional velious beta so we can go testing

[deneauth]

Sorry my "you" was meant for the general populace not a direct response.

Imo release an optional velious beta so we can go testing

Aye, until then I guess patience is our best bet hehe!

[Autotune]

What people fail to realize is that the majority of the server just isn't interested in playing how TMO plays.

EQ is a poor game to try be competitive in. It's just not designed for it. The challenge is in downing the mob, anything after that is artificial and generally silly to care about.

Everyone knows there are several guilds that can kill most raid targets, and at least TMO and BDA can handle the top end stuff too (like Gore, Trak, and honestly after VP keys are finished for the teeth we have, VP shouldn't be a problem either). So at that point the game becomes "who can train better in VP" and "who can wake up more raiders to log on at all hours", which is a really stupid game to play.

EQ is a great game for competition. However, most people are carebears and don't learn how to fully utilize their characters. It's not hard to steal a train and derail it, but most people don't want to do it because it involves more than "tank and spank".

It's just sad that p99 has the WoW mentality raiding aspect from players." Let's all do absolutely nothing challenging and all end up in the same pixels and talk in chat rooms." Sounds dumb, is dumb.

[Nirgon]

Here's the thing.

The wrong approach is "we deserve mobs" - that's exactly how the guys on top feel, BUT they are willing to (if they do work) drag in everyday heavy eyed etc, play till it hurts. That's supply and demand. You have a demand but can't seem to supply the effort.

Trust me when I say if you guys wanted to compete for, say, another mob.. there's a good chance you could post a tracker there and have people camped out to kill it.

That said, you don't have to kill Trakanon or VP dragons or Venril to enjoy the game. Those spawns, are in fact, and were in 1999, held down by the top guild.. accept it.

Do your epics and plane of sky and shit. A lot of that shit is best in slot and I don't think is hyper contested.

The good news in Velious is that I think spawns like King Tormaxx and probably Plane of Growth will be all up for grabs until you're ready to put the pedal to the metal and fight for shit like 7th talismans.

Part of the FAIL of this current gaming culture is "well if I don't get to kill the highest end content, I'm not playing". Wtf.



Imo release an optional velious beta so we can go testing


He has a very strong point. Ball is in the staff's court if they REALLY WANT TO corral TMO away from current targets. I'm sure it is being worked on right now and may be absolutely in no shape of ready, but its a beta let them make the laundry lists and do the finer points of testing for you.

[falkun]

Stealin:
I have a blast derailing trains from other people to save their group or just show it can be done, the challenge of dealing with the extra mobs and all.

I don't enjoy derailing trains getting dropped on top of me because another entity is trying to ruin my day. If someone is going to ruin my day, I want the ability to ruin theirs right back. That's why game-developers created first person shooters, team-based games, and fight games. DOTA, TF2, WoW battlegrounds, PVP servers, CS:S, MW4, Tekken, all of these games were developed so people could bash their heads against each other and proclaim victory. Dropping a train on someone to intentionally screw with them is like the toddler that comes in and bulldozes the other's sand castle. It's beyond childish and no one does it passed age 4, except with internet anonymity.

Nirgon:
And here is where your argument falls apart:
and were in 1999

The ball, as Nilbog has pointed out (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=671819&postcount=34), is in *our* court as players. Fighting over 13 year old content is something the top minority has inflicted upon this server and the only reason it is that way is because those toddlers get jollies knocking over our 13 year old sand castle.

[Alarti0001]

That's supply and demand.

Velious increases the Supply.

@falkun I wonder where you get your statistics from. Based on average server population TMO is roughly 20-25% of the active server population. Alot of guilds out there aren't actively trying to raid. Where do you get this majority from?

[Arteker]

Here's the thing.







He has a very strong point. Ball is in the staff's court if they REALLY WANT TO corral TMO away from current targets. I'm sure it is being worked on right now and may be absolutely in no shape of ready, but its a beta let them make the laundry lists and do the finer points of testing for you.
Actualy would be a great deal , let people test velious with the promise they will do it full time and will not raid on p99.

sideffects: u know people would have a brutal edge when velious release happen . but world isnt perfect

[Lagaidh]

I've been out in the real world doing things for the past couple of weeks. Bored at work on a Monday during lunch so I pop over to p99.

Finally get the skinny on the raid bans I'd heard about...

I see the new GM rule about training and agro...

I see players posting.

There are some serious adult brats on this server. That's all there is to it. Either side can argue their points until blue in the face and all I keep thinking is: geez... what a brat.

/shrug

I'll bet for a commoner like me, it's still great to just log in and goof off =) I'd hoped to raid on this server, but if I take what I read at face value, it just doesn't look like it's going to be worth the time. As an old electrician told me one summer: you'd get more out of poundin' yer pud.

Am I way off base on this? Seems like the raiding scene drama's been nearly non-stop for two years here. Shame really- it's such a small community to begin with. There's literally a population low enough that everybody on this server could get to enjoy all of the content in an orderly fashion, but for some reason, conflict is created...

Meh. Bored work musings.

[deneauth]

I would love to start testing beta for velious, but patience is key for everything at this point. I have done all the content so far accept VP and I am not going in there. That whole training for hours on end thing really sets my hair on end.

[Slave]

Based on average server population TMO is roughly 20-25% of the active server population.

/who "the mystical order" all
There are 12 players in EverQuest

/who all count
There are 236 players in EverQuest

Unless there are a LOT of ashamed TMO out there /anon, which is a decent possibility considering your recent fall(s) from grace, we are wondering where YOU come up with these numbers.

[radditsu]

Velious increases the Supply.

@falkun I wonder where you get your statistics from. Based on average server population TMO is roughly 20-25% of the active server population. Alot of guilds out there aren't actively trying to raid. Where do you get this majority from?


I think the current state of BDA has significantly more active members than you guys think. At any point in the day i can /who all guild and get too many to list. At this moment I am only seeing 10 of you guys. Granted, very unscientific, but still its some evidence of your active server population may be a tad skewed. Combined with the other guild who actively want to raid but have no mobs to raid due to the current state of affairs of the server. I think the "majority" swings in our favor. I am sure you guys can login at a moments notice alt tabbing from D3 or whatever. Like i said, non scientific.

Honestly i would consider anything with above 20% of a server population a zerg. Both BDA and TMO included. The server "rules" with outrageous amount of off hours pops force us to. We have to be on european time / american time. Usually on live there was a euro guild getting all those mobs hitting in the middle of the night.

Just sayin.

[Greeedy]

Cant RMT the test server things to yourself - wont happen.

[Alarti0001]

/who "the mystical order" all
There are 12 players in EverQuest

/who all count
There are 236 players in EverQuest

Unless there are a LOT of ashamed TMO out there /anon, which is a decent possibility considering your recent fall(s) from grace, we are wondering where YOU come up with these numbers.

DERP, you take an average count while we are on raid suspension and during USA working hours. DERP DERP DERP

[Alarti0001]

I think the current state of BDA has significantly more active members than you guys think. At any point in the day i can /who all guild and get too many to list. At this moment I am only seeing 10 of you guys. Granted, very unscientific, but still its some evidence of your active server population may be a tad skewed. Combined with the other guild who actively want to raid but have no mobs to raid due to the current state of affairs of the server. I think the "majority" swings in our favor. I am sure you guys can login at a moments notice alt tabbing from D3 or whatever. Like i said, non scientific.

Honestly i would consider anything with above 20% of a server population a zerg. Both BDA and TMO included. The server "rules" with outrageous amount of off hours pops force us to. We have to be on european time / american time. Usually on live there was a euro guild getting all those mobs hitting in the middle of the night.

Just sayin.

So everyone in BDA is an active raider, im willing to bet there are many in BDA without any interest in raiding whatsoever.

[radditsu]

So everyone in BDA is an active raider, im willing to bet there are many in BDA without any interest in raiding whatsoever.

If you are online, you raid, unless you got to take care of RL.


Because RL > EQ. /shock /gasp

And like i said above we have a healthy population at pretty much any hour.

[Arteker]

I think the current state of BDA has significantly more active . We have to be on european time / american time. Usually on live there was a euro guild getting all those mobs hitting in the middle of the night.

Just sayin.
that was me , as euro in a high end guild we made most usa guild cry on tears. yeah we lost alot of time due patches being in our main time frame but we got more candys .

[Autotune]

/who "the mystical order" all
There are 12 players in EverQuest

/who all count
There are 236 players in EverQuest

Unless there are a LOT of ashamed TMO out there /anon, which is a decent possibility considering your recent fall(s) from grace, we are wondering where YOU come up with these numbers.

no wonder you suck at life and everquest. You should have quickly edited this.

[Nirgon]

Supply goes up, guild can only be in so many places at once, make your kills.

I've shuffled around and seen plenty of people with epics and sky loots. There's a raid scene, its just not VP loots for all.

[Atmas]

/who "the mystical order" all
There are 12 players in EverQuest

/who all count
There are 236 players in EverQuest

Unless there are a LOT of ashamed TMO out there /anon, which is a decent possibility considering your recent fall(s) from grace, we are wondering where YOU come up with these numbers.

I don't think TMO is actually the high a percentage of the population, but this test doesn't even take into account the number of members playing alts that aren't in TMO.

I think TMO does represent a decent percentage of the people who have been active for several months.

[touchtonedialing]

I don't think TMO is actually the high a percentage of the population, but this test doesn't even take into account the number of members playing alts that aren't in TMO.

I think TMO does represent a decent percentage of the people who have been active for several months.

You have to count the TMO alt guild Enraptured to.

[Tasslehofp99]

Velious increases the Supply.

@falkun I wonder where you get your statistics from. Based on average server population TMO is roughly 20-25% of the active server population. Alot of guilds out there aren't actively trying to raid. Where do you get this majority from?

heh, there are atleast 2-3 other guilds that aren't TMO/BDA that want to raid but aren't willing to poopsock/give up their RL jobs to get pixels. That doesn't mean they dont deserve to experience some content as well. While it is true the top guilds did hold down a majority of the content on live during this period in the game, other guilds did get stuff though which rarely happens on p99. It seems that the top end guild(s) would rather hold down raid targets to gear their alts up rather then give the server a shot to experience shit that they have monopolized for over a year.

[Alarti0001]

heh, there are atleast 2-3 other guilds that aren't TMO/BDA that want to raid but aren't willing to poopsock/give up their RL jobs to get pixels. That doesn't mean they dont deserve to experience some content as well. While it is true the top guilds did hold down a majority of the content on live during this period in the game, other guilds did get stuff though which rarely happens on p99. It seems that the top end guild(s) would rather hold down raid targets to gear their alts up rather then give the server a shot to experience shit that they have monopolized for over a year.

How do you "deserve" this? EQ is effort based.

[touchtonedialing]

heh, there are atleast 2-3 other guilds that aren't TMO/BDA that want to raid but aren't willing to poopsock/give up their RL jobs to get pixels.

The other guilds had the perfect opportunity over the past two weeks to show that they could and Divinity was the only other guild that even attempted anything. Open raid targets popping in prime time is about as non poopsock/giving up RL jobs as you can get.

Eventually these other guilds need to take a bit of initiative and work if they want raid targets.

They had the perfect opportunity and all they did was show up to open raids, take up space then roll on items they really had no part in getting.

[Autotune]

The other guilds had the perfect opportunity over the past two weeks to show that they could and Divinity was the only other guild that even attempted anything. Open raid targets popping in prime time is about as non poopsock/giving up RL jobs as you can get.

Eventually these other guilds need to take a bit of initiative and work if they want raid targets.

They had the perfect opportunity and all they did was show up to open raids, take up space then roll on items they really had no part in getting.

sounds about right.

[Splorf22]

I've been out in the real world doing things for the past couple of weeks. Bored at work on a Monday during lunch so I pop over to p99.

Finally get the skinny on the raid bans I'd heard about...

I see the new GM rule about training and agro...

I see players posting.

There are some serious adult brats on this server. That's all there is to it. Either side can argue their points until blue in the face and all I keep thinking is: geez... what a brat.

/shrug

I'll bet for a commoner like me, it's still great to just log in and goof off =) I'd hoped to raid on this server, but if I take what I read at face value, it just doesn't look like it's going to be worth the time. As an old electrician told me one summer: you'd get more out of poundin' yer pud.

