Red and blue should be merged into one PvP server

[ForeverLost]

I'm of course not expecting anything like this to happen, but that doesn't mean it's not worth discussing. It's my opinion that PvP made EQ a much, much better game. I wish more of you could have experienced it on live. That's really why Red99 has such a poor population: you don't know what you're missing. It would have been wonderful if the dev team here had played the Zek servers, and made PvP a priority when making their classic server.

After the merge, even once the unadventurous bluebies quit, we would have a healthy population of 400+. And that would be much preferred over what we have now :)

[August]

So basically you want to take the wants of the relatively few pvpers on red and enforce them on other people, knowing full well you would destroy the experience for at least half the playerbase here while simultaneously destroying the high numbers we currently have logging in every night?

Excellent topic. Discuss further! I'm sure there are so many facets and points here that are rife with quality material that won't devolve into a flames and rants-esque type thread.

Cheerio,

Tomtee

[ForeverLost]

So basically you want to take the wants of the relatively few pvpers on red and enforce them on other people, knowing full well you would destroy the experience for at least half the playerbase here while simultaneously destroying the high numbers we currently have logging in every night?

Not at all, no. I would want people to give PvP a try, so that they could discover how much more interesting and fun the game becomes. Currently, that's not really possible with the low population on red.

[Nordenwatch]

No

[Urbanzkopf]

make a server and copy everyones blue characters on it in their current state, optional if you log in and let people see what blue's current pop would be like in a free-for-all world! (obviously keepin blue server, noway you bros are gonna kill that )

[ForeverLost]

Well, why do you enjoy EQ? If it's just the leveling and raiding, then I can understand people not wanting this. But I like the community, and other social aspects. PvP made those parts of the game more involved and entertaining.

[Lostprophets]

Not at all, no. I would want people to give PvP a try, so that they could discover how much more interesting and fun the game becomes. Currently, that's not really possible with the low population on red.

then goto red.

There's a reason why Blues population quadruples Reds...EQ PvP sucks more than a Hoover vacuum.

If they merged, it'd turn into another PVP Ghost town. all the Blue people would quit and be looking for another blue server...leaving you with 20 people online unless Nilly bat phones out for a dragon, spanks it then it's 20 people online again.

[ForeverLost]

then goto red.

There's a reason why Blues population quadruples Reds...EQ PvP sucks more than a Hoover vacuum.

If they merged, it'd turn into another PVP Ghost town. all the Blue people would quit and be looking for another blue server...leaving you with 20 people online unless Nilly bat phones out for a dragon, spanks it then it's 20 people online again.

I think the reason blue has a higher population is that not enough people played PvP back on live. Even the people that started on a Zek server as complete MMO noobs and didn't know what PvP meant agree that it is a much better experience.

Friendships meant more, rivalries were able to be played out, and raids were actually contested instead of bickered over. I miss it so much :(

Going to red is not really an option, as that server really is dead. It's unfortunate that blue came out first.

[Thulack]

You do realize that some people play MMORPG and don't enjoy PvP in any game? Honestly the community aspect and gameplay of a MMORPG is what draws me to play them not PvP aspect or storyline/lore of a game.

[ForeverLost]

You do realize that some people play MMORPG and don't enjoy PvP in any game? Honestly the community aspect and gameplay of a MMORPG is what draws me to play them not PvP aspect or storyline/lore of a game.

Same here, about the community aspects! PvP really makes this part of the game that much better :)

Making friends is really what MMOs should be about, and PvP gives you the best reason in the world to make them: real adversity. Playing on blue feels a little shallow to me. Where is the social meaning?

[Graahle]

Red99 on the rise. Triple digit population every night. While that may seem laughable to Blue, stop and think where Red was not too long ago.

[Slave]

I played on Rallos Zek and Sullon Zek. Please tell me which Live server Red 99 represents? You can't, because there is no item loot and no teams. So what it comes down to is one giant ARAC guild dominating everything. Boring, and not Classic. I am exactly the target demographic, and the server completely fails for me. There was no reason to ever launch it without hardcoded teams.

[ForeverLost]

My time on live EQ was honestly the most enjoyable gaming experience of my life, and it was because I actually was a part of something. Guilds fought for control of the server. Alliances were made, and broken. The game, and the other players, made you feel things.

I remember very late into my EQ career, there was a raiding guild (Zephyros) that had been allied with the top guild on the server (Defiant), and most of the rest of us felt that Zephyros had only made their way to where they were because they didn't have to fight Defiant, or most of the server. Zephyros was in the elemental planes, and preparing to engage Fennin Ro for the first time, when Defiant zones in and tells them that they are going to take Fennin. They could have maintained their alliance by allowing Defiant to have him, but instead they stood their ground and fought. Alliance shattered, the two guilds now KoS.

I never again called a Zephyros member a bluebie.

Do alliances and rivalries exist here? I see screenshots of people sitting on raid spawn locations, but I don't see much social activity.

[fadetree]

I like PvP a lot. But not EQ PvP. Yes, I tried it. Not to be insulting, but who cares how you feel about it? That has nothing to do with how other people feel about it, and frankly the vote's been taken a long time ago. Red lost.

