Who lays claim?

[Wonton]

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4734/eq000173.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/eq000173.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

DA trying to say that their "raid force" included members from outside their guild.

For those of you that don't know, and before you start spouting bullshit please listen. A raid force is 15 people(*see below). IF 2 guilds are camping a mob then its first come first serve. WHEN that 2nd guild shows up, if the first guild drops below 15 they forfeit their first shot. So you all please tell me what you think this SS means.

*This is where they gray area is.

It's gray because of this rule:
Q: What is a raid force?
A: For technicalities sake we will define a raid force as a gathering of 15+ people.

What is a gathering? in guild? out of guild? Can dark ascension hold a zone with 5 DA and 10 non tagged people?

Discuss?

[Desert]

it looks like 14 people in zone, but they had others not in guild raiding with them? they're part of the raid force imo. unless the rules specify Guild raid force.

I'm interested to see... because a loose coalition of random guilded people trying to raid things would definitely run into issues with this grey area.

[Modus]

I specifically asked you not to waste my time with this.

This is not a complete /who of the zone, and does not show unguilded raid attendance. We had 2 members of our raid, Squirly and Taichi, in the zone at the time.

Epic drivel, 'bro.

[Wonton]

Q: Can we continue to camp the raid mobs?
A: Certainly. If you want to have fifteen of your guild members sitting at every spawn site (six mobs to be precise) for 96 hours straight anticipating a spawn with the ability to mobilize not only those fifteen people but as well as any other required members to kill your intended target, all within the 30 minute time frame. By all means go ahead. I am sure after a few failed sessions due to not being able to mobilize quick enough, people won`t be willing to sit there for 4 days straight for months on end.

"of your guild members"

.....

[Wonton]

Please don't think this is a flame. It's a legit question and I am just looking for some clarification. In my above post that a direct quote from the rules posted by Nilbog.

if a GM or someone that knows something about this would respond instead of hip gangster wannabe's something good might come out of this post.

[Lill-Leif]

What is a gathering?

gathering (plural gatherings)
-A meeting or get-together; a party or social function.
-A group of people or things.

If you want to have fifteen of your guild members sitting at every spawn site...

If the above quote had stated "friends" instead of "guild members", would you interpret it as people being on your friends list, irl friends or just an example of a gathering of people?

[Modus]

Please don't think this is a flame...hip gangster wannabe's

Go away troll.

We've tried many times to have fair, logical rules put in place that would avoid these circumstances altogether. Your guild has fought tooth and nail in opposition to reason, and you've proven you're only interested in rules that suit your best interests.

Here is our conversation minutes before you posted, showing both members within our raid force and highlighting your foreknowledge of the unguilded raiders:

http://icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=16821&pictureid=384180

[Wonton]

You are just interpreting the rule in one direction. It can be interpreted many different ways, hence the reason of my post.

[Kinamur1999]

All the more reason these rules are horrible and need to be changed.

[Ihealyou]

We need EQ laywers. I start at 500p/hr btw.

[Imsetta]

I'm really no one to say, but this just looks like you did a /who Dark to get a list of the DA people in the zone and then a /who Ing to get a list of the IB in the zone. A complete /who list would show DA and IB names mixed in with each other along with any completely anon players or unguilded players.

As I said though, I'm really no one to say. Just looks like a scam to look as if you did everything correct and to the rules when you really just want things to go your way.

Lanys_T`Vyl

[Senadin]

Well it make sense that if you wanted to know how many of a given guild were in the zone to lay claim that you would only do a /who *guild*?

At least it would make counting easier with a one glimpse rather than sorting out all the others? Especially if the zone has a lot of folks, different guilds and folks anon and whatnot. You cant really tell for sure whose part of the opposing force if they arent tagged folks.

At least that's seems logical to me?

[Kainzo]

I'm really no one to say, but this just looks like you did a /who Dark to get a list of the DA people in the zone and then a /who Ing to get a list of the IB in the zone. A complete /who list would show DA and IB names mixed in with each other along with any completely anon players or unguilded players.

As I said though, I'm really no one to say. Just looks like a scam to look as if you did everything correct and to the rules when you really just want things to go your way.

Lanys_T`Vyl

also, shouldn't this be in the flames / rants discussion?

Sounds more of a bitch about policy.

[guineapig]

Go away troll.

We've tried many times to have fair, logical rules put in place that would avoid these circumstances altogether. Your guild has fought tooth and nail in opposition to reason, and you've proven you're only interested in rules that suit your best interests.

Here is our conversation minutes before you posted, showing both members within our raid force and highlighting your foreknowledge of the unguilded raiders:

http://icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=16821&pictureid=384180

Haha, OP got owned!
Nice try though!
Having unguilded people in your raid force is totally legit and that screenshot even shows that they were part of the group.

[Nedala]

Having unguilded people in your raid force is totally legit and that screenshot even shows that they were part of the group.

Agree, why shouldnt unguilded count if they are part of the raid?

[Shrubwise]

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4734/eq000173.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/eq000173.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

DA trying to say that their "raid force" included members from outside their guild.

For those of you that don't know, and before you start spouting bullshit please listen. A raid force is 15 people(*see below). IF 2 guilds are camping a mob then its first come first serve. WHEN that 2nd guild shows up, if the first guild drops below 15 they forfeit their first shot. So you all please tell me what you think this SS means.

*This is where they gray area is.

It's gray because of this rule:
Q: What is a raid force?
A: For technicalities sake we will define a raid force as a gathering of 15+ people.

What is a gathering? in guild? out of guild? Can dark ascension hold a zone with 5 DA and 10 non tagged people?

Discuss?




So you all please tell me what you think this SS means.



I will tell you what I think this SS means:

http://www.projectmayhemguild.org/images/WhatsThis.jpg
I think it means that you are playing on someone else's account? What does "taking over" a character mean?!?!

I think it is you sir who are breaking the rules here, so to act in a manner that the raiding guilds seem to do, here goes...

I'M TELLING MOMMY ON YOU!

[guineapig]

What bugs me is that the OP seems to conveniently neglect to mention the conversation he had with DA and the fact that the raid party in question included 14 DA and only 2 non-DA.