Am I way off base on this? Seems like the raiding scene drama's been nearly non-stop for two years here. Shame really- it's such a small community to begin with. There's literally a population low enough that everybody on this server could get to enjoy all of the content in an orderly fashion, but for some reason, conflict is created...

Meh. Bored work musings.

Personally I agree with this. However, you have to understand that we have two types of people on this server: the 90% which want to experience the stuff they never got to do on Live for whatever reason, and the 10% who want to be the best by stepping on the 90% as much as possible. The vast majority of what goes on in these threads are people from each side just not understanding the perspective of the others.

Which is why we need raid rules that allow both sides to get their fix, i.e. competition but limited in some ways. Variance turns out to only amp up the competition, hence the desire for simultaneous repops. We can only hope that this is Nilbog's proposal.

[touchtonedialing]

sounds about right.

You need to realize that you have to give them the opportunity though. People got to see encounters that they never would have if TMO had not got banned.

It was healthy for the server and let people get a taste of these encounters. The server is bleeding people and things need to be done to save it.

People may not have formed over the past two weeks but with a rotation, every 3-4 of all raid mobs would be open and it would be the light at the end of the tunnel they would need to get people motivated to put in the work.

You cant just kill everything within minutes of it spawning then complain that people dont want to "put in the work" by losing over and over for months. Killing dragons is easy, training other guilds and poop socking is the work people dont want to put in.

[Nirgon]

How many/which targets went unslain during this time.

[touchtonedialing]

How many/which targets went unslain during this time.

Everything died with the exception of a few VP dragons. Im sure if BDA had more keys they would have died as well.

[Greeedy]

gonna do what tmo always does. win

By 'always' you mean for approx. 5 months? Check the server lifetime much?

Why is this guy such a tool?????

[Nirgon]

Everything died with the exception of a few VP dragons. Im sure if BDA had more keys they would have died as well.

Intredasting

[Versus]

/who "the mystical order" all
There are 12 players in EverQuest

/who all count
There are 236 players in EverQuest

Unless there are a LOT of ashamed TMO out there /anon, which is a decent possibility considering your recent fall(s) from grace, we are wondering where YOU come up with these numbers.

I can't fucking wait for next month when we're back to being called a zerg guild. You guys are perpetually mad at something. You claim we're all jobless basement dwellers because we have a different playstyle. People work shift work, have days off mid-week, and live in different countries. Before the suspension, we were only fielding 20-35 on average for targets.

Like someone said earlier, Trak/VS/VP were always locked down by the top dog. As far as killing the other shit "just to cockblock," someone will always need a Tobrin's off Vox/Talendor, WR bags, CoF, BCG, AoN, Shield of Rainbow Hues, etc.

I'd be just as happy to respond to batphones and kill shit and give the other guilds the loot we don't need, but something tells me ya'll wouldn't be cool with that either.

Rotations just aren't fun, IMO. Periodic respawns and the release of Velious will cure this server. Every single outdoor Kunark dragon will be infinitely easier to obtain as well as Trak/VP. Velious will occupy TMO/BDA and all the high end Velious gear will make VP shit obsolete, minus Phara Dar and a few select pieces from the other dopes in there.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Ask the other guilds, and ask the GMs who have had to deal with zero raid drama... the TMO raid suspension was a glimpse of how the raiding scene on this server *could* be. Every other guild is willing to share and work together and rotate even high priority targets like Trak and VS. We're /randoming on stuff in VP between three different guilds, for crying out loud. Could that even happen if TMO were not suspended? No. Because they have deemed the rest of us have not "earned" those pixels or the right to those encounters. Somewhere along the way, they crowned themselves gatekeepers of all the loot and have taken it upon themselves to decide who is worthy and who is just "getting handouts."

The ONLY guild on the server who thinks "competition" at the level they pursue it is "fun" is TMO. The rest of us don't find that fun at all. Yet, because one guild isn't willing to work out a rotation, they inflict their will against all other guilds. What gives them that right? Because they have the most players willing to "do what it takes" and risk getting raid banned time and time again in order to get pixels?

Again, nilbog is right... we all have the power to change it. If TMO wants to treat the rest of us this way, then boycott them. Guildleaders... mandate from your guilds a strict refusal to group with them, and their alts, and all the people they have tucked away in Enraptured all sneaky-like. Stop talking to them. Stop buffing them. Stop buying and selling from/to them. Just stop interacting with them all together. When their membership no longer finds it fun to log in for their trinkets and then log out because no one else on the server wants to have anything to do with them, maybe they'll put the appropriate pressure on their leadership, if they're not already doing so in response to the poor-decision making that led to their two week raid-suspension to begin with.

Oh, and if you do the FTE shout thing, re-define FTE as "the first guild to do X amount of damage to the mob" and check for that. That'll make kiting mobs a thing of the past as well as GM intervention after the fact to determine who had FTE and potentially having to re-distribute loot. Then you can't just put AFK people there to get on the hate list first... you actually have to engage the mob with a KS group and with enough of a raid force where you plan to win. The FTE shout will let the opposing guild know they can pull their forces out and let the FTE guild try their luck with whatever they engaged with.

[Geofizzle]

What Yendor never really understood, because he's never been in TMO, is that we have many players who play for the love of the game and the server itself. EQ was always about competition, raiding, and intense styles of play, so I have no idea what universe you're living on. You're one of those people who just use TMO as a scapegoat because the server isn't exactly how YOU'D want it. Utopias are unattainable, and people have different perceptions of what makes up a server that's worth playing on. You just can't bear the fact that someone has a different opinion of what a great server is comprised of. So, please kindly sir, stop using server chat as a "blame TMO" channel, it isn't constructive at all.

[Versus]

Part of the problem is that Classic EQ didn't have a forum outlet for this crybaby bullshit. Also, if you didn't like it, you'd just stop paying for it.

On Povar, it was generally understood that Triton was top dog, and whatever Rising Ascension/Blades of Law got, they worked for. That being said, in 1999, the expansions kept rolling in, so the gear gap kept widening and the ability to mess with the same mobs wasn't as much of a problem.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Competition and challenge have a different interpretation to people


For me, the challenge of a game should be the content itself.. not some artificial construct beyond the game. (ie who can have the most accounts parked strategically through out the game world) which is inherently anti-competitive.


when the game comes down to who has the most accounts.. the guild with the most plat to purchase accounts gains an advantage.. then uses this advantage to make more plat off rare items.. buys more accounts as population drops from people not willing to put up with the end game environment.


in short.. TMO likes the raid scene the way it is.. because its a ripe harvest of accounts that people abandon when they reach endgame.


imo eq (PVE blue server) is about community because the raid content is not end all be all of online gaming and TMO has shown it has little interest in building up a strong community of gamers.

[Tiggles]

Competition and challenge have a different interpretation to people


For me, the challenge of a game should be the content itself.. not some artificial construct beyond the game. (ie who can have the most accounts parked strategically through out the game world) which is inherently anti-competitive.


when the game comes down to who has the most accounts.. the guild with the most plat to purchase accounts gains an advantage.. then uses this advantage to make more plat off rare items.. buys more accounts as population drops from people not willing to put up with the end game environment.


in short.. TMO likes the raid scene the way it is.. because its a ripe harvest of accounts that people abandon when they reach endgame.


imo eq (PVE blue server) is about community because the raid content is not end all be all of online gaming and TMO has shown it has little interest in building up a strong community of gamers.

what about the time we gave the server free dragons?

[MooseTX82]

You have to count the TMO alt guild Enraptured to.

Im pretty sure you have no idea about my guild. We are not an alt guild of anybody. So really if you dont know anything about it why talk shit?

[Flunklesnarkin]

what about the time we gave the server free dragons?

that wasn't done for the community.. that was done for amusement.


let me give you an example of charity done for amusement.. not for benefiting a community as a whole..


I got some shore leave in the phillipines and me and a few buddies went out on the town.

while we were out, my friend took out a dollar and he gave it to a 6 year old (well young kid at least, which was a lot of money to him. I was about to hop in a taxi thinking my friend was a nice guy when he said "wait a moment watch this".

the kid was about halfway down the block when he got jumped by a gang of kids for the dollar and the whole time my "friend" cracking up with laughter.


now would that be considered charity or for the benefit of the child when it was just for amusement?


now granted the example isn't as extreme here but I'm trying to paint a clear picture for you of how your perceived community relations really isn't.

[porigromus]

I hope the developers of the server go with a method that feels like part of the game not random tokens handed out like ticket to a loot pinata! If they did I guess that is okay but I would rather see something along the lines the a post I created previously:

- Different method to engaging raid bosses to prevent monopolizing

* A random relic for each raid boss will be on the loot tables of ALL mobs the same level or a higher level of the raid mob with a very low drop rate (determined by developers). Once found, it will have a timer before it poofs of 12 hrs so they can't be collected up, and with one use on a raid boss to remove his enraged state so they can't be reused. Without item, raid mob will be unbeatable due to enraged state. They will also be able to be sold within the 12hr period. This gives the non-raider a chance at some loot/coin if they would like to sell their item within the 12hr period to a raid guild.

This means, raid guilds will have to play to have a chance at raid targets to obtain items to remove enraged states. The more you play, the more relics you get, the more raid mobs you get. Would be nice to get the drop rate down to a science of one for each raid boss being found every 1-2 weeks.

[Versus]

- Different method to engaging raid bosses to prevent monopolizing

* A random relic for each raid boss will be on the loot tables of ALL mobs the same level or a higher level of the raid mob with a very low drop rate (determined by developers). Once found, it will have a timer before it poofs of 12 hrs so they can't be collected up, and with one use on a raid boss to remove his enraged state so they can't be reused. Without item, raid mob will be unbeatable due to enraged state. They will also be able to be sold within the 12hr period. This gives the non-raider a chance at some loot/coin if they would like to sell their item within the 12hr period to a raid guild.

This means, raid guilds will have to play to have a chance at raid targets to obtain items to remove enraged states. The more you play, the more relics you get, the more raid mobs you get. Would be nice to get the drop rate down to a science of one for each raid boss being found every 1-2 weeks.

This, sir, is not Everquest.

[Bruman]

Im pretty sure you have no idea about my guild. We are not an alt guild of anybody. So really if you dont know anything about it why talk shit?

From Amelinda to Alarti in a PM, posted publicly (emphasis mine):


(snip some stuff)

Zeelot's attempt to circumvent the raid suspension by having people join Enraptured.....

and speaking of that crap....what the fuck man.... That's like him giving me the middle finger and I do not like it at all! That is blatant disregard for the rules. The PEOPLE in the guild are raid suspended...not the tag. If the dodgers get suspended for being shady...their team can't suddenly don Brave's uniforms and go play baseball as the Braves for the duration of their suspension. the PLAYERS are suspended. This is the same. (And don't tell me that people are joining enraptured of their own accord. I know all about Zeelot's post on your board saying that people could go over and raid with enraptured for 2 weeks and get DKP with them but would only take certain loot. I know about zeelot co-leading enraptured with toleez, his alt)

(snip the rest)

Even beyond that, everyone noticed when Darkdeath, brother of Zeelot, co-founder of TMO, was tagged Enraptured. The brother and co-founder stuff is just heresay from my end, but his tag switch wasn't.

[Autotune]

Ask the other guilds, and ask the GMs who have had to deal with zero raid drama...

funny, b/c with the exception of 2 incidents, I've heard from 2 GMs that it has been really quite chill the past 3months or so.

[Danyelle]

Oh, and if you do the FTE shout thing, re-define FTE as "the first guild to do X amount of damage to the mob" and check for that. That'll make kiting mobs a thing of the past as well as GM intervention after the fact to determine who had FTE and potentially having to re-distribute loot. Then you can't just put AFK people there to get on the hate list first... you actually have to engage the mob with a KS group and with enough of a raid force where you plan to win. The FTE shout will let the opposing guild know they can pull their forces out and let the FTE guild try their luck with whatever they engaged with.

sub EVENT_SPAWN{
quest::setnexthpevent(95); ##Sets NPC to trigger shout at 95 percent hp##
}

sub HP_EVENT{
if($hpevent == 95){
quest::shout("$name of $uguild_id has officially engaged."); ##shouts the attacker's name with his or her guild id for player identification and gm intervention##
}
}

There's better ways to set this up. I made it in 5 seconds. But you get the point.

[Tasslehofp99]

You need to realize that you have to give them the opportunity though. People got to see encounters that they never would have if TMO had not got banned.

