Is Dark Elf a good race for SKs?

[Galaa]

Just wondering if DEs will be a variable race for an SK?

Low str isnt a problem, i have Hero Bracer, HBC etc so there's more than enough str to wear full plate without encumbering.

Lower sta than trolls and orge, but with a much larger mana pool, it means DEs can drain alot more HP which will cover the shortfall there.

I guess it boils down to the stun immunity of Orges, how important is this to a SK?

Like to seek some opinions pls.

Thanks :)

[Grimmly Fireforge]

They look pimp and that's all that matters.

[Doors]

Dark elf worst race for SK. Actually for any class. If you ever see poprocks running around /lol @ them.

[Xer0]

I just hit level 22 on my dark elf shadowknight and I quite enjoy it. I will admit, I played an ogre shadowknight on live and the high str/sta is a big perk, but it does not take away from my ability to enjoy the game.

Let's not forgot most SK aggro comes from spells, and ogres have the lowest (I think) intelligence of any race (Maybe 2nd lowest to trolls, i'm not 100% certain)

[Splorf22]

The size of your manapool doesn't really matter because your spells are pretty cheap.

The lack of stamina is moderately crappy but I think SKs are a lot more forgiving than warriors because you have only one stat: hp (and AC) so unlike warriors you don't have to worry about dex etc. The strength is irrelevant as your SK dps will be utter shit anyway.

The real advantage ogres have is frontal stun immunity. This is big because mobs bash a LOT now, so you'll get way more spells off and you'll have a much easier time splitting with FD if thats your thing. Of course, you'll still get interrupted by push.

Basically its always the same, its not the minmax choice but that doesn't mean you can't be effective and have fun. Good player > minmax class/race choices as always.

[godlovesninjas]

Pick whichever race you want for your class and enjoy yourself. In the end it makes very little difference.

[Galaa]

does having a high Agi offers any benefits?

I remember in Eq live it was stated that Agi affects defensive skills like dodge and parry, and it gives a higher chance of mobs completely missing you.

Is it the same here?

[Faron]

Having the ability to hide always sold me on DE's.

[godlovesninjas]

does having a high Agi offers any benefits?

I remember in Eq live it was stated that Agi affects defensive skills like dodge and parry, and it gives a higher chance of mobs completely missing you.

Is it the same here?

AGI has a pretty minimal effect on gameplay unless it drops under 75, at which point you start taking AC hits. Starting a DE SK you're best off splitting your 20 points between STA and STR. Your starting AGI should be something like 90 without points which is fine.

[xshayla701]

Having the ability to hide always sold me on DE's.

This, and looking beautiful. Go DE

[mazukon]

Having the ability to hide always sold me on DE's.

between feign death and circlet of shadow i really dont see how this is all that great.

as for ogre vs DE, DE look way cooler and the str/sta difference can be made up with with gear, but yes stun immunity on a tank is pretty vital...

[Faron]

between feign death and circlet of shadow i really dont see how this is all that great.


It has its advantages over both. It's instant and you can sit and regen hp/mana faster than while FD, and it won't fade like CoS (so you can go afk with confidence). It's good all around, but yeah, far more powerful for other classes.

[webrunner5]

The Ogre Troll classes are a real turds at times with their size. Unrest comes to mind, Sol A etc. A Female DE in Velious gear is the best looking plate gear in the game.

[Itap]

Looks are everything in this game.

Who cares if you die due to being inferior to other races, as long as you look good doing it :cool:

[Kadron]

Ring of the Dead (http://wiki.project1999.org/Ring_of_the_dead)

[Brut]

Having the ability to hide always sold me on DE's.
All SKs get Hide so not much of a selling point methinks.

DE is a good race for SK, sure.
Ogre best though. /nod

[Bamzal Sherbet]

I would like to inform you all of E.B.K. BLUUHD's elaborate Guide to playing a Dark Elf Shadow Knight on the PvP server (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67121)

[Xer0]

The size of your manapool doesn't really matter because your spells are pretty cheap.

The lack of stamina is moderately crappy but I think SKs are a lot more forgiving than warriors because you have only one stat: hp (and AC) so unlike warriors you don't have to worry about dex etc. The strength is irrelevant as your SK dps will be utter shit anyway.

The real advantage ogres have is frontal stun immunity. This is big because mobs bash a LOT now, so you'll get way more spells off and you'll have a much easier time splitting with FD if thats your thing. Of course, you'll still get interrupted by push.

Basically its always the same, its not the minmax choice but that doesn't mean you can't be effective and have fun. Good player > minmax class/race choices as always.

Maybe at higher levels the spells are cheap, but I know at lv22 (and decently geared) my mana pool drains v ery quickly when casting the new spells.. I think engulfing darkness takes something like 12-13% of my mana, and thats as a dark elf with 120 int

[Tarathiel]

It has its advantages over both. It's instant and you can sit and regen hp/mana faster than while FD, and it won't fade like CoS (so you can go afk with confidence). It's good all around, but yeah, far more powerful for other classes.

also, very few mobs can see thru hide, unlike invis

[Slave]

Maybe at higher levels the spells are cheap, but I know at lv22 (and decently geared) my mana pool drains v ery quickly when casting the new spells.. I think engulfing darkness takes something like 12-13% of my mana, and thats as a dark elf with 120 int

What is your reason for casting Engulfing Darkness, ever?

[Tarathiel]

What is your reason for casting Engulfing Darkness, ever?

fear kiting? um snare in dungeons? pretty much anything... considering its the best one available to an sk until dooming darkness at 49 i would think an sk would have plenty of reasons to use it. my sk does

[Taffan]

Gnome SK, obv.

[Slave]

fear kiting? um snare in dungeons? pretty much anything... considering its the best one available to an sk until dooming darkness at 49 i would think an sk would have plenty of reasons to use it. my sk does

Why? Clinging Darkness does the same thing for 1/3rd the mana.