Instead he uses a hypothetical situation like this:

Can dark ascension hold a zone with 5 DA and 10 non tagged people?

That's an attempt at misdirection, pure and simple.

[Kainzo]

That does sort of seem like account sharing is taking place here. Anyone have a lvl 50 paladin I can play?

[Extunarian]

Boy am I dumb. Here I am killing gnolls in blackburrow in order to slowly work my way to the double digit levels, when all I had to do was 'take over' a level 50 char? How does one go about that by the way...buy all the character's stock and vote in a new Chairman and CEO?

[reyvinx]

BUMP, a wipe makes this a moot point.

/wink ~ you know who i'm talking about


Rey.

[Desert]

What is a gathering? in guild? out of guild? Can dark ascension hold a zone with 5 DA and 10 non tagged people?

Discuss?

is this the attitude of the players doing endgame stuff on this server? am I going to get steamrolled by IB because they think a group of mixed guilds and/or unguildeds can't handle a zone? Or is this guy just a douchebag trying to justify shit

Discuss

[Tallenn]

I will tell you what I think this SS means:

http://www.projectmayhemguild.org/images/WhatsThis.jpg
I think it means that you are playing on someone else's account? What does "taking over" a character mean?!?!

I think it is you sir who are breaking the rules here, so to act in a manner that the raiding guilds seem to do, here goes...

I'M TELLING MOMMY ON YOU!

I also noticed that the character who took the screenshot is Erana, but was posted by Wanton.

Not boxing are you? *gasp* that would be against the rules!

Then again, since it IS against the rules, it's probably not happening, right?

[Neno]

I also noticed that the character who took the screenshot is Erana, but was posted by Wanton.

Not boxing are you? *gasp* that would be against the rules!

Then again, since it IS against the rules, it's probably not happening, right?

Not only is leveling hard but so is attaching an image. Wonton is obviously the brains of this operation and therefor was entrusted with the task of clicking Insert Image.

[Bones]

I also noticed that the character who took the screenshot is Erana, but was posted by Wanton.

Not boxing are you? *gasp* that would be against the rules!

Then again, since it IS against the rules, it's probably not happening, right?

Didn't even notice that.

[Seaweedpimp]

If i know one thing at all, it's that I'm staying the hell away from IB.

noobz

[ryuut1]

Maybe IB and DA should just disband


Wait that won't happen.

But screw you, DA, for all the rules you break anyhow. wtf do you care if someone from IB says anything at all? I figured you'd be sitting back laughing at your belly button lint instead of getting all uppity.

[vinx]

is this the attitude of the players doing endgame stuff on this server? am I going to get steamrolled by IB because they think a group of mixed guilds and/or unguildeds can't handle a zone? Or is this guy just a douchebag trying to justify shit

Discuss

Its just IB, get used to it
rules dont mean anything when they can be broken down and reinterpreted to fit ones needs or misconstrued to the point where the rules have no validation.

[Rogean]

How about you guys stop looking for every fucking way around a rule and simply accept that they had enough people there to take down the mob or atleast make a decent shot?

WOW GUYS THATS A HARD CONCEPT BUT NO I'M TOO FUCKING SELFISH AND NEEDY AND I NEED TO FIND A WAY AROUND THE RULES TO MAKE MYSELF FEEL BETTER

Seriously, every time I see a fucking thread like this OH MYGOD THEY HAD 14 PEOPLE ITS OUR MOB LOL OURS OURS OURS YESSS I just want to fucking deathtouch the entire guild and despawn the mob.

[ryuut1]

omfg rogean where were you during the nagafen debate? i would have driven to you to kiss your feet had you acted on those impulses.

also, when you did the shamaeso screenshot. other foot? kissed.

[Gorgetrapper]

How about you guys stop looking for every fucking way around a rule and simply accept that they had enough people there to take down the mob or atleast make a decent shot?

WOW GUYS THATS A HARD CONCEPT BUT NO I'M TOO FUCKING SELFISH AND NEEDY AND I NEED TO FIND A WAY AROUND THE RULES TO MAKE MYSELF FEEL BETTER

Seriously, every time I see a fucking thread like this OH MYGOD THEY HAD 14 PEOPLE ITS OUR MOB LOL OURS OURS OURS YESSS I just want to fucking deathtouch the entire guild and despawn the mob.

I believe you should despawn them, these two guilds just try to lock down every raid target possible so no other guild (unless it's Europa because they're on during the times the server has low pop) can have a shot at a raid target, and then they bitch and moan when someone else can form up before them, and they try to hop around the rules the community tried to put together only to use the rules in their own favor.

[Desert]

i hear they used to disband guilds and despawn the debated mob back in the day... not suggesting it, just saying.

[iamjacksrage]

Hey! I have a great idea!

I know that you have to follow the rules...


BUT... if you COULD technically FOLLOW the rules with out specifically breaking them.. then maybe... just maybe.. I could get more LOOTS!!!







D-Bags.

[Rhalous]

Well, I am not aware of any rule that prohibits account sharing, so Wonton getting access to a druid account shouldn't raise any flags, imo.

I can tell you, however, that we all decided at a guild meeting about three weeks ago that having a raid force composed of different guilds is absolutely legit. I am pretty sure the OP was at the meeting, actually.

[iamjack]

i am taichi, one of the non-da guild raider in the picture
just want to ask, if i am not part of DA....
does it mean i can't play with DA? i can't join any of their raid? i can't join any of their operation?
my own guild will soon be ready for raid, but atm they ain't. and i have never played in live, i don't know about raid and i need experience from raid.
DA kindly accepted me to join their raid as a non-DA member,
Thanks for that, i just had my first plane of fear, first naggy, first raid mob camping etc..
i have been followed 2pm yesterday, and it is 11am atm, so i have been in the raid for 21 hours
i am in front of the keyboard for past 21 hours, i am doing decent dps, also i have the right to share what the boss/mob dropped.....
so you are trying to discuss and ban cross-guild raiding? don't forget...there are many guild just simply can't form a raid on their own man...

