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View Full Version : If a new p99 server opened with forced raid target rotations would you switch?


Asher
06-27-2012, 02:43 AM
I voted yes, because while I understand that many people like the idea of competition and waking up at 3am is fun for them I would like to see a place where casuals and people with familes, jobs etc could schedule time to do content that they would not normally have access to.

I honestly could care less if Velious opened because there is so much content left in Kunark that I cannot see because I am not a member of the top guild and cannot commit that much time to this game.

I hope this can stay clean and out of RnF but that probably isn't very likely. :(

Asher

Zereh
06-27-2012, 03:14 AM
I voted yes, because while I understand that many people like the idea of competition and waking up at 3am is fun for them I would like to see a place where casuals and people with familes, jobs etc could schedule time to do content that they would not normally have access to.

There is a whole genre of games who cater exclusively to this kind of player. ~.~ Why lobby to turn a classic EQ EMU server into that kind of game as well?

Joroz
06-27-2012, 03:33 AM
probably because its already different from classic by being what it is and always will be.

Clark
06-27-2012, 03:40 AM
no

Harrison
06-27-2012, 03:42 AM
I'd play just because new servers are fun and exciting, but forced rotations are pretty retarded.

If the rules were properly enforced on the already existing server(s), consistently, there would be no need for a second server with a rotation.

(Also, variance needs to be removed for this argument to be more accurate)

Tecmos Deception
06-27-2012, 07:43 AM
I'd play just because new servers are fun and exciting

Same.

No amount of characters and wealth amassed on this p99 could, imo, be as fun as a new server would be.

casdegere
06-27-2012, 08:38 AM
Yes, some of the exploiters have gotten away with bloody murder before they were caught, obviously giving their spoils to other accounts or people beforehand. A reboot would be a fresh start and maybe some of the nasty people would just move on finally. EQ might be dated but it's still the funnest game I've ever played since it's creation. It continues to bring me back. The classic server, it's mods and developers continue to bring me back. I think server mechanics should be pointed towards the average player, the majority not the TMOer who lives here, the few no-lifers. You all see how they defend themselves. Vicious. More people would log in if they knew their guild had a chance at raid content. The reasoning TMO constantly provides is what is keeping people with 60 level characters from logging in. I understand their arguement, that they spend more time, expend more effort, they deserve their raid targets but it's not healthy for themselves or the server population. A rotation would get people to log in due to opportunity. More guilds would see their numbers swell. But it's a different mentality to consider about how raids are done and guilds would still need to be diligent and ready when their pop window is up. I know people will be chomping at the bit, watching to see a guild whose turn it is to miss their window. INSTEAD of attempting to inform them their window clock is running. This kind of selfless act can only work for such guilds who help each other out. Promoting a positive attitude amongst the raiders.

a reboot would not, however really stop them from locking down content though like Lockets of Escape camp, NoS camp, VP key camps etc. I do not much care for allowing a person in line to call up a guild member to get in line behind them in front of someone else who is already there waiting. I feel that a guild member needs to be there, in zone, in proximaty of the camp in question before others arrive to be allowed in line.

I would love to see the server promote and reward a more cooperative mindset.

Tecmos Deception
06-27-2012, 08:49 AM
a reboot would not, however really stop them from locking down content though like Lockets of Escape camp, NoS camp, VP key camps etc. I do not much care for allowing a person in line to call up a guild member to get in line behind them in front of someone else who is already there waiting. I feel that a guild member needs to be there, in zone, in proximaty of the camp in question before others arrive to be allowed in line.

Wtf is this line stuff you're talking about?

You sure you're playing on the same server as the rest of us?

Tuffpuppy
06-27-2012, 08:52 AM
These "if a new p99 opened because blah blah blah" posts pop up way too often. No there shouldn't be a new server to cut the already small pop even smaller, and rotations were stupid on live, and a terrible idea on an emu server. If you want uncontested or lots of raid targets, go play on THF or something.

Xadion
06-27-2012, 09:11 AM
you people need to stop asking/forcing/pushing for/demanding/or saying it is even a good idea of- rotations just stop ffs its not going to happen no matter how you word it or disguise your silly posts.

step up and play or not- that is whats great about MMOs and deff EQ- I had a old co worker who was a 40+ yr old lady and played EQ and bought every xpac from 1999 untill like 2005 and was level 45 on like 5 characters- all she did was wonder around, trade skill and socialize.

Some people love the group content.

the people that want raid content...must do what they must do in order to enjoy the raid content... its how it is.

Spectre
06-27-2012, 09:25 AM
The idea that nobody else has a shot at these raid encounters is ludicrous. Don't want to kill something that spawns at 3am? Good for you, but it doesn't spawn at 3am every single time. TMO had let its guard down severely before this raid suspension; all it takes is a few good people and a solid plan to get some attempts in, maybe a little hustle. It doesn't take a fucking miracle.

But now you've roused the beast!

fadetree
06-27-2012, 09:41 AM
No.

Swish
06-27-2012, 09:43 AM
Server population too low to support a new server.

The rest of the thread is a bit of a footnote :/

Rkahor
06-27-2012, 09:49 AM
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=630552&postcount=134

[16:05] <&Rogean> yea not sure what they got used to on vztz but we don't wipe anything here
[16:05] <&Rogean> to do so would set the precedent that peoples' characters aren't safe from vanishing, which is bad for any server
[16:06] <&Rogean> will absolutely never happen
[16:06] <&Rogean> feel free to copy that and paste it in threads on the forums

Ravager
06-27-2012, 09:57 AM
The problem with this poll is that it's asking two things at once. It's asking if you'd play on a new blue P99 server and it's asking if you want forced raid rotations. There's no way to get an accurate idea of what the people voting yes actually want.

casdegere
06-27-2012, 10:00 AM
The idea that nobody else has a shot at these raid encounters is ludicrous. Don't want to kill something that spawns at 3am? Good for you, but it doesn't spawn at 3am every single time. TMO had let its guard down severely before this raid suspension; all it takes is a few good people and a solid plan to get some attempts in, maybe a little hustle. It doesn't take a fucking miracle.

But now you've roused the beast!

Riiight and TMO getting suspended, and their antics with BDA are not a result of their entitlement complex? There is no interest in fostering a progressive raiding scene. It only takes one TMO stooge to say, "My alt needs this or that," and it's on! Come hell or leap frogging they will get that raid pixel.

Edit: Considering how much content TMO has swallowed thus far the server should adopt the big brother policy. If a raid is contested and there is a conflict, blame TMO and force them to give up the loot. Problem solved and 90% of the server is happy.

Atmas
06-27-2012, 10:02 AM
I would like to see a place where casuals and people with familes, jobs etc could schedule time to do content that they would not normally have access to.

This rhetoric gets kind of old. I have a full time job and a family and I've been on the server for a long enough time, with enough friends in most major guilds, to see that TMO isn't less or more employed than anyone else. If you can get a toon to the point of being ready to do a raid you obviously put some time in and as Spectre said it is not like every raid mob spawns at 3 AM.

Arteker
06-27-2012, 10:09 AM
This rhetoric gets kind of old. I have a full time job and a family and I've been on the server for a long enough time, with enough friends in most major guilds, to see that TMO isn't less or more employed than anyone else. If you can get a toon to the point of being ready to do a raid you obviously put some time in and as Spectre said it is not like every raid mob spawns at 3 AM.

also you can count with those evil euros to help when such mobs pop that early

maahes
06-27-2012, 10:15 AM
probably because its already different from classic by being what it is and always will be.

This actually isn't true. On LIVE there were 3 guilds on Torvo that had the top spots. Blades of Wrath was #1, # 2 and 3 was Monolith and Immortals Rising. Bow was about a year farther in content than 2 or 3. IR was the second to kill the Avator of War on Torvo. It took them a full YEAR to kill AoW's after BoW.

So this server is actually very close to classic. On classic at this time line there was only 1 or 2 guilds per server that had their shit figured out.

Tr0llb0rn
06-27-2012, 10:17 AM
there is already a new server where the players have the power to force rotations if they'd like.

Red99

Why wait for days in a cave for a mob to spawn? Just fight for it and take what is yours.

Currently there is a blanket +50 percent xp bonus in place, on top of the regular 100 percent xp bonus (that goes down 2 percent per level after level 1), so the xp is faster.

The toxic community memebers of red99 server have already been run off by the resident White Knights in Nihilum. We welcome anyone who would like to experience project99's raid game to come on over. Currently raiding naggy/vox/hate/fear and Sky. Kunark is expected sometime very soon, come get to lvl 50 and be ready.

They say Content in King, and red99 has it all for the doing, minius the 100 man zerg poopsocking in every lair and cave in the game.

Swish
06-27-2012, 10:28 AM
The toxic community memebers of red99 server have already been run off by the resident White Knights in Nihilum.

:D

Alarti0001
06-27-2012, 11:09 AM
you people need to stop asking/forcing/pushing for/demanding/or saying it is even a good idea of- rotations just stop ffs its not going to happen no matter how you word it or disguise your silly posts.

step up and play or not- that is whats great about MMOs and deff EQ- I had a old co worker who was a 40+ yr old lady and played EQ and bought every xpac from 1999 untill like 2005 and was level 45 on like 5 characters- all she did was wonder around, trade skill and socialize.

Some people love the group content.

the people that want raid content...must do what they must do in order to enjoy the raid content... its how it is.

Anyone is welcome, im sure, to create their own server, pay for it, and make whatever rules they want. Do that.

Slave
06-27-2012, 11:18 AM
I'd play just because new servers are fun and exciting, but forced rotations are pretty retarded.

If the rules were properly enforced on the already existing server(s), consistently, there would be no need for a second server with a rotation.

(Also, variance needs to be removed for this argument to be more accurate)

Stop making sense and go back to your rabid trolling please! Or else I might catch heat by agreeing with you. Ohhh I see, old account, good luck. :)

inyane
06-27-2012, 11:26 AM
Of course TMO would be against this idea...its not the fun of getting pixels that is fun for a lot of them, it is more fun denying them to other people. Plus, probably the only people left on original P99 would be TMO.

Not sure why you guys are so against others having fun, with all your "go play another game" and "make your own server" blah blah blah Oh, wait, see my first point.

We get it. You guys are the best. You guys put in the time. You guys are the masters of EQ. (at least this non classic, 13 years later server)

Sorry that the other 75% of the server would like to see some more of everquest without dealing with your crap, and sucking you off because you guys were so generous as to leave an actual raid mob up for someone else to kill.

I imagine a fresh server would make the population explode. So many people I know who left, not because they were sick of eq, but they were sick of this entitled attitude that the top people have.

Red99 would still have 15 people on. Current P99 would have 100 people on it. New server would have 800 people on it.

Guess TMO people worried they spent all that real money on something that wouldn't be worth as much with a new server.

Give the players a choice. Those that love batphoning and poopsocking can stay here. Those that just want to game a few hours and have a civil rotation, like many classic servers were, can go to a new home.

Tr0llb0rn
06-27-2012, 11:40 AM
Of course TMO would be against this idea...its not the fun of getting pixels that is fun for a lot of them, it is more fun denying them to other people.


hmmm, why dont they roll up on red99 then? They'd have far more tools there to "deny other people" then they do here.

Alarti0001
06-27-2012, 11:43 AM
Of course TMO would be against this idea...its not the fun of getting pixels that is fun for a lot of them, it is more fun denying them to other people. Plus, probably the only people left on original P99 would be TMO.

Not sure why you guys are so against others having fun, with all your "go play another game" and "make your own server" blah blah blah Oh, wait, see my first point.

We get it. You guys are the best. You guys put in the time. You guys are the masters of EQ. (at least this non classic, 13 years later server)

Sorry that the other 75% of the server would like to see some more of everquest without dealing with your crap, and sucking you off because you guys were so generous as to leave an actual raid mob up for someone else to kill.

I imagine a fresh server would make the population explode. So many people I know who left, not because they were sick of eq, but they were sick of this entitled attitude that the top people have.

Red99 would still have 15 people on. Current P99 would have 100 people on it. New server would have 800 people on it.

Guess TMO people worried they spent all that real money on something that wouldn't be worth as much with a new server.

Give the players a choice. Those that love batphoning and poopsocking can stay here. Those that just want to game a few hours and have a civil rotation, like many classic servers were, can go to a new home.

A new server costs money, time, effort, and more gm's you come in this thread and say " i want this, give it to me now". Why? Also you assume there are only two types of players on this server TMO or anti-tmo. This is called a false dilemma falacy. Project 1999 was for a classic eq experience if you want something non classic look at a different project or ...pay... for your own server.
You would have far less people on your new server than you suppose.

Tr0llb0rn
06-27-2012, 11:44 AM
I imagine a fresh server would make the population explode. So many people I know who left, not because they were sick of eq, but they were sick of this entitled attitude that the top people have.

Red99 would still have 15 people on. Current P99 would have 100 people on it. New server would have 800 people on it.


No, this is the same mistake all the exiled from red99 are making. A wipe would lead to the exact same thing all over again, the only thing different would be you'd have spent another 20 days /played leveling up again.

On competitive servers, the cream always rises to the top. You could release a new server every month and it would be the same people at the top at the end of each month.

Ghordo
06-27-2012, 11:50 AM
Yup, this is EQ it isn't a modern day MMO where their instances and handheld mechanics. It's a CONTESTED raid scene, that's EQ. Anything in this world that is worthwhile takes some form of effort, this is no differen't. Their is a difference between a casual player and a raider for a number of reasons. They have some nice options on EQemu to play on but don't fuck up this server with crying, this server got fucked up enough through crying and whining.

Ghordo
06-27-2012, 11:51 AM
PS. WTB Uthgaard pst.

Ravager
06-27-2012, 12:32 PM
A new server costs money, time, effort, and more gm's you come in this thread and say " i want this, give it to me now". Why? Also you assume there are only two types of players on this server TMO or anti-tmo. This is called a false dilemma falacy. Project 1999 was for a classic eq experience if you want something non classic look at a different project or ...pay... for your own server.
You would have far less people on your new server than you suppose.

Attitudes such as "go somewhere else to play if you don't like it" make the population suffer. The way most people who want to raid see their options as are:

A.) Join a raiding guild that isn't TMO and waste countless hours and days poopsocking and tracking to get maybe 1 in 10 mobs if you're lucky because you can't compete with 20-25% of the server with alts camped out at each mob.

B.) Join TMO and become part of the machine to get your free handouts or just to see raid content without putting up with TMO's idea of competition.

C.) Find somewhere else to play.

With the population as it is, it seems most people who want to raid chose B and C. The beauty of this server is that the devs do take feedback from the players and it's a very open and active community. This server is always a work in progress and there's always room for improvement and growth. To completely shut down any suggestions that aren't classic (btw this server can never be classic), even if it would help to boost the population and grow interest in the server is blind-sighted.

Asher
06-27-2012, 12:50 PM
A new server costs money, time, effort, and more gm's you come in this thread and say " i want this, give it to me now". Why? Also you assume there are only two types of players on this server TMO or anti-tmo. This is called a false dilemma falacy. Project 1999 was for a classic eq experience if you want something non classic look at a different project or ...pay... for your own server.
You would have far less people on your new server than you suppose.

Red99 is on life support if we are talking about resources I think we have it there. A server with a forced rotation would need less policing in my opinion. There wouldn't be any of this VDBDA vs. TMO fighting. I am sure there are many people who would volunteer to hash our a rotation schedule and with a GMs blessing there would be little to no fighting regarding raid targets.

I am not saying "I want this" and "give it to me now". I wanted to start a poll to see if others felt the same way I did. I know there are hardcore people like yourself and others in TMO that prefer how things are now.

