quick bard charm question

[guineapig]

I know there have been a lot of changes to charm as well as to bard mechanics in recent weeks/months so I just had a quick question.


With the current state of bard charm, how important is charisma gear for effective soloing?

Are we talking about trying to get charisma up to around 200+?
Or is using a blue con low magic resist mob enough?

I'm currently using a Unicorn Horn as my wind instrument.

[km2783]

I know on my Enchanter, Charm is so utterly useless with 115 Cha I wish I had never bought the spell. :D I'm told it's 200 Cha or bust by a lot of people. Right now, I'm lucky if it lasts for fifteen seconds.

[guineapig]

I know on my Enchanter, Charm is so utterly useless with 115 Cha I wish I had never bought the spell. :D I'm told it's 200 Cha or bust by a lot of people. Right now, I'm lucky if it lasts for fifteen seconds.

Yes, you want as close to 250 as possible on a chanter. If your dealing with planar mobs you also need to have malo in addition to tash to have it last any reliable length of time and preferably a blue con mob with lower magic resists to begin with.

The charm code has recently been tweaked to reduce the reliability of charm for chanters and help a little bit for the other classes that don't generally have high charisma.

This effects druids, necros, shaman and bards.

I specifically want to know about how bards are being affected these days.

[astuce999]

Bard charm doesn`t work like it`s supposed to period. But in its mutated p99 format, wherethe lvl 27 charm will last indefinitely as long as you don't play any other song, charismahas had a huge impact since the latest changes. I get a charisma buff, I play charm with wind instrument then once it lands put in crude stein instead to bring my charisma to 183 and I get to keep a pet for a very long time(a couple minutes on average, sometimes over 5), enough to warrant giving him weapons and buffs.

I try to justify it to myself that it is a bit balance since I can't do anything else whileits charmed, but it really shouldn't work like this at all. Lvl 27 charm is supposed to be3 ticks or less, and lvl 39 charm should be up to a minute max, although for the latter theydid change mechanics a few times (I remember the patch message about bards being no longer able to charm dieties) so I can't say for sure without research, and I'm at work.

[guineapig]

Thank you, this basically answers my question.

So charisma does basically help with duration but the charisma requirement is not quite as extreme for bards as it is for chanters.

I was using charm as a CC tool in CT the other day (because my mez wasn't high enough level for the mobs we were fighting) and the charm seemed to land and drop land and drop every few tics when I'm just singing my charm song. Is this due to my charisma currently being low or just the way it works regardless? (charisma was probably around 100 at the time).

[astuce999]

If you play lvl 27 charm song and play other songs, it will last 3 ticks maximum, or less depending on charisma.

The way it is broken on p99 is that you`re not supposed to be able to just leave it playing, for an almost indefinite charm duration. It`s supposed to be played, graying out your songs, and when the next tick lands, if you haven`t played anything else, it`ll /stopsong automatically for you, and 3 ticks later
at the most, the mob will be uncharmed.

hope this helps a bit,

'Stuce

[Jify]

Meh. I leveled 30-50 charm kiting, with CHA <120.

As it stands now, I can still get full duration charms no problem with < 120 CHA, at lvl 50, against PoHate mobs.

So I'd say it's not terribly important, but low CHA will slow down your leveling potential.

[astuce999]

[QUOTE=Jify;67719]
As it stands now, I can still get full duration charms no problem with < 120 CHA, at lvl 50, against PoHate mobs.
QUOTE]

You're either very lucky or maybe have a lot of debuffs on PoHate mobs or something is different about how they work, because that's not how charm worked for me lvl 30-35 in BB hunting the dwarves. Before I got my charisma above 150 I would regularly get instant charm breaks, and the higher level I got and the higher my charisma got there would be less insta-breaks.

Sometimes while charm kiting a shaman or chanter would be in zone and I`d bum a charisma buff from them. Things would get a lot more consistent when I hit the 180ish charisma mark. Who knows with the random number
generator.

wtb tash stick!

