Raid Changes

[Clark]

TMO, you have the right to state your displeasure with the removal of the artificial system that has been such a boon for your guild.

You do NOT have the right to call a long-needed and soul-wrangled compromise "a stupid fucking idea" without looking like a total douchebag.

The developers deserve a ton of credit for taking swifter and more effective action than anyone has had a right to expect.

Damn they just got served. :cool:

[bizzum]

Damn they just got served. :cool:

Great addition to the discussion, I really see your points about these proposed changes.

[Raavak]

3. Another random idea: I would love to see 'char binding'. In other words for the duration of the simulated repop you can only have one character of L45+ logged on. This prevents people with 3+ L60 chars from camping them out fully buffed at each spawnpoint and switching rapidly between accounts.
IP exemptions are for people to have others play with them at their houses. It's not to have a number of accounts with IP exemptions because they lied as to why they wanted one, so they can have one ready to log in as soon as something spawns. It is now something we can watch for.
I hope you're not saying that you are going to punish people switching characters really fast because of the exemption. If my kid isn't on the game when I'm switching, its not my fault :p. Besides the block is only like 1 minute, the difference between having it and not having it isn't that big a deal even in raid race situations.

[Heebo]

Since others are offering up suggestions, server reset Naggy and Vox should be off limits to raiding guilds. Three hour Naggy/Vox pickup raids with 60 noobs continuously training themselves is classic :)

[Mickets]

I am starting to see why WoW went with instances lol. Grown ass men and she-men hogging all the pixels.

BORING

[Splorf22]

I don't think he means having multiple chars in game at the same time, but rather having the ability to log in multiple raid-able chars that are buffed and camped at various locations for easy "mobilization". People do this but I think it is not all that many, except maybe for people with lvl 52s in SolB.

Yes, this is what I mean, and I think with simultaneous repops it will become much more prevalent.

Anyway, I'm just happy to see some action. If rogean has another post requesting velious developers i might have to send him a case of beer.

[bizzum]

Locking the ability for people to play the characters they want is not good for anything.

Oh, I accidentally logged in the wrong 46+, looks like I'm stuck on it for 5 hours.

Need an extra cleric for this raid or cleric left the group and I could replace him? Sorry, can't log on to my other characters until the repop is done.

Oh I'll buff our group with c2 my enchanter is camped at KC entrance. Oh, never mind.

Too many situations where this just interrupts the flow of gameplay. I understand your concern about people camping out multiple characters at multiple mobs, but I think its a lot more limited and small scale than you currently believe it to be. This is coming from somebody with more 60s than anybody should have (sigh).

[KefkaPalazzo]

BORING

Ya because unemployed middle aged men living at home competing over content by setting up a 72 hour observation post is really exciting!

[bizzum]

Ya because unemployed middle aged men living at home competing over content by setting up a 72 hour observation post is really exciting!

Very inaccurate picture of what is going on right now.

[KefkaPalazzo]

Please explain.

[bizzum]

The only part that really was correct in that sentence was 72 hours, as that is how long the window is.

You think that 90% of raiding people are unemployed, which is just malarkey (thx Biden).

It also sounds like you are saying that one single person sets up a 72 hour camp and never leaves. I'd say that the most any overachieving person would put in in a single week, not window, is 30-40 hours, and that would be 1% of the sample I have.

On average you will see between 2-3 hours per person. Its a team effort, that involves a large amount of people from different time zones, and in many cases there are gaps in the time that things are being watched. Obviously that is situational, but it occurs often.

Yes, there is tracking involved. No, it does not involve the effort of 10 unemployed neckbeards living at home staring at a computer screen in 12-72 hour shifts. Thats just dumb.

All this being said, I am 100% for the variance being halved, there is no need for whats happening now, whether people know exactly what it is or not. I will agree that its a lot of wasted manhours!

[KefkaPalazzo]

a lot of wasted manhours!

I think you are on to something bro.

[dragonfists]

We will be implementing an FTE notice of some sort, whether this is an emote or some type of message.



Have the mob shout to zone, can't be more clear than that and avoids any need for GM confirmation where pullers were OOR of an emote from mob.......

[Ravager]

I like everything Rogean has suggested. Personally, I don't think that more high end items on the market is going to be a bad thing for the server. CoF and epics are already farmed and sold all the time. The only folks it's going to hurt are the folks in EC selling Trak BPs, and I really don't have much sympathy for them.

[Raavak]

I think you are on to something bro.
Its a means to an end.

[Alarti0001]

Every member of your guild is a representative of your guild. A lot of you need to learn the difference between responsibility and making excuses for passing the buck.

everyone in our guild is allowed to have opinions and state them. you chose to call him TMO labeling a guild based on one opinion while there were multiple previous posts from tmo members supporting this.

shut up

[BigSlip]

what a suprise alarti here to stir thing up like the sad lil man he is.


this is what happens to u, when u play blu



u turn into alarti.


case closed

[Spitty]

This...is awesome. Yes, yes please.

[Tarathiel]

damn, the staff is really going out on a limb with this one and pretty much implementing everything people have been asking for and yet some people are still choosing to turn it into a pissing match. ffs cant you people learn to just get along already.

[Lostprophets]

/cheers

[Frieza_Prexus]

Slippery,

Please leave the discussion. Your input has been nothing but gems like "care bears thriving" and "bout time you gave all these sub par bluebies something to do besides whine!"

Once your mother has given you your dose of Adderall, you may rejoin the conversation if you believe you can produce comments of merit.

Thank you.

[Metallikus]

I don't agree with the part where mobs keep their spawn timers seperately from the simulated reset. The simulated patch should repop the world.

[Ferok]

Nevermind, it was out of context.

[BigSlip]

Slippery,

Please leave the discussion. Your input has been nothing but gems like "care bears thriving" and "bout time you gave all these sub par bluebies something to do besides whine!"

Once your mother has given you your dose of Adderall, you may rejoin the conversation if you believe you can produce comments of merit.

Thank you.

somebodys mad they have to share pixels with the other care bears.


blues... psh

[Tarathiel]

somebodys mad they have to share pixels with the other care bears.


blues... psh

actually his posts have all been well spoken and well thought out, unlike the drivel you spew forth on a daily basis

[BigSlip]

calm down youre getting a pixel soon...


i think

[Aata]

this is awesome, i have a renewed hope in the raid scene. obviously some kinks will need to be worked out but this is a step in the right direction.

This ^

[Pringles]

ffs cant you people learn to just get along already.

What do you mean "you people"

HUH?!?!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xPxs0Qh72kY#t=40s

[Rali]

Why even respond to the fool? It's was much more amusing when he posted multiple times and absolutely no one responded! :D

[BigSlip]

pixels for everyone!!!


man this game gets the heart beating! You know, when u kill a dragon?!




Yeah!!!!

[Ferok]

But overall I think any sort of simultaneous repop is great. The only tweak that might be necessary is something to prevent what I described earlier: many players have multiple L60 accounts (even people not in TMO, like, sadly, me). The strategy already is to camp out fully buffed for multiple mobs. So I think something along the lines of 'once you log on during the first 2 hours after a reset on one character, you can't switch' would really help.

I don't really agree.

I'd much rather see legal account sales banned. If they worked to have multiple level 60's then they should be rewarded for that. Buying characters for plat is bad for the server, in my opinion.

[BigSlip]

wts 60 necro, vp gear all spells, trade for a tootsie roll or best offer

[Ravager]

I don't really agree.

I'd much rather see legal account sales banned. If they worked to have multiple level 60's then they should be rewarded for that. Buying characters for plat is bad for the server, in my opinion.

+1

[BigSlip]

I think the only thing more sad than blu is the people tracking on blue.


EVEN more so bda etc that track there asses off and show up late every time...

[Spitty]

damn, the staff is really going out on a limb with this one and pretty much implementing everything people have been asking for and yet some people are still choosing to turn it into a pissing match. ffs cant you people learn to just get along already.

People asking for changes, then complaining about those changes when they're implemented nearly exactly to spec?

Classic! Classic across the board.

[Versus]

Poor Slippery, what happened to you? :(

[Kindadar]

No matter which side of the table you're sitting on, this is definitely a positive for the server. Thanks for taking this situation with the consideration that you have. Coming from someone who used to play on Test Server(3-5 repops/day sometimes with a lower server pop than here), this is something I greatly favor. No one really gets shafted here, and it is only healthy. Even the lower levels might like it if the entire world gets repopped as well(dungeons/named).

Thanks again.

[Splorf22]

Yeah maybe you guys are right. In any case I think the important part is simultaneous repops, and then observing and maybe tweaking a bit depending on the results.

In any case I'm guessing the server will hit 700 this weekend for the first time in a long time.

[bamzal]

bout time you gave all these sub par bluebies something to do besides whine!

ya next he can throw us whiners on red a bone

[Zeelot]

As much as I would like more loot to spread around, I think there should be balance so that there are not too many spawns to make the experience different from classic EQ. I'm not sure which idea is best, but many interesting ones have been mentioned.

- Have the repop occur every other week, rather than weekly
- Timers reset on repop, rather than continuing
- Repop bosses drop 1(or more?) less drops than a variance spawn
- Veeshan's Peak Rule Change (Problem with this is that my members 'train' and kill me accidentally all the time. Navigating past dragons/see invis in VP isn't easy if you aren't careful. They are lucky I can't petition their asses!)

Also, I think you should take away afternoon/evening limitation. This server has euro/asia-time players too that can raid at other times. Classic EQ server resets happened at all different times.

[Slave]

In any case I'm guessing the server will hit 700 this weekend for the first time in a long time.

Really with a revamp like this addressing most of the raiding concerns all at once, the sky is the limit for the future of P99.

[Thana8088]

Absolutely amazing to have Rogean and Nilbog respond so positively to expressed server needs. I am looking forward to the results of this endeavor!

[Slave]

As much as I would like more loot to spread around, I think there should be balance so that there are not too many spawns to make the experience too different from classic EQ. I'm not sure which idea is best, but many interesting ones have been mentioned.

- Have the repop occur every other week, rather than weekly
- Timers reset on repop, rather than continuing
- Repop bosses drop 1(or more?) less drops than a variance spawn
- Veeshan's Peak Rule Change


I agree with this. Additionally, the sole VP Rule Change should be: it is now exactly like the rest of the server. That would promote competition across the board as TMO has to deal with BD entering VP. You will then have to decide which spawns make the most sense to pursue first, instead of inadvertently cockblocking the rest of the server on lesser mobs you've done 100 times due to the ruleset and leaving a trainer or two in VP to hold the fort.

[Heebo]

I agree with this. Additionally, the sole VP Rule Change should be: it is now exactly like the rest of the server. That would promote competition across the board as TMO has to deal with BD entering VP. You will then have to decide which spawns make the most sense to pursue first, instead of inadvertently cockblocking the rest of the server on lesser mobs you've done 100 times due to the ruleset and leaving a trainer or two in VP to hold the fort.

But training in VP is fun! Ask Shinko or Chest! Since you are clear in thinking that members actions reflect the attitudes of a guild as a whole, I would assume all of BDA would enjoy training in VP by looking at the actions of two officers.

[Metallikus]

I agree with this. Additionally, the sole VP Rule Change should be: it is now exactly like the rest of the server. That would promote competition across the board as TMO has to deal with BD entering VP. You will then have to decide which spawns make the most sense to pursue first, instead of inadvertently cockblocking the rest of the server on lesser mobs you've done 100 times due to the ruleset and leaving a trainer or two in VP to hold the fort.

good point.

also, the talk about changing loot tables on mobs is absurd. Just reset the server on simulated repop, don't keep the additional timers on mobs - totally unclassic.

[heartbrand]

This is a continuation from the other thread ( http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86005 ).

Here is what nilbog and I are currently planning/designing/brainstorming:

We will be cutting the variance in half on the existing raid spawns.

We will be implementing an FTE notice of some sort, whether this is an emote or some type of message.

We will be implementing a simulated patch day respawn. Here is how it will work.

The server will pick one day of each week (Random 1 to 7, Sunday through Saturday). It will then pick a random time. I will not disclose the range of the possible times, but it will only include afternoon and evening hours, so as to give the best chance for the most people to benefit from it.

A serverwide message will go off indicating that the simulated patch day respawn has or will be taking effect shortly. All raid mobs will (either immediately, delayed, or spanned, tbd) respawn.

These respawns will NOT affect the normal respawn times of the mob. For example. If Talendor was killed on Monday, and on death the server determined he would spawn again on Sunday. A simulated patch day occurs on Thursday, his death on Thursday will not reset his scheduled respawn time on Sunday.
Exception: If the mob's spawn time is scheduled to occur within (To be determined, probably either 6 or 12 hours) of the simulated patch day respawn, it will calculate a new spawn time for the mob as it would had he been killed normally, when he dies from the simulated respawn.

Discuss, and know that this system is not final, now or even when it goes live. We will evaluate how it plays out.

Will this affect red? Would also help create more competition there

[Slave]

Will this affect red? Would also help create more competition there

This is a good point and while Red server has other means at their disposal to promote raid competition, I would not wish lengthy variance on anyone.

[Tarathiel]

the only problem i see with a full server repop on these random "patch days" would be how it would affect the non-raiding portion of the community. it would be kind of unfair to repop zones where people are xping and disrupt their groups by having the whole zone repop on them. this would lead to many people dying in bad spots and ultimately lots of petitions for GM rezzes. i think the random repops should be kept exclusively to raid mobs that way the entire server doesnt have to grind to a halt because of the raid mobs spawning.

[Alarti0001]

Poor Slippery, what happened to you? :(

Im guessing gingivitis

[Autotune]

This is a continuation from the other thread ( http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86005 ).

Here is what nilbog and I are currently planning/designing/brainstorming:

We will be cutting the variance in half on the existing raid spawns.

We will be implementing an FTE notice of some sort, whether this is an emote or some type of message.

We will be implementing a simulated patch day respawn. Here is how it will work.

The server will pick one day of each week (Random 1 to 7, Sunday through Saturday). It will then pick a random time. I will not disclose the range of the possible times, but it will only include afternoon and evening hours, so as to give the best chance for the most people to benefit from it.

A serverwide message will go off indicating that the simulated patch day respawn has or will be taking effect shortly. All raid mobs will (either immediately, delayed, or spanned, tbd) respawn.

These respawns will NOT affect the normal respawn times of the mob. For example. If Talendor was killed on Monday, and on death the server determined he would spawn again on Sunday. A simulated patch day occurs on Thursday, his death on Thursday will not reset his scheduled respawn time on Sunday.
Exception: If the mob's spawn time is scheduled to occur within (To be determined, probably either 6 or 12 hours) of the simulated patch day respawn, it will calculate a new spawn time for the mob as it would had he been killed normally, when he dies from the simulated respawn.

Discuss, and know that this system is not final, now or even when it goes live. We will evaluate how it plays out.

