Shaman creation

[Mythdar]

So, I'm creating at character creation screen trying to decide the optimal race for shaman (min/max) Ogre/Troll/Iksar?

[Itap]

Ogre

/thread

[Swish]

Don't go iksar, all the penalty of a troll but with shocking starter stats and more kos than a black guy accidentally walking in on a KKK meeting. Not to mention no decent iksar armors til Velious!

[sykotic]

Iksar is definitely a rougher road but at least you're not a sack of fat... Play whatever you want to, race really isn't that big of a deal . Ogre or troll are best for Min/Maxxers

[Camulet]

Barbarian for win. max/min is for losers. Looking pretty is where its at!!

[phobus]

There have been a number of these kinds of threads lately. Hopefully this one doesn't devolve into the usual insults and BS.

Shaman is a really powerful class at high level, no matter what race you pick. Each has its benefits, either in racial traits or usable items. None of these is a "make or break" trait in most situations, in my opinion. Others' opinions differ. :)

Full disclosure: I play an Ogre Shaman. <strike>Fat bags of fat</strike> Competitive eating champions need love, too!

[greatdane]

Optimal? Ogre. Anyone trying to dispute this is an imbecile. Some prefer troll for the regen efficiency because they overestimate its value, but if you want the objectively optimal race, ogre is #1 without question.

[Growlers]

Overestimate regen on a shaman? Regen is key, Trolls are sexy.

[Orruar]

Optimal? Ogre. Anyone trying to dispute this is an imbecile. Some prefer troll for the regen efficiency because they overestimate its value, but if you want the objectively optimal race, ogre is #1 without question.

Anyone who thinks an ogre is best is an imbecile. A slowed mob bashes once every 32 seconds. Half the time they kick instead of bash. Half the time they bash they miss. Half the time they bash, you are between casts anyway. So ogre stun immunity prevents you from 1 interrupt every 4 minutes or so. This is of fairly small value. And you can time your spells around bash if it's really a big concern.

No race has any gamebreaking or overpowered ability, it's all in how you play. All the best shamans on this server are barbarians. I've never seen an ogre or troll soloing anything remotely impressive.

[godbox]

regen at 60 is useless with topor thats just a straight up fact.
second ogre stun immune stops casting interrupts from frontal attacks. game over ogre wins at min/max from that + having someting like 40 extra starting stats

trolls win because they dont look like downsyndrom humans

[Danth]

I agree that Ogres are the best starting race for a Shaman. However:

"ogre stun immune stops casting interrupts from frontal attacks."

This is wrong. Ogres will be interrupted from melee push and channeling failures just the same as any other race.

This is a common misconception and I suspect has much to do with why many players seem to overvalue Ogre frontal stun resistance.

Danth

[greatdane]

Anyone who thinks an ogre is best is an imbecile. A slowed mob bashes once every 32 seconds. Half the time they kick instead of bash. Half the time they bash they miss. Half the time they bash, you are between casts anyway. So ogre stun immunity prevents you from 1 interrupt every 4 minutes or so. This is of fairly small value. And you can time your spells around bash if it's really a big concern.

No race has any gamebreaking or overpowered ability, it's all in how you play. All the best shamans on this server are barbarians. I've never seen an ogre or troll soloing anything remotely impressive.

Ah, it's Mr. Ad Hominem with the fairy-tale facts again.

[KefkaPalazzo]

Shamans are a good class if you enjoy buffing your raid.

[isoka]

regen at 60 is useless with topor thats just a straight up fact.
second ogre stun immune stops casting interrupts from frontal attacks. game over ogre wins at min/max from that + having someting like 40 extra starting stats

trolls win because they dont look like downsyndrom humans

This statement is the same than saying a fungi tunic is useless on a 60 shaman with torpor.
You can live without it, but it definitely makes it easier to have a fungi, even with torpor.
How many high level shaman play without regrowth on ? None.

Stun immune is a nice ability, but let's face it, situations where it saves your butt aren't that common. Regen is key for a shaman. Period.

[KefkaPalazzo]

This statement is the same than saying a fungi tunic is useless on a 60 shaman with torpor.
You can live without it, but it definitely makes it easier to have a fungi, even with torpor.
How many high level shaman play without regrowth on ? None.

Stun immune is a nice ability, but let's face it, situations where it saves your butt aren't that common. Regen is key for a shaman. Period.

[theaetatus]

How many high level shaman play without regrowth on ? None.


I'll wager a considerable number of those lvl 60 shamans would trade that regrowth for stun immunity.

My main on Live was a troll shammy and there were many times I'd have loved to have stun immunity. The extra regen and snare was nice but just not quite as nice.

Still, the choice is obviously between Ogre, Troll and Iksar in the end. Barbarian is the solid 4th best.

[Orruar]

Ah, it's Mr. Ad Hominem with the fairy-tale facts again.

Irony

[Scratch&Sniff]

Purple Eye Troll is the only real shaman.

[sykotic]

When grouping, stun immunity really doesn't do much for you though, whereas regen will.

For soloing stun immunity > regen, but a shaman shouldn't be taking hits in a group.

[Tecmos Deception]

regen at 60 is useless with topor thats just a straight up fact.

How much time do you spend, when you're actively playing your 60 shaman, at 100% hp?