It was healthy for the server and let people get a taste of these encounters. The server is bleeding people and things need to be done to save it.

People may not have formed over the past two weeks but with a rotation, every 3-4 of all raid mobs would be open and it would be the light at the end of the tunnel they would need to get people motivated to put in the work.

You cant just kill everything within minutes of it spawning then complain that people dont want to "put in the work" by losing over and over for months. Killing dragons is easy, training other guilds and poop socking is the work people dont want to put in.

Yup, this.


It was only 2 weeks to attempt mobs that most of the more casual guilds have never even gotten a chance to kill. I know my guild got 2 dracos and a noble dojorn, both of which were mobs we know we're capable of killing but never see up due to the fact they spawn at like 6 AM or are just dead within seconds of spawning.

[Autotune]

If a player made rotation is ever put in place, I will come back and reunite all the badasses from IB+TMO+DA+Whoever else and we will destroy your rainbows and unicorns.

So do yourself a favor, stop wishing upon stars and all that fairy dust.

[Tanthallas]

If a player made rotation is ever put in place, I will come back and reunite all the badasses from TMO+TMO+TMO

[Ravager]

If a player made rotation is ever put in place, I will come back and reunite all the badasses from IB+TMO+DA+Whoever else and we will destroy your rainbows and unicorns.

So do yourself a favor, stop wishing upon stars and all that fairy dust.

You trying to be the grinch who stole EQ? It seems kinda petty and mean to go through so much trouble to ruin everyone else's good time.

[somnia]

hey children, sandbox looks poopy as usual.

[Autotune]

You trying to be the grinch who stole EQ? It seems kinda petty and mean to go through so much trouble to ruin everyone else's good time.

I'd quit my job to make you cry.

[formallydickman]

I'd quit my job to make you cry.

I know troll, etc., but seriously that is one shitty job you must have.

[Danyelle]

If a player made rotation is ever put in place, I will come back and reunite all the badasses from IB+TMO+DA+Whoever else and we will destroy your rainbows and unicorns.

So do yourself a favor, stop wishing upon stars and all that fairy dust.

Leave my rainbows and unicorns just the way they are thank you very much! :P

[Ravager]

I'd quit my job to make you cry.

I just might if I gave you any thought.

[tekniq]

so much hate...
everquest...is just a game! you log, you buff, you kill..it's simple! but sometimes, it's more than that. much more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6_1Hc-EW10

[formallydickman]

so much hate...
everquest...is just a game! you log, you buff, you kill..it's simple! but sometimes, it's more than that. much more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6_1Hc-EW10

Don't sweat the tekniq.

[falkun]

I'm a few pages late to the response, but funkle's Philippines example is dead on.

[Alarti0001]

that wasn't done for the community.. that was done for amusement.


let me give you an example of charity done for amusement.. not for benefiting a community as a whole..


I got some shore leave in the phillipines and me and a few buddies went out on the town.

while we were out, my friend took out a dollar and he gave it to a 6 year old (well young kid at least, which was a lot of money to him. I was about to hop in a taxi thinking my friend was a nice guy when he said "wait a moment watch this".

the kid was about halfway down the block when he got jumped by a gang of kids for the dollar and the whole time my "friend" cracking up with laughter.


now would that be considered charity or for the benefit of the child when it was just for amusement?


now granted the example isn't as extreme here but I'm trying to paint a clear picture for you of how your perceived community relations really isn't.

so your friend has nefarious intentions, we didn't.
You can say we did it for your perceived reasons but you are wrong.
Sorry you have such a shitty view :)

[formallydickman]

You can say we did it for your perceived reasons but actually, no one can be sure of another's intentions.

[Flunklesnarkin]

yes it is my perception that TMO, or at least some members of it promoted their charity for their amusement.


I can provide you a few examples of why I think you have little regard for the community.. even from your same endangered species thread too ;p

We fought dirty and nasty, to win. People ragequitting over it is an entirely different thing that I feel no guilt about.

no concern that people are leaving the server .. check

we dont need a reputations we are uncontested top dogs and have a flood of apps.

unconcerned about what the community thinks.. check


I don't know what they are going to do to fix the raid scene here but I honestly expect them to take no action at all to fix the underlying problems of people utilizing multiple accounts to lock down the game.

Look at all the resistance nilbog is giving to the FTE solution which would at least allow potential competition without GM involvement on every contested kill.

[Alarti0001]

yes it is my perception that TMO, or at least some members of it promoted their charity for their amusement.


I can provide you a few examples of why I think you have little regard for the community.. even from your same endangered species thread too ;p



no concern that people are leaving the server .. check



unconcerned about what the community thinks.. check


I don't know what they are going to do to fix the raid scene here but I honestly expect them to take no action at all to fix the underlying problems of people utilizing multiple accounts to lock down the game.

Look at all the resistance nilbog is giving to the FTE solution which would at least allow potential competition without GM involvement on every contested kill.


Derp derp....anyone can pull quotes out of context.....look at my signature for instance. However, out of context snippets are not good evidence, unless you are employed by fox news.

[Relapse1]

Alarti why does 90% of your posts always have the word evidence in it?

[Autotune]

I am in TMO. I don't care about anyone on the server, nor do I can about what people think about me.

This can be applied to my entire guild. I enforce my way of thinking on all of them and expect people to project my values on my fellow guildmates.

P99 is no place for people with self expression or individual thought. One guild tag, one thought for all.

[formallydickman]

P99 is no place for people with self expression or individual thought. One guild tag, one thought for all.

You have fucking lost your mind.

[Nietche]

Ask the other guilds, and ask the GMs who have had to deal with zero raid drama... the TMO raid suspension was a glimpse of how the raiding scene on this server *could* be.

You're the only guild on the server who can kill top end stuff right now due to raid suspension. If the TMO ban were magically extended 5.5 more months, BDA would be just as hated by the same people who apparently hate TMO for the same reasons.

Every other guild is willing to share and work together and rotate even high priority targets like Trak and VS. We're /randoming on stuff in VP between three different guilds, for crying out loud.

Really? IB, VD, and BDA; you're actually going to count these three guilds as 3 separate guilds? Let's not forget The Black Hand (hello Bische, Nightfall, etc.). This relationship between IB/VD and BDA is reminiscent of the IB/VD one prior to when IB left the server except now I'm not sure which guild is prostituting itself to which guild.

Again, nilbog is right... we all have the power to change it. If TMO wants to treat the rest of us this way, then boycott them. Guildleaders... mandate from your guilds a strict refusal to group with them, and their alts, and all the people they have tucked away in Enraptured all sneaky-like. Stop talking to them. Stop buffing them. Stop buying and selling from/to them. Just stop interacting with them all together. When their membership no longer finds it fun to log in for their trinkets and then log out because no one else on the server wants to have anything to do with them, maybe they'll put the appropriate pressure on their leadership, if they're not already doing so in response to the poor-decision making that led to their two week raid-suspension to begin with.

This is all one-sided propaganda. Only the truly ingenuous believes that there can ever be a top end guild—by its true definition—who will be loved by all. TMO is very good to this server, and I believed that long before I ever applied to TMO.

By the way, Iddy, who is tagged Enraptured, is accessed by BDA's Shinko. Apparently, TMO isn't the only guild who tags their alts in other guilds like Enraptured. Who knew.

[Sadad]

You're the only guild on the server who can kill top end stuff right now due to raid suspension. If the TMO ban were magically extended 5.5 more months, BDA would be just as hated by the same people who apparently hate TMO for the same reasons.



Really? IB, VD, and BDA; you're actually going to count these three guilds as 3 separate guilds? Let's not forget The Black Hand (hello Bische, Nightfall, etc.). This relationship between IB/VD and BDA is reminiscent of the IB/VD one prior to when IB left the server except now I'm not sure which guild is prostituting itself to which guild.



This is all one-sided propaganda. Only the truly ingenuous believes that there can ever be a top end guild—by its true definition—who will be loved by all. TMO is very good to this server, and I believed that long before I ever applied to TMO.

By the way, Iddy, who is tagged Enraptured, is accessed by BDA's Shinko. Apparently, TMO isn't the only guild who tags their alts in other guilds like Enraptured. Who knew.

Still willfully ignorant, after all these years.

[Shiftin]

Really? IB, VD, and BDA; you're actually going to count these three guilds as 3 separate guilds? Let's not forget The Black Hand (hello Bische, Nightfall, etc.). This relationship between IB/VD and BDA is reminiscent of the IB/VD one prior to when IB left the server except now I'm not sure which guild is prostituting itself to which guild.


We can't just be having fun killing dragons together? I've been on for every one of these open VP things - they've been a blast and everyone has been happy for whoever got the loot that's gone out all completely by /random.

take off your asshole hat and realize that it's a game.

[radditsu]

I have pretty much seen these two weeks as fun for all guilds who wanted to participate.

When was the last time you have seen an open naggy raid?Poopsocked by alts. OR a vox? Same
The only singular guild who has any complaints about "BDA 1 guild on server" is the vocal minority of some sad people who most of them do not even play, and should not be wearing a tag of a "raiding guild". Players in raiding guilds play.


Servers been fun.

I'm prepping on being trained in sky, or leapfrogged, or any other thing they can think of to make BDA miserable. I'm planning on having absolutely no fun raiding for a good long while. But like batman, I can take it.

[Relapse1]

the game is way more enjoyable when you can just raid with your guildmates and have fun without having to worry about fte or whose bringing the next train

[radditsu]

the game is way more enjoyable when you can just raid with your guildmates and have fun without having to worry about fte or whose bringing the next train

<3

[Zereh]

Look at all the resistance nilbog is giving to the FTE solution which would at least allow potential competition without GM involvement on every contested kill.

Because it's not a fix, it's a gimmick. And it belongs on a Classic EQ server just about as much as instances or Beastlords do.

[radditsu]

On live we had contested kills that happened all the time, for non rotation stuff. Guides decided who got what. The original reason that the variance was put in to change this from happening. Now there are new and bigger problems. Non classic solution causes something non classic to fix the non classic problem due to not having the infrastructure and manpower to do it as classic. /Xibit off

Only solution is to either go back to fully classic (with repops, cause they are classic). Either make it the wild wild west, or try some more non classic fixes.


Yay

[Atmas]

the game is way more enjoyable when you can just raid with your guildmates and have fun without having to worry about fte or whose bringing the next train


<3

Rad are you serious? If you think things like poopsocking and one guild killing all raid targets is evil and you are giving <3 to the guy who made that statement, then wow.. just wow... I'm not even sure who is playing who now.

To all the people who got loot I sincerely say grats. I hope in the future you will get a fair shot at all the loot off mobs you take part in downing and not just the items some other guild says you can have.

[radditsu]

Rad are you serious? If you think things like poopsocking and one guild killing all raid targets is evil and you are giving <3 to the guy who made that statement, then wow.. just wow... I'm not even sure who is playing who now.

To all the people who got loot I sincerely say grats. I hope in the future you will get a fair shot at all the loot off mobs you take part in downing and not just the items some other guild says you can have.


The game is way more enjoyable when you can just raid with your guild and dont have to worry about FTE, rule lawyering and have fun. He may have been saying it with sarcasm. But i say it with truth.

[Relapse1]

nope no sarcasm here... i truly mean it

[Joroz]

You're the only guild on the server who can kill top end stuff right now due to raid suspension. If the TMO ban were magically extended 5.5 more months, BDA would be just as hated by the same people who apparently hate TMO for the same reasons.



Really? IB, VD, and BDA; you're actually going to count these three guilds as 3 separate guilds? Let's not forget The Black Hand (hello Bische, Nightfall, etc.). This relationship between IB/VD and BDA is reminiscent of the IB/VD one prior to when IB left the server except now I'm not sure which guild is prostituting itself to which guild.



This is all one-sided propaganda. Only the truly ingenuous believes that there can ever be a top end guild—by its true definition—who will be loved by all. TMO is very good to this server, and I believed that long before I ever applied to TMO.

By the way, Iddy, who is tagged Enraptured, is accessed by BDA's Shinko. Apparently, TMO isn't the only guild who tags their alts in other guilds like Enraptured. Who knew.

Not sure why you would even chime in and start throwing around tags like you were in the middle of it the whole time... you are a new member with them and did absolutely none of the heavy lifting to make that guild what it is today. shut your mouth and do something more than clicking on an apply button.

[MooseTX82]

There we go again with Enraptured talk where it does not belong.