I am not anti-TMO, I used to be in TMO. I didn't like spending every minute I had online raiding, and this was before the DA merger. I cannot be on call for a game but I would still like to kill trak and maybe see VP one day on this server.

Asher

Alarti0001
06-27-2012, 01:09 PM
Red99 is on life support if we are talking about resources I think we have it there. A server with a forced rotation would need less policing in my opinion. There wouldn't be any of this VDBDA vs. TMO fighting. I am sure there are many people who would volunteer to hash our a rotation schedule and with a GMs blessing there would be little to no fighting regarding raid targets.

I am not saying "I want this" and "give it to me now". I wanted to start a poll to see if others felt the same way I did. I know there are hardcore people like yourself and others in TMO that prefer how things are now.

I am not anti-TMO, I used to be in TMO. I didn't like spending every minute I had online raiding, and this was before the DA merger. I cannot be on call for a game but I would still like to kill trak and maybe see VP one day on this server.

Asher

Then stop distracting from the true fixes, nilbogs new raid rules, and velious.

Nirgon
06-27-2012, 01:13 PM
Harrison: "Alarti and Jeremy are some real pieces of shit Nirgon, you'd like them"

Yep they make sense, I like them. Good posting here.

Asher
06-27-2012, 01:28 PM
Then stop distracting from the true fixes, nilbogs new raid rules, and velious.

New raid rules would be nice, I am eager to see what he proposes. I could care less about velious. While I understand how important new content is for TMO, there are many of us who do not have access to content still in Kunark.

I am sorry you feel this is a distraction. Feel free to refrain from viewing this thread further.

Asher

casdegere
06-27-2012, 01:30 PM
No, this is the same mistake all the exiled from red99 are making. A wipe would lead to the exact same thing all over again, the only thing different would be you'd have spent another 20 days /played leveling up again.

On competitive servers, the cream always rises to the top. You could release a new server every month and it would be the same people at the top at the end of each month.


Problem is Trollborn is that Exploiters scarfed up Manastones and GEBs and other premium items by the hand fulls in just the short time the server has been out. From the onset people cheated and their ill gotten gains already smeared across the server. It's really getting old that one can't have an honest game anymore. Sure one might say, "Well how does this affect me?" It is the principle of the thing. Many of the 20 people on Red appear to have these items on every toon they possess. That said Red is more appealing to me than Blue is now. Having a choice between BDA and TMO? I'd rather have a dull toothed rat chew my toes off one toe at a time then to throw in with this lot.

Cars
06-27-2012, 01:40 PM
1. New server starts, people make friends as they all level together.

2. Serious time investors start to outpace the majority of the server, become better at doing more with less, a guild is formed of serious players.

3. up and commers (people who can play a lot) are recruited into guild and shown the "how to" guide for raiding.

4. This guild trivializes raid content, server doesn't care because they are not raid-ready yet as a majority. No drama...yet

5. casual players catch up and want pixels, current top guild that is raid-trained beats out competition and is turned into a monster in the eyes of the public.

6. Casual guild increases numbers to compete against well trained and geared force of top guild.

7. New casual Zerg force wins some raids, loot is spread thin amongst large guild, internal issues lead to bad blood/forum drama internally and between top guilds.

8. Butt-hurt guilds recruit zerg forces to tackle raid targets at any time of day and cock-block other guilds. Serious bad blood created/ forum drama ensues.

9. 3rd and 4th raid guilds start to emerge, Play nice and fair preached on all mediums, in all ways, at all times. Top guilds worked too hard earning there loots to give freely, made to look like more of a monster.

Long story short, wiping the server/creating a new server/murdering TMO members irl is not going to change the end game of EQ. You could wipe this server 100 times and be right back in this same position with a different set of names and faces doing the exact same shit, every time. So enjoy it the way it is, cause this is the only server you will ever get. If you can't enjoy it like it is, then quit, Thats what i did and I was IN the top guild.

Asher
06-27-2012, 01:46 PM
1. New server starts, people make friends as they all level together.

2. Serious time investors start to outpace the majority of the server, become better at doing more with less, a guild is formed of serious players.

3. up and commers (people who can play a lot) are recruited into guild and shown the "how to" guide for raiding.

4. This guild trivializes raid content, server doesn't care because they are not raid-ready yet as a majority. No drama...yet

5. casual players catch up and want pixels, current top guild that is raid-trained beats out competition and is turned into a monster in the eyes of the public.

6. Casual guild increases numbers to compete against well trained and geared force of top guild.

7. New casual Zerg force wins some raids, loot is spread thin amongst large guild, internal issues lead to bad blood/forum drama internally and between top guilds.

8. Butt-hurt guilds recruit zerg forces to tackle raid targets at any time of day and cock-block other guilds. Serious bad blood created/ forum drama ensues.

9. 3rd and 4th raid guilds start to emerge, Play nice and fair preached on all mediums, in all ways, at all times. Top guilds worked too hard earning there loots to give freely, made to look like more of a monster.

Long story short, wiping the server/creating a new server/murdering TMO members irl is not going to change the end game of EQ. You could wipe this server 100 times and be right back in this same position with a different set of names and faces doing the exact same shit, every time. So enjoy it the way it is, cause this is the only server you will ever get. If you can't enjoy it like it is, then quit, Thats what i did and I was IN the top guild.

Hi, welcome to the thread for people to vote on whether they think a server with forced rotations is a good idea.

Have you any input on the subject?

I would think that if one was created it would avoid all the drama you listed.
This server would obviously not be geared towards hardcore gamers like the many of the people in the top guilds. These people would get bored quickly and leave.

Asher

Tr0llb0rn
06-27-2012, 01:52 PM
Hey guys, there is a fairly new server still in the classic period: Red99

come try it out if you are tried of trying to out poopsock TMO or wtf ever the zerg here is called

Currently about 20 people do the raids on red99, are you saying you'd rather continue to sit in caves with TMO waiting to tag a mob then challenge 20 whole people for the exact same content on red?

Try it, you'd like it. XP bonus currently in effect there too. I dont understand why whole guilds do not transfer over there and level up together.

Asher
06-27-2012, 01:56 PM
Hey guys, there is a fairly new server still in the classic period: Red99

come try it out if you are tried of trying to out poopsock TMO or wtf ever the zerg here is called

Currently about 20 people do the raids on red99, are you saying you'd rather continue to sit in caves with TMO waiting to tag a mob then challenge 20 whole people for the exact same content on red?

Try it, you'd like it. XP bonus currently in effect there too. I dont understand why whole guilds do not transfer over there and level up together.

How many times do you people need to be told that people that play on blue are not interested in PvP nor would we be interesting in playing on a server with an average population under 50. Your server will soon die and I hope they use the resources to create a server away for casuals.

Your server failed, move on.

Asher

Tr0llb0rn
06-27-2012, 02:00 PM
How many times do you people need to be told that people that play on blue are not interested in PvP nor would we be interesting in playing on a server with an average population under 50. Your server will soon die and I hope they use the resources to create a server away for casuals.

Your server failed, move on.

Asher

Create a new server for casuals? You have one, blue99. Why are you so interested in yet another blue server anywas? Can't you just buy your toons back from Zamiel or Grim (wtf ever that iskar monks name was you sold to) on eqmac and do the exact same content?

Asher
06-27-2012, 02:03 PM
Create a new server for casuals? You have one, blue99. Why are you so interested in yet another blue server anywas? Can't you just buy your toons back from Zamiel or Grim (wtf ever that iskar monks name was you sold to) on eqmac and do the exact same content?

Zamiel doesn't use my account and I have no clue who Grim is. I like Classic EQ not EQ with PoP and Luclin. While some may feel that this environment is classic, I was on a server during that time period with an agreed upon rotation and I think it was great.

Lets try and stay on topic. You have a forum for your dying server. Please use it.

Asher

Cars
06-27-2012, 02:06 PM
Lets pretend that P99 had rotations from the start. There would be no drama, no race for loot and therefore guilds would practically never split up because they would never fail consistently enough to be so unhappy with there current situation to change it. In this rotation of guilds you have:
Inglorious basterds, Transcendance, Divinity, Fish bait, Gothic Circle, Dark Ascension, TMO, and countless other guilds that would crop up because there is no need for guilds to increase past a certain size.

It would take a year to gear out a raid force of 14 and even that process would have been ridiculously boring. A server with forced rotations could not ever live with a reasonable server population, people would get bored and leave.

Asher
06-27-2012, 02:12 PM
Lets pretend that P99 had rotations from the start. There would be no drama, no race for loot and therefore guilds would practically never split up because they would never fail consistently enough to be so unhappy with there current situation to change it. In this rotation of guilds you have:
Inglorious basterds, Transcendance, Divinity, Fish bait, Gothic Circle, Dark Ascension, TMO, and countless other guilds that would crop up because there is no need for guilds to increase past a certain size.

It would take a year to gear out a raid force of 14 and even that process would have been ridiculously boring. A server with forced rotations could not ever live with a reasonable server population, people would get bored and leave.

I agree that hardcore people would get bored and leave. EQMac, while not classic has a great community and they all share targets. There is no cockblocking and their population was around about what we have when I was there not too long ago. I believe it is still similar.

I know TMO's 2nd and 3rd alts are all dying for Trak BPs and VP gear but it would be amazing if some others had a shot.

Asher

Autotune
06-27-2012, 02:15 PM
I agree that hardcore people would get bored and leave. EQMac, while not classic has a great community and they all share targets. There is no cockblocking and their population was around about what we have when I was there not too long ago. I believe it is still similar.

I know TMO's 2nd and 3rd alts are all dying for Trak BPs and VP gear but it would be amazing if some others had a shot.

Asher

EQmac =/= p99.

for starters, EQmac has a ton more content able to keep the many guilds it has on a rotation.

P99 has never had enough content to satisfy the guilds able to take it on.

Alarti0001
06-27-2012, 02:19 PM
I agree that hardcore people would get bored and leave. EQMac, while not classic has a great community and they all share targets. There is no cockblocking and their population was around about what we have when I was there not too long ago. I believe it is still similar.

I know TMO's 2nd and 3rd alts are all dying for Trak BPs and VP gear but it would be amazing if some others had a shot.

Asher

You guys have a shot... compete~

Asher
06-27-2012, 02:22 PM
EQmac =/= p99.

for starters, EQmac has a ton more content able to keep the many guilds it has on a rotation.

P99 has never had enough content to satisfy the guilds able to take it on.

That is a valid point.

I have a feeling that the community there would still make it work though. They are very friendly and have a completely different mind set. I was a member of the top guild and we often let other guilds clear VT when they wanted, while many of our members still had upgrades there.

Asher

Asher
06-27-2012, 02:24 PM
You guys have a shot... compete~

I cannot dedicate the time to "compete". TMO has won EQ Classic.

Congratulations on clearing raid targets to gear your alts.

Asher

Tr0llb0rn
06-27-2012, 02:31 PM
so blue has a wipe committee too I see

mwatt
06-27-2012, 03:07 PM
If you are not a proponent of the natural order of things as they now exist, there are only two "good" solutions to the bottleneck. Neither one is classic, so heh, there ya go. However, they are either:

1) Instance all major raid encounters.
or
2) Vastly increase the frequency of all major raid encounters.

There are problems associated with both of these solutions, ergo, there is no good solution. The theme here of course is to increase the amount of available raid content. In reality, only Velious will bring some relief. Some.

LizardNecro
06-27-2012, 04:11 PM
If you are not a proponent of the natural order of things as they now exist, there are only two "good" solutions to the bottleneck. Neither one is classic, so heh, there ya go. However, they are either:

1) Instance all major raid encounters.
or
2) Vastly increase the frequency of all major raid encounters.

There are problems associated with both of these solutions, ergo, there is no good solution. The theme here of course is to increase the amount of available raid content. In reality, only Velious will bring some relief. Some.

I'm a fan of the raid token idea proposed by the sleeper emu. Guilds with superior mobilization still get the lions share of encounters, but smaller guilds get *some* content through tokens. It's still worth competing, and smaller guilds get to experience content, just at a much reduced pace.

Fully agree its not classic.

Atmas
06-27-2012, 04:11 PM
That is a valid point.

I have a feeling that the community there would still make it work though. They are very friendly and have a completely different mind set. I was a member of the top guild and we often let other guilds clear VT when they wanted, while many of our members still had upgrades there.

Asher

You are comparing a server that has scheduled repops and three or four more expansions than P99 on the subject of sharing content.

Nilbog pointed out that the end game guilds are in his opinion much larger than the they were on live. Additionally, I will point out that after this much time had elapsed on live I don't think the top 4 guilds on a server were generally in competition for the same mobs. We've got more people, capped for more time, with more knowledge, on the same mobs.

inyane
06-27-2012, 04:26 PM
Lets pretend that P99 had rotations from the start. There would be no drama, no race for loot and therefore guilds would practically never split up because they would never fail consistently enough to be so unhappy with there current situation to change it. In this rotation of guilds you have:
Inglorious basterds, Transcendance, Divinity, Fish bait, Gothic Circle, Dark Ascension, TMO, and countless other guilds that would crop up because there is no need for guilds to increase past a certain size.

It would take a year to gear out a raid force of 14 and even that process would have been ridiculously boring. A server with forced rotations could not ever live with a reasonable server population, people would get bored and leave.

Versus what? Everyone but TMO leaving, kinda like it's been recently?

LizardNecro
06-27-2012, 04:28 PM
You are comparing a server that has scheduled repops and three or four more expansions than P99 on the subject of sharing content.

Nilbog pointed out that the end game guilds are in his opinion much larger than the they were on live. Additionally, I will point out that after this much time had elapsed on live I don't think the top 4 guilds on a server were generally in competition for the same mobs. We've got more people, capped for more time, with more knowledge, on the same mobs.

I agree with Atmas. It's easy to paint the high end eqMac guilds as full of benevolent saints, but they have the same population as us in addition to Velious, Luclin, and PoP.

This allows hard core raiding guilds there like IB to do progression style raiding -- they are on Velious and there's not a whole server of people that want the same thing.

And with PoP content, a lot of epics are frankly obsolete. This reduces demand for the Vanilla and Kunark boss mobs.

I really wish the devs here would consider raid tokens. I love the sleeper server, but they allow boxing (yuck) and plan to expand past velious (yuck). But the raid token idea is extremely compelling. I love the idea of competition, and I love the idea that those who work the hardest get the most. And I love the idea that those who don't work the hardest still get to experience content (but not enough as to trivialize the work of those that work the hardest).

inyane
06-27-2012, 04:31 PM
No, this is the same mistake all the exiled from red99 are making. A wipe would lead to the exact same thing all over again, the only thing different would be you'd have spent another 20 days /played leveling up again.

On competitive servers, the cream always rises to the top. You could release a new server every month and it would be the same people at the top at the end of each month.

This is what makes me laugh. That you guys think you are so super awesome. Such competitors!

Red99 didn't work because the same assholes who love to play on blue and get off by denying other people fun are the same assholes who would corpse camp someone 20 levels under them, because that is there fun.

Zereh
06-27-2012, 04:37 PM
Long story short, wiping the server/creating a new server/murdering TMO members irl is not going to change the end game of EQ. You could wipe this server 100 times and be right back in this same position with a different set of names and faces doing the exact same shit, every time. So enjoy it the way it is, cause this is the only server you will ever get. If you can't enjoy it like it is, then quit, Thats what i did and I was IN the top guild.

Wow. Someone who gets it, it's just too bad the sheeple are all in denial.

Alarti0001
06-27-2012, 05:10 PM
Versus what? Everyone but TMO leaving, kinda like it's been recently?