[Hailto]

I'm of course not expecting anything like this to happen, but that doesn't mean it's not worth discussing. It's my opinion that PvP made EQ a much, much better game. I wish more of you could have experienced it on live. That's really why Red99 has such a poor population: you don't know what you're missing. It would have been wonderful if the dev team here had played the Zek servers, and made PvP a priority when making their classic server.

After the merge, even once the unadventurous bluebies quit, we would have a healthy population of 400+. And that would be much preferred over what we have now :)

tl;dr: My server is failing, an average of 60 people play my server at any time, its obvious people don't want to play pvp here, but lets force it on all of you anyway so we can kill this server too. No thanks.

[ForeverLost]

I played on Rallos Zek and Sullon Zek. Please tell me which Live server Red 99 represents? You can't, because there is no item loot and no teams. So what it comes down to is one giant ARAC guild dominating everything. Boring, and not Classic. I am exactly the target demographic, and the server completely fails for me. There was no reason to ever launch it without hardcoded teams.

You should make an effort to be a little more constructive :)

I like PvP a lot. But not EQ PvP. Yes, I tried it. Not to be insulting, but who cares how you feel about it? That has nothing to do with how other people feel about it, and frankly the vote's been taken a long time ago. Red lost.

I'm not asking you to care. I just wish more people had experienced what I did, so that now I could be playing it instead of hopelessly reminiscing :P

At least I have my fond memories.

tl;dr: My server is failing, an average of 60 people play my server at any time, its obvious people don't want to play pvp here, but lets force it on all of you anyway so we can kill this server too. No thanks.

I didn't think my post was too long to read.

[Hailto]

I didn't think my post was too long to read.

It was really more the content that got to me, knowing there are people so selfish that even after they have had their fair chance with a server. They still want to force their ideal version of EQ on a player base that does not want it. At least there is no way it will ever happen.

[ForeverLost]

It was really more the content that got to me, knowing there are people so selfish that even after they have had their fair chance with a server. They still want to force their ideal version of EQ on a player base that does not want it. At least there is no way it will ever happen.

Don't let me get to you, I'm just a lowly paladin :P

But really, isn't this what the developers here are doing? They force their ideal version of EQ onto the players by removing shared bank spaces and the compass, and deciding the rules of the server. They could cater to the whims of the community, but they don't. I don't think they are selfish. Quite the opposite, really. They just want us to have fun.

[Ilakje]

I'd totally give red a chance if one time character copy were allowed from blue. No server merger though. That's just dumb.

[Hailto]

Don't let me get to you, I'm just a lowly paladin :P

But really, isn't this what the developers here are doing? They force their ideal version of EQ onto the players by removing shared bank spaces and the compass, and deciding the rules of the server. They could cater to the whims of the community, but they don't. I don't think they are selfish. Quite the opposite, really. They just want us to have fun.

Yeah but the difference here is that the vast majority of the player base here prefers the blue server, as evidenced by the population. EQ pvp is absolutely terrible, the mechanics are bad, the community is bad, its like distilling the worst of the EQ community in general into one server. So yes, it would be selfish to say hey lets force everyone into playing red even though the vast majority obviously don't want to play red or the server would not be dead.

[ForeverLost]

Yeah but the difference here is that the vast majority of the player base here prefers the blue server, as evidenced by the population. EQ pvp is absolutely terrible, the mechanics are bad, the community is bad, its like distilling the worst of the EQ community in general into one server. So yes, it would be selfish to say hey lets force everyone into playing red even though the vast majority obviously don't want to play red or the server would not be dead.

Like I said, people don't play there because they don't know what they're missing. It's about the community moreso than the mechanics, and the mechanics aren't even that bad. I don't mean to upset anyone, these are just my opinions.

And if you all were playing on the red server, maybe the community wouldn't be so bad! Not that I think the community is bad, that's just a stereotype.

[ForeverLost]

Newsflash: Blue players have already given Red99 it a try. There was a huge hype for it upon release and everyone gave it a shot. Red99 server failed for a variety of reasons I won't go into here, but to say we didn't try PvP is retarded.

I'm sorry that your pop will never rise above 60 unless it's a Nihilum raid night. Accept it, and move on.

Trying out a server for a month or two isn't really experiencing PvP. Maybe I'm not expressing myself well enough.

[Brut]

Red dead due to community being wretched, hardly because of dev decisions.

EQ pvp is absolutely terrible, the mechanics are bad

Eh, wouldn't say that. It does make the game more entertaining when you don't just kill 3 tesch mas gnolls and tab out at 20%hp 0% mana, but instead have to spam /who, know what person that shows up on list is in range and if they're hostile, keep rotating camera around, stay at decent mana and have proper spells ready in case some druid suddenly runs over the hill to come spam Firestrike on you when you're in the middle of fighting a mob. And then you turn it around and wreck the druid, laugh at him and all that jazz!

Trying out a server for a month or two isn't really experiencing PvP. Maybe I'm not expressing myself well enough.

Was fun until logging in meant running from LGuk to NFP and finding exactly one random spectre camper otw at Oasis to quarrel with. Did a couple duels on blue to see what resist tables would look like at 60ish Pvp, and did not want to log on red to get blinded/rooted at 150+ MR every 2nd cast for full duration.