[finalgrunt]

So 90% of the server didnt realize they're playing EQ, which has no instances. You're trying to make a rotation, which is like instances in WOW, but wake up guys, this is NOT WOW.

YOU'RE PLAYING EVERQUEST, YOU WANT LOOTS? FIGHT FOR IT

Some EQ live servers had rotations, which are not instances. If you wipe in an instance, you don't get to see competition taking over the kill. Quite a huge difference.

So, what was your point again?

[Danyelle]

So 90% of humans didnt realize they're humans, which don't breathe water. You're breathing air, which is like breathing water, but wake up guys, YOU'RE NOT FISH.

^^ Is your comparison, modified to show how it makes no sense. Explain to me...how is a rotation anything like an instance? Because on one else is in the zone? Kinda like how breathing air is exactly like breathing water because both contain oxygen? By that logic, soloing in an unpopulated zone is also instancing.

QUICK GUYS WE NEED AT LEAST ONE PERSON IN EVERY ZONE NOW. DON'T WANT THAT DEVILISH POST-LUCLIN STUFF IN MY EQZ.

[falkun]

You're the only guild on the server who can kill top end stuff right now due to raid suspension. If the TMO ban were magically extended 5.5 more months, BDA would be just as hated by the same people who apparently hate TMO for the same reasons.
From day 1 of your guild's suspension, BDA has been open about competition, agreement, and cooperation within the raid scene. If your suspension was magically upheld for another 5.5 months, I'm sure BDA would work with the other guilds to set up opportunities for any raid guild to, at minimum attempt a mob, and probably even split mobs equally, from Vox/Naggy all the way up to Trak. For instance, with only two weeks of free Traks, BDA has allowed all other forces 2-hour windows on alternating Traks, after which we host an open raid. If Divinity had downed Trak, do you not think Divinity would have pushed for more access to Trak? Do you think Sanluen would have denied them that opportunity? At one point, San was your guild leader, and I hope a friend as well. Has your opinion of him become that tainted that quickly?
Really? IB, VD, and BDA; you're actually going to count these three guilds as 3 separate guilds? Let's not forget The Black Hand (hello Bische, Nightfall, etc.). This relationship between IB/VD and BDA is reminiscent of the IB/VD one prior to when IB left the server except now I'm not sure which guild is prostituting itself to which guild.

Neitche, its called a guild merge and if you want to know more about how those work, speak with the TMO/DA/Fusion (did you keep any of those guys?) members within your new home, I'm sure they know how mergers work.

Also, you have no idea how the IB/VD relationship was, you were in neither guild, nor the competition TMO at the time. The only knowledge you have of cutthroat raiding and the guild relationships involved are the stories you hear from your elders in your current guild.

Finally, your elders in TMO whined for a long time that IB/VD was a singular guild and should act like one, merge, and compete instead of wanting two raid slots. Now BDA does not want the cutthroat competition IB/VD offered, but it is a single raid guild, as you asked. Neitche, your elders asked for something, they got it, and as an underling sucking off the nipple of their hard work, you need to appreciate the work that everyone actually involved has put into this raid scene. If prostitution exists anywhere in this raid scene, its the new members who have flocked to TMO since they lost competition. Even Stealin would agree with me on this. Its easy to be on top when you don't have to work for it, right Neitche?
This is all one-sided propaganda. Only the truly ingenuous believes that there can ever be a top end guild—by its true definition—who will be loved by all. TMO is very good to this server, and I believed that long before I ever applied to TMO.
I will concede that the top guild usually receives the most flak. However, I offer EQmac as an example of a low-pop server where top raid guilds cooperate instead of compete. Yes, a hierarchy of guilds exist, but that doesn't mean they have to look down upon "lesser" guilds with disdain. The top guild is a positive motivating force, and that filters down through the server's population. Leaders, be they guilds or persons, can lead in multiple styles, suppression is not the only option.

EDIT: Ingenious - (of a person) Clever, original, and inventive. (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define+ingenious)

[Autotune]

the game is way more enjoyable when you can just raid with your guildmates and have fun without having to worry about fte or whose bringing the next train

this is lies.

Also, since when does rotations = competing. You guys are all on drugs and not the good ones.

[falkun]

Also, since when does rotations = competing. You guys are all on drugs and not the good ones.
BDA does not believe in any way that we own rights to any raid mobs, but we are aware that we have a larger active raid force right now than most. We also want to see a new leaf turned for P99. As such, we are making the following decisions open and public. While we hope and expect that other guilds will be competing with us for all raid targets, we want to ensure that the raid content is spread across the server.

The following raid targets will be left alone by BDA indefinitely:

Nagafen
Vox
Dracoliche (standalone spawns)
Alternate Maestros (2nd, 4th, etc)
Noble Dojorn
Talendor
Second Faydedar
Second Severilous

The following raid targets will be left up for at least two hours after spawning for any other guilds to attempt. After that BDA will host an open joint raid with any guilds that wish to attend. The loot will be rolled on by all present raiders who can use the gear that dropps:

Second Trakanon (and Fourth pending spawn) (excluding teeth and guts)
Second Venril Sathir (Excluding Dru/Rng/Wiz epic items)
Second Innorruuk
Second Gorenaire

Again, BDA makes no claims of possession over any other raid target. We just hope that in the future more cooperation can be seen across the entire spectrum of guilds on Project 1999.

See you in game!
Sanluen's post states that we welcome competition for all raid targets, then outlines BDA's target priority and our time-line for mobilization (immediate > after 2 hours > never). This was neither cutthroat competition, nor was it a rotation. It was BDA stating its raiding goals and opening the door to communication with other guilds.

[finalgrunt]

this is lies.

Also, since when does rotations = competing. You guys are all on drugs and not the good ones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY02b1Yc8tM&feature=relmfu

Archery competition. They seem to take turns at shooting a target. They just try to do it better than the other competitors.

I guess you'd need to watch other stuff than Hunger Games to know what the world can offer.

[Autotune]

Sanluen's post states that we welcome competition for all raid targets, then outlines BDA's target priority and our time-line for mobilization (immediate > after 2 hours > never). This was neither cutthroat competition, nor was it a rotation. It was BDA stating its raiding goals and opening the door to communication with other guilds.

Some EQ live servers had rotations, which are not instances. If you wipe in an instance, you don't get to see competition taking over the kill. Quite a huge difference.

So, what was your point again?

I didn't read whatever you posted earlier, so wasn't replying to that. Was replying to ^

[finalgrunt]

I didn't read whatever you posted earlier, so wasn't replying to that. Was replying to ^

You might want to answer my following post then.

[Autotune]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY02b1Yc8tM&feature=relmfu

Archery competition. They seem to take turns at shooting a target. They just try to do it better than the other competitors.

I guess you'd need to watch other stuff than Hunger Games to know what the world can offer.

So you're more of a time attack person.

I'm more of a 50 people on the track racing at once person.

[Danyelle]

A rotation is like an instance in the way that everyone can try and kill the mob, when they want, like instances. At the end, everyone has the same gear, there's no prestige at all.

EQ has competition with world bosses, not instances. You wanna raid something, you'll have to fight for it in terms of mobilization, fast preparation, strong strategies and play nice enough to kill the mob before your opponents. That's what make the game exciting and different from the shitty games released these past years.

Rotations never existed in EQ live during Kunark era, wake up man.

STFU with your rotations, if you don't like this part of the game, leave it.

I don't believe you even know what a rotation is, as is evident by your comparison to something that is pretty much completely unrelated.

An instance permits any person or group or guild to access a zone without competition on a whim without negotiation, with no threat of interference, no end to the instance in sight, and permanent uncontested access to a mob. A rotation is an agreement two or more parties make that enables them to trade access to mobs in static and open zones without fear of engagement by the other party in exchange for another mob they themselves had locked down, or any other negotiation that enables two or more guilds to "rotate" in and out of access to a mob that normally is locked down by another guild. It cannot be done on a whim (as opposed to instancing where you just get up and do it at your own discretion), it must be agreed upon by all party members (as opposed to instancing where you don't have to even speak to other guilds as it has nothing to do with them and requires no interaction and neither party can interfere with the other), it is not permanent as it only carries on until one or both parties are satisfied with the outcome and the original goal is reached and competition resumes (as opposed to instancing where once it's there you have access to it any time from now until the world comes to an end), it can be terminated at any time by one or more parties in the rotation by walking up to the mob despite the rotation and killing it anyway (as opposed to instancing where there is no such possibility to enter another person, group, or guilds' instance to kill their mobs), and if you wipe the threat of the mob being stolen is constantly hanging over you (as opposed to instancing where if you wipe the only threat is the expedition timer expiring).

If you're going to argue on the internet, may wanna know exactly what you're arguing about. And yes, rotations did exist during Classic. But guilds had to agree on them to set them in motion. It wasn't a Verant/Sony enforced feature. Just because you were in a guild, on one individual server out of many, that never agreed to a rotation (if indeed you were guilded at all) doesn't mean they didn't exist. But of course, it's so easy to make a claim based on smudged, or even purposefully falsified, memories on something that may or may not have happened 13 years ago where little to no records still exist to prove that it happened one way or another.

[Versus]

u bda guyz r so friendly.

[Susanbanthony]

The BDA/IB/Divinity/Black Hand/Whoever can come PUG VP raids have been the most classic raiding experience I've had since I've joined P99 (though old school fear/hate clears come close). And, oddly enough, the most fun. Believe it or not, it's been fun without another group of players in VP "competing" with us. Know why? We're competing against the dragons. We sometimes fail, we sometimes succeed, but we are always learning. That is what Everquest is about. Not the bullshit this server was turned into long ago with poopsocking, FTE, rules lawyering, etc (and that TMO continues to perpetuate).

Competition can exist between players and is healthy, but why can't the "competition" stop at "Shit, they've beaten us to the zone with a capable raid force and are clearly moving toward the target. I hope they wipe, so we can have a shot. If not, cong them." Stop being assholes.

[Autotune]

The BDA/IB/Divinity/Black Hand/Whoever can come PUG VP raids have been the most classic raiding experience I've had since I've joined P99 (though old school fear/hate clears come close). And, oddly enough, the most fun. Believe it or not, it's been fun without another group of players in VP "competing" with us. Know why? We're competing against the dragons. We sometimes fail, we sometimes succeed, but we are always learning. That is what Everquest is about. Not the bullshit this server was turned into long ago with poopsocking, FTE, rules lawyering, etc (and that TMO continues to perpetuate).

Competition can exist between players and is healthy, but why can't the "competition" stop at "Shit, they've beaten us to the zone with a capable raid force and are clearly moving toward the target. I hope they wipe, so we can have a shot. If not, cong them." Stop being assholes.

"we showed up and deserve our trophy" - I love that mentality.

[Austrianna]

Rotations never existed in EQ live during Kunark era, wake up man.


Guess it depends what server you played on. Mine had rotations into Velious until one guild decided they could kill it all.

[Susanbanthony]

"we showed up and deserve our trophy" - I love that mentality.

Yep. We showed up, stood there and the dragon said, "Screw it, here's your loot." We didn't have to do a thing.

[Autotune]

Yep. We showed up, stood there and the dragon said, "Screw it, here's your loot." We didn't have to do a thing.

pretty much.

[radditsu]

I guess the minimal raid force with minimal amount of key classes that is essentially a glorified pickup raid who have not raided together before killing raid mobs in a zone that no longer gives the ability to hide from significant area of effect damage is "screw it , here's your loot".

I guess we have to be trained by another guild for it to count as a challenge. In that case TMO has not had a challenge in months. Why don't you go up to vp after the ban and have you guys train each other all day.

[Alarti0001]

The BDA/IB/Divinity/Black Hand/Whoever can come PUG VP raids have been the most classic raiding experience I've had since I've joined P99 (though old school fear/hate clears come close). And, oddly enough, the most fun. Believe it or not, it's been fun without another group of players in VP "competing" with us. Know why? We're competing against the dragons. We sometimes fail, we sometimes succeed, but we are always learning. That is what Everquest is about. Not the bullshit this server was turned into long ago with poopsocking, FTE, rules lawyering, etc (and that TMO continues to perpetuate).

Competition can exist between players and is healthy, but why can't the "competition" stop at "Shit, they've beaten us to the zone with a capable raid force and are clearly moving toward the target. I hope they wipe, so we can have a shot. If not, cong them." Stop being assholes.