Velious derp

SamwiseBanned
06-27-2012, 05:13 PM
eqclassic bros lol :D one of these decades

Tasslehofp99
06-27-2012, 05:17 PM
This is going to start a fire in this thread but its my honest answer. I would start over as would like 90% of my guild if a new blue 99 was opened if and only if TMO was not allowed on that server.

Autotune
06-27-2012, 05:19 PM
This is going to start a fire in this thread but its my honest answer. I would start over as would like 90% of my guild if a new blue 99 was opened if and only if TMO was not allowed on that server.

I'd roll TMO3.0 on that server and crush your hopes into the ground.

deneauth
06-27-2012, 05:22 PM
I'd roll TMO3.0 on that server and crush your hopes into the ground.

I am going to set you on fire and poison you because those are a troll's weakness right?

Cars
06-27-2012, 05:31 PM
Versus what? Everyone but TMO leaving, kinda like it's been recently?

I think this server has a tendancy to take all of their problems, attach them to something they dont like, then say it's that things fault for everything that is wrong with the server. In this case it's TMO, before that it was IB and you would be stupid if you actually believed that.

What Sony did to fix the issue of people quitting do to boredom and competing for the same old content was to create new content, the difference is a staff of about 200 peeps vs. Nilbog and a rotating flock of mid-low level programmers (no offense). If content was released on P99 at the same pace it was on live, you guys would never even know TMO existed because you would be an expansion behind them. the problem here is content saturation where the casuals get to end game content with the hardcores and then get pissed when they cant beat them at it.

The truth is that EQ is an older MMO designed in a way that was awesome, but short sighted. The only way for them to keep the masses at bay and not in a constant state of bitterly fighting over content was to just keep making content. Unfortunately P99 can't move that fast (again reasonable) and we get a massive bottleneck right at the end of an expansions timeline which causes all this hatred towards a system that shy of variance, would pretty much work for everyone.

It will be interesting to see the FINAL bottleneck at the end of Velious when this server dies.

Kevlar
06-27-2012, 05:35 PM
Wipe it clean!

Thana8088
06-27-2012, 05:50 PM
This is going to start a fire in this thread but its my honest answer. I would start over as would like 90% of my guild if a new blue 99 was opened if and only if TMO was not allowed on that server.


Just so you know, there ARE lots of places in the world where TMO isn't....

<3

Autotune
06-27-2012, 05:55 PM
I am going to set you on fire and poison you because those are a troll's weakness right?

fire part maybe.

Asher
06-27-2012, 06:05 PM
You are comparing a server that has scheduled repops and three or four more expansions than P99 on the subject of sharing content.

Nilbog pointed out that the end game guilds are in his opinion much larger than the they were on live. Additionally, I will point out that after this much time had elapsed on live I don't think the top 4 guilds on a server were generally in competition for the same mobs. We've got more people, capped for more time, with more knowledge, on the same mobs.

Yes, which is why I said he has a valid point. I still believe the mindset of people there is way different than the people here. There are no hardcore guilds on EQMac.

On any Server guilds tend to be forced into sharing the high end content. On EQMac this is EPs, PoTime and VT. When I played on EQMac they were not yet in PoTime and no other guilds were in the EPs or even close. VT had drops that many of our members needed but when a smaller guild asked if they could hit VT we happily let them do it and we did it the next week or two weeks later.

There was never a rush to cockblock content. When a guild requested to kill a mob that would give them access to the EPs we happily gave them attempts at the mob. You could equate it to how things are on our server if TMO would let other guilds have a shot at mobs.

I don't believe other guilds are interested in "competing" on p99 TMO has successfully run them all off the server. TMO has stated, or at least I believe they have, that they pretty much have all the drops they need from all current content save Phara Dar. Why not just let a guild or two have a shot at Trak or other Kunark dragons? Does your third alt really need to get that Trak BP or CoF?

What else are you trying to prove to us? We all know you are king. We don't care. We just want to have access to the content you currently dominate and have no interest in sharing.

I am not implying you have to share. The rules of the server put you well within your rights to kill every raid target an hour after they spawn. I just think a server with more sharing would be cool. That is all.

Asher

Swish
06-27-2012, 06:08 PM
Unfortunately after a few months you'd probably end up with TMO v2.0 (or with similarities)... new starters would be king of the hill! Woohooo! GREAT!

OK, now you've split the server population either in half or at least screwed up what is already a quiet server. At this point the "race to 60" people have hit 60, and either started raiding (if it's doable with the new server population) or gone back to the old server where they had many more pixels, more cash and didn't have to try as hard.

Meanwhile a raiding guild on Server 2 would probably dominate another, there might be a merger but you'd certainly end up with that Guild 1 screws Guild 2 over again and in 2-3 years... here we are again with another bunch of people asking for a 3rd server because they weren't kings of Server 2.

By then Rogean would probably have to merge Server 2 into Server 1 to keep one looking healthy if Server 3 (realistically the new Server 2) gets launched.

Overall:-

1. P99 Red wasn't a success - I'm sure this will have dented the confidence of the devs.

2. There's not enough of a population to support 2 healthy servers at the moment - and in a year after launch numbers on both could resemble P99 red if people can't get groups due to their level (we struggle here as it is sometimes, don't we?).

3. There's other EQ emu servers on the list (EZserver, The Hidden Forest, etc) so alternatives are already available even if there are differences in content). Perhaps you could try those if you're bored or need a change of scene.

4. Many other niggling issues - 2-boxing, RMTs, GM support (can you clone an Amelinda?), etc.

...feel free to disagree, but I think you'll send P99 to an early grave if a new server opens.

Arclanz
06-27-2012, 06:08 PM
Of course TMO would be against this idea...its not the fun of getting pixels that is fun for a lot of them, it is more fun denying them to other people. Plus, probably the only people left on original P99 would be TMO.

Not sure why you guys are so against others having fun, with all your "go play another game" and "make your own server" blah blah blah Oh, wait, see my first point.

We get it. You guys are the best. You guys put in the time. You guys are the masters of EQ. (at least this non classic, 13 years later server)

Sorry that the other 75% of the server would like to see some more of everquest without dealing with your crap, and sucking you off because you guys were so generous as to leave an actual raid mob up for someone else to kill.

I imagine a fresh server would make the population explode. So many people I know who left, not because they were sick of eq, but they were sick of this entitled attitude that the top people have.

Red99 would still have 15 people on. Current P99 would have 100 people on it. New server would have 800 people on it.

Guess TMO people worried they spent all that real money on something that wouldn't be worth as much with a new server.

Give the players a choice. Those that love batphoning and poopsocking can stay here. Those that just want to game a few hours and have a civil rotation, like many classic servers were, can go to a new home.

Agree with everything 100%

Everyone would abandon original blue 99 if a new server opened, including top (hours-spent) players. Getting the shinies is not fun without others to admire.

I would like a server for 98% of EQ players. Our little raiding / co-op guild on Brell in 99 never had to race to content. If we had the force, we got the content. Luckily, "racing to content" was not popular back then. The 2% of EQ players who think that EQ is some huge competition are in the extreme minority...and they have chased the other 98% of players away from the game.

Sad that (I think) the stewards of P99 (devs/gm's/etc) are in that 2% as well.

Here's my idea for preventing that 2% from chasing away the other 98%.

1. Either give out raid tokens so folks with the force can do the raid once a week
or
2. Make it so each toon can participate in each raid encounter once only. Assuming the target dies, the player cannot engage that mob again ever.

I prefer option 2 or some derivative of it. This would create a vibrant economy. If a player reeaaally wants that raid encounter again, they can spend two days powerleveling another toon. When I played P99 in 2010, powerleveling was rampant.

Asher
06-27-2012, 06:29 PM
Unfortunately after a few months you'd probably end up with TMO v2.0 (or with similarities)... new starters would be king of the hill! Woohooo! GREAT!

OK, now you've split the server population either in half or at least screwed up what is already a quiet server. At this point the "race to 60" people have hit 60, and either started raiding (if it's doable with the new server population) or gone back to the old server where they had many more pixels, more cash and didn't have to try as hard.

Meanwhile a raiding guild on Server 2 would probably dominate another, there might be a merger but you'd certainly end up with that Guild 1 screws Guild 2 over again and in 2-3 years... here we are again with another bunch of people asking for a 3rd server because they weren't kings of Server 2.

By then Rogean would probably have to merge Server 2 into Server 1 to keep one looking healthy if Server 3 (realistically the new Server 2) gets launched.

Overall:-

1. P99 Red wasn't a success - I'm sure this will have dented the confidence of the devs.

2. There's not enough of a population to support 2 healthy servers at the moment - and in a year after launch numbers on both could resemble P99 red if people can't get groups due to their level (we struggle here as it is sometimes, don't we?).

3. There's other EQ emu servers on the list (EZserver, The Hidden Forest, etc) so alternatives are already available even if there are differences in content). Perhaps you could try those if you're bored or need a change of scene.

4. Many other niggling issues - 2-boxing, RMTs, GM support (can you clone an Amelinda?), etc.

...feel free to disagree, but I think you'll send P99 to an early grave if a new server opens.

I think you are missing the point of this thread. The poll does not ask if you would start on a new server it asks if you would start on a new server with forced raid target rotations.

I dont care if TMO, or TMO2.0 would join that server. Every capable guild would have an even shot at taking down mobs. No cockblocking content. No raid target disputes for guides/GMs to have to deal with. Community decides on a rotation schedule. GMs give it their blessing and the server runs with it.

I would rather play on a server with half our population and be able to kill kunark dragons, VP, VS once a month or even once every other month then continue playing on P99 and being excluded from that content because I am not willing to put in the time required to "compete".

250 people is more than enough for me to have fun on a server locked at Kunark or Velious. Who knows, we may even gain people if they can be casual and have a shot at these targets.

Asher

Silentone
06-27-2012, 06:38 PM
I think you are missing the point of this thread. The poll does not ask if you would start on a new server it asks if you would start on a new server with forced raid target rotations.

I dont care if TMO, or TMO2.0 would join that server. Every capable guild would have an even shot at taking down mobs. No cockblocking content. No raid target disputes for guides/GMs to have to deal with. Community decides on a rotation schedule. GMs give it their blessing and the server runs with it.

I would rather play on a server with half our population and be able to kill kunark dragons, VP, VS once a month or even once every other month then continue playing on P99 and being excluded from that content because I am not willing to put in the time required to "compete".

250 people is more than enough for me to have fun on a server locked at Kunark or Velious. Who knows, we may even gain people if they can be casual and have a shot at these targets.

Asher

with the picture you have painted of TMO we would join as well, and make 10 guilds of 10 people in each and take up 10 slots in your rotation. Enjoy

Swish
06-27-2012, 06:40 PM
I think you are missing the point of this thread.

The point of these poll threads is usually... "Hey guys, I've got this great idea to improve my P99 experience".

Opening a new server with "raid condition X" is still splitting a quiet server population to two quieter server populations. You might be happy climbing the ladder to raid, but many of us who play socially and struggle to find a group (group dependant classes such as rogues etc) will have the carpet pulled out from under us. I've made a bunch of characters and only made it as high as 43 in two years - if all the new starters are on Server 2, my characters are going to struggle even further to group. But hey, who cares right...? Gief new server!

The point I'm making is there's relevant consequences behind any change like this that you're overlooking.

Flunklesnarkin
06-27-2012, 06:45 PM
with the picture you have painted of TMO we would join as well, and make 10 guilds of 10 people in each and take up 10 slots in your rotation. Enjoy

again showing the TMO attitude toward the community.


you would do everything you can to cock block others. you are a blight on classic everquest using non-classic raiding techniques and non classic variance to maintain your position.


If all you wanted was to play the game you would be happy with the current server you dominate and not try to harass / undermine a new server dedicated for "carebares" should one ever occur.

Asher
06-27-2012, 06:46 PM
with the picture you have painted of TMO we would join as well, and make 10 guilds of 10 people in each and take up 10 slots in your rotation. Enjoy

Should a situation arise where some asshats decide something like this I am sure the community/Guides/GM could easily track this down and deal with it.

I have not painted any picture of TMO. I am stated what has been demonstrated. I have no problems with TMO or what they do. They are within their rights to do so on this server. I was just curious what other peoples thoughts were.

Asher

Flunklesnarkin
06-27-2012, 06:50 PM
The point of these poll threads is usually... "Hey guys, I've got this great idea to improve my P99 experience".

Opening a new server with "raid condition X" is still splitting a quiet server population to two quieter server populations. You might be happy climbing the ladder to raid, but many of us who play socially and struggle to find a group (group dependant classes such as rogues etc) will have the carpet pulled out from under us. I've made a bunch of characters and only made it as high as 43 in two years - if all the new starters are on Server 2, my characters are going to struggle even further to group. But hey, who cares right...? Gief new server!

The point I'm making is there's relevant consequences behind any change like this that you're overlooking.


The population would increase overall if another server was made although I would prefer some solution to the raid scene be worked out on this one server.

It doesn't seem possible with TMO's attitude toward the community so it may be better to leave the bad apples to their own "competitive" server.


The entire argument of can't do this or that because it isn't classic doesn't even make sense to me at the moment either because the current raid scene isn't classic with variance.

Asher
06-27-2012, 06:52 PM
The point of these poll threads is usually... "Hey guys, I've got this great idea to improve my P99 experience".

Opening a new server with "raid condition X" is still splitting a quiet server population to two quieter server populations. You might be happy climbing the ladder to raid, but many of us who play socially and struggle to find a group (group dependant classes such as rogues etc) will have the carpet pulled out from under us. I've made a bunch of characters and only made it as high as 43 in two years - if all the new starters are on Server 2, my characters are going to struggle even further to group. But hey, who cares right...? Gief new server!

The point I'm making is there's relevant consequences behind any change like this that you're overlooking.

I would be willing to deal with any of these consquences you have mentioned. I think 200 to 300 people is more than enough to have fun on a server. We don't need 1000 people all fighting over a limited number of spawns to have "fun".

Some people like to "compete" and others just like to kill dragons with their group of friends.

No one would be making you do anything. If you are happy on P99 the way it is than I am happy for you. I am glad you are enjoying yourself. I am also having fun but my experience, and I believe the experience of many others could be greatly increased and that was the reason for my poll.

It would also resolve the biggest problem the GMs/Guides have. How many have we lost due to the BS that goes on between guilds?

Just my thoughts.

Asher

Autotune
06-27-2012, 07:05 PM
why wouldn't guilds split and make smaller guilds to gear faster with force rotation. That is exactly what would happen.

Why sit in a guild and wait behind 50 people when you can split into another guild with 15 others and not have to wait behind those people.

Take the amount of guilds capable on p99 and then triple it. That would be a general idea of how many guilds would end up being on a rotation.

Dumbest idea ever.

Flunklesnarkin
06-27-2012, 07:15 PM
why wouldn't guilds split and make smaller guilds to gear faster with force rotation. That is exactly what would happen.

Why sit in a guild and wait behind 50 people when you can split into another guild with 15 others and not have to wait behind those people.

Take the amount of guilds capable on p99 and then triple it. That would be a general idea of how many guilds would end up being on a rotation.

Dumbest idea ever.


Your lack of imagination is astounding.


and you are just nitpicking details of an idea that hasn't even been considered fully yet.


There are multiple ways to manage the issues that you bring up.. and it being a carebear server wouldn't have room for complaints because the competitive server would still be up too.


A few ideas.. would include.

*minimum guild size
*skill requirements (beat a certain boss or survive a certain encounter with limitations like no haste buffs or no hp buffs)
*IP check on characters.. one account one guild

I could go on but those are all details to be debated if the idea gained traction.