[iamjacksrage]

^ lol is this like a fan club starting here? didn't think i was important enough to have a fan :-D

[Abacab]

No one mentions the fact that I managed to run Draco all around the firewall and wipe Abraham's smug ass with an AoE :)

[Bossco]

.

[Olorin]

is this the attitude of the players doing endgame stuff on this server? am I going to get steamrolled by IB because they think a group of mixed guilds and/or unguildeds can't handle a zone? Or is this guy just a douchebag trying to justify shit

Discuss

His question is legitimate I believe -- If guild #1 looks at members of a raid force in a zone for a raid and sees there is less then he is going to think he has a shot at beating them. If zerg guild #2 is including people not in their guild, the how is the leader of guild #1 going to know this?

Take Naggy for example -- Can a raid force consist of 9 guilded members and 6 untagged folks exping at royals?

Rules have been made and I personally would like to see the rules followed in a gentlemanly fashion -- I don't think that is going to happen. Whether you take time stamped ss or whatever -- something needs to be done, or it will just go back to the way it was.

[anthony210]

His question is legitimate I believe -- If guild #1 looks at members of a raid force in a zone for a raid and sees there is less then he is going to think he has a shot at beating them. If zerg guild #2 is including people not in their guild, the how is the leader of guild #1 going to know this?

Take Naggy for example -- Can a raid force consist of 9 guilded members and 6 untagged folks exping at royals?

Rules have been made and I personally would like to see the rules followed in a gentlemanly fashion -- I don't think that is going to happen. Whether you take time stamped ss or whatever -- something needs to be done, or it will just go back to the way it was.

No one seems to be having any problems with the rules except IB. The other guilds seem to be getting along just fine.

[Kinamur1999]

Maybe i missed it but how did all of this go down?

IB claimed they were in the right and took him?

[girth]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this post.

If other guilds are doing it, you think IB won't? He's just making sure on some of the fine print before he starts exploiting it. I'm sure they will pull something with like 3 tagged and 12 untagged just because they can - and according to everybody on here - they can.

Rogean - need to chillax man - if you have ANY kind of raid rules implemented or enforced by GMs - expect shit like this because rules are open to interpretation and regardless of intentions - clarification is needed

PS - this is what the alphabet would look like if there were no Q and R

[Rania]

I think I just fell in love with Rogeon.

Completely agree. In answer to the question, yes a guild can have 5 members + 10 randoms if they damn well please ! However as has been evidenced in this thread, that was not the case.

[ooantipostoo]

WOW GUYS THATS A HARD CONCEPT BUT NO I'M TOO FUCKING SELFISH AND NEEDY AND I NEED TO FIND A WAY AROUND THE RULES TO MAKE MYSELF FEEL BETTER



Editing my post, dont want to start anything. Agree with this though seems to be people are always trying to find away around rules.

[Taluvill]

His question is legitimate I believe -- If guild #1 looks at members of a raid force in a zone for a raid and sees there is less then he is going to think he has a shot at beating them. If zerg guild #2 is including people not in their guild, the how is the leader of guild #1 going to know this?

Take Naggy for example -- Can a raid force consist of 9 guilded members and 6 untagged folks exping at royals?

Rules have been made and I personally would like to see the rules followed in a gentlemanly fashion -- I don't think that is going to happen. Whether you take time stamped ss or whatever -- something needs to be done, or it will just go back to the way it was.

That depends on the zone. For Nagafen, him being the only exception, i would imagine you have to be guilded or at the staging area -- this can be debated but the fire giant safe spot or physically running with the guild would be appropriate i would imagine.

The people on this server seem to want to find a way around every rule no matter what. Its ridiculous tbh. They need everything written out in a 2000 page legal document talking through every single possible exploit thats not allowed, but then they will complain that it is too long. Idk.

I personally believe people need to start being more apt to be friendly and ask a raid leader/officer if the other people in the fear/hate/perma zone are with their guild. Sol B is different imo.

[Loke]

Wow. So much hate for IB, and we're not even the guild cockblocking everyone else...

Bossco, you know we're cool and all, but really? IB has been cockblocking every other guild on this server for months now.

[Aeolwind]

TL;DR. To answer the original question: A raid force does not require guild tags. 15 is 15. If it did, pick up groups wouldn't be even considered and could be ignored, and that is not the case.

[GagIuk]

I'm ban evading again so this got edited out.

[fefifofum]

Bossco, you know we're cool and all, but really? IB has been cockblocking every other guild on this server for months now.

Amen! lol

[Beau]

cant just let the players duke it out themselves? do they really lack that much of a real social life that they have to control every little thing in their little pirated felonious illegal world they made

In Classic EQ, Gm's really couldn't intervene like they do here on player agree'd raid rotations/rules. The only thing they could do is check logs to confirm who first engaged and who attempted ks/ninja, if that were the problem.

Any sort of player made rules was on honor system and enforced in one way or another by the players. At least on my server.

[Evorix]

Maybe i missed it but how did all of this go down?

IB claimed they were in the right and took him?


The main idea was to have the first 15 members to claim Cazic Thule and the golems. DA was having 15 members in fear for CT overnight during the early morning hours. IB came in after DA. The rules state that if the raid force drops below 15 members the other guild present with 15 members has claim. CT didn't spawn during this time frame.

[Beau]

More on that...

The argument in live classic was, player made rules were generally agreed upon by a group of players, not ALL players, outside of the game on a player administered webpage that was not outlined as a game requirement in the eula.

Technically, it is NOT classic for a GM to intervene for clarification, punishment or "deathtouching the raid and despawning the mob." The Gm can watch to make sure it's pulled, killed and looted fairly. But to enforced player agreed rules is not legit .

I really love this server , And really love what you guys are trying to do here, but thats just a gross abuse of power, and far far from classic ruling. You ban people for ninjalooting, kiting trains, stealing established pulls, and many other reasons. Not for having the first force to kill a mob (first force to kill is first to engage. if you can sit there for 20 minutes and cant pull it first, you cant kill it)

Thats just my two cents, feel free to flame away if you disagree. I just think this current system is really silly.

