ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[xKoopa]

arya gonna show up and take winterfell with her assassin skills? PogChamp

[Shrubwise]

arya gonna show up and take winterfell with her assassin skills? PogChamp

Was a great ending to last night's episode. As soon as da girl with no name entered the room with Arya and a candle I knew what Arya was goina do.

Completely OOC but I think the young woman who plays Arya is kind of chesty IRL and I am curious if they have her boobs taped down or something to make her appear true tomboy as per her character.

[holahouze]

Can a bastard really make a legit claim in GoT ?

I doubt we'll see a Gendry play. Just seems like a lot for nothing ala Braavos / Arya

And Dorn.

...and Riverrun. Nice scenery and all, but what happened other than killing the Blackfish off? The Freys aren't holding onto it.

As to Dorne -- looks like showrunners dropped them like a bad habit. What a mess.

Agree no Gendry. Imagine the fall-out if Jamie were next named King.

[Daywolf]

arya gonna show up and take winterfell with her assassin skills? PogChamp
Arya will come across the hound on her return. They will meet up with Sansa and Brienne. Brienne and the hound will start round two of their heroic battle as Sansa and Arya cry for them to stop. As the two Goliath's lock swords, they kiss, declare their unyielding love for each other and promptly get hitched. :o

..then they'll take Winterfell

[Iandyan]

Knights of the vale gonna take Bolton in the ass in the battle of the bastards?

[Sirken]

Knights of the vale gonna take Bolton in the ass in the battle of the bastards?

yep. just like the Tyrells saved the Lannisters at the battle of blackwater bay, and just like stannis saved the nights watch from mance at the wall.

just when all hope looks lost, the knights of the vale will swoop in to save Sansa and Jon. you can book that.

also the director for ep 9 this season is the same guy that did ep 9 last season )ie: the hardhome episode).

[AzzarTheGod]

...and Riverrun. Nice scenery and all, but what happened other than killing the Blackfish off? The Freys aren't holding onto it.

As to Dorne -- looks like showrunners dropped them like a bad habit. What a mess.

Agree no Gendry. Imagine the fall-out if Jamie were next named King.


I completely understand tying up plotlines, but this has been pretty gross so far in its execution. They really went full Boardwalk Empire mighty quick.

The first few episodes had plenty of room and dead air/dead directing to make something GoT quality. Same with the Jon Snow storyline. Tons of dead time to develop better plots further by now, instead they will just be dropped on us ala Riverrun, Blackfish, Dorn, and Arya/Braavos and the Hound.

There better be some good stuff coming. Nobody cares about the transparent battle of the bastards either.

[holahouze]

I completely understand tying up plotlines, but this has been pretty gross so far in its execution. They really went full Boardwalk Empire mighty quick.

The first few episodes had plenty of room and dead air/dead directing to make something GoT quality. Same with the Jon Snow storyline. Tons of dead time to develop better plots further by now, instead they will just be dropped on us ala Riverrun, Blackfish, Dorn, and Arya/Braavos and the Hound.

There better be some good stuff coming. Nobody cares about the transparent battle of the bastards either.

I care about the up-coming fight, but agree about everything else you've said. This season's storyline has jumped around TWOW, ADWD, AFFC content, with a good measure of the showrunners own story. There have been scenes and episodes I've liked a lot, but the jumping around has yielded a lot of disconnects for me. I expect future episodes will close some of those loops/lapses, but those won't be knitted closely enough for my liking. Won't be watching tonight - got a basketball game I care about. Try to enjoy.

[Pokesan]

voted best rohan 2016

[Nocsucow]

by far the best episode yet... the season finale will be amazing.

[Rogean]

Wun Wun :(

[Old_PVP]

Good episode... but I didn't like how Jon's army just stood there as they slowly were surrounded. That whole scene was too reminiscent of Hannibal's Battle of Cannae against the Romans. The cavalry save was too reminiscent of Lord of the Rings...

Ramsay turning into dog food was pretty awesome though.

[Shrubwise]

Awwww yissss episode had me creamin' my pants. Although I find it hard to believe Ramsey would have killed the giant before headshotting Jon Snow.

Also there's going to be a visit to poundtown. Population: 2. Daenerys Targeryen and Asha Greyjoy.

[gummab]

Started off well with the 5 minutes of epic battle in meereen and ended well with Ramsey,not that a care for Ramsey's death in anyway I just liked the GoT style face eating contest.
Apart from that bring me a bucket to throw up in.

[gummab]

Good episode... but I didn't like how Jon's army just stood there as they slowly were surrounded. That whole scene was too reminiscent of Hannibal's Battle of Cannae against the Romans. The cavalry save was too reminiscent of Lord of the Rings...

Ramsay turning into dog food was pretty awesome though.

When they got surrounded it actually reminded me of 300 when they pushed them off the cliff.

[AzzarTheGod]

Awwww yissss episode had me creamin' my pants. Although I find it hard to believe Ramsey would have killed the giant before headshotting Jon Snow.

Also there's going to be a visit to poundtown. Population: 2. Daenerys Targeryen and Asha Greyjoy.

Would be nice to see more fair representation of LGBT on television.

The emphasis on the agenda is always heavily male on male...give lesbians some shine for once in a major role.

[beyondinfin]

Quite a nice fire and ice themed episode.

[Sage Truthbearer]

Rickon should have serpentined.

[Zuranthium]

Was probably the best edited and photographed episode they've done. They're getting more creative and cinematic.

[username17]

John Snow has gotten better at Shield bash! (1)
John Snow has gotten better at Unarmed! (1)

[AzzarTheGod]

Was probably the best edited and photographed episode they've done. They're getting more creative and cinematic.

This times 100.

Definitely the best cuts I have seen this season, great work by the director and editors on this one. I never played with my phone or looked away for a second. It held me for the full hour, which is what I use as a gauge of whether its hit or miss.

It felt like classic GoT again (compared to the nauseating editing of the first several episodes which essentially caused me to quit watching it live)

[Tasslehofp99]

Wun Wun RIP.

Episode delivered.

+1

so fucking intense, was sad when the giant was felled

[Shrubwise]

John Snow has gotten better at Shield bash! (1)
John Snow has gotten better at Unarmed! (1)

hahaha

[Trungep99]

for those who did not read the novels, what book are they up to in the primary plot?

[xKoopa]

for those who did not read the novels, what book are they up to in the primary plot?

Theyre past the books

This whole season is new content more or less

[Chaboo_Cleric]

Sansa having the last laugh was cake. She didn't mourn once for Ricone. My giant friend is dead though. That dude was a beast.

[derpcake]

great episode

[Trungep99]

Theyre past the books

This whole season is new content more or less

where did the books end the plot at?

[Shinko]

this season was pretty much all new shit

[xKoopa]

where did the books end the plot at?

last season more or less

[Daywolf]

where did the books end the plot at?
I think when Brenock O'Connor got death threats for killing (trigger alert) Jon Snow.. er I mean Kit Harington's fictitious character. So the 16yo actor got death threats from around the world. Not an admitted reason by the writers that I know of, but appeasement is there nonetheless, be it to the fans, the ratings or the psychopaths.

That whole "don't bring me back" scene, I think the writers are in fear for their lives at this point... well...
Just like what happened in sons of anarchy.

[Shrubwise]

I think when Brenock O'Connor got death threats for killing (trigger alert) Jon Snow.. er I mean Kit Harington's fictitious character. So the 16yo actor got death threats from around the world. Not an admitted reason by the writers that I know of, but appeasement is there nonetheless, be it to the fans, the ratings or the psychopaths.

That whole "don't bring me back" scene, I think the writers are in fear for their lives at this point... well...
Just like what happened in sons of anarchy.

Don't know what happened in Sons of Anarchy. You can spoil it and tell me because I got somewhere in Season 2 and lost interest.

Brenock O'Connor has got to have one of the most punchable faces ever.

[Grubbz]

does anyone else think that there is a huge possibility of daenerys and jon hooking up and controlling the iron throne together to fight the white walkers? now im not a book fan so im not sure if that theory can pan out but it would be awesome imo if the show went that way.

[Daywolf]

Don't know what happened in Sons of Anarchy. You can spoil it and tell me because I got somewhere in Season 2 and lost interest.

Brenock O'Connor has got to have one of the most punchable faces ever.
Oh when um Opie was murdered in prison, executed with a baseball bat, he was life long best friend of Jax the main character. So the writers got death threats, which one happens to be Katey Segals husband (from married with children etc.).

Yeah I watched it through, I'm a life-long full-time rider, though far from cheering on any of these horrid characters lol. But it struck me, I wondered if the same thing happened to GoT, did a search and yeah they were laying death threats against the kid who played Olly after Snow was killed.

Like I said though, I don't know if that is why they brought Jon back, especially as they already provided a way for that to happen before hand, but they sure do seem like they are using narrative to incite emotion of the viewers as he faces near death situations. Personally, I was kinda liking the idea of him leading the white walker army and wiping out the entire lot of them :D

[Liegezen]

Am i the only one wondering where Ghost is? He was there when Jon Snow was revived, but nowhere to be seen for the battle? Did i miss something in one of the episodes?

[Daywolf]

Am i the only one wondering where Ghost is? He was there when Jon Snow was revived, but nowhere to be seen for the battle? Did i miss something in one of the episodes?
He's out swangin his booyah! Pups OTW!

[AzzarTheGod]

He's out swangin his booyah! Pups OTW!

This. He's laying pipe.

[gummab]

Am i the only one wondering where Ghost is? He was there when Jon Snow was revived, but nowhere to be seen for the battle? Did i miss something in one of the episodes?

Died off screen,blackfish style :eek:

Did anyone see the big doozie that was shaggydogs head?That thing was the size of a peanut.

[Sage Truthbearer]

Am i the only one wondering where Ghost is? He was there when Jon Snow was revived, but nowhere to be seen for the battle? Did i miss something in one of the episodes?

Jon probably left him at Castle Black for the big fight. Ghost would have done terrible in a huge battle like that and died instantly to an arrow. Personally, I'm fine with not losing another direwolf.

[Shinko]

RIP

Stannis Baratheon
Roose Bolton
Barry Bolton
Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun

show gone to shit now

only good things to watch is lumberjack hound

[Hoozi]

does anyone else think that there is a huge possibility of daenerys and jon hooking up and controlling the iron throne together to fight the white walkers? now im not a book fan so im not sure if that theory can pan out but it would be awesome imo if the show went that way.

Pretty sure they are Fire and Ice.... and the entire story is how i met your mother style of how they hook up to rule the world.

[Shrubwise]

Pretty sure they are Fire and Ice.... and the entire story is how i met your mother style of how they hook up to rule the world.

Not a bad theory ya got there.

[Kender]

It was good but disappointing in many ways

The dragon breath just looked like flame throwers and not a fiery breath.

Dragons shouldn't hover and breath like they did they should strafe the ground. It would be more believable (if a fire breathing dragon can be believable) and would have looked far more epic

the chaos on the field of battle was good but some cuts of it looked too CG. probably needed another week or 2 in post production but that's where television nd movies are different. just not the time or money to do it.

who the hell stands in one place while an army surrounds you.