It would require more heavy handed enforcement on GM's part.. but I think thats what the carebears are calling for


and before you start nitpicking the ideas i tossed out to limit guild monopolization and try to work out loopholes in them.. I do realize you are trying to derail this thread into ambiguity and fine print.

Asher
06-27-2012, 07:20 PM
why wouldn't guilds split and make smaller guilds to gear faster with force rotation. That is exactly what would happen.

Why sit in a guild and wait behind 50 people when you can split into another guild with 15 others and not have to wait behind those people.

Take the amount of guilds capable on p99 and then triple it. That would be a general idea of how many guilds would end up being on a rotation.

Dumbest idea ever.

I think Funkle said pretty much was I was going to say and as has been mentioned earlier the split would divide the p99 people so we would have less people on our server right? I think 200 to 300 people could comfortably share the content Kunark has to offer and definitely Velious.

It is a dumb idea if you like to "compete" like TMO does. If you are not about competition and are just looking to have fun with your group of friends (Guild) then it is a great idea.

I am sure P99 in its current form will still have some people for TMO to e-peen wave with.

Asher

Autotune
06-27-2012, 07:22 PM
Your lack of imagination is astounding.


and you are just nitpicking details of an idea that hasn't even been considered fully yet.


There are multiple ways to manage the issues that you bring up.. and it being a carebear server wouldn't have room for complaints because the competitive server would still be up too.


A few ideas.. would include.

*minimum guild size
*skill requirements (beat a certain boss or survive a certain encounter with limitations like no haste buffs or no hp buffs)
*IP check on characters.. one account one guild

I could go on but those are all details to be debated if the idea gained traction.


It would require more heavy handed enforcement on GM's part.. but I think thats what the carebears are calling for


and before you start nitpicking the ideas i tossed out to limit guild monopolization and try to work out loopholes in them.. I do realize you are trying to derail this thread into ambiguity and fine print.

So more GM involvement is your answer. (aside from the skill part, but very few targets require numbers especially if given hours to engage)

I'm not trying to derail anything, I am flat out saying the rotation idea is stupid and not only because the server staff already said it wouldn't happen.

Flunklesnarkin
06-27-2012, 07:27 PM
So more GM involvement is your answer. (aside from the skill part, but very few targets require numbers especially if given hours to engage)

I'm not trying to derail anything, I am flat out saying the rotation idea is stupid and not only because the server staff already said it wouldn't happen.

More GM involvement would make sense to me.


the competitive "TMO" server can have no gm involvement beyond hacking / exploits enforcement


and the carebear server can enforce rainbows and unicorns rules


I don't see the problem with that.. instead of "competitive" raid guilds complaining about the inconsistent GM rulings they could have the free for all they claim to want


and the casuals can be happy seeing endgame content with an enforced progression that is monitored by the guilds involved.

I'm not saying GM's have to watch every kill.. i'm sure casual friendly guilds are capable of policing themselves.. and reporting violations of clearcut progression rules to be handled if the issue arises.

Autotune
06-27-2012, 07:31 PM
More GM involvement would make sense to me.



I don't see the problem with that..
and the casuals can be happy seeing endgame content with an enforced progression that is monitored by the guilds involved.

I'm not saying GM's have to watch every kill.. i'm sure casual friendly guilds are capable of policing themselves.. and reporting violations of clearcut progression rules to be handled if the issue arises.

So now you have around 10-20 guilds that have 15-30 members each that need all of their members IP checked across all the other guilds. Not to mention that each new member would also need to be cross referenced.

Each guild would also have to be counted for members by GMs and checked periodically.

Then you as a player base would have to watch guilds for buffs to test a guild's "skill"? Or would you require a GM to do this for you as well?

Seems like you guys want someone else to solve all your problems.

Tasslehofp99
06-27-2012, 07:36 PM
All of these threads come down to the same thing: TMO and their 200 members ruining project1999 for the rest of us. Put it this way, if TMO wasnt on the server a rotation wouldn't be needed. Nor would there be a need for more GM intervention, all of the servers drama stems from TMO's attitude/tactics. You guys can call it what you want or try and spin the argument any way you want but the fact of the matter is Project1999 would be better without you all.

Flunklesnarkin
06-27-2012, 07:39 PM
So now you have around 10-20 guilds that have 15-30 members each that need all of their members IP checked across all the other guilds. Not to mention that each new member would also need to be cross referenced.

Each guild would also have to be counted for members by GMs and checked periodically.

Then you as a player base would have to watch guilds for buffs to test a guild's "skill"? Or would you require a GM to do this for you as well?

Seems like you guys want someone else to solve all your problems.


as i said.. community enforced.. gm's don't have to protect against every contingency.. just clean up after and ban the offenders or move them to the competitive server.


you are viewing everything through the lens of a cutthroat competitor.. and I'm sure people like that will be found out and dealt with eventually.


the point isnt to stop every infraction from ever occurring.. its to manage them and heavy handedly enforce violations.

instead of IP checking every single account... just IP check suspected accounts and if found in violation deal with it then.


the key here is community enforcement with GM's acting on reported violations in the carebare community.. I'm sure there will be issues that arise from time to time.. but people who play like TMO would eventually be moved to competitive server or banned.

Autotune
06-27-2012, 07:45 PM
as i said.. community enforced.. gm's don't have to protect against every contingency.. just clean up after and ban the offenders or move them to the competitive server.


you are viewing everything through the lens of a cutthroat competitor.. and I'm sure people like that will be found out and dealt with eventually.


the point isnt to stop every infraction from ever occurring.. its to manage them and heavy handedly enforce violations.

instead of IP checking every single account... just IP check suspected accounts and if found in violation deal with it then.


the key here is community enforcement with GM's acting on reported violations in the carebare community.. I'm sure there will be issues that arise from time to time.. but people who play like TMO would eventually be moved to competitive server or banned.

More GM involvement isn't the answer and the staff doesn't want it. Your ideas will never happen. Plain and simple. I've tried to show you why, but you seem to think you're right and have the answer. Well, sorry bro, it's wrong.

Harrison
06-27-2012, 07:46 PM
It would be simple if they cross referenced ban lists and actually banned every single player from both servers flagged for 2box, SEQ, MQ, Raid disruption, training, etc. from even accessing the new server.

Magically, we'd have a legit server with very few asshats; Classic EQ the way everyone wants it.

Alarti0001
06-27-2012, 07:54 PM
All of these threads come down to the same thing: TMO and their 200 members ruining project1999 for the rest of us. Put it this way, if TMO wasnt on the server a rotation wouldn't be needed. Nor would there be a need for more GM intervention, all of the servers drama stems from TMO's attitude/tactics. You guys can call it what you want or try and spin the argument any way you want but the fact of the matter is Project1999 would be better without you all.

dont troll in server chat!

if we werent here someone else would fill the gap!

Maze513
06-27-2012, 07:56 PM
Lord knows things where peachy when IB TR ruled the land

Tasslehofp99
06-27-2012, 07:58 PM
dont troll in server chat!

if we werent here someone else would fill the gap!

Like I said, not trolling if its the truth.

Flunklesnarkin
06-27-2012, 08:01 PM
More GM involvement isn't the answer and the staff doesn't want it. Your ideas will never happen. Plain and simple. I've tried to show you why, but you seem to think you're right and have the answer. Well, sorry bro, it's wrong.

The only part we disagree on is that GM involvement would make the game more fun which is where the origin of the two server idea for casuals comes from (and I wasn't the OP of the thread ;p)


but I do agree with you that two servers will never happen (and have stated previously in this thread).. and I have little faith in the management team of the server here to solve the problems of the raid scene.

bottom line.. there will continue to be a mire of complex loosely and inconsistently enforced rules that don't strike at the root of the problem here.

Non-classic raid techniques, non-classic batphones, and non-classic strategic accounts placed all throughout the game. all of this combined with a slower than live development and TMO attitude on what is fun (cockblocking others) leads to a thread like this.. which is going to go no where ultimately.


not to turn off new people from the game.. give it a go level up.. but I'd avoid the raid scene entirely or play a new game once you get there.

Maze513
06-27-2012, 08:05 PM
.. give it a go level up.. but I'd avoid the raid scene entirely or play a new game once you get there.

take ones own advice..

Autotune
06-27-2012, 08:10 PM
The only part we disagree on is that GM involvement would make the game more fun which is where the origin of the two server idea for casuals comes from (and I wasn't the OP of the thread ;p)


but I do agree with you that two servers will never happen (and have stated previously in this thread).. and I have little faith in the management team of the server here to solve the problems of the raid scene.

bottom line.. there will continue to be a mire of complex loosely and inconsistently enforced rules that don't strike at the root of the problem here.

Non-classic raid techniques, non-classic batphones, and non-classic strategic accounts placed all throughout the game. all of this combined with a slower than live development and TMO attitude on what is fun (cockblocking others) leads to a thread like this.. which is going to go no where ultimately.


not to turn off new people from the game.. give it a go level up.. but I'd avoid the raid scene entirely or play a new game once you get there.

The server will solve itself if they ever get around to changing the spawns to a more classic nature and do repops. The longer they waste not doing anything the worst things will get, but changing the spawns to keep all the targets spawning really close together has been viewed as a problem solver ( for the most part ).

I can not fathom why this hasn't been implemented when it has been brought up for months and months now (at least 6months) by multiple people in every thread ever about fixing the raid scene.

I am definitely not saying that the current setup is the answer, but I know for a fact that rotations will not solve problems (especially for the GMs).

Splorf22
06-27-2012, 08:18 PM
Once again, there are two types of people on this server.

Group A is here to simply see most of the content that they never got to see on Live. I'd say this is about 80% of the playerbase, mostly in guilds like Acyrid, Divinity, and quite a bit of BDA. Probably over half of VD was like this.

Group B is here to have better equipment, be 'uber', and 'dominate' the server. I'd say this is about 20% of the playerbase, with most of them in TMO, or ex IB, but there are some in BDA. VD certainly had a core that thought this way, for example Botnet.

But here is the rub: it is physically impossible to satisfy both groups. Group B's enjoyment of the game depends on being better and otherwise outplaying Group A. Meanwhile everyone in group A (the vast majority of the server) would simply cheer if everyone in B left because they would finally be able to actually see some content without having to go nuts tracking/batphoning etc. Obviously it would take years to gear up all these casuals, but most wouldn't care.

And this leads us to the final point: Currently the raid rules on the server favor Group B 100%. A group of players who batphone/poopsock/track/train etc can totally deny Group A from seeing any content or getting any items at all. So all these proposals are simply Group A trying to change the raid rules. A fixed rotation obviously is a set of raid rules that 100% favor group A. The willingness of TMO players to play 4x as much per day is irrelevant, and they get exactly the same gear. And this is why you guys are all raging at the thought of a rotation.

Which is why we need linked respawns, which are a balance between A and B. B gets a bit more than their fair share of of raid items owing to their great experience/gear/whatever, but A isn't totally denied seeing the content like it is now. This is what I have been ranting about for months now on these boards, and with a little luck Nilbog and Rogean are going to implement it based on what I have seen. Which makes me actually want to play in the raid scene a bit.

/thread except for sperglord a/b terminology imo

mwatt
06-27-2012, 08:27 PM
Once again, there are two types of people on this server.

Group A is here to simply see most of the content that they never got to see on Live. I'd say this is about 80% of the playerbase, mostly in guilds like Acyrid, Divinity, and quite a bit of BDA. Probably over half of VD was like this.

Group B is here to have better equipment, be 'uber', and 'dominate' the server. I'd say this is about 20% of the playerbase, with most of them in TMO, or ex IB, but there are some in BDA. VD certainly had a core that thought this way, for example Botnet.

But here is the rub: it is physically impossible to satisfy both groups. Group B's enjoyment of the game depends on being better and otherwise outplaying Group A. Meanwhile everyone in group A (the vast majority of the server) would simply cheer if everyone in B left because they would finally be able to actually see some content without having to go nuts tracking/batphoning etc. Obviously it would take years to gear up all these casuals, but most wouldn't care.

And this leads us to the final point: Currently the raid rules on the server favor Group B 100%. A group of players who batphone/poopsock/track/train etc can totally deny Group A from seeing any content or getting any items at all. So all these proposals are simply Group A trying to change the raid rules. A fixed rotation obviously is a set of raid rules that 100% favor group A. The willingness of TMO players to play 4x as much per day is irrelevant, and they get exactly the same gear. And this is why you guys are all raging at the thought of a rotation.

Which is why we need linked respawns, which are a balance between A and B. B gets a bit more than their fair share of of raid items owing to their great experience/gear/whatever, but A isn't totally denied seeing the content like it is now. This is what I have been ranting about for months now on these boards, and with a little luck Nilbog and Rogean are going to implement it based on what I have seen. Which makes me actually want to play in the raid scene a bit.

/thread except for sperglord a/b terminology imo

Nice post. Thoughtful and coherent. I'm not sure I agree with your final point however. On the other hand, I'm not completely sure I don't either. It is not clear to me what "linked spawns" means. It is also a revelation to me that Nil and Rog would consider something like this - whatever it is.

Tasslehofp99
06-27-2012, 08:42 PM
Just having "fake" patch days where the server reset and it was a full repop and changing the variance to be shorter on mobs as well would make a huge difference, I think. Some other good suggestions were the "FTE zone wide shout" or whatever. A rotation would never work although it seemed to for ragefire so who knows maybe, but they would likely dissolve very quickley and result in more drama. Just give the smaller guilds a fair shot and I bet you will see a lot less of these posts.

Autotune
06-27-2012, 08:47 PM
Just having "fake" patch days where the server reset and it was a full repop and changing the variance to be shorter on mobs as well would make a huge difference, I think. Some other good suggestions were the "FTE zone wide shout" or whatever. A rotation would never work although it seemed to for ragefire so who knows maybe, but they would likely dissolve very quickley and result in more drama. Just give the smaller guilds a fair shot and I bet you will see a lot less of these posts.

ragefire was a very fast respawn which helped greatly.

Danyelle
06-27-2012, 09:44 PM
A rotation would never work although it seemed to for ragefire so who knows maybe, but they would likely dissolve very quickley and result in more drama. Just give the smaller guilds a fair shot and I bet you will see a lot less of these posts.

Rotations aren't intended to be permanent anyway. It has been, and always will be, in effect only so long as the guilds that partake in it are in agreement. It's a form of diplomacy between guilds and a method of making content more fair for other players who cannot devote their time to Everquest, not a server feature enforced by GMs.

somnia
06-27-2012, 10:51 PM
Has there been a thread in the recent future that hasn't been about TMO ruining everybody's fun? /sarcasm off

What's wrong with 2 servers? One hardcore server, one casual server. Oh no, cry the population will be split and the world will be empty. News flash, the world is already empty and top heavy to boot.

TMO doesn't want 2 servers because their entire fun stems from demonstrating to other people that they possess this thing called "skill" which, when decomposed to its comprising parts, equates to time spent organizing, tracking, and having dedicated members from all time zones who will answer the batphone.

In all honesty a 2nd server with a casual ruleset would increases game enjoyment for the vast majority of players on the P1999. The only people who would really lose with a 2nd server is TMO because they can't demonstrating this thing they call "skill" to the "newbs".

Why are these forums so damn entertaining.

Autotune
06-28-2012, 12:06 AM
Has there been a thread in the recent future that hasn't been about TMO ruining everybody's fun? /sarcasm off

What's wrong with 2 servers? One hardcore server, one casual server. Oh no, cry the population will be split and the world will be empty. News flash, the world is already empty and top heavy to boot.

TMO doesn't want 2 servers because their entire fun stems from demonstrating to other people that they possess this thing called "skill" which, when decomposed to its comprising parts, equates to time spent organizing, tracking, and having dedicated members from all time zones who will answer the batphone.