[Aeolwind]

Technically, it is NOT classic for a GM to intervene for clarification, punishment or "deathtouching the raid and despawning the mob." The Gm can watch to make sure it's pulled, killed and looted fairly. But to enforced player agreed rules is not legit .



Not entirely true. On Emarr Uini had finally had enough of a guild called Ebonlore, she disbanded the guild, banned Ewle the guild leader & made a serverwide announcement regarding that fact. This is amongst the long list of things that Uini did, among them were depopping mobs, death touching guild leaders & banning players.

On several occasions on Emarr player "enforced" rotations were upheld and maintained by the GM's, and I remember it occurring on a few other servers as well.

[Beau]

I've seen gm's fired for that.~

[Evorix]

can't get fired if you own the server

[Beau]

can't get fired if you own the server

Right but thats kinda the point...

[Beau]

Nilbog has made it very clear he is a true classicist. That means at some point they need to back off and let the players handle the raid disputes amongst themselves. This is not a programming issue that takes time to fix or figure out a bug or glitch, its a moral/judgement issue. "When can we back off and let the players handle their own problems."

If a mob is bugged, thats where the gm's intervene. If a guild trains , uses vulgarity, ninjaloots or Attempts/succeeds and kill steal, thats where gm intervenes. If players break their own rules, that's their own honor, and there are ways of handling it.

If i make a new guild tomorrow would they be subject to these rules? They had no part in making or agreeing to them. So technically they are not a part of it.

Like I said before ... Silly. Childish and silly.

[anthony210]

Nilbog has made it very clear he is a true classicist. That means at some point they need to back off and let the players handle the raid disputes amongst themselves. This is not a programming issue that takes time to fix or figure out a bug or glitch, its a moral/judgement issue. "When can we back off and let the players handle their own problems."

If a mob is bugged, thats where the gm's intervene. If a guild trains , uses vulgarity, ninjaloots or Attempts/succeeds and kill steal, thats where gm intervenes. If players break their own rules, that's their own honor, and there are ways of handling it.

If i make a new guild tomorrow would they be subject to these rules? They had no part in making or agreeing to them. So technically they are not a part of it.

Like I said before ... Silly. Childish and silly.

There has to be some order and rules to raiding. Otherwise a guild like IB or any guild really that has the power to can say "Fuck you all we are taking every raid mob and there is nothing you can do about it, even if we got there second we are pulling and engaging".

Without order there is chaos, and I even though I wasnt there for it I believe this is the reason the rotation was put in and also the reason we now have these set of rules.

And by the way, rotations and various other rules were upheld by GMs on various live servers. On my server we had a rotation!

[iamjacksrage]

I'm pretty sure it's not IB as a whole. I've met a few players in the guild who were overly generous to me on many occasions.

Since we're on the topic of childishness, you might wanna try blaming the individuals and NOT the whole guild.

[nilbog]

That means at some point they need to back off and let the players handle the raid disputes amongst themselves.

This is how we started the server. If you're really interested in how the current rules developed, I'm sure its still available in search. Days and days of posts in there.

I would.. *love* to never have to be called to intervene on anything. The prospect that players can decide things for themselves was and is the goal. It did NOT happen like that here.

I don't have the time to type up the whole story for you, but I'm sure other people know it and like I said, a plethora of reading is available in the search.

We gave the players... more than enough time and opportunities for their own rules. Then weeks of suggestions.

This needs more effort from the players, *not* the GMs. Please work out things amongst yourselves, and never call us. You don't have to follow our stupid rules if you can police yourselves. If a GM is called.. be prepared for a verdict though, just like on Live.

I can't stress strongly enough about how bad it was prior to raid rules. Wow.

[TheDudeAbides]

I'm pretty sure it's not IB as a whole. I've met a few players in the guild who were overly generous to me on many occasions.

Since we're on the topic of childishness, you might wanna try blaming the individuals and NOT the whole guild.

http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7491

[Kinamur1999]

http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7491

Jeffreys homepage

[iamjacksrage]

I love the idea of the whole self police thing... but even if we made the most fool-proof rules some people would still find loop holes around it.

As far as policing ourselves, when someone does break a rule all you can really do as a player is OOC about it (which usually ends up you getting flamed as well; not to mention global OOC will probably dissapear here in a few) or come post on R&F (ditto)... or simply /ignore the offender(which is what ghandi would do; but doesn't really solve anything) or call a GM in (which could inadvertently lead to you getting in trouble regardless of your innocence).

Without the ability to carry out consequence player policing doesn't really do much.

[Ihealyou]

I've been able to play here for a couple months without making a post whining about someone taking my camp, etc. Granted, I'm not level 50, and therefore do not have the obligation to let the entire server know of my problems, but maybe you guys should try it.

[Gorgetrapper]

I'm pretty sure it's not IB as a whole. I've met a few players in the guild who were overly generous to me on many occasions.

Since we're on the topic of childishness, you might wanna try blaming the individuals and NOT the whole guild.

IB as a whole is MUCH better than DA, and that's a fact.

[Otto]

This is how we started the server. If you're really interested in how the current rules developed, I'm sure its still available in search. Days and days of posts in there.

I would.. *love* to never have to be called to intervene on anything. The prospect that players can decide things for themselves was and is the goal. It did NOT happen like that here.

I don't have the time to type up the whole story for you, but I'm sure other people know it and like I said, a plethora of reading is available in the search.

We gave the players... more than enough time and opportunities for their own rules. Then weeks of suggestions.

This needs more effort from the players, *not* the GMs. Please work out things amongst yourselves, and never call us. You don't have to follow our stupid rules if you can police yourselves. If a GM is called.. be prepared for a verdict though, just like on Live.

I can't stress strongly enough about how bad it was prior to raid rules. Wow.

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.

Like I've said from the beginning, we were never allowed to even attempt 'first to engage' rules like on live because Allizia and I were instantly and repeatedly told to stop or summoned to different zones to try and come up with some play nice rules.

Right now its a shit fest with people AFK camping literally for days, prohibiting guild members from even enjoying the game if they want to do something other than sit in a zone with a raid target for 24 hours to maintain a pointless number for a raid target.