Wun Wun can knock down a fortified castle door but cant kick a shield wall down? really? he should have been able to breach that wall with ease. after all he could pluck people from it and rip them to bits like tissue paper

Sansa saving the day was far too predictable but not really any other ways that could have gone down if they wanted Jon to stay alive. also.. you have an army of spearmen with shields and spears and none of then reform to set against a cavalry charge? there is a reason why shield/spear formations were great against and negated the advantage of cavalry units in history


don't get me wrong, I did enjoy the episode but this stuff bothered me.

best bit of the whole thing was sansa's smile when ramseys puppies are enjoying their meal

[white]

RIP

Stannis Baratheon
Roose Bolton
Barry Bolton
Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun

show gone to shit now

only good things to watch is lumberjack hound
I don't think stannis is dead. If brianne cut his head off HBO woulda showed it... They aren't afraid of gore and blood

[Sirken]

Am i the only one wondering where Ghost is? He was there when Jon Snow was revived, but nowhere to be seen for the battle? Did i miss something in one of the episodes?
did you not see the last episode? no cgi budget left for ghost

I don't think stannis is dead. If brianne cut his head off HBO woulda showed it... They aren't afraid of gore and blood
Stannis is dead.

[Sirken]

so i know everyone has nerd boners for that last episode, and it was awesome, but nothing was unexpected (except i expected Tormund to die). i will say about Ep9, Jon clawing his way out of that pile of death, could that be considered a "rebirth"? possibly amongst salt and smoke?

lets talk Cersei. i'm pretty convinced the rumor she had Qyburn look into was the old caches of wildfire that King Aerys' pyromancers laced all over Kings Landing. in Ep9 Tyrion specifically mentions these caches and mentions the Sept of Baelor. i think its super likely that Cersei will burn the Sept of Baelor, and eventually try to burn down Kings Landing.
Sidebar - if Cersei admits to incest, or is found guilty of incest, Tommen is no longer king and there is no legal heir. could be a power play by the sparrow coming up.

[AzzarTheGod]

lets talk Cersei. i'm pretty convinced the rumor she had Qyburn look into was the old caches of wildfire that King Aerys' pyromancers laced all over Kings Landing. in Ep9 Tyrion specifically mentions these caches and mentions the Sept of Baelor. i think its super likely that Cersei will burn the Sept of Baelor, and eventually try to burn down Kings Landing.
Sidebar - if Cersei admits to incest, or is found guilty of incest, Tommen is no longer king and there is no legal heir. could be a power play by the sparrow coming up.

Yes lets. I am pretty much only watching the show for Cercei (and Kings Landing) at this point.

[Achilles93]

I could totally see Cersei wanting to incinerate the citizens of King's Landing after her humiliating walk of atonement. But I suspect she will try to lure the Faith Militant into a smaller area and only bbq them.

[Trungep99]

so i know everyone has nerd boners for that last episode, and it was awesome, but nothing was unexpected (except i expected Tormund to die). i will say about Ep9, Jon clawing his way out of that pile of death, could that be considered a "rebirth"? possibly amongst salt and smoke?

lets talk Cersei. i'm pretty convinced the rumor she had Qyburn look into was the old caches of wildfire that King Aerys' pyromancers laced all over Kings Landing. in Ep9 Tyrion specifically mentions these caches and mentions the Sept of Baelor. i think its super likely that Cersei will burn the Sept of Baelor, and eventually try to burn down Kings Landing.
Sidebar - if Cersei admits to incest, or is found guilty of incest, Tommen is no longer king and there is no legal heir. could be a power play by the sparrow coming up.

the real question for upcoming episode 10 is... will the prophecy cercei received about all of her childrens demise come true.

[Hoozi]

the real question for upcoming episode 10 is... will the prophecy cercei received about all of her childrens demise come true.

Yes.

Tommen will be a casualty of the wildfire (purposeful perhaps since he cast Cersei aside), then Jamie will run her through for killing their last child.

[Alarti0001]

Wun Wun can knock down a fortified castle door but cant kick a shield wall down? really? he should have been able to breach that wall with ease. after all he could pluck people from it and rip them to bits like tissue paper



This was the most annoying thing about the episode. Wun Wun swinging his arms ineffectually at the air while surrounded.

[Chaboo_Cleric]

Nah Tom gets killed by little finger or margerie

[AzzarTheGod]

Nah Tom gets killed by little finger or margerie

Interesting perspective what makes you say this?

[Sirken]

the real question for upcoming episode 10 is... will the prophecy cercei received about all of her childrens demise come true.
of course it will

Yes.
Tommen will be a casualty of the wildfire (purposeful perhaps since he cast Cersei aside), then Jamie will run her through for killing their last child.
maybe. i have a hard time seeing her raise a hand against Tommen. i dont think she will burn all of KL this episode, but possibly just the Sept of Baelor. that said i do think cersei will ultimately (or attempt to) burn down kings landing. i think theres a chance jaime stops her, but this time the people know he saved them and he finally gets the credit hes deserved for the last 17 years.

Nah Tom gets killed by little finger or margerie
this is HBO we are talking about. so im sure he'll get killed by the sandsnakes :p

[holahouze]

of course it will


maybe. i have a hard time seeing her raise a hand against Tommen. i dont think she will burn all of KL this episode, but possibly just the Sept of Baelor. that said i do think cersei will ultimately (or attempt to) burn down kings landing. i think theres a chance jaime stops her, but this time the people know he saved them and he finally gets the credit hes deserved for the last 17 years.


this is HBO we are talking about. so im sure he'll get killed by the sandsnakes :p

Jamie saving KL and getting credit this time is HBO-interesting. Will that qualify for Book of the Brothers entry and beef up his resume? And, Tommen is going to be de-legitimized, so Jamie's next in-line. WWND?

My nerd boner this season was for the Bran/Bloodraven storyline. But the storyline was so chopped up, I've gone limp. :(

[Lenas]

Cersei is going to set off an explosion that will accidentally catch Tommen in the CROSS-FIRE (get it?). He's screwed and it will be mommy's fault.

[AzzarTheGod]

Jamie saving KL and getting credit this time is HBO-interesting. Will that qualify for Book of the Brothers entry and beef up his resume? And, Tommen is going to be de-legitimized, so Jamie's next in-line. WWND?

My nerd boner this season was for the Bran/Bloodraven storyline. But the storyline was so chopped up, I've gone limp. :(

Can someone break down how Jamie is next in line? This isn't making sense to me.

[Lenas]

In no world is Jaime next in line.

[AzzarTheGod]

In no world is Jaime next in line.

How come I see multiple people in the thread suggesting he is? I don't understand if its some inside joke for HBO or what?

[holahouze]

Can someone break down how Jamie is next in line? This isn't making sense to me.

Hey - I'm on the run here and can't dig it out. But, I believe Sirken posted Baratheon family tree about a month ago on this board. Its on here. And, remember, this is show only for present, since Tommen kicked Jamie out of Kingsguard.

[India]

Here it is -- Who is next in line for the throne if Tommen dies

http://winteriscoming.net/2016/05/13/game-of-thrones-theorycrafting-who-becomes-king-if-tommen-dies/

[Sirken]

Jamie saving KL and getting credit this time is HBO-interesting. Will that qualify for Book of the Brothers entry and beef up his resume? And, Tommen is going to be de-legitimized, so Jamie's next in-line. WWND?
My nerd boner this season was for the Bran/Bloodraven storyline. But the storyline was so chopped up, I've gone limp. :(

i started to get worried when the show never really made note of the fact that the 3 eyed raven was brynden rivers. and yea, it would certainly beef up Jaimes page in the book. how do you figure Jaime is next in line? IF Tommen is found to be a product of incest, i think the small council will hold another council to decide the king (similar to the council of 101AC). i could also see the sparrow trying to act as regent until a legit king that can not be manipulated shows up

[Sirken]

Here it is -- Who is next in line for the throne if Tommen dies

http://winteriscoming.net/2016/05/13/game-of-thrones-theorycrafting-who-becomes-king-if-tommen-dies/

legally, and based on the info in that article, it would be Kevan Lannister then (assuming Jaime cant be because of the kingsguard vows). Tyrion is a fugitive, and Cersei is a female and cant be ruler unless Dornish Law is installed as the law of the land. and after Kevan it would be Lancel Lannister :p

[holahouze]

legally, and based on the info in that article, it would be Kevan Lannister then (assuming Jaime cant be because of the kingsguard vows). Tyrion is a fugitive, and Cersei is a female and cant be ruler unless Dornish Law is installed as the law of the land. and after Kevan it would be Lancel Lannister :p

I named Jamie because he's not in the Kingsguard. Are you saying those vows stick to him even though Tommen sent him packing? Tywin wanted Jamie to take over Casterly Rock, and that would have taken a move something akin to what Tommen did. Right?

If you can get past the Kingsguard thing, Jamie has the better claim over Kevan. Oldest son (Tywin) vs. younger brother (Kevan).

This is all merely based on Baratheon family tree. As I said when we bantered about this some weeks ago, there should be whole lot of power moves when Tommen bites it.

[Chaboo_Cleric]

Serio Ferell = Jaqen? What u think?

[Lojik]

H + L = J

[Bisonzabi]

You think they're going to place a nerf on Vary's teleportation spell by giving it a cooldown timer? It's pretty fucking overpowered if you ask me.

[Pokesan]

You think they're going to place a nerf on Vary's teleportation spell by giving it a cooldown timer? It's pretty fucking overpowered if you ask me.

littlefinger teleport has nothing on varys teleport. from meereen to dorne and back to meereen in two? episodes

scrub tier in comparison really

schemer vs schemer, hope varys cuts LF balls off

[barrettdc1]

H + L = J

High-Sparrow + Littlefinger = Jamie Lannister?

[AzzarTheGod]

High-Sparrow + Littlefinger = Jamie Lannister?

The dunks

[Rogean]

Varys one of the dragon riders confirmed. Only way he can travel that fast.

[getsome]

Definition of an asshole:

[Sun Jun 26 22:54:33 2016] Shun says out of character, 'I can't believe Cersei killed EVERYONE!'
[Sun Jun 26 22:55:02 2016] [60 Phantasmist] Shun (Dark Elf) <Aftermath> ZONE: sebilis

occured on est time. in sebilis

[Pokesan]

Definition of an asshole:

[Sun Jun 26 22:54:33 2016] Shun says out of character, 'I can't believe Cersei killed EVERYONE!'
[Sun Jun 26 22:55:02 2016] [60 Phantasmist] Shun (Dark Elf) <Aftermath> ZONE: sebilis

occured on est time. in sebilis

it's a tv show. calling someone an asshole for talking about it means you are huge baby

my good chum

[Shrubwise]

So who the hell is Jon Snow's dad?

[Rogean]

So who the hell is Jon Snow's dad?

Rhaegar Targaryen

[AzzarTheGod]

Episode delivered in full GoT quality.

Disappointed with Littlefinger's show treatment right now though. Only serious complaint.

[Sage Truthbearer]

Not sure what was the most epic scene of tonight's finale, but Arya pulling a full on Scott Tenorman on Walder Frey has to be up there.

http://i.imgur.com/TM9X4N5.gif

[Shrubwise]

Rhaegar Targaryen

So Daenerys and Jon come from the same bloodline.
Song of Fire and Ice.
I see where this is going...

[Lune]

So Daenerys and Jon come from the same bloodline.
Song of Fire and Ice.
I see where this is going...

& they are a bloodline that loves incest.