In all honesty a 2nd server with a casual ruleset would increases game enjoyment for the vast majority of players on the P1999. The only people who would really lose with a 2nd server is TMO because they can't demonstrating this thing they call "skill" to the "newbs".

Why are these forums so damn entertaining.

GMs don't want a 3rd server that involves more of their time. Staff are all in TMO, so I guess you're kinda correct.

inyane
06-28-2012, 12:12 AM
I think the only server that would be in danger of a very low population would be the current blue99.

I would be willing to bet that new carebear99 would be full of people. I'd drop my level 60 with epic here in a heartbeat to start over on the new server. And I know many others would as well.

Just a chance to dump a server with all the duped and exploited plat and items would be fantastic.

I would assume the goal of the dev team is to not only recreate classic everquest, but I would also assume they would like the players who are here to have fun and enjoy themselves, yes? It would appear to me that a large majority of the server would like to be casual, yet still experience the game. The whole game, not just the game TMO lets us see.

Yet all TMO has to say to this majority of players is...tough. Too bad. Compete. Cry more. Put in the time.

And the rest of us are saying...I don't want to wake up at 3am. I don't want to poopsock my night away. I do not with to "compete" when this is the definition of competing.

formallydickman
06-28-2012, 12:13 AM
If Jesus came back as a reptilian biped, would you still worship him?? << As likely as a reset/new p99 server.

Autotune
06-28-2012, 12:27 AM
And the rest of us are saying...I don't want to wake up at 3am. I don't want to poopsock my night away. I do not with to "compete" when this is the definition of competing.

luckily for you, you don't have to.

Aren't you happy?

Asedo
06-28-2012, 01:15 AM
Reason for a new server that has rotation:

1) Red server is dead replace it.

2) TMO refuses to let any progress. Considering they have every attention to destory and push any guild off server that goes after any new content or tries to compete. This happened with multiple guilds. Hopefully BDA isn't the new target but is seeming that way after they went after a few mobs.

3) Population on the server starting friday will most likely drop back down. So you could figure about 300+ people that only play when TMO can't raid would move over. That is a good junk for a server to start on.

4) Considering 90% of the server is willing to share mobs it would work. Look at the past 2 weeks on the server went well and bet GMs have been bored. Which means would need less gms then current server.

Basically let TMO have their FFA server and do another with rotation. Once they push every last person off the current server they will be crying to move over. The server has been peaceful and fun for tons of people over 2 weeks. All i have heard is how people are dreading TMO coming back. So i think doing a player transfer to a new blue with forced rotation would be great for the P99 community. They don't want it to happen cause would prove that they way they act towards all other guilds is the problem for the slow death of server. So i pray it happens or TMO decides to play nice and do rotation so all guilds can have a chance at pixels they never get to really see.

Autotune
06-28-2012, 01:29 AM
Reason for a new server that has rotation:

1) Red server is dead replace it.

2) TMO refuses to let any progress. Considering they have every attention to destory and push any guild off server that goes after any new content or tries to compete. This happened with multiple guilds. Hopefully BDA isn't the new target but is seeming that way after they went after a few mobs.

3) Population on the server starting friday will most likely drop back down. So you could figure about 300+ people that only play when TMO can't raid would move over. That is a good junk for a server to start on.

4) Considering 90% of the server is willing to share mobs it would work. Look at the past 2 weeks on the server went well and bet GMs have been bored. Which means would need less gms then current server.

Basically let TMO have their FFA server and do another with rotation. Once they push every last person off the current server they will be crying to move over. The server has been peaceful and fun for tons of people over 2 weeks. All i have heard is how people are dreading TMO coming back. So i think doing a player transfer to a new blue with forced rotation would be great for the P99 community. They don't want it to happen cause would prove that they way they act towards all other guilds is the problem for the slow death of server. So i pray it happens or TMO decides to play nice and do rotation so all guilds can have a chance at pixels they never get to really see.

TMO is not going to do a rotation. Also "people are dreading TMO coming back." hahahahahhahahaha

Heebee
06-28-2012, 01:32 AM
pixels

I like pixels.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2nw0q6r.png

Autotune
06-28-2012, 01:34 AM
I like pixels.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2nw0q6r.png
I like pixels.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0x1yt9lv81qbdwr8o1_1280.jpg

somnia
06-28-2012, 01:35 AM
Reason for a new server that has rotation:

1) Red server is dead replace it.

2) TMO refuses to let any progress. Considering they have every attention to destory and push any guild off server that goes after any new content or tries to compete. This happened with multiple guilds. Hopefully BDA isn't the new target but is seeming that way after they went after a few mobs.

3) Population on the server starting friday will most likely drop back down. So you could figure about 300+ people that only play when TMO can't raid would move over. That is a good junk for a server to start on.

4) Considering 90% of the server is willing to share mobs it would work. Look at the past 2 weeks on the server went well and bet GMs have been bored. Which means would need less gms then current server.

Basically let TMO have their FFA server and do another with rotation. Once they push every last person off the current server they will be crying to move over. The server has been peaceful and fun for tons of people over 2 weeks. All i have heard is how people are dreading TMO coming back. So i think doing a player transfer to a new blue with forced rotation would be great for the P99 community. They don't want it to happen cause would prove that they way they act towards all other guilds is the problem for the slow death of server. So i pray it happens or TMO decides to play nice and do rotation so all guilds can have a chance at pixels they never get to really see.

It's indisputable that the server as a whole would be better off without TMO. Their recent raid suspension only serves as evidence of this fact. Too bad the GMs/Devs haven't done anything to address the problems of the raid scene and are unlikely to do anything in the near future. Prediction? TMO returns and everything goes back to shit and we get more threads about how TMO ruins everything - ad infinitum.

Easy fix. Ignore cries about fragmenting population - population would ultimately be healthier with a casual-only server as demonstrated by rise in population numbers since TMO's suspension. Get rid of P1999 Red - it's a fail server with only 1 guild and no PvP - what's the point of that server again?

Of course none of this will ever happen but it's nevertheless enjoyable to beat the dead horse past the point of a bloody pulp.

casdegere
06-28-2012, 07:34 AM
And this leads us to the final point: Currently the raid rules on the server favor Group B 100%. A group of players who batphone/poopsock/track/train etc can totally deny Group A from seeing any content or getting any items at all. So all these proposals are simply Group A trying to change the raid rules. A fixed rotation obviously is a set of raid rules that 100% favor group A. The willingness of TMO players to play 4x as much per day is irrelevant, and they get exactly the same gear. And this is why you guys are all raging at the thought of a rotation.

^This. I continue to not understand why the minority rules here. On some...MOST servers, guilds agreed for a rotation. The difference here is that TMO will never agree to anything. In the spirit of classic we should have a rotation, GM imposed or not.

Ravager
06-28-2012, 08:03 AM
why wouldn't guilds split and make smaller guilds to gear faster with force rotation. That is exactly what would happen.

Why sit in a guild and wait behind 50 people when you can split into another guild with 15 others and not have to wait behind those people.

Take the amount of guilds capable on p99 and then triple it. That would be a general idea of how many guilds would end up being on a rotation.

Dumbest idea ever.

My feeling is only TMO would go to these lengths.

Xadion
06-28-2012, 08:16 AM
can I get more of those sexy pixle pics please- I am almost finished.


as for TMO being the bane of the server- lulz you people chose the stupidest angel to attack TMO on- but rule lawyering has failed vs DA and TMO- so the "IB"-pr machine shall attach from a different angel- putting the hitler and blaming us TMO for the server's problems and purring us in raid suspension camps saying SEE SEE its better!

Alarti0001
06-28-2012, 08:32 AM
It's indisputable that the server as a whole would be better off without TMO. Their recent raid suspension only serves as evidence of this fact. Too bad the GMs/Devs haven't done anything to address the problems of the raid scene and are unlikely to do anything in the near future. Prediction? TMO returns and everything goes back to shit and we get more threads about how TMO ruins everything - ad infinitum.

Easy fix. Ignore cries about fragmenting population - population would ultimately be healthier with a casual-only server as demonstrated by rise in population numbers since TMO's suspension. Get rid of P1999 Red - it's a fail server with only 1 guild and no PvP - what's the point of that server again?

Of course none of this will ever happen but it's nevertheless enjoyable to beat the dead horse past the point of a bloody pulp.


This guy played on the server for like 3 weeks, and all he did from level 1-51 was troll TMO. If you are taking his post as well thought out and benevolent you are seriously misguided

Atmas
06-28-2012, 10:11 AM
It's indisputable that the server as a whole would be better off without TMO. Their recent raid suspension only serves as evidence of this fact. Too bad the GMs/Devs haven't done anything to address the problems of the raid scene and are unlikely to do anything in the near future. Prediction? TMO returns and everything goes back to shit and we get more threads about how TMO ruins everything - ad infinitum.

Easy fix. Ignore cries about fragmenting population - population would ultimately be healthier with a casual-only server as demonstrated by rise in population numbers since TMO's suspension. Get rid of P1999 Red - it's a fail server with only 1 guild and no PvP - what's the point of that server again?

Of course none of this will ever happen but it's nevertheless enjoyable to beat the dead horse past the point of a bloody pulp.

After reading several of your posts it seems like you just like to make claims based on nothing more than your opinions. Sever population has gone up slightly and is easily accounted for by new people to the server (not yet raiders), IB logging into the server, people on suspension spending more time in the game on alts, and maybe a handful of people logging on for open raids. Even if all of the change in population was due to the suspension it wouldn't help the anti-TMO argument much because the difference is pretty miniscule. Numbers really don't look very different from two weeks ago, maybe a 4-5% difference. Not like the post Kunark numbers which were several hundred more.

Tr0llb0rn
06-28-2012, 11:37 AM
No need for another blue server. If you guys do not like TMO out poopsocking you on targets, come to the red server.

Would you rather out camp 100 TMO, or battle 20 Nihilum for raid targets?

/no brainer

A wipe is NEVER going to happen

A second blue server is NEVER going to happen (the one that exists now is already too low pop as is)

You have your options, pick your poison: camp it up with TMO, or do battle with Nihilum. I know which sounds more fun to me...

Autotune
06-28-2012, 12:49 PM
My feeling is only TMO would go to these lengths.

your feelings mean nothing. It is exactly what would happen and most of you would never realize it.

Asher
06-28-2012, 01:12 PM
your feelings mean nothing. It is exactly what would happen and most of you would never realize it.

Yea you are right. You could hide it from the community and the GMs forever. No whistle blower would ever spill the beans.


/sarcasm off

Asher

Autotune
06-28-2012, 01:29 PM
Yea you are right. You could hide it from the community and the GMs forever. No whistle blower would ever spill the beans.


/sarcasm off

Asher

GMs would never find out because they wouldn't get involved. What part of no more GM involvement do you not understand?

Asher
06-28-2012, 01:35 PM
GMs would never find out because they wouldn't get involved. What part of no more GM involvement do you not understand?

This is a hypothetical server. I don't care if you don't think there will be GM involvement. There is no server yet. Who is to say what will happen in the future?

And even if your assumption was correct you don't think any old TMO members would let it slip? What about a mole from another guild joining?

Keep on making excuses.

Asher

Autotune
06-28-2012, 01:38 PM
This is a hypothetical server. I don't care if you don't think there will be GM involvement. There is no server yet. Who is to say what will happen in the future?

And even if your assumption was correct you don't think any old TMO members would let it slip? What about a mole from another guild joining?

Keep on making excuses.

Asher

So your hypothetical server that will never exist, gotcha. Well as long as we are making up stuff that will never happen, I am going to become the new guild management guide of that server and never release any information and let you all imagine everything is okay.

Gwence
06-28-2012, 01:58 PM
I am 100% for having an enforced rotation on this server, mainly because it would make so many TMO people mad lol.

I volunteer to oversee it as well.

Splorf22
06-28-2012, 02:06 PM
I have to laugh at all the red guys desperately pleading for more people after having busily griefed off 300 players.

Atmas
06-28-2012, 02:11 PM
I have to laugh at all the red guys desperately pleading for more people after having busily griefed off 300 players.

I think most of the big time griefers are gone but not many are interested in starting over on a PvP server where there are already so many established players. Personally I would roll a toon there if it had a different rule set.

Nietche
06-28-2012, 02:12 PM
Your lack of imagination is astounding.


and you are just nitpicking details of an idea that hasn't even been considered fully yet.


There are multiple ways to manage the issues that you bring up.. and it being a carebear server wouldn't have room for complaints because the competitive server would still be up too.


A few ideas.. would include.

*minimum guild size
*skill requirements (beat a certain boss or survive a certain encounter with limitations like no haste buffs or no hp buffs)
*IP check on characters.. one account one guild

I could go on but those are all details to be debated if the idea gained traction.


It would require more heavy handed enforcement on GM's part.. but I think thats what the carebears are calling for


and before you start nitpicking the ideas i tossed out to limit guild monopolization and try to work out loopholes in them.. I do realize you are trying to derail this thread into ambiguity and fine print.

No.

1. Minimum guild size: Any main can make a billion alts. See number 3.

2. Skill requirements: any top end guild with the bare minimum in numbers can beat a dragon. Without having to race, even fewer people are needed.

3. IP account check: Fine. Is there a maximum number of accounts a single person can have?

Forced rotations is asking for an instanced World of Warcraft scenario except far worse and far more boring as any one guild will be waiting forever to kill a dragon in 30 seconds only to wait a few weeks to kill another dragon in 30 seconds.

Carebears may think they want this kind of server, but they don't. Carebears want the same thing as hardcores. They just want it handed to them on a silver platter, and at relatively the same rate as hardcores.

What carebears also need to consider is that carebear, casual guilds do not operate well without the hard core Raid Leaders (RL) in evidence. I was in BDA before TMO, and I must say that without Chest on raids as RL, BDA was not so shiny in execution, meaning that if carebears truly want a server devoted to only carebears, your progression to top end guild status may never happen. Be careful what you wish for.

Atmas
06-28-2012, 02:14 PM
I am 100% for having an enforced rotation on this server, mainly because it would make so many TMO people mad lol.

I volunteer to oversee it as well.

Here is a post to refernce the next time you claim that TMO kills mobs solely for antagonizing other players. Seems to be a bit of projectionism in there.

Nietche
06-28-2012, 02:31 PM
I think this server has a tendancy to take all of their problems, attach them to something they dont like, then say it's that things fault for everything that is wrong with the server. In this case it's TMO, before that it was IB and you would be stupid if you actually believed that.

The truth is that EQ is an older MMO designed in a way that was awesome, but short sighted. The only way for them to keep the masses at bay and not in a constant state of bitterly fighting over content was to just keep making content. Unfortunately P99 can't move that fast (again reasonable) and we get a massive bottleneck right at the end of an expansions timeline which causes all this hatred towards a system that shy of variance, would pretty much work for everyone.

Also, as someone already stated in this thread, if p99 was pushing out content at the same rate as Verant (and later Sony), no one on this server would know who TMO was as they would already be half an expansion ahead of everyone else.

Gwence
06-28-2012, 03:31 PM
you guys have the memory span of like 5 minutes

if this server opened it's content at a normal pace, ib would've been done with velious before TMO had even killed trakanon lol

Gwence
06-28-2012, 03:34 PM
tmo being the "top guild" on this server right now is the same as being a self-proclaimed leader of some 3rd world country in africa that no one has heard of.

Alarti0001
06-28-2012, 03:41 PM
you guys have the memory span of like 5 minutes

if this server opened it's content at a normal pace, ib would've been done with velious before TMO had even killed trakanon lol

So you are reinforcing the fact that you could be number one if TMO wasnt here. Thanks

Flunklesnarkin
06-28-2012, 03:44 PM
No.