That seems a bit bent on opinion...who is to say what is a capable raid force, and TMO would always show up with a more capable raid force.

[Autotune]

I guess the minimal raid force with minimal amount of key classes that is essentially a glorified pickup raid who have not raided together before killing raid mobs in a zone that no longer gives the ability to hide from significant area of effect damage is "screw it , here's your loot".

I guess we have to be trained by another guild for it to count as a challenge. In that case TMO has not had a challenge in months. Why don't you go up to vp after the ban and have you guys train each other all day.

It's Everquest, everything hands you loot.

If you're getting trained by another guild on purpose and then kill it. I'd be impressed. Other than that, might as well be killing orc 1.

[karsten]

to be fair, i think we've all died more at orc1 than in VP in our lives

[apio]

everytime i read a comment from active TMO people in this thread, it reminds me of how frustrating and stupid it was to be on top of the server. Cockblocking people to feel better about yourself. I did it all a year ago, and now that I have some distance to it all I can see what a sad thing it truely is.

What you (and by "you" i mean the people on this server that are not in TMO) need to realize is the mentality of these people. They feel they "deserve" every dragon and raid mob in the game, because they PUT IN THE TIME AND EFFORT. Therefore, if you can not compete with 24 hour per day tracking, and being able to mobilize 40 people within 15 minutes, YOU CAN GO F*** urself. You dont deserve ANYTHING. If it was up to them, they would still be cockblocking every single raid mob in the game because they CAN.

You dont deserve it. Thats the bottom line.

Now I moved to AK. I didnt rejoin TR because tbh I didnt like my time there very much. It didnt remind me at all of how classic everquest used to be. There was always competition, but it was NEVER like it is here. On P99 theres a unique metagame, that is only reinforced by the horribly retarded forum community. Thank god some people started cleaning up a bit. I hope it is not too late.

The earliest I saw people starting to cockblock to slow down others progression was after PoP launch, because you NEEDED to keep the other guilds out of the EPs so you could progress on to the Plane of Time, through flagging - It was a flagging bottleneck so you needed to slow the progression of other guilds or they would catch up

. Anhow, TR fits in perfectly in the new server, they get along with everyone - Despite some TMO forum trolls going on a riot on the AK forums to try and get IB/TR kicked from the server, they raid there, silently, without any drama, sharing the content with numerous other guilds. Even Lron has given them a break.

Back to topic: IMO just dont compete with TMO. By the time you beat them you will hate yourself for what you have become, it is simply not worth it. Let them have their little E-Win, they all sacrifice so much for it. And most of all don´t let them troll you by believing that you dont deserve "their targets". I am sure theres plenty of old school TMO around that would agree that what they used to be was way more important and fun than what they are now.

If youre casual and want to see some content, get a mac mini and join us here on Al Kabor. It is truly a classic Everquest Community with awesome content and 2 guilds that are dedicated to do real progression. TR and vintage are both still progression locked at velious, AND theres also Luclin and PoP for all those who didnt actually hate it. Both of the expansions had a lot to offer, and you will be able to play the game you like without classic nazis telling you how you should and shouldnt play this game ;)

See you there,
Iance

[radditsu]

It's Everquest, everything hands you loot.

If you're getting trained by another guild on purpose and then kill it. I'd be impressed. Other than that, might as well be killing orc 1.

Nope, I'll just frap's it and you guys can enjoy another 2 weeks exping on alts. I follow proper codes of conduct and respect my fellow players (even you!). I, however, will not tolerate my day being ruined due to the effects of others. Racing and competition is fine as long as you do not otherwise destroy the experience of other players.

If it continues I wonder how long a "raiding guild" can go without "raiding" due to the effects of a few guys who do not understand that.

[Versus]

The BDA/IB/Divinity/Black Hand/Whoever can come PUG VP raids have been the most classic raiding experience I've had since I've joined P99 (though old school fear/hate clears come close). And, oddly enough, the most fun. Believe it or not, it's been fun without another group of players in VP "competing" with us. Know why? We're competing against the dragons. We sometimes fail, we sometimes succeed, but we are always learning. That is what Everquest is about. Not the bullshit this server was turned into long ago with poopsocking, FTE, rules lawyering, etc (and that TMO continues to perpetuate).


Good on you guys. I'm glad you had fun. Problem is, in two days, the amount of VP keyed people able to raid in VP is going to more than double. Once that happens, there's no room for PUG /randoming. There will be too many mouths to feed and not enough dragons, whereas now, there's a nice utopian amount of people able to raid there.

[Autotune]

YOU CAN GO F*** urself. You dont deserve ANYTHING.

You dont deserve it. Thats the bottom line.

IMO just dont compete with TMO it is simply not worth it. And most of all let them troll you. I am sure theres plenty of old school TMO around that agree.

If youre casual join us here on Al Kabor. It is a Everquest Community with content and 2 guilds that do progression. TR and vintage are both still progression locked at Luclin and hate it. classic nazis shouldnt play this game ;)

See you there,
Iance

[LizardNecro]

everytime i read a comment from active TMO people in this thread, it reminds me of how frustrating and stupid it was to be on top of the server. Cockblocking people to feel better about yourself. I did it all a year ago, and now that I have some distance to it all I can see what a sad thing it truely is.

What you (and by "you" i mean the people on this server that are not in TMO) need to realize is the mentality of these people. They feel they "deserve" every dragon and raid mob in the game, because they PUT IN THE TIME AND EFFORT. Therefore, if you can not compete with 24 hour per day tracking, and being able to mobilize 40 people within 15 minutes, YOU CAN GO F*** urself. You dont deserve ANYTHING. If it was up to them, they would still be cockblocking every single raid mob in the game because they CAN.

You dont deserve it. Thats the bottom line.

Now I moved to AK. I didnt rejoin TR because tbh I didnt like my time there very much. It didnt remind me at all of how classic everquest used to be. There was always competition, but it was NEVER like it is here. On P99 theres a unique metagame, that is only reinforced by the horribly retarded forum community. Thank god some people started cleaning up a bit. I hope it is not too late.

The earliest I saw people starting to cockblock to slow down others progression was after PoP launch, because you NEEDED to keep the other guilds out of the EPs so you could progress on to the Plane of Time, through flagging - It was a flagging bottleneck so you needed to slow the progression of other guilds or they would catch up

. Anhow, TR fits in perfectly in the new server, they get along with everyone - Despite some TMO forum trolls going on a riot on the AK forums to try and get IB/TR kicked from the server, they raid there, silently, without any drama, sharing the content with numerous other guilds. Even Lron has given them a break.

Back to topic: IMO just dont compete with TMO. By the time you beat them you will hate yourself for what you have become, it is simply not worth it. Let them have their little E-Win, they all sacrifice so much for it. And most of all don´t let them troll you by believing that you dont deserve "their targets". I am sure theres plenty of old school TMO around that would agree that what they used to be was way more important and fun than what they are now.

If youre casual and want to see some content, get a mac mini and join us here on Al Kabor. It is truly a classic Everquest Community with awesome content and 2 guilds that are dedicated to do real progression. TR and vintage are both still progression locked at velious, AND theres also Luclin and PoP for all those who didnt actually hate it. Both of the expansions had a lot to offer, and you will be able to play the game you like without classic nazis telling you how you should and shouldnt play this game ;)

See you there,
Iance

That was a very well written post Iance.

[apio]

damn, i couldve saved some serious time :D thanks for the TL DR

[radditsu]

everytime i read a comment from active TMO people in this thread, it reminds me of how frustrating and stupid it was to be on top of the server. Cockblocking people to feel better about yourself. I did it all a year ago, and now that I have some distance to it all I can see what a sad thing it truely is.

What you (and by "you" i mean the people on this server that are not in TMO) need to realize is the mentality of these people. They feel they "deserve" every dragon and raid mob in the game, because they PUT IN THE TIME AND EFFORT. Therefore, if you can not compete with 24 hour per day tracking, and being able to mobilize 40 people within 15 minutes, YOU CAN GO F*** urself. You dont deserve ANYTHING. If it was up to them, they would still be cockblocking every single raid mob in the game because they CAN.

You dont deserve it. Thats the bottom line.

Now I moved to AK. I didnt rejoin TR because tbh I didnt like my time there very much. It didnt remind me at all of how classic everquest used to be. There was always competition, but it was NEVER like it is here. On P99 theres a unique metagame, that is only reinforced by the horribly retarded forum community. Thank god some people started cleaning up a bit. I hope it is not too late.

The earliest I saw people starting to cockblock to slow down others progression was after PoP launch, because you NEEDED to keep the other guilds out of the EPs so you could progress on to the Plane of Time, through flagging - It was a flagging bottleneck so you needed to slow the progression of other guilds or they would catch up

. Anhow, TR fits in perfectly in the new server, they get along with everyone - Despite some TMO forum trolls going on a riot on the AK forums to try and get IB/TR kicked from the server, they raid there, silently, without any drama, sharing the content with numerous other guilds. Even Lron has given them a break.

Back to topic: IMO just dont compete with TMO. By the time you beat them you will hate yourself for what you have become, it is simply not worth it. Let them have their little E-Win, they all sacrifice so much for it. And most of all don´t let them troll you by believing that you dont deserve "their targets". I am sure theres plenty of old school TMO around that would agree that what they used to be was way more important and fun than what they are now.

If youre casual and want to see some content, get a mac mini and join us here on Al Kabor. It is truly a classic Everquest Community with awesome content and 2 guilds that are dedicated to do real progression. TR and vintage are both still progression locked at velious, AND theres also Luclin and PoP for all those who didnt actually hate it. Both of the expansions had a lot to offer, and you will be able to play the game you like without classic nazis telling you how you should and shouldnt play this game ;)

See you there,
Iance

TR/Vintage have room for a level 2 shaman? :)

[Autotune]

Nope, I'll just frap's it and you guys can enjoy another 2 weeks exping on alts. I follow proper codes of conduct and respect my fellow players (even you!). I, however, will not tolerate my day being ruined due to the effects of others. Racing and competition is fine as long as you do not otherwise destroy the experience of other players.

If it continues I wonder how long a "raiding guild" can go without "raiding" due to the effects of a few guys who do not understand that.

I've watched your guild mistakenly train your own guild and mine in hate before. I hope you do realize what is going to come around post TMO suspension. You are going to have to force your newbies to not make any mistakes. Otherwise, you and your guild will be on the wrong end of a fraps. Fair warning.

I've seen the same thing happen with VD's raid in Fear. A newbie member gets lost and runs to the wrong camp with mobs on them, training another raid.

Enjoy your big talk about how you follow the rules, because one mistake will end up giving you a break.

TMO as a guild has looked the other way on many things other guilds, including IB, took for granted. We passed on IB KSing and stealing pulls from us plenty before we started playing their game with them (draco pull steals ring a bell? Rogean giving us the loot and not giving IB CT loot). So keep thinking you've done nothing wrong and your whistle is clean, keep your worry free attitude with it.

[radditsu]

I've watched your guild mistakenly train your own guild and mine in hate before. I hope you do realize what is going to come around post TMO suspension. You are going to have to force your newbies to not make any mistakes. Otherwise, you and your guild will be on the wrong end of a fraps. Fair warning.

I've seen the same thing happen with VD's raid in Fear. A newbie member gets lost and runs to the wrong camp with mobs on them, training another raid.

Enjoy your big talk about how you follow the rules, because one mistake will end up giving you a break.

TMO as a guild has looked the other way on many things other guilds, including IB, took for granted. We passed on IB KSing and stealing pulls from us plenty before we started playing their game with them (draco pull steals ring a bell? Rogean giving us the loot and not giving IB CT loot). So keep thinking you've done nothing wrong and your whistle is clean, keep your worry free attitude with it.

A) We are not IB. I am almost certain whatever IB are playing around are just trolling you guys and will be gone when you can come train us. EQ mac seems perfectly suited to what they are wanting to do and it would be foolish to reignite this toxic love hate thing you guys got going. The kevin federline /britney spears thing is just tiresome to hear about.
B) Its not big talk about following the rules. I follow the rules. I am vouching for myself. As thrilling as it would be to powerlevel some bard or necro and go to town on fools who cross me. I follow the rules.
C)Its called stand and die. I will be suggesting if you got a bunch of guilds in the zone and they get aggro, from lets say hate church, which is very easy now. They should stand and die. I am just a peon however, and do not have any control over how and why we raid. I am however, a very seasoned live veteran and voice my suggestions to our leadership as it comes up.