They gonna get married

[Sage Truthbearer]

Daenerys is actually Jon's aunt.

The history to everything is never clearly explained in the show, but TLDR version is there used to be a mad king named Aerys Targaryen who was Rhaegar, Dany, and Viserys' dad.

Jonsnow is the product of when Rhaegar kidnaps Ned Stark's sister, Lyanna, and rapes her.

[R Flair]

not sure if teleports, or different parts of story aren't necessarily taking place concurrently

Surely the amount of time to get together all dany's army and ready ships would have been many weeks. Then again, the time it would have taken to get all those lords together at Winterfell would have been weeks as well.

Come to think of it, all parts of the story were taking jumps in time from one scene to the next.

[beyondinfin]

What in the holy hell fuck did just watch? I'm glad that GOT this year was ready to jump into the holiday spirit, first with last weeks Father Day Bastardbowl and this week with the Independence Day firework display!

So Danny will show up to Cersei on the throne? Good....However I hope Arya gets her first.

[AzzarTheGod]

Meat pies happened.

Cercei went where she needed to be for this season, and Littlefinger was marginalized the entire season and then almost completely fucked over on the finale.

[gummab]

I really don't know what to think,was a good episode but was far to predictable from beginning to end.Most of this episode was seen coming 6/7 weeks ago.

Martin needs to get up of his fat arse and give me my book fix asap.

[AzzarTheGod]

Oh and the musical score this episode. Bravo. Nearly on par with last of the Mohicans for music brilliance.

The directing and cuts were on point. Prior to Episode 9 things were bleak director wise.

[gummab]

Meat pies happened.

Cercei went where she needed to be for this season, and Littlefinger was marginalized the entire season and then almost completely fucked over on the finale.

I'm pretty pissed with the Littlefinger storyline,he was a huge plot from season 1-5.I have a feeling it's going to be Sanza who ends up killing him next season afterall it was him who started the Stark demise.

[Kender]

I'm pretty pissed with the Littlefinger storyline,he was a huge plot from season 1-5.I have a feeling it's going to be Sanza who ends up killing him next season afterall it was him who started the Stark demise.

Sansa started the demise before littlefinger... arya to take out her sister

[AzzarTheGod]

I'm pretty pissed with the Littlefinger storyline,he was a huge plot from season 1-5.I have a feeling it's going to be Sanza who ends up killing him next season afterall it was him who started the Stark demise.

I was being really politically correct earlier about Littlefinger. Disappointing is the understatement of the thread so far I'd say regarding this..

His character was absolutely fucked over in the finale. It showed him looking desperate more than manipulative, the Littlefinger we know so much more cunning and silver-tongued... The Littlefinger of old would have had Sansa leaving his presence on at least neutral terms, not a complete fucking blowout.

How do you make Littlefinger look stupid, stumbling and bumbling and completely fucking ineffective at the specialty of his character? Which is manipulation.

Sansa is a fullblown Mary Sue now I guess. Littlefinger will no longer be allowed to be himself! How exciting for next season.

Disgusted with it, however its my only complaint with the finale.

[gummab]

Sansa started the demise before littlefinger... arya to take out her sister

Sansa only started that in Kings Landing,Littlefinger was well on the way by then.Sansa has to be the one,she's the one who he manipulated for so long.
Arya is going to kill the people on her list which does not include Littlefinger(with a little help from Sandor on one name.)

[Drayc]

Jonsnow is the product of when Rhaegar kidnaps Ned Stark's sister, Lyanna, and rapes her.

But he didn't kidnap her or rape her. ;)

[Trajor]

Last night I went to youtube to watch compilations of hints (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xaspBsfgRg) throughout the GoT seasons that suggest Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon.

More info about Rhaegar:
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Rhaegar_Targaryen

[Spyder73]

I have been on vacation for the last 10 days so I just caught up last night on the last 2 episodes. Bastard Bowl might be my favorite episode of any show ever. Like #1 on the list of best piece of TV I have ever seen. Battle of Winterfell was epic, Danny wrecking faces was epic, the entire thing was f#cking amazing and exactly what I was hoping I would see.

Targaryans apparently give all their children Dragon eggs when they are born, and the dragon and child bond while in the crib with one another. So the theory goes that Ned Stark hid Jons dragon egg in the crypts of Winterfell so that when an appropriate time came, he could tell Jon his true heritage… Now that Jon is confirmed Targaryan – I leave you with this bit from the books.

"Sometimes I dream about it," he said. "I'm walking down this long empty hall. My voice echoes all around, but no one answers, so I walk faster, opening doors, shouting names. I don't even know who I'm looking for. Most nights it's my father, but sometimes it's Robb instead, or my little sister Arya, or my uncle." The thought of Benjen Stark saddened him; his uncle was still missing.
[...]
"Do you ever find anyone in your dream?" Sam asked.
Jon shook his head. "No one. The castle is always empty." He had never told anyone of the dream, and he did not understand why he was telling Sam now, yet somehow it felt good to talk of it. "Even the ravens are gone from the rookery, and the stables are full of bones. That always scares me. I start to run then, throwing open doors, climbing the tower three steps at a time, screaming for someone, for anyone. And then I find myself in front of the door to the crypts. It's black inside, and I can see the steps spiraling down. Somehow I know I have to go down there, but I don't want to. I'm afraid of what might be waiting for me. The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps, but it's not them I'm afraid of. I scream that I'm not a Stark, that this isn't my place, but it's no good, I have to go anyway, so I start down, feeling the walls as I descend, with no torch to light the way. It gets darker and darker, until I want to scream." He stopped, frowning, embarassed. "That's when I always wake," (AGOT, 258-9).

TLDR – INCOMING LADY VOX

[Sage Truthbearer]

But he didn't kidnap her or rape her. ;)

"While in the Riverlands, Lyanna was kidnapped by Rhaegar with the help of half a dozen companions, including Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent. Rhaegar carried her off to Dorne and raped her. "

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Abduction_of_Lyanna_Stark

[Drayc]

"While in the Riverlands, Lyanna was kidnapped by Rhaegar with the help of half a dozen companions, including Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent. Rhaegar carried her off to Dorne and raped her. "

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Abduction_of_Lyanna_Stark

She ran off with him because they loved each other. Rhaegar was loved by the people because he was actually a good guy, there are many instances in the books and the show where people talk about Rhaegar and how people loved him because he was a good person. History is written by the winners, its not always truth just like Ned being Jon's father.

[xKoopa]

The KING IN THE NORTH

[Redi]

Daenerys is actually Jon's aunt.

The history to everything is never clearly explained in the show, but TLDR version is there used to be a mad king named Aerys Targaryen who was Rhaegar, Dany, and Viserys' dad.

Jonsnow is the product of when Rhaegar kidnaps Ned Stark's sister, Lyanna, and rapes her.

How do we know this from the show though? It wasn't clear. Who did Young Ned fight outside of his sisters tower? Was that Rhaegar? Rhaegar's kings guard?

[Drayc]

How do we know this from the show though? It wasn't clear. Who did Young Ned fight outside of his sisters tower? Was that Rhaegar? Rhaegar's kings guard?

Rhaegar was killed at the trident by Robert Baratheon. Ned fought Arthur Dayne and some of the other kings guard.

It was as clear as they are going to make it. Rhaegar and Lyanna loved each other and that is what a lot of this is about. They Lyanna got pregnant and Rhaegar went off to what he thought was win the war, he left his most trusted kingsguard behind to protect Lyanna and his unborn child. He knew that if Robert had gotten to the tower he would have killed everyone involved including the child.

It has been the dark secret that Ned has kept.

So yes Jon being Rhaegars child would make Daenerys Jons aunt

[Redi]

crazy

[Neno]

not sure if teleports, or different parts of story aren't necessarily taking place concurrently

Surely the amount of time to get together all dany's army and ready ships would have been many weeks. Then again, the time it would have taken to get all those lords together at Winterfell would have been weeks as well.

Come to think of it, all parts of the story were taking jumps in time from one scene to the next.

The parts don't take place concurrently. It is about 600 miles from Winterfell to Castle Black. So a few episodes back when Jon & Co. were riding around the north they would have spent weeks, if not months, traveling around to the various houses. There is no real indicator how much time passes between the various scenes. The events that happened in King's Landing at the beginning of this episode could have happened even before the Battle of the Bastards.

In this episode we get a shot of Varys in Dorne and by the end of it he is on Daenerys' ship. If you look at the various ships in the last few minutes there is at least one Dornish ship with the fleet. So enough time passed from Varys being in Dorne for him to sail back and hook back up with Daenerys. But again because we don't know the exact time line Varys could have left Meereen weeks before the slavers attacked and the events at King's Landing could have happened that same night giving him plenty of time to make his way to Dorne to set up a meeting between Ellaria and Olenna. The whole reason Varys left Meereen could have even been because of what happened in King's Landing and he saw an opportunity to gather more allies for Daenerys.

You could spend days speculating about what happens when and arrive at a lot of seemingly correct conclusions.

[holahouze]

The parts don't take place concurrently. It is about 600 miles from Winterfell to Castle Black. So a few episodes back when Jon & Co. were riding around the north they would have spent weeks, if not months, traveling around to the various houses. There is no real indicator how much time passes between the various scenes. The events that happened in King's Landing at the beginning of this episode could have happened even before the Battle of the Bastards.

In this episode we get a shot of Varys in Dorne and by the end of it he is on Daenerys' ship. If you look at the various ships in the last few minutes there is at least one Dornish ship with the fleet. So enough time passed from Varys being in Dorne for him to sail back and hook back up with Daenerys. But again because we don't know the exact time line Varys could have left Meereen weeks before the slavers attacked and the events at King's Landing could have happened that same night giving him plenty of time to make his way to Dorne to set up a meeting between Ellaria and Olenna. The whole reason Varys left Meereen could have even been because of what happened in King's Landing and he saw an opportunity to gather more allies for Daenerys.

You could spend days speculating about what happens when and arrive at a lot of seemingly correct conclusions.

If nothing else, at least Varys could have changed his clothes.

[AzzarTheGod]

Rhaegar was killed at the trident by Robert Baratheon. Ned fought Arthur Dayne and some of the other kings guard.

It was as clear as they are going to make it. Rhaegar and Lyanna loved each other and that is what a lot of this is about. They Lyanna got pregnant and Rhaegar went off to what he thought was win the war, he left his most trusted kingsguard behind to protect Lyanna and his unborn child. He knew that if Robert had gotten to the tower he would have killed everyone involved including the child.

It has been the dark secret that Ned has kept.

So yes Jon being Rhaegars child would make Daenerys Jons aunt

Wish we could get some of these earlier storylines on screen in a spinoff. I'd settle for Dunknegg I guess.

They are working on some ideas GRRM confirmed.

[Grubbz]

There's still the theory of jon and danny hooking up so i guess what starts with incest ends with incest eh?

[Lojik]

All's fair incest and war

[Pokesan]

will house tarly replace the tyrells at highgarden and is the tarly boy looking for a bride?