1)Variance in half - great step
2)FTE emote - great step
3)Simulated re-spawns - great step
3a) Random day per week - great step
3b) I think this is fine, honestly. The more mobs that are in circulation, the less need to kill them repeatedly, not to mention the effort to track and kill the mobs has been halved (actually less considering a bonus round appears every week)

As much as I would like more loot to spread around, I think there should be balance so that there are not too many spawns to make the experience different from classic EQ. I'm not sure which idea is best, but many interesting ones have been mentioned.

- Have the repop occur every other week, rather than weekly
- Timers reset on repop, rather than continuing
- Repop bosses drop 1(or more?) less drops than a variance spawn
- Veeshan's Peak Rule Change (Problem with this is that my members train and kill me accidentally all the time. Navigating past dragons/see invis in VP isn't easy if you aren't careful. They are lucky I can't petition their asses!)

Also, I think you should take away afternoon/evening limitation. This server has euro/asia-time players too that can raid at other times. Classic EQ server resets happened at all different times.

I think repop mobs should drop exactly what every other mob drops. It's perhaps the best chance other guilds have at obtaining raid loot (look at what guilds get what on repop days, then look at what they get normally).

I also don't think anything should be changed in VP, rule wise.

No matter what times are chosen, some people will always be excluded when the actual repop happens. Perhaps increase the chance that the mobs can spawn earlier/later to open the window a little more, but I wouldn't go crazy with it myself either. Most people work 8hr days, anywhere from 12-16 hours should cover the majority of timezones if the window is placed right.

The only addition I can suggest is to implement rules on the respawn mobs. Similar to what I suggested before. 1 guild gets 1 target per group of mobs. Make the guilds play nice on respawn mobs and then select the mob groups based on loot and demand. With all the mobs that are going in to the system the way it currently is, I think this is definitely agreeable by everyone. It is also something that is easily monitored by guilds and should come with serious punishment if broken or rule lawyer'd.

[Handull]

then teleport all players in zone to the zone succor point and respawn everything across all zones.

i feel sorry for the guy who was afk in chardok or charasis

[Thana8088]

the only problem i see with a full server repop on these random "patch days" would be how it would affect the non-raiding portion of the community. it would be kind of unfair to repop zones where people are xping and disrupt their groups by having the whole zone repop on them. this would lead to many people dying in bad spots and ultimately lots of petitions for GM rezzes. i think the random repops should be kept exclusively to raid mobs that way the entire server doesnt have to grind to a halt because of the raid mobs spawning.

These people will be given an opportunity to leave the area before server comes down, no? Or would the server not come down first?

[Ferok]

I don't believe the repopping applies to anything other than raid mobs.

[Tarathiel]

These people will be given an opportunity to leave the area before server comes down, no?

even with notice it will still put alot of people in a bad spot, i just dont really see the need to repop the whole server when its just raid mobs that are in question. even if they have to stop what they are doing and go log in a safe spot till server comes back up its still disrupting will often lead to groups(or portions of them) just calling it. who is to say what is better tho, a full repop falls more in line with classic so its really just up for debate until we can see a few of em happen and have some evidence to work with

as far as loot and timers are concerned i say leave the loot tables unchanged but reset timers on all kills, whether its from a repop or normal spawn if the mob gets killed the timer should reset

[Ferok]

even with notice it will still put alot of people in a bad spot, i just dont really see the need to repop the whole server when its just raid mobs that are in question. even if they have to stop what they are doing and go log in a safe spot till server comes back up its still disrupting will often lead to groups(or portions of them) just calling it. who is to say what is better tho, a full repop falls more in line with classic so its really just up for debate until we can see a few of em happen and have some evidence to work with

as far as loot and timers are concerned i say leave the loot tables unchanged but reset timers on all kills, whether its from a repop or normal spawn if the mob gets killed the timer should reset


A serverwide message will go off indicating that the simulated patch day respawn has or will be taking effect shortly. All raid mobs will (either immediately, delayed, or spanned, tbd) respawn.

[Tarathiel]

a few people have expressed that they think it should be a full server repop, i was merely addressing those people. i guess thats what quotes are for lol

[Ferok]

a few people have expressed that they think it should be a full server repop, i was merely addressing those people. i guess thats what quotes are for lol

Okay, sorry. I guess I skipped over some context. I kept seeing people arguing against non-raid-mob repops, didn't notice anyone arguing for it.

[Arclanz]

Anything to address the denial of content is a good thing. Skeptical that this solution will make a dent in it. Some players simply have nothing better to do than gear alts or RMT. Doubling the amount of spawns means these players can do it twice as fast. Is implementing raid tokens (with lockout timers) THAT difficult?

[stonez138]

There seems to be little difference between raid tokens and instanced encounters imo and the vast majority of the server seems opposed to instances.

[Orruar]

There seems to be little difference between raid tokens and instanced encounters imo and the vast majority of the server seems opposed to instances.

The vast majority of TMO may be against it. I'm sure it would be tough to see people beating content with 12 people that takes them 40. I think I've seen one or maybe two non TMO come out against instanced content / tokens. I guess we'll find out which system is more popular if the Sleeper server ever launches.

[Ferok]

Competing for spawns, whether it's the shin lord or trakanon, is essential classic everquest.

[Arrisard]

Over all good changes. I'd go every other week, but that isn't too big of deal I guess. Limiting the repops to certain hours though is very disappointing.

[Splorf22]

So one random idea: every tick the server has a chance to respawn, and that chance proportional to the number of players online.

[Thana8088]

I guess we'll find out which system is more popular if the Sleeper server ever launches.

Well, have fun there and don't bother writing. ;)

[Frieza_Prexus]

The vast majority of TMO may be against it. I'm sure it would be tough to see people beating content with 12 people that takes them 40. I think I've seen one or maybe two non TMO come out against instanced content / tokens. I guess we'll find out which system is more popular if the Sleeper server ever launches.

Orruar, I generally respect your posts. I've often found that when I go to post about something that you've, quite eloquently, beaten me to the punch. You're generally level headed and well spoken and I tend to agree with much of your analysis.

I must agree with Elethia that some of your recent posts have been unbecoming of you and your blanket statements very much beneath your typical style.

[Splorf22]

The vast majority of TMO may be against it. I'm sure it would be tough to see people beating content with 12 people that takes them 40. I think I've seen one or maybe two non TMO come out against instanced content / tokens. I guess we'll find out which system is more popular if the Sleeper server ever launches.

It may or may not be more popular, but I don't think instances really fit with classic EQ.

[bizzum]

I'm sure it would be tough to see people beating content with 12 people that takes them 40.

Wat

What content requires 40?

[quido]

dick taters

[Nordenwatch]

You did it loraen!

[Xanthias]

This is a continuation from the other thread ( http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86005 ).

We will be implementing an FTE notice of some sort, whether this is an emote or some type of message.


Is there a way to code it so when the FTE hits a /who is done at the same time.
Just as a way to prevent FTE sniping from taking place.

If Guild A has 40 in zone and going for Trak, Guild B's ranger fires an arrow just as Guild A is about to engage. Guild B gets FTE, but they have no one in zone cept the sad lil ranger. Guild A kills gets loot because they killed the mob, but the FTE log will show they didn't have FTE even though the other guild didn't have a kill force.

[Ele]

Is there a way to code it so when the FTE hits a /who is done at the same time.
Just as a way to prevent FTE sniping from taking place.

If Guild A has 40 in zone and going for Trak, Guild B's ranger fires an arrow just as Guild A is about to engage. Guild B gets FTE, but they have no one in zone cept the sad lil ranger. Guild A kills gets loot because they killed the mob, but the FTE log will show they didn't have FTE even though the other guild didn't have a kill force.

Them's the breaks with FTE.

[doraf]

Either this, or respawn mobs drop less loot (and idea Rogean brought up) Thus giving the casual player a better chance to see/kill a dragon, while simultaneously not flooding the market with more Orb of Tishan's and Heirophant's Crooks.

The point of killing a dragon is risk vs. reward. If there is no reward, then there's no point in killing the dragon. I understand, you're worried that you won't be able to charge 300k for a SK epic or ask 60k for scales. There might be competition.

[Orruar]

Is there a way to code it so when the FTE hits a /who is done at the same time.
Just as a way to prevent FTE sniping from taking place.

If Guild A has 40 in zone and going for Trak, Guild B's ranger fires an arrow just as Guild A is about to engage. Guild B gets FTE, but they have no one in zone cept the sad lil ranger. Guild A kills gets loot because they killed the mob, but the FTE log will show they didn't have FTE even though the other guild didn't have a kill force.

Then we get back to 15 man minimum and rule lawyering. And what about people who just kill shit with friends? Or guilds that raid together? etc. etc. Personally, I'm gonna keep a toon camped out at trak ledge and farm trak BPs from TMO.

[Heebo]

Is there a way to code it so when the FTE hits a /who is done at the same time.
Just as a way to prevent FTE sniping from taking place.

If Guild A has 40 in zone and going for Trak, Guild B's ranger fires an arrow just as Guild A is about to engage. Guild B gets FTE, but they have no one in zone cept the sad lil ranger. Guild A kills gets loot because they killed the mob, but the FTE log will show they didn't have FTE even though the other guild didn't have a kill force.

Guild A should stop attacking when they see Xanhiooes being shouted by the dragon.

[Orruar]

Wat

What content requires 40?

For most people, none. But I've witnessed TMO wipe to Gorenaire with that number. I've heard plenty of stories of similar numbers on other Kunark dragons.

[Splorf22]

You did it loraen!

All casual guilds owe me 100k, please deposit with my EC mule promptly, thank you and good day. :P

[Ferok]

Is there a way to code it so when the FTE hits a /who is done at the same time.
Just as a way to prevent FTE sniping from taking place.

If Guild A has 40 in zone and going for Trak, Guild B's ranger fires an arrow just as Guild A is about to engage. Guild B gets FTE, but they have no one in zone cept the sad lil ranger. Guild A kills gets loot because they killed the mob, but the FTE log will show they didn't have FTE even though the other guild didn't have a kill force.

If Guild B can't kill the mob with their current force, and they get FTE, camp or watch them die. Then kill the mob.

The previous problem with FTE is that nobody knew (for certain) who was FTE until after the mob was dead, and the dust settled. That will be eliminated, it seems.

[Ele]

For most people, none. But I've witnessed TMO wipe to Gorenaire with that number. I've heard plenty of stories of similar numbers on other Kunark dragons.

Best of luck with your endeavors Orruar!

[El B]

SHAWING!

[bizzum]

For most people, none. But I've witnessed TMO wipe to Gorenaire with that number. I've heard plenty of stories of similar numbers on other Kunark dragons.

Whatever you say; you don't seem like anybody who could be persuaded to think any other way. TMO wouldn't be the first guild to fuck up a pull or encounter and wipe with excessive numbers, but don't forget about all of the sub-30 or even 25 man Trak, Gore, and hell, any other mob kills that you didn't witness.

GL doing your 12 man encounters with tokens!!!

[Orruar]

Orruar, I generally respect your posts. I've often found that when I go to post about something that you've, quite eloquently, beaten me to the punch. You're generally level headed and well spoken and I tend to agree with much of your analysis.

I must agree with Elethia that some of your recent posts have been unbecoming of you and your blanket statements very much beneath your typical style.

In general, I hate blanket statements (oh the irony!), but TMO has been a stain on this server for a while. I said the same about TR when they were around, even though I had many friends in TR. Those two guilds (and others before them) took the raiding game in this server into a shitty place, and every single member of each guild is culpable for that. I refused to join TR despite having many friends in that guild, because I could not be a part of something so shady.

Every single TMO member that was on during the famous Trakanon trains bears some responsibility, along with the TR people who were there as well. You guys knew what was going on and you stayed there to help your team, even when it was obvious both teams were in the wrong. And this wasn't some kind of isolated incident. This shit was happening a couple times a week for months on end. Any person who would keep themselves involved in such an environment is not worthy of defense.

Perhaps things have changed in the past couple months. I've been too busy to keep up with most of the happenings on the server. And with the amount of turnover TMO has, it's wholly possible that it's populated less with idiots and more with reasonable people. However, my few chance encounters with TMO groups in the past couple weeks do not indicate this to be true. You want a perfect example? A few weeks back, I came across a monk/shaman TMO duo going for pawbuster. The shaman died somehow and so I stepped in to help the monk get the kill. When I won the roll for the pipe, I let him have it anyway because he was someone I had duo'ed with back when he was in Divinity. Just minutes after he loots the pipe, I start getting hate messages from a different group of TMO saying I stole their kill. TMO are such douchebags that they send hate messages to someone who didn't get any loot and only helped one of their own guildmates. Does that seem like the kind of people you'd want to associate with? Maybe a tiger can change its stripes, but I'll wait until I see it happen before I believe it.

[Autotune]

For most people, none. But I've witnessed TMO wipe to Gorenaire with that number. I've heard plenty of stories of similar numbers on other Kunark dragons.

you wanna go there? I've seen every raid guild that has even raided the past year wipe with more than 40 on multiple targets, Noble in sky being one of them.

[stonez138]

A few weeks back, I came across a monk/shaman TMO duo going for pawbuster. The shaman died somehow and so I stepped in to help the monk get the kill. When I won the roll for the pipe, I let him have it anyway because he was someone I had duo'ed with back when he was in Divinity. Just minutes after he loots the pipe, I start getting hate messages from a different group of TMO saying I stole their kill. TMO are such douchebags that they send hate messages to someone who didn't get any loot and only helped one of their own guildmates.

In before Alarti can say "where's your proof"

[Autotune]

In before Alarti can say "where's your proof"

Wish I cared enough to remember every single time someone got upset about something I did and then bashed their entire guild. Every guild has sent me hate tells, even Divinity members, yet I don't think I've every bashed an entire guild for just that.

Guess every guild on project 1999 is full of douchebags.

[Orruar]

Wish I cared enough to remember every single time someone got upset about something I did and then bashed their entire guild. Every guild has sent me hate tells, even Divinity members, yet I don't think I've every bashed an entire guild for just that.

Guess every guild on project 1999 is full of douchebags.

I'm sorry, did you want me to list all 4218 instances of TMO being douchebags that I have witnessed? I was giving a recent example since I was discussing the possibility that they have changed since the shenanigans of this spring. My opinion has not been formed based on a single encounter, and to suggest otherwise is foolish.

And I'm sure you can't remember all the times you pissed someone off because you do so many douchey things in any given day that the sheer volume of information would overload the last 35 neurons you have.

[godbox]

almost 40 pages of thread in 2 days with level headed adult discussion (minus a few ppl from red / emerald dream?)
great job

[Eccezan]

In general, I hate blanket statements (oh the irony!), but TMO has been a stain on this server for a while. I said the same about TR when they were around, even though I had many friends in TR. Those two guilds (and others before them) took the raiding game in this server into a shitty place, and every single member of each guild is culpable for that. I refused to join TR despite having many friends in that guild, because I could not be a part of something so shady.

Every single TMO member that was on during the famous Trakanon trains bears some responsibility, along with the TR people who were there as well. You guys knew what was going on and you stayed there to help your team, even when it was obvious both teams were in the wrong. And this wasn't some kind of isolated incident. This shit was happening a couple times a week for months on end. Any person who would keep themselves involved in such an environment is not worthy of defense.