1. Minimum guild size: Any main can make a billion alts. See number 3.

2. Skill requirements: any top end guild with the bare minimum in numbers can beat a dragon. Without having to race, even fewer people are needed.

3. IP account check: Fine. Is there a maximum number of accounts a single person can have?

Forced rotations is asking for an instanced World of Warcraft scenario except far worse and far more boring as any one guild will be waiting forever to kill a dragon in 30 seconds only to wait a few weeks to kill another dragon in 30 seconds.

Carebears may think they want this kind of server, but they don't. Carebears want the same thing as hardcores. They just want it handed to them on a silver platter, and at relatively the same rate as hardcores.

What carebears also need to consider is that carebear, casual guilds do not operate well without the hard core Raid Leaders (RL) in evidence. I was in BDA before TMO, and I must say that without Chest on raids as RL, BDA was not so shiny in execution, meaning that if carebears truly want a server devoted to only carebears, your progression to top end guild status may never happen. Be careful what you wish for.


combine your points 1 and 3 and you will see what I mean (it won't matter if you have a billion alts if they are all in one guild)


but the point here isn't that I have all the answers or that the server would fail if it was made.


the point here is this is something most carebears want.. and the hardcore raiders don't want.


thats why you make one server with no gm enforcement at all ( a dream come true for hardcore raiders yes?)


and one server for casuals/carebears with a community decided set of rules.. community monitored.. then if issues arise they are reported and dealt with by staff. (almost like a democracy with a parliament of guilds?)


I don't see much of an increase in workload for gm's either as they wouldn't have to get involved in the competitive server except for stopping hacking or creating a guild.

I bet you that IB and VD would even comeback to a no gm involvement server to compete against TMO.. wouldn't you guys love the thrill of actual competition again?

I'm sure there are tons of casuals from divinity,bda,acyrid, whatever guild who would be willing to assist in any capacity as guide or gm.


many others have stated it in the thread though.. casuals want to be able to experience content.. not have to deal with guilds whose entire game plan is to prevent others from experiencing content to maintain their ego and "status".

Autotune
06-28-2012, 03:49 PM
you guys have the memory span of like 5 minutes

if this server opened it's content at a normal pace, ib would've been done with velious before TMO had even killed trakanon lol

TMO did in 5 months what IB could never do. If content came out at a normal pace, IB would have been run off all the same.

Face it, your guild was destined to lose to TMO.

BigSlip
06-28-2012, 03:51 PM
worst thread ever?

Gwence
06-28-2012, 04:25 PM
what ib could never do?? we did everything you did, and did it first and better haha

how can you be this dense?

and how am I re-inforcing your ignorant belief, vp wasn't open on time or we would've been done with it by the time you all were ready to go in, likewise if velious was opened 1yr after kunark (normal timeline) we would've been 75% done before u attempt your first lodizal lol

your delusions that you are the better guild because we chose to go progress somewhere else continues to be laughable. And it's blatantly obvious you're just mad you didn't think of it first. EQ has always been a game of PVE progression and which guilds are strong enough to set themselves apart on that front. Never has it been a game of which guild can poopsock with the largest socks and which can grief others the best. IB has always had the upper hand, just read the server first thread

"but wahhawahhawhh we weren't raiding till just recently, once you guys had already killed everything 50+ times"... it's a fucking lame excuse cry more - once it was known vp wasnt opening on time (which would've been expansion launch) ib had half it's motivation and still owned TMO in every way possible. And now we're owning velious while you all are raid suspended lol.

there is not a single person on this server with a shred of intelligence that would put tmo in the same league as ib lol, it's like comparing a lion to a fucking cockroach.

only thing tmo stands out in is how stupid all there forum warriors make them look on a daily basis.

BigSlip
06-28-2012, 04:26 PM
what ib could never do?? we did everything you did, and did it first and better haha

how can you be this dense?

and how am I re-inforcing your ignorant belief, vp wasn't open on time or we would've been done with it by the time you all were ready to go in, likewise if velious was opened 1yr after kunark (normal timeline) we would've been 75% done before u attempt your first lodizal lol

your delusions that you are the better guild because we chose to go progress somewhere else continues to be laughable. And it's blatantly obvious you're just mad you didn't think of it first. EQ has always been a game of PVE progression and which guilds are strong enough to set themselves apart on that front. Never has it been a game of which guild can poopsock with the largest socks and which can grief others the best. IB has always had the upper hand, just read the server first thread

"but wahhawahhawhh we weren't raiding till just recently, once you guys had already killed everything 50+ times"... it's a fucking lame excuse cry more - once it was known vp wasnt opening on time (which would've been expansion launch) ib had half it's motivation and still owned TMO in every way possible. And now we're owning velious while you all are raid suspended lol.

there is not a single person on this server with a shred of intelligence that would put tmo in the same league as ib lol, it's like comparing a lion to a fucking cockroach.

only thing tmo stands out in is how stupid all there forum warriors make them look on a daily basis.



Fucking immersed.


hows eq mac pal?

thats rite eq mac


sounds lovely.

BigSlip
06-28-2012, 04:27 PM
Just wanted to post again, pal, you are immersed to the teeth.


You can take off your viking helmet at the computer honey.

Autotune
06-28-2012, 04:40 PM
what ib could never do?? we did everything you did, and did it first and better haha

how can you be this dense?

and how am I re-inforcing your ignorant belief, vp wasn't open on time or we would've been done with it by the time you all were ready to go in, likewise if velious was opened 1yr after kunark (normal timeline) we would've been 75% done before u attempt your first lodizal lol

your delusions that you are the better guild because we chose to go progress somewhere else continues to be laughable. And it's blatantly obvious you're just mad you didn't think of it first. EQ has always been a game of PVE progression and which guilds are strong enough to set themselves apart on that front. Never has it been a game of which guild can poopsock with the largest socks and which can grief others the best. IB has always had the upper hand, just read the server first thread

"but wahhawahhawhh we weren't raiding till just recently, once you guys had already killed everything 50+ times"... it's a fucking lame excuse cry more - once it was known vp wasnt opening on time (which would've been expansion launch) ib had half it's motivation and still owned TMO in every way possible. And now we're owning velious while you all are raid suspended lol.

there is not a single person on this server with a shred of intelligence that would put tmo in the same league as ib lol, it's like comparing a lion to a fucking cockroach.

only thing tmo stands out in is how stupid all there forum warriors make them look on a daily basis.

IB's only claim to fame is they did stuff when they had no competition, when competition got hot, they gave up plain and simple.

BTW, I cleared all of Velious content in a day on a private server solo, big whoop. Everything is easy when you don't have competition, which apparently is the only way IB can roll. IB = Carebears who cry at the sight of real EQ competition.

Alarti0001
06-28-2012, 04:50 PM
IB's only claim to fame is they did stuff when they had no competition, when competition got hot, they gave up plain and simple.

End scene. Gwence basically said if velious came out before TMO started competeing then IB would have have been #1done in velious. You guys are only #1 if there is no #2,3,4 etc.

BigSlip
06-28-2012, 04:52 PM
yEAH GWENCE TOO FUCKING IMMERSED TO DO MATH

mwatt
06-28-2012, 04:52 PM
IB's only claim to fame is they did stuff when they had no competition, when competition got hot, they gave up plain and simple.

BTW, I cleared all of Velious content in a day on a private server solo, big whoop. Everything is easy when you don't have competition, which apparently is the only way IB can roll. IB = Carebears who cry at the sight of real EQ competition.

Say competition again.

Seriously, the game is supposed be be about players competing against mobs, not players. Your mentality does not seem too far removed from Red. The competition that you seem to be so enamoured of is an outgrowth of poor design, not an intentional pillar of gameplay. You hold it up like it is some sort of sacred cow. That appears to be the game YOU are playing, but it isn't what a lot of us want to play.

Relapse1
06-28-2012, 05:02 PM
IB's only claim to fame is they did stuff when they had no competition, when competition got hot, they gave up plain and simple.

O rlly? they raided up against DA for years which was 1000% better of a guild then TMO ..only reason Tmo even are where they are now was bc of the DA merger. Uthgaard hated IB they still held strong for a long time.

Autotune
06-28-2012, 05:02 PM
Say competition again.

Seriously, the game is supposed be be about players competing against mobs, not players. Your mentality does not seem too far removed from Red. The competition that you seem to be so enamoured of is an outgrowth of poor design, not an intentional pillar of gameplay. You hold it up like it is some sort of sacred cow. That appears to be the game YOU are playing, but it isn't what a lot of us want to play.

If it was all about PvE with no MMO factor, EQ would have all be instanced from the beginning. Seems that it was pretty intentional from the beginning.

How many expansions did they put out before instancing in EQ?

Relapse1
06-28-2012, 05:06 PM
Finished this quest last night... WE STILL GETTIN DEM PIXELS

http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/6249/rszbuckler.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/859/rszbuckler.jpg/)


http://theresistanceguild.com/

Autotune
06-28-2012, 05:07 PM
O rlly? they raided up against DA for years which was 1000% better of a guild then TMO ..only reason Tmo even are where they are now was bc of the DA merger. Uthgaard hated IB they still held strong for a long time.

DA didn't have what IB did - Pocket GMs healing raids with clicks and porting people around. DA got knocked down time and time again with bullshit calls to help IB out and even still DA managed to get a few steps ahead (even with the handicap) only to get knocked down again.

IB piggy backed on GMs, got their comfortable lead in the raid scene, profited off the other guilds fighting for #2 and then, when those guilds joined up, lost their shit and gave up.

Alarti0001
06-28-2012, 05:08 PM
O rlly? they raided up against DA for years which was 1000% better of a guild then TMO ..only reason Tmo even are where they are now was bc of the DA merger. Uthgaard hated IB they still held strong for a long time.

O rly? I think you are forgetting that uthgaard hated everyone he even installed a spy into our guild. Stfu noob go post on a forum of a sever you can actually win at(mac, ezserver etc.) It will never be here.

Relapse1
06-28-2012, 05:12 PM
it has been confirmed content on Eqmac is way more challenging / harder then P99's content. Try harder plz

Asher
06-28-2012, 05:12 PM
So your hypothetical server that will never exist, gotcha.

Those are your words not mine. I don't understand why you feel so threatened.

Asher

Flunklesnarkin
06-28-2012, 05:14 PM
reading the comments on this page makes it clear


that all the "hardcore" raid guilds would be much happier with no GM interference at all.


so why not get rid of the casuals / carebears who want GM rules and put on a new server ;p

Asher
06-28-2012, 05:16 PM
No.

1. Minimum guild size: Any main can make a billion alts. See number 3.

2. Skill requirements: any top end guild with the bare minimum in numbers can beat a dragon. Without having to race, even fewer people are needed.

3. IP account check: Fine. Is there a maximum number of accounts a single person can have?

Forced rotations is asking for an instanced World of Warcraft scenario except far worse and far more boring as any one guild will be waiting forever to kill a dragon in 30 seconds only to wait a few weeks to kill another dragon in 30 seconds.

Carebears may think they want this kind of server, but they don't. Carebears want the same thing as hardcores. They just want it handed to them on a silver platter, and at relatively the same rate as hardcores.

What carebears also need to consider is that carebear, casual guilds do not operate well without the hard core Raid Leaders (RL) in evidence. I was in BDA before TMO, and I must say that without Chest on raids as RL, BDA was not so shiny in execution, meaning that if carebears truly want a server devoted to only carebears, your progression to top end guild status may never happen. Be careful what you wish for.

Why are we still nitpicking ideas on a server that doesn't exist. We are just discussing possibilities. Carebears don't want anything handed to them. TMO may find the waking up at 3am and rushing to a target fun and competitive. Others just want to do raids with their group of friends during a time that is convenient for them to meet up within reason.

TMOs idea of classic EQ was not how Classic EQ was on my server. I am sorry you have such a jaded view.

Asher

Alarti0001
06-28-2012, 05:17 PM
it has been confirmed content on Eqmac is way more challenging / harder then P99's content. Try harder plz

It has been confirmed no content is more challenging than beating TMO.

Not to mention eqmac has access to higher expansions, higher level buffs, aa's and easier combat tables.

Autotune
06-28-2012, 05:18 PM
Those are your words not mine. I don't understand why you feel so threatened.

Asher

Why would I feel threatened by something that has been stated would not happen? Perhaps it is you that feels threatened by facts? If so that is your problem, not mine.

Alarti0001
06-28-2012, 05:19 PM
Why are we still nitpicking ideas on a server that doesn't exist. We are just discussing possibilities. Carebears don't want anything handed to them. TMO may find the waking up at 3am and rushing to a target fun and competitive. Others just want to do raids with their group of friends during a time that is convenient for them to meet up within reason.

TMOs idea of classic EQ was not how Classic EQ was on my server. I am sorry you have such a jaded view.

Asher

You realize mobs spawn at other times than 3am right?

Autotune
06-28-2012, 05:20 PM
It has been confirmed no content is more challenging than beating TMO.

Not to mention eqmac has access to higher expansions, higher level buffs, aa's and easier combat tables.

Yeah, IB(eqmac) is progression locked on content, but not gear/classes/skills it seems. I've seen your beastlords raiding.

Relapse1
06-28-2012, 05:21 PM
It has been confirmed no content is more challenging than beating TMO.

congrats you and Nihilum will be alot alike soon both forever alone with no 1 to show your pixels off 2 but yourselves.

Relapse1
06-28-2012, 05:23 PM
Yeah, IB(eqmac) is progression locked on content, but not gear/classes/skills it seems. I've seen your beastlords raiding.

beastlords are allowed just like they are allowed in the more truer progression guild on the server, Vintage ..... we are allowed to use luclin spells such as Kei etc. Gear i can 100% promise you we are all within era hate on tho

Relapse1
06-28-2012, 05:24 PM
Finished this quest last night... WE STILL GETTIN DEM PIXELS

http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/6249/rszbuckler.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/859/rszbuckler.jpg/)


http://theresistanceguild.com/

Asher
06-28-2012, 05:25 PM
Why would I feel threatened by something that has been stated would not happen? Perhaps it is you that feels threatened by facts? If so that is your problem, not mine.

Facts?

Many things are said and things can change. If a majority of the community wanted this I know the GMs would listen. While Rogean and Nilbog run things we are the community. They do not cater to us but I am sure they care about what the community thinks and anything that would lighten the amount of BS that our poor GM and guides have to deal with is a big positive in my books. I have no idea why any of them do what they do for free. I wouldn't put up with all the babies on this server.

I have no problem, I posed a question. You have given your input and I am sure all your troll accounts have also voted.

Asher

P.S. Can mods please clean up the IB/TMO BS that seems to clutter up every thread? This is not RnF. Lets keep it civil pls.

mwatt
06-28-2012, 05:25 PM
If it was all about PvE with no MMO factor, EQ would have all be instanced from the beginning. Seems that it was pretty intentional from the beginning.

How many expansions did they put out before instancing in EQ?

They didn't want to instance EQ, it went against the MMO idea, I'll grant you that. What I don't agree with at all, is the conclusion you jump to (with no intervening logic) that "MMO factor" means that competition by guilds for raid targets was ever intended to be an integral, primary mode of play. For YOU and the "top 20%", maybe that it is what it is all about. The rest of us want to play the game WITH other players, against the environment - Not GVG against TMO.

Autotune
06-28-2012, 05:32 PM
Facts?

Many things are said and things can change. If a majority of the community wanted this I know the GMs would listen. While Rogean and Nilbog run things we are the community. They do not cater to us but I am sure they care about what the community thinks and anything that would lighten the amount of BS that our poor GM and guides have to deal with is a big positive in my books. I have no idea why any of them do what they do for free. I wouldn't put up with all the babies on this server.

