DPS

[ccs88]

Are plate wearers (excluding bards) intended for tanking only in raid/group situations?

I remember I had a warrior back in Kunark and tanking didn't even cross my mind... granted, I was 11 years old and didn't know anything.

Any thoughts appreciated.

[Ele]

The warrior/paladin/shadowknight's primary role is tanking; however, if your group happens to have a hybrid tank and a warrior or two warriors, the extra warrior can stay berserk and drop in a dps weapon rather than aggro weapons for some decent DPS.

[greatdane]

Paladins can put out vaguely decent healing while mana lasts, and shadowknights are pretty good pullers. Both classes can also kite stuff well due to fast, cheap aggro spells. Not that kiting is needed that much at this point in time, but it's an option. Hybrids make excellent off-tanks which becomes relevant in Velious.

[Ferok]

Hybrids make excellent off-tanks which becomes relevant in Luclin.

It needed fixing.

[greatdane]

Your face needs fixing!

[Vexxed]

a haste capped war dps is on par with monks. only beat by rogs.

Wars will sacrifice dps for proc'ing weapons until epic/vp than they get aggro procs with good ratios and produce great dps. often beating monks.

sks/pals never get there.

[Splorf22]

Well warriors aren't going to outdamage monks at 60. Monks get 16/22 Wu's fists, more attacks due to easier DA/DW checks, and their own superior damage table at 55.

A big part of the problem at 50 is that Monks get like +20 to offense and weapon skills relative to warriors, an advantage that slowly declines as both classes level to 60.

But yeah I agree with the general gist of your post if not all the details.

[Tecmos Deception]

Don't forget flying kick. It's no backstab, but it beats the hell out of regular kick.

[Vexxed]

Well warriors aren't going to outdamage monks at 60. Monks get 16/22 Wu's fists, more attacks due to easier DA/DW checks, and their own superior damage table at 55.

A big part of the problem at 50 is that Monks get like +20 to offense and weapon skills relative to warriors, an advantage that slowly declines as both classes level to 60.

But yeah I agree with the general gist of your post if not all the details.

Interesting facts you add.

My post was not speculation though. Its after many many damage parsers. In xp groups and raids.

Either tie with monks or a slightly ahead. Once again this only occurs if I'm at 100% haste. And yes this is at 60.

Monks get upgraded in Velious though and they pull a good deal ahead.

[Splorf22]

Would love to see some parses, at least when I was in VD I don't recall warriors topping the DPS charts much. Of course that was without VP weapons.

[Vexxed]

Would love to see some parses, at least when I was in VD I don't recall warriors topping the DPS charts much. Of course that was without VP weapons.

epic offhand adds pure 30 attack and epics alone are outstanding ratio at 14/24.

combine that with 100% haste, on par with monks.

pre epics and VP though yeah. a warrior only had blade of the black dragon eye with good ratio and hate proc. ringed mace comes close but still only 10/22.

Now a warrior that wouldn't want to get aggro (Such as 3rd or 4th war in a raid) has even more DPS options to be on par with monk while 100% haste capped

Any 2 weapons with outstanding ratios. Edge of the nightwalker/Sebcroaking dirk etc... as an example.

[SamwiseBanned]

epic offhand adds pure 30 attack and epics alone are outstanding ratio at 14/24.

combine that with 100% haste, on par with monks.

pre epics and VP though yeah. a warrior only had blade of the black dragon eye with good ratio and hate proc. ringed mace comes close but still only 10/22.

Now a warrior that wouldn't want to get aggro (Such as 3rd or 4th war in a raid) has even more DPS options to be on par with monk while 100% haste capped

Any 2 weapons with outstanding ratios. Edge of the nightwalker/Sebcroaking dirk etc... as an example.

no

[Splorf22]

epic offhand adds pure 30 attack and epics alone are outstanding ratio at 14/24.

combine that with 100% haste, on par with monks.

pre epics and VP though yeah. a warrior only had blade of the black dragon eye with good ratio and hate proc. ringed mace comes close but still only 10/22.

Now a warrior that wouldn't want to get aggro (Such as 3rd or 4th war in a raid) has even more DPS options to be on par with monk while 100% haste capped

Any 2 weapons with outstanding ratios. Edge of the nightwalker/Sebcroaking dirk etc... as an example.

would still love to see some parses

[mropey]

Warriors can do very good DPS. However, not more than a Monk... not right now with evenly geared characters. Monks destroy warriors in DPS. My main is a 60 warrior with basically every weapon/piece of gear you'd want in the game and out damaging a monk almost never done. We're talking Project 1999 though.

[Splorf22]

Well again I'd like to see some logs. It feels to me like dps is too spread out on this server (rogues and monks do too much more than warriors who do too much more than paladins/SKs). Anyway I checked my log, and here is one from the VP pickup raids:

Silverwing in 87s, 33k @378dps --- Adriana 8k @90dps (23.6%) --- Dravingar 7k @118dps (20.76%) --- Cecily 7k @83dps (20.55%) --- Tassive 2k @39dps (7.1%) --- Gobober 2k @44dps (6.1%) --- Destroyed 2k @28dps (5.42%) --- Xebeker 2k @35dps (5.31%) --- Xobeker 2k @41dps (4.64%) --- Jabeker 1k @32dps (2.9%) --- Jann 1k @22dps (1.8%) --- Vabarn 0k @35dps (1.47%) --- Xarartik 0k @10dps (0.33%) --- Verenity 0k @0dps (0%) --- Getsome 0k @0dps (0%)

So Tassive (dual epics I think) got destroyed by Adriana (monk) and of course Dravingar and Cecily (rogues). Of course, he was tanking in the front of the mob and probably had evasive or defensive up. I remember Anthrax (warrior) hitting 60-65 dps usually on raids, while Senaiel (paladin) and Myuharin (SK) usually were in the high 30s. Its that second gap that I think is crazy really.

I seem to remember Sakuragi usually parsed 40 dps or so with solid haste and Sarnak Warhammer/Silken Whip at L55 or so against xp mobs.

[Metallikus]

the problem is this is a raid encounter where the Tank (tassive) is either in evasive or defensive mode attacking from the front probly using a 2 hander to prevent multiple ripostes, while the monks and rogues are attacking from behind using their 30 minute refresh offensive disciplines.

Normally, a 60 warrior dual wielding epics with max haste and max str is on part with a similar geared monk because on this server, 60 warriors are the only class with triple attack.

[Splorf22]

Do you have some logs? I'm an engineer, we need numbers!

[greatdane]

Of course, he was tanking in the front of the mob and probably had evasive or defensive up.

That basically halves your DPS.


It was always the case back in live at the time that warriors were pretty close to monks, sometimes ahead of them depending on circumstances. Their damage tables are similar and what the monk gains in superior weapons and such, the warrior compensates for with the ability to crit.

How this applies here, I don't know exactly. Some parts of the code seem reverse-engineered and constructed from educated guesses.

[Splorf22]

Yeah but this is all empty air without logs.

[Arkanjil]

Although I don't have a 41% haste item yet, with epics or VP weapons I typically get around 45-60 dps, depending on the raid mob. Monks and rogues I've seen do around 80-100dps, it depends on the mob and situations like being feared, slowed, etc.

Maybe in the levels before 55, we can stay pretty close. But there comes a point where monks and rogue will do significantly more dps than warriors, though we aren't too shabby ourselves.

[Xaeophi]

Warriors wont usually be "top" dps on pars, but Ive seen some parses higher then monks or rogues that get blown up by aoes 8) but there really isnt any reason why a warrior should out damage a dps class.