Perhaps things have changed in the past couple months. I've been too busy to keep up with most of the happenings on the server. And with the amount of turnover TMO has, it's wholly possible that it's populated less with idiots and more with reasonable people. However, my few chance encounters with TMO groups in the past couple weeks do not indicate this to be true. You want a perfect example? A few weeks back, I came across a monk/shaman TMO duo going for pawbuster. The shaman died somehow and so I stepped in to help the monk get the kill. When I won the roll for the pipe, I let him have it anyway because he was someone I had duo'ed with back when he was in Divinity. Just minutes after he loots the pipe, I start getting hate messages from a different group of TMO saying I stole their kill. TMO are such douchebags that they send hate messages to someone who didn't get any loot and only helped one of their own guildmates. Does that seem like the kind of people you'd want to associate with? Maybe a tiger can change its stripes, but I'll wait until I see it happen before I believe it.

That was a good discussion. /flame on

http://us3.memecdn.com/thank-you-god_o_548604.jpg

[El B]

dont turn this into a "reasons why tmo are d-bags" thread. there are plenty of them in RnF

[Autotune]

I'm sorry, did you want me to list all 4218 instances of TMO being douchebags that I have witnessed? I was giving a recent example since I was discussing the possibility that they have changed since the shenanigans of this spring. My opinion has not been formed based on a single encounter, and to suggest otherwise is foolish.

And I'm sure you can't remember all the times you pissed someone off because you do so many douchey things in any given day that the sheer volume of information would overload the last 35 neurons you have.

Yeah, from your quote, I am sure everyone can see who is the real peach to play with.

[KessonDaslef]

I'm sorry, did you want me to list all 4218 instances of TMO being douchebags that I have witnessed? I was giving a recent example since I was discussing the possibility that they have changed since the shenanigans of this spring. My opinion has not been formed based on a single encounter, and to suggest otherwise is foolish.

And I'm sure you can't remember all the times you pissed someone off because you do so many douchey things in any given day that the sheer volume of information would overload the last 35 neurons you have.

[Eccezan]

I'm sorry, did you want me to list all 4218 instances of TMO being douchebags that I have witnessed? I was giving a recent example since I was discussing the possibility that they have changed since the shenanigans of this spring. My opinion has not been formed based on a single encounter, and to suggest otherwise is foolish.

And I'm sure you can't remember all the times you pissed someone off because you do so many douchey things in any given day that the sheer volume of information would overload the last 35 neurons you have.

I challenge your claim of 4218 separate instances of douchebaggary occuring to you personally. That's right, I am calling you a LIAR.

[Hailto]

Almost all TMO have been pretty friendly from my experience. Granted im not contesting raid spawns against them though.

[Splorf22]

Orruar, enough about the TMO as douchebags theme. As you can see from Eccezan they love it anyway. I've met plenty of nice people in TMO; what separates them from the other players on this server is that they care more. Usually when I get into some conflict in P1999 I just give up because the drama isn't worth it to me. TMO players in general care more about pixels than other players and are willing to go through more crap (both game and social) to get them. Thats why they're in TMO. Even Fountree is a decent enough guy, he just wants his pixels so badly that he's willing to CR for hundreds of hours in VP. Nothing wrong with that.

Back on topic: All hail 1999!

[Orruar]

I challenge your claim of 4218 separate instances of douchebaggary occuring to you personally. That's right, I am calling you a LIAR.

If only I had as much free time as the average unemployed TMO member, I'd list them all for you.

[Orruar]

Orruar, enough about the TMO as douchebags theme.

Umm, thanks for the suggestion. I will continue to speak my mind.

[LizardNecro]

Any sort of system we implement I'd like to have more emphasis on letting other guilds get a chance at these mobs. I've brainstormed a little before, perhaps some type of random simulated patch day respawns that prevented the last guild which killed the mob from engaging them? Might be a terrible idea, might be a good idea. This is brainstorming though, and anyone responding like Cash can go fuck yourselves please. Constructive opinions and feedback with positive attitudes.

Hi Rogean,

If you are still open to brainstorming, I'd like to bring up an idea. Let me first set some context by listing some assumptions:

I believe that guilds that do more work should get more loot.
I believe that small guilds that do less work should get some loot.
I believe competition is fun, and racing to targets is fun.
I believe having no targets is not fun.

I love the idea that you propose in your topic. I truly think FTE shouts, server repops, and raid variance will make a difference. I also agree with the points you made in the other thread, that the top guild will get almost all the loot anyways. I think this will definitely happen, and we'll see smaller guilds get, as you say, 1 maybe 2 targets. That's certainly better than nothing, but it does leave a lot to be desired.

Enter the idea of raid tokens. Guilds get some number X of tokens per time period, and can use them to spawn raid targets.

Small guilds that will never be able to batphone/poopsock/etc will still get some loot.
Big guilds that do more work will get the lion's share of loot.
Second tier guilds have a chance at fighting for the lion's share with the big guilds, but have a fallback plan.

What I like about the raid token idea is how it lets smaller guilds get something, while still rewarding the raid guilds for their persistence and dedication. It feels to me like the best of both worlds. You still have the immersion of a full world, with real reasons to compete. You lose the cockblocking aspect.

I fully realize it's not classic, and not in line with your original vision. I thought I'd post this since you mentioned brainstorming.

To be clear, I would suggest adding raid tokens in addition to the changes you proposed in the original post. The number of tokens, the time period they last, and all of that can be discussed later.

Let me now to over the problems I see with raid tokens.

1) Not classic
This is a much more invasive change than FTE shouts and variance. I agree it's not classic.

2) Big guilds will split up into 12 man guilds to get as many raid tokens as possible.
I think it's almost certain that something like this would happen. The player base, as a whole, would have an incentive to make as many guilds as possible to get the most tokens possible.

3) Adds more loot to the system
More loot goes into the system, running the risk of mudflation and devaluing the work that dedicated players did to build their characters.

I'm sure there are more problems, but these to me are the three biggest problems. I wanted to acknowledge them.

I think it would be worth having a discussion on this. I'd like to think that the pros outweigh the cons, but it's quite possible that I am overlooking a problematic exploit. The main problem I see raid tokens solving is how small guilds get nothing under the current system. I love the idea that guilds can get something, even if it's only 1-2 spawns, without taking away from the big guilds that put in tremendous work.

[arsenalpow]

I can guarantee that BDA would take an interest in VP if training weren't the deciding factor in the zone. This might mean that TMO would have to defend VP immediately upon a server repop instead of leaving VP until the end after they competed for other targets.

Other guilds would then have a better shot at taking targets. Just a thought.

[Autotune]

I can guarantee that BDA would take an interest in VP if training weren't the deciding factor in the zone. This might mean that TMO would have to defend VP immediately upon a server repop instead of leaving VP until the end after they competed for other targets.

Other guilds would then have a better shot at taking targets. Just a thought.

if they leave everything they've said and implement it and add in what I said, where they group respawn targets and only allow a guild to kill 1 target per group, people would be able to start obtaining VP loot.

Granted TMO would probably kill PD every time, but once TMO has killed PD just make it so TMO can't train because there isn't a dragon for them to kill in that group. Put a 24hour time on the dragons, if the dragons aren't all dead by then they go FFA.

Simple enough and with shortened windows, it won't hurt the normal spawn if at all.

[finalgrunt]

Awesome! Hope to see it implemented :):):)


if they leave everything they've said and implement it and add in what I said, where they group respawn targets and only allow a guild to kill 1 target per group, people would be able to start obtaining VP loot.

Granted TMO would probably kill PD every time, but once TMO has killed PD just make it so TMO can't train because there isn't a dragon for them to kill in that group. Put a 24hour time on the dragons, if the dragons aren't all dead by then they go FFA.

Simple enough and with shortened windows, it won't hurt the normal spawn if at all.

Is it me, or are you suggesting some kind of rotation-ish here? Wow boy, your time off this server sure changed you ;)

[Autotune]

Awesome! Hope to see it implemented :):):)




Is it me, or are you suggesting some kind of rotation-ish here? Wow boy, your time off this server sure changed you ;)

It's not a rotation, it's more of a rule for targets on respawn days, that's all. It's bonus mobs that the server doesn't regularly see already.

All other normal spawning mobs would still act the same way.

PS, I haven't changed.

[Nips]

I think its good but you are really screwing over the euros by only spawning mobs in the afternoons and evenings. I don't see a problem just leaving it entirely random, I'm sure other guilds will log on for late night attempts when there is a server msg and they don't have to do any tracking.

[gloine36]

I just love the whole idea of the random server repop once a week and the varience being cut in half.
Thanks for doing it and Thanks for the server!

[Boilon]

I think all of these are great improvements, would like to see maybe some more accommodation for Euro/Az/Aus timezones like many have mentioned about, or making the variance timer to better accommodate all timezones

[bizzum]

I think all of these are great improvements, would like to see maybe some more accommodation for Euro/Az/Aus timezones like many have mentioned about, or making the variance timer to better accommodate all timezones

If I still lived in Japan I would adamantly be voicing against this. I think it's a good point still though, it should be random so all players can have a chance, even if they make up a smaller player base.

Maybe if the RNG picks a weekend have the time be any hour of the day?

[Splorf22]

I can guarantee that BDA would take an interest in VP if training weren't the deciding factor in the zone. This might mean that TMO would have to defend VP immediately upon a server repop instead of leaving VP until the end after they competed for other targets.

Other guilds would then have a better shot at taking targets. Just a thought.

Yeah I think enforcing train rules in VP is critical to spreading out the guilds. VP makes great sense for BDA because even if you 'lose' you still get a dragon or two and items that most of your guild doesn't have. Meanwhile all the normal targets are open to second tier guilds.

Morloth I personally wouldn't mind tokens. I am like Orruar, its fun to try and beat raid encounters with the smallest number of people, rather than trying to steamroll encounters as fast as possible with a larger force. Different strokes for different folks. However, I don't think it'll get implemented here; its just not classic.

[Rogean]

God damn this thread is up to 17 pages already. I'm still back on Page 6, so gonna start replying to shit so I don't lose track of my thoughts.

Everything repops, period. Those annoying see invis wurms/illis shamans in the jail. Epic mobs. Everything. Give like a 30 minute warning, and then teleport all players in zone to the zone succor point and respawn everything across all zones.

I'd like to expand on this. An abusable scenario would be that if there's any warning to the repop, people will merely camp out at a desired spot in preparation, and coordinate to log in at the same time to lay claim. This was possible in the current situation anyways every time we announce a patch though, so is it a moot point?

Also to be discussed is camp claims.. I forsee an increase in petitions because a repop is announced while someone is camping a long spawn (Hadden for example), only to get ported to the zone in when it repops and another player beats them back, doesn't see anyone, and kills the mob (or does see someone and kills it anyways). Even if the claim could be proven it's wasting staff time.

I shall continue reading from page 6 now >_>

[Rogean]

Yea we won't be doing any character lockouts btw, that's silly.

[Rogean]

the only problem i see with a full server repop on these random "patch days" would be how it would affect the non-raiding portion of the community. it would be kind of unfair to repop zones where people are xping and disrupt their groups by having the whole zone repop on them. this would lead to many people dying in bad spots and ultimately lots of petitions for GM rezzes. i think the random repops should be kept exclusively to raid mobs that way the entire server doesnt have to grind to a halt because of the raid mobs spawning.

This is how the system was originally designed - only raid mobs. However I'm considering applying it to everything, but if that was the case there would be safeguards put in, such as automatically porting everyone to the zone in, or only if they were in aggro range of a mob that spawned, etc. There are systems that can be designed to prevent that, and trust me I think of all these things whenever considering something like that.. we aren't that narrow minded. :)

[Rogean]

We are discussing the VP No Staff Involvement Rules internally but have not reached a decision yet.

[azeth]

That was a good discussion. /flame on


http://i.imgur.com/UHox4.png

you're better than that.

[Rogean]

We are discussing the VP No Staff Involvement Rules internally but have not reached a decision yet.

And to elaborate, we probably won't make any changes before the changes in the OP get implemented.. and if we only do repops for raid mobs, VP will not be included unless it is an entire server repop as being discussed. Reasoning for this is that this entire change is to benefit the smaller guilds, which I don't see affecting VP in it's current state.

[Rogean]

Is there a way to code it so when the FTE hits a /who is done at the same time.
Just as a way to prevent FTE sniping from taking place.

If Guild A has 40 in zone and going for Trak, Guild B's ranger fires an arrow just as Guild A is about to engage. Guild B gets FTE, but they have no one in zone cept the sad lil ranger. Guild A kills gets loot because they killed the mob, but the FTE log will show they didn't have FTE even though the other guild didn't have a kill force.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=744237#post744237

[Rogean]

Ok and the last 4 or 5 pages here seem to be guild dickwaving so I'll just pass by that.. hey look I'm caught up now.

[Rogean]

Stuff about tokens.

Isn't this exactly what Sleeper is doing? See this: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=728428#post728428

[Autotune]

Ok and the last 4 or 5 pages here seem to be guild dickwaving so I'll just pass by that.. hey look I'm caught up now.

What do you think about grouping the mobs and putting them in tiers (so to speak) and allowing a guild 1 target per group or so many per tier. This way the repops can include VP and allow other guilds into VP.

Just make it so once your guild kills a target in VP you have to leave and put a 24hr timer before the repop'd VP dragons become FFA.

[Slave]

I'm rethinking my Classic position on boss spawn rates. I think such frequent resets could be very positive for the current state of the server even though it's not as Classic as something slightly less so. It would be helpful to reverse some of the damage that concentrating loot in the hands of a few has done. Affirmative Action.

[Tarathiel]

This is how the system was originally designed - only raid mobs. However I'm considering applying it to everything, but if that was the case there would be safeguards put in, such as automatically porting everyone to the zone in, or only if they were in aggro range of a mob that spawned, etc. There are systems that can be designed to prevent that, and trust me I think of all these things whenever considering something like that.. we aren't that narrow minded. :)

i wouldnt go so far as to add in stuff like ports to zone out, sounds like it would be a more of a headache then its worth. if its going to be a full repop then just give enough prior notice for people to get out of harms way and then hold to the 20 minute to reclaim camp rule. i think the better solution would be to keep it to just raid mobs but dont announce it ahead of time. this might not be best case scenario for smaller guilds but it still provides an incentive to keep track of whats dying and "compete."

[Slave]

What do you think about grouping the mobs and putting them in tiers (so to speak) and allowing only 1 guild 1 target per group or so many per tier. This way the repops can include VP and allow other guilds into VP.

Just make it so once your guild kills a target in VP you have to leave and put a 24hr timer before the repop'd VP dragons become FFA.

That seems like nuking a cockroach when all you need is a hammer...

Why don't we see how much the proposed changes actually help the server endgame first before doing something so drastic?