Edit: And I can understand why you could think its better now, being absent from the picture a large portion of the time.

And by absent, I mean doing much more important things and not even concerning yourself with the end game guilds. Which is how it should be.

[anthony210]

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.

Like I've said from the beginning, we were never allowed to even attempt 'first to engage' rules like on live because Allizia and I were instantly and repeatedly told to stop or summoned to different zones to try and come up with some play nice rules.

Right now its a shit fest with people AFK camping literally for days, prohibiting guild members from even enjoying the game if they want to do something other than sit in a zone with a raid target for 24 hours to maintain a pointless number for a raid target.

Edit: And I can understand why you could think its better now, being absent from the picture a large portion of the time.

And by absent, I mean doing much more important things and not even concerning yourself with the end game guilds. Which is how it should be.

Otto but it has come to people doing this because of the level IB has taken raiding to on this server. I am not saying it is wrong that the IB guys can move on targets so fast but others cant and so they have to camp and hope for a spawn while they are there.

I would LOVE to not have to camp a raid target to get boss kills, unfortunatly for everyone that isnt in IB you pretty much have to. This is one of the reasons I am for a rotation, this way everyone can have a chance to down bosses and not just a select few guilds.

[Neno]

IB as a whole is MUCH better than DA, and that's a fact.

Alpha level was set to .90 I imagine?

[Arkanjil]

Alpha level was set to .90 I imagine?

I like your statistical mind my friend! ;)

[girth]

Every guild has assholes, get over it. Also, first to engage FTW.

[Otto]

Otto but it has come to people doing this because of the level IB has taken raiding to on this server. I am not saying it is wrong that the IB guys can move on targets so fast but others cant and so they have to camp and hope for a spawn while they are there.

I would LOVE to not have to camp a raid target to get boss kills, unfortunatly for everyone that isnt in IB you pretty much have to. This is one of the reasons I am for a rotation, this way everyone can have a chance to down bosses and not just a select few guilds.

IB brought raiding to a standard live-like level. In fact, I'll be the first to say on live there were plenty of guilds both more talented and hardcore than us.

[anthony210]

IB brought raiding to a standard live-like level. In fact, I'll be the first to say on live there were plenty of guilds both more talented and hardcore than us.

But why does this server have to be so hardcore. Why cant we all just get along and take turns killing bosses? Why does there have be this constant bickering between guilds over who has 15 or who dropped below 15 or whos guild has is favored by GMs?

Even if we dont take turns why cant guilds just use some common sense and say "Hey, it looks like DA was here first, lets let them have the first shot even if we think they will wipe".

Instead we have this "OMG DA dropped below 15 players! They lost their turn!".

[Modus]

IB brought raiding to a standard live-like level. In fact, I'll be the first to say on live there were plenty of guilds both more talented and hardcore than us.

Sullon Zek population makes P99's look like sandbox-snot-nose children.

IB has done nothing more than play cell-phone commando on a server where they've recruited 60% of the level 50 population, and with an 8-month start over the guild that's kicking their ass at the moment.

4/6 raid targets went to Dark Ascension this round, and IB is quickly mobilizing to have the rules they wanted changed in their favor, again.

Looks like you'll have to transfer to EZ-Server if you want to dominate newbs.

edit:
http://icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=16821&pictureid=385371

[eqdruid76]

hardcore raiding is a disease, mmmmkay?

I'll cure you at the tunnel, if you like....

[Arkanjil]

So, today is Saturday and my day off. I went out for a nice jog this morning and took my dog to the dog park.

Currently I'm reading this thread and eating an AMAZING breakfast burrito from Taco Express with, of course, hot sauce.

The breakfast burrito > this thread.

[Raren]

QQ Wonton

[Arkanjil]

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/Arkanjil_photos/SpecialOlympics.jpg

[fefifofum]

Gorgetrapper, shut your trap. imo (=

[Gorgetrapper]

And what gives you the right to tell anyone to do anything? Exactly.

[sidi]

And what gives you the right to tell anyone to do anything? Exactly.

lol at this

[fefifofum]

what gives you the right to go off and talk about things/guild you obviously dont know about.. unless you are in DA or IB..

or your someone who got kicked out of anyone of these guilds.. and now you are a bit bitter..

i can go and say what i want and please FYI just like you do, you dont have to listen.. just voicing my opinion.

[moebius8]

But why does this server have to be so hardcore. Why cant we all just get along and take turns killing bosses? Why does there have be this constant bickering between guilds over who has 15 or who dropped below 15 or whos guild has is favored by GMs?

Even if we dont take turns why cant guilds just use some common sense and say "Hey, it looks like DA was here first, lets let them have the first shot even if we think they will wipe".

Instead we have this "OMG DA dropped below 15 players! They lost their turn!".

that is how classic was, i dont know if its because i played on live/progression from oct 99 to jan 2010 or because i have a better memory then most however this is the exact same shit that happened constantly until end game content was instanced.

You cant bitch about a guild with a decent organization cockblocking the rest because is exactly how business was conducted.
the only way to win is to be more rabid and hardcore then who ever is on top. Luckily no guild can maintain the pace for long so bide your time and get your kills where you can.
if you can get the second best cleric and tank it will put a lot of pressure on whoever is left carrying the load fyi.

The members burn out and then the next line who manages to hold their shit together gets a chance at the content. just keep chipping away and if you can cause some dissension in the ranks of which ever guild is currently on top. Nothing like a nice guild schism to shake the old server rankings up.

[Prospect]

Those guys in IB....JERKS I SAY

[snifs]

FFA

k tks bye

[Taluvill]

What sucks is that now that IB doesn't have a raid system coded by its guild leader that favors them because they knew it was broken for a whole two-three months while everyone is in the dark. Now that the current GM's have fixed it, DA seems to be gaining the upper hand on mobs these days and winning the mobilization battle.

See, now that begs the question of if it was ever actually broken or if it was intended to be like that... ?

PS: I wish i could have heard the schoolgirl giggling in IB's vent just before they called their rolecall on us. hah.

