Experience in Groups

[Loxo]

ok i removed this after I uh, scrolled down, but I'm still pretty sure from my last few groups that mobs that were blue/light blue to me gave no exp due to higher levels being in the group, so maybe this thing i wrote still applies:

I found the level requirements in the game mechanics on the wiki, but what I can't find is how exp is distributed amongst group members in regards to the highest level.

IIRC on classic-live (pre-luclin at least) it worked like this: a mob's total exp was split evenly among group members who the mob would yield exp to. This caused a pretty massive lolway to PL someone who was within level range to group, when say a level 51 grouped with a level 35 somewhere that mobs gave exp to the 35 but were too green for the 51. The level 35 essentially got solo exp at a grouped killing speed. It was nice to catch up a buddy or someone's new alt, but also made exping from 35-50 fairly broken.

From what I can tell here on p1999, it's similar rules to SoD, where the group members get the same exp as the highest level in the group, but that also causes a problem in that when I ding and mobs start turning green and I have to either stay and bring the group's exp to a crawl, or leave; and that's no good on a low pop server at most times of the day because without a replacement their exp is likely to slow to a crawl anyway.

I'm wondering what thoughts are on making it so the exp from the mob is always split for each group member and if the mob was green to any one player their share is just lost. This way players can just stay in their group to help the rest of the group continue to level, without resorting to out of group pulling and 49% damaging or something or just plain leaving.

[Loxo]

while maintaining current level requirements obv

[easy_lee]

According to the wiki, experience is distributed based on experience totals.

To paraphrase, consider mob experience to be a big pie. The pie is divided up proportionate to each member's current experience total. By experience total, I mean all of the experience the character has ever gained. So a higher level character gets a bigger piece of the pie than a lower level character of the same class and race.

To give an example, lets say 3 people form a group, and their totals are 100, 100, and 150 experience ever gained. They kill a mob who yields 7 experience (after taking zone xp multiplier into consideration). The two 100's would get 2 xp each, and the 150 would get 3 xp.

Hybrids and some races take more or less experience to get to the same point. The extreme examples are halfling warriors, who require 0.95 * 0.9 = 85.5% experience to level, and troll/iksar sks, who require 1.2 * 1.4 = 168% experience. When grouping with these characters, if you are the same level as them you will get a bigger or smaller piece of the pie than you otherwise would.

The difference in experience between levels tends to be bigger than the difference between hybrids vs non hybrids. To quote straight from the game mechanics page: at the experience total 10,000,000, a human monk is level 20, a halfling warrior level 22, and a troll sk level 18. So as you can see, if you were a 20 monk, you'd much rather group with an 18 SK than a 22 monk because you'll get more experience with the SK.

As far as minimum level for group experience, take the lowest level and multiply by 1.5 (round down) or highest level and multiply by 0.667 (round up). A level 20 can group up to 1.5 * 20 = 30, and a level 30 can group down to 0.667 * 30 = 20.

The lesson to be learned from all that is: group with people who have similar xp totals. Try not to group with too-much higher level players, especially not hybrids, but don't kick a hybrid out just for being one, especially if they're a little lower level than you.

I don't know what determines whether you get xp from a mob or not while in a compatible group though. Sometimes I get xp from greens in groups, sometimes not. I don't know how it's decided.

[Loxo]

i think i get the distribution, i did read the wiki game mechanics like i said. its the yield in regards to the highest lvl in the group. currently it seems no one in the group gets exp if the highest level in the group does not get exp such as in my example where a player levels during the group.

the classic ruleset allowed the rest of the group to continue to get exp, and just divided the pie among the characters who still got exp. if there were a group of three 100s, and one levels to 150 the mobs turn gree to him. the now 150 would start getting 0 exp while the yielded exp was divided among the rest of the group who were still 100; giving the two 100's 3.5 exp. that had its serious problems though and im glad not to see it on p1999.

i was wondering what thoughts were on a middle ground distribution of exp that mimicked the claasic ruleset without being broken... where the 100s continue to gain 2 exp per kill instead of 3.5 (claasic) or 0 (current p1999).

thank you for the informative reply and sorry if anything is difficult to read, posting from my phone.