[Rogean]

i wouldnt go so far as to add in stuff like ports to zone out, sounds like it would be a more of a headache then its worth. if its going to be a full repop then just give enough prior notice for people to get out of harms way and then hold to the 20 minute to reclaim camp rule. i think the better solution would be to keep it to just raid mobs but dont announce it ahead of time. this might not be best case scenario for smaller guilds but it still provides an incentive to keep track of whats dying and "compete."

Wouldn't be a headache at all, relatively easy actually to port everyone - unless you're talking about a headache for the players.

The 20 minute reclaim rule still applying was a given; I was saying that regardless of that, you'll still run into a lot of petitions because players will steal mobs anyways (whether intentionally or not).

[Autotune]

That seems like nuking a cockroach when all you need is a hammer...

Why don't we see how much the proposed changes actually help the server endgame first before doing something so drastic?

if the repops are to help the lower guilds like Rogean suggests, the best way is to limit how much TMO can get with a handicap.

TMO still gets mobs, more than what they normally get, they also have half the tracking time as before. So they are definitely gaining more than what they already have.

This will also handicap BDA and allow other guilds to grow as well. There is no down side to what I mentioned that I can tell. Guilds can easily track this themselves and report guilds for punishment. Just make the punishment really harsh for breaking the rules or lawyering them (like forming guilds for targets to bypass which can be checked by IPs/GMs).

[Splorf22]

And to elaborate, we probably won't make any changes before the changes in the OP get implemented.. and if we only do repops for raid mobs, VP will not be included unless it is an entire server repop as being discussed. Reasoning for this is that this entire change is to benefit the smaller guilds, which I don't see affecting VP in it's current state.

Well the way it affects the smaller guilds is that at least BDA and probably TMO would spend some time there, thus giving them time to go after other stuff.

But IMO thats just finetuning, the key is doing simultaneous repops and experimenting a bit. Overall things sound great.

[Eccezan]

if the repops are to help the lower guilds like Rogean suggests, the best way is to limit how much TMO can get with a handicap.

TMO still gets mobs, more than what they normally get, they also have half the tracking time as before. So they are definitely gaining more than what they already have.

This will also handicap BDA and allow other guilds to grow as well. There is no down side to what I mentioned that I can tell. Guilds can easily track this themselves and report guilds for punishment. Just make the punishment is really harsh for breaking the rules or lawyering them (like forming guilds for targets to bypass which can be checked by IPs/GMs).

Basically you want some type GM enforced rotation?

[Rogean]

Well the way it affects the smaller guilds is that at least BDA and probably TMO would spend some time there, thus giving them time to go after other stuff.

That's a negative. TMO will leave it for last, and if BDA even attempts it they will have one person go train them while they continue killing everything else outside. What will really happen is BDA knows this and won't bother with VP, and instead try to get as many other mobs as possible.

[arsenalpow]

That's a negative. TMO will leave it for last, and if BDA even attempts it they will have one person go train them while they continue killing everything else outside. What will really happen is BDA knows this and won't bother with VP, and instead try to get as many other mobs as possible.

exactly, BDA's policy is that we are not raiding VP under the current rule set, yes it's legal to train but it's not how we want to play the game, it's honestly a miserable experience for everyone involved

[Autotune]

Basically you want some type GM enforced rotation?

Rotation? The mobs aren't assigned, any guild can go for whatever target. It's a bag limit.

Bag limit does not equate to rotation.

Also, it's for repops that do not (currently) have an effect on normal mob window timers.

So basically, your statement is entirely incorrect.

Which would help stop this --

That's a negative. TMO will leave it for last, and if BDA even attempts it they will have one person go train them while they continue killing everything else outside. What will really happen is BDA knows this and won't bother with VP, and instead try to get as many other mobs as possible.

--

[Spitty]

What do you think about grouping the mobs and putting them in tiers (so to speak) and allowing a guild 1 target per group or so many per tier. This way the repops can include VP and allow other guilds into VP.

Just make it so once your guild kills a target in VP you have to leave and put a 24hr timer before the repop'd VP dragons become FFA.

You know what's hilarious? This could be instantly implemented by certain guilds getting over their greed/power complex and making some simple agreements to follow when the raid mob changes go live.

You don't need more work out of Rogean to put this in place.

[Splorf22]

That's a negative. TMO will leave it for last, and if BDA even attempts it they will have one person go train them while they continue killing everything else outside. What will really happen is BDA knows this and won't bother with VP, and instead try to get as many other mobs as possible.

Right, that's exactly what would happen with current VP train rules. But if you send Ambrotos in to VP, then BDA will go there for sure and now TMO is faced with a really tough choice between VS, Trak, and Phara Dar. My guess is they'll log two squads of alts at VS and Trak and try and take them down fast and then switch their mains to VP.

Anyway I still think TMO will get most of the targets under simultaneous repops. But the key is smaller guilds will at least have a shot at some stuff. And its more about the experience than the pixels anyway.

[Tarathiel]

unless you're talking about a headache for the players.



i was more thinking from a players perspective but the added load of potential petitions could end up being a burden on the staff as well. either way tho i think the plan is pretty solid and cant wait to see it implemented, the finer details can be worked out along the way.

ps. i kinda like the idea stealin is proposing, group the mobs into tiers and then only allow each guild one kill from each tier. not a rotation at all just a forced sharing policy for repops. leave all other mobs outside of repops fte as normal

[Autotune]

You know what's hilarious? This could be instantly implemented by certain guilds getting over their greed/power complex and making some simple agreements to follow when the raid mob changes go live.

You don't need more work out of Rogean to put this in place.

it's not going to happen on it's own. Staff has a chance before they implement anything to put a brace on it, to help shape the way it grows.

They can take the 10 gallons and dump it on the field in a quick toss or they can manage the water and spread it out more evenly to ensure widespread growth.

It's better to start with a brace and take it off if not needed than to start without a brace and try to correct the mistakes with a band aid.

[Spitty]

it's not going to happen on it's own.


Sad. And true. Mostly sad.

[Nips]

Also wanted to add, I think you should consider giving a warning to the full repop at least 24 hrs in advance. No one is going to want to miss these full repops, no matter what guild they are in, and you are pretty much going to force everyone to be on call 24/7 which seems to go against what you are trying to accomplish and what the playerbase wants.

[Tarathiel]

Also wanted to add, I think you should consider giving a warning to the full repop at least 24 hrs in advance. No one is going to want to miss these full repops, no matter what guild they are in, and you are pretty much going to force everyone to be on call 24/7 which seems to go against what you are trying to accomplish and what the playerbase wants.

24 hours is way too much notice and would encourage poop socking, i think 10-20 minutes tops would be better or none at all. there still needs to be some element of competition between guilds that isnt poop socking or things will get boring quick.

[Autotune]

Also wanted to add, I think you should consider giving a warning to the full repop at least 24 hrs in advance. No one is going to want to miss these full repops, no matter what guild they are in, and you are pretty much going to force everyone to be on call 24/7 which seems to go against what you are trying to accomplish and what the playerbase wants.

The advance warning wouldn't hurt so much if there was a bag limit in place. ;)

[Eccezan]

Also wanted to add, I think you should consider giving a warning to the full repop at least 24 hrs in advance. No one is going to want to miss these full repops, no matter what guild they are in, and you are pretty much going to force everyone to be on call 24/7 which seems to go against what you are trying to accomplish and what the playerbase wants.

Agree, in fact make it a week notice. Maybe there should be a poll up every week so we can vote on it. Afterwards, the gm's can lead the raids and hand out free cookies after the mobs are dead.

(this is a troll)

[Tarathiel]

Agree, in fact make it a week notice. Maybe there should be a poll up every week so we can vote on it. Afterwards, the gm's can lead the raids and hand out free cookies after the mobs are dead.

(this is a troll)

you are obviously unhappy that the prices you set on all your trak bps and epic mq's might be affected by the changes being implemented but please keep the sarcastic banter in its appropriate forum

[Nips]

24 hours is way too much notice and would encourage poop socking, i think 10-20 minutes tops would be better or none at all. there still needs to be some element of competition between guilds that isnt poop socking or things will get boring quick.

How would a 24 hr notice or a 20 min notice make any difference at all on how much poopsocking goes on? The mob would still spawn at the exact time stated, but with at least a bit more warning, ppl wouldn't have to be on call 24/7. Would also give ppl time to strategize and the 24 hrs leading up to the spawns would be interesting.

[Writ3r]

I haven't read through the entire thread so forgive me if the following questions have been answered by Rogean or Nilbog already or if the following comments have already been suggested/made.

1. With the current variances being cut in half, what is the exact time allotment we are looking at now... simply 96 / 2 or is the coded formula slightly different?

2. Will these repops also effect VP considering right now only 1 guild actively raids there or just on typical boss mobs?

3. Within the confines of this new system, being it is a trial is the staff going to be actively involved with onsite activity to see results first hand? (in essence will they be there to "police" or "monitor" actual behavior for possible infractions?)

4. When exactly is this being expected to becoming a reality instead of just an idea? (aka being implemented)

--------

1. I think this is a step in the right direction for sure and applaud that there is finally dialogue between the staff and player base for something to move forward into a trial basis. This should only result in improvement for all parties considering it is being handled step by step rather than a drastic influx all at once.

2. When the staff comes to an agreement and finalizes this transition it would be nice if they made the guild leaders for all guilds considering themselves raid ready to make a public post that would be kind of like signing a document to agreeance of activity. Like for instance the Staff throws out a proposal and the guild leaders have to pledge that yes they intend to compete, their intentions are for X reason, and indeed plan to properly communicate with other guilds/abide by appropriate conduct rules. Any guild leaders that would lack doing this to show that they are aware of the upcoming changes/expectations either gets some sort of cut out or delays it from happening. This would then encourage more internal discussions as well or show who is more willing to cooperate with one another (depending on what types of things were in the proposal/pledge).

3. I for one don't see a huge issue with the items potentially coming into the game, this helps all parties involved and allows for more community growth. The ones bashing the prices being dropped or characters being equipped just make themselves sound greedy or less willing to compete against people of equal gear.

4. I hope with this first step that we can see the growth of the community in such ways that allows for respectable actions. I don't believe this will be too often of a thing considering it is closer to classic this way and again hope that this ends up removing variance. If you look again at the timezone population percentages i am sure it will be overwhelmingly obvious that it is US > any other region. That being said raid mobs on weekends are generally good for all places despite time. Plus when velious is released it won't be a huge issue as there will be more viable targets. Live had it handled, it can be managed here as well.

5. This should result in fun times and hope that it occurs soonish considering lack of new content is making it a little dull to play, i figure with an improved raid scene the population may grow and/or it will bring a sense of newness back to the server at the very least. Plus the "random" aspect of repop is what will help induce the excitement... this allows for practice in mobilization and communication within guilds or just encourages you to play a little more often which i am sure is what the staff is after to ensure you see it.

[Eccezan]

you are obviously unhappy that the prices you set on all your trak bps and epic mq's might be affected by the changes being implemented but please keep the sarcastic banter in its appropriate forum

Not in the slightest actually. I LOVE the fact that there are going to be more mobs to kill. What is annoying is this kind of attitude.

"pretty much going to force everyone to be on call 24/7 which seems to go against what you are trying to accomplish and what the playerbase wants."

Darn, the GM's are forcing people to kill raid mobs for loots and to stay logged in for them. Cry me a river. "What the player base wants" is loot off of mobs without putting in the proper effort to get them. "What the player base wants" seems to be attempts at the same mobs they aren't even willing to organize themselves in a manner that will earn them attempts and eventual loot.

It seems to me that what the player base wants is World of Warcraft. Go play WoW if you want to log in an hour a night and get decked out in the fattest gear. Classic Everquest has never been that way.

When TMO came to the server people told us "oh you guys will never be anything here because IB owns this server...blablabla" We raided the shit out of plane and fear, wiped, noobed it up. TMO break fear yet? Then what? We fucking wanted to kill a dragon, we went and sat our asses in front of Naggy's lair for a day and a half (Only thing we could do to try to compete against the fucking IB kill fest) Naggy spawned after I don't know how many hours of socking that dragon, most of us were AFK. Maybe had 14 there, engaged, killed naggy and found out that IB had leapfrogged over us to tag and get FTE with a fucking 4 or 5 person KS group. They were awarded the loot. Yes, at that point we weren't even real competition for them and yes they just did this for the fuck of it.

This type of shittastic activity pissed us off, and there were plenty of down times, but we fought through it, adapted, kicked, screamed, merged with new friends and have been experiencing some good times for a while now. It is my experience and opinion that this is what classic EQ is. The high end was always a tough game, and if you want to experience it you need to earn it. Period.

Now what I see is people crying to the GM's for a change, instead of doing what it takes to compete, (YES, IT MEANS DOING WHAT IT TAKES TO COMPETE ) they want the server go in a different direction that it hasn't gone in since its inception. Spawn more mobs! Constant respawns! Yay! Loots all around!

To lower level and medium level guilds:

You want to see classic/kunark dragons? Talk to your GM's for Velious! Lower level and medium level guilds attempted/defeated to kunark dragons during Velious. This is classic.

To aspiring high end/hardcore raiders:
You want to see kunark dragons NOW? Do what it takes to form yourselves into a real competitive guild. Yes, merge yourselves with like-minded individuals and make it happen. It is much sweeter than QQ'ing to gm's about changes to the server that they haven't had to make even when competition was 100x stronger than it is now in at high end raiding scene.

(P.S) Please pardon grammer/spelling. Didnt get a chance to proof read. Going home from WORK now. Yes, most TMO are gainfully employed.

[Gwence]

you guys all live for this back and forth drama, begging for raid changes, moaning about variance, mobs, blah blah blah

as much as you want to deny it, it's the only rational explanation for why people continue to log into the server when you think about it

if all this stuff was removed you would all quit within like a month lol


there's about half a dozen other EQ servers presently available that offer pretty much everything 80% of you have been desperately crying for, (Al'Kabor being the best choice, yes shameless plug) yet you remain here complaining about things that have been being discussed since October of 2009.

None of this is new, and there is no solution to it, nothing these guys come up with will change anything, there will be complaints worded differently but with the same underlying meaning.

forced rotation is a solution, aside from that there is no way to fix it. Even releasing Velious is just a short term fix if there are no plans to continue content past it eventually everyone will just catch up and be at the same point.

[Splorf22]

"What the player base wants" is loot off of mobs without putting in the proper effort to get them

Why are you the arbiter of "proper effort"? I commend you for beating TR at their own game in an extremely time-intensive competition, but that doesn't change the fact that the current system isn't classic, and therefore by the definition of this server simply wrong. Classic did not involve hours of tracking and batphoning for every mob. In fact what Rogean has proposed seems extremely close to classic except that simultaneous repops should reset spawn timers.

[Triangle]

Hats off to the GMs, thank you.

[Eccezan]

Why are you the arbiter of "proper effort"? I commend you for beating TR at their own game in an extremely time-intensive competition, but that doesn't change the fact that the current system isn't classic, and therefore by the definition of this server simply wrong. Classic did not involve hours of tracking and batphoning for every mob. In fact what Rogean has proposed seems extremely close to classic except that simultaneous repops should reset spawn timers.