[Bisonzabi]

Definition of an asshole:

[Sun Jun 26 22:54:33 2016] Shun says out of character, 'I can't believe Cersei killed EVERYONE!'
[Sun Jun 26 22:55:02 2016] [60 Phantasmist] Shun (Dark Elf) <Aftermath> ZONE: sebilis

occured on est time. in sebilis

I'll be honest, now that the show is no longer based off of GRRM, it's become so god damn predictable. I mean, anyone with half a brain would know that Cersei was going to kill everyone. That or SOMEBODY. D&D are hack writers and it goes to show when they have to write a script based off 100% their ideas instead of the foundation of GRRM's work. Obviously they're trying to pull off the next biggest 'shocker' with more deaths then the Red Wedding as their last big seasonal hurrah. In fact, every single death by them feels so forced and not impacting. The death of Ned, Robb, Tywin ect all had impact. D&D are just trying to tie up loose ends in such a sloppy rushed way.

These are really good reviews, a must watch tbh.

https://youtu.be/mnyseAZ4xU8?t=170

[pathius41]

I'll be honest, now that the show is no longer based off of GRRM, it's become so god damn predictable. I mean, anyone with half a brain would know that Cersei was going to kill everyone. That or SOMEBODY. D&D are hack writers and it goes to show when they have to write a script based off 100% their ideas instead of the foundation of GRRM's work. Obviously they're trying to pull off the next biggest 'shocker' with more deaths then the Red Wedding as their last big seasonal hurrah. In fact, every single death by them feels so forced and not impacting. The death of Ned, Robb, Tywin ect all had impact. D&D are just trying to tie up loose ends in such a sloppy rushed way.

These are really good reviews, a must watch tbh.

https://youtu.be/mnyseAZ4xU8?t=170

I must agree here, Tommen's death shocked me, not in the fact it happened, or how it happened, but how freakin rushed it felt, like it was an after thought " oh hey shit we forgot to kill off the king, quick lets film this 15 second clip"

[AzzarTheGod]

In fact, every single death by them feels so forced and not impacting. The death of Ned, Robb, Tywin ect all had impact. D&D are just trying to tie up loose ends in such a sloppy rushed way.

https://youtu.be/mnyseAZ4xU8?t=170

Full agreement. It took some adjustment this season to get used to the "D&D standard" of story-telling and pacing without GRRM to guide them.

Thanks for the link.

[Bisonzabi]

There's still the theory of jon and danny hooking up so i guess what starts with incest ends with incest eh?

And the best type of incest, the one where you're having sex with your aunt.

[Rogean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD7SAFzXSSo

[Sidelle]

I must agree here, Tommen's death shocked me, not in the fact it happened, or how it happened, but how freakin rushed it felt, like it was an after thought " oh hey shit we forgot to kill off the king, quick lets film this 15 second clip"

http://www.project1999.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=218&pictureid=946

[Chaboo_Cleric]

Man. Just finished this episode. Big fuckin let down. Only cool thing was Arya killing the fray fuck, and Tyren getting hand. The substance that made these episodes great went down the pooper. Little finger is now a bitch. Tyren has no witty lines or come backs. John snow is confused throughout the entire season. Where the fuck was the hound to close the season off? Man they really fucked this season up bad. Should be sued

[toosweet]

Definition of an asshole:

[Sun Jun 26 22:54:33 2016] Shun says out of character, 'I can't believe Cersei killed EVERYONE!'
[Sun Jun 26 22:55:02 2016] [60 Phantasmist] Shun (Dark Elf) <Aftermath> ZONE: sebilis

occured on est time. in sebilis
Rustled

[pugnacious]

If Jon is a Targaryen how come Daenerys doesn't get burned by fire but he does? He got burned when he grabbed the lantern at the knights watch.

[Lojik]

If Jon is a Targaryen how come Daenerys doesn't get burned by fire but he does? He got burned when he grabbed the lantern at the knights watch.

Not all targaryens are immune, only special ones...viserys didn't have very good fr either

[pugnacious]

True. Forgot about that.

[Rogean]

Daenerys isn't suppose to be fire immune either. She isn't in the book. That's something the show added.

[derpcake]

Fire immunity results in boobs.

Afaik the books don't have pictures, so it wouldn't have much of a purpose there.

[Kender]

i thought tommen topping himself without fanfare was one of the highlights.

[AzzarTheGod]

Little finger is now a bitch.

Yeah highlights aside, it still bothers me days later.

Mary Sue characters (Sansa) are the worst possible direction and designed to cater to the lowest common denominator. They destroy plots and they destroy shows at the expense of a strong female character.

She isn't full Mary Sue yet so hopefully there's time to flip the script and get Littlefinger back in the game.

[Sirken]

Episode delivered in full GoT quality.
Disappointed with Littlefinger's show treatment right now though. Only serious complaint.
yea same. it was like watching a completely different character. #notmylittlefinger

Not sure what was the most epic scene of tonight's finale, but Arya pulling a full on Scott Tenorman on Walder Frey has to be up there.
the smile of satisfaction on Cersei's face. but for real, the entire opening sequence was amazing. reminded me of the end of the first Godfather

Meat pies happened.
not sure i'm thrilled with the logistics of the whole thing (whered she get the face? howd she kill the frey brothers? where/how did she chop them up? everyone was cool will her cooking this shit? etc). but yes they did.

How did Jamie get from riverrun and then to the twins for cocktails, and to kings landing in time to see the sept still on fire? Lots of timeline weirdness... But what a god damned amazing episode.
Jaime probably just used littlefingers secret underground westerosi transit system.

"While in the Riverlands, Lyanna was kidnapped by Rhaegar with the help of half a dozen companions, including Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent. Rhaegar carried her off to Dorne and raped her. "
and who do you think writes the histories? the winners (see: Robert Baratheon). Lyanna never loved Robert, she didn't like his drinking and womanizing. realistically do you have any idea how hard it would have been to kidnap Lyanna if she was not willing to go?

[Sage Truthbearer]

and who do you think writes the histories? the winners (see: Robert Baratheon). Lyanna never loved Robert, she didn't like his drinking and womanizing. realistically do you have any idea how hard it would have been to kidnap Lyanna if she was not willing to go?

We're all just speculating since accounts in the books differ on how consensual the relationship was. I'm not totally convinced it is the perfect Romeo & Juliet story that you are describing, but I'm sure we'll be in for a whopper of a tale will be when the details are finally revealed, if they ever are.

[Sirken]

We're all just speculating since accounts in the books differ on how consensual the relationship was. I'm not totally convinced it is the perfect Romeo & Juliet story that you are describing, but I'm sure we'll be in for a whopper of a tale will be when the details are finally revealed, if they ever are.

certain people are capable of kidnap and rape, and certain people are not. if you tell me that Gregor Clegane kidnapped and raped someone, id believe it in a heartbeart.

Rhaegar was a sad little emo boy, that only learned how to use a sword after he learned the prophecy of the prince that was promised and thought briefly it was him (before trying to fulfill the prophecy through his 3 children). he use to travel to the ruins of summerhall to sulk and think about how sad the tragedy was, while he strummed his harp and sang sad songs. every single thing we know about Rhaegar, every single account we've heard about Rhaegar (minus the accounts from Robert Baratheon), screams that Rhaegar was a kind, wise, sensitive man, whom was a bit on the emo side. and everybody thought he would have been the best King Westeros had since Aegon V. there is not a single shred of evidence that could point to this man being possible of kidnap and rape. and a ton of it that points to the contrary.

[R Flair]

or he just got wasted one night I decided he was gettin laid

[Sidelle]

Man. Just finished this episode. Big fuckin let down. Only cool thing was Arya killing the fray fuck, and Tyren getting hand. The substance that made these episodes great went down the pooper. Little finger is now a bitch. Tyren has no witty lines or come backs. John snow is confused throughout the entire season. Where the fuck was the hound to close the season off? Man they really fucked this season up bad. Should be sued
^^This... Shit Tyrion, get it together... :( Where's that hilarious and clever dwarf we used to know and love?
i thought tommen topping himself without fanfare was one of the highlights.
I gotta admit I wasn't expecting him to do that.

I'm happy to say Cersei didn't disappoint. I was surprised to discover that I was kinda rooting for her. "When you play the Game of Thrones you win or you die." ...Indeed... Now she's finally getting her shit together and has openly come out as the evil queen like in fairy tales. I'm loving her new look, too.

All of her children are dead and gone now and they were pretty much all she cared about. She has nothing left to lose and even has extra time on her hands to unleash hell on anyone who even looks at her the wrong way. CERSEI LETS IT GO (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfpNoHQY3F8)

A few random thoughts: I was hoping for more Sandor Clegane... Where the FUCK is Ghost??.. LOL Septa Unella gonna be walking funny for a while... Just WTF is Littlefinger thinking as he stares at Sansa from across the room? He seems a little irritated...

[Hoozi]

Was hoping we'd get to see Jamie kill Cersei - but next season I suppose. Im predicting he blames her for Tommens death, and kills her for it. She's gonna die, but how soon and by whom? My money is on Jamie. Though I would love for Arya to have the privilege.

[AzzarTheGod]

Was hoping we'd get to see Jamie kill Cersei - but next season I suppose. Im predicting he blames her for Tommens death, and kills her for it. She's gonna die, but how soon and by whom? My money is on Jamie. Though I would love for Arya to have the privilege.


I just don't see the Jaime thing personally. Its not believable enough, given that Tommen jumped himself off and made very unpopular decisions to align with the Sparrow. VERY unpopular decision with Jaime personally. Jaime hated the Sparrow and the church of the 7.

She also made sure to protect Tommen from going to the church.

She killed Tyrells and Sparrows. Jaime doesn't particularly care about those people. There is a Tyrell v Lannistar war coming, he will fight it.

At this point, without additional cause, Jaime can't kill Cercei. Hes nowhere near it. If he killed Cercei in that finale, it would have jumped the whole ocean nevermind the shark..

[Sidelle]

Was hoping we'd get to see Jamie kill Cersei - but next season I suppose. Im predicting he blames her for Tommens death, and kills her for it. She's gonna die, but how soon and by whom? My money is on Jamie. Though I would love for Arya to have the privilege.
I know the Valonqar ("little brother") prophesy has never been mentioned on the show, only the "your three kids are gonna die" part, but I still hope it's either Tyrion or Jaime, though I would settle for Arya or Sansa on HBO version.

[Shrubwise]

It's gonna be Jaime.

He is going to slay Cersei.

with dat dick

[Sirken]

It's gonna be Jaime.

He is going to slay Cersei.

with dat dick

before or after she destroys KL?

[Alarti0001]

before or after she destroys KL?

Cersei is kinda epicly stupid. Cool she has power now... but what allies does she have to keep her on the thrown? The north? The Vale? The Tyrells? Dorn? Riverlands? Baratheons?

She has like.... the freys. GG

[Ahldagor]

Jaime won't kill the mad queen like he did the king?

[Hoozi]

I know the Valonqar ("little brother") prophesy has never been mentioned on the show, only the "your three kids are gonna die" part, but I still hope it's either Tyrion or Jaime, though I would settle for Arya or Sansa on HBO version.

Right, Valonqar is why I bring it up. Jamie is the little brother (minutes younger, but still "little brother"), so its either him or Tyrion, but my money is on Jamie.... but again - would love to see her fall to Arya.

[AzzarTheGod]

It will probably be Jaime based on D&D's preference, but I can't say it makes sense on the show. She has no allies presently political, nor personal - outside of the maester.

Jaime should go down fighting for her. Albeit not happy about what she's done. They belong together, they fall together.