[Otto]

I wish Modus and Taluvill had some idea of what IB has wanted from the start, but they clearly prefer their perverse, bullshit version of whats been happening so they could slander and libel against people they don't even know.

Lawl lets troll the boards more so the unintelligent people can base their judgments on people they don't even know purely on hearsay and rumors~

[Gorgetrapper]

what gives you the right to go off and talk about things/guild you obviously dont know about.. unless you are in DA or IB..

or your someone who got kicked out of anyone of these guilds.. and now you are a bit bitter..

i can go and say what i want and please FYI just like you do, you dont have to listen.. just voicing my opinion.

Because that's what an outsider does when you have people from a guild bitching and moaning about not getting raid targets. Then you have one guild (DA), who trains other guilds constantly. Don't deny it, because plenty of people have screenshots of it. I think the main person is Tajiki or whoever that monk is in DA. Grats on being in a shitguild.

[ryuut1]

just make it all FFA. enough with the pussyfooting.

KSing should be allowed.

[Neno]

Because that's what an outsider does when you have people from a guild bitching and moaning about not getting raid targets. Then you have one guild (DA), who trains other guilds constantly. Don't deny it, because plenty of people have screenshots of it. I think the main person is Tajiki or whoever that monk is in DA. Grats on being in a shitguild.

Good thing I was handing out loot from guk and sol to people in WC/Gfay to balance out these atrocities!

Seriously though we don't intentionally train other guilds. If you have a problem with a member PLEASE take it up with one of our officers. We've removed people for being problems in the past especially if they are trial members. If you have proof by all means submit it to someone and we will look into. No need to take the actions of one person (purposeful or not) and generalize an entire guild because of it.

[Prospect]

Good thing I was handing out loot from guk and sol to people in WC/Gfay to balance out these atrocities!

Seriously though we don't intentionally train other guilds. If you have a problem with a member PLEASE take it up with one of our officers. We've removed people for being problems in the past especially if they are trial members. If you have proof by all means submit it to someone and we will look into. No need to take the actions of one person (purposeful or not) and generalize an entire guild because of it.

haha, NICE!

[Erasong]

Good thing I was handing out loot from guk and sol to people in WC/Gfay to balance out these atrocities!

Seriously though we don't intentionally train other guilds. If you have a problem with a member PLEASE take it up with one of our officers. We've removed people for being problems in the past especially if they are trial members. If you have proof by all means submit it to someone and we will look into. No need to take the actions of one person (purposeful or not) and generalize an entire guild because of it.

you guys invited daverik. While not a trainer ( that i know of ) hes been caught doing equal asshattery all over the server. /thread

[aVoided]

ahh I'm glad I got the job of a lifetime and pretty much dumped this game due to working 6 days a week. I log on maybe once a week for an hour on a lowbie alt when I'm bored.

It's great to see IB is still a bunch of dirt bags trying to bend and twist everything to thier advantage. Some things never change... and probably never will no matter how many meetings and rules you guys agree on... Just quit the game... get a job.. grow up.. and move on like I did !

Anyway I'm gone.. just the ramblings from an ex player. (Ougly 50 shammy). Try to have fun !

[PhilPhans]

< grabs your butts

[Zyvixious]

you guys invited daverik. While not a trainer ( that i know of ) hes been caught doing equal asshattery all over the server. /thread

Reply With Quote
this effin guy has to be kiddin me? dam retards make it an issue to get my name spread i must be friggen good !

[Taluvill]

ahh I'm glad I got the job of a lifetime and pretty much dumped this game due to working 6 days a week. I log on maybe once a week for an hour on a lowbie alt when I'm bored.

It's great to see IB is still a bunch of dirt bags trying to bend and twist everything to thier advantage. Some things never change... and probably never will no matter how many meetings and rules you guys agree on... Just quit the game... get a job.. grow up.. and move on like I did !

Anyway I'm gone.. just the ramblings from an ex player. (Ougly 50 shammy). Try to have fun !

Ougly is a badass btw

[Prospect]

Ougly is a badass btw

Aww, you're a badass too Taluvill, especially with that new guild tag!

[Taluvill]

Aww, you're a badass too Taluvill, especially with that new guild tag!

Heh. Thanks Man!!

I thought so long and hard about it, but i just couldnt bring myself to be on the same side as deano, sorry dude. we'll still chill tho

[Prospect]

Heh. Thanks Man!!

I thought so long and hard about it, but i just couldnt bring myself to be on the same side as deano, sorry dude. we'll still chill tho

It's cool, enjoy your camps!

[Olorin]

Not entirely true. On Emarr Uini had finally had enough of a guild called Ebonlore, she disbanded the guild, banned Ewle the guild leader & made a serverwide announcement regarding that fact. This is amongst the long list of things that Uini did, among them were depopping mobs, death touching guild leaders & banning players.

On several occasions on Emarr player "enforced" rotations were upheld and maintained by the GM's, and I remember it occurring on a few other servers as well.

Hehe -- Ebonlore, the only guild (that im aware of) to get banned on every mmo they've played on.

[TheDudeAbides]

It's cool, enjoy your camps!

Says the guy who has done nothing with his life for the last 6 months except sit in a zone and camp a raid mob 24/7. At least the other guild makes everyone put in the work equally. You've just been someone's little bitch

[Uaellaen]

everyone put in the work equally.

that is where you should stop .. G A M E ... not W O R K ... if this turns into work, you doing something wrong

[TheDudeAbides]

that is where you should stop .. G A M E ... not W O R K ... if this turns into work, you doing something wrong

I don't disagree, but if you want to kill raid mobs on this server it's become a second job.

DA didn't make it that way. IB did with their 24/7 track cycles, leatherfoot cap gating to zone in wherever they needed to be within 10 min, leapfrogging/cockblocking ways.

What you see now is adaptation and the slippery slope. Who knows how far it will go. It is what it is.

[Cyrano]

I seem to recall an instance where DA jumped ahead of both Trans and IB in terms of the 15 in zone to attack Draco.

Modus calling out anyone on in game discussions is ridiculous. You've trained us on multiple occasions and even with screenshots Durison hasn't touched you. The idea that you guys have removed the so-called "problem" members is laughable. DA's most dedicated member is also it's most underhanded, you set the bar so high (or low depending who's view you take) that anything short of hacking is acceptable behavior in DA.