I have no problem, I posed a question. You have given your input and I am sure all your troll accounts have also voted.

Asher

P.S. Can mods please clean up the IB/TMO BS that seems to clutter up every thread? This is not RnF. Lets keep it civil pls.

I've not even voted on this, because it doesn't matter. Why cast a vote on something I already know the outcome of?

Nilbog has already stated he is working on improving the raiding scene, yet all you carebears do is complain that it isn't what you want and don't even consider what it might be.

You guys just keep spouting for more time from the GMs. If any group on p99 sounds entitled, it is you care bears and wanting another server instead of trying to do something about the server you are on.

Personally, you all disgust me. Instead of fighting to get what you want, you cry like little kids waiting to be mothered into the breasts of spoiled bratitude.

Words of wisdom from World of Warcraft (something you carebears can relate to) - Less QQ moar PEWPEW.

Alarti0001
06-28-2012, 05:34 PM
They didn't want to instance EQ, it went against the MMO idea, I'll grant you that. What I don't agree with at all, is the conclusion you jump to (with no intervening logic) that "MMO factor" means that competition by guilds for raid targets was ever intended to be an integral, primary mode of play. For YOU and the "top 20%", maybe that it is what it is all about. The rest of us want to play the game WITH other players, against the environment - Not GVG against TMO.

If you want to get to the soul of the creation of EQ you need to look at the MUDs brad played since he stated they designed this game based on muds.

Asher
06-28-2012, 05:37 PM
I've not even voted on this, because it doesn't matter. Why cast a vote on something I already know the outcome of?

Nilbog has already stated he is working on improving the raiding scene, yet all you carebears do is complain that it isn't what you want and don't even consider what it might be.

You guys just keep spouting for more time from the GMs. If any group on p99 sounds entitled, it is you care bears and wanting another server instead of trying to do something about the server you are on.

Personally, you all disgust me. Instead of fighting to get what you want, you cry like little kids waiting to be mothered into the breasts of spoiled bratitude.

Words of wisdom from World of Warcraft (something you carebears can relate to) - Less QQ moar PEWPEW.

I do not have the time to spend "fighting to get what I want". Again, this is your idea of how a classic server should be. There is no crying and the only bitching I hear is coming from you.

We will see what the GMs decide. I was thinking of waiting for Nilbog to posted his thoughts on what he plans on changing but I decided to post this prior to possibly influence. Who knows? It is only a matter of time before Red99 is completely empty and then maybe.

Thank you for your input.

Asher

Autotune
06-28-2012, 05:38 PM
They didn't want to instance EQ, it went against the MMO idea, I'll grant you that. What I don't agree with at all, is the conclusion you jump to (with no intervening logic) that "MMO factor" means that competition by guilds for raid targets was ever intended to be an integral, primary mode of play. For YOU and the "top 20%", maybe that it is what it is all about. The rest of us want to play the game WITH other players, against the environment - Not GVG against TMO.

The MMO factor is just what it is. You deal with people with all types of personalities. It's quite evident from different people's past experiences on their servers that each server was different. Some were more casual, some were not. I see no reason to take out the MMO factor on purpose or to bypass it with enforcing rules that sway the MMO feel. Part of what made p99 great was the unknown factor of what another guild was going to do and having to deal with other players in all aspects of the game.

The only thing that is truly wrong with p99 is the way raid targets spawn. The rest of p99 is well within reason for the most part.

Gwence
06-28-2012, 05:40 PM
trans, div, da, tmo - we've had much better guilds than tmo to deal with over the years

like I said tmo was basically a non factor to us, majority of the server doesn't even consider you guys to be good, it's sad really.


and please continue to use your conspiracy theories about gm favoritsm against us with zero shred of evidence haha, it makes you look really smart.

everyone else can notice how they have no defense against a super late VP opening, which was only reason they have any server firsts lol

I mean you want to talk about GM favoritsm, if anything, that is the best example right there haha.

Autotune
06-28-2012, 05:40 PM
I do not have the time to spend "fighting to get what I want". Again, this is your idea of how a classic server should be. There is no crying and the only bitching I hear is coming from you.

We will see what the GMs decide. I was thinking of waiting for Nilbog to posted his thoughts on what he plans on changing but I decided to post this prior to possibly influence. Who knows? It is only a matter of time before Red99 is completely empty and then maybe.

Thank you for your input.

Asher

The Red99 server is Rogean's server. If you've not seen the past comments from Rogean about rotations, you should definitely give them a look.

Relapse1
06-28-2012, 05:43 PM
and please continue to use your conspiracy theories about gm favoritsm against us with zero shred of evidence haha, it makes you look really smart.
.

as the #1 Tmo spokesman ALARTI would say EVIDENCE PLZ

Autotune
06-28-2012, 05:45 PM
trans, div, da, tmo - we've had much better guilds than tmo to deal with over the years

like I said tmo was basically a non factor to us, majority of the server doesn't even consider you guys to be good, it's sad really.


and please continue to use your conspiracy theories about gm favoritsm against us with zero shred of evidence haha, it makes you look really smart.

everyone else can notice how they have no defense against a super late VP opening, which was only reason they have any server firsts lol

I mean you want to talk about GM favoritsm, if anything, that is the best example right there haha.

TMO was the non-factor that IB tried to merge with... yeah.

GM favoritism has been posted on the forums and IRC more than a dozen times (even from the ex-guides/gms that committed them).

We don't need a defense about a super late VP opening, everything opened late on p99 you stupid fuck.

I also love how you type "haha" throughout your posts, showing people you are truly fucking stupid.

Gwence fighting hard to hold top retarded IB poster of all time, something to be truly admired considering how tough Eashan is as an opponent.

Flunklesnarkin
06-28-2012, 05:45 PM
I've not even voted on this, because it doesn't matter. Why cast a vote on something I already know the outcome of?

Nilbog has already stated he is working on improving the raiding scene, yet all you carebears do is complain that it isn't what you want and don't even consider what it might be.

You guys just keep spouting for more time from the GMs. If any group on p99 sounds entitled, it is you care bears and wanting another server instead of trying to do something about the server you are on.

Personally, you all disgust me. Instead of fighting to get what you want, you cry like little kids waiting to be mothered into the breasts of spoiled bratitude.

Words of wisdom from World of Warcraft (something you carebears can relate to) - Less QQ moar PEWPEW.

If we were talking about a classic PVP server your attitude would make sense.

I don't remember anybody with your attitude toward others on a classic PVE server when eq came out.


If you want to fight against others.. go play on red.

Most people have no problem competing in a civil manner (look at best of the best in classic era).. what they don't want is the vitriol that TMO seems to require for them to feel like they've won.


Most people feel the game should be players against content.. not players against guild.. look at your boy alarti, he seems to think TMO is some form of content in the game.. (conceited much?)

mwatt
06-28-2012, 05:45 PM
If you want to get to the soul of the creation of EQ you need to look at the MUDs brad played since he stated they designed this game based on muds.

I don't particularly want to research Muds to get to the soul of EQ thank you. I did know that Brad and crew got a lot of the basic ideas (naturally) for their new game from past experiences and that some of them had played Muds.

The point of my post is simple. Certain people, Autotune most vociferously, are placing the idea of GVG competition above all other considerations when it comes to accessing high level, resource-constrained content. They imply that it is natural (which I agree with, given the lack of resources and the nature of humanity en masse). What I don't necessarily agree with is that it is "right", "fun" or even best for the server. Lots of "my group vs your group" things that a minority of humans will do, especially in groups, is natural. They are not necessarily good, just because they are natural (e.g. war, slavery, rioting).

Above and beyond all, this idea of GVG competition should not necessarily be considered inviolate, which is what these vocal TMO folk and others, would have us all do.

Gwence
06-28-2012, 05:46 PM
ya it's funny how they'll use that line when it benefits them, but then make just as many unsubstantiated claims as anyone else haha

idiots man - it's as clear as day

Alarti0001
06-28-2012, 05:49 PM
trans, div, da, tmo - we've had much better guilds than tmo to deal with over the years

like I said tmo was basically a non factor to us, majority of the server doesn't even consider you guys to be good, it's sad really.


and please continue to use your conspiracy theories about gm favoritsm against us with zero shred of evidence haha, it makes you look really smart.

everyone else can notice how they have no defense against a super late VP opening, which was only reason they have any server firsts lol

I mean you want to talk about GM favoritsm, if anything, that is the best example right there haha.

Lol hmm evidence the three gms in your guild were removed from their positions. You argue about server firsts tmo wasnt even here for. Again you can only compete when TMO isnt there. Gj

Relapse1
06-28-2012, 05:50 PM
At the end of the day its just boil downs to whose gettin dem pixels
http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/6249/rszbuckler.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/859/rszbuckler.jpg/)


http://theresistanceguild.com/

Tasslehofp99
06-28-2012, 05:54 PM
Wonder if TMO is l33t enough to stay on project1999 alone after everyone inevitably leaves/quits due to their presence/actions on the server. Wishful thinking I guess...

Gwence
06-28-2012, 05:55 PM
TMO was the non-factor that IB tried to merge with... yeah.

GM favoritism has been posted on the forums and IRC more than a dozen times (even from the ex-guides/gms that committed them).

We don't need a defense about a super late VP opening, everything opened late on p99 you stupid fuck.

I also love how you type "haha" throughout your posts, showing people you are truly fucking stupid.

Gwence fighting hard to hold top retarded IB poster of all time, something to be truly admired considering how tough Eashan is as an opponent.

1- raided with tmo on a joint venture into fear after blackwater incident happened, zeelot as an sk couldn't maintain agro off our rogues lol, lesserati as a monk probably worst player I've ever seen.. took us about 10 minutes to realize your guild was a complete joke, and tmo option wouldn't be worthwhile to pursue lol

2- no it didnt, obviously showing how new you really are, but early content was pretty managed pretty well and timely. Also VP was ready, they chose not to open it, well Rogean did... just look at that gm favoritsm towards us. And please, you are the absolute last person on the planet that should EVER call someone else dumb. Your IQ rivels a very dull, very sun worn rock in a desert somewhere. I mean seriously you need to post a picture of yourself so we can make them into posters for why kids should stay away from drugs.

All TMO has is conjecture and fucking word of mouth shit that rarely involves them, IB has the facts and the facts say we're way better than you are now, were before, or ever will be in the future

HAHA

Autotune
06-28-2012, 05:57 PM
If we were talking about a classic PVP server your attitude would make sense.

I don't remember anybody with your attitude toward others on a classic PVE server when eq came out.


If you want to fight against others.. go play on red.

Most people have no problem competing in a civil manner (look at best of the best in classic era).. what they don't want is the vitriol that TMO seems to require for them to feel like they've won.


Most people feel the game should be players against content.. not players against guild.. look at your boy alarti, he seems to think TMO is some form of content in the game.. (conceited much?)

If red was out when I started, I would have played on red.

I don't feel p99 should solely be Guilds Vs Content, I feel it should be more how the game was designed - Guilds Vs Everything.

Gwence
06-28-2012, 05:57 PM
Lol hmm evidence the three gms in your guild were removed from their positions. You argue about server firsts tmo wasnt even here for. Again you can only compete when TMO isnt there. Gj

haha it's 3 gm's now????

It was 1 before

Guess it'll be like 10 in a few months.

Gwence
06-28-2012, 05:58 PM
If red was out when I started, I would have played on red.

I don't feel p99 should solely be Guilds Vs Content, I feel it should be more how the game was designed - Guilds Vs Everything.

rest assured no one gives a flying fuck what you feel.... about anything.

Gwence
06-28-2012, 06:00 PM
this is like that game where alot of kids get in a circle someone whispers a word to the person next to them and it continues down the chain until it comes back to the first kid..

it's inevidably a different word at the end than it was at the beginning..

can't remember name of that game but I played it in day camp as a kid when I was like 10 yrs old.. which is coincidentally the collective age of TMO members.

Silentone
06-28-2012, 06:07 PM
awww look at relapsee, must suck to have to post on a different servers forums about the loot you have to get people to care. I guess thats what you have to do on a server were you are the number 10 guild

Relapse1
06-28-2012, 06:10 PM
[QUOTE=Relapse1;675542] PIXELS AHHHHHHHH

http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/6249/rszbuckler.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/859/rszbuckler.jpg/)

MORE PIXELS

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5729/hahahahjpg.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/hahahahjpg.gif/)

Cars
06-28-2012, 06:10 PM
what ib could never do?? we did everything you did, and did it first and better haha

how can you be this dense?

and how am I re-inforcing your ignorant belief, vp wasn't open on time or we would've been done with it by the time you all were ready to go in, likewise if velious was opened 1yr after kunark (normal timeline) we would've been 75% done before u attempt your first lodizal lol

your delusions that you are the better guild because we chose to go progress somewhere else continues to be laughable. And it's blatantly obvious you're just mad you didn't think of it first. EQ has always been a game of PVE progression and which guilds are strong enough to set themselves apart on that front. Never has it been a game of which guild can poopsock with the largest socks and which can grief others the best. IB has always had the upper hand, just read the server first thread

"but wahhawahhawhh we weren't raiding till just recently, once you guys had already killed everything 50+ times"... it's a fucking lame excuse cry more - once it was known vp wasnt opening on time (which would've been expansion launch) ib had half it's motivation and still owned TMO in every way possible. And now we're owning velious while you all are raid suspended lol.

there is not a single person on this server with a shred of intelligence that would put tmo in the same league as ib lol, it's like comparing a lion to a fucking cockroach.

only thing tmo stands out in is how stupid all there forum warriors make them look on a daily basis.

Gwence, if you and your guild are so happy at EQmac then why do you keep crawling back over to P99 forums to see if your legacy is still in tact? Especially when your tone (refer to above post) is chalk full of emotion about said legacy?

You guys accomplished a LOT on this server, congratulations, nobody is going to take that away from you. You are uncontested at getting uncontested server firsts and you will always be remembered as the guild that said they did a lot more with a lot less (until DA zerged up, then you were just doing a lot less with a lot less).

The truth here, regardless of how much street cred you think your past accomplishments grants you, is that TMO came up and IB went down. You can say you just decided to leave to greener pastures, but that's not true, you went to easier pastures and it kills you inside. Be that as it may, if you don't like the fact that TMO is the uncontested top dog on this server, or if you think your accomplishments of old should outshine what TMO has been doing lately, then you need to prove it because once TMO came along the only thing you guys could coordinate was an exodus.

Either come back and prove your as bad ass as you think, or enjoy EQ mac like the uncontested boss that you are.

P.S: What a pussy move to come back to this server during the only time TMO couldn't be, your fear is obv.

Relapse1
06-28-2012, 06:14 PM
Either come back and prove your as bad ass as you think

Tell the GM's to step aside

Flunklesnarkin
06-28-2012, 06:17 PM
Wow.. hopefully thats something TMO can get behind..


a guild that wants to compete against them without any GM interference


just let all the casuals move onto a carebear server and have fun ;p


TMO gets their fight.. and casuals get their rainbows and teddybears :D

Cars
06-28-2012, 06:29 PM
Tell the GM's to step aside

I believe it's IB who has a history of telling GM's what to do? We could always ask though

Autotune
06-28-2012, 06:30 PM
Gwence, is it painful being that stupid? Generally curious how you live with such an apparent handicap. I am guessing some form of caretaker and welfare helps, maybe some form of drug that hasn't been released to the public?