[fullmetalcoxman]

Trying out a server for a month or two isn't really experiencing PvP. Maybe I'm not expressing myself well enough.

No, you're expressing yourself fine. It's just a stupid idea.

[Bouncerr]

That's the one thing I loved and miss about Rallos, Item loot.

[ForeverLost]

That's the one thing I loved and miss about Rallos, Item loot.

Rallos had a very unique community, too. I really liked the anti vs. PK scene there :)

[Glorindale]

Dumb.

[ForeverLost]

Best idea ever. I love you, Perdita!

I do it all for you :)

[Magevro]

I'd totally give red a chance if one time character copy were allowed from blue. No server merger though. That's just dumb.

^ This ^
I've always been a pvper, except for the time I played Everquest live..it never seemed a pvp game to me, and the difficulty of the grind seemed enough, but I'd try it out.

Although if it is true that the server is made up 75% of one guild all holding hands together to ensure they don't have any challenges..well, that sounds pretty sad. If its true :)

[Swish]

Shed loads of red accounts for sale at all times. That's all the indication you need.

OP is clearly someone that didn't join in Nov 2012, post under your regular forum account whoever you are :P

[ForeverLost]

its an obvious fucking troll, god whenever this dude gets bored he makes a new account post this same thread over and over and trolls the same retards again and again no one on red is begging u trak spawn sitting nerds over.

I'm not a troll. I recently started on blue99, my name is Perdita.

[Hailto]

its an obvious fucking troll, god whenever this dude gets bored he makes a new account post this same thread over and over and trolls the same retards again and again no one on red is begging u trak spawn sitting nerds over.

95 players online, you guys are doin it big tonight!

[Dirtnap]

I tried red for a bit, and was turned off by the emptiness. I never even PVPed at all. However, I CANNOT stand doing corpse runs already. I sure as hell am not gonna be happy being corpse camped, having to CR multiple times in a row.

I have always been interested in Team PVP servers though. I played a tiny bit on whatever server that was back in the day. I was a High Elf pally, and I teamed up with a Barbarian Shaman. Was funny cause we were on different teams.

[Lexical]

If there was a team PvP server, I would join it. It made the world fully immersive. While I played on R99, the community was nice and fun loving in a much more hostile kind of way, but it wasn't the open community I enjoyed in EQ. I understand its merits, but merging the servers would destroy blue and give red maybe 30 new members at a very liberal estimate. A fully red server is way too hostile for most people so I wouldn't hold your breath for the merger.

[Sturgeon]

If red and blue merged would it become Purple P99?

[Jimes]

yo redtards, get it through your skulls that the rest of us do like eq pvp. The only redeeming quality about eq pvp is that it necessitates a red server, which means we don't have to see you or hear you, ever.

[Kraftwerk]

pvp on red99 in a nutshell:

literally nothing but once a week a screenshot will be posted on forums of 6 nihilums with epics and trak BPs and VP gear killshotting an underleveled unguilded Dark Elf in an advisor robe in a 6v1

they then go "PWNTT! OMG OWWWNED DIRT NAPPEDDDD"

PvE on Blue 99 in a nutshell :

100 people sit on a raid boss spawn point. Then a raid boss spawns and a person from Guild A hits it before a person from Guild B or even C. Then a GM gives out loot.

They then go "OMG L2COMPETE OMG YOU ALL SUCK"

[Raavak]

I don't care how many people on each server, you can't really merge servers governed by two different rulesets.

[ForeverLost]

I don't care how many people on each server, you can't really merge servers governed by two different rulesets.

Sure you can, they did it on live all the time.

[Nogdar]

I'm not tempted by red whatsoever tbh, but I would definitely give a shot to a Tallon Zek/Vallon Zek, team pvp server. I thought the idea really cool back then and it would make it harder for a guild to dominate everything. With a bit of management say, make it impossible to create an avatar in the team with the strongest current player base of the 4 after some point if there's a lack of balance, it could be really cool IMO and would possibly/probably attract more players than red currently does.

I could be wrong, and I have no idea how easy/hard it is to modify rules, but it'd be worth a try IMO :)

[ForeverLost]

I'm not tempted by red whatsoever tbh, but I would definitely give a shot to a Tallon Zek/Vallon Zek, team pvp server. I thought the idea really cool back then and it would make it harder for a guild to dominate everything. With a bit of management say, make it impossible to create an avatar in the team with the strongest current player base of the 4 after some point if there's a lack of balance, it could be really cool IMO and would possibly/probably attract more players than red currently does.

I could be wrong, and I have no idea how easy/hard it is to modify rules, but it'd be worth a try IMO :)

I'd like to see good/evil teams, but not the way it was on VZ/TZ. On those two servers, the teams could group and guild with one another, which would just cause every guild to include all 4 teams in these modern times. Would need hardcoded SZ-like teams.

[Graahle]

red99 does that too tbh

Um no to that one, and contrary to a previous post you had, epics aren't even out on Red yet.

Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.

[Messianic]

Bad thread. Could have said everything you said by saying

"I think PvP is better than non-PvP. Therefore, p99 should be consolidated to one PvP server."

"Everyone should have to play like me even though my views are shared by less than 15% of the playerbase."

[Messianic]

...

