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View Full Version : The Good, The Bad & The Ugly: Velious


Netherzul
11-09-2012, 12:27 AM
Bored, medding and waiting on respawns so I figured I'd browse around google and try to catch up on my knowledge of the EQ classes during and throughout Velious. It's been a difficult search and I haven't collected much information beyond what I remember myself and a few tid-bits here and there.


DISCLAIMER: It's been 10 years for me. The information I have typed below is not considered as FACT. This are simply recollection memories and a small amount of almost indiscernible research and may not be 100% accurate. If something I write is incorrect, feel free to correct it by replacing what was incorrect with what is accurate.


I'm going to follow a very simple format. Feel free to use the same format and add what you remember about classes during Velious either regarding the spells they gained or their experiences soloing/dpsing/raiding. I will not have much to contribute outside of spell benefits in regards to classes beyond the Shaman, due to that being my main throughout my EQ experience.




Bard: The Good - Gained a haste that was stack-able with Enchanter haste, making Monks and Rogues jizz'm in their pantaloons, that much more over their dps. Also gained an unresistable debuff that lowered resists by a small amount, allowing other support to more easily land their debuffs. Still highly desired in groups due to the large amounts of resists / general stacking buffs they add to a group. Still capable of soloing very well in wide open areas.

The Bad - Still add no real personal DPS to a group/raid as they did not gain the ability to double attack until in PoP (something I did not remember until research). However, see "The Good" above.


Cleric: The Good - Still the best healers in the game. Also gained the best hit point buff hands down. 1100 hp + AC is something Clerics will be driven to the brink of madness by, due to the mana cost & how many group members will request this buff.

The Bad - No MGB AA for Aegolism.


Druid: The Good - Now more viable in a group due to a new heal they receive. In Velious, Druids really fill their own niche becoming a pseudo Cleric/Wizard combo. They also get a new fantastic buff that also adds mana regeneration. They get a new quick cast, somewhat efficient heal. They also get to summon a bear pet! Disregard the fact that he is useless.

The Bad - Soloing changes a bit for Druids due to the high MR of the typical Velious mob (this will be a very slight if even noticeable change). I had to put SOMETHING here right?


Enchanter: The Good - They get to turn someone into a wearwolf...WITH a lifetap proc! Also get a max mana/mana regen buff. Even more spells to bug the hell out of your local Enchanter for!

The Bad - I had a real life friend who played a 60 Enchanter during Velious, so limited viewpoint here but; still extremely boring to play in a raid. I'm not sure how much their amazing solo capability changes during Velious but I imagine it will be impacted some, even if very slightly.


Magician: The Good - Magicians gain the ability to summon a random NPC monster in the zone as their pet. I remember enjoying this very much, even as a Shaman. It changed things up quite a bit. They also gained a new DD/dot spell. I believe they are still capable of doing some decent solo but don't quote me on this.

The Bad - High MR targets are going to make Magicians pull their hair out. At least if you have your epic, you'll likely out DPS or match the DPS of a Wizard on certain raid targets!


Monk: The Good - Even more uber lewtz (much more friendly to Monks) will drop in Velious, allowing them to take over the role of totally and burly bad ass tank during this expansion (on most bosses). Their DPS will also increase. These guys are simply bad ass during Velious. With the obvious favoritism towards melees that Variant had, the weaponry and gear you will be swimming through may seemingly be endless. Monks easily and justifiably fill 3 roles in a group during Velious; DPS, Tank & Stand There and Look Sexy. If you haven't rolled a Monk alt yet, now is the time to do so.

The Bad: Hmm. I'm struggling for something here. The pain of going through the Coldain ring faction grind/quest? That's all I've got.


Necromancer: The Good - A new mana regen that will allow them to twitch faster than ever before! Also a new pet buff for the spec. Necros can (if a single one is dedicated) seriously pump out the DPS in Velious. On Bristlebane (Arch Overseers) our raid had a dedicated Necro who could compete with Rogues/Monks and still maintain twitching the Clerics/spot healing. Still a strong class during Velious.

The Bad - Necros also have to deal with the woes of high MR mobs in Velious.


Paladin: The Good - Still a solid tank during Velious. One of the favored tanks in groups due to snap aggro / group support. They get a HP buff that stacks with any other HP buff iirc along with a nice group heal (for even more aggro generation).

The Bad - They still suffer from the hybrid EXP penalty, thus we will likely see very few high level Paladins during this expansion as well. They also are not favored as main tanks unless absolutely necessary, during Velious due to Warriors still being the kings of HP/AC.


Ranger: The Good - Nothing really changes much for Rangers iirc, during Velious. I believe I remember seeing them cast an additional buff on a frequent basis that added the chance to proc a DD. They also gained a small bit of utility by gaining a nice group buff that adds +attack.

The Bad - You're still a Ranger (kidding <3).


Rogue: The Good - Still the kings of overall sustained DPS. The plethora of weaponry you get to choose from during this expansion will make you want to steal your grandmas coin-purse. Prepare to see all new, all time highest back-stabs for ridiculous amounts of damage. If you're extremely lucky or if you've got your tongue in-betwixt your guild leaders gluteus-maximus cheeks, or are extremely rich, you may end up with one of the most desired masks leading up to and during this expansion.

The Bad - Still completely reliant on groups / current server population. You will still have nights of sitting in EC /lfg for 6 hours. No, don't even try to solo that green.


Shadow Knights: The Good - In the same boat as Paladin but maybe slightly better off due to their primary snap aggro spell being diseased based. No group heals here but they do get a self buff proc that is a lifetap (iirc also nice for aggro).

The Bad - A lot of your aggro abilities will suffer the same fate of classes that rely primarily on magic based attacks. I don't recall this being a huge issue in groups but I'm trying to avoid leaving this area blank! Also suffer greatly due to the hybrid exp penalty.


Shamans: The Good - Druids, you get to SUMMON a bear, Shamans get to turn into one! A self regen/wisdom buff that stacks with everything. Shamans also get a single target buff that not only applies their hit-point & strength buffs but their dexterity buff as well. This opens 2 extra slots for additional buffs which should benefit overall raid composition buff wise. Shamans, like Enchanters, typically maintain their solo capability (one of the few classes with the ability to solo wurms, so I've been told). They also get a new avatar that does not require a component. Time to make some Monks/Rogues you total abiding slaves *at least until they get primal weaponry*. IIRC, Shamans during Velious took on specific debuffing roles. One would be in charge of MALO, another of SLOW, etc. Obviously, one of these roles should and can be filled by a Magician to allow at least one Shaman 100% dedicated to raid healing (this may be the case on P99 now, my raid experience here is very limited, however, it's much more pertinent during Velious with raid bosses not being capped at 32k...). I remember being considered the 2nd best healing class in Velious, even over Druids with their new heal, due to the overall sustain that a Shaman still maintains during Velious (much higher throughput due to Canni).