Let the great guild litigation begin!

[Susanbanthony]

Good on you guys. I'm glad you had fun. Problem is, in two days, the amount of VP keyed people able to raid in VP is going to more than double. Once that happens, there's no room for PUG /randoming. There will be too many mouths to feed and not enough dragons, whereas now, there's a nice utopian amount of people able to raid there.

Of course there is room for PUG/randoming, if the server playerbase agrees and adheres to it. It's been happening for the past two weeks outside of VP.

[radditsu]

Of course there is room for PUG/randoming, if the server playerbase agrees and adheres to it. It's been happening for the past two weeks outside of VP.

I hear big things about those naggy and vox raids.

[Alarti0001]

Of course there is room for PUG/randoming, if the server playerbase agrees and adheres to it. It's been happening for the past two weeks outside of VP.

You raid base has been missing 80 or so hard core raiders...

[Alarti0001]

I've watched your guild mistakenly train your own guild and mine in hate before. I hope you do realize what is going to come around post TMO suspension. You are going to have to force your newbies to not make any mistakes. Otherwise, you and your guild will be on the wrong end of a fraps. Fair warning.



Mainly this we have let you go many times on your mistakes we don't even run fraps anymore and if your guild plans to get content by rule lawyering. Then we will all be running our fraps also. Hope you enjoy your up and coming raid suspension next couple mistakes you make.

[touchtonedialing]

Mainly this we have let you go many times on your mistakes we don't even run fraps anymore and if your guild plans to get content by rule lawyering. Then we will all be running our fraps also. Hope you enjoy your up and coming raid suspension next couple mistakes you make.

You're such an angry person. I feel bad for you.

[JenJen]

eq is the most important thing outside work DUHHH

[radditsu]

Mainly this we have let you go many times on your mistakes we don't even run fraps anymore and if your guild plans to get content by rule lawyering. Then we will all be running our fraps also. Hope you enjoy your up and coming raid suspension next couple mistakes you make.

Like this was not going to happen anyway? I fully expect to have the book thrown at us from you guys. I knew this was going to come since day 1 of your suspension. Any way you can do it. Anything to cement your status. Anything to discredit anyone else.

The server as a whole has had fun. I hope they take this forward and realize when we get raid banned for an accidental train or something that warps due to bad pathing, we have some good will of the benefit of the doubt about our intentions.

My two weeks i may go outside and get a tan, go fishing, mow the yard. Doubt I will be on an eq forum being a disruptive element.

[Atmas]

Like this was not going to happen anyway? I fully expect to have the book thrown at us from you guys. I knew this was going to come since day 1 of your suspension. Any way you can do it. Anything to cement your status. Anything to discredit anyone else.


Double standards everywhere. Its fine when BDA petitions because they assume something happens but if TMO had a fraps of something it's rule lawyering.

TMO is too large a guild, even though most BDA and really just looking around will tell you BDA is larger.

The best probably is the argument your definition of fun is different from our definiton of fun so therefore you are wrong.

[Alarti0001]

Like this was not going to happen anyway? I fully expect to have the book thrown at us from you guys. I knew this was going to come since day 1 of your suspension. Any way you can do it. Anything to cement your status. Anything to discredit anyone else.

The server as a whole has had fun. I hope they take this forward and realize when we get raid banned for an accidental train or something that warps due to bad pathing, we have some good will of the benefit of the doubt about our intentions.

My two weeks i may go outside and get a tan, go fishing, mow the yard. Doubt I will be on an eq forum being a disruptive element.

You already are a disruptive element. ;)

Our status is cemented, we play the game how the rules dictate if the rules now require us to spend time frapsing and rule lawyering we will do that. These are the rules BDA has chosen, not tmo.

[Alarti0001]

You're such an angry person. I feel bad for you.

You are a hermaphrodite. It must me true i just posted it here!

[Slave]

You are a hermaphrodite. It must me true i just posted it here!

If TMO had any credibility whatsoever, you would not be a member for the inflammatory and brainless things you constantly and consistently post. You are either representative of TMO leadership or they have no power to rein you in, and either way it reflects extremely poorly on them and the rest of the guild. I am now ignoring you forever, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Autotune]

First time the guild I was in on live, entered sleepers tomb, we killed 2 of the warders with 11 people. 11 char raidforce.
Average attendance of this euro guild was 30 players, 35 on a good day in velious.
Yet we managed to compete with the best guild on the server that had an average attendance of 50-60, which is by the way, the best guild serverwide today.

What does this tell you? (Except that you need more skillz;D)
The more player, the more you have to gear up.
A raid force of 30 will be better equipped (MOST LIKELY) than a guild with raidforce of 60 people. Unless they are totally useless...

Too many loot whores joining the #1 top guild and too little balance = fucked up server with delusional players who are useless beyond recognition.
Just because you have VP loots which you were lucky enough to get with a 50 man raidforce, doesn't it mean you would ever have any "game-skills" worth mentioning.

I will still eat you for breakfast in a duel!:D

Sure...

[Joroz]

This thread boils down to... If you don't want to be suspended don't do stupid shit that will get you suspended. Stop blaming people from taking advantage during your absence.

[Nirgon]

I think he's got a point, its playing a game of who can provide the best story to the GMs to burn someone for a mistake.

Fraps away, this will certainly improve your raid scene.

[Ravager]

Maybe not a bad idea at all, the server can force a rotation on TMO this way, if everyone is getting each other raid banned.

[radditsu]

Double standards everywhere. Its fine when BDA petitions because they assume something happens but if TMO had a fraps of something it's rule lawyering.

TMO is too large a guild, even though most BDA and really just looking around will tell you BDA is larger.

The best probably is the argument your definition of fun is different from our definiton of fun so therefore you are wrong.

I am pretty sure ours was an act out of desperation. Necro leapfrog pulls(which fail but train us) and kiting a progression mob in sky are pretty blatant abuses of a guilds power and should at least be looked at. I do not know the intent behind the fraps we took in question. I hope it wasn't a "screw tmo" fraps and more of a "can something be done gms?" fraps.

I, however, would love to know what we do wrong. I never hear anything intentional in vent, however i am not at every single raid. Just about 90% of them. I was not around the drac you are trumpeting as BDA being jerks. Believe it or not.

What I am saying is that we are going to get hit with a suspension eventually due to our "noobness" and because we dared to question their methods in dealing with the "lesser" guilds. I just hope the players out there do not see it as a condemnation of BDA.

I really hope nobody has to rule lawyer anybody else anymore now that we have TMO's attention. I hope that an understanding can come between everybody. I do realize that in the short term BDA has to be on its guard, until something can be hammered out.

[radditsu]

Indeed it's so easy to say that there was rotation based on smudged, or even purposefully falsified, memories on something that may or may not have happened 13 years ago where little to no records still exist to prove that it happened one way or another...

You're stupid man. Rotations = Instances = no competition. If you don't wanna understand that, up to you.

The whole point is nobody really wants to compete with tmo being "THE premiere raiding guild on the server". They are. Good Job. You can do what you want with that. The IB/TMO war is over. A new kind of guild is number 2 and is a different animal completely. They are trying to do what they can from their perspective to keep a server from eating its own tail.

[finalgrunt]

Maybe not a bad idea at all, the server can force a rotation on TMO this way, if everyone is getting each other raid banned.

Isn't that the definition of a GM enforced rotation? Something they didn't want? And with current rules, having to tell which raid force is wrong must be stressful to them.

May as well enforce a tiered rotation from the start, with clear rules to allow players to police themselves, like this (example):

Tier 1

Rules/changes:
- Variance removed.
- Time from spawn to kill allowed: 2 hours.
- No wipe allowed: if failure, the next guild ready goes in.
- Re attempt delay for "free" attempts: 1 hour (after a wipe, if there is a competition) unless given a "clear to go before that delay" from the competing raid leaders as courtesy.

List:
- Maestro
- Nagafen
- Vox
- Ragefire
- Draco
- Fay

Tier 2

Rules/changes:
- Variance down to +/- 2 hours.
- Time from spawn to kill allowed: 3 hours.
- 1 wipe allowed.
- Re attempt delay for "free" attempts: 30 minutes (after a wipe, if there is a competition) unless given a "clear to go before that delay" from the competing raid leaders as courtesy.

- Inny
- CT
- Trak

Rest is open to "competition" as you know it, with a +/-3 hours variance. We may back to the 100+ people sitting on spawn point, but that's classic I guess. Until guilds work something out.

P.S: I may have missed some important targets, but the idea would be to not cockblock epic / key content. Alliances would be allowed for certain, but would be seen as a single entity and must be stated clearly on the boards. For example, if BDA and Divinity make an alliance for Trak, there won't be 1 slot for each reserved, but only 1 for both. But they may fight Maestro as seperate entities.

P.P.S: I'll leave the following parts to some other people to bring great ideas on the table about:
- Should there be a restriction to enter / maintain presence in a rotation for an entity
- How do you select the next guild to engage after a wipe, to avoid the FTE snipe.

[Nirgon]

Yeah GM enforced rotation cuz people wanna play eye of zomm referee at 5:45am

[Atmas]

(Forbidden content removed) I do not know the intent behind the fraps we took in question. I hope it wasn't a "screw tmo" fraps and more of a "can something be done gms?" fraps.

I, however, would love to know what we do wrong. I never hear anything intentional in vent, however i am not at every single raid. Just about 90% of them. I was not around the drac you are trumpeting as BDA being jerks. Believe it or not.

What I am saying is that we are going to get hit with a suspension eventually due to our "noobness" and because we dared to question their methods in dealing with the "lesser" guilds. I just hope the players out there do not see it as a condemnation of BDA.

I really hope nobody has to rule lawyer anybody else anymore now that we have TMO's attention. I hope that an understanding can come between everybody. I do realize that in the short term BDA has to be on its guard, until something can be hammered out.

The night with Draco another point that nobody mentioned was that after the minutes of kiting BDA was not the first to tag Draco out of the train. That issue was never really revisited and Draco probably would never have been mentioned in general if it wasn't for what happened afterwards.

All I'm saying is if things become a petition/fraps fest you won't have to go far when pointing the finger.

Once again you use terms like "lesser" guild. Which kind of befuddles me because BDA probably has more active members than TMO.

[radditsu]

Rotation would not even be needed with bi weekly pops and a shorter variation. People could compete and it be a competition.

Rotations would be great for certain mobs. OR an understanding to leave naggy/vox for open raids would be nice. But the central problem is the lack of spawns in a tighter timeframe so that raids could pick their targets and compete. It's currently a logout your main at the thing closest in window and play an alt league.

[Ravager]

Yeah GM enforced rotation cuz people wanna play eye of zomm referee at 5:45am

I think you misread the posts. This is what appears to be materializing if guilds are going to go tit-for-tat with frapsing and trying to get raid suspensions. The result will be rotations, albeit, two weeks at a time. Which, ironically, is what TMO is fighting tooth and nail.

[radditsu]

The night with Draco another point that nobody mentioned was that after the minutes of kiting BDA was not the first to tag Draco out of the train. That issue was never really revisited and Draco probably would never have been mentioned in general if it wasn't for what happened afterwards.

All I'm saying is if things become a petition/fraps fest you won't have to go far when pointing the finger.

Once again you use terms like "lesser" guild. Which kind of befuddles me because BDA probably has more active members than TMO.

Hence the reason why i said it in "quotes". It a scathing comment on what we perceive to our "greater" raid guild to think of our situation. I honestly think BDA is a great guild. It has many different elements that could appeal to many types of people.

Don't delay , Join BDA today!

[finalgrunt]

I think you misread the posts. This is what appears to be materializing if guilds are going to go tit-for-tat with frapsing and trying to get raid suspensions. The result will be rotations, albeit, two weeks at a time. Which, ironically, is what TMO is fighting tooth and nail.

Indeed. Also GM enforced doesn't mean the presence of them is needed, just for ruling any dispute (with raid weeks suspension, will teach guilds to behave). With clear rotation rules, a single video / log should be enough for GM ruling. The idea is to make them spend less time ruling the server, and more time working on bug fixes / Velious.

[radditsu]

Don't wanna compete? So what is this all about lol, you don't compete, you don't get loots... thats life

About 15 times i have said what I would like to see.