On the flip side, I realize this isn't true of everyone. I think Loke is a cool guy and have enjoyed the few interactions I've shared with him.

[Cyrano]

And on the rule issue, I think the vast majority of IB wants it to be FFA.

The entire reason Wonton made this post was the shed light on the fact that the current raid climate has changed from when those rules were created.

When those rules were created they were put in place to prevent leapfrogging and protect guilds that were legitimately in a zone clearing when a mob popped. DA is already camping multiple raid zones with 15+ so they might game the system, but now their raids are apparently open to all meaning we have to go through a system of checks with every person in the zone, summon a GM to make sure we won't get banned for attacking a mob instead of playing the game it was originally meant to be played; as an open competition.

[Prospect]

Says the guy who has done nothing with his life for the last 6 months except sit in a zone and camp a raid mob 24/7. At least the other guild makes everyone put in the work equally. You've just been someone's little bitch

Well, had you taken up my offer on the powerleveling, I would have managed to do something else!

You could have saved me from the torment! It breaks my heart that I will now have to collectively share my poop socking with 14 other people. DAMN YOU P99!

[Armin34]

And on the rule issue, I think the vast majority of IB wants it to be FFA.

The entire reason Wonton made this post was the shed light on the fact that the current raid climate has changed from when those rules were created.

When those rules were created they were put in place to prevent leapfrogging and protect guilds that were legitimately in a zone clearing when a mob popped. DA is already camping multiple raid zones with 15+ so they might game the system, but now their raids are apparently open to all meaning we have to go through a system of checks with every person in the zone, summon a GM to make sure we won't get banned for attacking a mob instead of playing the game it was originally meant to be played; as an open competition.

Sounds like a bunch of crying

Here is what Nilbog posted on the Raid Rules / Reference : http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2670&highlight=raid+target


FAQ

Q: What is a raid force?
A: For technicalities sake we will define a raid force as a gathering of 15+ people.

Q: What if I engage first?
A: If you are not the first raid force at a target, and you engage the creature before their 30 minute grace period is up then those involved in breaking the rules will be banned for fourteen days for the first offense.

Q: Both guilds got here simultaneously. What do we do?
A: In the rare case that both guilds feel they got there first than you can either work out a compromise on your own or if in a dire need, use random 100... srsly.

Q: Can we continue to camp the raid mobs?
A: Certainly. If you want to have fifteen of your guild members sitting at every spawn site (six mobs to be precise) for 96 hours straight anticipating a spawn with the ability to mobilize not only those fifteen people but as well as any other required members to kill your intended target, all within the 30 minute time frame. By all means go ahead. I am sure after a few failed sessions due to not being able to mobilize quick enough, people won`t be willing to sit there for 4 days straight for months on end.

Q: Can we stall for time?
A: We understand that sometimes you have to stop to buff or med up or prep or whatever. Please avoid stalling for time for the sake of stalling. If you are the only guild after a target than you are free to to take your time, but as soon as a second guild is sitting behind you prepping that should be your sign to speed things up and get to the target (if you are not already there).

Q: Will the planes be open to everyone?
A: Yes. Please be respectful to your fellow players and respect their space. If there is a guild getting ready to raid Hate for some armour and they start pulling creatures, don`t go up there and sit on top of them pulling mobs in their area as well. If Guild A is doing Hate, then perhaps Guild B should be doing Fear. Basically, don`t be a douche bag.

Q: Why is there a spawn variance? This isn`t classic!
A: While we strive to be as accurate as we can in terms of classic content, this is something that we feel is necessary to keep things running smooth. The spawn variance method we believe will prove to promote both fairness and competition. Please note that we do not refresh the mob spawn times with a crash or patch. On live all raid targets re-spawned with a patch which usually caused bunches of raid targets to spawn. So on live Nagafen or Vox kills were not always exactly one week apart.

Q: Why did you remove the rotation?
A: While the rotation has worked extremely well in the past few weeks, it has always been seen as a temporary solution. It works great when there are only two guilds that are involved but as soon as more guilds get closer to being able to raid it becomes a little bit less viable and thus we have decided upon a spawn variance.

Q: Where can I deposit my tears?
A: As always your tears and crying of favouritism are important to us; for without you we couldn`t possibly run things around there. You are the wind beneath my wings. Please direct your tears to the Petition/Exploit Forum or in more serious cases of hissy fits, Nilbog's Inbox.

Cyrano ^


It appears IB is whining because they don't have the luxury of staying logged off and waiting for a cellphone text message. Now they have to compete with camping for a mob. How is this possible?!

[Modus]

It appears IB is whining because they don't have the luxury of staying logged off and waiting for a cellphone text message. Now they have to compete with camping for a mob.

This.

[Erasong]

you guys invited daverik. While not a trainer ( that i know of ) hes been caught doing equal asshattery all over the server. /thread

Reply With Quote
this effin guy has to be kiddin me? dam retards make it an issue to get my name spread i must be friggen good !

you've done a fine job of spreading your own name. If you feel the need to be E-famous, and feel the need to do it by being one of the largest douches online, feel free. No one can stop you and hell I dont even really care. My bringing up your name had little to do with you ( trust me you arent that important ) in particular and more to do with peoples reputations and getting guild invites. I happen to know a few good people in DA so I wont judge them as a whole, but your rep proceeds you and thats what surprised me.

[kariden]

so they could slander and libel against people they don't even know.


oh shit son, best call the legal department and start demanding some Platinum pieces in compensation.

Ironic you would use the terms "slander" and "libel" when referring about a virtual world, a place where such terms have zero meaning.

This is a good read, however some of you need trolling lessons.

[Cyrano]

QQ

[Derpus]

this remains a p good thread despite some v bad posting at times. keep up the good work gentlemen.

[TheDudeAbides]

And on the rule issue, I think the vast majority of IB wants it to be FFA.

The entire reason Wonton made this post was the shed light on the fact that the current raid climate has changed from when those rules were created.