This is partially why i'm glad so few issues are discretionary on blue. Although regardless how it is handled, every single EQ PvP server deteriorates into what you see on red. It's the nature of the beast.

[Vladesch]

If I was forced into pvp I would leave the server and never come back.
I have no time for adolescent griefers.

[Messianic]

If I was forced into pvp I would leave the server and never come back.
I have no time for adolescent griefers.

[Zereh]

I have no time for adolescent griefers.

It's not so different ~ Blue requires an adult (GM) to resolve their adolescent in-game issues. =)

[Spitty]

This is one of those threads where you read the first post, skip immediately to the end and submit a comment.

A comment, like this one, that adds absolutely nothing to the conversation because the conversation started and ended with a really bad idea in post #1.

[ForeverLost]

Well that's not very nice :(

[Spitty]

I balanced the scales by debasing my own comment, but it really isn't a good idea.

Look at it this way. I chose blue, not that there was much of a choice when I started playing here, but given the choice later on - still went with blue.

Not because I don't enjoy PvP or don't understand how a PvP atmosphere is fun. Hell, I beta'd EQ on RZ and played a rogue there on release before moving to TM and building Spitulski. I know where you're coming from, and so do some of the people I play with.

Still chose blue.

Implementing your idea would be telling me, and hundreds of others, that we don't know what we're talking about when it comes to PvP, that the reasons we chose playing on blue are irrelevant and all of the time invested into our blue characters is worthless.

So, it's either terrifically insulting to try to spin this as a good idea...or it's a bad idea. It's your choice to pick the description you identify with.

[ForeverLost]

Most people didn't seem to realize that my post in the blue forums was more tongue-in-cheek than it was serious, seeing as it's not going to happen ever.

Mostly I'm lamenting the fact that EQ PvP truly is dead now. I never meant to be insulting toward anyone, and I don't understand why so many people chose to feel insulted.

[Spitty]

I skipped that part of where you were coming from, though inadvertently. I really did read post number one and blasted straight to the end.

I would venture a guess that your timing wasn't helping your cause. The blue side's been barraged by small factions of red players for months bringing up similar suggestions that generally deteriorate quickly.

I suppose since your post was well-composed, I felt the need to chime in. If it were my server on the brink of extinction, I'd lament it too.

[Furniture]

This is like saying that all americans should be forced into mexico and take their jobs, and live under the mexican government, nobody is going to be happy with it on either side

[InfamousTaco]

ForeverLost - If you want to PvP, come to the Red server. It's not dead. You haven't even tried have you?

PvP happens all day, everywhere.

[Kevynne]

red99 is alive and thriving.

blue99/red99 merger would be pree sweet though.

[Anesthia]

Sounds like a red looking for a larger pool of victims.

The glory days of the Zeks were rad, but EQ PvP is eclipsed by many other games.

[ForeverLost]

ForeverLost - If you want to PvP, come to the Red server. It's not dead. You haven't even tried have you?

PvP happens all day, everywhere.

I have a 50 cleric I started a year ago, and some random lower levels. It's pretty dead, unfortunately :(

[GretchenRPH]

IMO, pvp is fine if it's consensual. All you had to do was turn in your Book of Discord. Or /duel someone.

I like killing monsters, not players. And the player balance between these two servers is a vote where people cast their ballots by picking a server. If most people don't want to be on the pvp server, then....what conclusion do you draw from that? Encourage more people to try the red server, don't annex the non-pvp.

[Vladesch]

we don't have to see you or hear you, ever.

Don't worry, the feeling is mutual.

[happyhappy]

Jesus christ you people are easily trolled.

[Sturgeon]

Maybe if everyone wasn't in one Guild you'd all stop QQing neckbeards.

[Pudge]

heh you guys have it all wrong. nihilum is not 75% of the population. foreverlost you still have the chance to play on a server where there is drama. because shit happens like that a lot. red slowly growing to higher numbers as ppl try it out and see it's fun, there are low levels exping and exp goes fast. def not the same experience leveling up as you might like, but you can find ppl.

i myself am all for a naked-toon copy/transfer that puts ppl back to level 50, with no 50+ spells in their book. other red players think this is a bad idea and it doesnt take long to 50, so you shoudl just level regularly. but that means not everyone starts at the same time so it's def. not as exciting as all getting a transfer over at the same time and jumping into pvp over exp and loots with your fellow blues + new fellow reds.

[Ames_]

You should just make a new character and level up. Me and Pudge are doing that and we are already in our mid 20's. It's not hard to level on this server at all pal's. If you roll a new character I can help you get some gear if you need it.

[Clark]

I'd support a merger or a server wipe and restart on pvp

[NachtMystium]

no offense but this is the dumbest idea ever and idk how it's gotten to 8 pages

[ForeverLost]

foreverlost you still have the chance to play on a server where there is drama. because shit happens like that a lot. red slowly growing to higher numbers as ppl try it out and see it's fun, there are low levels exping and exp goes fast. def not the same experience leveling up as you might like, but you can find ppl.

I play MMOs for the social side of things, making friends and stuff. It's a lot easier to do this on blue than red atm; you won't see me back on red unless the population increases, and it seems as though most red players don't want to do what it would take to increase their numbers. Now I have a 23 cleric on blue, and rising!