Classic involved salaried / payed GM's monitoring the FTE spam & train fests that DID happen. For such reasons, this server can never truly be 100% classic in that same manner. (Nor would I wish it on the hard working GM's)

[sonicjoose]

Cannot wait to get back to playing and trying out this new raid style content. Thanks STAFF!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ambrotos]

I refuse to be paid 8.50 an hour and live in Cali for the classic experience of being a "Classic Gm"!

[Spitty]

But you get your own cubicle and everything, and I heard Smedley takes the team out for pizza every last Thursday of the month...

[Triangle]

words

Hey look at the bright side. Raid mobs now have the chance to pop during variances or during the simulated patches, so you still have the chance to get woken up at 3am on a worknight to go kill gorenaire while the rest of us newbs and idiots focus on killing them during the simulated patches.

I see this as a win win, as most of us are just not interested in being on call for a 2nd job that pays in pixels, and those that are interested in such a thing can keep on doing what they do. You can continue to look at yourself as a someone who had to trudge through the trenches to get what you have, but I think you are disillusioned..

[Writ3r]

Eccezan try not to comment about what happened before your time on here either as you obviously have no clue.

[Spitty]

Agreed. I've put in plenty of work getting my character to 60, properly equipped and ready with a resist kit.

I'll gladly put in the hours it takes to break a raid zone and kill a mob a dozen times for my chance at a single piece of loot, but sitting around refreshing track on someone else's character for hours in addition is absolute, utter bullshit.

[Tarathiel]

I refuse to be paid 8.50 an hour and live in Cali for the classic experience of being a "Classic Gm"!

lol

[Triangle]

I refuse to be paid 8.50 an hour and live in Cali for the classic experience of being a "Classic Gm"!

Cali is nice. But 8.50 an hour is not. It is especially not nice in Cali.

[Autotune]

Not in the slightest actually. I LOVE the fact that there are going to be more mobs to kill. What is annoying is this kind of attitude.

"pretty much going to force everyone to be on call 24/7 which seems to go against what you are trying to accomplish and what the playerbase wants."

Darn, the GM's are forcing people to kill raid mobs for loots and to stay logged in for them. Cry me a river. "What the player base wants" is loot off of mobs without putting in the proper effort to get them. "What the player base wants" seems to be attempts at the same mobs they aren't even willing to organize themselves in a manner that will earn them attempts and eventual loot.

It seems to me that what the player base wants is World of Warcraft. Go play WoW if you want to log in an hour a night and get decked out in the fattest gear. Classic Everquest has never been that way.

When TMO came to the server people told us "oh you guys will never be anything here because IB owns this server...blablabla" We raided the shit out of plane and fear, wiped, noobed it up. TMO break fear yet? Then what? We fucking wanted to kill a dragon, we went and sat our asses in front of Naggy's lair for a day and a half (Only thing we could do to try to compete against the fucking IB kill fest) Naggy spawned after I don't know how many hours of socking that dragon, most of us were AFK. Maybe had 14 there, engaged, killed naggy and found out that IB had leapfrogged over us to tag and get FTE with a fucking 4 or 5 person KS group. They were awarded the loot. Yes, at that point we weren't even real competition for them and yes they just did this for the fuck of it.

This type of shittastic activity pissed us off, and there were plenty of down times, but we fought through it, adapted, kicked, screamed, merged with new friends and have been experiencing some good times for a while now. It is my experience and opinion that this is what classic EQ is. The high end was always a tough game, and if you want to experience it you need to earn it. Period.

Now what I see is people crying to the GM's for a change, instead of doing what it takes to compete, (YES, IT MEANS DOING WHAT IT TAKES TO COMPETE ) they want the server go in a different direction that it hasn't gone in since its inception. Spawn more mobs! Constant respawns! Yay! Loots all around!

To lower level and medium level guilds:

You want to see classic/kunark dragons? Talk to your GM's for Velious! Lower level and medium level guilds attempted/defeated to kunark dragons during Velious. This is classic.

To aspiring high end/hardcore raiders:
You want to see kunark dragons NOW? Do what it takes to form yourselves into a real competitive guild. Yes, merge yourselves with like-minded individuals and make it happen. It is much sweeter than QQ'ing to gm's about changes to the server that they haven't had to make even when competition was 100x stronger than it is now in at high end raiding scene.

(P.S) Please pardon grammer/spelling. Didnt get a chance to proof read. Going home from WORK now. Yes, most TMO are gainfully employed.

TMO worked for where they are and has had a pretty good, uneventful, easy last few months. Staff decide to make things easier for other guilds and you get upset?

Your (well your trackers, you don't track very often at all) work load is about to be cut in half. Your guild is about to get an overall increase in raid loot per week, a decent increase.

Yet, all you can think of is "omg other guilds are now getting it easy"

The server has become stagnant, every person that is capable of end-game raid guild style game play has either left or joined TMO (granted there might be 1 or 2 people left in the other guilds).

I bet if you ask any TMO tracker (real tracker) what they think about all this and I bet you will find overwhelming support just for the reduced window sizes alone.

Sometimes people need to really learn to take the good with the bad and when there is no bad... to shut the fuck up while grown folks is talkin.

[Rogean]

Can you guys stop shitting up the thread?

thx

[Autotune]

Cali is nice. But 8.50 an hour is not. It is especially not nice in Cali.

imagine all the gas you could buy with that 13 years ago

[Alarti0001]

And to elaborate, we probably won't make any changes before the changes in the OP get implemented.. and if we only do repops for raid mobs, VP will not be included unless it is an entire server repop as being discussed. Reasoning for this is that this entire change is to benefit the smaller guilds, which I don't see affecting VP in it's current state.

If you are gonna repop the raid mobs include VP. Or else you are just locking of us out of the loot we need most which also decreases the encounters the rest of the server will see

[Writ3r]

Alarti don't troll in this thread dude, if that were the case you wouldn't be saving VP for last trying to take ALL the other mobs as it is already when you don't really need them. VP doesn't need to be included regardless because other guilds will still see mobs more frequently this way. Whether they get them or not, who knows... but atleast there is a greater chance. Spiking VP only benefits one guild much like this current system, so no real need for it.

[Rogean]

If you are gonna repop the raid mobs include VP. Or else you are just locking of us out of the loot we need most which also decreases the encounters the rest of the server will see

Sounds like an ultimatum.

I don't like ultimatums.

[Triangle]

Alarti:If you are gonna repop the raid mobs include VP. Or else you are just locking of us out of the loot we need most which also decreases the encounters the rest of the server will see

Writ3r has it right... pretty disingenuous to suggest that you would be going after VP first when everyone is aware that you will save VP mobs for last because this is what you have done in the past. VP mobs repopping will have an insignificant effect on the encounters the rest of the server will see.

[Autotune]

Sounds like an ultimatum.

I don't like ultimatums.

no one likes 'ol tomatoes

[Splorf22]

Its amazing but I'm agreeing with almost everything Stealin writes in this thread. The apocalypse must be close.

[Nietche]

It seems to me that what the player base wants is World of Warcraft. Go play WoW if you want to log in an hour a night and get decked out in the fattest gear. Classic Everquest has never been that way.

The high end was always a tough game, and if you want to experience it you need to earn it. Period.

The Op has some interesting aspects, but we should be reminded why most of us left WoW to come back to p99.

1. It's exceedingly hard.

2. It's actually a challenge.

3. Pixels are much more appreciated when it is HARD to get.

I realize that the low end guilds want a shot at the high end game in p99, but realize, too, that it may be end up being a pyrrhic effect (i.e., the "cost" is exceedingly high, even with "victory").

I think the p99 devs/GMS have done an oustanding job at trying to keep p99 as classic as possible, but if the rate of pixel acquisition is increased overly much due to weekly respawns with negligible effect upon regular spawn timers, many of you might find that there is no real difference between games like WoW and the "new p99." Whereas the server may see an increased population over the course of a couple of months, boredom will quickly set in when everyone has "phat lewt" and the economy is in the ditch--and the population will eventually deteriorate.

On the other hand, if Velious is imminent (I mean 2 months or so out), then none of my concerns are particularly relevant, as long as these changes are not implemented along with the Velious expansion.

[Fountree]

I'm for these new changes as long as they're fair, objective, and classic. Anything that skews advantage to one guild or another is bullshit.

[Writ3r]

I realize that the low end guilds want a shot at the high end game in p99, but realize, too, that it may be end up being a pyrrhic effect (i.e., the "cost" is exceedingly high, even with "victory").

I think the p99 devs/GMS have done an oustanding job at trying to keep p99 as classic as possible, but if the rate of pixel acquisition is increased overly much due to weekly respawns with negligible effect upon regular spawn timers, many of you might find that there is no real difference between games like WoW and the "new p99." Whereas the server may see an increased population over the course of a couple of months, boredom will quickly set in when everyone has "phat lewt" and the economy is in the ditch--and the population will eventually deteriorate.


These changes are more classic than what it is now, i don't see where this fallacy is coming from about the worry of loot outside of personal greed. People will be having more fun actually getting to see/experience encounters with this new format for there to develop very much boredom as there will always be the opportunity for the random chance nightly even outside of normal windows. There will be a huge difference still between this EQ emulation and WoW considering again this is going more towards what EQ actually was.

I still can't grasp how you can say boredom will quickly set in either when the rest of the guilds have that same thought of "oh the current guild who is overflowing with success due to the current non-classic system should get bored with certain targets". However that has never been the case as there is always an excuse/reason to continue on with older content/loot. Don't use excuses of market value or boredom especially when you as of now are involved in the monopoly of such aspects, it just sounds like whiny complaints rather than constructive criticism.

The market on items naturally goes down as time goes on anyways and without new content, oh well. Everyone who plays and puts time in deserves a chance at the experience of target killing and acquisition of loots on DROP not just for tailored high prices by a particular set of individuals. Besides competition will now be defined more accurately with these types of new classic policies. So i'm sure people will now atleast get an opportunity to decide on what it takes to win and how they want to go about winning regardless of the cost. Again, atleast now they get a proper chance at finding out what the costs may be.

[Zeelot]

It's true that repopping VP has little effect on the rest of the server unless the ruleset is changed of course. There's a lot of complications with the aggro, ae's and pathing in VP though that can cause drama if there are going to be rules in there.

I think that re-popping everything rather than just raid mobs is a more interesting concept though, thinking about velious. There are a lot of non-raid NPCs on timers as well that people like to race for on repops. Right now we have Hadden, Tranix, and epic NPCs and in velious we will have Lodizal, Vindicator, etc.

I definitely think it would be more fun to have everything repop so that groups can race for those types of targets as well.

[Clark]

Once Velious and Luclin are out there will be mountains of content. If my dream of Luclin comes true. Never say never. Something needs to be done at the current time though. It's good to see a serious look into changing raiding some since the majority of folks aren't being civil and greed is rampant. Thank you Rogean.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

It's true that repopping VP has little effect on the rest of the server unless the ruleset is changed of course. There's a lot of complications with the aggro, ae's and pathing in VP though that can cause drama if there are going to be rules in there.

I think that re-popping everything rather than just raid mobs is a more interesting concept though, thinking about velious. There are a lot of non-raid NPCs on timers as well that people like to race for on repops. Right now we have Hadden, Tranix, and epic NPCs and in velious we will have Lodizal, Vindicator, etc.

I definitely think it would be more fun to have everything repop so that groups can race for those types of targets as well.

Agreed, also, if the trash is already down...lol free ntov clear? :3 It's improbable, but not impossible.

[MooseTX82]

Agreed, also, if the trash is already down...lol free ntov clear? :3 It's improbable, but not impossible.

tell Akethedar to stay out of shout in ToV!

[Wrei]

Not in the slightest actually. I LOVE the fact that there are going to be more mobs to kill. What is annoying is this kind of attitude.

"pretty much going to force everyone to be on call 24/7 which seems to go against what you are trying to accomplish and what the playerbase wants."

Darn, the GM's are forcing people to kill raid mobs for loots and to stay logged in for them. Cry me a river. "What the player base wants" is loot off of mobs without putting in the proper effort to get them. "What the player base wants" seems to be attempts at the same mobs they aren't even willing to organize themselves in a manner that will earn them attempts and eventual loot.

It seems to me that what the player base wants is World of Warcraft. Go play WoW if you want to log in an hour a night and get decked out in the fattest gear. Classic Everquest has never been that way.

When TMO came to the server people told us "oh you guys will never be anything here because IB owns this server...blablabla" We raided the shit out of plane and fear, wiped, noobed it up. TMO break fear yet? Then what? We fucking wanted to kill a dragon, we went and sat our asses in front of Naggy's lair for a day and a half (Only thing we could do to try to compete against the fucking IB kill fest) Naggy spawned after I don't know how many hours of socking that dragon, most of us were AFK. Maybe had 14 there, engaged, killed naggy and found out that IB had leapfrogged over us to tag and get FTE with a fucking 4 or 5 person KS group. They were awarded the loot. Yes, at that point we weren't even real competition for them and yes they just did this for the fuck of it.

This type of shittastic activity pissed us off, and there were plenty of down times, but we fought through it, adapted, kicked, screamed, merged with new friends and have been experiencing some good times for a while now. It is my experience and opinion that this is what classic EQ is. The high end was always a tough game, and if you want to experience it you need to earn it. Period.

Now what I see is people crying to the GM's for a change, instead of doing what it takes to compete, (YES, IT MEANS DOING WHAT IT TAKES TO COMPETE ) they want the server go in a different direction that it hasn't gone in since its inception. Spawn more mobs! Constant respawns! Yay! Loots all around!

To lower level and medium level guilds:

You want to see classic/kunark dragons? Talk to your GM's for Velious! Lower level and medium level guilds attempted/defeated to kunark dragons during Velious. This is classic.

To aspiring high end/hardcore raiders:
You want to see kunark dragons NOW? Do what it takes to form yourselves into a real competitive guild. Yes, merge yourselves with like-minded individuals and make it happen. It is much sweeter than QQ'ing to gm's about changes to the server that they haven't had to make even when competition was 100x stronger than it is now in at high end raiding scene.

(P.S) Please pardon grammer/spelling. Didn't get a chance to proof read. Going home from WORK now. Yes, most TMO are gainfully employed.

You know I want to keep this thread constructive but seriously dude, your whole argument is we got shafted early on so why can't we keep shafting when it's our turn? If your guild actually ever had the type of organization to lock down raid bosses with a tight crew of people that actually knew wtf they're doing then I could see your point. What have you done aside from massing a horde of zerg for the poopsock wars which resulted in many guilds like IB from vanishing? What is this "skill" you speak of? If having 300+people in the roster and having 100+ active member is the "skill" you're referring to then I don't know what to tell you.

These changes will allow not only the casual guilds from experiencing content, they'll actually give you guys a challenge (something it seems you're clearly not up for). This is not just for the "casual guys" you're dismissing, this is a MAJOR opportunity for any serious guild to clean up almost twice the loot you're currently amassing. If only the old IB was still around, we'd be jumping up and down all over this because we know we would have locked a good chunk of these spawns (and no we wouldn't have had to invite everyone and their moms).