The Bad - Also facing the MR woes during Velious. No diseased based slow introduced during Velious. Still the slow kings due to their slow reducing attack speed by an additional 5% over their Enchanter counterparts...if you can get it to land, that is.


Warrior: The Good - Still the undisputed MT of major raid targets. Highest hit-points, highest AC. Fairly obvious here. Also have a nice array of weapons to choose from that help close the gap on threat generation (nice procs) while simultaneously boosting your DPS (see AoW) whereas currently, to maintain good threat, you generally have shit dps (proc reliant).

The Bad - Unless in a top raiding guild (and geared...), groups will still value Paladins/SK's over you, as a tank.


Wizard: The Good - Lure spells are introduced to help you combat the insane MR of raid targets in Velious. Wizards maintain their specialty role of burning targets at 30% or so, being unmatched in DPS those last percentages of a raid mobs health. I recall Wizards being the raid heroes during some of the Velious era boss fights because of their ability to pull off a last second burnout to kill the raid mob with 8-10 people still standing. In a group setting, Ice Spear of Solist is simply amazing due to it's mana/damage ratio. Wizards, in my opinion, gain a great deal of grouping utility in Velious due to obtaining this one spell. You get translocate spells! Prepare to be bombarded with tells for people asking to be translocated. Also be prepared to pocket the tip money too! No more zoning over with your compatriots to bring them to the zones of their desire. Simply point at them and POOF, off they go.

The Bad - Outside of lure spells, Wizards are hit extremely hard in Velious. Get used to the fact (if you're not already) that a large percentage of your nukes will be resisted, in most cases, outright resisted. Also be prepared to spend an additional 5 minutes medding (on top of the 15 minutes already) to reach a full mana bar from OOM. With the newly introduced caster equipment, your mana pool should be huge and thus your time spent sitting will be even more huge, to compensate!


That's what I've got to add! It may not be 100% accurate and it may not be the most lucrative and educational amount of information on the classes during the era of Velious, but it's a start and I'm hoping others on P99 will contribute. To be honest, I don't remember much about Velious. I was 13-14 at the time. I am now 28. I've since then, jammed my brain with memories of DAoC, Warhammer (lol?), WoW, EQ2 and other small time MMOs.

Thanks for reading and if you contribute, THANK YOU again. I want to remember everything there was to know about the classes during Velious and with all of the great EQ players on P99, I'm sure we can narrow down all of the information very closely to how they were during live EQ Velious.

Danth
11-09-2012, 01:44 AM
Velious era is a very good time to be a Ranger, Paladin or Shadow Knight, relative to Kunark (the kunark era being the nadir of those classes). A couple months after Velious launched, several important changes were made:

Defense (offense for Rangers) skill cap was raised to equal to that of Warriors.
Basic combat table was made the same as the pure melees
Hybrid spell casting haste was added.
Various new spells were added.
Class experience penalties removed.

All of the above makes it a much happier time relative to Kunark. In the "bad" category, there isn't much undead around for Paladins, but that's quite minor relative to the good.

Note: You sound like you don't tank much; it doesn't matter if an spell you use for aggro gets resisted or not. It'll generate aggro either way.

Danth

pasi
11-09-2012, 02:00 AM
I'm bored so I'll bite in short fashion.

This is all from the perspective of raiding, group/solo is a different matter.

Necros new lich (Arch Lich) is a downgrade over demi-lich. It's the same spell as the 49 lich with a spectre graphic. If you're not pulling, this class sucks.

Mages have 2 spells in Velious: Call of the Hero, and Summon: Modulating Rod.

Enchanter - Buff Bot that is incredibly strong in some zones and trash in others.

Wizard Bane Spells keep the class competitive, but still behind rogues/monks.

Shaman - no real improvements from Kunark, but the class carries over well.

Druid - dead weight Buff bot until Luclin/PoP.

Bards - never a bad class.

Shadowknight - Dead weight unless pulling. Good for tanking NToV hatchlings, I guess.

Paladin - slightly better than SK due to Divine Strength and group heals.

Ranger - class significantly improves from Kunark. Weaponshield is a cornerstone of raiding.

Rogue + Monk - you mean an itemization expansion featuring mobs with a lot of HP is good for sustained DPS?

Cleric + Warrior - Velious is yours for the taking.

Allizia
11-09-2012, 06:44 AM
Rogue: The Good - Still the kings of overall sustained DPS. The plethora of weaponry you get to choose from during this expansion will make you want to steal your grandmas coin-purse. Prepare to see all new, all time highest back-stabs for ridiculous amounts of damage. If you're extremely lucky or if you've got your tongue in-betwixt your guild leaders gluteus-maximus cheeks, or are extremely rich, you may end up with one of the most desired masks leading up to and during this expansion.


Highest backstab wont change at all, rogue daggers cap at 15 damage (same as epic) until Planes of Power (or bane weapons in luclin) iirc

Will still pick up some DPS, but most rogues will just gain more survivability.

Reiker000
11-09-2012, 06:51 AM
Bard: The Good - Gained a haste that was stack-able with Enchanter haste, making Monks and Rogues jizz'm in their pantaloons, that much more over their dps.

??? Pretty sure this wasn't until Luclin, War Song of the Vah'shir or whatever. Occlusion of Sound is awesome because it stacks with other shit.

Druid: The Good - They also get a new fantastic buff that also adds mana regeneration.
I thought this was Luclin too - Protection of the Cabbage?


Shaman - no real improvements from Kunark, but the class carries over well.

Canni IV is a huge improvement over the Canni I-III crap, dramatically increases shaman mana regen so you can laugh at lesser classes who actually need med breaks.


Pretty much it's good to be a melee in Velious. Hybrids may still be lacking, but they're still better off than they were in Classic-Kunark. They actually get some niche roles to fill (flurry drakes, rampage tanking). They went so overboard with Velious gear that pretty much anyone who needs gear is doing a lot better, which pretty much excludes casters other than Shaman (AC+HP=Mana). FT is obviously great for casters, but I'm not quite sure if it competes with all the AC and extra dps that melees will be getting directly from gear.

