Suggestion: Fix raid drama, increase GM response lower staff stress.

[Tiggles]

If you have raided on this server you know that people constantly petition each other for everything and the GMs and guides often give decisions that can change from incident to incident. I was drinking a cup of coffee a few minutes ago and i was pondering the situation.

Here is my situation that will create more guides that are free from corruption because they are already corrupt!

Amelinda and Ambrotos do a great job keeping this server safe from hackers boxers and helping players with petitions not based around raids. But, when confronted with giant raid disputes they can sometimes fall short or be imconsitant.

I suggest that any guild who would like to can recommand to the staff a player who is willing to be a psedu guide that while doing normal guide duties is also 100% in charge of that guilds petitions and it is HIS job to present his case to the powers at be.

I call these "guild patrons" and the reason i chose to make them actually staff instead of just a player is that being a patron is a responsibility and agreeing to be one is not to be taken forgranted. When not dealing with disputes they will will handle very basic guide fuctions such as answering petitions and doing general low lvl stuff.

If a guild patron abuses his power then both his guide account and attached player accounts will be deleted.

The second part of this would be what i would call a judge and this is the hardest part of my idea to flesh out..preferably it would be nilbog but if he didnt not want the stress he could elect another 100% nuetral person. They will not post on public forums as a judge will never log in game and his identity will not be known to players. His job is to hear the evidence from the guild patrons and make a decision. The decision will be passed down to Amelinda who will enforce it. This takes the resposibility of the decision out of the player facing GMs and also stops corruption claims from guides before you have a guide on your side fighting for your case.


example:

Zeelot petitions that BDA trained them on trak ledge he has a fraps showing a BDA necro coming to them and FDing

He hands this information to his guild patron who then posts it on the forum or irc channel or who ever you want to discuss it.


The guild patron contacts BDA and tells him of the petition and bda contactcs its patron tells him there side of the story and gives them a fraps showing that the train was originally caused by tmo member and it chained onto the necro.


Both patrons discuss there case before the judge and reviewing the evidence he makes his decision.

[godbox]

patron recieves loot rights on something nice from some guild to make different decisions?

[Austrianna]

I have put up with a lot of training asshats and people pulling from our camps etc. I never petition. Why? I get the feeling no one cares/it wouldn't matter anyway. Some level 58 asshat warrior training all the lowbies in MM a week or so ago with all the gargoyles because he can. Many people OOC'd asking him to stop training. His response? "It's not training, go look it up in the rules".

Most of the time I figure by the time a petition would be looked at, it would be over with anyway.

I had two different guide accounts on live EQ (played, became a guide, quit sometime later, came back after a couple years, new account, applied to be a guide again after a bit, etc). I figure here you have to be someone or know someone to be of help in that capacity.

Guild raid drama aside, it would be nice if the asshats that want to shit all over people just trying to XP were dealt with.

[Tiggles]

patron recieves loot rights on something nice from some guild to make different decisions?

If one Patron bribes another patron and he is found out then both patrons characters get deleted.

If you don't think your patron is doing his job then the guild has the right to elect another.

[Tiggles]

I have put up with a lot of training asshats and people pulling from our camps etc. I never petition. Why? I get the feeling no one cares/it wouldn't matter anyway. Some level 58 asshat warrior training all the lowbies in MM a week or so ago with all the gargoyles because he can. Many people OOC'd asking him to stop training. His response? "It's not training, go look it up in the rules".

Most of the time I figure by the time a petition would be looked at, it would be over with anyway.

I had two different guide accounts on live EQ (played, became a guide, quit sometime later, came back after a couple years, new account, applied to be a guide again after a bit, etc). I figure here you have to be someone or know someone to be of help in that capacity.

Guild raid drama aside, it would be nice if the asshats that want to shit all over people just trying to XP were dealt with.

Stuff like that would be a normal petition for the guides and GMS to take care of. With the decrease in raid petitions shitting up the petition queue and the stress reduced the GMS would be able to quickly resolve other non raid issues.

[Austrianna]

My point was more that based on things I've read on the board, I don't even bother to petition things like that - it seems like it's more of an annoyance to the people who deal with it and they don't want to hear about camp issues, training etc.

[Ambrotos]

We do care if people train zones or whatever. The only bad part about it is, typically it'll happen at 3am or some odd time I'm not awake. I can't do anything if I can't see it. I do make a note of the person who was petitioned with the reasoning for it. So I keep an eye out for them.

As for a guilds and their raid antics. It's not that bad right now. It's nothing like it was for 7 months or so during the IB/TMO/VD raid wars. I refuse to allow it to slip to that again, no matter who the guild is. People have argued that GMs shouldn't be involved and the player base will work it out. This didn't work the 7 months it happened, so why would it suddenly work now?

As for the patrons thing:

I know there is a Raid Guild Discussion area on the boards. If a guild has an issue that needs to be resolved, only the Guild Leader/Officer should post something. They can post their side of the situations and have all Fraps/Logs out there so all the raid leaders can see, and maybe work it out from there. I'm not sure who all has access to it. I'm sure we can get the leaders access so we can try this out and see how it goes.