[Acillatem]

I played Tallon Zek on Live. While I agree PvP adds more flavor and excitement to the game, I just feel the community on Red 99 isn't the same as it was on Live. I have a toon on Red 99, but it's just not the same. EQ PvP was broken, but was still very fun and competitive thru PoP.

So while I miss the glory days of a PvP server, I just didn't find what I was looking for on Red 99. /shrug.

[DeathByCactus]

Not at all, no. I would want people to give PvP a try, so that they could discover how much more interesting and fun the game becomes. Currently, that's not really possible with the low population on red.

No. I played this game on pvp (TZ). It was fun (<3). My necro twink used to PK at the gfay bank all the time. Running around griefing lowbies... getting into epic mage battles with even and higher lvl players all across NK/EK/SK/NK/WK/NK/EK/NK/Qeynos...... While my monk main got pwned for 55 lvls by every caster until I got raid gear with resists unless I was in a dungeon.

Those days are gone though. I am not going to spend my time running around from high lvl players, fighting for raid spawns, fighting constantly against insane twinks (even more than my twinks) trying to keep my spawns... which will ultimately divulge into me re-rolling a monk and training massive amounts of my enemies out of spite and rage. Ultimately proving that all that twinking means nothing against my epic army of every NPC in the zone.

There are just not enough people who play pvp (would need 1500 minimum for me to come back). The bank scene would be a nightmare. Not enough players in Neriak/Gfay/FP for trade.... No.

Also, the community on Red99 sucks. It's not the same as it was on TZ or on any live pvp server for that matter. The glory days are dead and gone and it should stay like that.

[Holey]

Ill say this
Bye blue. Go Poopsock your camp for 1-84 hours a week. ill enjoy my pvp over the camp we get here.
Having to sit there, Oh can i join your grp for loots? No pvp over that stuff.
I been on blue since the begining on and off. i been on red for a month.
im loving it on red more than ever.

oh btw. i burned bridges so bye bye blue :D

[Silo69]

Ill say this
Bye blue. Go Poopsock your camp for 1-84 hours a week. ill enjoy my pvp over the camp we get here.
Having to sit there, Oh can i join your grp for loots? No pvp over that stuff.
I been on blue since the begining on and off. i been on red for a month.
im loving it on red more than ever.

oh btw. i burned bridges so bye bye blue :D

don't let the login server hit your ass on the way out

what you gonna do about it bro? /duel me, hahah gtfo eq pvp is dead so is red

[Kope]

Red dead due to community being wretched, hardly because of dev decisions.

Pretty much this, I would have LOVED to play on a pvp server like I did on live, but the pvp community is just straight toxic.

Pvp is to blue

as

Australia is to England

[Kraftwerk]

Pretty much this, I would have LOVED to play on a pvp server like I did on live, but the pvp community is just straight toxic.

Pvp is to blue

as

Australia is to England

I don't understand that analogy. Australia is cool and England is old and boring, so I agree with your assessment. Did you mean that pvp was better than blue?

[Spitty]

I don't understand that analogy either.

Both places are pretty cool, unless you've never visited either and get your opinions from the internet like most mouthbreathers.

[Dirtnap]

I think Red would have been much more appealing had it been Team Deathmatch and not Free For All.

[Kope]

I don't understand that analogy either.

Both places are pretty cool, unless you've never visited either and get your opinions from the internet like most mouthbreathers.

I don't understand that analogy. Australia is cool and England is old and boring, so I agree with your assessment. Did you mean that pvp was better than blue?

You guys really need to read the context of the statement line for line :P

[Tasslehofp99]

2 Solutions:


1.) (highly unlikely)Merge servers, put NPC's all over the world(possibly in every zone) to change your character to PVP/Non-pvp at will.


2.) Offer the people on Blue a chance to copy their toons over to red without (or with some gear, possibly no drop items?) gear. Then they dont have to go through leveling a character, they can just hop on and play with their character from blue.


Either way, reds need to gtfo these forums already.

[SyanideGas]

2 Solutions:
reds need to gtfo these forums already.

Truth.
If people wanted to play it, they would switch ova.
I played red. Just don't think a ton of people are generally interested with PvP in Everquest.

[Bamzal Sherbet]

all across NK/EK/SK/NK/WK/NK/EK/NK/Qeynos uhhhhh whaat?

[Vermicelli]

If I wanted to PVP, I would hop on Team Fortress 2 or Counter Strike or Call of Duty or Halo. I have tried EQ PVP, and it doesn't make me feel good.

[Diggles]

I don't understand that analogy. Australia is cool and England is old and boring, so I agree with your assessment. Did you mean that pvp was better than blue?

Australia was full of british criminals.

Red is full of cheaters that were banned from blue

[BigSlip]

everyone who doesnt play red is obviously terrible at everquest in general


the rest of argument is pointless


dont get mad

[Diggles]

everyone who doesnt play red is obviously terrible at everquest in general


the rest of argument is pointless


dont get mad

mental midget who was kept in tmo as a running joke thinks he's a factor in a 13 pop server.