So stop being such a downer, and think of it in a positive light. This should benefit the server as a whole, and if TMO is such a premier raiding guild then it's time to prove it ;)

[Paumad]

I like it. Looking forward to more people attempting more targets and more guilds running after the same targets.

Although, as it has already been mentioned, I think the server respawns should reset the windows, as they always have. It would lead to a little too many possible bosses / week in my opinion compared to what classic would offer. Also, that period after server respawns where nothing is in window is pretty nice. Noone has to track and everyone pretty much knows every bosses ToD's. As a side effect, it would make it easier on any tracker, and on the guilds that don't want to involve themselves in a lot of tracking, letting them pick a target to look after (knowing when the window will open).

I am not a big fan of the US primetime only respawns though; I'd prefer them to be completly random. That said, I am biaised and not based in the US. And sadly, we are a minority. I'm just gonna say it again, for all the non-US players : QQ.

[Loly Taa]

This is a continuation from the other thread ( http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86005 ).

Here is what nilbog and I are currently planning/designing/brainstorming:

We will be cutting the variance in half on the existing raid spawns.

We will be implementing an FTE notice of some sort, whether this is an emote or some type of message.

We will be implementing a simulated patch day respawn. Here is how it will work.

The server will pick one day of each week (Random 1 to 7, Sunday through Saturday). It will then pick a random time. I will not disclose the range of the possible times, but it will only include afternoon and evening hours, so as to give the best chance for the most people to benefit from it.

A serverwide message will go off indicating that the simulated patch day respawn has or will be taking effect shortly. All raid mobs will (either immediately, delayed, or spanned, tbd) respawn.

These respawns will NOT affect the normal respawn times of the mob. For example. If Talendor was killed on Monday, and on death the server determined he would spawn again on Sunday. A simulated patch day occurs on Thursday, his death on Thursday will not reset his scheduled respawn time on Sunday.
Exception: If the mob's spawn time is scheduled to occur within (To be determined, probably either 6 or 12 hours) of the simulated patch day respawn, it will calculate a new spawn time for the mob as it would had he been killed normally, when he dies from the simulated respawn.

Discuss, and know that this system is not final, now or even when it goes live. We will evaluate how it plays out.

I really like this, thank you!

[Alarti0001]

Sounds like an ultimatum.

I don't like ultimatums.

It's not, it's a suggestion for a better idea. Don't be paranoid.
It's a simple fact that if you don't repop VP TMO will actually go after encounters other people are after, as demonstrated last two repops, where we left some targets alone cause we wanted to get to the long VP raids instead of wasting more time on other targets.

If you repop the server and no VP it just seems like you are targeting TMO. Not that you are but its kinda unfair to the top guild who earned their way to where they are.

[El B]

Once this is all figured out and put in place ill be donating $19.99

[Tarathiel]

sooo what we are left with after sorting through all the bs is.. do we want full repops or just raid mobs? should they be at random times or during primetime?? stay on topic nugga's

[Versus]

That whole tier thing that Stealin is suggesting....I'll quit.

[Tarathiel]

That whole tier thing that Stealin is suggesting....I'll quit.

why? it would only affect mobs on the respawn, you would still be free to lock down all normally spawning raid mobs

[heartbrand]

Do this for red also thanks!

[nilbog]

I am glad to see this is well-received. I've wanted changes for months, and this seems to be a direction with which most players are happy.

Nothing is set in stone; if there are obvious problems, we will work with the community to rectify them.

[nilbog]

Try and keep guild vs. guild discussions out of this thread.

Thanks.

[Bubbles]

As one of the few dinosaurs still around who's been with the server since beta.. I've been in the middle of IB/Trans... Fishbait vs. the world.. DA/IB.. Fusion/IB, Ascension/IB DAVD/IB, DAVD/TransatDarktheon, TRVD/The.Masses.Organized, and every flippin' butting-heads raiding situation since the dawn of p99. I've pretty much seen all the ebbs and flows.

I really applaud the fact that nilbog and rogean are not only still voluntarily running the server, but caring enough to tweak and revisit the end game raiding climate on this server. Seriously, kudos. It's a thankless task.

Only have a couple real thoughts here.

1. ) for the first time ever i randomly muttered 'Loly Taa' out loud, said 'oh!', and laughed. Jesus i'm two years behind on that joke.

2. ) I'm not surprised at all i agree with most anything Stealin says.. I am surprised that in the last week i'm starting to agree with most of what Orruar says. Consider me knocked over with a feather.

3. ) Alarti would come off as 80% less pompus and smug if he just changed his avatar.

4. ) If people employed the same skills that got them thru pre-school recess at the sand box, they could totally make VP a civil place. Seriously, the GMs have literally said 'its all up to you guys, go nuts'.. take it as an invitation to follow the golden rule and SHARE one of the coolest zones in classic EQ.. you know.. SHARE it on a server that someone was kind enough to SHARE with you.. for free. /shrug. Up to ya'll..

And don't give me that 'well we'd be willing but THEY..." bs.. No one ever reaches the cookie jar without being the bigger man and taking that step to trust in someone else and have faith there's a human being who has the same love of EQ as you do.. Hell to digress even further, whats the real point of guild tags in the first place? We may be the last 500ish people left standing that love this niche game that died out years ago. Whats the real point in dividing into warring factions and turning paradise hotel into lord of the flies? We can't all be that anti-social, can we? I wish a lot of you were here from the start, when everyone was racing for cracked staffs and backpacks and teaming up to make jewelry and smithed armor and crack into najena and cazic thule and guk and the like. Guilds kinda sprung up along the way, but most of the friendships crossed rival colors anyways. Hell so much or IB1.0 was old Transcendence I never understood how they never fully merged and ended up deciding to hate each other, like adam and eve in the garden, dooming us to the hell we are currently in as a server.

5. ) Finally... something i've never been good at doing on these boards (to my own chagrin) : Thank you Nilbog and Rogean for devoting extraordinary time and resources to a niche crowd in an ancient game and being the first in emu to really break through and bring us back in a time capsule to where we were a dozen years ago. We'll never be as naive and perky and overwhelmed at awed by Classic-Era EQ, but you managed to immerse us into an amazingly realistic emulated copy of at least the background setting of our youth. The biggest problem, of course, is we've changed as people and squander much of this gift bestowed on us with petty grievances and obssessions that will forever taint any chance we have of exploring norrath anew. You've taken a shot-in-the dark project and improved it into an amazing experience to be treasured. Sadly, no amount of coding on your end will ever improve your playerbase and make us tolerable in even the smallest doses. For that i apologize. You are saints for putting up with us.

-Bubs.

[Bubbles]

Well Loly, Zeelot may be the official voice of TMO but Eccezan, Alarti, and Fountree are making you guys look really bad. Pretty much everything they have said in this thread boils down to "We had to track/batphone for our pixels, and we don't want you to get any unless you do too". As Stealin said, the new system is fucking great for TMO. You guys are going to get 50% or more loot than you do now. If your goal is more pixels and more raiding and less tracking, you should be overjoyed. If your goal is to deny the rest of the server anything, you should be unhappy. The most vocal TMO posters in this thread and the last one have been distinctly unhappy. Draw your own conclusions.

Missed this while i was typing out the great american novel. I think splorf just hit the nail on the head. If there is one life lesson learned from EQ, it's reverse-coveting... : Hey dere.. mah shiny tings not as fun iff udders also git dere shiny tings dat look like mah shiny tings... (insert troll bottom-scratch for effect).

[Writ3r]

I am glad to see this is well-received. I've wanted changes for months, and this seems to be a direction with which most players are happy.

Nothing is set in stone; if there are obvious problems, we will work with the community to rectify them.

Love to see this, just wish these changes that have been lingering for months were a tad sooner however you can never rush a good thing. This should also go to all those people complaining about this initial tweak. Rogean himself said this is like a trial run and again Nilbog mentions if it seems illegitimate then it will get tweaked again. Right now this model seems to serve best in my opinion to help make up for the lack of spawns that we realistically should've been getting within a classic context. If it is then changed to a more classic model a month or few down the road after this gets put in, that works as well. Just need to remember things can change, i just hope they continue to change for the better and remain in the direction of the masses for a long period of time rather than the extended monopoly like structure we have had.

Also, splorf's point makes perfect sense. As i stated in previous posts as well, with such horrific complaints from a select few it just sounds like whining towards supporting their greed rather than joy for the potential to improve the server as a whole. (which they are seeming to forget includes them still)

[YendorLootmonkey]

We will be implementing an FTE notice of some sort, whether this is an emote or some type of message.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gACaVRwLImw/T0FRCTWK3DI/AAAAAAAAAJM/0Fl0Lqbb4Zo/s1600/Fuck+Yeah.jpg

[Ambrotos]

To back up what Nilbog and Rogean have said, keep the guild attacks out of here. You all have had your fun and this is the line drawn in the sand now. Please keep it on topic.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Is there a way to code it so when the FTE hits a /who is done at the same time.
Just as a way to prevent FTE sniping from taking place.

The FTE shout itself prevents FTE sniping by giving real-time information to the raid leaders as to whether continue engage or not, unlike now where no one can really tell who had FTE, so you send in your raid anyway because you can't afford to hesitate, then require the GMs to sort it out later.

Current state:

Chest tells the guild, 'Get ready to engage Trak! Why aren't you guys buffed yet?'
Yendor tells the guild, 'rez pls'
Anthrax tells the guild, 'What do you mean none of our fking tanks have a mallet?'
Sadad tells the guild, 'TMO only has 4 in zone, but they've started logging in... we need to engage now.'
Chest tells the guild, 'CHARGE!'

... hours later ...

Ambrotos says, 'Upon review of the encounter logs, Xanthias from TMO got first engage... I will be transferring the two Donal's and 4 teeth to them.'
Yendor says, 'WTF they only had 4 in zone!'
Chest says, 'Shut up Yendor, you were at your bind point, you weren't even there.'

With the FTE shout:

Chest tells the guild, 'Get ready to engage Trak! Why aren't you guys buffed yet?'
Yendor tells the guild, 'rez pls'
Anthrax tells the guild, 'What do you mean none of our fking tanks have a mallet?'
Sadad tells the guild, 'TMO only has 4 in zone, but they've started logging in... we need to engage now.'
Chest tells the guild, 'CHARGE!'
Yendor tells the guild, 'rez pls'
Trakanon shouts, 'XANTHIAS OF THE MYSTICAL ORDER HAS CHALLENGED ME!'
Chest tells the guild, 'Fall back, we don't have FTE... how many TMO in zone?'
Anthrax tells the guild, 'Just 6'
Chest tells the guild, 'Okay, letting their puller die... tag it when it goes back into seek mode.'
Yendor tells the guild, 'rez meeee'
Trakanon shouts, 'MY FOES HAVE BEEN DEFEATED... I EAGERLY AWAIT NEW OPPONENTS!'
Trakanon shouts, 'CHEST OF BREGAN D'AERTH HAS CHALLENGED ME!'
Chest tells the guild, 'ENGAGE!'

Much more clear... no more needing GMs to resolve stuff after the fact.

[doraf]

Not in the slightest actually. I LOVE the fact that there are going to be more mobs to kill. What is annoying is this kind of attitude.

"pretty much going to force everyone to be on call 24/7 which seems to go against what you are trying to accomplish and what the playerbase wants."

Darn, the GM's are forcing people to kill raid mobs for loots and to stay logged in for them. Cry me a river. "What the player base wants" is loot off of mobs without putting in the proper effort to get them. "What the player base wants" seems to be attempts at the same mobs they aren't even willing to organize themselves in a manner that will earn them attempts and eventual loot.

It seems to me that what the player base wants is World of Warcraft. Go play WoW if you want to log in an hour a night and get decked out in the fattest gear. Classic Everquest has never been that way.

When TMO came to the server people told us "oh you guys will never be anything here because IB owns this server...blablabla" We raided the shit out of plane and fear, wiped, noobed it up. TMO break fear yet? Then what? We fucking wanted to kill a dragon, we went and sat our asses in front of Naggy's lair for a day and a half (Only thing we could do to try to compete against the fucking IB kill fest) Naggy spawned after I don't know how many hours of socking that dragon, most of us were AFK. Maybe had 14 there, engaged, killed naggy and found out that IB had leapfrogged over us to tag and get FTE with a fucking 4 or 5 person KS group. They were awarded the loot. Yes, at that point we weren't even real competition for them and yes they just did this for the fuck of it.

This type of shittastic activity pissed us off, and there were plenty of down times, but we fought through it, adapted, kicked, screamed, merged with new friends and have been experiencing some good times for a while now. It is my experience and opinion that this is what classic EQ is. The high end was always a tough game, and if you want to experience it you need to earn it. Period.

Now what I see is people crying to the GM's for a change, instead of doing what it takes to compete, (YES, IT MEANS DOING WHAT IT TAKES TO COMPETE ) they want the server go in a different direction that it hasn't gone in since its inception. Spawn more mobs! Constant respawns! Yay! Loots all around!

To lower level and medium level guilds:

You want to see classic/kunark dragons? Talk to your GM's for Velious! Lower level and medium level guilds attempted/defeated to kunark dragons during Velious. This is classic.

To aspiring high end/hardcore raiders:
You want to see kunark dragons NOW? Do what it takes to form yourselves into a real competitive guild. Yes, merge yourselves with like-minded individuals and make it happen. It is much sweeter than QQ'ing to gm's about changes to the server that they haven't had to make even when competition was 100x stronger than it is now in at high end raiding scene.

(P.S) Please pardon grammer/spelling. Didnt get a chance to proof read. Going home from WORK now. Yes, most TMO are gainfully employed.

+1
Eccezan's right.

[Tarathiel]

yendor just made me smile for the first time all day

[Writ3r]

So nilbog, rogean, and ambro... any word on an estimated timeframe when the brainstorming will finalize and implementation will take place?

[Slave]

Next patch. Patches come when they come. Don't push it, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!

[Writ3r]

Not pushing, just curious how many other things are being discussed within the details or aside from these particular topics prior to implementation (especially after this thread). I already said you can't rush a good thing.

[Acillatem]

I don't think it's a good idea to shrink the drop table for the repop mobs, as these are the mobs most likely to be gotten by up and coming guilds or casual guilds. To have their efforts diminished kinda defeats the purpose of "opening up the raid scene" via some of the proposed changes.

Bi-weekly instead of weekly, with server repops resetting spawn timers brings P99 more in line with Classic. Halving the spawn variance will not effect the "number" of spawns, it will only diminish the tracking needed which might encourage smaller guilds to keep tabs on a couple of mobs. FTE shout is a plus. All in all I think the proposed changes are good and will be a boost for all guilds regardless of playstyle.

[baramur]

So just to be curious if it is totally random can the server simulate a patch on Saturday then simulate a patch once again on sunday? Just curious if your gonna have a min/max for simulated patches. Like atleast 3 days in between simulation and no more then 10 days between or technically it could be back to back or 13 days apart correct?