You can see why Shaman became so beastly, they're just about the only caster class that directly benefits from gear stats. This is why focus effects in Luclin were so necessary to stop the out of control class disparity that was going on in Velious. They tried with FT, but it basically came down if the item has FT, try to get it, if it doesn't, then pass. Then once you capped out at 15 (which wasn't necessarily impossible, especially with Tunare and CT 2.0 loot) you were back to not caring about gear again.

Tecmos Deception
11-09-2012, 07:09 AM
I don't think melee should be THAT excited about the velious bard haste. If you are a rogue or someone with a high-end haste source, you're already at the haste cap when an enchanter is around.

Allizia
11-09-2012, 07:22 AM
FT 15 wasn't even possible for all classes iirc. 15 was cap but they did not stack, You had to get 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5, which was not available to everyone, unless I am mistaken. FT 1 + 1 would only give FT 1

Reiker000
11-09-2012, 07:33 AM
I don't think melee should be THAT excited about the velious bard haste. If you are a rogue or someone with a high-end haste source, you're already at the haste cap when an enchanter is around.
Yeah, this is what confused me. No overhaste until Luclin.

FT 15 wasn't even possible for all classes iirc. 15 was cap but they did not stack, You had to get 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5, which was not available to everyone, unless I am mistaken. FT 1 + 1 would only give FT 1
All types of FT stacked up to 15, unless this was one of those early Velious quirks that got changed (but iirc FT wasn't introduced until sometime after the expansion had already launched, correct me if I'm wrong).

But yeah, I don't remember FT1 and FT1 not stacking.

webrunner5
11-09-2012, 08:41 AM
Rangers get Panic Animal which makes Fear Kiting happen for them.

Vicatin
11-09-2012, 11:01 AM
Great thread. Thank you

Dentalplan
11-09-2012, 11:13 AM
Necros new lich (Arch Lich) is a downgrade over demi-lich. It's the same spell as the 49 lich with a spectre graphic.

Was this upgraded later or something? It's currently +35 / -36 on live, but I never played a necromancer during velious.

Galanteer
11-09-2012, 11:51 AM
Ench and Bard can be non KoS in Velks, only Velkator gives a negative faction hit there. Great for corpse recovery and moving around.

Ele
11-09-2012, 12:30 PM
Flowing Thought Items did not "stack" until after Luclin:

------------------------------
January 8, 2002 3:00 am
------------------------------
[...]
- Flowing Thought effects will now stack

There has been previous discussion in the other Velious threads about whether this meant FT of the same level did not stack; if only the highest level version took effect; or if different levels stacked with each other before this change occurred.

First scenario:
FT1 + FT1 + FT1 = FT1

Second scenario:
FT3 + FT1 + FT1 = FT3

Third scenario:
FT3 + FT2 + FT1 = FT6

falkun
11-09-2012, 12:58 PM
First scenario:
FT1 + FT1 + FT1 = FT1

Second scenario:
FT3 + FT1 + FT1 = FT3

Third scenario:
FT3 + FT2 + FT1 = FT6

The question is how is this scenario handled:

FT1 + FT1 + FT2 + FT3 = ???

Is it FT3 (Only highest FT counts), FT 6 (you can have one of each level of FT), or FT7 (all FT stacks). The general consensus is that its NOT FT7, that the same level of FT does not stack in Velious. But there is not consensus on whether different FT versions stack or not.

HeallunRumblebelly
11-09-2012, 02:07 PM
Bored, medding and waiting on respawns so I figured I'd browse around google and try to catch up on my knowledge of the EQ classes during and throughout Velious. It's been a difficult search and I haven't collected much information beyond what I remember myself and a few tid-bits here and there.


DISCLAIMER: It's been 10 years for me. The information I have typed below is not considered as FACT. This are simply recollection memories and a small amount of almost indiscernible research and may not be 100% accurate. If something I write is incorrect, feel free to correct it by replacing what was incorrect with what is accurate.


I'm going to follow a very simple format. Feel free to use the same format and add what you remember about classes during Velious either regarding the spells they gained or their experiences soloing/dpsing/raiding. I will not have much to contribute outside of spell benefits in regards to classes beyond the Shaman, due to that being my main throughout my EQ experience.




Bard: The Good - Gained a haste that was stack-able with Enchanter haste, making Monks and Rogues jizz'm in their pantaloons, that much more over their dps. Also gained an unresistable debuff that lowered resists by a small amount, allowing other support to more easily land their debuffs. Still highly desired in groups due to the large amounts of resists / general stacking buffs they add to a group. Still capable of soloing very well in wide open areas.

The Bad - Still add no real personal DPS to a group/raid as they did not gain the ability to double attack until in PoP (something I did not remember until research). However, see "The Good" above.


Cleric: The Good - Still the best healers in the game. Also gained the best hit point buff hands down. 1100 hp + AC is something Clerics will be driven to the brink of madness by, due to the mana cost & how many group members will request this buff.

The Bad - No MGB AA for Aegolism.


Druid: The Good - Now more viable in a group due to a new heal they receive. In Velious, Druids really fill their own niche becoming a pseudo Cleric/Wizard combo. They also get a new fantastic buff that also adds mana regeneration. They get a new quick cast, somewhat efficient heal. They also get to summon a bear pet! Disregard the fact that he is useless.

The Bad - Soloing changes a bit for Druids due to the high MR of the typical Velious mob (this will be a very slight if even noticeable change). I had to put SOMETHING here right?


Enchanter: The Good - They get to turn someone into a wearwolf...WITH a lifetap proc! Also get a max mana/mana regen buff. Even more spells to bug the hell out of your local Enchanter for!

The Bad - I had a real life friend who played a 60 Enchanter during Velious, so limited viewpoint here but; still extremely boring to play in a raid. I'm not sure how much their amazing solo capability changes during Velious but I imagine it will be impacted some, even if very slightly.


Magician: The Good - Magicians gain the ability to summon a random NPC monster in the zone as their pet. I remember enjoying this very much, even as a Shaman. It changed things up quite a bit. They also gained a new DD/dot spell. I believe they are still capable of doing some decent solo but don't quote me on this.

The Bad - High MR targets are going to make Magicians pull their hair out. At least if you have your epic, you'll likely out DPS or match the DPS of a Wizard on certain raid targets!