There's book foreshadowing saying as much. Even the show has stated this unwritten prophecy explicitly in Season 1. They have been partners their whole lives, even in crime.

It should be Tyrion.

[barrettdc1]

Rickons gonna come back as the leader of the white walker army and kill everyone.

[Sirken]

Cersei is kinda epicly stupid. Cool she has power now... but what allies does she have to keep her on the thrown? The north? The Vale? The Tyrells? Dorn? Riverlands? Baratheons? She has like.... the freys. GG
she has literally nothing. a crazy ex-maester, a zombie, and some wildfire. that said, i still think cersei will destroy KL

Right, Valonqar is why I bring it up. Jamie is the little brother (minutes younger, but still "little brother"), so its either him or Tyrion, but my money is on Jamie....
i think you're right. i see Jaime Lannister being in a familiar situation with having to save the city from a prower hungry crazy person. hell, maybe cersei is jaime's nissa nissa, and he'll save all the people from all the things. maybe he'll actually get the credit he deserves for it this time though.

Rickons gonna come back
too soon. besides, rickon was your typical shaggy dog story (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_dog_story)

[Alarti0001]

she has literally nothing. a crazy ex-maester, a zombie, and some wildfire. that said, i still think cersei will destroy KL


i think you're right. i see Jaime Lannister being in a familiar situation with having to save the city from a prower hungry crazy person. hell, maybe cersei is jaime's nissa nissa, and he'll save all the people from all the things. maybe he'll actually get the credit he deserves for it this time though.




That's what I'm seeing plus from the long story redemption story perspective its pretty glorious. Plus Brienne needs loving too.

[Crypodosktorr]

Brienne will end up with Jaimie, only to watch him die by Aryas hand.

[Fael]

Rhaegar was a sad little emo boy, that only learned how to use a sword after he learned the prophecy of the prince that was promised and thought briefly it was him (before trying to fulfill the prophecy through his 3 children). he use to travel to the ruins of summerhall to sulk and think about how sad the tragedy was, while he strummed his harp and sang sad songs. every single thing we know about Rhaegar, every single account we've heard about Rhaegar (minus the accounts from Robert Baratheon), screams that Rhaegar was a kind, wise, sensitive man, whom was a bit on the emo side.

I always warn girls: stay away from the nice guys.

-----

So with no legitimate heir to the Barratheon line at this point, who has rights to the throne (or Storm's End)? Is Cersie a legitimate option under Westerosi conventions? Renly and Stannis have no heirs. Mya Stone or Gendry?

[Shrubwise]

Where da hell Gendry been at?

[Sidelle]

Where da hell Gendry been at?
I really hope he's off learning how to work with Valyrian steel somewhere.

[Sirken]

I always warn girls: stay away from the nice guys.
-----
So with no legitimate heir to the Barratheon line at this point, who has rights to the throne (or Storm's End)? Is Cersie a legitimate option under Westerosi conventions? Renly and Stannis have no heirs. Mya Stone or Gendry?

there's a few different ways it could go. anyone with Targ blood could make a claim technically. and so while the male line of the targs and baratheons are gone, there are still descendants from the female sides. Cersei could actually make a claim as the last member of the royal family. but really, anyone with enough support can make a claim.

[Sirken]

also, Season 7 possibly delayed:

http://fortune.com/2016/07/07/game-of-thrones-season-7-delay/

[AzzarTheGod]

Prequel pls

[Fael]

there's a few different ways it could go. anyone with Targ blood could make a claim technically. and so while the male line of the targs and baratheons are gone, there are still descendants from the female sides. Cersei could actually make a claim as the last member of the royal family. but really, anyone with enough support can make a claim.

Targ line: Jon and Dany
Barratheon line: extinguished but for Mia and gendry.

What females are still left of either line?

[Ahldagor]

also, Season 7 possibly delayed:

http://fortune.com/2016/07/07/game-of-thrones-season-7-delay/

Let it snow.....

[AenorVZ]

Yeah D&D. You guys take a few weeks off and think about the shit show you just signed your name to. Take all the fucking time you need.

[holahouze]

Yeah D&D. You guys take a few weeks off and think about the shit show you just signed your name to. Take all the fucking time you need.

I had a lot of problems with the D&D storytelling, too.

So, I'm guessing Cersei will name/appoint Jamie to her Queensguard. What do you think?

[Hoozi]

I had a lot of problems with the D&D storytelling, too.

So, I'm guessing Cersei will name/appoint Jamie to her Queensguard. What do you think?

Hard for her to do that after he kills her.

[Sirken]

Prequel pls
if they do, it will be Dunk & Egg

[Sirken]

Targ line: Jon and Dany
Barratheon line: extinguished but for Mia and gendry.
What females are still left of either line?
Well, you can find Targ blood in the Arryns via the marriage of Daella Targaryen and the unnamed Lord Arryn to produce children. House Plumm & House Longwater also have Targaryen blood through Elaena Targaryen and her multiple husbands including Ossifer Plumm and Alyn Velaryon. Around 197 AC (~100 years before season1/book1) a different Daenerys Targaryen was wed to Maron Martell putting Targaryen blood within the Martell lines as well.

as for the Baratheons, their blood still exists in House Swann (Kelyce Baratheon & Allos Swann), House Brownhill (Cassandra Baratheon & Walter Brownhill), House Rowan (Floris Baratheon & Thaddeus Rowan), House Blackwood (Ellyn Baratheon & Benjicot Blackwood), House Lannister (Elyanna Baratheon & Mathin Lannister), and House Crakehall (Lyria Baratheon & Garen Crakehall).

so while the names might be dead and gone, the 'lines' most certainly are not extinguished.

[Sirken]

I had a lot of problems with the D&D storytelling, too.
So, I'm guessing Cersei will name/appoint Jamie to her Queensguard. What do you think?
D&D are simply not great story tellers when compared to GRRM. as for Jaime, i doubt it. Cersei would see her feelings for Jaime as a weakness at this point. While i believe Cersei thinks she stopped the Maggie the Frog prophecy by killing Margarey Tyrell, she is going full on Sith Lord, and won't let Jaime close to her. i think part of the reason she sent him away was because she knew that the wildfire was always an option, and she knows he'd be against that, or would try to stop her.

[Sage Truthbearer]

D&D are simply not great story tellers when compared to GRRM.

It seems silly to make apples to apples comparisons here. GRRM is writing a book series and D&D are making a television adaptation. Totally different storytelling platforms and what goes into making each one successful is widely different.

[Sirken]

It seems silly to make apples to apples comparisons here. GRRM is writing a book series and D&D are making a television adaptation. Totally different storytelling platforms and what goes into making each one successful is widely different.

the adaptation work is and always has been fine. my statement (and most of my complaints this season) is directed their original material, the 'non' adaptation work. they simply are not as good of storytellers as GRRM. most of the acting has been fine, but the actual weight of the dialog has been lacking in substance. characters do things that are completely out of character or make no actual sense for that person to be doing. there has been literally no background scheming or plotting by any of the characters. they have been holding our hands and everything has been exactly what it seems on the surface, and it's getting boring. i understood why nothing surprised me before, but seeing as how we are past the books now, there's no reason for me to see everything coming anymore, other than poor storytelling and/or story crafting.

[holahouze]

the adaptation work is and always has been fine. my statement (and most of my complaints this season) is directed their original material, the 'non' adaptation work. they simply are not as good of storytellers as GRRM. most of the acting has been fine, but the actual weight of the dialog has been lacking in substance. characters do things that are completely out of character or make no actual sense for that person to be doing. there has been literally no background scheming or plotting by any of the characters. they have been holding our hands and everything has been exactly what it seems on the surface, and it's getting boring. i understood why nothing surprised me before, but seeing as how we are past the books now, there's no reason for me to see everything coming anymore, other than poor storytelling and/or story crafting.

Excellent post!

[Sage Truthbearer]

the adaptation work is and always has been fine. my statement (and most of my complaints this season) is directed their original material, the 'non' adaptation work. they simply are not as good of storytellers as GRRM. most of the acting has been fine, but the actual weight of the dialog has been lacking in substance. characters do things that are completely out of character or make no actual sense for that person to be doing. there has been literally no background scheming or plotting by any of the characters. they have been holding our hands and everything has been exactly what it seems on the surface, and it's getting boring. i understood why nothing surprised me before, but seeing as how we are past the books now, there's no reason for me to see everything coming anymore, other than poor storytelling and/or story crafting.

The thing is, you're trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison of totally different platforms.

D&D have a finite amount of space to work with. They have roughly 9 hours to tell a story each season. That means if they want to add more depth to a character, they have to cut out other stuff. If GRRM wants to add more depth, he adds another page to the chapter he's writing.

D&D's decisions may be predictable to you as a book reader who spends time posting on a forum analyzing the show, but D&D are trying to appeal to a wider audience of casual viewers that have not read the books and have significantly less context about Westeros than you do. They have a lot more to answer for.

Honestly, I think a lot of people are looking a gift horse in the mouth here. We got an 8-season, high budget, high fantasy cable series that is universally acclaimed and will actually finish with a proper ending. The fact that this happened at all is amazing.

[AenorVZ]

I had a lot of problems with the D&D storytelling, too.

So, I'm guessing Cersei will name/appoint Jamie to her Queensguard. What do you think?

Jaime gonna put her down like a rabid bitch.

The thing is, you're trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison of totally different platforms.

D&D have a finite amount of space to work with.

Then why do they keep shitting it up with bad storytelling? Preston's full season review leaves out any book comparison and judges the season purely on its own (lack of) storytelling consistency:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adDgvbyZwlY

Needless to say, even with book comparison removed, D&D are shit storytellers. Get back at us when you've watched that and then tell us what a great job they're doing.

[AzzarTheGod]

Jaime gonna put her down like a rabid bitch.



Then why do they keep shitting it up with bad storytelling? Preston's full season review leaves out any book comparison and judges the season purely on its own (lack of) storytelling consistency:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adDgvbyZwlY

Needless to say, even with book comparison removed, D&D are shit storytellers. Get back at us when you've watched that and then tell us what a great job they're doing.

This. Not sure how anyone hasn't seen it by now. You don't need Preston to hold your hand to realize D&D are complete hacks (seriously, its bad)

True Detective Season 2 looks like a fucking masterpiece comparatively, story wise. I never thought another marquee series would come along that would tank even worse and bump the stock up of another HBO story-telling shitshow.

HBO needs to exercise more authority on these series is all I gathered from trainwreck after trainwreck the past several years across 4-5 different HBO marquee premium flagship series have all shit the bed due to show-runners and creative not being checked by HBO producers.

Showtime is much better about working directly with the creators of their series. The fucking CEO of Showtime even gets involved in the writing process on occasion when its obviously needed and it works out for the better every time.

Stop letting these guys operate with autonomy just because they had a few hits using someone elses storyboard. This is like Brad McQuaid telling Microsoft "We made EQ1" when asked where the fucking quality was after 30 million was spent..

Down with D&D.

[AenorVZ]

True Detective Season 2 looks like a fucking masterpiece comparatively, story wise.

I liked Season 2 =)

Tits, dragons and enough of the original story made GoT the biggest series in television history. Fortunately for HBO, us butthurt book fans make up only a small percentage of the audience. It's pretty obvious that most people who think the show does a good job of storytelling don't read much.