[BigSlip]

diggles u allways sucked my wang hard


go fuck w someone else who isnt in pure belief you might be retarded irl


heh

[Diggles]

diggles u allways sucked my wang hard


go fuck w someone else who isnt in pure belief you might be retarded irl


heh



dont get mad

truth hurts, dont lash out on me

[BigSlip]

who mad?

[Diggles]

http://i.imgur.com/Nq9qh.jpg

[BigSlip]

i wonder who gets more attractive women

[BigSlip]

cheers my nig !

[Diggles]

man, do wut you gotta do i mean, hiding your lazy eye p. classy.
thought you weren't mad but u gettin awfully heated in here.

[BigSlip]

haha @ lazy eye

u wish dewd

look at that lazy body of yours


go swim 100 laps plz

[Diggles]

ay man like i said, you're the one gettin a lil uppity, go smoke a joint and play everquest

o wait servers dead

[Bamzal Sherbet]

funny how much rl shit is brought up in this game forum

[mwatt]

The post made by the OP was wishful self-centered thinking on the part of the poster (yeah, I know, he is trying to "help" us bloobies discover the joy that is PVP). It was also a sad commentary on what the MMO world has become.

As MMOs have evolved, PVP has become more and more prevalent - probably partly due to the success of WoW and also partly due to the fact that there is a large percentage of the gaming population that enjoy PVP.

Personally, I don't like PVP and I don't like the baggage that comes along with it. I know there is a significant percentage of MMO players who feel similarly. Classic EQ is one of the last bastions of "mostly pure" PVE. Why in the HELL do people feel the need to try and take even that away? The damned Red server is there, isn't that enough? Oh no, we should all be forced to play PVP. The nerve of some people.

[Cippofra]

The post made by the OP was wishful self-centered thinking on the part of the poster (yeah, I know, he is trying to "help" us bloobies discover the joy that is PVP). It was also a sad commentary on what the MMO world has become.

As MMOs have evolved, PVP has become more and more prevalent - probably partly due to the success of WoW and also partly due to the fact that there is a large percentage of the gaming population that enjoy PVP.

Personally, I don't like PVP and I don't like the baggage that comes along with it. I know there is a significant percentage of MMO players who feel similarly. Classic EQ is one of the last bastions of "mostly pure" PVE. Why in the HELL do people feel the need to try and take even that away? The damned Red server is there, isn't that enough? Oh no, we should all be forced to play PVP. The nerve of some people.

WoW's pvp is challenging. Theres collective goals to work towards. And it's optional. Really even optional on a pvp server, where I played. The few pvp encounters I had in the pve world were just a little bit of fun. Someone might kill you before they zone into an instance, but they'd move on and forget about you. EQ's pvp is about making it as difficult as possible for people under you to advance to the point that you are at. People don't move on because being able to kill a healer 4 levels below you over and over for an hour is enjoyable when you aren't good enough or too selfish to hack it in the pve world.

[Anesthia]

WoW's pvp is challenging. Theres collective goals to work towards. And it's optional. Really even optional on a pvp server, where I played. The few pvp encounters I had in the pve world were just a little bit of fun. Someone might kill you before they zone into an instance, but they'd move on and forget about you. EQ's pvp is about making it as difficult as possible for people under you to advance to the point that you are at. People don't move on because being able to kill a healer 4 levels below you over and over for an hour is enjoyable when you aren't good enough or too selfish to hack it in the pve world.

Yes and no on WoW's PvP being challenging (I'm splitting hairs), but I would agree that it attracts a long-term playerbase much more than EQ's PvP. There are several different approaches that could be taken to make EQ PvP more appealing, but basically anything that isn't classic derails the nostalgia train, which is what pretty much everybody on red/blue rides. If red wants to reach 100+ regularly, it would need people who care more about PvP for PvP's sake than griefing just because they can.

[mostbitter]

people would care more if there wasnt an exp pen on pvp death

[Diggles]

WoW's pvp is challenging. Theres collective goals to work towards. And it's optional. Really even optional on a pvp server, where I played. The few pvp encounters I had in the pve world were just a little bit of fun. Someone might kill you before they zone into an instance, but they'd move on and forget about you. EQ's pvp is about making it as difficult as possible for people under you to advance to the point that you are at. People don't move on because being able to kill a healer 4 levels below you over and over for an hour is enjoyable when you aren't good enough or too selfish to hack it in the pve world.

as a current wow player

no, wow's pvp isnt challenging. Everything is gear/composition based.

[stormlord]

I'm of course not expecting anything like this to happen, but that doesn't mean it's not worth discussing. It's my opinion that PvP made EQ a much, much better game. I wish more of you could have experienced it on live. That's really why Red99 has such a poor population: you don't know what you're missing. It would have been wonderful if the dev team here had played the Zek servers, and made PvP a priority when making their classic server.

After the merge, even once the unadventurous bluebies quit, we would have a healthy population of 400+. And that would be much preferred over what we have now :)
I played on Sullon Zek between 2001-2005 and Zek thereafter. On SZ, anybody of any level could kill you. That's as tough as it gets. So I'm not going to say the things I'm going to say from a foxhole. I'm saying what I'm saying with confidence and I'll stand out in the open because I'm speaking with some experience.