(Pssst. It's a trick question.)

[dredge]

.

[skorge]

I say this everytime. I have a 54 ogre shaman on Red and played a troll shaman to 51 on blue. The troll > ogre. Even on a pvp server the frontal immunity has only benefited me a small handful of times vs. the ever constant regen the troll gets. Regen > Front Stun Immunity. Regen is on 100% of the time. You will use the stun immunity about 5% of the time you play the entire game as a shaman. Which would u prefer to have a racial trait that is ALWAYS in effect or one that is very very rarely in effect? Also keep in mind most people rolling shamans never take them to level 60. Yes, an ogre might be able to solo one or two mobs in the game better than a troll, but it's not worth it to pass up on the ever constant regen just for a couple of mobs (by the way a troll could solo those same mobs...)

Don't get me wrong, ogre is still a good choice but the ogre doesn't get on the same level as a troll until level 60, in which case the regen doesn't make a huge difference (the regen helps you level up faster ultimately). When Velious hits an ogre can take on stronger mobs a bit easier vs. other races but that doesn't meant the other races can't kill those mobs. The ogre just has a better chance...still even at level 60 I put the troll even with the ogre at level 60.

Both ogres and trolls are the best shaman races to choose from.

[Everlove]

It really depends on how you plan to play. I love trolls since they look cool and they solo / group well with their regen and good stats. When raiding or doing tougher 5 mans etc... I tend to lean toward my Ogre though. It's quite regular that you try to slow and get resisted and the mob(s) end up pounding on you while you continue to spam turgurs... this is where the non-frontal stun can save your group or raid a time or 2. It's a small token, and overall not a huge deal... I love trolls... but I play an Ogre.

However.. if you just want to level up, play casual with some friends... Any race will do. I'd suggest a troll, the regen is very handy for leveling.

[Everlove]

If it's your job to get mobs slowed... you try to slow til you die... for the benefit of the raid. True... Generally you'll only get 2 or 3 shots... but 2 or 3 is better than 1 if you're stunned from the mobs first round.

Truth is: Any good player can make any class or race work very well. If you don't wanna get stunned from the front, play an Ogre. If you don't care about it... play something else.

[Ferok]

If it's your job to get mobs slowed... you try to slow til you die... for the benefit of the raid. True... Generally you'll only get 2 or 3 shots... but 2 or 3 is better than 1 if you're stunned from the mobs first round.

Truth is: Any good player can make any class or race work very well. If you don't wanna get stunned from the front, play an Ogre. If you don't care about it... play something else.

SoRZ says if you bother pulling aggro, stun from the front will be the least of your concerns.

[Diro]

Iksar sham wins. Its true though, the best shams on the server are barbs. This doesnt mean barbs are best. The top shams like svenn n nord are probably apart of the best guilds and are probably very active so that goes toward being the "best" of the shaman on the server.

The truth is there is no best. It all depends on how you play and how good you play it. Having a kick ass guild that can get you the top gear like svenn n nord helps too.

[Reiker000]

Your job on a raid is also not to purposely out-agro the tank. If you try that strategy on, for example Klandicar or Zlandicar in velious, I am sure people will stop rezzing.
You and 3 other shamans would probably get 5 slow resists on a fully debuffed Klandicar before it lands. Have fun chain-casting 2 turgur, get resisted and dying after 2-3 rounds of hits.

A good shaman knows how often he can slow without getting too much agro.

I get what you're trying to say but it's pretty much BS. To a shaman it doesn't matter if you live or die during the fight, what matters is that you apply the slow in a reasonable amount of time. On Klandicar/Zlandicar it doesn't matter so much because a group of toddlers could kill them, but on a mob like Aaryonar try telling your raid that you're going to wait on slowing because you don't think the tank has enough aggro yet. See how long you last in that guild.

Aaryonar is basically "alright, mob's here, everyone who can potentially land any form of slow start going balls out."

[Obwin]

Not that anyone cares about my opinion but as someone who raided high end during velious on live Klubba is 100% correct (obviously). A lot of the fights are long enough to require multiple slows so good luck applying that second slow if all your shams are dead from "zerg" slowing. You need pre-slow CH heal chain and patch heals assignements to keep the warrior up until agro is good and slow is in. Then when slow lands the rest of DPS engage those some heals drop off tank and start raid healing. Probably not something people are very familiar with right now given the fights are 5 days of sitting on spawn point and 7 seconds of nuking.

Edit: Remember, during velious, raid forces were 35-60 max and often much smaller than that. Good luck downing anything if 25% of your raid force is shamans, lol.

[Obwin]

Ohh and to add to the actual debate - stun immunity isn't going to help you at all if you are getting quadded for 1200...lols. If anything, regen is marginally better during actual challenging raid mobs since you require less healing if you eat an AOE. Stun immunity is godly when trying to solo very high end mobs or in rare situations you get agro in group situations but other than that regen is much better.

Stun immunity is MUCH more beneficial to tanking classes like War/SK than it is to a shaman.

[Leezord]

Stun immunity makes more of a difference in velious......especially if you plan on soloing in WW. Just makes it easier and slightly safer.

I like all the shaman races.....just hate the no jbb aspect on iksar

[Byrjun]

JBB is overrated. The self clicky on the JBBP is always nice though.