Monk: The Good - Even more uber lewtz (much more friendly to Monks) will drop in Velious, allowing them to take over the role of totally and burly bad ass tank during this expansion (on most bosses). Their DPS will also increase. These guys are simply bad ass during Velious. With the obvious favoritism towards melees that Variant had, the weaponry and gear you will be swimming through may seemingly be endless. Monks easily and justifiably fill 3 roles in a group during Velious; DPS, Tank & Stand There and Look Sexy. If you haven't rolled a Monk alt yet, now is the time to do so.

The Bad: Hmm. I'm struggling for something here. The pain of going through the Coldain ring faction grind/quest? That's all I've got.


Necromancer: The Good - A new mana regen that will allow them to twitch faster than ever before! Also a new pet buff for the spec. Necros can (if a single one is dedicated) seriously pump out the DPS in Velious. On Bristlebane (Arch Overseers) our raid had a dedicated Necro who could compete with Rogues/Monks and still maintain twitching the Clerics/spot healing. Still a strong class during Velious.

The Bad - Necros also have to deal with the woes of high MR mobs in Velious.


Paladin: The Good - Still a solid tank during Velious. One of the favored tanks in groups due to snap aggro / group support. They get a HP buff that stacks with any other HP buff iirc along with a nice group heal (for even more aggro generation).

The Bad - They still suffer from the hybrid EXP penalty, thus we will likely see very few high level Paladins during this expansion as well. They also are not favored as main tanks unless absolutely necessary, during Velious due to Warriors still being the kings of HP/AC.


Ranger: The Good - Nothing really changes much for Rangers iirc, during Velious. I believe I remember seeing them cast an additional buff on a frequent basis that added the chance to proc a DD. They also gained a small bit of utility by gaining a nice group buff that adds +attack.

The Bad - You're still a Ranger (kidding <3).


Rogue: The Good - Still the kings of overall sustained DPS. The plethora of weaponry you get to choose from during this expansion will make you want to steal your grandmas coin-purse. Prepare to see all new, all time highest back-stabs for ridiculous amounts of damage. If you're extremely lucky or if you've got your tongue in-betwixt your guild leaders gluteus-maximus cheeks, or are extremely rich, you may end up with one of the most desired masks leading up to and during this expansion.

The Bad - Still completely reliant on groups / current server population. You will still have nights of sitting in EC /lfg for 6 hours. No, don't even try to solo that green.


Shadow Knights: The Good - In the same boat as Paladin but maybe slightly better off due to their primary snap aggro spell being diseased based. No group heals here but they do get a self buff proc that is a lifetap (iirc also nice for aggro).

The Bad - A lot of your aggro abilities will suffer the same fate of classes that rely primarily on magic based attacks. I don't recall this being a huge issue in groups but I'm trying to avoid leaving this area blank! Also suffer greatly due to the hybrid exp penalty.


Shamans: The Good - Druids, you get to SUMMON a bear, Shamans get to turn into one! A self regen/wisdom buff that stacks with everything. Shamans also get a single target buff that not only applies their hit-point & strength buffs but their dexterity buff as well. This opens 2 extra slots for additional buffs which should benefit overall raid composition buff wise. Shamans, like Enchanters, typically maintain their solo capability (one of the few classes with the ability to solo wurms, so I've been told). They also get a new avatar that does not require a component. Time to make some Monks/Rogues you total abiding slaves *at least until they get primal weaponry*. IIRC, Shamans during Velious took on specific debuffing roles. One would be in charge of MALO, another of SLOW, etc. Obviously, one of these roles should and can be filled by a Magician to allow at least one Shaman 100% dedicated to raid healing (this may be the case on P99 now, my raid experience here is very limited, however, it's much more pertinent during Velious with raid bosses not being capped at 32k...). I remember being considered the 2nd best healing class in Velious, even over Druids with their new heal, due to the overall sustain that a Shaman still maintains during Velious (much higher throughput due to Canni).

The Bad - Also facing the MR woes during Velious. No diseased based slow introduced during Velious. Still the slow kings due to their slow reducing attack speed by an additional 5% over their Enchanter counterparts...if you can get it to land, that is.


Warrior: The Good - Still the undisputed MT of major raid targets. Highest hit-points, highest AC. Fairly obvious here. Also have a nice array of weapons to choose from that help close the gap on threat generation (nice procs) while simultaneously boosting your DPS (see AoW) whereas currently, to maintain good threat, you generally have shit dps (proc reliant).

The Bad - Unless in a top raiding guild (and geared...), groups will still value Paladins/SK's over you, as a tank.


Wizard: The Good - Lure spells are introduced to help you combat the insane MR of raid targets in Velious. Wizards maintain their specialty role of burning targets at 30% or so, being unmatched in DPS those last percentages of a raid mobs health. I recall Wizards being the raid heroes during some of the Velious era boss fights because of their ability to pull off a last second burnout to kill the raid mob with 8-10 people still standing. In a group setting, Ice Spear of Solist is simply amazing due to it's mana/damage ratio. Wizards, in my opinion, gain a great deal of grouping utility in Velious due to obtaining this one spell. You get translocate spells! Prepare to be bombarded with tells for people asking to be translocated. Also be prepared to pocket the tip money too! No more zoning over with your compatriots to bring them to the zones of their desire. Simply point at them and POOF, off they go.

The Bad - Outside of lure spells, Wizards are hit extremely hard in Velious. Get used to the fact (if you're not already) that a large percentage of your nukes will be resisted, in most cases, outright resisted. Also be prepared to spend an additional 5 minutes medding (on top of the 15 minutes already) to reach a full mana bar from OOM. With the newly introduced caster equipment, your mana pool should be huge and thus your time spent sitting will be even more huge, to compensate!


That's what I've got to add! It may not be 100% accurate and it may not be the most lucrative and educational amount of information on the classes during the era of Velious, but it's a start and I'm hoping others on P99 will contribute. To be honest, I don't remember much about Velious. I was 13-14 at the time. I am now 28. I've since then, jammed my brain with memories of DAoC, Warhammer (lol?), WoW, EQ2 and other small time MMOs.

Thanks for reading and if you contribute, THANK YOU again. I want to remember everything there was to know about the classes during Velious and with all of the great EQ players on P99, I'm sure we can narrow down all of the information very closely to how they were during live EQ Velious.

The bard overhaste was not cap breaking, anyone with a 36 / 41 haste item will not notice this. That said, the resist songs become even more valuable.

Healing in velious simply isn't possible w/o clerics due to the hilarious damage output increases and mob hp increases.