[Tarathiel]

Why? Clinging Darkness does the same thing for 1/3rd the mana.

true, and in dungeons thats probably all you need, but when soloing or fear kiting, you will want the better snare, clinging barely slows mobs down at all before they are low health

[Slave]

Who is soloing and/or fear kiting at level 15 without decent gear? That's their problem, then. lol

[Tarathiel]

the op suggest's that twink gear isnt a problem so i wouldnt see why not, engulfing darkness isnt untill lvl 22 tho, thats when i started fear kiting/soloing on my sk. up till then i was in oasis mostly those croc's are easy even for non-twinks to fear kite

[stormlord]

between feign death and circlet of shadow i really dont see how this is all that great.

as for ogre vs DE, DE look way cooler and the str/sta difference can be made up with with gear, but yes stun immunity on a tank is pretty vital...
Circlet of shadow allows the SK to cast Gather Shadows (lvl 30 spell) with a 0.1 casting time. This is different from the spell because the spell has a 5 second cast time. They nerfed the Circlet of Shadows (rightly) in late Velious so that the casting time was higher. If this had been the case early on, Hide (the ability) would have had more value at least until lvl 35 since it has a instant "cast time," assuming it's successful. At level 35, all shadowknights are granted access to the hide skill, though. One thing about Hide that's nice is that it has no duration limit, unlike Gather Shadows which will fade after 20 minutes.

Worth mentioning that the cap for Hide is 75 at level 35 for all SK's. The cap for DE's is 50.

Is the Ultravision DE's have worth anything?

Of course they gave a 15% exp penalty to ogres. There's a SK exp penalty too. The wiki says that Ogre SK's have a 61% penalty and DE SK's have a 40% penalty. Not sure how 15% becomes 21%. If -61% exp translates every 100 exp to 39 then this means that DE SK's will get 53.8% more (raw) experience per kill. If the actual penalty for Ogre SK's is -55% (as I would be led to believe) then if every 100 exp is translated to 45 then this means that DE SK's will get 33.3% more (raw) experience per kill (60/45 = 1.333~).

Is a -40% exp penalty equal to 60 exp out of every 100, or 71.4285?

I'd say that if you want to have a viable invisibility before level 30 and you don't have the money (1000-2000p) for Circlet of Shadows then DE is nice. If you can't wait until level 35 to have hide (for its unlimited duration) then DE gives you it. But other than asthetic and exp penalty, it's hard to pick the DE. In all honesty, the DE is a better choice for other classes. Each race tends to have its sweet spot this way.

I'm not positive, but it does seem that the race selection for classes is kind of wacky. The experience penalty is not a good mechanic for balancing, first off. The ideal method to balance is via skills and stats. Experience penalties are a lazy work ethic. Second, why not add more varied differences for fun? Honestly, there're not a lot of differences between the races; not to my liking. It just isn't as interesting. I realize that there needs to be some in-between so that people aren't stuck with their race choice(s). But just have a look at the damage an ogre does and the damage a halfling does. While the Ogre has quite a bit more strength initially, it really doesn't translate to vastly greater damage in combat. Similarly, the shorter size of hte halfling should grant them much greater evasion in combat and sneaking aside, but you barely notice any difference in-game. Big differences might chase players away, but who knows? Developers are so shy about this. I think the predominant reason is that the financiers of the whole project don't want to take any risks; $$$. Thus, we come to the end of the road and we realize that third parties must get involved to innovate the genre.

[ArumTP]

No, they have nothing good going for them for melee stats. Dark elves make fine casters, but are terrible for melee classes. If you want a "small" option, go human.

[stormlord]

No, they have nothing good going for them for melee stats. Dark elves make fine casters, but are terrible for melee classes. If you want a "small" option, go human.
Good point.

Each race has a different class selection available to it. I think that they tried to give the races a wide selection, but they shot themselves in the foot by overstretching and being unable to compensate.

Having said that, don't underestimate the power of the "little things" when a player is making a choice to choose a race/class combination. I myself have picked solely on aesthetic before. To give an example, I think that the halfling is a better ranger than a half elf, but I like how half elves are more.

[Kender]

Good point.

Each race has a different class selection available to it. I think that they tried to give the races a wide selection, but they shot themselves in the foot by overstretching and being unable to compensate.

Having said that, don't underestimate the power of the "little things" when a player is making a choice to choose a race/class combination. I myself have picked solely on aesthetic before. To give an example, I think that the halfling is a better ranger than a half elf, but I like how half elves are more.

except halfling rangers were hunted to extinction. you wont fnd any more on this server.

[Fazlazen]

From best to worse:

Ogre, troll, human, erudite, DE, Iksar.

Iksar are last in kunark because they usually have lower AC than any other SKs.

Iksar post-velious become 2nd, arguably first, but I still think 2nd because of the stun immunity which is just so big when casting that FD!

Coolness factor:

Erudite!

I wish I had rolled an Eru sk :(

[Vellatri]

A Female DE in Velious gear is the best looking plate gear in the game.
Perhaps, but I'd love to get the male helmet instead of the female one!

In my opinion, for looks and "feel," Dark Elf just seems to fit the bill. Everything about a Dark Elf just screams Shadowknight. That's what makes it fun for me.

I'd love to have frontal stun immunity. As a tank, that would be a big help. I do like to craft, though, and the high intelligence lends itself well to that.

Regarding the Darkness line, isn't the best reason to use Clinging the cast time? Clinging is 1.75 and Engulfing is 2.45. That makes it bit easier to land during combat, or to tag a runaway mob. Yes, Engulfing might be best if you're using it to pull something to fear. Clinging is "good enough" in tight places where I can take over snare duty.