Bi weekly respawns with a shorter variance. That would give us all enough things to compete over. And honestly be a kick in the shins for our populace. We could compete over the amounts of stuff we kill. We could compete about mobilization and with chess games about the chase during patch day.. (NEWS FLASH: Tmo wins most mobs due to mobilization and dispersement of raid enabled alts in places to get an engage in a hurry)

I am not interested in competing with a another guild in a pecker growing contest about who is number 1. TMO from the start of kunark, from what i have heard, built itself up to be number 1. I have no doubt they worked hard for it, in their own way. I just want to revitalize the server when it comes to end game content. Ehh, think what you want about me.

[Schortt]

All guilds have members who occasionally mess up and unintentionally screw themselves or others as a result. It would be nice if there were enough good will among raiding guilds to let these occasions go without resorting to petitions. The way to create that good will is to do things like:
1. Admit you fucked up and apologize.
2. Offer to get out of the other guild's way until the next time around.
3. Publicly chastise/guildremove members who intentionally screw with other guilds.

The way to ensure that such good will never develops is to do things like:
1. Pretend like nothing happened or blame others for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
2. Kill the contested mob while the other guild involved is recovering from the mishap caused by your members.
3. Publicly endorse such activity as competition, obnoxiously celebrate mob kills gotten in this fashion, and ridicule guilds for not getting such kills.
4. Retaliate against any of this behavior with similar behavior.

I think it's pretty clear why so many guilds end up going the petition route: you can only go so long trying to extend good will when none is being extended back your way. I've personally been a part of two different guilds that have broken into the high end raid scene (Europa/Remedy->Darkwind->TR and VD) and I've seen the evolution each time from "well-meaning guild that just wants to raid according to the rules" to "tired of getting taken advantage of for always being willing to let little things go and firing off the occasional petition" to "lets just try to get them banned any time it might be possible /PETITION /PETITION /PETITION" or even "fuck them, if they're going to 'accidentally' do X to us and then go kill mobs let's 'accidentally' do X to them". It's ugly and it's a shame, but the only other option is to not be a serious raiding entity.

To be clear - I am not indicting TMO as being responsible for this any more than I am a lot of other guilds including IB, TR, VD, DA, Transcendence, and others. The raid scene on this server has a history of people competing with each other in bad faith, and it's incredibly hard to escape this situation, especially when so many of the same faces keep popping up under the other side's guildtag.

What the latest suspension has shown is that it is possible for good-faith raiding to happen on this server. However, the current circumstances include three unrealistic aspects:
1. There's no guild around that is committed to killing as many mobs as possible.
2. There's no guild around that is steeped in the bad-faith raiding tradition of P99.
3. There's just plain fewer people going after the same mobs.

While BDA and especially Divinity have a history of staying out of the worst of the raiding ugliness, and they seem to be more than happy to let others have a reasonable shot at mobs, a substantial minority of the active raiders on the server (TMO members and whichever IB folks stick around/come back) are not of this persuasion.

It's not realistic to expect TMO to do what BDA did - TMO is not a casual raiding guild and no one should expect a group of serious raiders willing to commit a lot of time to killing stuff to prefer gearing members of other guilds over their own members and alts. What would be nice though, is if some of the same old faces, whether in TMO, BDA, or elsewhere, could try to perpetuate the current good-faith situation by not proselytizing for the cult of hating the other side here and in game, and stop interpreting every little raid incident as if it were a crime against humanity as well as a personally directed attack. Of course, actively sabotaging other guilds has to stop for this to work as well, but this tends to be retaliatory/escalatory anyway.

TL;DR: Blind spite and resentment for entire guilds on the part of a minority of veteran raiders is the root of why we can't have nice things on P1999, so grow up, get over past grievances, take responsibility for your own fuckups, and give people the benefit of the doubt for a change.

Not everyone is going to get all the loot they want in any case, but at least this way you wouldn't all have to be so mad at people on the internet all the time.

Incidentally, I agree with the current popular sentiment regarding reducing variance and adding more faux patch days, though more for "IT'S CLASSIC" reasons than because I think it will help the raid scene. If there are players who are on a mission to fuck other players because of things that happened a year ago, it doesn't matter what changes are made - the same shit will just manifest in new ways.

[Alarti0001]

If TMO had any credibility whatsoever, you would not be a member for the inflammatory and brainless things you constantly and consistently post. You are either representative of TMO leadership or they have no power to rein you in, and either way it reflects extremely poorly on them and the rest of the guild. I am now ignoring you forever, and may God have mercy on your soul.

You obviously dont get it, the guy said im mad so i said he was a hermaphrodite, demonstrating that name calling doesnt make something true...

But you ignoring me just helps cement my opinions about you. Anyone who hides from ideas other than their own is not capable of clear logic.

[Alarti0001]

About 15 times i have said what I would like to see.

Bi weekly respawns with a shorter variance. That would give us all enough things to compete over. And honestly be a kick in the shins for our populace. We could compete over the amounts of stuff we kill. We could compete about mobilization and with chess games about the chase during patch day.. (NEWS FLASH: Tmo wins most mobs due to mobilization and dispersement of raid enabled alts in places to get an engage in a hurry)

I am not interested in competing with a another guild in a pecker growing contest about who is number 1. TMO from the start of kunark, from what i have heard, built itself up to be number 1. I have no doubt they worked hard for it, in their own way. I just want to revitalize the server when it comes to end game content. Ehh, think what you want about me.

Increasing item spawns decreases the items worth, im not talking monetary value. But i will always remember the day i got my first carmine robe etc. One of the best things about eq was character uniqueness, items were rare so every raider you saw was wearing different gear. Not like WOW where everyone had T2 set and were all blue/brown clones of each other. Stop trying to turn this game into WoW, competition, grind, and actually earning your items instead of getting everything was what made EQ great.

[radditsu]

Increasing item spawns decreases the items worth, im not talking monetary value. But i will always remember the day i got my first carmine robe etc. One of the best things about eq was character uniqueness, items were rare so every raider you saw was wearing different gear. Not like WOW where everyone had T2 set and were all blue/brown clones of each other. Stop trying to turn this game into WoW, competition, grind, and actually earning your items instead of getting everything was what made EQ great.

Bi weekly *at least* Patch spawns and a short variance are classic? Sometimes you would get 2-3 repops a week on a blown patch.

[Geofizzle]

To all those wanting a rotation with GM enforcement, I suggest WoW, not an EQclassic server. I don't recall any GM enforced rotations on live, and when rotations did exist, they were player created. Player created rotations would, obviously, be put into effect when all players agreed on it. That's not the case on P99, so basically, you all need to stop crying or go to one of the other hold-your-hand MMOs that are so prevalant nowadays. I'm all for rotations if they're in good faith, but unfortunately not everyone on the server thinks they're entitled to things by merely logging on like most of the BDA posting on this thread.

Oh, and to all the haters, TMO earned it legit. Whether it was the 67 IB/VD vs. 36 TMO on that final IB vs. TMO CT kill (followed by a choice IB ninja lewt), or roflstomping the IB re-tag in VP, or crushing almost every guild in terms of mobilization, tracking, heart, commitment, and skill in the last year, we've earned it. Sorry you're mad. And we'll be coming back strong in a few days.

[bylbob]

Increasing item spawns decreases the items worth, im not talking monetary value. But i will always remember the day i got my first carmine robe etc. One of the best things about eq was character uniqueness, items were rare so every raider you saw was wearing different gear. Not like WOW where everyone had T2 set and were all blue/brown clones of each other. Stop trying to turn this game into WoW, competition, grind, and actually earning your items instead of getting everything was what made EQ great.

If you want classic items worth, you should ask for 3 or 4 x longer respawn then, it was the main reason gear was sorta rare, peoples moved to new expac and farmed old content a lot less.

[Tanthallas]

I guess the minimal raid force with minimal amount of key classes that is essentially a glorified pickup raid who have not raided together before killing raid mobs in a zone that no longer gives the ability to hide from significant area of effect damage is "screw it , here's your loot".

I guess we have to be trained by another guild for it to count as a challenge. In that case TMO has not had a challenge in months. Why don't you go up to vp after the ban and have you guys train each other all day.

Post of the month.

[radditsu]

If you want classic items worth, you should ask for 3 or 4 x longer respawn then, it was the main reason gear was sorta rare, peoples moved to new expac and farmed old content a lot less.

4x Variance engaged. One raid target a week pops! I like it.

[Tanthallas]

The night with Draco another point that nobody mentioned was that after the minutes of kiting BDA was not the first to tag Draco out of the train. That issue was never really revisited and Draco probably would never have been mentioned in general if it wasn't for what happened afterwards.

All I'm saying is if things become a petition/fraps fest you won't have to go far when pointing the finger.

Once again you use terms like "lesser" guild. Which kind of befuddles me because BDA probably has more active members than TMO.

I personally tagged Draco first. Thanks.

Ambrotos was there the whole time watching.

Post some proof? Or just keep talking?

[Xadion]

...
Post some proof? Or just keep talking?

I like your ideals and would like to subscribe to your newsletter... however your tone needs more drama- please use the search function on the forum to go back about 1 to 1.5 years to the DA vs IB days and review IBs posts- they have much more interesting and verbose ways of saying "POST PROOF LULULZ" while doing shady shit- you could learn a lot from them and also maybe create new ways of doing such things- as it seems this is the road chosen....yet again.

[Atmas]

I personally tagged Draco first. Thanks.

Ambrotos was there the whole time watching.

Post some proof? Or just keep talking?

I don't think Ambrotos was in the zone the whole time, if he was it would have been nice of him to mention something when Draco was being kited with 27 TMO and 10 BDA in the zone. I think he was there when the mob fell below the ground.

You are right though, I don't have any proof other than what I heard in vent. But you don't really have any proof either so /shrug.

[Nietche]

I personally tagged Draco first. Thanks.

Ambrotos was there the whole time watching.

Post some proof? Or just keep talking?

Had Ambrotos been there the entire time, he would have seen your bard kiting Dracro around for 3-5 minutes before a TMO monk tagged it off him with 5 charges of a mallet, followed by a BDA member tagging it off his peel.

[Tanthallas]

I really dont care to respond to the troll above you, Atmas, but I would just say that you should not use what you hear in vent to make a claim like you did. I am sure we are all guilty of it at some time or another. From your reply, it seems you atleast in principle agree.

Being there personally and being the individual to personally tag Draco and have him chase me back - I take offense to the constant use of this night as some example of BDA somehow wronging TMO. I also think it is quite sad that this is the ONLY particular example ever cited as well - a quite unsubstantiated claim at best.

Now, there is always the chance that I merely THOUGHT I had the initial tag. I have discussed this for a long time with Necrious and neither of us have really come to any other conclusion than we both thought to have FTE but could very well have been wrong. It really should be left at that unless the discussion can be moved to more concrete terms.

[Tanthallas]

You really are pushing it now, arent you Nietche.

HOW CAN I PULL OFF OF 5 MALLET CLICKS WITH A CLICK OF A TEMP FLUX STAFF ????

Actually - I want you to tell me what in this game could pull off 5 mallet clicks so quickly? I am making popcorn now; cannot wait for this response.

Edit - this is not rants and flames. I am not sure if this is the appropriate place for this. I will move this to RnF if i get a reply to this particular conversation.

[Alarti0001]

Bi weekly *at least* Patch spawns and a short variance are classic? Sometimes you would get 2-3 repops a week on a blown patch.

How often did you get patches lol

[Alarti0001]

You really are dumb, arent you Nietche.

HOW CAN I PULL OFF OF 5 MALLET CLICKS WITH A CLICK OF A TEMP FLUX STAFF ????

You are arguing semantics, ambrotos was not there the whole time. TMO had to fte and bda pulled it off. How you did it doesn't matter. Stay on point, troll.

[Atmas]

I think it was Sanluen (I could be wrong) who said a wizard and monk pulled Draco, which I thought was a little odd.

Anyway though, as you say it is pretty moot at this time. The reason it gets brought up is because TMO really just sat and did not interfere with you killing the mob though we were fairly certain we had FTE. I think it just became a bigger deal after subsquent disciplinary actions against TMO.

There aren't that many offenses against TMO by BDA, and if you eliminate conjecture the same is pretty much true vice versa. I can think of obviously at least once incident. It's not like BDA has been in the number two slot a long time and heads are bumped at every kill.

[Tanthallas]

Discussion moved to RNF

[Alarti0001]

I think it was Sanluen (I could be wrong) who said a wizard and monk pulled Draco, which I thought was a little odd.