'Stuce

[Gwence]

high charisma just gives u full length on lvl 39 charm more often, which is like a minute or so. the charm that doesnt cost mana only affects mobs that are level 37 or lower, you can charm those mobs indefintely just leave the song on.

wind instrument does nothing to mod your charm, I wouldnt bother even using one, have something with +cha equipped.

[guineapig]

I will definitely play around with these methods and see what the outcomes are.
I will be using the level 27 charm.
I'm guessing that starting with an MR debuff will help with getting the initial charm to stick but from the sounds of it, that might be an necessary step.

[astuce999]

high charisma just gives u full length on lvl 39 charm more often, which is like a minute or so. the charm that doesnt cost mana only affects mobs that are level 37 or lower, you can charm those mobs indefintely just leave the song on.

wind instrument does nothing to mod your charm, I wouldnt bother even using one, have something with +cha equipped.


Right, I agree with most of this, except that wind instrument will help your charm land in the first place, as opposed to being resisted, but after it has landed there`s no reason to keep it and can change to a +cha item (namely crude stein).

My only problem is that you're not supposed to be able to use the lvl 27 charm to keep mobs charmed indefinitely by keeping the song on, so not working as intended.

'Stuce

[Gwence]

I agree with most of this, except that wind instrument will help your charm land in the first place

Sorry pal, I have the best flute in the game and it does absolutely nothing except assist in playing invis song.

You want your highest charisma when u land the charm because that is when the check is done especially with the 39 charm.

[Jete]

Ok, lets stop the rumors. I wasn't going to post but you guys are making a lot up.

First off, CHA is huge for a Bard, just as it is for an enchanter. And Doug you of all people know this. If you really think less than 120 CHA will be good to go, you are wrong.

Second, never charm a mob in fear / hate.

Third, flute does nothing and if you want the truth, here it is. On live Wind instruments were a REQUIREMENT to cast the charm song, like the invis song, levi song and any other wind song. The flute effect ( 2.4X modifier or w/e ) has never and will never do anything to a song. All a wind instrument does is meet a item requirement, much like bone chips for necros.

And lastly, P99 has destroyed Bard charming. P99 is so Enchanter based it makes me cry. There is no reason bards should have to dmg to a mob to get full xp. And if you disagree with this, you try charming a mob for up to 1 min and having to do 1 dmg after every charm tick. Another thing is Bard charm should never put the aggro on the bard. This effectively has made bard charming worthless and even less classic than it already was.

As it stands with bard charm, We cannot swarm kite due to factions not working, we cannot kite, due to every mob having aggro after the first charm, we cannot get full xp unless you just happen to pull off 1 dmg before the mob dies, which requires an extra dps song twist in the midst of an already 5 twist. ( Nivs, regen, Selos, charm and levi if you dont have a cloak ) the good news however, is that we still need 40% more xp than every other class because we are just that awesome.

I have been gone a while and I will bring this up to Haynar ( if he cares, because I know they think charm is OP.. due to people whining about enchanters ) but the odds of anyone caring is pretty slim-to-none. The fact is, if you want to make a bard, congrats on your new mana song bot. If you want to raid and CC / charm and be useful, make an enchanter.

Edit*-

The most important thing for a bard is lowering magic resists on the mob. If you can get your hands on a tash stick of some sort or a malo / tash friend you're good to go.

If you go the tash stick route just dual wield them with haste song and a fair amount of dex until proc ( which requires chant of battle and self haste songs ) if and when the tash hits, charm the mob and start twisting double regen ( nivs and regen song. ) This is exactly why I stack hp / cha while soloing.

If you have more questions on the subject you can ask me directly, as I am probably one of the few bards that are consistently charming something somewhere.

[guineapig]

In your how to video you said that for charm soloing you only need to use one song. (as long as you have sow and lev).

Is the need for all these extra songs and additional damage due to something that was changed in a recent patch?

[Jete]

Well my video was an outdoor charm video. Indoors things change a bit.