Most expansions were shitty for druids until GoD? I think. The class never really fleshed out well in a group situation, BUT, in PoP they received a group heal which could be MGB'd, huge for large aoe situations.

Enchanter buffs always nice, but it's a 1-2 man job. Not much was CC'able, but for a time when the kael arena giants were charmable, they were one of the only ways to do AoW.

Magician's role remains the same, overall dps gets worse when casting on velious mobs w/o banes, lures, become near impossible in a dps situation.

The highest point in a monk's career. Weapons get considerable damage / delay increases (for those not having wu's fists). AC on items also get off the chain and soft cap is quite high pre luclin nerf, again, great time to be a monk.

Necromancers maintain the same roles as before, though mana pumping becomes considerably more valuable as the fights are much longer than kunark (32k to 1mil, lol).

Paladin gets melee/defensive caps of warriors, making them excellent trash tanks. Paladins also receive brells (excellent stacking hp) and a group heal which makes them fairly alright to put in melee groups simply as a group healer, they become somewhat of a makeshift cleric on aoe fights. I should also say that this is the era when pal / sk mana should rise dramatically (their wis/int benefit), but p99 has had that code in since launch so it's a non-change here.

Ranger--tracking becomes even more valuable (can peak into north from ent of tov, can check nameds in SG, find vaniki / zlandi from zone in, etc). DPS becomes third best behind rogue / monk with the introduction of jolt (threat ceiling mattered immensely on live, we'll see how it goes here). Not a bad ranger era, but it's no luclin.

Rogue--best dps, and remain that way until at least GoD. That's what rogues do o_O

SK--trash tanks, AC / threat transfer not in until luclin, still remain excellent pullers, although so many things see through invis in velious raid zones that COS loses some of its luster.

Shm--best buffs, can put on pretty alright damage with their excellent mana regen. Versatile spothealers.

Warrior--/disc defensive becomes mandatory for the upper 25% of fights or so. Threat weapons become much more valuable to quickly increase threat ceiling and prevent dps throttling on longer fights. Makes me wonder if on p99 we'll have mid combat trading of mallets and pump 15-20 charges into AoW, heh.

Wizards--are...okay. The fights just become entirely too long with the mana efficiency of wizard nukes. It actually becomes viable to have 3 separate wizards and log on a new one when the previous one runs out of mana. At the very least at least bane spells allow for decent damage nukes on giants / dragons without getting the mediocre ratios of lures.

Arrisard
11-09-2012, 02:39 PM
Paladin group heals don't get worthwhile until Prexus. Wave of Healing is like 200 hp with a 60 second recast. Divine Strength (BSS is PoP) is cool and useful, but you only need 1 or 2 paladins to DS an entire raid and it isn't as much HP as BSS. Celestial Cleansing is pretty solid though.

Don't get me wrong, a good off tank is still useful, but paladins really don't get turned around as a class until Luclin and really come into their own in PoP.

HeallunRumblebelly
11-09-2012, 03:13 PM
Paladin group heals don't get worthwhile until Prexus. Wave of Healing is like 200 hp with a 60 second recast. Divine Strength (BSS is PoP) is cool and useful, but you only need 1 or 2 paladins to DS an entire raid and it isn't as much HP as BSS. Celestial Cleansing is pretty solid though.

Don't get me wrong, a good off tank is still useful, but paladins really don't get turned around as a class until Luclin and really come into their own in PoP.

:| unfortunate. Did not know the recast on their group heal was that bad. Well I mean, at least the expectations weren't that high at least? heh.

Alarti0001
11-09-2012, 03:27 PM
Pssh with PoTG, crack, a manarobe, and an epic. Plus the great mana efficiency of the bane spells Wizards were top DPS only behind monks(if they were good wizards).

Splorf22
11-09-2012, 03:42 PM
Pssh with PoTG, crack, a manarobe, and an epic. Plus the great mana efficiency of the bane spells Wizards were top DPS only behind monks(if they were good wizards).

Hmm let's see. PoTG is 6 mana/tick, C2 is 11, epic is 3, we'll assume FT 3. So total that's 23. The wizard casts the epic (15 seconds) then does sit/mana robe dancing for 13 ticks then casts two bane spells (15 seconds).

So we have 5 ticks of 23 while casting and 13 ticks of 23+21+20 = 64 for a total mana gain of 947 and an output of 800. We'll ignore the 1/3 of a bane spell for now, so 947*5 = 4735 damage every 18 ticks, which averages out to 43 dps sustained. Which is really not bad but definitely behind all pure melee. Of course the wizard also has ~15k damage from his initial manapool. If we assume a 15 minute fight, that's another 16 dps bringing the total to about 60, which is definitely behind rogues and monks, probably about the same as warriors or rangers, but ahead of everyone else. Unless I made a math error somewhere.

HeallunRumblebelly
11-09-2012, 03:52 PM
Hmm let's see. PoTG is 6 mana/tick, C2 is 11, epic is 3, we'll assume FT 3. So total that's 23. The wizard casts the epic (15 seconds) then does sit/mana robe dancing for 13 ticks then casts two bane spells (15 seconds).

So we have 5 ticks of 23 while casting and 13 ticks of 23+21+20 = 64 for a total mana gain of 947 and an output of 800. We'll ignore the 1/3 of a bane spell for now, so 947*5 = 4735 damage every 18 ticks, which averages out to 43 dps sustained. Which is really not bad but definitely behind all pure melee. Of course the wizard also has ~15k damage from his initial manapool. If we assume a 15 minute fight, that's another 16 dps bringing the total to about 60, which is definitely behind rogues and monks, probably about the same as warriors or rangers, but ahead of everyone else. Unless I made a math error somewhere.

I uh, 15 minute fights were quite rare, even in velious. Might wanna knock that down to 10, even for the hard stuff.

(1,000,000 hp mob, 20 dps @ 100 dps = 2000 dps (on the low side, but w/e) 1m / 2k = 500, 500/60 = 8.3 min fight, which again, was honestly on the long side. Had to have a tight and massive chain to sustain high end mob damage for 8.3 minutes. Big fights here will most likely be closer to the 5 minute range, which does put wizards slightly up, but monk / rogue damage just got full on retarded in velious thanks to stat capping on base gear, avatar on offhands (+100 atk), and vengeance 30 (+150 atk, aura of battle being veng2) actually becoming somewhat feasible.