I throw out some truth and your delusional ramblings just start getting posted uncontrollably. I truly feel sorry for you, I'll ask my aunt and grandmother to start prayer chains for you.

coki
06-28-2012, 06:39 PM
Never had a friendly encounter with an IB person, they all had this ..im better then you at this game lol attitude. it was funny seeing TMO destroy them and make them leave the server though

the first cool person i met was in TMO

Alarti0001
06-28-2012, 06:43 PM
haha it's 3 gm's now????

It was 1 before

Guess it'll be like 10 in a few months.

Xzerion, cyrius, hobby...was i missing another?

Flunklesnarkin
06-28-2012, 06:46 PM
Apparently TMO would rather argue about which guilds abused GM petitions more than embrace a no gm interference server ;p

Alarti0001
06-28-2012, 06:46 PM
Tell the GM's to step aside

Ib strategy when you cant compete blame gm conspiracy and run away with your tail between you legs.

Alarti0001
06-28-2012, 06:47 PM
Apparently TMO would rather argue about which guilds abused GM petitions more than embrace a no gm interference server ;p

Derp tmo has long embraced no gm interference as we come from a server with little to no gm interference.

Relapse1
06-28-2012, 06:48 PM
Tmo strategy train/kite/exploit/Rmt till it is only us left on the server.

Autotune
06-28-2012, 06:50 PM
Apparently TMO would rather argue about which guilds abused GM petitions more than embrace a no gm interference server ;p

TMO would dominate as they've already done. They don't care either way.

It is truly funny that you guys mistake opposition to your point (backed by previous statements of the staff) as TMO not wanting the carebears getting what they want.

I tell you why something won't work/happen and you bring up a guildtag. Who is truly blinded by their own greed?

Flunklesnarkin
06-28-2012, 06:53 PM
So your only objection to two servers would be it would split the population but in the same breathe admit that the servers are top heavy.


a split server would alleviate some of the top heavy aspects and allow players to choose the type of server they want to play on.. no gm's at all.. or carebear.


and I have a strong suspicion that the overall population would increase as well.. people love new servers.. and old players that were turned off by the current raid scene would return as well.


It can't turn out any worse than the pvp red experiment lol.. and I would be interested to see which server maintains higher population

Relapse1
06-28-2012, 06:58 PM
no need for a 2nd server if you wanna raid and not have to put up with the nonsense Eqmac is more classic and more of a challenge ne way

Autotune
06-28-2012, 06:58 PM
So your only objection to two servers would be it would split the population but in the same breathe admit that the servers are top heavy.


a split server would alleviate some of the top heavy aspects and allow players to choose the type of server they want to play on.. no gm's at all.. or carebear.


and I have a strong suspicion that the overall population would increase as well.. people love new servers.. and old players that were turned off by the current raid scene would return as well.


It can't turn out any worse than the pvp red experiment lol.. and I would be interested to see which server maintains higher population

I don't care about server population. I never dealt with 90% of the people that played when i played.

Again, more GM involvement is something they do not want. Another server adds more work, no matter which way you look at it. It isn't the staffs fault you can't figure out how to solve your own problems. It has always been like this on p99, regarding the raiding scene, not sure what makes you think it has changed. The staff has always expressed interest in making the current server's raiding scene better (or at the least feigned interest), they just haven't followed through.

Flunklesnarkin
06-28-2012, 06:59 PM
TMO would dominate as they've already done. They don't care either way.

It is truly funny that you guys mistake opposition to your point (backed by previous statements of the staff) as TMO not wanting the carebears getting what they want.

I tell you why something won't work/happen and you bring up a guildtag. Who is truly blinded by their own greed?

the only thing you said is that some guilds would try to manipulate the rules.


I'm basically for giving people with philosophical differences a choice... do you want a game with no gm interference.. or a game with strong gm interference..


This current haphazard.. sometimes interfere sometimes don't system.. leads to the complaints we see about guilds having unfair rulings and what not.


Pretty much if somebody is always riding the line trying to squeeze through the rules at the expense of others.. i'm sure they would end up getting transferred to the competitive server and I have more faith in the community to smell a con job than you.

as for the workload.. I don't see a significant increase for them.. instead of monitoring competitive server they would only have to monitor the casual server.. and for stricter enforcement.. I know plenty of casuals would jump at the chance to be guides and create a better game environment. and the people who cause problems on casual server.. just transfer to competitive and forget about it.

Hitchens
06-28-2012, 07:01 PM
I'm basically for giving people with philosophical differences a choice... do you want a game with no gm interference.. or a game with strong gm interference..

False dichotomy.

Flunklesnarkin
06-28-2012, 07:04 PM
False dichotomy.

how is it false?

some people want no gm's

others want them.

Alarti0001
06-28-2012, 07:05 PM
False dichotomy.

False dilemma/dichotomy fallacy glad someone else here can think logically!

Alarti0001
06-28-2012, 07:07 PM
how is it false?

some people want no gm's

others want them.

You were saying there were only 2 possibilities, when there are more

Arclanz
06-28-2012, 07:07 PM
I think Gringo said it best..

"I have to agree this has to be the biggest collection of douchebags I have seen in a MMO."

Look at all the incendiary, zero-value remarks here. Hilarious. btw Flunklesnarkin is spot on. Posts make sense and are presented in a considerate manner. Bravo.

Flunklesnarkin
06-28-2012, 07:07 PM
False dilemma/dichotomy fallacy glad someone else here can think logically!

you can call it false all you want..


you either want gm's to interfere.. or you don't


unless you are suggesting some sort of middle ground where gm's only interfere when it benefits you?

Gwence
06-28-2012, 07:19 PM
Gwence, if you and your guild are so happy at EQmac then why do you keep crawling back over to P99 forums to see if your legacy is still in tact? Especially when your tone (refer to above post) is chalk full of emotion about said legacy?

You guys accomplished a LOT on this server, congratulations, nobody is going to take that away from you. You are uncontested at getting uncontested server firsts and you will always be remembered as the guild that said they did a lot more with a lot less (until DA zerged up, then you were just doing a lot less with a lot less).

The truth here, regardless of how much street cred you think your past accomplishments grants you, is that TMO came up and IB went down. You can say you just decided to leave to greener pastures, but that's not true, you went to easier pastures and it kills you inside. Be that as it may, if you don't like the fact that TMO is the uncontested top dog on this server, or if you think your accomplishments of old should outshine what TMO has been doing lately, then you need to prove it because once TMO came along the only thing you guys could coordinate was an exodus.

Either come back and prove your as bad ass as you think, or enjoy EQ mac like the uncontested boss that you are.

P.S: What a pussy move to come back to this server during the only time TMO couldn't be, your fear is obv.

hmm why do I come to a public forum... your sig says retired guess I could ask you the same question. Honestly don't give a shit about what you think of ib's legacy or what the tmo groupies think, it's futile really they're idiots... I mean autotunes is dumb as shit I have no doubt about that but he also just posts here for no reason other than to make himself look even dumber, no one ever backs him up here.. even alarti - which is really saying something, cuz that dude is 2nd dumbest. The people that know about IB, know about IB.. simple as that.. and believe it or not that is the vast majority, they are just way smarter than all of us and don't waste there time here.

With the exception of alarti, every other tmo'er that posts here regularlary doesnt even play, that should be a wake up call that lets you know there only entertainment was griefing, which they werent even good at.

I like how you open your statement with "the truth". You're trying to sound intelligent and level headed when you're just as fucking dumb as the rest of them. You say the truth then proceed to type up a paragraph that is 100% opinion. Dumbass. And worse it's completely false opinion.

EQmac easier than p99, put down the crack pipe. If you ever made it past level 10 you might know that fighting mobs with 100k-1mil hp vs mobs with MAX 32k there is no comparison.

I don't give a fuck that TMO is top dog haha refer to my earlier posts, and learn to read. It's like claiming superiority on a paint ball field with no one else out there. Congrats lol.

I have nothing to prove, refer to server first thread - it's all the proof anyone will ever need. IB was owning this place before u even knew it existed against far greater opponents than TMO.

Mac has way more competition than p99 believe it or not, but in the right way. - being that you've never played there I guess you wouldnt know. It's not surprising at all that you are talking like you do though.. it's to be expected from morons.

There is no competition on P99 - all it is is a bunch of zerg.. I fucking dare people to sock tormax if velious ever opens and then rush in to get FTE and see what happens, same can be said for any other velious target.. Kunark mobs allow for this behavior, because they are easy and die in 15 seconds. You need little or no strategy to win, and this is the ONLY reason tmo has been moderately successful here. They have no chance whatsoever when the real stuff comes out.

Whether someone tries to restart ib or whatever happens, the casual guilds will easily be able to overtake them in the next expansion.

Autotune
06-28-2012, 07:26 PM
hmm why do I come to a public forum... your sig says retired guess I could ask you the same question. Honestly don't give a shit about what you think of ib's legacy or what the tmo groupies think, it's futile really they're idiots... I mean autotunes is dumb as shit I have no doubt about that but he also just posts here for no reason other than to make himself look even dumber, no one ever backs him up here.. even alarti - which is really saying something, cuz that dude is 2nd dumbest. The people that know about IB, know about IB.. simple as that.. and believe it or not that is the vast majority, they are just way smarter than all of us and don't waste there time here.

With the exception of alarti, every other tmo'er that posts here regularlary doesnt even play, that should be a wake up call that lets you know there only entertainment was griefing, which they werent even good at.

I like how you open your statement with "the truth". You're trying to sound intelligent and level headed when you're just as fucking dumb as the rest of them. You say the truth then proceed to type up a paragraph that is 100% opinion. Dumbass. And worse it's completely false opinion.

EQmac easier than p99, put down the crack pipe. If you ever made it past level 10 you might know that fighting mobs with 100k-1mil hp vs mobs with MAX 32k there is no comparison.

I don't give a fuck that TMO is top dog haha refer to my earlier posts, and learn to read. It's like claiming superiority on a paint ball field with no one else out there. Congrats lol.

I have nothing to prove, refer to server first thread - it's all the proof anyone will ever need. IB was owning this place before u even knew it existed against far greater opponents than TMO.

Mac has way more competition than p99 believe it or not, but in the right way. - being that you've never played there I guess you wouldnt know. It's not surprising at all that you are talking like you do though.. it's to be expected from morons.

There is no competition on P99 - all it is is a bunch of zerg.. I fucking dare people to sock tormax if velious ever opens and then rush in to get FTE and see what happens, same can be said for any other velious target.. Kunark mobs allow for this behavior, because they are easy and die in 15 seconds. You need little or no strategy to win, and this is the ONLY reason tmo has been moderately successful here. They have no chance whatsoever when the real stuff comes out.

Whether someone tries to restart ib or whatever happens, the casual guilds will easily be able to overtake them in the next expansion.

Look at this pile of shit spewed by a bigger pile of shit. Simply amazing.

Relapse1
06-28-2012, 07:35 PM
Gwence wins today's forum quest adventure

Autotune
06-28-2012, 07:47 PM
Gwence wins today's forum quest adventure

You know how IB makes fun of Fountree.

Gwence = Fountree for TMO.

aka, Gwence can never win, he is forever alone.

somnia
06-28-2012, 07:54 PM
False dilemma/dichotomy fallacy glad someone else here can think logically!

Alarti's crusade for logic on the internet continues.

Asher
06-28-2012, 07:58 PM
You realize mobs spawn at other times than 3am right?

Ok, pick your time. 9am? 12pm? 3pm?

I know I cannot be on call for a game. I understand that you think everyone should if they want a chance at raid targets. I have a job and family that keeps me very busy. That is pretty much how it is on the current p99. I think there are enough of us that think otherwise.

Asher

Alarti0001
06-28-2012, 08:52 PM
.
EQmac easier than p99, put down the crack pipe. If you ever made it past level 10 you might know that fighting mobs with 100k-1mil hp vs mobs with MAX 32k there is no comparison.


wow you are raging hard. But eqmac is easier you just have velious+, the combat mechanics are dumbed down. You are fighting velious mobs with an easier combat table. Velious on p99 will be harder than on Mac..... get a clue.

Relapse1
06-28-2012, 09:07 PM
wow you are raging hard. But eqmac is easier you just have velious+, the combat mechanics are dumbed down. You are fighting velious mobs with an easier combat table. Velious on p99 will be harder than on Mac..... get a clue.

it has been said 100x that content on eqmac is harder get a clue numbnuts

Autotune
06-28-2012, 09:12 PM
it has been said 100x that content on eqmac is harder get a clue numbnuts

it's not harder, you got all day to kill those easy encounters.

Maze513
06-28-2012, 09:34 PM
it has also been said 100x times that Getsome is evil RMT leader....


making this Confirmed 100% True

Nirgon
06-28-2012, 10:05 PM
wow you are raging hard. But eqmac is easier you just have velious+, the combat mechanics are dumbed down. You are fighting velious mobs with an easier combat table. Velious on p99 will be harder than on Mac..... get a clue.

Dunno on this one man, I have a strong feeling big targets will die with Kunark gear here.

Galilao
06-28-2012, 10:14 PM
Not in either guild but for 100x time, EQMac is like 10x harder then P99 no contest not even close if you had any extended experience on that server you would very quickly realize this.

Heebee
06-28-2012, 10:16 PM
Autotune confirmed RMT'er.

< Doors > stealin buy my manastone
< Stealin > why?
< Stealin > can't legit rmt on p99
< Stealin > not worth playin

Relapse1
06-28-2012, 10:18 PM
Not in either guild but for 100x time, EQMac is like 10x harder then P99 no contest not even close if you had any extended experience on that server you would very quickly realize this.

bizzum
06-29-2012, 12:34 AM
get a clue

http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/img/content/characters/202a.jpg

I think I'm getting a clue right now!

Autotune
06-29-2012, 12:34 AM
TMO break p99 yet?

Relapse1
06-29-2012, 03:23 AM
did Tmo try and disrupt the open VP raid led by Getsome earlier tonight??

http://i48.tinypic.com/w1xsva.jpg


http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6753/rszswarws.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/4/rszswarws.jpg/)

bluejam
06-29-2012, 04:48 PM
I would like to see a place where casuals and people with familes, jobs etc could schedule time to do content that they would not normally have access to.
It's called EQMac.

Splorf22
06-29-2012, 04:56 PM
Every flamewar makes EQmac sound that much more appealing :D

Asher
06-29-2012, 07:22 PM
It's called EQMac.

I was already there. Had the top geared bard on the server at the time. Not interested in Luclin and PoP content, only Classic Trilogy EQ.

Asher

oldhead
06-29-2012, 09:36 PM
I'll donate $50 if you put a new server up =)
Would give me an excuse to start playing again. Fresh.
Im all for some casual (scheduled) raid guilds.

bluejam
06-30-2012, 07:51 PM
I was already there. Had the top geared bard on the server at the time. Not interested in Luclin and PoP content, only Classic Trilogy EQ.

Asher
Join Vintage. You will not be happy on this server.

Asher
07-02-2012, 06:23 PM
Join Vintage. You will not be happy on this server.

I considered rolling an alt in Vintage when I was on the server, but I pitched my Mac the day I came here. Another reason why I haven't been able to test and fraps the bug with Clinging Darkness that the Devs claim they tested on EQMac.

People complain about the population on this server while EQMac is even worse. Well, it was when I was there anyways. The population of people XPing and raiding on the zones you do will be slim whereas I can roll a new toon and find PUGs all over here. People are too spread out on EQMac.

If any lvl 50+ Necros or SKs are on EQMac and want to do me a huge favour PM me. :)

Asher

inyane
07-02-2012, 06:45 PM
eqmac population probably lower cause they don't have 100+ on poopsocking ;)

Sure, people may not be spread out as much here, due to less zones...but on the other hand, everyone here is in the same couple of zones. You have one, or two if lucky, zones per level range where you can actually go lfg and maybe get one.