Anyway though, as you say it is pretty moot at this time. The reason it gets brought up is because TMO really just sat and did not interfere with you killing the mob though we were fairly certain we had FTE. I think it just became a bigger deal after subsquent disciplinary actions against TMO.

There aren't that many offenses against TMO by BDA, and if you eliminate conjecture the same is pretty much true vice versa. I can think of obviously at least once incident. It's not like BDA has been in the number two slot a long time and heads are bumped at every kill.

Its just some VD hate culture spreading throughout the ranks.

[Ambrotos]

I don't think Ambrotos was in the zone the whole time, if he was it would have been nice of him to mention something when Draco was being kited with 27 TMO and 10 BDA in the zone. I think he was there when the mob fell below the ground.

You are right though, I don't have any proof other than what I heard in vent. But you don't really have any proof either so /shrug.

I wish I was there for the entire event. I was cross between someone sending me a tell in eq that Draco spawned/Race, in the middle of another game, and some douchebag hitting my car in my drive way. When I arrived I saw Divinity in the zone only with 1 BDA. So off the bat I just assumed they were teamed up.


[Wed Jun 13 01:15:30 2012] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:43 2012] You have entered Plane of Fear.
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:44 2012] [GM] You are currently hidden to all clients
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:45 2012] Auto attack is on.
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:45 2012] You must first click on the being you wish to attack!
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:46 2012] Auto attack is off.
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:54 2012] You say, '#invul on'
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:54 2012] Ambrotos is now invulnerable from attack.
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:54 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:54 2012] ---------------------------
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Denzig <Divinity>
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Azazel <Divinity>
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Wiggles <Divinity>
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Zophie <Divinity>
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hangan <Divinity>
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:54 2012] <LINKDEAD>[ANONYMOUS] Ezekiel <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Wed Jun 13 01:15:54 2012] There are 6 players in Plane of Fear.

[Wed Jun 13 01:19:15 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Wed Jun 13 01:19:15 2012] ---------------------------
[Wed Jun 13 01:19:15 2012] [58 Troubadour] Arconis (Wood Elf) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Wed Jun 13 01:19:15 2012] [60 Grandmaster] Quizy (Human) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:19:15 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Denzig <Divinity>
[Wed Jun 13 01:19:15 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Azazel <Divinity>
[Wed Jun 13 01:19:15 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Zophie <Divinity>
[Wed Jun 13 01:19:15 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hangan <Divinity>
[Wed Jun 13 01:19:15 2012] There are 6 players in Plane of Fear.

As for the pulling off the train this is all I had. I had ported to Draco and had to head outside @ 23:51 right after I did a guildstatus on someone running with the train with the BDA bard.

[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] ---------------------------
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [59 Templar] Iddy (Gnome) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Puurfectcat <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Assassin] Supaskillz (Halfling) <Bregan D`Aerth> LFG
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Joroz <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Hierophant] Twaila (Halfling) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Artaxerxius LFG
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Sorcerer] Atmas (High Elf) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [56 Templar] Areyleun (High Elf) <Bregan D`Aerth> LFG
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 High Priest] Desmo (Human) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Skullmonkey <Bregan D`Aerth> LFG
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Crusader] Hammer (Dwarf) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Astizen <Bregan D`Aerth> LFG
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Xerxes <Bregan D`Aerth> LFG
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Beverage <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Phatboil <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Hierophant] Aquelin (Skeleton) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Cladrik <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Lacie <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Hierophant] Knix (Half Elf) <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Oracle] Ogben (Ogre) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Korrath <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Arkyiane <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Froovy <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Phantasmist] Zenorek (Gnome) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Sorcerer] Hookrs (Erudite) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Oracle] Vostok (Barbarian) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Warlock] Altrum (Gnome) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Sorcerer] Acillatem (Human) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Necrious <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Warlock] Ingrid (Dark Elf) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Arch Mage] Marmo (Gnome) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Utalnayan <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Warlock] Nietche (Dark Elf) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jintsu <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Grandmaster] Silentone (Human) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Grandmaster] Jjlent (Human) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Warder] Internode (Wood Elf) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Grandmaster] Reptak (Iksar) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Wiggles <Divinity>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Virtuoso] Yibz (Half Elf) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [58 Troubadour] Arconis (Wood Elf) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [60 Grandmaster] Quizy (Human) <The Mystical Order>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Denzig <Divinity>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Azazel <Divinity>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Zophie <Divinity>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Hangan <Divinity>
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:24 2012] There are 46 players in Plane of Fear.
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:35 2012] Vostok begins to cast a spell. (Cannibalize III)
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:36 2012] Desmo begins to cast a spell. (Aegis)
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:39 2012] Desmo's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:39 2012] Vostok begins to cast a spell. (Cannibalize III)
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:41 2012] Teleporting to a_dracoliche000.
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:44 2012] You were hit by non-melee for 2 damage.
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:44 2012] YOU were injured by falling.
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:44 2012] Your GM status protects you from 2 points of type 252 environmental damage.
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:48 2012] You were hit by non-melee for 39 damage.
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:48 2012] YOU were injured by falling.
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:48 2012] Your GM status protects you from 39 points of type 252 environmental damage.
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:57 2012] You were hit by non-melee for 2 damage.
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:57 2012] YOU were injured by falling.
[Wed Jun 13 01:21:57 2012] Your GM status protects you from 2 points of type 252 environmental damage.
[Wed Jun 13 01:22:03 2012] You were hit by non-melee for 1 damage.
[Wed Jun 13 01:22:03 2012] YOU were injured by falling.
[Wed Jun 13 01:22:03 2012] Your GM status protects you from 1 points of type 252 environmental damage.
[Wed Jun 13 01:22:39 2012] Silentone shouts, 'PULL it off the train'
[Wed Jun 13 01:22:42 2012] Silentone shouts, 'or we will'
[Wed Jun 13 01:23:11 2012] Desmo shouts, 'Tick tock tick tock tick tock'
[Wed Jun 13 01:23:33 2012] You were hit by non-melee for 45 damage.
[Wed Jun 13 01:23:33 2012] YOU were injured by falling.
[Wed Jun 13 01:23:33 2012] Your GM status protects you from 45 points of type 252 environmental damage.
[Wed Jun 13 01:23:51 2012] Yibz is a member of The Mystical Order.
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:02 2012] a dracoliche's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:03 2012] a dracoliche begins to cast a spell. (Boil Blood)
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:04 2012] Artaxerxius says out of character, 'you guys need to pull it'
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:09 2012] a dracoliche begins to cast a spell. (Heart Flutter)
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:12 2012] a dracoliche's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:17 2012] a dracoliche begins to cast a spell. (Heart Flutter)
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:20 2012] a dracoliche's casting is interrupted!
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:31 2012] a dracoliche begins to cast a spell. (Heart Flutter)
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:36 2012] a dracoliche begins to cast a spell. (Boil Blood)
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:43 2012] a dracoliche begins to cast a spell. (Boil Blood)
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:44 2012] Xyphon begins to cast a spell. (Celestial Elixir)
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:45 2012] Scorchin begins to cast a spell. (Lure of Frost)
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:46 2012] Dinen begins to cast a spell. (Superior Healing)
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:47 2012] a dracoliche regains concentration and continues casting.
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:48 2012] Astizen begins to cast a spell. (Lure of Flame)
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:49 2012] a dracoliche begins to cast a spell. (Disease Cloud)
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:50 2012] Serpator begins to cast a spell. (Siphon Strength)
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:50 2012] A dracoliche is weakened by the Rage of Vallon.
[Wed Jun 13 01:24:50 2012] Cladrik scores a critical hit! (126)


The only thing I could see off that was the first melee hit/casts onto draco. I saw no other spells cast or melee hit in my chat logs. Even people casting mallets or right clickies show up in my spell spam.
Between seeing that, and the train not go after anyone else when they wiped, I could only go off of they had agro and no one tagged. There was nothing else I could look at. The log system was broken, and the events during that time aren't even showing. So when I went to go check to see if they did have FTE/Agro after it went under the world. Was nothing to see. That's when I went to IRC to ask the opinions from the staff, and they said let bda have a chance to take it. I talked to the only person from TMO who took claim as a raid leader and they said they had no issues, and wished them luck. There was no question raised as to who had fte, only they trained around too long.

This is where I finally said enough of the training crap. There had been mixed rulings in the past about if you trained Draco, it wasn't counted as FTE. There was no clear way to see who had FTE. It was whoever got it to the camp. So the rule was made no more training him around, and we won't have that issue.

So to say TMO or BDA didn't/did have FTE is a guess work at best from the tools that I had available and saw in my own chat logs. So to try and old the draco situation over peoples heads is pointless.

[Wed Jun 13 01:31:23 2012] TMO guild member tells you, 'give it to bda ... It popped under the world it was thiers'

[Wed Jun 13 01:35:20 2012] Appointed TMO raid leader tells you, 'remind them afterwards to not kite stuff till their force arrives =p. we let them take the chance they shouldn't have gotten'

If TMO would have pulled Draco off of the train and killed him, I'd have said good stuff since that's how it was ruled a few times in the past. BDA would have cried that they had FTE due to training and I'd have told them tough shit. The situation is prevented from happening again at least due to training. So something other than hurt butts came out of it.

TL/DR

Move on, don't even bring up Draco from either guild. Simple communication between Guild Leaders/Raid Leaders would lead to situations that can be defused by them, and no server rules being broken in the process.

[Xadion]

... hurt butts ...
.

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4563854345568489&id=822ec0e73701be07224a5fbda770ed35

I logged on just to post this...indeed.

[radditsu]

How often did you get patches lol

It was povar. the rustbucket. Sometimes you had to kick it a few times to get it running.

[Lazortag]

How often did you get patches lol

You can go through patch history during the classic period and see how often patches happened on average (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/19992002.php). Last I checked it was something like once every week and a half for content patches, but I could be remembering wrong. That's a lot compared to p99 where patches seem to happen every two months, and sometimes without a full repop.

[Darwoth10]

You can go through patch history during the classic period and see how often patches happened on average (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/19992002.php). Last I checked it was something like once every week and a half for content patches, but I could be remembering wrong. That's a lot compared to p99 where patches seem to happen every two months, and sometimes without a full repop.

Trying to compare "content" patches between

a game that had been released in 1999, the first of its kind, with most changes not even ending up in a changelog

vs

an emulated server in 2012

shouldn't even be noted as a talking point

[Alarti0001]

Trying to compare "content" patches between

a game that had been released in 1999, the first of its kind, with most changes not even ending up in a changelog

vs

an emulated server in 2012

shouldn't even be noted as a talking point

I think he is trying to compare the lack of server repop, not content development

[radditsu]

Trying to compare "content" patches between

a game that had been released in 1999, the first of its kind, with most changes not even ending up in a changelog

vs

an emulated server in 2012

shouldn't even be noted as a talking point

eq mac still has repop days to this day no?

[Relapse1]

eq mac still has repop days to this day no?

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=187330

[radditsu]

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=187330

Continuing back from that thread looks like about once a month.

Cool

[nilbog]

You can go through patch history during the classic period and see how often patches happened on average (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/19992002.php). Last I checked it was something like once every week and a half for content patches, but I could be remembering wrong. That's a lot compared to p99 where patches seem to happen every two months, and sometimes without a full repop.

This is taken into consideration in the raid changes I have proposed. When Rogean and I are in agreement, it will be discussed with the staff, then I will outline it to players to discuss.

Coming soon.

[radditsu]

This is taken into consideration in the raid changes I have proposed. When Rogean and I are in agreement, it will be discussed with the staff, then I will outline it to players to discuss.

Coming soon.

Squeeee! I am excited about this revelation!

[Slave]

This is taken into consideration in the raid changes I have proposed. When Rogean and I are in agreement, it will be discussed with the staff, then I will outline it to players to discuss.

Coming soon.

Dude.

<FONT SIZE=6 FACE="Arial"><b>DUDE!!</b></font>

[Nirgon]

I really hope Darwoth wasn't banned for that post

[Xadion]

I do remember patchdays being big for my guild on live as a 2nd/3rd teir guild it allowed us to get in on some higher stuff than usual while the top dogs raced for the tip top targets.

this won't happen as much in kunark : but in vel it will be huge... The big guys will go after the long cycle kings and big loots, leaving dain, east tov etc all open