Exp penalty clarification? Bugged?

[JayFiveAlive]

I started a Necro alt with a friend and he made an Enchanter. For the first 5 levels we leveled side by side without killing on our own, etc. we made our guys together so I know its not trickery!

Gnome Necro with no pet.

High-Elf Enchanter with no pet.

We kill a few things DING - enchanter is almost 1.5 yellow above my Necro. Wtf! Ok, so he logs and I even up exp. He logs back in once I level, and we kill again, again no pets.

DING 2 yellow above me? WTF is going on.


Fast forward to level 4, get pet out and we level together.. ding 2 yellow ahead of me, even with pet?


Do Necro's get exp penalty regardless of pet? I thought Enchanter and Necro were supposed to be in the -10% penalty.


Am I just wrong or is something bugged? :(

[Alifeyl]

I don't know how it works but I have a human necro and my husband has a high elf enchanter, and when we play together with both our pets, he gets a little more exp than I do. He claims he gets a bonus because enchanters are so squishy. 0.0

[Kainzo]

Necros have a 10% penalty and Gnomes get +5%? That might be why? Unsure at this point.

[Rhalous]

There is a post somewhere with all the class and race experience modifiers, but I do not think that is the issue here. Both necros and enchanters have a 10% xp penalty, so that shouldn't be the problem unless it is a bug. One thing that you need to be aware of is the way xp works with pets. I'd suggest necroing one of those threads. They are somewhere in server chat. You can also look at old patch notes to see how the mechanics work.

It might not seem like a big deal, but if you can replicate a bug, you should def post about it in the bug section on the forums.

[Malrubius]

From the P1999 FAQ below. Gnome Necro and HE Enchanter should level at the same rate. If not, you should Bug it with all the details you can so they can fix it.

What are the experience penalties/bonuses?
By Race:
Troll -20%
Iksar -20%
Ogre -15%
Barbarian -5%
Halfling +5%

By Class:
Paladin / Shadowknight / Ranger / Bard -40%
Monk -20%
Wizard / Magician / Enchanter / Necromancer -10%
Rogue +9%
Warrior +10%

[Adramelk]

IIRC that list is misleading.

My recollection is that hybrids *require* 40% more exp to level instead of gaining 40% less.

Gaining 40% less would require hybrids to get 67% more exp than, say, a shaman (0% mod) to level.

I also recall race/class penalties being multiplicative - that is, a Troll SK requires 1.68x normal exp (1.4 * 1.2) for being both a Troll and a Shadowknight. This is opposed to the additive case where they require 1.6x (+40% +20%).

[Malrubius]

True enough. But as far as the OP's situation is concerned, there should be no difference.

If there is, then it may be a bug.

[Adramelk]

A quick dev peek into zone/exp.cpp's AddEXP function ought to do the trick.

The out-of-the-box EQEmu code gives +5% bonus XP to Halflings, Rogues, and Warriors, but nothing else. (It also gives them bonus XP instead of requiring less to level [basically, this is a change in the code from classic regarding where this happens].)

[Kainzo]

It could be a number of things. The mobs you are killing could be different levels.. if you arent in a party - thats definitely something.

Killing 5 orcs at lvl 1 vs killing 5 bats at level one mean completely different exp.

What were the cons? were you in a grp? Remake two characters, put them in a group and see if the level gain is the same.

[JayFiveAlive]

Thanks guys, we are definitely in a party together, so that cuts out in zone or mob exp bonuses, etc.

We are physically in the same group, sharing exp.

[Asun]

As I've been levelling I've definitely felt that it was slower than other classes/races. For an example, I dinged the other day, lvl 19 or 20 within a kill or 2 of a Barbarian Shaman in my group. Then he dinged the next level in the same group a whole yellow bubble ahead of me. I am a Gnome Wizard btw. Maybe someone in the know could take a look at Gnomish exp rates?

According to that table the barb shaman should've dinged after me.

[Adramelk]

As I've been levelling I've definitely felt that it was slower than other classes/races. For an example, I dinged the other day, lvl 19 or 20 within a kill or 2 of a Barbarian Shaman in my group. Then he dinged the next level in the same group a whole yellow bubble ahead of me. I am a Gnome Wizard btw. Maybe someone in the know could take a look at Gnomish exp rates?

According to that table the barb shaman should've dinged after me.

Barb shaman (5% penalty) should level slightly before a gnome wizard (10% penalty) but certainly not by a whole yellow.

[azxten]

I think I know what the bug is. As stated in this producer letter from 2001 group experience is supposed to be split based on experience with a higher experience being rewarded more experience from kills. This would mean an SK of a lower level might still have more experience and thus be given more experience per kill. This makes the leveling rate appear more or less equal in groups and has the desired effect of keeping friends who play together in the same level range.

The "experience penalty" is actually supposed to be a higher requirement of experience to level not a reduction in experience. If experience is being removed instead an SK would get less experience per kill than a Wizard and thus the Wizard will end up with more experience and as a result end up getting even more experience per kill as the "higher experience" in the group even as the SK continually moves farther down in levels.

It's like the opposite of what was intended because experience is being removed instead of a higher requirement being set as the penalty instead. Of course, I could be completely wrong but it seems to fit the scenario.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/editorial/011401_EQ_Producers_letter.html

Regarding group experience bonus:

Currently, the bonus is an additional 2% experience per group member, not counting the first one, leading to a maximum bonus of 10%.

Regarding "hybrid penalty":

Though people often refer to the class-based penalties as the "Hybrid Penalty", most classes have a penalty. Hybrids just have the largest. A hybrid requires 40% more experience to level than standard, Monks require 20% more, and Intelligence casters require 10% additional experience.

Regarding group experience in general:

In regards to the sharing of the experience penalty, it was apparent in beta, before the penalty was shared, that those playing characters without an experience penalty leveled faster than those that did. It was obvious that this would occur, but it was to the extreme that a group of friends, all playing together, would become separated to the point that they could no longer group efficiently in the mid to upper-mid levels. So we chose to distribute experience in the group on the basis of the total experience of each member rather than the level, in order to keep groups together.

As such, a level 20 Troll SK, having more experience total than a Human Wizard of the same level, would get more experience from each kill, while the total experience for the kill was unchanged. Essentially, the SK would take part of the Wizard's share were everything distributed equally to begin with.

Oh and this... http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/classes.html?class=4&mid=97372112215269 ...seems to have a good breakdown of how experience works including a list of all the racial/class penalties...

R VALUES -------- Barbarian 105 Dark Elf 100 Dwarf 100 Erudite 100 Gnome 100 Half Elf 100 Halfling 95 High Elf 100 Human 100 Ogre 115 Troll 120 Wood Elf 100

C VALUES -------- Bard 14 Cleric 10 Druid 10 Enchanter 11 Magician 11 Monk 12 Necromancer 11 Paladin 14 Ranger 14 Rogue 9.05 Shadow Knight 14 Shaman 10 Warrior 9 Wizard 11

L VALUES -------- Levels 1-29: 1.0 Levels 30-34: 1.1 Levels 35-39: 1.2 Levels 40-44: 1.3 Levels 45-50: 1.4