Bottom line has been if the players work something out, the GMs will step back and allow it. We won't enforce it, the player base has to police their own. This is the way it should be. GMs/Guides shouldn't have to show up to raid encounters knowing something is going to happen. We should only have to show up and correct something if it's bugged. I'm sure Chest, Zeelot, or any other raid leader who has petitioned in game for a situation, received my respect and I listened to the entire situation and walked though it with them can attest to this.


TL/DR

We have a raid section. Get the Guild Leaders+1 or 2 officers access to post what they need to. They can give all information there, work out a good course of action as to what happened and what needs to be done.

[Tiggles]

We do care if people train zones or whatever. The only bad part about it is, typically it'll happen at 3am or some odd time I'm not awake. I can't do anything if I can't see it. I do make a note of the person who was petitioned with the reasoning for it. So I keep an eye out for them.

As for a guilds and their raid antics. It's not that bad right now. It's nothing like it was for 7 months or so during the IB/TMO/VD raid wars. I refuse to allow it to slip to that again, no matter who the guild is. People have argued that GMs shouldn't be involved and the player base will work it out. This didn't work the 7 months it happened, so why would it suddenly work now?

As for the patrons thing:

I know there is a Raid Guild Discussion area on the boards. If a guild has an issue that needs to be resolved, only the Guild Leader/Officer should post something. They can post their side of the situations and have all Fraps/Logs out there so all the raid leaders can see, and maybe work it out from there. I'm not sure who all has access to it. I'm sure we can get the leaders access so we can try this out and see how it goes.

Bottom line has been if the players work something out, the GMs will step back and allow it. We won't enforce it, the player base has to police their own. This is the way it should be. GMs/Guides shouldn't have to show up to raid encounters knowing something is going to happen. We should only have to show up and correct something if it's bugged. I'm sure Chest, Zeelot, or any other raid leader who has petitioned in game for a situation, received my respect and I listened to the entire situation and walked though it with them can attest to this.


TL/DR

We have a raid section. Get the Guild Leaders+1 or 2 officers access to post what they need to. They can give all information there, work out a good course of action as to what happened and what needs to be done.


Nice try Bisch


also, no one uses the raid section this would allow a direct consequence free moderation of the raid scene when it gets bad, and it will get bad soon.

[Ambrotos]

[16:42] iTiggles: Ambrotos tmo thinks your bisch
[16:42] iTiggles: I said your not a big enough fag to be him

OH why did you change your mind?! Stop the trolling

On a serious note, why would the Guild Leaders of guilds not be able to work something out on their own? I know Zeelot wasn't pretty happy what raid leaders did to get them in trouble. I would rather Guild Leaders police their own guilds, and the situations some "rogue" members of their guilds do. I'm sure the Guild Leaders would rather that also.

[Tiggles]

[16:42] iTiggles: Ambrotos tmo thinks your bisch
[16:42] iTiggles: I said your not a big enough fag to be him

OH why did you change your mind?! Stop the trolling

On a serious note, why would the Guild Leaders of guilds not be able to work something out on their own? I know Zeelot wasn't pretty happy what raid leaders did to get them in trouble. I would rather Guild Leaders police their own guilds, and the situations some "rogue" members of their guilds do. I'm sure the Guild Leaders would rather that also.

The guild leader can be the patron of the guild thats not an issue and probably would be.
Making the character a guide was more so to eliminate normal players from interfacing with the the staff something that has been a problem.

As a guide they can lead a raid but also would have to put in some work on there guide character to keep the right of guild representation.

Zeelot is too busy to lead a guild and do some guide work so he could elect someone else who could.

[Joroz]

gm's don't seem that stressed over the last week... doing trivia, starting up a best of the best, etc... only one thing has changed.

[mwatt]

I am not in favor of adding complexity to reduce complications. This patron idea just introduces a whole lot of other ways for things to go wrong or get harder to deal with. Simple is better.

Your answer to that may be, "but it isn't working the way it is". My response to that would be that players who perpetrate wrong doings (and or guild leaders who permit it) are already responsible for bad behavior. The real issue here is that there is not sufficient staff to actually police the players adequately. Add more GMs, you might improve things. Anything less is not going to work.

Ambrotos is right. If there is any way in which a representative of a guild might make it easier for the GMs to do their job, the guild leader is the natural, simple and existing point of contact. We don't need another layer. Besides, it wouldn't be "classic" =P

Having said all of the above, I do applaud you for trying to come up with constructive ideas to help make things better.

[Sularys]

enable pvp problem solved overnight.

This wouldn't solve a thing. PvP server failed, get over it and move on.

[Nietche]

This wouldn't solve a thing. PvP server failed, get over it and move on.

PvP server wasn't classic. That's the premier reason it failed.

I agree with Doors.

[radditsu]

books dont work?

[Nirgon]

Was hoping more lulzy examples would be posted

[DarkwingDuck]

enable pvp problem solved overnight.

Haha noooo don't ... But it's true..

Except the guild with the most power.. Really has the most power.. Then it eats even stickier.."do something about it"
Ahh Rallos Zek

[Sularys]

Classic or not, fail is fail. Enabling PvP won't solve anything. Would create even more problems and a smaller population on the server.