When those rules were created they were put in place to prevent leapfrogging and protect guilds that were legitimately in a zone clearing when a mob popped. DA is already camping multiple raid zones with 15+ so they might game the system, but now their raids are apparently open to all meaning we have to go through a system of checks with every person in the zone, summon a GM to make sure we won't get banned for attacking a mob instead of playing the game it was originally meant to be played; as an open competition.

What do you mean by FFA? You mean training/leapfrogging?

[Cyrano]

If that's part of it I'm ok with it, in that type of situation the true colors of individuals and guilds alike will begin to shine through.

[TheDudeAbides]

If that's part of it I'm ok with it, in that type of situation the true colors of individuals and guilds alike will begin to shine through.

http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7491

[Loke]

I think Loke is a cool guy and have enjoyed the few interactions I've shared with him.

Quoted for truth. Ditto guy.

This thread needs more <3.

Off topic story; once someone quoted me and wrote "qft" which I thought was "quit fucking talking", when really he meant "quoted for truth".. so I laid into the guy and looked like a huge cock. Good times.

[Erasong]

Quoted for truth. Ditto guy.

This thread needs more <3.

Off topic story; once someone quoted me and wrote "qft" which I thought was "quit fucking talking", when really he meant "quoted for truth".. so I laid into the guy and looked like a huge cock. Good times.

QFT....WHICH ONE DID I MEAN LOKE!?!? <3

whats funny is i think half of DA and half of IB are actually very friendly outside of the raids. How do we bring that same spirit into the raids? We figure that out, and the issues die imo.

Elaida 50 Paladin <Inglourious Basterds>
Eliada 35 Shadow Knight.

[spoolie]

Ya i think that to Elaida. I have never had a bad run in with any IB at anytime and I am in DA. It just when it comes to raid time, the competitiveness comes out in some. Everyone wants to slay the dragon, and if they can't then its QQ time... I mean what am I saying fuck IB and everything you stand for!!@!@!! =D j/k

[Dabamf]

The hilarity is that thedudeabides got all butthurt that IB had trackers in every raid zone 24/7, talking about no lives and all that. Now his guild / former guild camped every raid mob last week 24/7--that is, 15+ people rather than 1--and he is cool with that.

So, 1 person 24/7 is sad and pathetic. 15+ people 24/7 isn't. That's Jeffrey logic.

My favorite part in this whole thread though was when he said, in summary, that IB forced DA to camp because they were too fast and organized to be beaten any other way.

[Aadill]

Last time on draco, IB called a roll call on DA 5 seconds after it spawned.

The only way to do that is to have 15 yourself.

Needin dem lootz

[TheDudeAbides]

The hilarity is that thedudeabides got all butthurt that IB had trackers in every raid zone 24/7, talking about no lives and all that. Now his guild / former guild camped every raid mob last week 24/7--that is, 15+ people rather than 1--and he is cool with that.

So, 1 person 24/7 is sad and pathetic. 15+ people 24/7 isn't. That's Jeffrey logic.

My favorite part in this whole thread though was when he said, in summary, that IB forced DA to camp because they were too fast and organized to be beaten any other way.

You exploited leatherfoot caps

Nothing more

Oh wait. You answered txt msgs 24/7

[Aadill]

The important thing here is that the spirit of the rules are applying to any group of people trying to kill a mob. Groups, raids, soloers... doesn't matter.

As it stands, the question you are bringing up implies the only people killing targets are going to be guilds. The rules should have no mention of guilds or friends or anything... simply "players." The reasons for this are becoming more obvious as situations arise: there could be applicants/trial members who are not guilded yet, or as more content opens up, public pickup raids. The rules should be in place to protect their chance at killing mobs, not guaranteeing drops for any particular guild.

You put this in guild discussion, but the subject matter should be a server discussion; and the posts read like R&F.

[Charyz]

The hilarity is that thedudeabides got all butthurt that IB had trackers in every raid zone 24/7, talking about no lives and all that. Now his guild / former guild camped every raid mob last week 24/7--that is, 15+ people rather than 1--and he is cool with that.

So, 1 person 24/7 is sad and pathetic. 15+ people 24/7 isn't. That's Jeffrey logic.

My favorite part in this whole thread though was when he said, in summary, that IB forced DA to camp because they were too fast and organized to be beaten any other way.

You're aware you guys had 15+ afk in hate this morning right?

Pot - kettle - lol

[Tudana]

Possibly 5~ more months and the play field gets bigger, more targets for all.

I cant wait

[Loke]

QFT....WHICH ONE DID I MEAN LOKE!?!? <3

whats funny is i think half of DA and half of IB are actually very friendly outside of the raids. How do we bring that same spirit into the raids? We figure that out, and the issues die imo.

YOU QFT JERK! Oh, wait.

Seriously though, I think you're right. I mean, I knew a lot of IB from IV or leveling up, so I get along with those people since it's silly to let a guild tag get in the way of a friendship; but beyond that, even during some of our guild conflicts I've met people who were really chill. Hell, perfect example is after that whole Innoruuk mess, Vittra sent me a tell to congratulate me on getting the Rakusha Cloak. Despite the fact that both guilds were in the process of fighting over the claim to naggy, we had a very civil and pleasant conversation.

My whole take on the thing is that when it comes to IB as a whole, they're like Edgewood. By that I mean, when I played highschool soccer, Edgewood was kind of a rival and as such, I wanted to beat them. However, my spring select team had a couple players from Edgewood on it, and as long as my highschool wasn't playing them, we were cool as shit. That didn't mean I wasn't going to fuck them up on the field if our schools were playing in the fall though.

But mostly, QFT ASSHOLE!!!!!1111one

[Modus]

whats funny is i think half of DA and half of IB are actually very friendly outside of the raids.

Lies, lies, bold faced lies!!!

I eat the childen of IB's mothers! I drink the blood of their virgins! I piss on their shallow graves and lay waste to their fruitless lives with seething hatred and vindictive rancor!!

[Aeolwind]

Pretty sure this thread has derailed/rerailed/derailed/rerailed enough. Gonna close it so it doesn't devolve into something that should be in R&F.