Bonus points for working McQuaid in!

[Sirken]

The thing is, you're trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison of totally different platforms.
It's pretty obvious that most people who think the show does a good job of storytelling don't read much.

my biggest complaint is the Dorne story. it's quite possibly the worst thing that the show has done by a long shot, and we don't even have to compare it to the books for that to be true (but yes for the record, they massacred the Dornish story if you do wanna compare it to the book). they cast a great actor to play Doran Martell (so you know they had a plan at some point, but then they went and fucked it all up). but we can gloss over wasting talent. the show storyline was not well thought out, and it was horribly written. they introduced a character that's important, he does literally nothing of value or importance at any time, is a complete waste of everyone's time, and then he and his family line is killed off by Oberyn's whore to avenge Oberyn (whom was killed in a legal trial by combat), after the Martells have been around for literally a thousand years, because logic. the sandsnakes were written comically bad, like bad supervillan bad. one of them was a god damn award winning actress, and even she couldn't overcome the horrible dialog written for them. Hell, i could write better one liners if that's all we're going to be doing with them.

none of these things have to do with book to screen adaptation. these are just things that were poorly executed by the show. and don't even get me started on the Arya stuffs.

[Sage Truthbearer]

It's pretty obvious that most people who think the show does a good job of storytelling don't read much.

Nah, there are plenty of people who read all the books (including myself) who still enjoy the television series and are okay with most of the decisions D&D have made, with few exceptions.

my biggest complaint is the Dorne story. it's quite possibly the worst thing that the show has done by a long shot

I think everyone agrees that the Dorne story was cringeworthy.

There were also plenty of things D&D did that I was impressed with how well they adapted (like the Red Wedding, Shame) and things they changed that actually improved the story (like Hardhome, taking out Aegon).

I think D&D are in a difficult position, because they are forced to appeal to the casual viewer and adapt the books to be effective in a dramatic format. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I like to cut them some slack.

[Sirken]

Nah, there are plenty of people who read all the books (including myself) who still enjoy the television series and are okay with most of the decisions D&D have made, with few exceptions.



I think everyone agrees that the Dorne story was cringeworthy.

There were also plenty of things D&D did that I was impressed with how well they adapted (like the Red Wedding, Shame) and things they changed that actually improved the story (like Hardhome, taking out Aegon).

I think D&D are in a difficult position, because they are forced to appeal to the casual viewer and adapt the books to be effective in a dramatic format. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I like to cut them some slack.

i think youre missing the main point of my posts, and i'm not gonna waste my time repeating myself. all of the adaption work has been great. when they take the existing story and adapt it to screen, they do a great job. however, when they do not have the book to use as source material the quality drops dramatically. and before you call me a book purist, go back and read my last two posts, as they describe the problems pretty perfectly and do not use the books or material from the books or comparisons to the books, to explain why it is just plain bad.

[AzzarTheGod]

I liked Season 2 =)

Tits, dragons and enough of the original story made GoT the biggest series in television history. Fortunately for HBO, us butthurt book fans make up only a small percentage of the audience. It's pretty obvious that most people who think the show does a good job of storytelling don't read much.

Bonus points for working McQuaid in!

I enjoyed it as well, but story-telling wise it was somewhere between abstract and clunky with weak plot development, as well as very steroided out at times (same as GoT Season 6 with the steroids) which is why I made the comparison. As GoT has a lot of dead air, and at least 3 episodes packed with time wasting.

I'd take a couple more seasons of True Detective with Season 2 quality, but it doesn't change the fact it needed help. D&D being given autonomy over the show beyond the books hasn't panned out very well. I.E. wasting 3 episodes of Season 6 on steaming shit and filler.

If they weren't burning dead air and screen time constantly then I'd "give them some slack". They don't deserve any slack. This is a AAA production and execs should have moved in on it, period.

"We did EQ1" is a euphemism for arrogance and I think D&D possess a lot of that based on the success they have seen with someone else's storyboard. They are overdue for a gut check that they are not getting, per HBO's M.O. which is to praise early work and give passes out based on who the show-runner is. Same with Boardwalk's final season with Terrance Winter.

[Sirken]

I enjoyed it as well, but story-telling wise it was somewhere between abstract and clunky with weak plot development, as well as very steroided out at times (same as GoT Season 6 with the steroids) which is why I made the comparison. As GoT has a lot of dead air, and at least 3 episodes packed with time wasting.

I'd take a couple more seasons of True Detective with Season 2 quality, but it doesn't change the fact it needed help. D&D being given autonomy over the show beyond the books hasn't panned out very well. I.E. wasting 3 episodes of Season 6 on steaming shit and filler.

If they weren't burning dead air and screen time constantly then I'd "give them some slack". They don't deserve any slack. This is a AAA production and execs should have moved in on it, period.

"We did EQ1" is a euphemism for arrogance and I think D&D possess a lot of that based on the success they have seen with someone else's storyboard. They are overdue for a gut check that they are not getting, per HBO's M.O. which is to praise early work and give passes out based on who the show-runner is. Same with Boardwalk's final season with Terrance Winter.

100% agreed.

sooo, being that D&D know the end and are clearly fast tracking to that point.. do we think that Arianne Martell will end up killing her father (Doran) at some point (since they tried to merge some of Arianne Martell into Ellaria Sand)? or do you guys think thats just pure show garbage?

[AenorVZ]

100% agreed.

[holahouze]

sooo, being that D&D know the end and are clearly fast tracking to that point.. do we think that Arianne Martell will end up killing her father (Doran) at some point (since they tried to merge some of Arianne Martell into Ellaria Sand)? or do you guys think thats just pure show garbage?

Pure show garbage.

Arianne will be off to court Aegon and break his cherry.

[AzzarTheGod]

HBO today confirmed rumors that the final two seasons of Game of Thrones will be shortened from the usual 10 episodes.

Executive Producers David Benioff and D.B. Weiss tell season seven will be reduced to seven episodes and season eight, expected to be the last, will only have six chapters.

12 Episodes left in the entire series pals, confirmed officially by HBO.


Stern cringe @ HBO PR use of wording "chapters" at the end there.

Six chapters oh I see! we're so silly....each episode is a chapter not an episode. We should be very grateful to enjoy these "chapters" D&D are giving us.

[Sirken]

13* Episodes left in the entire series pals, confirmed officially by HBO.

FTFY. dont toy with my emotions like that please :p

[beyondinfin]

12 Episodes left in the entire series pals, confirmed officially by HBO.


Stern cringe @ HBO PR use of wording "chapters" at the end there.

Six chapters oh I see! we're so silly....each episode is a chapter not an episode. We should be very grateful to enjoy these "chapters" D&D are giving us.

Incoming Boardwalk Empire season 5 clone!

[AzzarTheGod]

FTFY. dont toy with my emotions like that please :p

Lol you caught that huh... guilty.

Bad luck is my excuse, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't trying to make the news as bad as the loose facts would allow.

[gummab]

I can see the last season being even worse than Fringe season 5,Lost season 4-6,or Heroes season 4.
Bad thing is I have to watch it,just to see the lame ending thats going to happen :mad:

[Sirken]

I can see the last season being even worse than Fringe season 5,Lost season 4-6,or Heroes season 4.
Bad thing is I have to watch it,just to see the lame ending thats going to happen :mad:

my hope is that they are fast forwarding through the story to get to an epic ending. the ending should be painted out pretty clearly to them by GRRM, and as such would not depend on original material. whereas GRRM has said that while he knows the main stops along the way to the end, he hasn't filled in all the fluff to get there. i think D&D are just skipping over the parts GRRM hasnt figured out yet.

but moreover, i dont think D&D care anymore, or that their hearts arent in it anymore. they always said that if they could get to the red wedding and pull it off they would be happy. i think the first 4 seasons were amazing, and it starts to get painful during season 5 and throughout most of season 6.

[Phenyo]

but moreover, i dont think D&D care anymore, or that their hearts arent in it anymore. they always said that if they could get to the red wedding and pull it off they would be happy. i think the first 4 seasons were amazing, and it starts to get painful during season 5 and throughout most of season 6.

Agreed, the show has really declined over the last couple of seasons and the shoehorned agendas are starting to become more prevalent

[Sage Truthbearer]

You can't blame D&D for going ahead of the books.. That's all on GRRM.

[Spyder73]

I feel like the show has gotten stronger every season...this season was my favorite, but thats probably just because it was new and i was itching for GoT in a bad way.

Maybe I am just too big of a fan, but I don't see a way they can f#ck it up at this point, it's a point where all the cards have been dealt and there isn't much beyond nature plot progression and some bad a$$ battles to come. Any direction they take it ends with Danny attacking King's Landing and Jon battling White Walkers in the North - both of which I am super excited to see.

I feel like Bran crossing the Wall is going to be a tipping point. Soon as he crosses it the Nights King will be able too because of touching him in the worg/dream world and maybe thats what gets the rest of the world to unite (Under Danny/Dragons of course) when the wall comes crashing down in epic fashion.

I guess I am just not worried about the show going forward because almost any direction they take it is an auto-win. Barring some sort of complete mental breakdown from show owners this final season will be full throttle the entire time once the snowball starts rolling down the hill.

[Thulack]

Nice thing about not watching this show is i dont have to wait a year for the next season lol.

[AenorVZ]

Incoming Boardwalk Empire season 5 clone!

But instead of putting the series down like a rabid dog could we substitute the showrunners?

[gummab]

i dont think D&D care anymore, or that their hearts arent in it anymore. they always said that if they could get to the red wedding and pull it off they would be happy. i think the first 4 seasons were amazing, and it starts to get painful during season 5 and throughout most of season 6.

I think you are right they don't care,they can still pull in the ratings no matter what garbage they write now,also pretty much the same I loved seasons 1-4, 5 went meh but still had some good plotlines going on and 6 was a rush job(thats me being kind btw.)

I was very sceptical about the GoT series before I started watching it as I did not think they could pull it off but they did.Now though for me they have ruined it,next season is going to be plotless,they could have atleast kept Marg and HS in for this season to add some extra oh shit moments via some devious plot,i guess this all falls on the now clueless Littlefinger :eek:

I'm really hoping this opens the gate for a Wit'ch war series from James Clemens,but I think that might just be a pipe dream as the Wit'ch seires is far too brutal for mainstream TV.

[AzzarTheGod]

I was very sceptical about the GoT series before I started watching it as I did not think they could pull it off but they did.Now though for me they have ruined it,next season is going to be plotless,they could have atleast kept Marg and HS in for this season to add some extra oh shit moments via some devious plot,i guess this all falls on the now clueless Littlefinger :eek:

I regretted watching Season 5 of Boardwalk Empire after the fact.

Its going to take some self-reflection for me to determine whether the remaining plot devices are enough to justify the risk, instead of putting it off and staying it in favor of the books.

I think that's where the educated armchair critics of premium cable TV series are at right now-- deciding whether the next 13 episodes will take away from the GoT experience.

The good news is that there is plenty of time to make that decision?