All and all nice work, and i must say lately the raid scene seems to have improved a little anyways. I have noticed lower guilds actually being given some time to engage mobs before the bigger guilds come in and steam roll them over, so thanks to you big guilds for that.

[Reptak]

Having sifted through most of this thread, I think it sounds pretty terrific. I think it was suggested (stealin?) breaking the patch mobs into tiers and only allowing guilds a certain amount per tier. I would be absolutely for this if the patch does NOT reset the "regular" mobs, and against it if it does. I think the former would basically provide a little added content, allow ALL guilds to participate in the "patch days", but spread it out more fairly. At the same time the "regular" mobs would be business as usual (for better or worse).

Obviously being in TMO I look out for my own, but I think this would be pretty good for the server in general. While perhaps a bit artificial, and not classic, it may be needed for the health of the community and to give more people a chance to experience the content they have been looking forward to. I don't see how anyone could complain about this proposed system as basically everyone would have a chance at more mobs than they would have otherwise.

[baramur]

I don't think you will see GM's enforce a tier system, though i agree tier system on the "patch day" would pretty much accomplish everything the medium/smaller guilds are asking for. I agree with Reptak "patch day" tier, and regular spawn open season with all the fun that goes along with racing, after all the "patch day" spawns are bonuses. The thing to remember is if the guilds on server just work together they could implement any system they wanted on "patch days", all of us share a love for classic or we wouldnt be here, why don't we come together on this?

[YendorLootmonkey]

The thing to remember is if the guilds on server just work together they could implement any system they wanted on "patch days", all of us share a love for classic or we wouldnt be here, why don't we come together on this?

There's a Raid Guild sub-forum just for this purpose... any guildleaders wanna roger up for trying to work something out?

[Alarti0001]

Missed this while i was typing out the great american novel. I think splorf just hit the nail on the head. If there is one life lesson learned from EQ, it's reverse-coveting... : Hey dere.. mah shiny tings not as fun iff udders also git dere shiny tings dat look like mah shiny tings... (insert troll bottom-scratch for effect).

unfortunately splorf must not be able to read because I have been for server repops since it was first suggested

[Fromage]

unfortunately splorf must not be able to read because I have been for server repops since it was first suggested

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=673839&postcount=228 ?

[Ravager]

I can guarantee that BDA would take an interest in VP if training weren't the deciding factor in the zone. This might mean that TMO would have to defend VP immediately upon a server repop instead of leaving VP until the end after they competed for other targets.

Other guilds would then have a better shot at taking targets. Just a thought.

I've been keyed for VP since April and I won't go in the zone because I don't want to spend 8 hours of my day getting trained.

[Maze513]

GMs threw their hands up on VP laws, I wouldnt expect them to care now with everything else falling apart and Velious in the wings

[cyryllis]

VP laws, or lack of laws regarding training, is 100% classic. I am sorry that you do not wish to experience classic VP as it was originally intended. It is supposed to be an extremely dangerous zone for only the bravest adventurers and was only designed to be a zone that very few people per server got to experience.

Sometimes you just need to grit your teeth, wipe the mud off your face, and step back up to the plate. Go in with no dragons up and practice training, practice moving see invis wurms and dropping AE/fear wurms in strategic locations. Work on using the zone to your advantage like everyone before you was forced to do. We have set up teams to practice such things and that (besides our lightning fast mobilization times, solid communication skills, and general organization) has allowed us to reign over VP.

Don't like it? Do something about other than whine about how its not fair and how you need a special rule set for yourselves.

[Ravager]

VP laws, or lack of laws regarding training, is 100% classic. I am sorry that you do not wish to experience classic VP as it was originally intended. It is supposed to be an extremely dangerous zone for only the bravest adventurers and was only designed to be a zone that very few people per server got to experience.

Sometimes you just need to grit your teeth, wipe the mud off your face, and step back up to the plate. Go in with no dragons up and practice training, practice moving see invis wurms and dropping AE/fear wurms in strategic locations. Work on using the zone to your advantage like everyone before you was forced to do. We have set up teams to practice such things and that (besides our lightning fast mobilization times, solid communication skills, and general organization) has allowed us to reign over VP.

Don't like it? Do something about other than whine about how its not fair and how you need a special rule set for yourselves.

The argument is that IF the VP rules were changed, THEN more mobs would be open for competition on the repop days. IF the rules stay the same, THEN it will be harder for other guilds to get repop mobs because TMO wouldn't have to go after VP mobs first. That's all that's being said. No one is crying. Good for you if you think spending hours on end training or getting trained is fun. Those of us who don't, won't go in, so TMO is free to leave VP up and go after other raid mobs. Since the majority of us don't want to waste hours on end training or getting trained (and that includes all of those who joined TMO to see VP without having to fight TMO for it), we probably don't need a lesson on how to win in VP with the current rules.

In the end it's about the health of the server. If folks can't see end game content, they're not going to hang around. So any new rules to promote server health should be considered, classic or not. Whether you like it or not, this is not a classic server and can never be. The circumstances on this server are far different than they were on classic. There's way more max level characters, everyone knows all the strategies for mobs and all the little tricks to playing each class. Saying the rules should be the same on here as on classic is like saying that today's laws should be the same as the laws of the old west. At any rate, the OP is a very big step in the right direction.

[Xadion]

oh my lord here we go with, health of the server again...its like 2008 all over again.


the people that are here are here...the only long term solution is velious , giving everyone the pixels for free is not the solution

[Lazortag]

oh my lord here we go with, health of the server again...its like 2008 all over again.


the people that are here are here...the only long term solution is velious , giving everyone the pixels for free is not the solution

Who's getting pixels for free? When there's a full repop you still have to earn what you kill. The only difference is that there's some meritocracy because you actually have to mobilize, and not just rely on your competition refusing to track through absurdly long windows. The former is classic, the latter is not.

[Ravager]

Oh my lord, here we go with, giving everyone the pixels for free is not the solution give us Velious and all the problems will be solved. No one's asking for free pixels, just an even playing field.

[Xadion]

I was mostly reffering to the "Change VP" thing- aka change it so everyone can get it with out trying. GM free VP is very much classic.

As for less variance and random "patch days" thats all great, first thing I told my guild was "I dont think we will be able to lock everything down 100% with all the mobs that will be popping at the speed they will" and honestly- thats fine...if we did we would burn ourselves out...so either 1) thats the point, others get some chances or 2) thats the point, burn out and die! muahahahahahaha!111!!!one!!!11

[Vandy]

I'm on vacation in Mexico ATM laying on the beach a d this make me extremely. I'm in no rush to get back home but when i do it will make the limited play time i have MUCH more hospitable! I do think once a week may be too often but damn if you guys aren't trying something, awesome in my opinion that you are willing to move forward with something New for the server.! Thank you so much for trying to make this stale server evolve!!

[Ravager]

As it is right now, everyone can get into VP without trying, they just have to join TMO. If no training were enforced, it means that everyone would have to try in VP, TMO included, because they couldn't just sit back and leave a couple of trainers camped there to train the ever-living shit out of anyone who sets foot in the zone, whether they're there to raid, or just port to sky.

[Hagglebaron]

I always felt having VP as a survival of the fittest zone was cool. I've never seen it and never will, and that's fine with me, though I definitely would love to. It seemed like a place for the hardcore folks, not the casuals (which I am).

This was how it was on live, and this is how it should stay on here imo.

[falkun]

I'm super late the the conversation, just getting back into P99 and then sifting through 28 pages of this.

Anyways, I personally think an extra spawn every week is too generous. I think EQMac's middle ground of server reset every 2 weeks is better. However, this is a 13 year old game, we are playing it because we enjoy it, not because these pixels are shinier. I'm all for providing everyone the opportunity to experience the parts of the game they missed on Live, as that is the reason I am here.

I am extremely glad to see an FTE shout mechanic coming to the raid scene. Hopefully it does what I predict and lessens GM involvement in FTE disputes.

YAY shorter variance! In "my" perfect world, variance would be 24hrs total (+/-12hrs), but 48hrs is a hell of a lot better than 96.

Finally, I think the serverwide respawn should be possible any time of the day. While I'm an EST player, I think there should be an equal shot at the serverwide respawn for all timezones and all lifestyles (shift workers, Euros, etc.).

Either way, hopefully this is more pixels for all, TMO gets to track less (and will very likely see more mobs killed as well). Its a win-win for every positive aspect on the server and a blow to pixel denial.

[Rogean]

We're now leaning towards a full server respawn, instead of just raid targets.

How this would be executed is now what we need to determine, as to not interrupt current groups in progress and create a situation where a room full of mobs would repop on top of them.

Ideas we are talking about are giving enough of a warning, anywhere from 30 seconds to 5 minutes. We are also discussing the automatic teleport to the zone's safe coordinates or zone in location.

In considering how this normally worked back in the day, anytime the server came down there was usually significant warning of about 10 minutes before it did.

But I'd also like to bring up for discussion that I seem to remember when server's came back up in classic, it could usually take several hours for many raid mobs to spawn. Maybe I'm remembering this wrong.

Anyways, discuss.

[nilbog]

We are also discussing the automatic teleport to the zone's safe coordinates or zone in location.



Personally, I do not think this should happen.

-Respawning of npcs - classic? check.
-Catching up on missing spawns due to lack of patches - classic? check.
-Teleporting people or moving them against their will - do not like.

I would rather disconnect everyone and have them able to rejoin than move them.

[Xadion]

But I'd also like to bring up for discussion that I seem to remember when server's came back up in classic, it could usually take several hours for many raid mobs to spawn. Maybe I'm remembering this wrong.

Anyways, discuss.


After a while, I dont know exactly when- but I am sure our local patch historians can find out- but this was a change put in- it was where on server down/up there would not be insta repop of everything but a certian % of repop on server- and then a certian "window" for repop... I think it was 12hr max? I am sure someone can clarify this. It was put in later, dont know if it was vel or kunark... but it made it usualy so on server crash/patch you would come in and usualy 1/3-1/2 of raid mobs would be up (so you have to go check/track em) and then the rest would be repopping in a short little window to keep things intiresting.

[fadetree]

Personally, I do not think this should happen.

-Respawning of npcs - classic? check.
-Catching up on missing spawns due to lack of patches - classic? check.
-Teleporting people or moving them against their will - do not like.

I would rather disconnect everyone and have them able to rejoin than move them.

FWIW, I agree with Nilbog. No ports, please. 10 mins enough time to GTFO if we decide to.

[bylbob]

After a while, I dont know exactly when- but I am sure our local patch historians can find out- but this was a change put in- it was where on server down/up there would not be insta repop of everything but a certian % of repop on server- and then a certian "window" for repop... I think it was 12hr max? I am sure someone can clarify this. It was put in later, dont know if it was vel or kunark... but it made it usualy so on server crash/patch you would come in and usualy 1/3-1/2 of raid mobs would be up (so you have to go check/track em) and then the rest would be repopping in a short little window to keep things intiresting.

I believe it was after luclin launch, insta repop on server/zone crash was changed because some abilities allowed players to crash them on purpose (paladins should remember act of valor AA working quite well for that).

[Jacquouille]

I would play P99 again if this goes live.

Good measures Rogean !

[Nirgon]

This is a continuation from the other thread ( http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86005 ).

Here is what nilbog and I are currently planning/designing/brainstorming:

We will be cutting the variance in half on the existing raid spawns.

We will be implementing an FTE notice of some sort, whether this is an emote or some type of message.

We will be implementing a simulated patch day respawn. Here is how it will work.

The server will pick one day of each week (Random 1 to 7, Sunday through Saturday). It will then pick a random time. I will not disclose the range of the possible times, but it will only include afternoon and evening hours, so as to give the best chance for the most people to benefit from it.

A serverwide message will go off indicating that the simulated patch day respawn has or will be taking effect shortly. All raid mobs will (either immediately, delayed, or spanned, tbd) respawn.

These respawns will NOT affect the normal respawn times of the mob. For example. If Talendor was killed on Monday, and on death the server determined he would spawn again on Sunday. A simulated patch day occurs on Thursday, his death on Thursday will not reset his scheduled respawn time on Sunday.
Exception: If the mob's spawn time is scheduled to occur within (To be determined, probably either 6 or 12 hours) of the simulated patch day respawn, it will calculate a new spawn time for the mob as it would had he been killed normally, when he dies from the simulated respawn.

Discuss, and know that this system is not final, now or even when it goes live. We will evaluate how it plays out.

This is really good work dude. No joke.

I'll even go as far to say this is needed for Velious. The amount of screaming over Sleeper keys early... Jeesh.

[Dantes]

-Teleporting people or moving them against their will - do not like.

I would rather disconnect everyone and have them able to rejoin than move them.

I remember this happening during classic era. I have no hard evidence, but if you ignored all of the warnings that the server was coming down, you would be disconnected in place when the server resets and then when you logged back in you would be at the designated "safe spot" for that zone. Couple times that really confused the hell out of me, because some of the zones had safe spots that were in very odd locations.

[falkun]

I think 10 minutes is a good amount of time for resets. Casters can gate out, but melees would be left stranded, especially leveling melees during a zone repop. High level characters/melees are expected to have an OT hammer or WC hat, but you can't expect a L30 melee in a group in the bottom of LGuk to be able to walk himself out because the casters gated.

[Picked]

Anyone else see the future on this one? Each and every day they do a reset on the server there will be a thread in here of a casual player complaining because they couldn't play much and get one group all week long and this just happened to be the time the server was taken down and wrecked their group?

[rcasale42]

Anyone else see the future on this one? Each and every day they do a reset on the server there will be a thread in here of a casual player complaining because they couldn't play much and get one group all week long and this just happened to be the time the server was taken down and wrecked their group?

I don't think they are actually taking the server down, they are just popping everything. It simulates the server coming down.

[Lazortag]

We're now leaning towards a full server respawn, instead of just raid targets.

How this would be executed is now what we need to determine, as to not interrupt current groups in progress and create a situation where a room full of mobs would repop on top of them.

Ideas we are talking about are giving enough of a warning, anywhere from 30 seconds to 5 minutes. We are also discussing the automatic teleport to the zone's safe coordinates or zone in location.

In considering how this normally worked back in the day, anytime the server came down there was usually significant warning of about 10 minutes before it did.

But I'd also like to bring up for discussion that I seem to remember when server's came back up in classic, it could usually take several hours for many raid mobs to spawn. Maybe I'm remembering this wrong.

Anyways, discuss.

Raid mobs would respawn instantly until luclin I believe. DKP records of prominent guilds seem to support this fact (not that I have them on hand but they were posted in a thread a long time ago about Trak's spawn time).

I honestly don't think that repopping the entire zone is that disruptive to groups. It happened in classic and groups would usually move to a safe spot in the 10-15 minutes or so that they had before the patch.

The full reset means that timers will be reset too right? So if Noble dojorn dies on Tuesday and there's a repop on Wednesday (where he's killed again), he'll respawn next Wednesday instead of next Tuesday right?