[phobus]

currently it seems no one in the group gets exp if the highest level in the group does not get exp such as in my example where a player levels during the group.

the classic ruleset allowed the rest of the group to continue to get exp, and just divided the pie among the characters who still got exp.

So what you're saying is, if a level 60 is grouped with a level 5 in Crushbone, the 60 can pull the zone, wipe everything out, and the level 5 will get full exp for every kill?

That's certainly not something I remember. Got any evidence?

[Slycen]

So what you're saying is, if a level 60 is grouped with a level 5 in Crushbone, the 60 can pull the zone, wipe everything out, and the level 5 will get full exp for every kill?

That's certainly not something I remember. Got any evidence?

Level x 1.5 = max level character you can exp with.

Now I don't know how it works if a 40 and 60 are grouped and mob being killed is green to the 60.

[Auchae]

If mob doesn't yield exp to the highest level in group, no one gets exp iirc.

[soniknoise]

Yeah experience in groups seems odd. I could have sworn that in classic you always got experience for things that weren't green - even if it was green to others in the group. This was balanced by the fact that the higher level players still took their portion from the pie - they just didn't actually get it; it was lost. But I really thought the lower level group members still got their portion.

So as long as you were within the 2/3's of highest level range you could still group up and kill things (blue to lower level and green to higher level) and the lower would still get experience (drastically cut).

No experience for anyone in the group makes it quite annoying to try and get friends caught up in experience once they get behind.

[Loxo]

Yeah experience in groups seems odd. I could have sworn that in classic you always got experience for things that weren't green - even if it was green to others in the group. This was balanced by the fact that the higher level players still took their portion from the pie - they just didn't actually get it; it was lost. But I really thought the lower level group members still got their portion.

So as long as you were within the 2/3's of highest level range you could still group up and kill things (blue to lower level and green to higher level) and the lower would still get experience (drastically cut).

No experience for anyone in the group makes it quite annoying to try and get friends caught up in experience once they get behind.

yes this, although up through late velious least, the high level's portion was not lost. the exp was divided between those able to receive it, resulting in the lolbroken ability to pl in places like bloodgills, lt in guk, etc.

[Loxo]

but please remember the suggestion is a not-broken version where exp is not exploitable like it was.

[DarkwingDuck]

I'm gonna chime in here.. This is how it works.
When I ding in a group and now the mobs green.. My group members are still getting exp.. And vice versa. When someone higher than me dings and mobs green to them, I'm still gaining exp ... Hope this helps

[Loxo]

are you still getting exp from those greens though? after level 10 greens still give exp for a level or two.

[Flash]

I thought there was an experience bonus depending on how many people are in your party.

[easy_lee]

Some mod info on what mobs give exp and what mobs don't in groups would be great. Does the mob con against the average level of the group, or the highest level, or the lowest level or what?

[soniknoise]

Example from what I've seen on this server:

3 person group in Crushbone. Level 7 cleric, 6 bard, and a 6 warrior.

Orc cent cons green to the cleric but blue to bard and warrior = 0 experience for anyone.


In my recollection of classic EQ:

Same group and kill would yield experience for the bard and warrior but no experience for the cleric, but the cleric would still take their portion from the total ... e.g. if orc was worth 100 experience bard and warrior would each get 30ish (fudging numbers here) and cleric would get 0. Or it may have been like Loxo mentioned where the cleric's portion wasn't lost and the warrior and bard each got 50ish (though that is/was kinda silly/exploitable IMO). But I really never remember the case of getting 0 experience for a non-green mob if group was all in the 2/3 low/high range.


The way it seems to be working on this server is really annoying for grouping as it forces the group to move to harder areas sooner then they should need to (or nobody gets experience). It also removes the mechanism for normalizing group level by killing mobs that the highest level in the group gets no experience for but that the lower levels still do.