[Sirken]

The good news is that there is plenty of time to make that decision?

yes, luckily season 7 will be delayed due to weather related issues

[Alarti0001]

yes, luckily season 7 will be delayed due to weather related issues

Heard is back on track for 2017

[Sirken]

Heard is back on track for 2017

was always 2017, just got pushed from April 2017 to "Summer" of 2017 :(

[Sirken]

Preston - still doing god's work - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qz1H3EQAcU

also, check out The Last Harpy on Youtube, making daily videos over there

[Sirken]

apparently not everyone is waiting for winter. Jorah spotted filming - https://youtu.be/KxKgAPlRI-o

[AenorVZ]

He seemed like he needed a break but he keeps plugging away.

[AenorVZ]

All the ladies will appreciate Fact #30:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFdquXir9FY

[Sirken]

All the ladies will appreciate Fact #30:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFdquXir9FY

29 was good. Viserys was Charles Dicken's great great grandson

[AenorVZ]

Off topic but Stranger Things on Netflix is some of the best television I've ever watched.

[gummab]

Off topic but Stranger Things on Netflix is some of the best television I've ever watched.

I'm mixed on this series,I like it though it does start off really slow.Not watched last episode yet might sink my teeth in later.
You might want to try American Horror Story(season 2.)Now that is true TV gold.

[AenorVZ]

"This is like going to Saudi Arabia and cooking up a BLT."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qz1H3EQAcU

[Grimjaw]

they been playing game of thrones s1 this week every night on basic cable right before my nightly news. only saw a few scenes of it so far but most of them had some type of full nude girl on girl action. quite the interesting show. now I see why its so popular. has that topic been discussed already in this 300+ page thread?

[Sirken]

they been playing game of thrones s1 this week every night on basic cable right before my nightly news. only saw a few scenes of it so far but most of them had some type of full nude girl on girl action. quite the interesting show. now I see why its so popular. has that topic been discussed already in this 300+ page thread?

not really, but i'd guess the reason for that is the basic cable version is the HBO version but with things cut or changed (similar to how Dexter was on CBS during the writers' strike)

I mean hell.. the very first episode includes a beheading, a dude bending his sister over and taking her from behind, and a 10 year old being pushed out a tower window and crippled. then just sprinkle curse words and tits everywhere, and you're done :p

[Sirken]

season 7 casting call - https://youtu.be/_zxJ_fjCVkE


so now I have to start guessing wtf they are going to do

[Uuruk]

Keep me posted

[AenorVZ]

Sounds like Brandon Stark, Ashara Dayne and Rhaegar. Is the door still open for the show to do R+L=D, B+A=J?

[AenorVZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcU9aN5cu2w

Charlie breaking down season 7 plotlines.

[Sirken]

Is the door still open for the show to do R+L=D, B+A=J?

heh no, the show has 100% closed the door on R+L=J, and since that was the question that GRRM asked D&D before he agreed to let them do the show, i have a hard time accepting it will be different in the books.

as for A+B=anything, when exactly would this have happened? Lyanna is "abducted" in or near 282AC and so Brandon (with his squire and a few other nerds) goes to King's Landing demanding that Rhaegar come out to die, but instead is arrested. Aerys summons the fathers of these men to Kings Landing to answer for their son's "crimes". Rickard (Brandon's father) goes to KL to get his son and is also arrested. Shortly after that, both men are killed by Aerys (with the help of fire and a choking device).

All we actually know for sure is that Ashara was in Harrenhal in 281AC and back in Starfall by the end of Robert's Rebellion in 283AC, where she "killed herself" after Eddard arrives with Dawn and news of Ser Arthur Dayne. And we are pretty sure that Ashara was Pregnant and either had the baby, or lost the baby near around the same time that Ned did this.

we also know that the taking of Gulltown was at or near the end of 282AC, and that the rebellion lasted about a year. Literally the only chance Ashara and Brandon had of hooking up within a time period to produce Jon or Dany would be for the few days that Brandon is in the black cells.

its actually much more likely that FAegon is Ashara's son than anything else. Dany was born on Dragonstone near the end of the war, Aerys' wife (Queen Rhaella) died giving birth to Dany, and shortly after a family friend helped them across the narrow sea to Essos. furthermore, I strongly believe that Septa Lemore could actually be Ashara Dayne, which would farther explain why shes in the Aegon camp should that be her son.

A+B could not have realistically happened in 282AC. and in my opinion R+L can only = J at this point.

[AenorVZ]

Awe come on you linked us the vids. Preston said that Brandon banging Ashara in a dungeon would be fitting since it echoes the Bael the Bard story. Ashara was handmaiden to the queen. Kings Landing was her place and her brother is Kingsguard and best friend to the prince. Can there be any doubt that she was influential enough to arrange a conjugal visit?

[Sirken]

Awe come on you linked us the vids. Preston said that Brandon banging Ashara in a dungeon would be fitting since it echoes the Bael the Bard story. Ashara was handmaiden to the queen. Kings Landing was her place and her brother is Kingsguard and best friend to the prince. Can there be any doubt that she was influential enough to arrange a conjugal visit?

Preston is also strangely obsessed with the lemon tree outside the house with the red door, when GRRM has already said years ago that the plans for dany's backstory changed a bit between the first and second book.

some of his shit is just crazy tinfoil. but at least its fresh new exciting tinfoil ;)



edit - also found a pretty good video on the hooded man of Winterfell - https://youtu.be/HwFNq7_8lWM

[AenorVZ]

Dude, Bravos is parallel to Castle Black. There are no lemon trees there. Sounds to me like GRRM was using misdirection ;)

[Sirken]

Dude, Bravos is parallel to Castle Black. There are no lemon trees there. Sounds to me like GRRM was using misdirection ;)

yes, I understand very well what Bravos and Pentos are both like. what I'm telling you is that GRRM has admitted that his plans for her changed after the first book and while he was writing the second book. The entire reason he points out actual mistakes (and he has said this as well) is because as you mentioned, sometimes he does try to misdirect and play games with his readers. but certain things are just errors or changes, like Sandor's horse change sexes, or Sansa's eyes changing color, etc. Some stuff is just an error, and when that happens he corrects it purposely as to not take away from the mysteries that actually do exist in the world of ice and fire.

[Sirken]

also, you all need to watch this video from 6:38 - 11:27 (https://youtu.be/-hh-52ptifI?t=6m38s)

[AenorVZ]

WELL THATS NO FUN.

[Sirken]

WELL THATS NO FUN.

lol! aw, i'm sorry :P

but for real though, I'd be shocked if the lemon tree or the house with the red door played any role in our book story.

one thing i'm curious about is will we see the Jaqan h'gar at the citadel? they made it clear the man Arya was with was only wearing Jaqan's face, and that it wasnt the same actual human being she met in the riverlands. I also wonder if the show will introduce the two horns, but i'm starting to think not so much.

also, calling it now, next season Cersei will die and the wall will come down

[AenorVZ]

So I have a theory, which is basically that the show has ruined GRRM. He's a bit of a perfectionist, like. And he's said he likes to write in a way which rewards repeated readings, which I think he's been fabulously successful at.

But what the show has done is bring so much hyper-focused attention to the book series. Preston obviously isn't the only youtuber micro-analyzing every word GRRM has ever written. I just think the pressure and weight of expectations is impacting his ability to finish the series. If this had remained a bestselling -- but otherwise obscure among non-fantasy book fans -- series and not become the biggest series in television history, then he could more easily get away with taking seven years to write a book.

I have of course run into the ground on these pages my disdain for D&D for doing the exact same thing the writers for the LotR movies did -- presuming to rewrite one of the greatest writers in the history of the English language. Unfortunately the success of the show reinforces to everyone involved with it that they're doing the right thing despite how obviously bad at storytelling they are, as Preston broke down with painstaking details in the season six wrap.

So I guess what I'm saying is that, if you're right and lemon trees in Bravos are an error and not a fake out, that means that GRRM was misleading readers when he downplayed Jon's importance in Ned's internal dialogue. Why did he move heaven and earth and bring down his own house trying to help Danny, but only think of Jon when he thought of bastards? The B+A=J theory would have been the most subtle fake out I've ever read if that was how it played out. But if you're right, it probably means GRRM isn't as good as I thought he was.

PS on page 324 of this thread I'm prepared to admit that I care way too much :)

[Sirken]

you aren't wrong, but i think the reasons are a bit different. i think its just less fun to write now that he knows the ending. the adventure for him is over, hes just putting pen to page for the readers at this point

[AenorVZ]

True.

[Sirken]

omg omg omg

http://www.parentherald.com/articles/65048/20160903/the-winds-of-winter-release-date-news-update-george-rr-martin-says-back-work-twow-isbn-ready.htm

[gummab]

May mean.
Apparently.
Optimistic.
Asssumingly.

so really they know fuck all.

[Sirken]

May mean.
Apparently.
Optimistic.
Asssumingly.

so really they know fuck all.

thats literally the most positive book 6 related news ive heard in two years. keep your rain away from my parade :p

[TheDuck]

you really holding out hope for a decent book? between the pressure and everything not to mention he has money now, i dno. From what i have heard about martin is he is a passionate writer, but he doesn't care anymore. in his mind his idea has been sold.

you buy that book will probably be ghost written, with martin just filling in the details at best.

at worst it will be a very poorly written book that somehow ties in the show.
(makes way more money)

sirken ill let u guess which route they went with :)

[AenorVZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c1PML5kfbg

I understand low expectations as a defense mechanism (that's my trick with the series). However, my expectations for the book are high. The Dornish Master Plan has allowed me to love the last two books almost as much as the first three. If GRRM is being this fucking anal, the end product should be something you'll appreciate after a couple of readings.

[Sirken]

you really holding out hope for a decent book? between the pressure and everything not to mention he has money now, i dno. From what i have heard about martin is he is a passionate writer, but he doesn't care anymore. in his mind his idea has been sold.
you buy that book will probably be ghost written, with martin just filling in the details at best.
at worst it will be a very poorly written book that somehow ties in the show.
(makes way more money)
sirken ill let u guess which route they went with :)
I'd be more willing to bet that GRRM is just bored. he already knows the story, the only reason for him to put pen to paper at this point is for the readers. as you said, he doesn't need to do it for the money, and he doesn't need to do it for himself (he already knows the story). he will finish book 6. and Book 7, i dunno. I can see him doing another Dunk & Egg book as well as that Targaryen book he wants to pump out before we see book 7 (if we see book 7)

[Sirken]

Gendry spotted! https://youtu.be/4k_MNqCgMpE

[AenorVZ]

Still rowin lol

[Sirken]

Still rowin lol

i'd like to see Gendry back with the brotherhood. but at the rate the show is wrapping shit up, its hard to believe they'd bring people back. either way, i'm a fan of gendry, and house baratheon needs a lord. make it happen :D

[entruil]

.

[Sirken]

.

check out the first few episodes and decide for yourself. definitely dont read this thread if you are not caught up on the show ;)

[Sirken]

season 7 spoilers?

https://youtu.be/UeKC7xW38J8

[AenorVZ]

So aight, thoughts on the Deeper Dorne recent installments? He makes a pretty good case that Doran set up Qentyn to fail. I think I may have caught Preston in a reach. He complains that they didn't provide Quentyn ravens although he did provide them to Arianna. Is there any instance in the books of ravens that travel between Westeros and Essos?