The primary reason the Zek servers didn't do well:
1) Open-world PvP in MMORPGs is not popular

That's the #1 reason. Players prefer things like the battlegrounds type of PvP. That way they can sample PvP when they want to and can ignore it the rest of the time. With open-world PvP ther'es no options: you're in or you're out. What made it worse in EQ was the lack of istances early on.

I'd say the second reason is this:
1) PvP in Everquest was not the priority

Everquest was no designed explicitly to be PvP-oriented. From what I understand, they only added the PvP servers in the last stages of development as optional forms of gameplay.

I've played on red p1999 and like the server, but I'm not surprised by its population one bit. In virtually every single MMORPG I've played the PvP servers have smaller population. Generally this is because of open-world pvp. This is not to say that I myself don't like open-world pvp. Actually, the truth is I do like it.

Most players aren't hardcore enough to brave the world without some protections. Even I had protections because I was a ranger. I could track and see them before they surprised me, for example. Just imagine if I had been a warrior and couldn't fine a group. What would I do in a PvP situation? Lots of playres on the PvP server(s) will select solo-able classes and get a high level and then create some "pure" alts afterwards. But just as many don't and thus many of them end up leaving and I suspect it has a major impact.

The point I make in the previous paragraph is an important one. A game that's heavily group-dependent and population-sensitive and not tuned for PvP specifically can be very vulnerable.

[Silo69]

I played on Sullon Zek between 2001-2005 and Zek thereafter. On SZ, anybody of any level could kill you. That's as tough as it gets. So I'm not going to say the things I'm going to say from a foxhole. I'm saying what I'm saying with confidence and I'll stand out in the open because I'm speaking with some experience.

The primary reason the Zek servers didn't do well:
1) Open-world PvP in MMORPGs is not popular

That's the #1 reason. Players prefer things like the battlegrounds type of PvP. That way they can sample PvP when they want to and can ignore it the rest of the time. With open-world PvP ther'es no options: you're in or you're out. What made it worse in EQ was the lack of istances early on.

I'd say the second reason is this:
1) PvP in Everquest was not the priority

Everquest was no designed explicitly to be PvP-oriented. From what I understand, they only added the PvP servers in the last stages of development as optional forms of gameplay.

I've played on red p1999 and like the server, but I'm not surprised by its population one bit. In virtually every single MMORPG I've played the PvP servers have smaller population. Generally this is because of open-world pvp. This is not to say that I myself don't like open-world pvp. Actually, the truth is I do like it.

Most players aren't hardcore enough to brave the world without some protections. Even I had protections because I was a ranger. I could track and see them before they surprised me, for example. Just imagine if I had been a warrior and couldn't fine a group. What would I do in a PvP situation? Lots of playres on the PvP server(s) will select solo-able classes and get a high level and then create some "pure" alts afterwards. But just as many don't and thus many of them end up leaving and I suspect it has a major impact.

The point I make in the previous paragraph is an important one. A game that's heavily group-dependent and population-sensitive and not tuned for PvP specifically can be very vulnerable.

sullon was the real pvp server i miss thee

[HippoNipple]

I played on Sullon Zek between 2001-2005 and Zek thereafter. On SZ, anybody of any level could kill you. That's as tough as it gets. So I'm not going to say the things I'm going to say from a foxhole. I'm saying what I'm saying with confidence and I'll stand out in the open because I'm speaking with some experience.

The primary reason the Zek servers didn't do well:
1) Open-world PvP in MMORPGs is not popular

That's the #1 reason. Players prefer things like the battlegrounds type of PvP. That way they can sample PvP when they want to and can ignore it the rest of the time. With open-world PvP ther'es no options: you're in or you're out. What made it worse in EQ was the lack of istances early on.

I'd say the second reason is this:
1) PvP in Everquest was not the priority

Everquest was no designed explicitly to be PvP-oriented. From what I understand, they only added the PvP servers in the last stages of development as optional forms of gameplay.

I've played on red p1999 and like the server, but I'm not surprised by its population one bit. In virtually every single MMORPG I've played the PvP servers have smaller population. Generally this is because of open-world pvp. This is not to say that I myself don't like open-world pvp. Actually, the truth is I do like it.

Most players aren't hardcore enough to brave the world without some protections. Even I had protections because I was a ranger. I could track and see them before they surprised me, for example. Just imagine if I had been a warrior and couldn't fine a group. What would I do in a PvP situation? Lots of playres on the PvP server(s) will select solo-able classes and get a high level and then create some "pure" alts afterwards. But just as many don't and thus many of them end up leaving and I suspect it has a major impact.

The point I make in the previous paragraph is an important one. A game that's heavily group-dependent and population-sensitive and not tuned for PvP specifically can be very vulnerable.

This is why there cannot be one server with one set of rules. Not because of what this guy is saying is correct, but because like him many don't understand the point of PvP in a game like EQ.

It isn't supposed to be something you do on the side. It is a freedom to do what you want and not have a game restrict your actions. It is not sitting aside and letting a guild push you around because they have someone sitting at a spawn for 10 hours. You do what you want. You take what you want. It is fair, challenging, realistic, exciting, and gives the community personality.

Blue and Red is split and you can't make someone that is one way enjoy it the other way. Some people may stray from red and blue to the other because they are fed up with server drama or population problems but for the most part, some people can't handle the freedom and threat of PvP and are blue for this reason.

