Duel wield/double attack percentages/code? (warning: mathy)

[koros]

Anyone aware of how duel wield/double attack percentages work by class/level/skill? Or maybe the server staff is willing to share the code like they have for damage bonus.

Basically I'm trying to mathematically determine the ratio/level threshholds for when and if I should switch to duel wield (Jade mace + wurmslayer) as a ranger instead of using a 2 hander (woodsman's staff).

You can ignore my math jargon but, the "sweet spot" that should be more or less normally distributed around for a jade mace primary is 26-29 from 50-60 following the formula ( base damage x 2 + damage bonus), which divided by delay gives it a "rating" of 1.44-1.61 from 50-60. The wurmslayer offhand has a "sweet spot" of 50 (weapon damage * 2), and divided by the delay of 40 has a "rating" of 1.25, which is then multiplied by the % that duel wield fires to determine its real rating.

Woodsman's staff as a 2 hander of delay > 27 and < 40 has a damage bonus of 14-17 from 51-60 according to code Rogean has previously mentioned. This gives it a "sweet spot" of 76-79 and a "rating" of 2.17-2.25.

So long story short, for duel wield to be better, the offhand needs to have an effective rating of .64-.73 (from 60-51 respectively). Anyone know how often duel wield fires, or the formula to determine it?

[melkezidek]

The only time you would want to switch from the woodsman staff as a ranger after lvl 30 is when you have epic.

[fadetree]

concur

[webrunner5]

Same with Monks and a lot of other classes. 2 Hander after level 20.

[koros]

Have people parsed this? If duel wield rate is over 60%, the math doesn't bear that claim out. Additiotionally - 14/24 will barely (as in less than 1% dps difference) outperform a 9/18 over time at 60, and a WS has a better ratio than swiftwind. Obviously the stats/40% haste/30 atk more than make up for it. But even with those factors ranger epics shouldn't outperform a 9/18 and 25/40 by more than 3-4% max.

[fadetree]

I have not personally parsed this, but others have. I'm not sure the math is all that straightforward, but at any rate I think some controlled testing with a log-based DPS parser is the way to enlightenment.

[Elements]

I havent been able to find any accurate information about the way 2 hander damage bonus is applied based on level and weapon delay for this server. That makes it difficult to compare 2h to dual wield by level.

I also find it a shame that lammy main hand wurmy offhand or JM mainhand wurmy offhand both outperform ranger epics and similarly warrior epics at 60 for raw melee damage (assuming you can maintain 40% item haste w/o swiftwind) based on main hand damage bonus and weapon ratios. Perhaps the dual wield chance skews this based on mainhand weapon delay?

[koros]

3rd post down

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=79696&highlight=damage+bonus

[Elements]

So using the damage bonus information from the c++ code and given that while dual wielding the main hand and offhand swing independantly, the ratio of mainhand and offhand should be additive when comparing to 2hand. As such the additive ratio of JM mainhand and wurmslayer offhand consistantly beats the ratio of woodsman staff even with the 2h damage bonus applied, at every level once a ranger gets dual wield. This doesnt even take into account dual wield "procs". So unless double attack applies differently to 2h as it does to dual wield then JM/wurmy appears to be the best dps on paper at all level assuming equal haste.

Just for an example:

Lvl 20 - jm ratio (0.5) + wurmy ratio (0.625) = 1.125 > woodsman staff (0.89)
Lvl 60 - jm + 11 (1.11) + wurmy (0.625) = 1.74 > woodsman staff + 17.7 (1.39)

[Elements]

Someone please show me mathematically how woodsman staff > jm/wurmy at any level past getting dual wield.

I think we are showing why wurmy gets nerfed to main hand only.

[Doors]

Woodsman staff in no way shape or form beats out a lupine dagger/jade mace/ MH with a wurmy OH.

[Splorf22]

IIRC warriors and rangers dual wield with skill+level / 500. At L60 this is 60% for warriors. So for example:

SCD 10/18 dmg bonus 11 -> 31/18 = 1.72
Wurmslayer 25/40 -> 50*0.6 / 40 = 0.75
total -> 2.47

Staff of Battle 31/37 damge bonus 17 -> 79/37 = 2.13

Of course the calculation is not that simple, because it depends on str/atk (higher = bigger max hits, so ratio is more important than damage bonus), level (higher = more dw chance and more 2HB bonus), triple attack for warriors only applies to the mainhand, etc.

[koros]

Thank you splorf. That's exactly what i was looking for

[Visual]

Woodsman staff in no way shape or form beats out a lupine dagger/jade mace/ MH with a wurmy OH.

That's what I have seen from my experience. Sold staff for a net loss soon after I purchased it. I was not impressed by it's performance.

[Pimecone]

I play video games for fun

[Pimecone]

if i didnt though, i'd make real good friends with some revultant rats

[eazy]

Ain't you supposed to nuke between swings of the Woodsman's Staff?

[webrunner5]

Ain't you supposed to nuke between swings of the Woodsman's Staff?

Yes you are. But with stuns and if you have a really good haste item its sort of hard to do if you are solo or the tank. Add Bard haste into that and even harder.

Back in the day two Lammy's where thought to be the pimp setup on a Ranger.

[nebulus]

Ain't you supposed to nuke between swings of the Woodsman's Staff?

Not sure how viable nuking between swings would be with a 35 delay weapon.. with a rbg it'll swing every 2.5 secs and thats not including spell/song/cloak of the dark sky haste... with firestike having a 4.6 cast time, and calefaction having a 2.5 cast time, it seems counterproductive.

[Hroth]

Snare - 2s cast
Call of Flame - 2s cast
Ensnare - 1.75s cast

At level 30, the Woodsman's seems to do the best DPS for me compared to Jade Mace and Green Jade Broadsword. I know the sword isn't the best, but I can't really see a wurmy being that much better to edge out the Woodsman's at this level. I don't have any haste item yet, but that isn't going to make one better than the other.

Plus, I quite often end up tanking and it is very nice to be able to cast snare and flame lick between swings with no loss of swing timer.

[nebulus]

Snare - 2s cast
Call of Flame - 2s cast
Ensnare - 1.75s cast

At level 30, the Woodsman's seems to do the best DPS for me compared to Jade Mace and Green Jade Broadsword. I know the sword isn't the best, but I can't really see a wurmy being that much better to edge out the Woodsman's at this level. I don't have any haste item yet, but that isn't going to make one better than the other.

Plus, I quite often end up tanking and it is very nice to be able to cast snare and flame lick between swings with no loss of swing timer.

rangers can't scribe call of flame til velious

[Hroth]

Not sure how viable nuking between swings would be with a 35 delay weapon.. with a rbg it'll swing every 2.5 secs and thats not including spell/song/cloak of the dark sky haste... with firestike having a 4.6 cast time, and calefaction having a 2.5 cast time, it seems counterproductive.

With just an RBG the delay would be 2.75 seconds. Regardless, you'll be losing less auto-attack melee DPS while using the staff than you would be with 1h options while casting your nukes.