So I can buy that Qeyntn's mission had to be so super secret so that Doran wouldn't want him interacting with Essos intel contacts that might potentially let something slip. And Preston's arguments that the Yronwoods are not strictly loyal to the Martells are pretty compelling. It's really suspicious that, if this absolutely had to be a small, self-contained and elite unit to accomplish this super secret objective, it should have been at least two groups of five with an advance group to screen for and sometimes shadow Quentyn's group. With no help in Essos, Doran is 100% relying on too small a group of knights to pull off such a massive objective.

So it really does look like Doran sent his own son off to die or be enslaved or be imprisoned and tortured in Essos. And it also looks like, despite astronomical odds, Quentyn -- THE FUCKING BADDASS OF ASOIAF -- almost pulled that shit off. Because fuck you, Doran. Your boy put lash to fucking dragon. And fuck all you other Quentyn haters too. It took shiny brass balls to even walk into that cave.

[Sirken]

lol. Quentyn might also just be super dumb to walk up to the dragons as well. I assume that Varys uses ravens that fly from Westeros to Essos and from Essos to Westeros to order to communicate with contacts across the narrow sea. And also Euron gave ravens to Victarion that were to fly from Slaver's Bay back to the Iron Islands.

While I agree that Preston makes a lot of good points, Doran's Quentyn plan simply does not make sense to me. Unless you want Quentyn to die, why on earth would you send him on what seems like a possible suicide mission. It's possible that Doran doesn't know how big the dragons are at this point (news travels slowly, its possible they are still hearing tales of a Targaryen with 3 little dragons). I just don't know. There's a ton of things going on with in Dorne with Doran, but it just seems like Doran could have really improved Quentyn's odds of success with very little effort, and for whatever reason, he didn't do it.

[Chaboo_Cleric]

lol. Quentyn might also just be super dumb to walk up to the dragons as well. I assume that Varys uses ravens that fly from Westeros to Essos and from Essos to Westeros to order to communicate with contacts across the narrow sea. And also Euron gave ravens to Victarion that were to fly from Slaver's Bay back to the Iron Islands.

While I agree that Preston makes a lot of good points, Doran's Quentyn plan simply does not make sense to me. Unless you want Quentyn to die, why on earth would you send him on what seems like a possible suicide mission. It's possible that Doran doesn't know how big the dragons are at this point (news travels slowly, its possible they are still hearing tales of a Targaryen with 3 little dragons). I just don't know. There's a ton of things going on with in Dorne with Doran, but it just seems like Doran could have really improved Quentyn's odds of success with very little effort, and for whatever reason, he didn't do it.


What's your take on the hound? You think we still going to see a Clegan Bowel? I think Sandor has a major role to play, I hope him and Breann hook up personally.

[AenorVZ]

It just seems like Doran could have really improved Quentyn's odds of success with very little effort, and for whatever reason, he didn't do it.

Yep.

[Sirken]

interesting little video regarding The Curse of Robert Baratheon: https://youtu.be/HrMg_fTEmO8

[Sirken]

What's your take on the hound? You think we still going to see a Clegan Bowel? I think Sandor has a major role to play, I hope him and Breann hook up personally.

once upon a time i was 100% convinved we'd get Clegane Bowl, and that the Mountain and the Hound were put on this planet to eventually fight each other. But then Gregor is killed by Oberyn and "the hound" is put to rest by the elder brother on the quiet isle. now I understand that both of those men are still walking around, however their former characters are essentially already both dead.

Qyburn reanimated Ser Robert Strong, in the books it's very strongly hinted and implied that Robert Strong is Gregor's body mixed with parts from a few other bodies (ie: in the books we aren't even sure if he has a head, and there are theories that he actually has Robb Stark's head atop those giant shoulders). and on both books and show we can see that the personality of Gregor has completely changed. whatever is inside Robert Strong is not the same thing as whatever was in Gregor Clegane. Furthermore, i do not see Robert Strong leaving Cersei's side, and I can't see her leaving King's Landing.

As for Sandor Clegane, after he has his live saved by the Elder Brother, its made pretty clear that the entire persona of "The Hound" is dead and gone. Sandor is now on his redemption arc as a character, and I can no longer see him fighting for hatred or revenge, as it would be a complete 180 from the path he's cuurently on, and would render this part of Sander's story as a giant waste of time. I see him assisting the brothers of that isle, and possibly playing a role in the wars to come. But I do not see Sandor heading south to King's Landing.

If Brienne hooks up with anyone in the book, I'm really not sure whom it could be. she is much much uglier in the books than she is portrayed on the show. The only person that maybe would accept her is Jaime, but part of me thinks that Jaime and Cersei will die at roughly the same time, and Cersei's clock is ticking. on the show however, i could see them trying to pair Brienne and Tormund. (personally I'm more excited that GRRM confirmed Brienne was a descendant of Ser Duncan the Tall, and waiting to see exactly what that connection is).

[Sirken]

possible casting for Rhaegar Targaryen - https://youtu.be/U2vm2sbN4QQ

[aMindAmok]

all you need to know is that George RR Martin is an asshole.

Great synopsis of the series. 10/10 ;)

[Sirken]

It will surely be interesting how they portray Rhaegar. I personally want more information from the tragedy at Summerhall (where/when Rhaegar was born), but I think it much more likely that it will be the tourny at Harrenhal (I don't expect to see anymore ToJ scenes). BUT with that said, I think it's possible we just might see Ashara Dayne next season, and i'll tell you guys right now, if they do that it's going to get my nerd feelers all worked up ;)

[AenorVZ]

This is where D&D could totally 1000% redeem themselves for the shitshow that's been ongoing since what? Season 4? Instead of 20 minutes of screen time of Arya sweeping they could give us 20 minutes of exposition on the life of Rhaegar, about whom we learn so little from the books. This is your last chance D&D. Don't fuck this up.

[Sirken]

This is where D&D could totally 1000% redeem themselves for the shitshow that's been ongoing since what? Season 4? Instead of 20 minutes of screen time of Arya sweeping they could give us 20 minutes of exposition on the life of Rhaegar, about whom we learn so little from the books. This is your last chance D&D. Don't fuck this up.

D&D have done their best work when adapting book material to the screen. if they follow the book info for the tourny at Harrenhal (and other stories we hear of Rhaegar), it should be good. If they just create their own stories to show us Rhaegar i'm going to lose my mind.

[Sirken]

https://youtu.be/RjZiShq90NA

so these two new characters (1 seems to be the "10yr old boy", the other for the "16yr old girl" as called for on the season 7 casting call), does anyone have thoughts?

they seem to be of the north based on the group of actors seen filing and based on a photo with her and Kit Harrington.

what say you pals?

[AenorVZ]

I have no thoughts. Been wearing out Prepping for Winter tho.

[Sirken]

watchers on the wall have spotted Arya in an interesting costume ;)

[Patriam1066]

watchers on the wall have spotted Arya in an interesting costume ;)

Holy shit she's openly in the North? wtf...

I mean don't get me wrong I hope she's doing something important supporting the King of Kings Jon Targaryen but I didn't see that coming.

[AenorVZ]

Maisie's tweets were great: Shit gets real!

[Sirken]

possible season 7 spoiler regarding Jon Snow, Theon Greyjoy, and a couple others - http://en.yibada.com/articles/167429/20161015/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-daenerys-hbo.htm

[Sirken]

and new preston vid, more stuff on the dornish master plan

[Patriam1066]

and new preston vid, more stuff on the dornish master plan

Damnit wtb part 10

[Chaboo_Cleric]

Oh shit aryas wolf spotted

[AenorVZ]

Damnit wtb part 10

[Sirken]

Damnit wtb part 10
Damnit wtb part 10

do you guys also go back and start at part 1?

[AenorVZ]

Naw I jump all over.

[Sirken]

Naw I jump all over.

so.. you watch part 4, then part 7, then part 1, then part 3, etc?

[AenorVZ]

Naw I usually watch the one or two before the new vid. I can't wait that long to watch a new one. I've literally watched all of Preston's vids (except the show review ones) 20+ times each. Speaking of which, anybody feel like sharing your Youtube subscribe list? I could use some new channels. Mine is:

Preston
Mr. Moon
TheRunningManZ
Sirkenp99
level1undercon
Mrblack0ut
SmedyEverquest
DanielFromSL

[saujee]

I hope King Stannis is Not dead. I refuse to believe he died so easily after all he had done. D&D confirmed Stannis is dead. But so was Jon Snow.
However judging by Stephen Dillane's quote "The experience was very strange, it passed under my nose. For a role like it to me, I must get interested…which was not really the case. I was a bit overwhelmed". The reason why his death was so bad and easy was because he was not interested in the role.

[Sirken]

I hope King Stannis is Not dead. I refuse to believe he died so easily after all he had done. D&D confirmed Stannis is dead. But so was Jon Snow.
However judging by Stephen Dillane's quote "The experience was very strange, it passed under my nose. For a role like it to me, I must get interested…which was not really the case. I was a bit overwhelmed". The reason why his death was so bad and easy was because he was not interested in the role.

in the books I do not know what Stannis' fate will be. back in 2011 I expected that Stannis would end up as the 1000th commander of the Nights Watch after everything is said and done. in the show he is 100% dead as hell, and I believe this so firmly because of the quote you included. I remember reading that last year and just being like, "whelp, he's fucking dead". too bad really, i wouldn't have beers with Stannis, but I liked him despite that.

[Sirken]

Aenor, i'm only sharing my GoT subbed channels in this thread,

Here you go:
PrestonJacobs
AltShiftX
TheLastHarpy
SecretsOfTheCitadel
WatchersPod
GoTAcademy
MaesterAtale
NorthLander


and some channels i check often but dont sub to:
EmergencyAwesome
SmokeScreen
BecauseGeek
Rawrist
PetePeppers
KylesFookinChickens
SarahOfHouseDayne
VassalsOfKingsgrave

[big_ole_jpn]

Aenor, i'm only sharing my GoT subbed channels in this thread,

Here you go:
PrestonJacobs
AltShiftX
TheLastHarpy
SecretsOfTheCitadel
WatchersPod
GoTAcademy
MaesterAtale
NorthLander


and some channels i check often but dont sub to:
EmergencyAwesome
SmokeScreen
BecauseGeek
Rawrist
PetePeppers
KylesFookinChickens
SarahOfHouseDayne
VassalsOfKingsgrave

and there are people who think I'm a sick deviant based on my posts here

[Patriam1066]

do you guys also go back and start at part 1?

When he finishes a series or whatever I do. Not each time

I'll definitely watch the dornish one in full after he finishes it. I HOPE to God he's right about Dorne playing a role and GRRM isn't just making that storyline ancillary filler like in the show. Also, he better not just have Aegon get wrecked easily. I'm really hoping for chaos, a good story, and a bittersweet ending that doesn't see Jon or Dany on the throne

Oh yeah and before all of that I'm hoping we actually get a book 6 at some point...

[Patriam1066]

and there are people who think I'm a sick deviant based on my posts here

They're good books dumb dumb. If you'd read them and then said they sucked id so ok, who cares, but you're clearly a person who automatically dismisses anything popular

Big_J becoming a sourpuss since TRUMP tanked

[big_ole_jpn]

They're good books dumb dumb. If you'd read them and then said they sucked id so ok, who cares, but you're clearly a person who automatically dismisses anything popular

Big_J becoming a sourpuss since TRUMP tanked

just so we are clear, u are aware that was a list of youtube channels not a list of books right??

id make the same post about someone with 20 lord of the rings youtube subscriptions. sick shit