Alarti0001
11-09-2012, 04:00 PM
Hmm let's see. PoTG is 6 mana/tick, C2 is 11, epic is 3, we'll assume FT 3. So total that's 23. The wizard casts the epic (15 seconds) then does sit/mana robe dancing for 13 ticks then casts two bane spells (15 seconds).

So we have 5 ticks of 23 while casting and 13 ticks of 23+21+20 = 64 for a total mana gain of 947 and an output of 800. We'll ignore the 1/3 of a bane spell for now, so 947*5 = 4735 damage every 18 ticks, which averages out to 43 dps sustained. Which is really not bad but definitely behind all pure melee. Of course the wizard also has ~15k damage from his initial manapool. If we assume a 15 minute fight, that's another 16 dps bringing the total to about 60, which is definitely behind rogues and monks, probably about the same as warriors or rangers, but ahead of everyone else. Unless I made a math error somewhere.

You are forgetting harvest, you are calculating damage based on Kunark gear mana. (Will be more like 20k dmg with a decent geared wizard,not max geared at all) Clicking epic is only for the regen when you are low as you can use a quick torpor to regen(oh ya and you arent counting regen). You assume max DPS on melee, and you aren't factoring aggro mechanics in velious and the importance of keeping it on the main tank. Monks/Rogues can go full out now as a baddie has a max of 32khp and about 5-20 seconds of lifespan.

Tecmos Deception
11-09-2012, 04:01 PM
Pssh with PoTG, crack, a manarobe, and an epic. Plus the great mana efficiency of the bane spells Wizards were top DPS only behind monks(if they were good wizards).

Is this all right? I've never played a wiz:


Assuming medding half of the ticks in combat (we'll just call it 10/tick over time), clarity 2 (12), potg (6), cantata (12?), epic (3?), and some FT (5, just for kicks), you're looking at, we'll call it 50 mana regen per tick. JUST casting a bane spell every 2 ticks costs 225 mana per tick.

So with a 3500 mana pool (low for velious? I don't know), you're going to be able to do ~170 dps for ~2 minutes before you drop to maybe 50 dps for the rest of the fight.

You can do more DPS, maybe 75-100 more, by casting another spell while bane is on cooldown and by not getting any med ticks sitting, but then you'll only be able to sustain that level for a minute or so before you're oom and having to wait for regen to cast more.


How long do velious fights last? A fight would only need to last like 3 minutes before rogues and monks are doing more over the whole duration than a wizard, based on this. Plus not everything can be baned. And wizards have burst potential if needed at a certain point, but so do rogues/monks, albeit only once every half hour.

If you mess around using a mana robe to eat epic buff you will be dropping below that ~170 dps because you're probably casting then sitting for a tick every time you want to do it. So you're gaining ~30-40 mana every time you do that but losing 6 seconds of DPS. Get caught in an ae or two and you lose your 3 regen buff and would have to spend 15 seconds recasting epic if you wanted it back up, right?


If this math is wrong, please do correct me. Are rogues doing under 130 dps with velious weapons? Are fights lasting only 90 seconds? Are you basing "wizards do the most damage" off of being twitched or having multiple bards twisting mana for you? How much do melee have to hold back from all-out DPS? ?

Alarti0001
11-09-2012, 04:02 PM
I uh, 15 minute fights were quite rare, even in velious. Might wanna knock that down to 10, even for the hard stuff.

(1,000,000 hp mob, 20 dps @ 100 dps = 2000 dps (on the low side, but w/e) 1m / 2k = 500, 500/60 = 8.3 min fight, which again, was honestly on the long side. Had to have a tight and massive chain to sustain high end mob damage for 8.3 minutes. Big fights here will most likely be closer to the 5 minute range, which does put wizards slightly up, but monk / rogue damage just got full on retarded in velious thanks to stat capping on base gear, avatar on offhands (+100 atk), and vengeance 30 (+150 atk, aura of battle being veng2) actually becoming somewhat feasible.

Its true a good monk was the king of velious, but good wizards consistently out dps'd rogues in velious(Not by huge amounts). Best wizard ever and Best rogue ever, I'm not sure how that would turn out. But, TMO had no shortage of good wizards on live.

Alarti0001
11-09-2012, 04:05 PM
Is this all right? I've never played a wiz:


Assuming medding half of the ticks in combat (we'll just call it 10/tick over time), clarity 2 (12), potg (6), cantata (12?), epic (3?), and some FT (5, just for kicks), you're looking at, we'll call it 50 mana regen per tick. JUST casting a bane spell every 2 ticks costs 225 mana per tick.

So with a 3500 mana pool (low for velious? I don't know), you're going to be able to do ~170 dps for ~2 minutes before you drop to maybe 50 dps for the rest of the fight.

You can do more DPS, maybe 75-100 more, by casting another spell while bane is on cooldown and by not getting any med ticks sitting, but then you'll only be able to sustain that level for a minute or so before you're oom and having to wait for regen to cast more.


How long do velious fights last? A fight would only need to last like 3 minutes before rogues and monks are doing more over the whole duration than a wizard, based on this. Plus not everything can be baned. And wizards have burst potential if needed at a certain point, but so do rogues/monks, albeit only once every half hour.

If you mess around using a mana robe to eat epic buff you will be dropping below that ~170 dps because you're probably casting then sitting for a tick every time you want to do it. So you're gaining ~30-40 mana every time you do that but losing 6 seconds of DPS. Get caught in an ae or two and you lose your 3 regen buff and would have to spend 15 seconds recasting epic if you wanted it back up, right?


If this math is wrong, please do correct me. Are rogues doing under 130 dps with velious weapons? Are fights lasting only 90 seconds? Are you basing "wizards do the most damage" off of being twitched or having multiple bards twisting mana for you? Or what?

You are looking at a one-sided picture. Factor in aggro. Velious isnt like kunark where if your main tank dies, oh well the mob is only alive for 3 more seconds anyways.

Splorf22
11-09-2012, 04:12 PM
vengeance 30? I thought the aura of battle was like 20 atk?

Anyway if we half the duration to 7.5 then wizards could maybe hit 70-75 dps. I would guess that would beat out most warriors and rangers by just a bit.

Tecmos Deception
11-09-2012, 04:12 PM
Ok. So factor in aggro for me. Like I said, I've never played a wizard, and I've never raided in velious, and I've never raided with a rogue.

Why in the world would everyone (EVERYONE) talk nonstop about how awesome melee DPS, especially rogues and monks, are in Velious if they only can do 70 DPS over the course of a fight because more than that gets them killed?