[Anesthia]

This is why there cannot be one server with one set of rules. Not because of what this guy is saying is correct, but because like him many don't understand the point of PvP in a game like EQ.

It isn't supposed to be something you do on the side. It is a freedom to do what you want and not have a game restrict your actions. It is not sitting aside and letting a guild push you around because they have someone sitting at a spawn for 10 hours. You do what you want. You take what you want. It is fair, challenging, realistic, exciting, and gives the community personality.

Blue and Red is split and you can't make someone that is one way enjoy it the other way. Some people may stray from red and blue to the other because they are fed up with server drama or population problems but for the most part, some people can't handle the freedom and threat of PvP and are blue for this reason.

Horse-shittiest comment in this thread. Completely gloss over the content of the post and fall back to the "bloob versus outlaw" argument. "Six years of SZ experience? Ignored." This isn't about sandbox (DayZ) versus carebear PvP (WoW). It's about the modern EQ PvP experience, which, if you had actually digested the content of his post, would reveal to you that a game which is specifically designed for and caters to opt-in PvP is much more popular than your Outlaw-or-Fuckoff utopia.

[Auditore]

Man, I don't understand why red players don't just play EVE. You're allowed, hell, encouraged, to fuck people over as much as you want, the combat is about 5 times more thrilling than EQ, and it's in space.

[mostbitter]

actually eve is boring and just about time invested

[Auditore]

actually eve is boring and just about time invested

implying everquest pvp isn't boring and just about time invested.

[mostbitter]

jousting skill has nothing to do with time invested

[Otur]

I'm of course not expecting anything like this to happen, but that doesn't mean it's not worth discussing. It's my opinion that PvP made EQ a much, much better game. I wish more of you could have experienced it on live. That's really why Red99 has such a poor population: you don't know what you're missing. It would have been wonderful if the dev team here had played the Zek servers, and made PvP a priority when making their classic server.

After the merge, even once the unadventurous bluebies quit, we would have a healthy population of 400+. And that would be much preferred over what we have now :)

http://blog.thomascheng.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gordon-ramsay.jpg
There's the door, now piss off. And take that filthy pvp-server with you!

[Pyronius]

I find it funny that the original post is written from the stand point of omnipotence...

1: Red99 has a poor population - You don't know what you're missing

Uh, a lot of us do know what we are missing, and did play on red or both in vanilla... Bluebie/redtard insults aside, people are going to play what appealed to them most back in the day.

Also, in regards to population, if you want to look at a percentage of players, red currently has a much richer population than it did in vanilla.

2. After the merge, even once the unadventurous bluebies quit, we would have a healthy population of 400+. And that would be much preferred over what we have now

Your assumption that you know the will and wants of around 1000 some people and exactly how they would react to such a thing, is pretty laughable.. considering what you want to force them into was already an option...13 years ago, and again now...

What you're suggesting parallels someone stating they should shut down the Project 1999 servers and set up a vanilla WoW emu server, and convert everyone's accounts to WoW accounts, because you personally thought WoW was a better game, and everyone that's here playing this don't actually know what they want, so you should be allowed to chose for them.

[Bamzal Sherbet]

look at it percantage of players per zone. post-kunark it went down to 0.5% player per zone

[Zallar]

I left red server because of the community. There are some cool people on there, and there are alot of idiots. Folks that have grouped with me know that I don't tolerate racism. I couldn't find a single guild willing to have a no-racism policy.

I had discussions with several people in game about it when I was guilded / grouped with them, the best I got was ridiculed in front of and behind my back for my desires.

I've always said that you can't control other people on the Internet, all you can control is your reaction to them. So my reaction was to leave. If that's the community you want, then that's all you'll have left.

[Tarathiel]

So basically you want to take the wants of the relatively few pvpers on red and enforce them on other people, knowing full well you would destroy the experience for at least half the playerbase here while simultaneously destroying the high numbers we currently have logging in every night?

Excellent topic. Discuss further! I'm sure there are so many facets and points here that are rife with quality material that won't devolve into a flames and rants-esque type thread.

Cheerio,

Tomtee

second post sums up this whole thread

i did not bother to read passed this post

[gotrocks]

I find it funny that the original post is written from the stand point of omnipotence...

1: Red99 has a poor population - You don't know what you're missing

Uh, a lot of us do know what we are missing, and did play on red or both in vanilla... Bluebie/redtard insults aside, people are going to play what appealed to them most back in the day.

Also, in regards to population, if you want to look at a percentage of players, red currently has a much richer population than it did in vanilla.

2. After the merge, even once the unadventurous bluebies quit, we would have a healthy population of 400+. And that would be much preferred over what we have now

Your assumption that you know the will and wants of around 1000 some people and exactly how they would react to such a thing, is pretty laughable.. considering what you want to force them into was already an option...13 years ago, and again now...

What you're suggesting parallels someone stating they should shut down the Project 1999 servers and set up a vanilla WoW emu server, and convert everyone's accounts to WoW accounts, because you personally thought WoW was a better game, and everyone that's here playing this don't actually know what they want, so you should be allowed to chose for them.

when you said vanilla i couldn't help but want something vanilla flavored.

^^this comment means about as much as the OP