[Nirgon]

Sometimes they'd respawn and sometimes not... I forget what the condition to it was. Can't give you 100% on that but it has a real yessy aftertaste.

[Slave]

Super excited.

I would personally lean away from the full repop just due to there not really being any problems with non-raid mobs that are significant enough to mention.

Adding a bonus spawn rate to all mobs might be unbalancing when that is not really warranted for anything but the raid targets.

[Frieza_Prexus]

While I am in favor of a flat out full respawn, has the anti-camp code been considered?

Flag any zone that is a dungeon as "anti-camp." When the server fully respawns, any spawn points within, say, 30 feet of a PC will not repop inside dungeons. This creates a protective bubble around players at the bottom of a dungeon. If they so choose, they can leave the spawn points before the reset so that the named they're camping will repop. Best of both worlds maybe.

[Ambrotos]

While I am in favor of a flat out full respawn, has the anti-camp code been considered?

Flag any zone that is a dungeon as "anti-camp." When the server fully respawns, any spawn points within, say, 30 feet of a PC will not repop inside dungeons. This creates a protective bubble around players at the bottom of a dungeon. If they so choose, they can leave the spawn points before the reset so that the named they're camping will repop. Best of both worlds maybe>

Could be used to just greif people, and there are people who would be willing to do it. I wouldn't advise this.

On live it was a random timer of when servers crashed/patched. I remember the guild I was in would have to send out trackers to different zones to see what was up. Not sure when it started or ended, but it did make us race a few times. I would say do this and have the major spawns have a variance of 10 mins-2 hours of spawning after the server comes back up.

Would cause people to have to react to stuff popping, and will make people make choices at the risk of going after major targets. They could be caught in some random zone killing something, when something else spawns allowing some other force to have a higher chance.

[Tarathiel]

Personally, I do not think this should happen.

-Respawning of npcs - classic? check.
-Catching up on missing spawns due to lack of patches - classic? check.
-Teleporting people or moving them against their will - do not like.

I would rather disconnect everyone and have them able to rejoin than move them.

/agree

i dont like the teleporting idea either, just give people plenty of notice and let them plan accordingly

[Llodd]

Disconnection and full server repop is so classic, like it.

To the nay sayers that insist velious will be the cureall; whilst that is more than likely true, atleast at first, it really is just putting a bandaid on the problem. What happens 3 or so years after velious has been out (assuming the servers still going) ? Yes there are more raid targets in general but the potential for the same crap to keep rearing it's head will be there because the problem hasn't been resolved one way or the other.

As for VP being GM free with no rules being classic, it's my understanding (and I'm reallly unsure of this!) that during classic live there were no real zergfest guilds mullering the zone because the t'internet back then just couldn't handle it. If that's the case then it seems somewhat paradoxical to insist on the same ruleset unless guild/raid size is reduced to classic level.

[Frieza_Prexus]

As for VP being GM free with no rules being classic, it's my understanding (and I'm reallly unsure of this!) that during classic live there were no real zergfest guilds mullering the zone because the t'internet back then just couldn't handle it. If that's the case then it seems somewhat paradoxical to insist on the same ruleset unless guild/raid size is reduced to classic level.

This is true to an extent, however, the regen on the dragons is, in my view, higher than it was on live and the AEs seem to be far more dangerous on a few of the dragons. This is excellent here because it ends up providing a reasonable approximation of the difficulty we faced at the time on live.

Silverwing here is actually fairly dangerous whereas on live she was a total joke. Hoshkar here is still a massive threat, but he's never been able to pull off a gate. I was not a melee on live (wizard), but it seems to me push occurs far too often here. Of course, my memory could just be off and we were just really dumb when it came to stopping gates on live.

Nexona is an ass-beater, and Druushk can occasionally wipe a raid if people have bad luck on their saving throws. Phara`Dar is a joke here, but this is probably due to us having MR scores 2-3 timers higher than live. Xygoz was, and always will be, a joke

[eqravenprince]

Just pointing out the obvious, this is a flaw in EQ design. There is a reason I like PvE servers. I just don't like competing against other players that are a lot better or have more time on their hands. So I just give up and let them have their pixels, I'll go find some other pixels to play with.

[Splorf22]

Perhaps there could be a compromise with no VP trains for 2 hours during simulated resets.

I do find it a bit amusing that so many people are talking about how great it is to train in VP. The attitudes were a bit different when VD was doing it last spring.

[Frieza_Prexus]

I do find it a bit amusing that so many people are talking about how great it is to train in VP. The attitudes were a bit different when VD was doing it last spring.

That is because we as a group are not logicians and philosophers, but instead greedy backstabbing rumor mongers at heart. Our realm is not Platonism, but bitterness and recrimination. (Read: lolololololzzz)

[Arrisard]

Raid mobs would respawn instantly until luclin I believe. DKP records of prominent guilds seem to support this fact (not that I have them on hand but they were posted in a thread a long time ago about Trak's spawn time).

Some did and some didn't, and according to this list (http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=9508&TabID=77837&ForumID=614583&TopicID=2111703) Trakanon specifically remained an instant spawn after patches.

Before anyone loses their shit over me not stating what should be obvious; I have no idea when that list becomes relevant in the timeline or how accurate it is, it's just a preliminary google search that obviously needs more looking into. Just seems Trakanon shouldn't be the measuring stick we should use.

[Bubbles]

Anyone else see the future on this one? Each and every day they do a reset on the server there will be a thread in here of a casual player complaining because they couldn't play much and get one group all week long and this just happened to be the time the server was taken down and wrecked their group?

LOL. yep, and thats about as classic as classic could ever hope to be :)

[cyryllis]

I think most of the time when servers were coming down it was ~5 minute warning. 10 is a nice amount though, especially for melees who will have a harder time finding a safe spot in a short amount of time.

I'm in favor of instant repops, just because it would allow for a greater number of guilds to attempt targets. If the spawns are staggered, it makes it easier for one guild to get all of them.

[LizardNecro]

I'm in favor of instant repops, just because it would allow for a greater number of guilds to attempt targets. If the spawns are staggered, it makes it easier for one guild to get all of them.

+1

[Autotune]

Perhaps there could be a compromise with no VP trains for 2 hours during simulated resets.

I do find it a bit amusing that so many people are talking about how great it is to train in VP. The attitudes were a bit different when VD was doing it last spring.

VD wasn't training, they were abusing a bug that CSR turned a blind eye to. Amazing how abusing a quest or pathing can get you perma banned, but using a bug to fully heal a target is okay.

If people were able to go around and fully heal normal mobs, you can bet your ass that they would have banned people for it. However, considering GMs/Guides like to do whatever they want for their own personal reasons, you get stuff like that on the regular here.

[Ambrotos]

Amelinda asked what she should do about it. She was told just to not worry about it till the patch went in. This is what she told me, and that is what she enforced. There was no personal vendetta at all.

Attacking the reputation of the staff won't be tolerated.


01[18:06] Ambrotos> well on the topic of morons
01[18:06] Ambrotos> im sure this is one of the last things you want
01[18:06] Ambrotos> anyways, this entire mem blur shit etc etc
01[18:07] Ambrotos> from my understanding the mobs regen health too fast, and its not working as it really should
01[18:08] Ambrotos> im perfectly willing to stand up and say cut that shit out, its agianist the spirit of the rogean law
[18:08] Amelinda> that's up to you - i'm not going to make anyone do that.
[18:08] Amelinda> i asked rogean about it.
[18:08] Amelinda> and he said don't do anything for now.
[18:09] Amelinda> i'm going to talk to him about the fact that they regen too fast.

And guess what. I told VD to stop and they did.

[Pringles]

Good to see Ambrotos dishing out going away presents, LOL. Cya Autotune.

[Stealin]

Amelinda asked what she should do about it. She was told just to not worry about it till the patch went in. This is what she told me, and that is what she enforced. There was no personal vendetta at all.

Attacking the reputation of the staff won't be tolerated.



And guess what. I told VD to stop and they did.

Oh, I knew it wasn't you, no reason to get all upset about what I said. The call came directly from Rogean. Still doesn't make what I said any different. The same thing they were doing could be done by anyone to snag XP and loot from kills (which is how the bug was found to do what it does to raid mobs).

Rogean had his own personal reasons for making that call, doesn't make it any more correct.

[Lubian]

-Teleporting people or moving them against their will - do not like.

I would rather disconnect everyone and have them able to rejoin than move them.Believe it or not, zone repops (aka Repop IMMINENT message) would sometimes move people, but I don't know if the teleport had occurred in classic/kunark, and/or if the teleport would only occur in zones with boats.

I think the only time I've heard of it disconnecting people is if the something terrible occurred, like the zone crashing on repop.

***

I honestly think moving people is a bad idea:

Oh a zone repop happens in 5 minutes? Let me log into my non-caster who is stuck deep in a dungeon, for a free teleport somewhere safe!

Or

Crap, I don't want it to teleport me. I better just log off right before the teleport happens. Then I can log back in right after the teleport moves everyone so I can steal their camps.

[Nirgon]

Everyone doesn't get a shot, this isn't WoW.

Get organized, surely you can all camp out somewhere while something is in window and get at least a few mobs? Doesn't have to be Trak, just make sure you get certain ones.

[Artaenc]

Personally, I do not think this should happen.

-Respawning of npcs - classic? check.
-Catching up on missing spawns due to lack of patches - classic? check.
-Teleporting people or moving them against their will - do not like.

I would rather disconnect everyone and have them able to rejoin than move them.

I'm not sure how much coding would be required but for the imminent simulated reset, people in those zones already should have a safe area to wait for the server to come back up. They are already in that zone so they should have first shot at it.

Examples:

Plane of Fear/Plane of Hate: Zonein is safe so that a guild that's already been there for 5 hours can have a shot at the the bosses there by allowing them to camp at the zone in and reassemble after the server comes back up. If multiple guilds were already there then they would have to race to create a path to the boss to get FTE without training each other (fun).

Plane of Sky: Zonein is safe no issues if a guild is already there they would have to jump off and get ready to port back up quickly after reset.

Trakanon: Whichever guild can assemble quicker after loging back in and pulling to get FTE. The entire zone should be all empty for 5 minutes so that you don't disrupt people there just to exp that much and they have time to log back in and reform their groups before having to deal with an instant respawn of mobs.

Just my 2 coppers.

[HawkMasterson1999]

will this reset vendors too?

[Arclanz]

Rog, FWIW, I like the idea of entire world repop. :) More content for everyone is good.

Everyone doesn't get a shot, this isn't WoW.

Funny, on my server I recall everyone did most certainly get a shot if they put in the time to get the levels and groups. I remember 12 hour raids with numerous guilds in Fear, Hate, etc. Good times.

But here I suppose non-classic bug-fixes make raiding trivial; and the broken powerleveling code permits anyone to get a PL to max level in days.

I don't like the "we were here first so cry me a river" attitude. Just because your toons leveled up in 2010 doesn't mean you should lock out other players from content. Racing for content was never part of my EQ experience; and the spawn coveting that goes on in the upper levels keeps this server at a fairly small pop. I remember when I played in 2010, many posts here about poop-socking. Not any more. Why? Everyone left.

EQ enoyed early success because it is a PVE game. If, instead, the player must compete against another player to get the content...well that sure sounds like PvP. Fact is, a very small percentage (1 in 1000) of EQ players likes to 'race for content.' So if that is the rule of this sever, then you can expect the pop to reflect that.

[Safon]

Rog, FWIW, I like the idea of entire world repop. :) More content for everyone is good.



Funny, on my server I recall everyone did most certainly get a shot if they put in the time to get the levels and groups. I remember 12 hour raids with numerous guilds in Fear, Hate, etc. Good times.

But here I suppose non-classic bug-fixes make raiding trivial; and the broken powerleveling code permits anyone to get a PL to max level in days.

I don't like the "we were here first so cry me a river" attitude. Just because your toons leveled up in 2010 doesn't mean you should lock out other players from content. Racing for content was never part of my EQ experience; and the spawn coveting that goes on in the upper levels keeps this server at a fairly small pop. I remember when I played in 2010, many posts here about poop-socking. Not any more. Why? Everyone left.

EQ enoyed early success because it is a PVE game. If, instead, the player must compete against another player to get the content...well that sure sounds like PvP. Fact is, a very small percentage (1 in 1000) of EQ players likes to 'race for content.' So if that is the rule of this sever, then you can expect the pop to reflect that.

Stop talking about the pop trends like you know what caused them, because clearly you don't. You can make your free pixels argument without lying or twisting facts

[happyhappy]

Ideas we are talking about are giving enough of a warning, anywhere from 30 seconds to 5 minutes. We are also discussing the automatic teleport to the zone's safe coordinates or zone in location.




Personally, I do not think this should happen.

-Respawning of npcs - classic? check.
-Catching up on missing spawns due to lack of patches - classic? check.
-Teleporting people or moving them against their will - do not like.

I would rather disconnect everyone and have them able to rejoin than move them.

Bring server down, put everyone camped in dungeons at the safespot buffless, including people who camped ahead of time.

While I generally agree with Nilbog on everything classic related, the raiding scene here is very much non classic. Back in the days, nobody was paying for 3-4 accounts in order to have a 60 alt camped off at every raid spawn + a 52s at vox and naggy.

If the downtime is announced far enough ahead of time, like it was in classic, it should not hinder non-raiders any more than it did back then. If its really needed, log where people were before the move in case of a camp dispute.

[falkun]

Back in the days, nobody was paying for 3-4 accounts in order to have a 60 alt camped off at every raid spawn + a 52s at vox and naggy.

This is one of the top issues for P99's raid scene, but I don't know how to begin to address it. Characters don't DIE on this server, they just get new owners. On Live, when you quit, your character, all the work put in to him or her, was gone. The server needed fresh blood and new items because old characters and old items would be removed from the system when a person stopped paying $10/mo. The game world never benefited from it again. Here, if you quit, someone buys your character and that character can now be used to track, camp out at another raid spawn, etc. Its so damned easy to acquire new characters: Rare Trak loot and epic items go for twice the amount of most L60 stripped characters, PP-wise.

[Tecmos Deception]

Not to mention 1) quitting didn't mean someone wasn't going to give away all their gear and money to their friends, 2) people who sell their accounts for pp when they "quit" either aren't really quitting or they're going to RMT which might get the accounts involved banned, 3) people could quickly use PL teams to VERY easily/quickly get vox/naggy/tracking alts.

[Rogean]

I also do not like the idea of raid guilds spreading their camped alts around in order to quickly log in and out to maximize raid targets.. but I'm not seeing any good solutions to that problem.

And you do have a point in saying that people who quit on live generally wouldn't be seen again, their subscription would run out, nobody is going to bother paying $14/month just to keep them standing by on a raid spawn so they can quickly be logged in to kill something.

[heartbrand]

$14 a month not classic

[maximum]

Good news!

Everyone click the ads...

[Orruar]

Maybe we should start charging $14/month per account for this server. Give all the money to charity to make sure it stays legal.