Alarti0001
11-09-2012, 04:18 PM
Ok. So factor in aggro for me. Like I said, I've never played a wizard, and I've never raided in velious, and I've never raided with a rogue.

Why in the world would everyone (EVERYONE) talk nonstop about how awesome melee DPS, especially rogues and monks, are in Velious if they only can do 70 DPS over the course of a fight because more than that gets them killed?

Because Rogues and Monks are AWESOME dps in velious? Ill do a little work for you. Lets say there are 4 wizards at a raid... no one dies at this raid over the course of a moderately gears mana bar w/out regen those 4 wizards will do about 88k damage, assuming a giant or a dragon and not AoW(immune to giants bane). That is a rather large chunk out of a baddies health. Factor in the rest of the raids dps.

Lets say you have 4 monks(only) and 4 rogues at this same raid and for the sake of shits lets say they do 100dps a pop, there is another 96k dmg not even factoring in rangers/mages/pets/warriors/sks/bards(lol)/ druids/necros etc. Right now in the first 2 mins of a fight we have 184k HP down to 12 dps classes. Lets be super light and say the rest of the raid did 100k damage. 284k down--2 mins... any questions?

Of course this would only happen on a static fight if the boss was a "practice dummy". Wizards are less prone to rampage, prox aggro, and have a nifty concussion which decreases our threat for minimial time/mana

Splorf22
11-09-2012, 04:28 PM
Looks like you finally lost it Alarti MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:p

Alarti0001
11-09-2012, 04:38 PM
Looks like you finally lost it Alarti MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:p

hmm>?

Splorf22
11-09-2012, 05:01 PM
Well you edited out your empty post.

Alarti0001
11-09-2012, 05:02 PM
Well you edited out your empty post.

I clicked enter early so sue me! Also, working so cant spend to much time with you!

Tecmos Deception
11-09-2012, 05:36 PM
Lets say there are 4 wizards at a raid... no one dies at this raid over the course of a moderately gears mana bar w/out regen those 4 wizards will do about 88k damage, assuming a giant or a dragon and not AoW(immune to giants bane). That is a rather large chunk out of a baddies health. Factor in the rest of the raids dps.

Lets say you have 4 monks(only) and 4 rogues at this same raid and for the sake of shits lets say they do 100dps a pop, there is another 96k dmg not even factoring in rangers/mages/pets/warriors/sks/bards(lol)/ druids/necros etc. Right now in the first 2 mins of a fight we have 184k HP down to 12 dps classes. Lets be super light and say the rest of the raid did 100k damage. 284k down--2 mins... any questions?

Of course this would only happen on a static fight if the boss was a "practice dummy". Wizards are less prone to rampage, prox aggro, and have a nifty concussion which decreases our threat for minimial time/mana

This has got to be the worst way ever of discussing a damage comparison between wizards and rogues/monks.


A moderately-geared, Velious wizard has ~5000 mana? They cast nothing but banes in fights when they can? They don't do anything (sitting, clicking epic, mana robing?) apart from standing still and casting banes? This never pulls aggro? Velious fights only last 2 minutes? Why are monks/rogues only doing 100 dps? Is that all they do, sustained, with Velious gear? How do FD and evade function on bosses in Velious?

You don't have to answer my questions if you don't want to, but I did mention that I don't know shit about Velious raids and that is why I wanted you to elaborate. You didn't, though. You just did part of a comparison in a bassackwards way, as far as I can tell.

Handull
11-09-2012, 05:41 PM
in velious monks out dps rogues? never played past kunark, but wouldn't have expected that if its the case

Tecmos Deception
11-09-2012, 06:04 PM
The key issues, as I can see it, when comparing a wizard to a melee DPS, are:

1. fight length,
2. aggro issues, and
3. potential mana regen.

And I don't know about any of those. QQ. I hate being ignorant.

Splorf22
11-09-2012, 06:08 PM
in velious monks out dps rogues? never played past kunark, but wouldn't have expected that if its the case

The thing about Velious IIRC is that the damage of weapons doesn't go up, the delay goes down. So rogue backstab stays the same while monks get like I think 15/18 or something ridiculous for fists. Dunno if that actually pushes them over the edge but Velious is the expansion where monks just get ridiculous.

Alarti0001
11-09-2012, 06:23 PM
This has got to be the worst way ever of discussing a damage comparison between wizards and rogues/monks.


A moderately-geared, Velious wizard has ~5000 mana? They cast nothing but banes in fights when they can? They don't do anything (sitting, clicking epic, mana robing?) apart from standing still and casting banes? This never pulls aggro? Velious fights only last 2 minutes? Why are monks/rogues only doing 100 dps? Is that all they do, sustained, with Velious gear? How do FD and evade function on bosses in Velious?

You don't have to answer my questions if you don't want to, but I did mention that I don't know shit about Velious raids and that is why I wanted you to elaborate. You didn't, though. You just did part of a comparison in a bassackwards way, as far as I can tell.


I have 3600 mana right now without the best kunark gear and 3900 effective mana with harvest. Also you rounded up by 200 mana i did those numbers based on 4800 effective mana. So a net gain of 900 mana on an int caster isnt too far fetched especially considering the itemization love we finally get in velious.

I explained it in a baseline setting aggro removed. You know... kind of how monk/rog dps was explained earlier in this thread?
I put monk/rogues at 100dps as a controlled variable, considering a bane spells effective dps is 181. The intent was not to compare DPS as no class can compare to a wizards 181 burst dps. The intent was to show how quickly damage can be done on 1 full manaburn. Obviously, the total damage output from a raid will be alot higher then I presented, 100khp total from everyone in the raid but 12 people? I am severely underselling the DPS presented by Necros/Mages/Warriors etc here.

According to ZAM (correct me if its incorrect) Yelinak has 350khp, Eashen has 81k, Aary has 410khp, Tormie has 500k, Feshlak has 280k hp.
These mobs, with a 12 man dps team doing max(presented) dps without aggro or anything included, would last roughly 3mins 50 seconds at the longest for Tormax. So if we were this low on dps a wizard would still do 91 sustained dps without ANY mana regen whatsoever, no clickie nukes, nothing.

But to project real dps without explaining all the variables is asinine. The evidence is in parses from the past. There is no way to effectively explain away a raid encounter with theorycraft. Aggro, Tanks, Flurries, AoE's, are too powerful of variables to explain away.

Monks were top DPS consistently, FD + great itemization made them untouchable. Wizards were consistently fighting for second place with rogues. Depending on the fight, some of the longer ones or the ones where bane doesnt work.. Tunark, AoW, Statue? we obviously fell behind. This was also when we had smaller raid team. Nowadays with huge raid teams that were required on this server with the variance policy I expect mobs to die much faster. Obviously, we will have more than 4 wizards, or 4 rogues, or 4 monks on a DPS team.

Also, yes a wizard should only be using Bane spells on bosses it hits; it is the most effective use of mana.

Splorf22
11-09-2012, 06:24 PM
All of these from Vulak. And this isn't live - P1999 is going to unleash 200+ people on NToV on the first day with trak bps, epics, vp gear, full sky gear, etc. Not to mention that everyone knows the strats already. So I'm guess NToV will be on farm status within a week.

Gharn's Rock of Smashing
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE PLACEABLE
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: Hand to Hand Atk Delay: 19
DMG: 16 Dmg Bonus: 23
This item is placeable in yards and houses.
STR: +7 DEX: +7 STA: +25 AGI: +7 HP: +100
SV FIRE: +10 SV DISEASE: +7 SV COLD: +10 SV MAGIC: +10 SV POISON: +7
Required level of 55.
Effect: Strike of the Chosen (Combat, Casting Time: Instant)
WT: 0.5 Size: TINY
Class: MNK BST
Race: HUM BAR TRL OGR IKS VAH DRK

Brother Xave's Headband
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE
Slot: HEAD
AC: 45
STR: +15 DEX: +10 STA: +10 AGI: +10 HP: +75
SV FIRE: +15 SV DISEASE: +15 SV COLD: +15 SV MAGIC: +15 SV POISON: +15
Haste: +41%
WT: 0.0 Size: TINY
Class: MNK
Race: HUM IKS DRK

Mrylokar's Dagger of Vengeance
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE PLACEABLE
Slot: RANGE PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: Piercing Atk Delay: 19
DMG: 15 Dmg Bonus: 23 AC: 15
Backstab DMG: 15
This item is placeable in yards and houses.
Skill Mod: Backstab +12% (34 Max)
STR: +15 DEX: +10 STA: +5 AGI: +10 HP: +100
SV FIRE: +10 SV DISEASE: +10 SV COLD: +10 SV MAGIC: +10 SV POISON: +10
Required level of 55.
Effect: Feast of Blood (Combat, Casting Time: Instant)
WT: 1.0 Size: TINY
Class: ROG
Race: ALL

MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE PLACEABLE
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: 1H Slashing Atk Delay: 19
DMG: 14 Dmg Bonus: 23
This item is placeable in yards and houses.
STR: +15 STA: +25 HP: +100
SV FIRE: +10 SV DISEASE: +10 SV COLD: +10 SV MAGIC: +10 SV POISON: +10
Effect: Strike of the Chosen (Combat, Casting Time: Instant)
WT: 1.0 Size: TINY
Class: WAR
Race: ALL

HeallunRumblebelly
11-09-2012, 06:51 PM
Because Rogues and Monks are AWESOME dps in velious? Ill do a little work for you. Lets say there are 4 wizards at a raid... no one dies at this raid over the course of a moderately gears mana bar w/out regen those 4 wizards will do about 88k damage, assuming a giant or a dragon and not AoW(immune to giants bane). That is a rather large chunk out of a baddies health. Factor in the rest of the raids dps.

Lets say you have 4 monks(only) and 4 rogues at this same raid and for the sake of shits lets say they do 100dps a pop, there is another 96k dmg not even factoring in rangers/mages/pets/warriors/sks/bards(lol)/ druids/necros etc. Right now in the first 2 mins of a fight we have 184k HP down to 12 dps classes. Lets be super light and say the rest of the raid did 100k damage. 284k down--2 mins... any questions?

Of course this would only happen on a static fight if the boss was a "practice dummy". Wizards are less prone to rampage, prox aggro, and have a nifty concussion which decreases our threat for minimial time/mana

Again, having multiple wizards to play (/q wizard 1, log on wizard 2) is an enormous increase in damage. When wizard 2 logs on, he cares not for threat ceiling, he just burns his wad and /q's to wizard 3. No epic clicking, no med ticking, just spam casting and switching chars.

edit: If threat ceiling is of no consequence, one can also spam nukes til oom then /q to rogue or monk for more sustained, less burst. IP exempts need to be given to all because as it stands, many simply use these for fast char swaps rather than playing with friends.

Versus
11-09-2012, 07:08 PM
;) Do want.

Ele
11-09-2012, 07:21 PM
All of these from Vulak. And this isn't live - P1999 is going to unleash 200+ people on NToV on the first day with trak bps, epics, vp gear, full sky gear, etc. Not to mention that everyone knows the strats already. So I'm guess NToV will be on farm status within a week.

I agree with this sentiment that the bosses around Velious will be taken down in rather quick succession here, due to the amount of itemization and relatively large amount of Donal's BPs running around in pre-nerf status. Some servers were barely breaking into VP when Velious came out and newly discovered (or publicized) items were coming out of VP for a few months after Velious dropped. Most people were not level 60 when Velious dropped and few had full resist gear sets.

If variance is maintained into Velious, Vulak could be a rather interesting encounter requiring a semi-permanent presence to maintain NToV on a cleared status after a few rounds of spawns being broken up and preventing a single or multi-day NToV crawl.


Gharn's Rock of Smashing


Was originally 6/13, maybe more awesome.

Alarti0001
11-09-2012, 07:24 PM
Again, having multiple wizards to play (/q wizard 1, log on wizard 2) is an enormous increase in damage. When wizard 2 logs on, he cares not for threat ceiling, he just burns his wad and /q's to wizard 3. No epic clicking, no med ticking, just spam casting and switching chars.

edit: If threat ceiling is of no consequence, one can also spam nukes til oom then /q to rogue or monk for more sustained, less burst. IP exempts need to be given to all because as it stands, many simply use these for fast char swaps rather than playing with friends.

Obviously this would be awesome haha.

@Loraen yes we will def be in NToV quickly, I dont see us killing the big dragons immediately but Eashen and Flurry drakes will definitely be dying.

Netherzul
11-09-2012, 09:08 PM
Thanks for all of the replies!

If anyone remembers anything outside of Wizards, please feel free to elaborate more here...lol

Alarti0001
11-09-2012, 09:31 PM
Thanks for all of the replies!

If anyone remembers anything outside of Wizards, please feel free to elaborate more here...lol

Shamans are God mode. SK's too